New York 180 (Endgame)

[Kitz]

Currently sick, but it won't stop me from being here. Whatsup?

[Kitz]

that's not like you.

Let's use meta to poke a player's sanity, sure.

[Kitz]

I don't like this kitz bastard.

Anyone who sounds like a candy bar cannot be trusted.

Cool, someone fired a shot by calling me a bastard.
I don't want to be associated with the crime of sounding like a candy bar for no reason, let alone by a guy who sound half asleep.

How can we trust a guy that sound half asleep, mhhh~?

[Kitz]

This game's is too polite

If you think it's too polite, why not share a gross horror story to stir things up?

[Kitz]

I think it's very possible T S O forgot this game existed, tbh. It's a very T S O thing to do

When you sign for something, you're not supposed to forget it. It's like signing a promise to have a date with your SO and then you just forget about it.
Oh wait, reality ensues. At this point, is it even worth it to talk about him until he's been prodded? It's like beating a dead horse by now.

[Kitz]

I see too much use of Meta. Just because someone acts towny, doesn't mean they can be. People can adjust and blend in with Meta that others have made.
Soooo I'd like to argue that some are more scummy, not more towny, because Meta fits in too quickly and on a first day.

[Kitz]

then remarks about how many posts there are which is basically his way of stating something while saying nothing.

That seems more like an excuse to avoid prodding in general. It's too "captain obvious", isn't it normal that there's +5 pages after a day? Then there's the lack of general contribution with the cliffhanger "will post after work".

I'm surprised it have not been picked up by more players.

I also find Klingon's post suspicious, for the lack of vote. If it's a Solid Scumread, isn't it worth a vote?

I think I have my first solid scumread...

3 fluffposts, the first is RVS, and in the second he wants to PL TSO for lurking.

[Kitz]

Oh duh, I forgot to vote!

You simply forgot to vote? Hmm. I knew there was something off with your lack of vote. I dunno, but then again you're V/LA for computer issues.

I'm starting to think you are prob town but I'm not totally sure.

Is that just something random to say?

Back as promised .

Great!

I'm going to note the wagon on dragonspawn first. First of all there was an attempt to elicit a reaction on my part which he simply voted on because I reacted, whereas I'm sure if I'd just ignored the whole attempt to elicit a reaction would have been found scummy too in terms of ignoring it. So that became a no-win situation because there would be a reaction of some sort, which I found interesting.

Uhh, what? This is just a mess. As for the one post, he could've written a lot more. One post - ignoring the semi-filler next one, is just not enough.
VOTE: Vikingfan

[Kitz]

though I think it possible that there are two town players scum are trying to go after.

Could you elaborate on this?

[Kitz]

after looking at the most recent votecount (I'm not flipping through all 24 pages at this late hour), nobody's voting for me

vikingfan: acryon, SilverWolf, dragonspawn, Grib, Klingoncelt, House, FA_Q2 [L-4]

Players are voting on you, and you said having recently checked the votes you're not voted on, uhh... That's just ignorance.

WAIT A MINUTE

Not voting: TSO, Wake88, kitz

VOTE: Vikingfan

I did vote.
Just to make sure it's seen by Mod.

VOTE: Vikingfan
VOTE: Vikingfan
VOTE: Vikingfan

[Kitz]

At the time I made my post, I was going off this post for my votecount and I had zero votes and the mod's votecounts are what I use (no, I'm not going to bother going through a game this large to try and track votes myself).

That's the last straw.

You said that you used the Votecount of #297, claiming it's the most Recent. Most recent is #592. That's 295 posts more, and #297 was about in the middle of the game so far.
The offending post is at #598, 6 posts away and on the same page. The post before that one, is literally one before the vote count post, and it was in a timeframe of less than 15 minutes.

This guy isn't paying attention. Flashing colors from vote post. Very short time frame. Not many posts away.
Because of this, it's going to be a forced Policy Lynch regardless of faction now.

[Kitz]

I am your friendly Cop. Once per night, I can investigate someone and find out if they are aligned with the town.

Just curious, how're we able to validate this claim? Just to know it's not a random claim by scum. Unvoting tho. UNVOTE:

Lynching me is a mistake, as we don't need two claims today.

Why do you feel the need to post this? You don't even have a wagon, I just see like two votes. You're getting pressured way quick and easy.
Although, I find it infuriating that majority of your posts are all sheeping and all "we must lynch X". Would Scum highlight themselves this way? I dunno the meta here.

Other than this badplay sheep, the votes received seem rather.. random and forced.

[Kitz]

Does anyone else have little sticky notes for each person In-game in which they write down notes about them?

I usually do it with smaller games, but I'm trying it for the first time on a game of people this size.

Is this a comment to become more revelant to "scum hunting"? Or as a reminder that players can write notes?
Honestly, I feel this post is oddly timed and that it's not really a needed post.

---

Normal games can include 1-2 non-normal roles.

Still though, the rules state that 1-2 non-normal roles can be included in a normal game, so an insane cop remains a possibility.

I am pretty sure Wake told me something about 1-2 non-normal roles being permitted, but it was a while back and he may have used different verbiage and I misunderstood.

By saying that Insane Cop is a possibility, it means that other non-normal roles are a possibility. Do you believe any of the other non-normal roles are in the game, if that's possible?
Food for thought, and just a question of curiousity.

---

I'm just going to voice my opinion loudly. Albert B. Rampage is kinda scummy. Read the ISO, all posts are about voting, getting others to vote, fillers / fluff, base questions.
In short, I'm seeing no contribution, just sheeping and sheepherding. Opinions, guys?

[Kitz]

House, where is your vote right now and why?

You could always check the ISO...

ABR - Scum. I haven't really been noticing ABR, and his ISO is terribad. Naked votes, bad pushes, and posting just enough to avoid prodding.

I'm not the only one with that conclusion then.

@Kitz: I don't see any discrepancies with ABR's play.

fake edit: none of that is particularly atypical for town!ABR.

These don't share that opinion.

[Kitz]

Kitz, what is you town vs. scum meta on ABR?

I'm a bad player to ask when it comes to meta, because I have nooooo idea about any player's meta.

If you had to switch votes, who would you be voting other than ABR and why?

I have not voted on ABR and I'm not voting on anyone yet. Hypothetically if I did, who I would vote on other than ABR? Surprise : Cheetory6. Reason? When he was asked this question from Dragon about FA, he hinted subtly towards me (because I was "playing safe"?) in a fashion that it looked like he threw all others aside. The way I interpret the message is that I'm the second scummiest while he has no other scummy read. What about anyone else? Boon? ABR? Piss? E.T.C?
I may of course be misinterpretting the message, but it's the best I can make out of that post and it would be a good moment to post thoughts and scum reads, which he didn't.

Anyway, I'm going to officially vote on ABR now.
VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

[Kitz]

as being safe?

I didn't say that they were playing safe at all, I moved to a new sentence while on-topic.

[Kitz]

So what are you saying then?

"I'm scummy for "playing safe", while no one else are credited to anything scummy like lurking, bad play and etc. There are easy things to nitpick on, but outside of FA I'm the only one worth a "it's scummy" comment."

- Hope you understand that.

I don't have time for this. I'm the town tracker.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

ASDASD
UNVOTE: [/vote]

[Kitz]

If the claims are true Kitz has got the shittiest towncred.

Yeah, that's true. I'm OK with lynching kitz.

Oooooh shit~

vote Kitz

VOTE: Kitz

VOTE: Kitz

VOTE: Kitz

VOTE: Kitz

vote: Kitz

That makes me L5?
I'm unaffected to this pressure. In fact, the voting is so fast that it's unrealistic and unreasonable.
One of these voters are definitely scum.

However, to make things a bit interesting, I have a confession. Was gonna post this regardlessly anyway.
I actually didn't know what roles are available. The only role I knew was my own, and I was all blind. I tried to look around this thread to see what roles are available, since I'm used to my own site meta that roles available are on the same thread - OP 1st Post. That made me overly neutral and would only open up later when I actually had an idea of stuff.
Thanks to the discussion of Wolf and House tho, I know what roles are around.

[Kitz]

What are you even talking about here?

I can be quite literal.
TLDR : I didn't know the roles, other than the PM I received. That's not a claim to what my role is, I'm just stating the facts. Wolf posted the list of what roles there is.

What a say nothing statement. You could pull 5 names for any reason and say the same thing.

I was quoting so that the post numbers are visible to show how short it's between eachothers, except time. It also works as a vote count, to help.

[Kitz]

Link to this post, because I haven't seen it.

Are you kidding me?

He's sane. It's a normal game.

Roles which are explicitly Normal include:
Vanilla Townie, Sane Cop, Doctor, Vigilante, Roleblocker, Mason, Innocent Child, Jailkeeper, Tracker, Watcher, Gunsmith, Miller, Bodyguard, Role Cop, Doublevoter, Hider, Neighbor, Neighborizer, Jack of All Trades, Serial Killer, Mafia Encryptor, Mafia Strongman, Mafia Goon, Mafia Traitor, Mafia Godfather, Mafia-aligned or SK-aligned versions of above roles

Roles which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Non-Sane Cop, Blank Vig, Non-Sane or Quack Doctor, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Mafia Mason, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector, Framer.

[Kitz]

So you think all of these roles are in this game?

Seriously?

Possible roles. It would be stupid to have every single role exist.
Before, I only knew 1 role.

[Kitz]

However, to make things a bit interesting, I have a confession. Was gonna post this regardlessly anyway.

I'm some sort of oddball / weirdo.

Just pointing this out that I was going to post this thingie regardless of the votes, and the votes makes it an inappropriate time to mention it.
Since I'm being voted, I figured, meh it's inappropriate, may as well just post it anyway and write a bit extra on the small thing I would say since everything's going to be sooooo freaking overanalyzed so I can see who pays attention to the actually more important stuff. At least the fact that I didn't know the roles, is made a fact publically now and visible.

"I didn't know the roles half of the game." ended up with a wall of text and loads of bickering.

Though, you're completely overlooking this actual opinion of mine. No sarcasm.

One of these voters are definitely scum.

---

Kitz, town mentality is Never give up, never surrender.

You can fight this off, if your town self shines through.

I remembered know how annoying it was.

Uhhh what? I'm not giving up, not surrendering. Soooo, what?

I'm unaffected to this pressure.

[Kitz]

Oh ok, I thought you were getting ready to claim.

I claimed that I know my own role, if that helps.
Although that's like if an idiot claimed that he figured out what language is.

[Kitz]

Kitz, are you an alt?

Nope. I'm not an alternative account. I'm unique self. Main / Primary.

Seems like a lot of telling us how calm she is, when she's not.

Well, I'm quite calm and somewhat entertained by the whole voting thing. Not stressed.

hard to believe you didn't look up the setup

I signed for next, got invited to the game with role, and expected the setup to be on OP's first post. Newb mistake, been in two games where the setup was shown.

You've been here for four months

Time goes fast.
It's still just the third game tho. Surprise!
First large game.
No games in a month or two? Uhh, no idea.

You're voicing your opinion softly, and then asking for our opinions before actually following through.

Because possible meta I don't know about that's probably common sense here.

why bring it up now?

I have the ability to talk about absolutely anything at anytime. I'm quite inappropriate for that, because it's so random and out of place that they snap their neck in confusion not helped by my sometimes absolute literal sentences and topic changes.
No one have figured how my mind works yet, and it's probably going to be a bad thing here.

And just another thing. My english is weird.

---

Going to sleep now. Night night. I'm sooo late. Four AM. Probably around by like eight hours.

[Kitz]

Woke up.

Yeah, my lynch is not really going to grant any information. Everyone just jumped on and sheeped.
Other than my total what you see in your point of view as derping, why am I more scum than town? Why am I less town?

As for the argument about wagons going fast even for scum, town wagons should be faster than scum due to scum being reluctant to scum wagons.

Gonna try and wake myself a bit more, having just woken up makes me a bit oddly high. Elusive is town btw for wanting to defend a complete newbie instead of lynching it.

[Kitz]

Hey Kitz, why are you still voting a claimed PR?

Because I derped on my initial unvote.
UNVOTE:

But seriously, with how quick the wagon became, it raises the red flag that at least one or two scums are in it.

[Kitz]

I'm not a total newbie, but I have absolute no idea about the meta of this site.
Realistically, I cannot offer any help until I actually have something I can use. Clues or whatever.

It's pretty unrealistic to learn the Meta of 20 different players who are all different, spread across different games, and some who have multiple styles for both Scum and Town, as well some who are using their own Meta as an advantage when they have other intentions.
Targeting what I think is scummy behavior, but it's actually their normal behavior, everyone will get OCD and target me for not knowing their playstyle.

Give me a break. This means that I have to not focus on this game and I hate Meta overall. This in itself is disadvantagous : I'm forced to "be safe", I have absolutely no idea what I can do to be of help without being snarked back in return, and overall I'm just going to wait for the next day so things actually happen. A day with absolutely nothing can tell absolutely nothing outside of player's behavior, which is a mess when it's all Meta.
Why can't I call out on someone for doing mass one-liners, mass sheeping, bad sheepherding,et cetera?

I assume this is the true reason I'm actually being voted on. Truth to be, I already anticipated this and was planning to write a post about that I'm a newbie, a somewhat introduction to these 20 players, as well pointing out noob things. Too bad the votes happened super-super fast, making it look all inappropriate.

---

That said, I refuse to claim roles. There's too many shitty role claims already which I think most are just there to be a "red herring".
To make this post a bit more useful than being just a calling-out rant, I'm going to say who I'm currently having reads as.
Scum : NakedJogger, Aeronaut, Boonskiies, Grib, ABR.
Town : Elusive, Silverwolf, Shinobi, T S O.
All Else : Half-scum/half-town, neutral or whatever.

If I feel for it, I can get a list of their posts what I disagree with. The problem? You're probably going to nitpick things with Meta, I'm in general bad at pushing, and I dare say that other players who find these scummy stuff can be more "trusted" due to not being a newbie which lowers my motivation to do so. I'm a bit annoyed that some things I pointed out are completely ignored.

More at 10 on DramaTv.

[Kitz]

Good luck, town!

But I like you. Please don't leave.

Everyone voting ABR, he's claimed tracker so are you stating that he's fake claiming or what?

1. Someone claimed a role before him.
2. He claims without pressure.
3. His claim is also a part of "Don't have time for this".
4. The claim is completely unecessary.
5. The tone of the claim overall just seems sarcastic in a way.
6. It's day one, making it even more unecessary.
From what I see, he might as well just claim a different role or say that it's not his role after all. A gambit to get us to shut up about ABR?
I don't like his play and his behavior. It's pretty anti-town in the point of view I have.

---

On an unrelated note, I'm pondering if I should move my vote over on NJ now.

[Kitz]

Moving my vote on to Naked jogger. Was planning on it, thought a bit about it, and now deciding to do it.
VOTE: Naked jogger

[Kitz]

Her play was ... strange all along, it was this post that finally did it for me:

That latter part would be there regardless of being voted, as I have repetitively mentioned.
As for the unrealistic votes, I didn't see pressure or lynch votes, but basically a wagon that I couldn't read and it came from nowhere. Many votes are naked, there's no questions directed to me, there was a lack of reason and there were scummier players around.
What's the point of being pressured by such an obnoxious speed wagon?

I still remain with my bold claim that at least one or two of the voters are Scum due the nature and speed of that wagon.

[Kitz]

I'd like to know the reason why I would be a scum buddy to Viking if he's scum, MathBlade.

[Kitz]

Mainly this votal here.

Looking blank at a vote count might give wrong impressions if you're not reading the posts that involve with the votes.
Looking on the order of votes as well might be confusing, since you wouldn't know when the players are available at the time. Some late voters may result by not being around earlier.

[Kitz]

I have absolutely no idea freaking how to read Math. If it's a good player, this is a massive wifom / gambit pileup.
At first I kept thinking, maybe it's a jester / fool, but now I'm like, wtf am I supposed to think?

Maybe it's to check the reaction of players to see who has the expected reaction, giving a town / scum read based out of that.
Maybe it's a subtle scenario to get scum to vote in a fashion that they are gaining town cred.

Oh wait. I get it.
It's possible it's a role that kills all visitors. Provoke everyone.
... I don't even think it's that.

[Kitz]

She can't kill visitors if she gets lynched.

That's why you provoke a mob to visit.

[Kitz]

NakedJogger, you should stop this "Tunneling". Ignoring parts of posts, nitpicking by splitting stuff and your excuse to lynch me is shit.
The excuse you got is, that because I have voted a lot of "Town", it makes me Scum.

Hypocrite? Day 1, no one is proven to be town, and there's a lot of others who have voted a lot of different "Town".
This logic overall makes you more scummy.

[Kitz]

If town were to play like you did then it would be pretty hard yes. But town provide reasons to vote, they investigate alignment indicative issues and don't fall into AtE and excuses when pressured. You are the best lynch for today, no need to take it personal. If you are town you now know what where you should improve.

The reason these players are "Town" is because of the Meta that all others use that I don't even have a clue about. ABR's bad play and behavior is normal, thus towny?
That makes me Scummy for voting Town, because apparently my reason is completely unjust, defies logical sense, does not satisfy players, et cetera.

You're being quite the antagonist towards me.

[Kitz]

I'm debating to myself between the two of NJ and Kling.
One is a forced, scummy pusher with little basis, and the other is doing so many slips that it hurts and gives a brain hemmorage.

Kling claimed VT, forgot about it and isn't reading the game properly. This hints that the player is not dedicated to the game and probably bored, which may hint that if the VT claim is legitimate, the player just doesn't have any motivation to play due to a lackluster role to their perceptive which may result in amnesia symtoms of "meh". That behavior might change once they have of course gained any sort of clue, or natural progression of the game. This behavior as a whole is anti-game which I do not support, but it puts out a scenario of uselessness that Scum wouldn't kill that person andf PR are willing to confirm this player, that's one somewhat useless player confirmed and we wouldn't have much material to go on with.

The pro / con to this makes Kling more of a policy lynch. Honestly prefer to see NJ go, but Kling's case is messy.

---

However, this leads me into Fluffy Questions for Town (Scum Plz Do Not Answer So We Know Who U R, xo)
1. Which do you like being more? Town or scum?
2. What is your favoritest color for flowers?
3. Are you scum?
4. If you could turn into an animal, what would it be?
5. What are your favorite scum hunting strategies and how do they work?

Oh and bonus question for like the Truly Amazing:

Who is the most dangerous player (for either alignment) in this game's player list and why?

Whoa dude, what meds do you use? Gonna answer just because.

1. Scum, 2. Persian Blue Color. 3. Nope. 4. White arctic fox. 5. Using information already present against the one who provided it, checking if it's legitimate and if I can make the other player feel stupid. 6. Most dangerous player to the game? Hmm... ABR, Viking, and Kling, are tied to "game destroying" list.

[Kitz]

Some people like VT, kitz...

That's why I said this.

to their perceptive

Which means it's exclusive to their own taste.

[Kitz]

I quit.

That's why you

preview

messages first... Otherwise you'd look high in some situations.

[Kitz]

Actually dragon, Ellie responded first. So again what is going on with your selective reading?

If he rushed in to read on the most recent page (62), he would just see mine.
I assume that's what he did, looking at posts and their quotes but not prior. (Is that his meta?)

[Kitz]

The point on NJ voting because someone else "voted town" is actually kind of okay but that's about it.

That someone else would be me, and that's why I got tunneled stupidily by NJ.

[Kitz]

She was on both the Kitz wagon where I am sure there is scum for the speed and lack of reasoning as well as the viking wagon.

Oh god, someone with logical sense. It hurts. But really, the speed and lack of reasoning... There's definitively scum among there.

---

NJ is even more scummy for trying to avert two wagons into someone currently irrelevant, attempting to halt the votes so there won't be a lynch, or a last-ditch effort to gain towncred, when there's less than six hours left of the day.
My vote stays.

[Kitz]

VOTE: Klingon

Lights out bitchees.

The nature of this post is very scummy. Just disappear, and then return to hammer Klingon when it started to look like the votes would start to fully shift over to NJ.
No contribution, just a blank, snarky hammer.

[Kitz]

Sooo... Anyone got something they want to get out and say before the game closes?
Y'know, before you're picked out on the kill lottery for the night.

I wonder who'll become the winner of that said lottery.
Now that the first day is almost, almost over, I'd like to point out that the discussions and votes has taken place. What does this mean? It means that the cards are on the table.
Player interaction, by discussion and voting, should show who they are buddying, bussing, avoiding, critiquing and complimenting. A distinct pattern.

Just something to say, since this Day 1 is fucked up. Too many claims, everyone's being scummy including myself, there's almost no neutrals of between town-scum, and there's those who's seen as blank towns.

[Kitz]

Kanye

Explain like I'm five. What the heck is a Kanye?

[Kitz]

Not clicking suspicious links. Kinda epileptic.

[Kitz]

This thread has succceesssffuully removed

logic

.

[Kitz]

1. Someone claimed a Cop.
2. Someone claimed a Tracker.
3. There's probably (now confirmed) Doctor in the setup.

This means that the Tracker should've seen the Cop to see who's a framer, roleblocker, doctor or whatever. Logical sense to do so.
Yet this happens : Cop claims roleblocked and protected.

Coincidentally, the Cop is roleblocked as the Doctor is killed.

I do not believe the Cop Claim, and the Tracker claim was retracted and formed into VT.
However : If it's that the Cop claim is true, then it means the Mafia is playing irrationally or risky.

That's the thing that bothers me right now. Why would the Mafia be irrational and risky?
The Boonski murder was also out of place. I do not see breadcrumbing of his role, and he was acting obnoxious enough to be a scapegoat, not a free kill.

Thereby,

I propose the suggestion of that our suspects are Experienced Players who know another player's Meta

, using it in cross referrence to themselves to deduce who's a PR and not.
Possibility : they figured ABR wasn't a Tracker and that Boon was a Doctor.

[Kitz]

^ That's quite a stretch to kill.
Someone would have to know how to read him. In context of the situation, it was quite sarcastically and now ironic.

[Kitz]

TSO, what's your read on Shinobi? Casually asking.

[Kitz]

I'll take a bite and say

I scumread these as a team

: ABR, NakedJogger, Shinobi.

[Kitz]

Why Shinobi? And would that be a team with pisskop or a second team?

These three have lacking interactivity with eachothers, and the pokes are all similar to the certain players they have picked out which may referrence some sort of subtle understanding. I'm not sure I can place them in a team with Piss, though there's a lack of interactivity with him, he himself quotes a lot.
That said, I'm having a current solid read for the moment.

Easiest thing to see would be the cross refference between the player's reads, there's a weird lack between these three.
Also reading the ISO's, it makes me believe Elusive, Grib and Acryon* may be town.

Did a lot of Ctrl+F searching tho.

[Kitz]

NJ, explain your behavior. Why did you just hammer like that? There was an intend of hammer. You could also have done an "intend".
Why did you keep dodging the questioning and disappeared?

[Kitz]

Put a fork in it Kitz and tell me why any of what I did was scummy or stfu.

If someone else did that, you'd tell them it was scummy? Curious question.

[Kitz]

her grammar is weird

Thank you. Better than bad. Some say it's good though, which I find funny.
I dropped out of school super early, so I taught myself english. Being in a non-english country, that's somewhat difficult.

but I'm p sure iirc she's based hers around pisskop who has indeed flipped Scum y/y?

You're saying I'm adjusting my grammar to someone else? And that someone else would be a scum mate? Nope.
This is a "what?" thing.

That is quite a stretch, trying to associate someone based on their grammar.

[Kitz]

Reading about Piss, found something a bit odd in my PoV.
Just saying this, Piss seemed to sidesway NJ. NJ don't have much towards Piss on D1, always takes the second alternative. I'm putting this out, food for thought.

As far as I can tell,

NJ is playing like a frustrated townie

. If my vote went anywhere it would be Ellie

On the townier side

, I think Acryon recent posts are good,

NJ is hunting

, and TSO has a town-mindset.

NJ wagon is driven off of

hurt feelings

I'd vote Ellie

before

NJ.

[Kitz]

I've also got a bone to pick with Kitz but I accept the fact that I could be biased in that regard. I don't know where her townread on me from earlier came from and it seems like her scumread is based on me not talking to other people, so I don't really know how that could affect her read. Hrm.

The flips changed the point of view with the definitive Scum, and the read changed over the course of the day one.
You seemed subtly ignorant on the environment of what occured to NJ, almost like non-care or sidesway.
Later on mentions prefer NJ lynch, but can do someone else, thus a second alternative.
Then suddenly mention that NJ could be scummy and worth an investigation, but never voting.

I also note the odd rivalry between you and TSO, subtly making the "they ain't same faction" scenario.
The lack of Piss interaction (tho I did ctrl+f searching).
Also a subtle defending of ABR overall with an odd use of Meta.
I also note the reserved no-votes.

ABR is all super-easy on "Shin is town". Lack of interactivity.
NJ also has nothing at all on Shin. Lack of interactivity.

Maybe I just see patterns that others don't see...

---

Boonskiies - Town Non-consecutive Doctor was killed

From what I get, Non-Consecutive means every 2nd day, right?

What I don't get is this. When is it active? Is it every odd day, or is it every even day?
The main question is, can the Non-Consecutive work out a Night 1 action?

Elaborate? ❤

I'm around for another 10min before I rush off.

[Kitz]

So, after having disappeared for a tiny while and return to read.

What The Fuck Did I Just Read?

It's like a bunch of kids bickering way to dawn for not being Player 1 in that nintendo game.

Multiple players have gone through the process of BSOD in their brains. Cool.

I also notice that I've been quite transparrent. Nothing in referrence to me or anything, even though I did a shotgun blast at the recent scumhunt.

I'm also mindfucked enough to write like this.

NJ's even more scummy for it's lack of contribution and lack of care about the blames.

Shin's scummier too.

ABR's just being weird at the moment spite being scummy. Yo dewd, you like to argue.

Morning's even more visible. ALL DAT CAPZ

Okay.

So.

Why all that bickering with the Setup, not about the actual setup, but the freaking Lottery Chance about it? When I hosted stuff on TvT, I just use RandomOrg or something and randomize roles, before balancing it. I assume the hosts do that here too, so Statistically I don't think that's a thing to argue about. Then again I have little clue about hosting setups in MF, but man, is that really that argue worthy about Chance? It's like the Blue Scratchcard has a higher chance to win than the Red Scratchcard...

My opinion about VK Lynch :
1. The only thing it confirms for us is that there's 3 killers in the setup.
2. Although it might reveal scum mates, everyone's crazy and weird here. Even normal town may be reluctant, so would it actually tell much at this point?
3. Food for thought. What if he's immune and used that as a bullshit excuse to get away?
4. Another food for thought. What if he's part of a 2nd team and the first one is against him?
5. Why are no one giving him a last chance? The RB is dead, and if he's Cop Scum would kill him anyway. A mislynch would just waste our time if 5 is the case.
6. Because of 5, I think there's better targets, who can actually give information by a lynch.

Have fun with your new conspiracy theories. 5 holds the greatest weight, and we can lynch him the next day anyway if he fails all.

Another thing : Why is it under the radar that ABR retracted his Tracker claim? He claimed Tracker out of the freaking blue because he didn't have time to deal with the BS he said, and then later he retract by saying that he read it's a different role PM.
If that's true, he have Sinned. Not discussing more of that Sinned thing, but let's see... He retracts? Are you really letting that go under the radar? You should take your time to read the Role PM, and if you're going to claim a role then you're going to make sure it's your role before you end up getting counterclaimed by an actual tracker and then lynched. This is extremely anti-town behavior, inconsiderate, and risked revealing even more PR.
Would an Experienced Player do this? From what I see, he's from 2007. That's more than enough time to avoid any of this.
VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

[Kitz]

What's your opinion about my argument for why I vote?

[Kitz]

Here we go again, setup discussion...

As for the "doctor slip" thingie, it's not that hard to figure out after a flip. Just go on ISO, CTRL+F and then "Doctor".

[Kitz]

Could it have been a Freudian slip? Imagine this: At night, a player is reading the thread looking for who to nk. That player finds some profoundly awesome piece of evidence that somehow slipped under everyone's radar. The next day, when the person who was nk'd was revealed to be something awesome (like Boon's doctor PR), everyone is kinda getting ready to move on, but the player who found the evidence gets a little egotistical. They want people to realize how cool they are for discovering this awesome, barely noticeable piece of evidence, so they make the error of pointing it out. It's as if they were to say, "Man that NK was a great job on the scum team, they must be pretty damn smart! I bet they're awesome players!" And then just sits there and smiles as they stroke their own ego.

I'd point out the slip of Boon if it wasn't already pointed out. It's a basic case of ISO + CTRL+F and then search "Doctor" which is his role, after the confirmed flip.
That's something anyone should be able to do.

The issue and the question would be, who would see the slip pre-flip?
I think this is what's suspicious to slip under the radar. Instead of thinking of this possibility as to how she found it, everyone instead thinks it's a slip about NK target.

I'd like to take a little more attention towards those who let this slip under the radar too easy.
Using reverse psychology, I might also note suspicion towards those that agree with those giving the blame. (subtle buddying)

Seriously, how hard is it to use the brain to think "Oh, he flipped Doctor. I wonder if he slipped somewhere claiming Doctor?"

---

Why do I see continued patterns of voting the same players while saying that the scummy targets should be pressured, but not voting them?
Scummy or not, it just repeats. And repeats. Almost like it's your goal to lynch that player.

My opinion, NJ or ABR should be lynched.
NJ has clear reasons as to why NJ should be lynched, and would give a very wast amount of information if Scum.
ABR is currently Obv!Scum due to his mistakes. One thing? Sure. Two? Maybe. A hundred different reasons and fails on one thing while being experienced?

NO

I refuse to vote Viking for this reason : If he's Town, he'll die in the night. If he Survive, he can give a valuable clue before flipping Scum / Town. If Town and he finds Scum, that claim is confirmed. If he's Scum, WIFOM on why that target is innocent. Nevertheless, if he's Town, wasting a lynch on him when he dies anyway... Scum with their rights would just kill him in the night.
Oh and we're going to lynch him anyway if he survives (knowing everyone so far...), but at least we're getting an additional clue to the game.

---

Curious questions :
1. Do you believe that TSO and Shinobi is both Town? If so, why are

both

Town?
2. What makes Ellie the "biggest Scum" over the other targets?
3. What do you think of the theory that the Scum is trying to focus on other things to avoid attention to themselves in the way it influences all else to ignore them and focus on the things the Scum is leading to?
4. What makes Aeronaut, Shinobi and Cheetory Town?
5. If you had a gun, who'd you shoot during night?

[Kitz]

What. The. Fuck.

Are you sure that ABR isn't a jester / fool or whatever?
At this point he just threw the game in all sense of directions.

[Kitz]

Let's lynch ABR today, Vigi shoot NJ tonight, and then lynch VK the day after.

[Kitz]

Oooooor we could ignore them, lynch someone else or NL, and if there's two scum factions then they will just kill the two cop claimers anyway.

[Kitz]

If I had a gun to use, I'd kill ABR. He's far more scummy than NJ now. Fuck. He killed that very, very small towny piece.
The very small possibility it's a real claim. Nope, this is too far, too much.

My vote stays.

[Kitz]

OMG let's hypoclaim :p

I claim Mindfucked.

I feel like we should just end this fucked up day before it goes completely overboard with mindfuckery.

[Kitz]

Let's stop with the dicking-around and go back to the serious style of game. I want you guys to start focusing on the game like proper adults.
Thank you.

[Kitz]

What the fuck happened that there are twelve new pages.

TLDR : Dick. Dick. Dick. ABR retracted and claimed Cop investigating Town Shinobi.

[Kitz]

Because I trust ABR more than vikingfan right now.

Why?

[Kitz]

Let's post our reads of every single player? That's actually contribution, unlike what's happening.

[Kitz]

After she continued to read, she realised that there were no hope. All of the players were indoctrinated by the absolute form of Stupidity. Attempting to salvage a cure to Stupidity, she tried to use Logic. It didn't work, so she tried to tell them to mature up. After a while, she just gives up, lurks in the corner, takes out a random gun and shoots at herself.

- Kitz

[Kitz]

But seriously, kitz, vote for viking. He is scum, after all.

Tell you what, here's a serious deal. You convince me to actually believe you, then I'll vote him.
Go. Convince me.

[Kitz]

I still think vf is lying scum and needs rope, and I think it's possible -- in fact probable -- that ABR really is cop.

Would a cop really bullshit this much in general?

[Kitz]

Okay, Kitz. I know that I lied a lot.

1. I pointed to an example a few games ago where I lied as a neighbour to take the NK and allow the cop I neibhorized one more investigation.

2. I do my best for the town, but I lie to the scum inside the town. The town being lied to is collateral damage.

3. Now I had a good reason to lie in that game.

4. In this game, I lied to keep myself alive long enough for at least 1 investigation.

5. Vf claimed a doc protect which is way too rare and sounds like he made something up on the fly after seeing the flips.

6. Viking also barely cares about the game and is just going through the motions.

7. I know that he's scum. I came out because I was too stressed at seeing town unwilling to lynch him. Couldn't handle it.

8. Ignore good morning, she's an unwashed lettuce. No sweetness at all.

Edited the quote to include numbering.

1. What's neibhorized? Anyway, that's a different game. It does currently not say anything about the current game.
2. Your lies are extremely loud. You're more likely to be lynched.
3. In that game. Not this.
4. Nope. At best, you'd be killed. Tracker's more powerful than Cop if there's an interesting obvious target.
5. RNG. We don't know for sure.
6. That fits for a quarter of the players here.
7. Why didn't you just simply counterclaim directly, if you're the risky kind of player? Not to mention, What If there's 2 cops? You could've checked him to confirm. Iunno
8. Opinionable.



I'm curious. Make a full read on TSO, Aeronaut and NobodySpecial.

[Kitz]

Oh Kitz, give me something to do...

Sure.

I'm curious. Make a full read on TSO, Aeronaut and NobodySpecial.

[Kitz]

Why those three in particular?

I notice a weird pattern and since I'm white noise I'm just letting others figure it out.

[Kitz]

Tbh it probably makes the most sense to let the scum decide which of ABR and VF is the real cop.

It would be funny if two opposing scum teams each killed one each.

[Kitz]

To be fair, it's not confirmed until either of you flip.

[Kitz]

Continue. It will be revealed postgame what happened. For now act as if nothing happened.

Are the dead allowed to know?

[Kitz]

ABR no longer feels like Scum Mafia.
Which makes me extremely certain that he could instead be a Gambit Serial Killer.

NJ is still feeling like a Scum Mafia. Wake also did the same thing NJ did at the end of D1.
Is that a new mafia gambit of "My mate did it, so I do it too to make it seem more normal"? Let's call that Mimic Gambit.

Also I'm towny as fuck now.

---

And I'm taking kitz off of my townlean list for her #2402.

Not gonna try and sound omgus-y in feel, but that sorta makes you scum. I wrote an actual valid reason why you shouldn't lynch VK, and I wrote more about why ABR is a trainwreck that can't be trusted.
You give me the impression you're the kind of player that reads, but this gave me the impression you just skipped over many parts and saw only the stereotypical "defending viking, no more town".
No actual reason as to why you took off the townlean, just stating that you did, which leaves you room for explanation, which can be thought of in time. Scummy.

---

I'm voting ABR not because of his fuckup gambit and series of lies, but because he just commited totally the most anti-town thing ever.
If he truly were a cop, and he messed and fucked up this bad, and knew Town would tunnel vision him, wouldn't it be logical to reveal who he targeted and their status?

He didn't do that, and instead just repeats "Sorry".
VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

[Kitz]

And I'm really disappointed in the Vigi not shooting NJ or ABR.
Almost makes me think that there's no Vigi.

[Kitz]

@Kitz, you realize that Shinobi is basically the closest thing we have to confirmed town right now, right?

Hm, how so? Legit question. If it's meta bullshit, ain't listening.

[Kitz]

Or wait am I just stupid?

Wasn't he roleblocked?

[Kitz]

Shinobi's still probably town because I don't think ABR would fake-investigate him if he was his scummate.

That's why I suspect ABR of being SK. His moves in general just don't seem team-indicating, more solo.

[Kitz]

Why would ABR suicide as SK?

I have no idea. At least he don't throw a whole faction, so being all alone, he can gambit the fuck out as he wishes.

[Kitz]

And if you're going to name up Meta, here's a lesson : Wolf. Wolf. Wolf.
Cry wolf too much, and none will believe it anymore.

At one point he'll just use his own meta as a gimmick of gameplay. He listed a bunch of his own games, trying to fuel this. Soooooo fuck meta.

[Kitz]

@Kitz: You're incredibly Town. Never change.

Kitz is off limits.

I want to kill Kitz.

One of these ain't like the other.
Altho I feel a third quarter the game is passive-aggressive towards me, another third quarter the game is buddying me, and the last just not knowledging me.
Divided fanbase much?

---

@NJ; Can you actually contribute and stop being scummy?
@MethBlade; Can you post full reads so we can take you more seriously?
@Elusive; #2965, #3011

[Kitz]

Well, Jesters are explicitly non-Normal and therefore not allowed, but a Reviver would be allowed.

That'd be really fucking OP in this setup. Mod-confirmed players during death, nah... Reviver is just too OP. Beside, they're auto-shot anyway by scum.

[Kitz]

Allowed =/= totally in this game, guys, srsly

Well to be fair, it was brought up. If it can't be here, then don't bring it up.

[Kitz]

Anyway, lynch me if you have to. I tracked Mathblade to Ellie last night.

So you retract Cop and go back to a Tracker?

[Kitz]

MethBlade, you take his claim rather serious spite him being a cynical at this point with the 100s of random lies.
I'd just shrug it off.

[Kitz]

not a single person had a scum read on me. NOT A ONE

U w0t m8

[Kitz]

So what's the vote count so far? Lazy atm.

[Kitz]

NJ is lynchbait, don't believe it.

So says the lynchbait.

[Kitz]

L2 then.

[Kitz]

I reserve the right to hammer the liar.

Is this an Intend To Hammer, or a OMFG QUICKLYNCH?

[Kitz]

It's amusing that you let Mathblade dictate to you her alignment.

Nope.

[Kitz]

As soon as I flip, you're getting vigged. You know that, right?

Answer me honestly. If there's a Vigi, why didn't it shoot you or NJ?

[Kitz]

Mathblade is a bulletproof SK.

So that's why the bullet wouldn't work?
Oh wait, why would even MethBlade be attacked instead of you or NJ?

I'm going to start ignoring you.

[Kitz]

UNVOTE:

I'm giving the players the right to speak before being prematurely interupted like before.

[Kitz]

I don't always screw over the town, but when I do, I at least catch one scum doing it.

Including yourself? If so, then it works.

[Kitz]

REMEMBER: Mathblade + kitz + good morning = scum.

I still fail to see how MethBlade and Good Morning is associated with me. Morning seems to buddy me but I don't in return, and MethBlade just in general trolls.
If you're feeling like derping out, feel free to make a full read on me.

The reason I unvoted anyway is so everyone can share the reads they want to share, and discuss for a longer time.

[Kitz]

Scum already know who to shoot tho

Hypothetical question :

ABR is lynched.
Who's next?

[Kitz]

Ill give you time to get your lists. In fact the more interaction the better

plz m8

The unvote already happened.

[Kitz]

Really?

... Focus on someone else than MethBlade.

[Kitz]

Kitz I'm MathBlade not MethBlade.

I don't see a calculative person.
I see a person high on meth.

Figured MethBlade was more appropriate to your play.

---

ABR and MethBlade are white noise at this point. Shall we ignore them fully, keep the vote on ABR and discuss things before going for a hammer?

[Kitz]

I'm going to sleep now, but I'll put the vote back.

VOTE: ABR

Happy discussion.

[Kitz]

I'm thinking ABR is lying about tracking her to Ellie. He lied about being Cop, too, and cost us our Cop.

Why are you even bothering with this? He's a lost cause at this point. Lied about Tracker->VT (due reading a different PM)->Cop->Tracker.

---

@Vengeful; Why is this even a legit strategy? If I had a goal to be lynched, I'd make an obnoxious but subtle slip or something to get attention, instead of requesting repetitively for several days to get lynched. The very idea of this is neutralized due to the better lynch ABR. Tell me exactly why this is a legit strategy, other than getting a shot by a Vigi?

[Kitz]

is what I think then

There's something odd about this.
Altho I agree, get ABR down. Town or Scum, he's well beyond the point of being extremely toxic to the game.

[Kitz]

This game is giving me OCD.
At this point, let's mass claim Doctor. It's completely logical for this setup to have 8-14 doctors.
/S

[Kitz]

I'm just going to say it loudly with this statement : I won't change my vote from ABR to MethBlade. The vote remains happy on ABR.

[Kitz]

I think this site needs a Permission system for threads so alts don't mix in randomly.

[Kitz]

Totally ADHD.

More like DID.

Let's say ABR is taking care of by the Vig intermittently. WOULD you vote NakedJogger? Yes or no? Why or why not?

The answer is Yes, and for tons of reasons already previously mentioned.
However, I would not swap my vote mainly due to the fact that Vigi did not act that night, making it more clear that

mmmaaaaybe

there's no Vigi at all.

[Kitz]

No, I know what ADHD is and how a lot of people have misconceptions on what it is, people with it can be unfocused but also hyperfocused to an intense degree. I'm not sure what DID is.

DID is Disociative Identity Disorder, which means multiple versions of yourself while being yourself / different personalities.
It's quite different from Multiple Personalities Disorder, which is more of different persons than personality.
DID = Scummy Jack, Towny Jack, Neutral Jack, OR; Party Jack, Worker Jack, Dad Jack.
MPD = Jack, Bob, Mary.

So yeah, I see alt-mixing as DID. Those with that, can randomly slip into a different "style".

[Picture of

The More You Know

]

The problem with the Boy Who Cried Wolf is that when's right no one believes him.

He cried Wolf to make all scared, for a beneficial reason.
The first problem was that he was right when no one believed him.
The other problem is that no one would believe him anymore due to the continued lies, making them no longer scared. That's an extention of the First Problem.

[Kitz]

just get a fucking lynch I'm sick of this game

I'm tired of this spectactle of ABR and MethBlade, not of the game.

[Kitz]

I'll self-hammer if needed. I feel like the game going on and on and growing in pages is antitown.

Why don't you vote yourself and live on the edge of L1? Maybe you can antagonize that player who hammer.

[Kitz]

I thought the only point of not hammering was so that everyone could post reads?

^

[Kitz]

ABR was town tracker

Mathblade was killed, she was a vengeful townie

ABR was totally against his win condition and the rule on intend to win by his behavior, and probably blacklisted by many now.
He lied about being a Tracker, who claimed under absolute no pressure, used this claim as a counterclaim against the Cop, then said sorry after reading that he was VT because the Tracker was the Role PM for another game (which in itself is a rule breaking) but it was a lie of course, then he went to claiming a Cop, then Tracker.
He directly lied about the clue information of one town, and I would not be surprised he did that to the other one as well.
We should however just ignore him and not make more comments, and perhaps let the Mod take care of it while we continue this tragic game.

Same goes for MathBlade who shouldn't have been lynched at all but insisted on, just because of the role.
The role that when lynched, a player of choice is killed. So first we sacrifice a town, just to kill someone else. What if MB picked someone town?
Too fucking risky and 2 town for no scum is just the worst, if she killed a Town outside of ABR, we'd have to lynch ABR anyway for the lie he did, loosing 3 town and of course another one the following night.

How I feel about that:

Spoiler:

I'll return to my initial vote outside of ABR / MB influence.
VOTE: NJ

[Kitz]

Not happy about being lied to by Town, and losing Cop, Backup Cop, Vengeful, and Tracker.

The game's been ruined for me a bit because of the terrible plays that happened so far.

Ika, I'd like to replace out, please.

I agree, it's awful. However, you shouldn't give up hope, we have now dealt with the gamethrowers and are back to the blank slate.
We can return to the game, just with less PR. Join us Wake, you were supposed to commit to the game but you were only remaining absent.

---

Looks like people regardless of faction wanted Math out of this game asap, including 2 out of vig/SK/werewolf. Funny shit right thurr.

Hmm. You're saying all the killers went on Math?
Curious questions; What if there's just one killer now? The two recent nights lacked kills, as there was just One each.
If there's Vigi, can't it shoot the first night, and if so would it only have one bullet?
What if one of the killers are roleblocked?
What if there's a JOAT?

Getting the accurate answers may tell us of the kill count.

---

That's great and all, but what do you think of TSO right now?

Based on interaction, I think he's either independent or teamed with someone he shown odd rivalry to*. Could be a neutral. Not less scummy than NJ.

---

#GM : Can you make a Pro/Con list of Dragon?

[Kitz]

Not

less scummy

Fix'd

[Kitz]

What interactions make you feel this way?

If you pay attention, you'll see a psuedo rivalry, cases of ignorance depending on who's appropriate of answering, buddying, etc.
So based on that rivalry, could be a team mate, or they could be different factions.
Based on all else, it's playing both the devils and the good side, giving more of a neutral flavour.

However, I'm calling out on TSO for this current statement.

I notice I have no scumreads. I need to get some.

Why do you need to state this?
Why are previous scum reads no longer scum reads?
Why are none a scumread?
Why are you not doing an effort?

[Kitz]

Did you read 3683?

Yes. Unfortunately my lack of meta may give of a biased judgement and might be context related, which the numbers of the posts in quote are lacking.
There's three things I'm seeing : He's is used to the player and the player was not like expected, ABR blatantly gamethrew both the game and his win condition. He could be an investigative and wanted to be loud-subtle about it. Or it could be other things.

The issue I'm seeing is that ABR flipped Town, so associating by flips is hard. Even harder when a legit gamethrew occured.

Can you point out a specific example of this? I'm having a hard time following what you're trying to say here.

First clue, I'm suspicious of the interaction between TSO and Shinobi.

[Kitz]

Kitz is annoying me again.

<3 you too.

[Kitz]

Can you link your original reasoning for NJ?

Do I have to? I think everyone knows by now, and it's not actually an original reason but quite a few reasons.
If you don't know any reasons why NJ is scummy, then you're kinda off.

[Kitz]

naked jogger, town citizen has been modkilled and turned neutral survivor

town citizen

WAT DAH FJUUUUUUUUUK

/cutwrist

Meh.
Poking "Nobody Special", "Shinoby", "T S O" and "Aeronaut".

#Mod : Can we get a role reroll due to the nature of this game?

[Kitz]

I've been thinking and got a theory.
What if the two missing kills are from immune-attacking eachothers? One kills, one hits immune. Repeated following night.

Let's say... A SK+GF setup. Would that mean that they know eachothers for having hit eachothers?
If that's the case, I'd like to engineer with current FoS and Scumreads to see informative counters and subtle omgus.

An unrelated theory that's sad, I think we lost all our PR.

And on an unrelated note, I'm kinda unmotivated and meh-ish. Betrayed by town, trolled by town, conned by town, and et cetera.

[Kitz]

Do you mean that you think there's an SK immune player in this game still? Why would GF be immune?

With all these PR, I'm guessing he's vulnerable to investigation, and probably let his lackies attack for him.

After reviewing the setup of current dead players, I really fail to see that there's a vigilante.
If there's two mafia, that'd be too overpowered. Seeing the player interaction, I actually don't see two opposite team factions, so it should just be 1 organised faction.

So perhaps a 4-5M and 1NK versus town?

[Kitz]

I think with only one kill the past two nights, that there was a missed kill for some reason both times considering there were 3 attempts N1.

Damnit. I see it now, thanks. Well, my theory of GF+SK stands but there's a last Town PR by this information :

1. Three attacks.
2. Healed, two deaths.
3. Single attack two nights.
= Visited a visit-killer. That's possible, right?

Neither ABR, NJ, MB, etc, has been attacked and they're town. A Vigilante should have attacked. No one flipped that yet.

[Kitz]

Yeah I'm confirmed town because I crumbed pretty hard

I wouldn't say Confirmed.

[Kitz]

What is your take on Aeronaut\TSO?

I do not have a proper read on them. At this point it's just biased gut feeling because of how the game went.

Also, now that you're back.

I'm lurking.

And on an unrelated note, I'm kinda unmotivated and meh-ish. Betrayed by town, trolled by town, conned by town, and et cetera.

[Kitz]

diclaimer: i was not drunk at the time of making that vc just really tired

Why not a preset spreadsheet or excel, add the names and then copypaste from that?
Would almost be automatic.

[Kitz]

Because of how everyone are confused, I have an idea.

About the votes, who are the most reluctant to vote the Town? Who would rather not lynch?
Let's say A & B knows eachothers, so they would not lynch eachothers, but C is an easy lynch target for not being with them while C could vote them both.
So we need to find the A & B point.

The thing we need is a subtle Informative between Scum.

[Kitz]

Somewhat "intend to hammer". If all agrees to lynch but lacks a last vote and the rest doesn't vote, then sure, hammer.
For now, let everyone talk.

We have like a whole week, aye? But it'll be stupid to waste that week with absolutely no needed or constructive discussion.

[Kitz]

I even ISO'd Kitz and looked a little, and Kitz, if you really feel so 'meh-ish', why not replace out, or just try to move past the bullshit that had been stinking up the last few days and try to reap some good information like the rest of us?

I'll just wait. I'm sure half the other players are also "meh-ish".
It's because of the whole spectacle of those game throwers and every read you did are thrown into the fucking trash bin.

I have issues sorting newer players attacking me sometimes since it's hard for me to tell if them being wrong is a matter of newness or scumness.

Does this hint that you're a confirmed town? You're not.
You're doing the whole "She's a newbie, or she's scum" thing, while completely blocking out the possibility of scum.

That is duly noted to alignment read.

UTR

"Hmm. Mhm. What does this mean?"

PEDIT :

Lynch me

or him.

I don't care at this point

. Just lynch him tomorrow.

HERE WE GO AGAIN

[Kitz]

So if you're prepared to find a wagon that won't exist on either myself or TSO then SHIT THAT SUCKS.
I'm not going to be a part of it anymore.

I don't think you're scummy.

And well, you have made a lot of good arguments and other players have called on him including me, so...
I'd support, if it wasn't for the ambigious wake replacement also voting him.

[Kitz]

if it wasn't for the ambigious wake replacement also voting him.

Elaborating.

VOTE: tso

didn't finish reading

but i like this right now. a lot.

i have no more feelings

until i get another flip which will hopefully be my faq2 flip

which will in turn hopefully be a scumflip

that supertownifies me.

also i've been toying with the idea of tso!scum.

his treatment of the faq2 wagon and handling post-jump onto it kind of pings.

This guy.
He haven't read fully, positive of a scum FA, then jumps on TSO.

[Kitz]

Kitz – town lean. Kitz is trying to lurk though and that is bothering me. Her reaoning for this is dumb IMHO – town does not need to lurk to get suspicion off them, that is a scum motivation. Not getting scum from other actions though.

I never said I'm lurking to avoid suspicion. Selective reading is bad.

[Kitz]

lurking and then you quote yourself where you are unmotivated because "Betrayed by town, trolled by town, conned by town, and et cetera." Basically sounds to me like you don't like the fact that town was scum reading and attacking you so you decided to lurk to throw it off.

Can you explain it another way?

How about "This game is so fucked up and stupid that the past isn't really worth reading anymore so I'm just gonna depress into the Now and see what happens"?
I really don't know how to explain. I can be rather literal and I have my own use of words. I did say I'm unmotivated, so unless something Actually of interest pops up that doesn't mimmic the freaking spectacles before...

And I said nothing about scum attacking me at all. That's not what I said.
Someone gamethrew, another somewhat under a gambit, another was just so scummy in general without even an attempt to fix it, that the general town just attacked itself. Not me specifically. Every PR is dead lewl.
On top of that we got the enemy factions.
Gee. All we got is interactions, and I'm just white noise after seeing how the previous prods went.

[Kitz]

The one thing that makes me doubt that read is that he didn't buddy me. He buddies me hardcore in games where he's scum. Like for real and he didn't here.

Hm.
Hmm.
Mh?

This is your Obv-Meta?
1. What if he decided to change it?
2. Has he buddied you while the two of you were scum together?
3. Has he buddied you while you were scum?
4. Has there been instances where he did not buddy you like he should have?

[Kitz]

Was casually checking before going to sleep.

Kitz, who's your top scumread at the moment?

Now?
The magical answer and the lucky winner : Tie between Aeronaut and Ozgin.

[Kitz]

Hmm, let's do a compromise.
The lynch is leaded and followed with by the most towny person.
If that player we all decide is the most towny decides a lynch, we'll follow.
Obviously we can't think of ourselves as towny.

The most towny out of the whole bunch is Wolf in my opinion.

[Kitz]

Kits you did not answer my question.

Which one? Slow brained atm.

[Kitz]

Are we at L1 for FA now?

#Mod Requesting VC.

[Kitz]

Marquis' Opinion Changes are just startling and overall behavior.
VOTE: Marquis

L-2 Tie / FA & MQ.

[Kitz]

Beware. Moving my vote.
VOTE: FA

L-1?

[Kitz]

Fun when the day starts and the game were still locked for a while.

And there goes the Doc... Which is another PR, and he died without even telling if he did heal anyone.
Back to square one.
/TableFlip

With how the game turns out, I'm unfortunate to say I'm willing to look at the "Towny" players now. NS was being scummy, yet dies and flips Doc.
Those that are familiar with most of the players here are FoS', with meta and informative to their advantage.

Comments? SilverWolf, Aeronaut, Shinobi.
There's just no danger to these players.

[Kitz]

Comments? SilverWolf

NS could be scum but there are a couple posts which make me re-think that and I'm not going to speculate.

when I realized NS might actually be town after re-ISOing for ~reasons~

Well, what do you think of the fact elusive and NS have soft claimed roles?

Quick ISO with " NS" on the search. You crumbed him, and saw him out.

Gonna rush out for the doc now, seeya later.

[Kitz]

First, What do you mean there is just no danger to these players? Explain that comment in detail please.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

They're alive. There's no danger at all it seems, and they don't really seem to care about dying, like if they informatively understand that they won't die and perhaps scum.

, and for some odd reason you left out everyone else's comments about NS.

I was early up so I could visit the doctor, and I rushed before I could do more than a quick ISO. Got a problem with that?

Kitz, yesterday I asked you who your top two scumreads were, and you said me and Ogzin. Why then, have you yet to vote for either of us, or push for us in any way?; eg, why go for FA when he wasn't one of your top scumreads.

Because at that point it's just gut read. All the actual reads went out of the freaking drain.
I moved on to FA because it was clear that those I read town wanted FA.
And you say "Go for FA", I didn't push. I simply moved my vote, in favor of those who I see town, and an observation test of hesistant and reluctant hammering / unvotes.

Beware. Moving my vote.

It's not uncommon for the doc not to reveal if they healed anyone or not. That info. isn't revealed until post game or if the doc claims for some reason. Doc's playing scummy is not unusual either.

Red flag. A Doctor should reveal at that point if all he managed to heal are still alive. It would aid us in finding Scum, and do a process of elemination.
None had claimed to be healed. What's a good doctor if he can only heal to prolong but not aid in the slightest towards finding Scum? Continous mislynches outweights outing self in order to find multiple scum.

Unpopular opinion there.

What do you mean that those that have meta and are familiar with the players are FoS? Why is it suspicious to you that some of us are familiar with each other? I find that very odd.

Some can read that player and understand the softclaim, and those that are specifically looking for them. These understood the value of his flip.

Here's NS's posts outing himself or crumbing or whatever 2840

Everyone, please. Answer me this.

Have you ever seen a setup with town powerroles where one PR was every-night and the other powerrole was split between even/odd?

Because we have even/odd doctors (well, two nonconsecutive doctors, very nearly the same thing), but both claimed cops are every-night.

Think about that for just a moment.

We can lynch either vikingfan or ABR. I don't care anymore. Ellie can be next.

How is that crumbing to own role..? All I see is adding to the setup discussion.
Even though the "two doctors" could be a potential slip, I'd think of that logically as well with the absurd lack of kills.

You are an FoS to me now for your selective quoting and saying I outed NS though so there's that.

Instead of the others who also were part of it? Now you're the selective one.

UTR

2nd time I ask. What's UTR?

[Kitz]

Although to be fair, I woke up, showered, had breakfast, then read the game and quickly ISO'd Wolf, before I rushed off to the doctor, so I really couldn't do too much reading, but I thought the " NS" search revealed enough.

[Kitz]

NS said TWO non-consecutive Docs. Only one had flipped. He very plainly meant that he was the other

How does that scream "I'm the 2nd one"?
Logic can be used... Lack of kills.

[Kitz]

Not to mention that if this was so extremely obvious, why didn't he claim then?

[Kitz]

OMG I am sooooooo annoyed. I responded to everything in your wall Kitz and your last two posts and went to hit preview to see how it looked and my internet crashed and it is gone now.

Damn it!!

That's why I notepad stuff. TLDR?

[Kitz]

WHY ARE WE EVEN ARGUING ABOUT WHY WE KNEW HE WAS DOC AHHHH

Because not all knew.
In this scenario if all knows anyway, it's best to out himself.

That should be the better play.
If I was Doc and everyone knew I was one without me claiming and it was obvious at that point, I'd just claim and reveal my information.

[Kitz]

Who would shoot NS?

Doc can't heal itself. Scum killed NS.

[Kitz]

Hm, I think your internet is fine now Wolf.
Just pointing that out.

---

#Everyone: We still have not solved the mystery of the first night. Pisskoff was killed (who was scum), Boonskies died (who was doctor), and Viking claimed being attacked and healed.
So here's my wacky "What The Fuck" theory. Is there a mafia role who suicides itself in order to turn another into mafia? Back where I am from, we have that role.
Inb4 a thousand facepalms.

[Kitz]

Well, 3 kills and I really doubt more than one is from a faction. There's lack of kills after. No one claimed healed other than Viking. There's lack of flips to reflect on the mystery itself.
So what about those two additional?

Inb4 2x oneshot vigilantes.ame role flip.

The fact that there's lack of appropriate flips other than doctors, lack of healed, lack of evidence for consistensy, so my reads are all over the flipping place.

Wouldn't it be apropriate for the Oneshot Vigi to already claim since he's useless anyway now?
So fucking confused.

[Kitz]

I think I give up on overall guessing.
Who's up for drawing straws if we fail to find someone?

[Kitz]

House told me day 1.

We had an entire conversation on it.

That's like a whole month ago?

[Kitz]

Kitz: I haven't forgotten about your original big post either.

That's why I poked you by saying your internet seems fine now.

[Kitz]

Soooo... Does this mean that this "neighbour" thing is confirmed town?

On another note, I wouldn't mind voting MQ, Shin or Aero.
Too bad it's all pretty much gut at this point.

[Kitz]

Who's MQ?

Who else has a freaking Q in their name?

[Kitz]

Why would you suggest lynching Marquis/myself when we were just trying to kill each other?

That's why.

[Kitz]

Well, I'm a "newbie town", with no association with anyone here, riding on all sides except those that are brutally antitown, and lack the thing called "Meta".
If I'm to be guessed scum, all you can really guess is a neutral with no faction members.

Wolf, what's your actual read on Shinobi and Cheetory?

[Kitz]

I've also explained that killing Kitz would be grand because she keeps calling me mafia for little to nothing, and it seems like she keeps coming up with excuses to scumread me. She's been on about lynching me since day 1 and hasn't really ever gotten to it nor has she had any interest in questioning me.

The first one, what?
You're saying that it's better to kill me because I call you suspicious?
Okay. Lynch everyone else for also having an opinion.

The second one, half of those are constructive, and the half rest is poking you with a stick due to the gut feel.

The third, I didn't push a lynch on you.

So yeah, back to basics :
I first poked on you for having said to see no discrepancies with ABR.
Then later I decided to read you town, because I couldn't really find much...
Then I ISO'd you and TSO and found some weird rivalry, so I casually asked him a read of you.
And then I got a bit suspicious of some things I forgot, something about contex-of-eachothers or something, so you were on "potential scum" team list, but now the two others are dead, sooooo...
Then I called you on something, and mentioned that rivalry thingy.
And then you wrote that you're no longer townreading because of my big post which is a blatant rant.
I again casually mention that riv thingie.
Then I call out on you for your bad opinion with no third alternate.

Also, one of the times I poked you, I called you Shinoby just to subtly taunt you.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you were scum, and that some certain other's the scum mate, but really, the read is just solid.
There's no actual slip other than the neutral devil's-advocate multi-side behavior.

Here's my read on you : You're not endangered. You have biased opinions. You have selective reading. You're defending lynchbaits and scummy players in a very oddly neutral way. Because of my poking and suspecting of you, you're now passive-aggressive and semi-tunnel on me, with just that as a basis and none else.

Because I'm conflicted about you, I'll leave this vote here. You say I've been meaning to lynch you, but here's the thing : I have never voted on you, until now.
VOTE: Shinobi

[Kitz]

your OMGUS of Shinobi

I don't see why it's OMGUS. Wouldn't that be Shinobi doing that in any case? I was the one poking after all.
Without votes of course, until now.

picking out people you feel are safe which is ridiculous

Then explain to me why Math out of all players that night was killed, and not one of you.
ABR gamethrew, and the way it was done - both scum and town would be too confused about Math, superlynch bait and we'd have to take credit on the ABR Flip.
Nope, just killed. Like if there was no better option?
That's what makes me on the edge about "safe players".
And here's the thing : ABR said that Math is scum for visiting someone, and towned Shin, while we didn't know the information was false yet - why Math and not Shin?

I hope you get my point.

and your lack of committed opinions until now.

I don't have a lack of options.

Also, there's still no wall-of-text-responding.

[Kitz]

I already told you everything in your wall of text is answered and Math was killed because Wake outed her as a venegful townie it the thread. Wake was very scummy which I also pointed out. There's also a doc in this setup which could of been saving people and/or a BP protection going on.

You actually did answer everything? Hm, then I'm dumb and can't see that.

---

He flipped a Tracker, claimed that Math had visited someone who died.
So by that assumption, right off the bat we all, including scum, sees him as a liar? It wasn't a confirmed lie until Math herself was killed.

An absolute wasted opportunity by scum.
= Kill someone other than Math, get Math lynched, and hope that Math targets one that's town.
Beneficial for scum as they can avoid being voted at, rather than the risk of being voted and lynched.

Again discreditting Wake's "She's vengeful", since it's a loud opinion based on the perception of a player's behavior, which could be the cause of a gambit done by said player.
If I casually blurted out "I think Elusive is the one-shot vigilante", would everyone believe it and take that granted? And note, that example is completely random.

We also didn't know of a 2nd doctor, other than Scum if their kill was the one failing.

So that's the issue.

[Kitz]

Scum would not want Math to be lynched if she's vengeful.

Let's see... What makes Scum super-scared?
Is there an obvious slip that Math could have seen?
Why isn't the scummy others a viable option?
What's the chance of (L/M)YLO if she targeted a town?

If we answer correctly, we might see potential players who'd be scared.

[Kitz]

Everything you post is stupid.

Everything?

[Kitz]

mafia have a doctor and therefore vig kill isn't going through

That's too OP, and it would be better for the Vigi to speak loudly at this point if that's the case.

[Kitz]

I want to hear your actual opinion on Kitz. Is she scum,

or is she town?

Or are you just looking for a lynch?

"Hey Shinobi, you want to lynch Kitz. Do you townread her?"
Just found that a bit odd. Wouldn't it obviously mean no?

On another note, my poking on him with a stick seems to have grown into drama later on, is it normal for these reactions from him?

[Kitz]

I have something which makes me 100% town, and you don't, though I'd really rather not reveal it unless I have to.

Is this it?

Who knows? Maybe NS was on me and I got shot.

[Kitz]

Remember what happened the 4 other lynches? "Me or another".

ERMAGUD IT REPETZ

[Kitz]

We haven't seen anything flip.

I think he reffers to Piss = Roleblocker scum.

[Kitz]

Hm, if it's not possible to have a role that disguises its role somehow with another, then we can confirm the fact that there's just one dead scum.

I'm all too confused with the flood of PR.

[Kitz]

Kitz, vote Marquis.

Hmm, my condition for that vote is that you post a reads-list of everyone currently alive chronologically.

VOTE: Marquis

[Kitz]

Chronologically means in order of time - I don't get what you mean by a chronological readslist.

How your reads changed over time in chronological order, including now.

[Kitz]

VOTE: Shinobi

Based on this just recent behavior.

P-Edit :
What was the deleted post?

[Kitz]

either this is a scum power

Best fucking role.

Neutral Post Killer
- May target a post, guranteeing its demise.

[Kitz]

So you're the biased Vigi? Heya.
Asking this : Did you kill Piss, and exactly why?

I saw no actual crumbs, GJ.

Please explain both these votes in more detail Kitz.

To be frank I moved my vote so I could get his list, and he failed to deliver. Back the vote goes. And in general, his recent freakout just seemed

forced

.

[Kitz]

OK, So you weren't scumreading Marquis?

Nope.

What list You didn't ask me for anything iirc.

I asked T S O.

[Kitz]

Oh so you just voted me for garbage reasons again.

Whining loudly about this exact thing before freaking about how many votes you have, when... Oh, not even that many votes. Then jabber about past stuff.
That, without constructively playing. I'm seeing probably lack of initiative and direct discussion on appropriate things.
Derp.

So you voted for someone you weren't scumreading.

OK then...................................

Psychology to get a list, in case things goes wrong and that he probably dies, since his "undenyably town" (which were now a vig claim) would get him killed.
Sue me~

[Kitz]

How? How is that a slip in any way?

Two different treatments of the same treatment? Just saying.

[Kitz]

How do you explain three kills that one night Aero?

I still have that theory about a visit killer... If that's possible.

[Kitz]

There were 3 shots N1-only makes sense with a vig really. Especially Pisskop's death.

Okay, there's the Mafia, the Vigi, and...?

[Kitz]

I see a problem here.
A large problem.

Night 1, Mafia killed - Doctor killed - Cop healed.
= 3 shots.
Night 3, Mathblade killed by T S O Vigilante.

Where the fuck did the SK and Mafia kill go?

[Kitz]

I don't think scum shot MathBlade n3. So that leads me to think NS blocked that, and I think he was on me. That's why I've been saying I think I was Doc'd n3.

That's 2/3.

[Kitz]

Cop healed

what

Vikingfan = Cop, claimed RB'd and Healed.

[Kitz]

Just a curious thing.
Why T S O over Wolf?

Do you ever see it possible to lynch Wolf?
Nope. Free townie roaming about.

The vig thing is way too transparrent and there's some others who had more vigi crumbs.

[Kitz]

Just a curious thing.
Why T S O over Wolf?

Do you ever see it possible to lynch Wolf?
Nope. Free townie roaming about.

WTF are you talking about?

Pretty much this, Kitz, no idea what this means.

What I said is that town players like Wolf is still alive.
If I was Scum, I'd target Wolf so that the whole game disrupted with less trusted players and way more confusion. (If I didn't see a PR, obviously)
For the same anti-reason, if I was a doctor I target her as well.

I'm not convinced by T S O's psychologic "Think I was attacked and healed" with no feedback, because Boon and NS are the same exact roles.
If he's correct on targeting Math out of policy, it means this : Either he's a Scum (and obviously lie), or he's a Town (with the host having made an error) being the only one to succeed an attack on the third night.

Multiple nights with just a single kill, I'm having a fair idea that the Mafia with all their PR's and shit should know who's a target and whose not, and if there's a SK he should know who's unable to die and stuff.

Anyway, missing kills and certain players being still alive, it makes me suspicious of them.
I'm really bad as voicing opinions, but I hope you get the message.

If there's two Vigilantes, and there's the non-consequent kind, why not act either night 3 or 4, Vig 2?

[Kitz]

I know I'm going to end up putting Kitz in the townbloc eventually, so let's cut to that.

Aeronaut, elusive and Ozgin.

This probably might be a bit selfish to say, but I'd like to put Aeronaut and Elusive on the town spot for their behavior towards me, when I'm a low hanging fruit for scum to pick on.

Also analyzing the players, I really don't see any possible associates for T S O, so town or neutral killer.
Here's an extremely unpopular opinion : If he's SK, he want to kill Mafia so he doesn't get "outnumbered" and loose, so we should keep him around for now.
So, regardless of town vigi or serial killer, Mafia's going down.

[Kitz]

Why are you giving ideas to the scum?

You're totally missing what I'm trying to say.

[Kitz]

so enlighten me, what am I missing?

Too town to live? Maybe scum is among them, so they wouldn't fire at self?
It's just food for thought.

[Kitz]

i'm vt, or "citizen". my final switch back to fa_q2 yesterday was me being dumb and thinking fa_q2's "vt" claim was fake due to him being scum being forgetful/unaware of the actual normal town role. but then even i instinctively wrote out vt instead of citizen typing this up right now so yeah. that was dumb

I want you to elaborate on. What do you mean "citizen" and due to him being forgetful/unaware of the actual normal town role?

[Kitz]

And I'll be asking this : Wolf and Shinobi, what's your roles?

[Kitz]

You answer first.

[Kitz]

Marquis already claimed, please read.

I want the claim refined and his elaboration on that particular thing.
Not answering will make me auto-scumread.

[Kitz]

I think I see 3 scumslips already.

[Kitz]

Your refusal to answering is enough scummy.
I'd figure an experienced player like you shouldn't dilly-dally on something this simple.

[Kitz]

Just answer. Also, JFC?
And potentially the whole Town will benefiit.

[Kitz]

Alright, simpler question. Are you a Vanilla Town?