Scummies Ideas, Suggestions and Comments Thread

[EspeciallyTheLies]

any award that is not specifically tailored toward rewarding a loser will go to a winner.

well ok. do we have anything that recognizes a player for exceptional play in a single game?

[zoraster]

3rd party is mostly like that even though it's technically a body of work, but no, we don't have something that specifically recognizes a single player from a single game.

[xRECKONERx]

3rd Party isn't BoW, zor.

[xRECKONERx]

My issue with the "single player, single game" award is that it seems too narrow?

Maybe narrow isn't the word... it just seems like, if someone has a fucking awesome game and goes off, then nominate them for Paragon or Don, instead. The game will be considered. If they're actually good, then it won't just be a fluke, and people will look at that game when considering them for the award. And if it really is just ONE game of awesomeness... well... I feel like even a broken clock is right twice a day, so why is one good game worthy of an award?

[zoraster]

oh you're right. okay. then that i guess. though theoretically a team third party would probably qualify.

[zoraster]

btw the description of GOTY still says "given to the moderator"

[xRECKONERx]

My issue with Best Town/Scum Performance in a Loss is that it feels way too similar to Best Town Performance. We already have the category that can allow for a losing team to win the Scummie, so it seems weird to create a special category just for losing performances. Should we then change the current ones to Best Winning Performance as Town/Scum? Then it just seems like an "A FOR EFFORT" type award, or like little league where everyone walks home with a trophy.

I dislike individual player awards for single games just as a principle. It is very hard to determine which single player had the biggest effect out of a whole team in a single game, since games are RARELY "one guy carries the whole team". That would just invite a ton of single-player nominations from single games, and judging that is pretty difficult. Judging is already an issue for these Scummies and all of our recent changes are towards streamlining the judging process or making categories easier to judge.

I don't feel that having one good game is worthy of an award, though. There's a reason why every

single

person award we have is Body of Work. Everyone has a fluke, or a good game. There's always at least one person who looks good at the end of the game, because someone had to be right or less wrong than everyone else. I'd much rather see mods implement their own "end of game vote" for who the playerlist thought was the MVP or something, because that's pretty cool and rewarding to be recognized like that. But awarding ONE scummy out of the 100+ games that are run on the site each where, where the vast majority of those games are going to have at least one person who stood out as a great performance... sometimes multiple people... that's just silly.

I also, again, don't think a losing cause scummy is necessary because a win isn't required to be considered for an award. I'd be happy to edit the language to point out that much, but I don't particularly see the value in creating an award just for losers. That would make the other awards just for winners by default. Then we start moving across the board, and well, third parties should also be considered if they lose, right? So why not break that one out a little more? And what about scum

teams

instead of single player? We should probably create a win/lose dichotomy in the awards for whole teams as well.

But, I don't think mastin was particularly arguing for a 'losing cause' scummy so much as a 'single player, single game' scummy. It is my personal opinion that such an award is too broad and would encourage too many nominations, bogging down both the SSC's process and the judging process. I mean, just going through my recent games:

999 Mafia: Everyone universally agreed that Gamma carried the town that game, he was the MVP.
Air Combat Mafia: GreyICE saved the town from losing almost by himself, universal agreement.
MS Fantasy Camp 2: UT & Cerulean balled out of control and rolled the town by being universally townread at endgame.

Those are just the most recent three. And I feel like, if I went and read every recently completed game with a good playerbase, there'd be 1-3 people in each of those games who obviously stood out among the town. If, as you said above, having an outstanding game isn't necessarily indicative of skill, then I don't think it's deserving of a Scummie. The game-related Scummies are meant to reward skilled players, not mediocre players who just got lucky one time.

[xRECKONERx]

Here's an idea: what if the Scummies setup post-game surveys (kind of like zoraster used to do for Large Themes) that asked people to rate or rank other players' performances in the game, and leave a field for comments?

Nominations sometimes get overlooked due to people just not thinking about the fact that they could nominate someone for a Scummie. We could do something like "anything with an average score of 3.5 or higher automatically gets a Scummies nomination" or something like that?

[Psyche]

there are in fact loads of ways to quantify scummies

[SleepyKrew]

Would that be for every game?

[zoraster]

there are in fact loads of ways to quantify scummies

what a helpful comment.

[Psyche]

i suppose i could have said something less obvious

[zoraster]

Or given your preferred method. Having "lots" is meaningless (not to mention vague) when you can only use a limited number of methods to ACTUALLY do it.

[Bookitty]

Here's an idea: what if the Scummies setup post-game surveys (kind of like zoraster used to do for Large Themes) that asked people to rate or rank other players' performances in the game, and leave a field for comments?

Nominations sometimes get overlooked due to people just not thinking about the fact that they could nominate someone for a Scummie. We could do something like "anything with an average score of 3.5 or higher automatically gets a Scummies nomination" or something like that?

I really like this suggestion. +1

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Me too but it seems like an awful lot of work for someone to do.

[Psyche]

Or given your preferred method. Having "lots" is meaningless (not to mention vague) when you can only use a limited number of methods to ACTUALLY do it.

i said "loads"!

[xRECKONERx]

It is a SHITLOAD of work so it's something we'd have to consider but it may not be a bad idea. (Or possibly, if we could get listmods to help us out with it, or each mod of the game.)

[Cheery Dog]

If you think more awards are needed, i suggest joining a judging group next time, there's a lot of effort and motivation that judges might not have in looking at these games.

[quadz08]

cheery dog saying the things that need to be said

[Aeronaut]

Here's an idea: what if the Scummies setup post-game surveys (kind of like zoraster used to do for Large Themes) that asked people to rate or rank other players' performances in the game, and leave a field for comments?

Nominations sometimes get overlooked due to people just not thinking about the fact that they could nominate someone for a Scummie. We could do something like "anything with an average score of 3.5 or higher automatically gets a Scummies nomination" or something like that?

I really like this suggestion. +1

+2

It is a SHITLOAD of work so it's something we'd have to consider but it may not be a bad idea. (Or possibly, if we could get listmods to help us out with it, or each mod of the game.)

Couldn't the mod just literally copy-paste a template into the post game and people can fill it out?

[quadz08]

That means either we're relying on mods to do something that happens after their game is technically over (read: most won't do it) or we need the listmods to be aware of exactly when every game in their queue ends and post that survey in it at that time (which is a lot of work that we currently aren't doing). Also, we'd then have to compile all that information, which is more work in itself.

[diginova]

That means either we're relying on mods to do something that happens after their game is technically over (read: most won't do it) or we need the listmods to be aware of exactly when every game in their queue ends and post that survey in it at that time (which is a lot of work that we currently aren't doing). Also, we'd then have to compile all that information, which is more work in itself.

Couldn't the listmods do it when they last post?

[Toomai]

Couldn't the listmods do it when they last post?

Last posts don't happen until months after the game ends. Seems like a poor time to gather data from the players.

[quadz08]

^ no one will be paying attention to the thread, nor do I think most will have a fresh enough memory of the game to give a useful response.

[xRECKONERx]

Couldn't the mod just literally copy-paste a template into the post game and people can fill it out?

If the data isn't received on the backend by the Scummies Committee, then it becomes a game of "hunt down a mod until they give us the data".

Plus, copy/pasting a template still doesn't alleviate the workload of "copy all completed templates/data into a managable spreadsheet or database"