New Normal Guidelines - April 2017 update!

[Wake1]

I like this.

We need more standardized roles added to the list of explicitly Normal roles.

What I'd like to see is a new modifier of sorts added. "Loud." When a player with the Loud modifier targets a player at Night, the target will become informed that something targeted him or her successfully, but won't be told anything else.

Also, does the Friendly Neighbor grant a confirmed status? It says it's stronger than IC.

Would also like to see the 'Hated' and 'Loved' abilities standardized and used in Normal games. Something new for Scum to use besides role cop/roleblock, etc.

[Wake1]

I like Motion Detector.

Subtle information gathering.

Not overpowered like Cop.

We need more subtle, subtle things like this.

Adds more mystique and intrigue to the game.

[Wake1]

And I really,

really

like Vanilla Cop in a game with SK and Goons.

[Wake1]

Could we please have a modifier that allows the player to only use an ability during X-Day?

Call it an 'Day-X' ability. Like, say, a player who can only use a doc ability during Day 4: a

Day-4 Doctor

.

[Wake1]

Now I'm feeling really enthusiastic, and would like to incorporate more roles in a Large Normal, including some of these.

[Wake1]

Would the 'Loud' modifier be allowed in the one unique slot in Normal Minis?

FN seems a wee bit overpowered. ot sure I'd want to use that without ample balance.

'Hated' and 'Loved' status deal with votes. A 'Hated' player requires one less vote to be lynched, whereas a 'Loved' player requires one more.

A Mafia power role that could inflice 'Hated' status to a player would be neat. Equally so if a Town role had that ability.

[Wake1]

'Best Friends' should become part of Normalized play, since they're significantly weaker than Masons, Friendly Neighbor, and Innocent Child.

[Wake1]

Best Friends aren't going to be used, I'm afraid. The power in masons comes from the confirmed town status. That ability is so powerful, that the communication part of it is incidental. They're not "significantly" weaker, they're incidentally weaker but not by much.

'hated' and 'loved' fuck with votes and that's something we don't really want in normals atm (hence doublevoter being gone)

FN is basically a one-shot cop investigation, reversed. I think it's more balanced than one shot cop, really, because it can never get a guilty result, and will only ever give a town result.

Yet with Best Friends, the point is for them not to be powerful, but to have that subtle element added into the game that makes it all the more enjoyable.

I can see the reasoning with the Loved/Hated stuff.

Really liking FN now that I've read it through again. Will likely attempt this in a Large Normal.

[Wake1]

Also, Wake, I'd be careful in this thread with how much you're saying "going to try this in a LN" or whatever.

That is good advice. Thank you.

[Wake1]

Do any of these new roles help correct swinginess when it comes to multiple Scum factions?

[Wake1]

Double Day mechanic?

I've never heard of that..

[Wake1]

Double Day mechanic?

I've never heard of that..

Basically, every

OTHER

lynch is followed by night instead of every single lynch.

...

Has this been part of Normal gameplay?

Sounds like Half-Nightless.

[Wake1]

Woah.

Wait.

Nightless is now allowed in Mini Normals if announced beforehand?

Ugh. This change happened just a little while after trying to mod a Mountainous Nightless game that's Normal/balanced. 9:4.

[Wake1]

So a Nightless Large Normal game is possible now?

As long as it is balanced, and with Normal-ish PRs?

[Wake1]

Vengeball Large Normal Nightless.

13:4:4.

If lynched, that particular Scum can kill a player (Vengeful?).

Something like Vengeful that'd work in this Setup.

Thought just crossed my mind, but needs lots of work.

[Wake1]

Many other explicitly Normal roles have been formally standardised.[/b]

May we please have a list?

I think Nightless being allowed is great.

These added options and changes really makes me want to keep modding games here. Not to mention play in them when able.

[Wake1]

Never liked the Hiders. Do like the Friendly Neighbor idea a lot.

[Wake1]

'Loud' would be a neat, Normalized modifier.

[Wake1]

Got some questions regarding these roles, and figured I'd ask them at the same time.

01)

Can the Friendly Neighbor's action be roleblocked?

02)

Also, what would the standardized sentence the FN gives look like?

03)

Instead of giving a group of Neighbors Daytalk, can one of those Neighbors (Town or Scum), be an Encryptor?

04)

On the Gunsmith wiki page, it says that it gets guilties on all Mafia (except Traitors and Doctors), Cops, Vigilantes, Gunsmiths, Role Cops, Vanilla Cops, Backups of roles with guns and JoATs that have any of these listed powers.

Would like to know if there are any other Normalized PRs that can be found guilty by Gunsmith.

. Also, what would the guilty result/sentence be that is given to the Gunsmith? ---> "Your target owns a gun." Would that be appropriate?

05)

If a Vanilla Cop investigates a Vanilla Townie with a modifier, what happens? Vanilla Townies, Mafia Goons, and Serial Killers with no additional powers return a "Vanilla" result, while all other roles return "not Vanilla". There's no mention of modifiers on that Wiki page, but I'm hesitant to assume that 'modifier' = 'power.' What further makes me unsure is how in the 'Use and Power' section it says that it can help mafia narrow down the pool of town power roles, which sounds like this helps decide who isn't a power role, and I do know that Power Role =/= modifier. Please clear this up for me.

06)

For 'Jack-of-all-Trades,' as long all of its one-shot component abilities are Normal, the role is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. So I could make one JOAT with '1-Shot Motion Detector' and '1-Shot Rolestopper;' and then in the same game make a second JOAT with '1-Shot Voyuer,' '1-Shot Rolestopper,' and '1-Shot Commuter'... and also have that second JOAT a Miller and a Neighbor? Is it possible and Normal? That'd be neat. Since It is up to a moderator's discretion whether a JOAT will flip with all their abilities shown or not, and needs to be decided during review, how would we go about doing this?




That's what crossed my mind for now. If you guys could straighten these questions out for me, that'd be both enlightening and appreciated.

[Wake1]

1) Yes FN's can be roleblocked

2) We don't have a standard but something like "You learned that Player-X is aligned with the Town and is a Friendly Neighbor"

3) Encryptor is only normal for mafia although I suppose a town encryptor could work as a non-normal allowed role. Mafia Encryptors only affect mafia chat.

4) No, the whole point of that list is to be 100% complete. Yes, that'd be appropriate.

5) Hmmm, that is a question that I'm not entirely sure on, but I would tend to think that having a modifier means you are NOT vanilla.

6) Yes, I think you can do that. I don't think you can have a Miller JoaT though since a miller qualifies as a role and not a modifier (at least in a normal sense, in non-normal games you can do whatever you want with it). You can have every role in the game be a JoaT with arbitrary abilities though. (Not that we'd approve that for balance if you did)

Agreed with AP's 1-4

5) If you've got a modifier but are otherwise vanilla (for example, Bulletproof Townie) a rolecop would see your modifier, and a vanilla cop would return 'not vanilla.'

6) You could conceivably design a game with multiple JOATs with different abilities, but keep in mind that merely complying with all the listed rules does not

necessarily

mean that your game will be considered normal - for example, a game with 7 doctors in it (even if it's balanced) will not pass a normalcy review.

Alrighty.

The

Friendly Neighbor

can be roleblocked. If we could get an exact standard for the

FN

's action, that would be good. May we please create one? Ah, I didn't know that

Encryptor

was Normal only for Mafia. Scratch that idea. So the

Gunsmith

's targets are all listed, and the response provided is appropriate—could we make that the Normal standard? It should be utilized more for subtler info-gathering. Could the

Role Cop

and

Vanilla Cop

please be edited to include modifiers as well? Please? Quad, do you think 2-3 modified JOATS (with no more than four 1-Shot abilities) would be fine/Normal in a 21-player Large Normal? I wouldn't want any of them to have killing abilities, either. The Wiki also says JOATs help with balancing out games, which is a plus.

Speaking of killing abilities, we should have Vanilla and Role Vigilantes Normalized. Seems like a decent variation that would fit in, perhaps?

[Wake1]

Are Day abilities considered Normal? Like an Odd-Day Vanilla Cop?

[Wake1]

Are Day abilities considered Normal? Like an Odd-Day Vanilla Cop?

No. They aren't explicitly non-normal though either. So you could have one in a mini and two in a large I believe.

That does help. Thank you.

Is it true that JOATS and the Ascetic modifier does reduce swinginess in games?

Two or more Ascetic slots I think would help, including basic Ascetic Townies and/or Goons. Anything that effectively reduces swing.

[Wake1]

Also, do you guys know how many pre-ins are currently allowed in a Large Normal?

[Wake1]

Thanks guys.

Sidenote: How effective do you think Ascetic is for controlling swinginess?

[Wake1]

I feel like as time goes on Normals become feature less and less roles.

you are just more aware of other roles - the latest revision of the Normal guidelines actually added roles, I believe

And I'd say it was done rather nicely. *Enjoying the latest edition.

It would be neat if the 'Loud' modifier was Normalized in the future.