MLB Baseball 2017

[MonkeyMan576]

Mariners, who are underachieving, have a pretty important 3 game series against the Astros, who are probably overachieving. If the Mariners sweep it could put them in command of a so far weak AL West.

Also, I was hearing talk radio shows talk about Bartolo Colon. He is an interesting potential hall of famer. He has a 207 wins and a 3.94 career ERA, which is pretty decent in this day and age. He has been in the major leagues for 18 seasons, which is pretty impressive. From a longevity discussion, he probably deserves to be considered a hall of famer, he has had 2 20 win seasons, which isn't bad, and 5 seasons with 15 wins or more, and had a 200 inning season after turning 40 years old. I would probably vote him in because hitters get more attention than pitchers.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yawn, must be so boring rooting for perennial winners.

[MonkeyMan576]

Which isn't happening beacuse cheaters shouldn't be in the hall. I don't recall Colon ever 'roiding.

[MonkeyMan576]

Nobody deserves to get into the HoF until Edgar Martinez does.

I'm all for Edgar getting in the hall, but there is too much anti-DH bias out there.

[MonkeyMan576]

Ah, forget him then. It's hard to keep track these days.

[MonkeyMan576]

I think the Cubs will be competitive. They are in kind of a tough division though, the Cardinals, Reds, and Pirates all look good.

[MonkeyMan576]

So the Mariners lose 2 out of 3 from the Astros, either the Astros are better than expected, or the Mariners bullpen, which was a strength last year, is going through a dry spell, since the Mariners had leads in all three games.

[MonkeyMan576]

Well, they did win 87 games last year and were one win away from the playoffs, and newly acquired Nelson Cruz is tearing the ball up. They actually have a pretty deep pitching staff aside from Felix. Hisashi Iwakuma, is turning out to be a better pitcher than Daisuke Matsuzaka was, Tijuan Walker is one of the best young pitchers in baseball, and JA Happ is a solid inning eater.

[MonkeyMan576]

You "cheaters shouldn't be let in" guys do realize that most of the players who are in the hall during the 60s-70s era were on speed to gain an advantage, right?

I don't think anyone ever hit 70 Home Runs a season on speed.

[MonkeyMan576]

The point is it wasn't widely publicized until the 1980s, so there was no inherent damage done to baseball. Once it became a public issue, baseball was required to take steps to protect the integrity of the sport. With your logic, Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose shouldn't be banned either. Why not just let everyone do whatever they want without worrying about the consequences?

[MonkeyMan576]

I am pretty liberal when it comes to private use of drugs, as long as you're not hurting anyone else I don't have a moral issue with it, but baseball became a billion dollar enteriprise in the 1980s, and they were required to take action or people would accuse the game of not being on a fair playing field.

[MonkeyMan576]

Ironically Mantle was the alchoholic, if this had taken place in today's time Mantle probably would have been crucified in the media and everyone would have loved Maris.

[MonkeyMan576]

I think there was less knowledge about alchoholism in the 50s than there is now, people would have spotted it, he would have acted out by being a wife beater or something, and his career would have lasted 5 years or so.

[MonkeyMan576]

You can't retroactively revoke hall membership for people that weren't drug tested, you can't blame people for not playing against african americans, but you can blame people that were drug tested and knew what the consequences were.

[MonkeyMan576]

MLB is having a fan-less game in Baltimore today because of the rioting. Should be interesting.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm surprised that the Yankees haven't tried to trade A-Rod since he is playing decent. If the Angels can get rid of Hamilton why can't the Yankees get rid of A-Rod?

[MonkeyMan576]

So make an anti-drug clause in his contract. If the Yankees would pay for 75% of his salary, as a Mariners fan, i would consider it.

[MonkeyMan576]

lol. Our bullpen is asleep most of the time anyways.

[MonkeyMan576]

So make an anti-drug clause in his contract. If the Yankees would pay for 75% of his salary, as a Mariners fan, i would consider it.

That's hardly saying much. As a Mariners fan, you should probably consider anything at this point.

This is true, we need hitting like Justin Beiber needs media attention.

[MonkeyMan576]

People saying Non-DH baseball is better than DH baseball is like people saying that old movies are better than new movies just because it's what they grew up watching. You'll be hard pressed to find an AL fan who agrees with NL fans on this. Most lineup changes needed for Non-DH play are rather obvious. You subsitutue a player for the pitcher when the pitcher comes up, or you have the pitcher bunt. There's nothing strategic about that. And if the DH extends players careers(both DH's and pitchers), then it's a good thing for baseball. Also fans enjoy higher scoring games.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm actually pretty well versed in baseball and have even taken college classees on baseball history. So no. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm actually pretty well versed in baseball and have even taken college classees on baseball history. So no. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about.

I mean, taking college classes doesn't mean that every single thing you've said about baseball thus far has been woefully wrong.


Also, you apparently didn't know that Shoeless Joe Jackson was innocent.

That wasn't my point. My point was that people need to be held accountable for their actions and drug testing is part of the collective bargaining agreement. If you want to take drugs, join the WWE, not baseball. Otherwise, don't complain when you're not in the HoF.

[MonkeyMan576]

You can't hold people accountable retroactively when there was no drug testing.

[MonkeyMan576]

Do you know a specific player that you know for sure used performance enhancing drugs before 1980?

[MonkeyMan576]

From now until the all star break, once per week, I'll post the best possible current rosters for the All Star game, and see how it changes from now to the game itself. I'll rotate leagues each week, so this week I'll do the AL and next week I'll do the NL. Each team is represented at least once, just like in the real game.

All Star Game Roster Tracker, Part 1(AL)
Starters
---------------
C - Salvador Perez(KC) - .341, 3 HR 14 RBI
1B - Miguel Cabrera(DET) - .370, 5 HR, 17 RBI
2B - Jose Altuve(HOU) - .365, 2 HR, 15 RBI, 9 SB
3B - Josh Donaldson(TOR) - .319, 5 HR, 16 RBI
SS - Jed Lowrie(HOU) - .284, 3 HR, 12 RBI
OF - Nelson Cruz(SEA) - .326, 10 HR, 22 RBI
OF - Hanley Ramirez(BOS) - .293 10 HR 22 RBI
OF - Mike Trout(LAA) - .329, 5 HR, 14 RBI, 6 SB
SP - Felix Hernandez(SEA) - 4-0, 1.82 ERA, 36 K

Reserves
---------
C - Stephen Vogt(OAK) - .348, 4 HR, 15 RBI
C - Brian McCann(NYY) - .266, 2 HR, 12 RBI
1B - Jose Abreau(CHW) - .297, 5 HR, 15 RBI
1B - Eric Hosmer(KC) - .317, 3 HR, 15 RBI
2B - Devon Travis(TOR) - .325, 6 HR, 19 RBI
2B - Dustin Pedroia(BOS) - .291, 4 HR, 10 RBI
3B - Mike Moustakas(KC) - .364, 3 HR 9 RBI
3B - Pablo Sandoval(BOS) - .312, 2 HR, 11 RBI
SS - Jose Inglesias(DET) - .368 1 HR, 3 RBI
OF - Adam Jones(BAL) - .400, 5 HR 19 RBI
OF - Lorenzo Cain(KC) - .338, 2 HR 12 RBI
OF - Jacoby Ellsbury(NYY) - .321, 1 HR 3 RBI
OF - Kole Calhoun(LAA) _ .315, 3 HR, 13 RBI
OF - Yoenis Cespedes(DET) - .302, 4 HR, 17 RBI
OF - Alex Gordon(KC) - .297, 3 HR, 11 RBI
OF - JD Martinez(DET) - .267, 6 HR, 15 RBI
SP - Alfredo Simon(DET) - 4-0, 3.13 ERA, 21 K
SP - Chris Archer(TB) - 3-2, 0.84 ERA, 37 K
SP - Dallas Keuchel(HOU) - 3-0, 0.73 ERA, 19 K
SP - Sonny Gray(OAK) - 3-0, 1.98 ERA, 22 K
SP - Danny Salazar(CLE) - 3-0, 3.32 ERA, 28 K
SP - Collin McHugh(HOU) - 3-0, 2.92 ERA, 23 K
SP - Scott Kazmir(OAK) - 2-0, 0.99 ERA, 30 K
SP - Edinson Volquez(KC) - 2-2, 1.91 ERA, 23 K
RP - Huston Street(LAA) - 9 SV, 0.89 WHIP, 10 K
RP - Joakim Soria(DET) - 9 SV, 0.66 WHIP, 7 K
RP - Andrew Miller(NYY) - 8 SV, 0.62 WHIP, 20 K
RP - Glen Perkins(MIN) - 6 SV, 0.56 WHIP, 8 K
RP - Brad Boxberger(TB) - 5SV, 1.07 WHIP, 13 K
RP - Zach Britton(BAL) - 4 SV, 0.96 WHIP, 13 K
RP - Shawn Tolleson(TEX) - 3 HLD, 0.86 WHIP, 13 K

By Team-
Tigers - 6
Royals - 5
Astros - 4
Yankeese - 3
Red Sox - 3
Angels - 3
A's - 3
Rays - 2
Orioles - 2
Blue Jays - 2
Mariners - 2
White Sox - 1
Twins - 1
Indians - 1
Rangers - 1

[MonkeyMan576]

Also LOL the stats you chose.

RBI - literally meaningless stat that simply measures how many people got on base before they got their hits.
Win - literally meaningless stat that measures how many runs a pitchers team happened to score, only counting those scored while they were in the game for some reason.
SV - literally meaningless stat that measures how well a pitcher performs under an arbitrary set of restrictions. Also, labors under the incorrect assumption that some players are more "clutch" than others.
SK - a stat that is meaningless without knowing both how many innings pitched and how many BB.

It's a good thing you "took baseball history classes in college"

RBI's, Wins, and Saves are good for All Star rosters, because all star rosters tend to have more players reprenting the winning teams. It's not a measure of pure statistical ability.

I took IP into consideration, but I only have the patience to type out so much. I think all star managers care more about K's than K/BB ratio. e.g., most managers will take the pitcher with 100 K's and 40 BB's at the all star break than someone with 30 K's, and 2 BBs.

But I'll consider evaluating some different stats for my next list, like K/BB and WAR.

[MonkeyMan576]

Do you know a specific player that you know for sure used performance enhancing drugs before 1980?

man google is hard

PEDs can be traced all the way back to 1889, when Pud Galvin, a pitcher for the Pittsburgh Alleghenys (which eventually became the Pittsburgh Pirates), used Brown-Sequard Elixir. That’s code word for testosterone derived from other animals, most notably dogs and guinea pigs. Even Babe Ruth, the legendary outfielder for the New York Yankees, tried to inject himself with extract from sheep testicles in 1925. This act only made him ill and forced him to miss some playing time.

I don't think there was much evidence that those were actually performance enhancing. If anything, it sounds like the side effects were worse than the supposed enhancement.

[MonkeyMan576]

I never said people didn't take drugs, I'm saying the statistical evidence didn't match with the actual widespread usage of the drugs like it did in the 1980s and 1990s.

[MonkeyMan576]

As far as I know there was never a positive drug test to prove this.

[MonkeyMan576]

How does how widespread the usage was have anything to do with whether SPECIFIC PLAYERS who cheated deserve to be in the hall or not?

It wasn't considered cheating at the time because no one knew what the effects of the drugs were. There were no tests. Probably every college player who has ever played has gotten help with academics at some point, that doesn't mean you can practically strip every player of every college award.

From a moral standpoint, yes you are right, steroid users probably do deserve to be in the hall of fame. But from a practical standpoint, there is no point of drug testing if there are not going to be consequences.

[MonkeyMan576]

because no one knew what the effects of the drugs were.

what the actual fuck
why were they taking drugs for a competitive advantage that they didnt know what they did?

I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about the general public. And if there was scientific proof that the drugs were effective there would have been more widespread use.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't think you can draw that kind of dividing line. Either we remove everyone who took PEDs from the hall, or we lift the ban on them. You can't say "Oh, well, Babe Ruth played in the era where PEDs were okay, so he gets in, but Barry Bonds doesn't." It's both or neither.

You can draw the line, and hall of fame voters have. You can argue the merits of their argument, but a lot of people obviously feel justified in leaving steroid era players that have tested positive out.

[MonkeyMan576]

I agree with you on ethical grounds, but baseball voters and Major League Baseball are in bed together to a certain extent.

[MonkeyMan576]

I was looking at the starting lineups for the Mets vs. Cubs game. Both teams have the pitcher batting 8th, since when is 9th not the best place to put pitchers?

[MonkeyMan576]

You don't think 400 career homeruns is newsworthy?

[MonkeyMan576]

Anyone interested in baseball I am trying to start a MLB Showdown trading card league in the mish mash.

[MonkeyMan576]

Proposal:
*Shorten regular season to 154 games.
*Lengthen Divisional Series to best of 7 and Wild Card Round to best of 3.
*Add four expansion teams, Indianapolis, Mexico City, Vancouver, and Orlando.
*Allow steroid users in the hall of fame, but remove one third of their stats.
*Stop making the all star game winners have home field advantage in the world series.
*Have players choose all star starters instead of fans.
*Reinstate Pete Rose(he should be hall of fame worthy just based on his playing stats, which he clearly wasn't trying to manipulate outcomes on.)

[MonkeyMan576]

I wonder who will finish with more career home runs, Bryce Harper, Kris Bryant, or Mike Trout?

[MonkeyMan576]

Toronto vs. Chicago would be a pretty damn interesting world series. Lots of power and high scoring games.

[MonkeyMan576]

I am simming a 2015 WS Toronto vs. Chicago matchup at WhatifSports.com:

Game 1: @Toronto 6, Chicago 2 HR: Encarnacion(1,2) D. Price(7 IP, 2 ER, 5 K)
Game 2: Chicago 14, @Toronto 7 HR: Coughlan(1,2,3), Bryant(1), Schwarbert(1), Donaldson(1,2), Martin(1)
Game 3: Toronto 7, @Chicago 0 HR: Donaldson(3), Smoak(1), Martin(1) Buhrle(7 IP, 0 ER 1 H)
Game 4: Toronto 5, @Chicago 2 Price(7 IP, 2 ER)
Game 5: @Chicago 9, Toronto 8 HR: Rizzo(1,2), Fowler(1), Castro(1), Bautista(1), Martin(2), Encarnacion(3)
Game 6: @Toronto 19, Chicago 7 HR: Donaldson(3,4), Encarnacion(4), Martin(3), Millar(1), Rizzo(3), Schwarbert(2)

Toronto wins world series 4-2.

[MonkeyMan576]

13th inning...guess this world series will be a battle of who has the best bullpens.

Kansas City has the better bullpen, 2.72 ERA vs. 3.48 ERA, 539 IP vs. 460 IP, in a less pitcher friendly league. So while this looks like a close matchup, I think this is going to end Royals in 6.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah but the mets arent going to be able to win consistantly in closevgames.

[MonkeyMan576]

I am an AL fan(Seattle) so I am rooting for the Royals.