Mini 1698: MDCXCVIII [C'est fini!]

[dragonspawn]

best friend boon!

[dragonspawn]

We can't all be best friends. We know there are some scum

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: pk

For taking so long to confirm properly

[dragonspawn]

nevermind. i'm moving on as this is a dumb discussion

Then why start it to begin with?

Seems to me its being dropped because it doesn't make you look goof and not because it's a dumb discussion.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: GrayFoxxxx
Scum found.

And how do you know this?

[dragonspawn]

Unvote

VOTE: GrayFoxxxx
I wanted to do this earlier but there was no one else voting him so it wasn't really worth it. Thank you, KK.

Yeah I
Dont like this. Town doesn't need cover for a vote.

VOTE: implosion

[dragonspawn]

Sorry about the sentence structure. Not sure why it posted like that.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: GrayFoxxxx
Scum found.

And how do you know this?

His vote was deliberately not random.

And that makes him scum because...?

[dragonspawn]

What is opportunistic about voting for someone who is behaving scummy? Aren't we supposed to be scum hunting?

[dragonspawn]

I'm the third vote unless I've miscounted.

[dragonspawn]

I did count right.

And since you're vote 1, why are you still voting implosion and not me?

[dragonspawn]

Yes, but 3 votes had already been placed on Implosion. I think he should have been trying to find another possible scum at that point.

Shouldn't we find one before we look for another? How do we do that without pushing and getting reactions?

We've barely had any posts from implosion. Let's put some pressure on him and get a better idea of whether he is scum before we start going hunting a partner.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: Woody Woodpecker

Hi everybody!

Khan can be town.

I'll say this often.

Why?

[dragonspawn]

This idea that we need multiple suspects is awfully strange.

Hi, have you played mafia before?

Yes. Something the timing seems strange, especially since he is still voting for Implosion.

You seem to be unable to realise someone can have more than one scumread. In this setup, there is likely three mafia. I don't see why I can't suspect more than one person.

Unvote

VOTE: GrayFoxxxx
I wanted to do this earlier but there was no one else voting him so it wasn't really worth it. Thank you, KK.

Yeah I
Dont like this. Town doesn't need cover for a vote.

VOTE: implosion

I don't paticularly like this vote from Dragonspawn. It seems rather oppurtunistic with a wagon on Implosion starting.

What makes you think dragonspawn's vote was opportunistic? He gave a fine reason for it, I think. Further, why are you voting Implosion when the first suspicion you have is towards dragonspawn?

Is that RVS?
If not, then since when have we only had one suspect on D1?
We do not have to lynch every suspect.

I think we're better off focusing on one at a time. It creates more pressure and keeps the town from becoming splintered. However, I am not necessarily opposed to having multiple suspects at a time. What you specifically suggested seemed suspicious to me so I am investigating you.

If everyone agrees on one person, that's a bad sign, as that means mafia are content with the lynch.
We are better off with everyone grilling their scumread, like you are doing with me right now.[/quote]


Where I everyone agreeing with lynching anyone at this point?

[dragonspawn]

Is not I.

[dragonspawn]

I wasn't sheeping KK, I just didn't have enough of an inclination to vote for you before I saw that it would make a wagon. Obviously I could be lying about that if I'm scum but that would be a bit silly, no?

Don't like this either. Why do you need to wait for others to make a wagon? Town has no reason not to create the wagons on suspects even if no one else sees it yet.

Scum on the other hand doesn't want to rock the boat.

[dragonspawn]

I'm hurt boon

[dragonspawn]

Been looking over implosion some more and I just see more questions. He didn't want to "waste" his vote by voting for gray before he knew whether a wagon could start, but he didn't hesitate being the first vote on woody at the beginning or being the first vote on evil after giving this explanation. So why was voting first on gray a wasted vote but voting first on woody and evil perfectly alright?

I look this over and I see backtracking by someone who is caught making a mistake. It's a sign of a guilty conscience and bad reasoning.

If implosion flips scum we should definitely look closer at woody and Mario. Both have been resisting/defending the push on implosion. On top of that woody especially looks like a good buddy for implosion as scum because it explains why he wouldn't worry about the woody vote creating a wagon. He had no intention of it becoming a wagon.

Just some general thoughts right now.

I like boon so far. Reminds me of my best friend. I'd like to see more from pk.

[dragonspawn]

Not really seeing an objection with lynching Mario. But id like to see more before any final decisions.

[dragonspawn]

I'm not liking pisskops unvote either. It has me wondering.

One thing in having issues with on the Mario push is no one other than Mario is really pushing back. That always concerns me.

[dragonspawn]

Q

we posted it at the exact same time. Like literally...check the time stamps. I see the PEdit thing, but I really didn't care enough to change anything.

Also, as I've posted, he won't even really read the thread. It really doesn't matter. He's super frustrating to be scum with, as you can check the private thread of the game we were scum together with.

So his buddies might toss him under a bus day 1?

[dragonspawn]

Why the scum reads on bulb? He seems null to me right now.

[dragonspawn]

Haven't had time to catch up yet. I will later.

[dragonspawn]

I am not trying to frame anyone.

Did some one day otherwise?

[dragonspawn]

Lynching town reads is playing against your win condition imo.

I disagree that this is always true.

[dragonspawn]

Vote:Stubbs

Is there anything more to this than simply pressure?

[dragonspawn]

Some people are like that though. They will swear that the sky is purple when you can both see it's blue. It's no a scum tell though imho

So far my impressions.

Like Khan, boon, shazam. Fa hasn't said a lot but he seems like his town self so I can put.him there right now.

Not terribly impressied with implosion. Also not impressed with woody but I'm leaning more to disliking his style then his alignment right now.

Not very impressed with mario/denominator slot but it's not like a hard core scum.

Pk was pinging me earlier but humankind of going back to null for me.

Everyone else is not giving me a strong impression.

[dragonspawn]

Top scum reads are:

Implosion
Mario slot
Pk
Woody

Top is strongest others not so much.

[dragonspawn]

Bulb isn't pinging me as scum at all. He was the last game I played with him. Shouldn't have second guessed that reaction.

[dragonspawn]

How was bulb in that game?

A bit more aggressive. He bussed his partner pretty well which is what ultimately threw me.

[dragonspawn]

I'm not really liking the push on fa. I understand boons reasoning for it but the other votes are just making me uneasy.

[dragonspawn]

Well give me some reason to comment and I will say more. I'm not in the mood to get involved in pointless bickering.

[dragonspawn]

And if I wasn't pushing for your lynch I might care how you read me.

But as I hope to have you on rope and be free of one scum by the end of the day, why would I care about you reading me?

[dragonspawn]

Yes

[dragonspawn]

[instagram][/instagram]

why is bulba town?

you're going to hate this, but it's mostly meta. I have three notes of posts that I read Bulba town in, and my explanation for all three of them is simply "meta." look at any game bulba has played and you will notice that his actions here totally line up with his town actions

more specifically, comparing his scum game to his town game, there are very distinct differences. I've found that he gives genuine, confident reads as town, while as scum, he plays a little more defensive with little thought given to reads.

I believe 213 is an example of town-bulba. so is 255 where he gives reads on everyone. in particular his read on Stubbs looks genuine to me -

as scum I think he would run with a scumread based on what he said there.

and then there are a bunch of little things that give me a gut townread on Bulba. little comments that he just wouldn't bother to make as scum.

is this an Anna scumslip?

Why would this be a scumslip?

[dragonspawn]

Okay. I'm all caught up.

Town: WoodyWoodpecker, Boonskiies, GrayFoxxxx, Shazam
Weaktown: TheDominator37, implosion
Weakscum: Annarchy, Bulbazoor, spice1209
Scum: FA_Q2, pisskop, dragonspawn

The WoodyWoodpecker/Boonskiies slapfight is a town on town squabble. GrayFoxxxx towntold pretty hard in the first half of the game. Shazam gave a strong town-tell as well.

I was never big on the MarioManiac4 wagon (I understand the reasons, but they aren't as strong as they are made out to be). TheDominator37 has been fairly townish, though a little milquetoast.

implosion is in the weak town because of a weird vibe that keeps him from being a full town read. Mostly it's the repeated motif where he has to constantly point out "scum-Khan could do that" which is weird that I'm the only one that gets this treatment. I had to look up if we had any game history and we've only ever been in one game together and I was town. If he could give me the reasoning behind this specific treatment I'd appreciate it, otherwise it feels a little like a "smear/discredit the townie" tactic.

The Annarchy weakscum read comes mostly from Necessary Evil. Necessary Evil's posts were lackluster and his read reasonings were vague. Though it could just be unfocused town. Annarchy has a totally different style, which is great, but I don't agree with many of her conclusions, which is bad.

Bulbazoor is a wildcard at the moment. His weird cadence/formatting, the backtrack, the (possible?) responding to old posts.. I can't even tell if english is his first language.

spicer1209 is in the hole that StubbsKVM dug at the moment. StubbsKVM was a weak scumread. And spice1209 is a non-read. So, it's meh/scum.

pisskop could be scum? I dunno? Maybe? He doesn't seem to care to find scum or lynch them. He's the emo kid of this game. He just wants to be left alone.

FA_Q2's Post 724 is the scummiest post I've ever read. It's one thing to hate a 10 page squabble. But finding both participants individually scummy (where if one turns up town, the other must be scum) is ridiculous.

dragonspawn feels like textbook scum coasting. He's not leading any wagons. He's not pushing or making waves. Here's a quick experiment. Without looking at the votecount, someone tell me who dragonspawn is voting for and why.

Spoiler: answer

It's implosion. And best I can figure it's because he's not "impressed" by him.

VOTE: dragonspawn

I've been pushing implosion from the beginning. Hard to argue I'm not pushing anyone. And then at the same time say I am.

Can you make a more Inconsistent argument?

[dragonspawn]

Okay. I'm all caught up.

Town: WoodyWoodpecker, Boonskiies, GrayFoxxxx, Shazam
Weaktown: TheDominator37, implosion
Weakscum: Annarchy, Bulbazoor, spice1209
Scum: FA_Q2, pisskop, dragonspawn

The WoodyWoodpecker/Boonskiies slapfight is a town on town squabble. GrayFoxxxx towntold pretty hard in the first half of the game. Shazam gave a strong town-tell as well.

I was never big on the MarioManiac4 wagon (I understand the reasons, but they aren't as strong as they are made out to be). TheDominator37 has been fairly townish, though a little milquetoast.

implosion is in the weak town because of a weird vibe that keeps him from being a full town read. Mostly it's the repeated motif where he has to constantly point out "scum-Khan could do that" which is weird that I'm the only one that gets this treatment. I had to look up if we had any game history and we've only ever been in one game together and I was town. If he could give me the reasoning behind this specific treatment I'd appreciate it, otherwise it feels a little like a "smear/discredit the townie" tactic.

The Annarchy weakscum read comes mostly from Necessary Evil. Necessary Evil's posts were lackluster and his read reasonings were vague. Though it could just be unfocused town. Annarchy has a totally different style, which is great, but I don't agree with many of her conclusions, which is bad.

Bulbazoor is a wildcard at the moment. His weird cadence/formatting, the backtrack, the (possible?) responding to old posts.. I can't even tell if english is his first language.

spicer1209 is in the hole that StubbsKVM dug at the moment. StubbsKVM was a weak scumread. And spice1209 is a non-read. So, it's meh/scum.

pisskop could be scum? I dunno? Maybe? He doesn't seem to care to find scum or lynch them. He's the emo kid of this game. He just wants to be left alone.

FA_Q2's Post 724 is the scummiest post I've ever read. It's one thing to hate a 10 page squabble. But finding both participants individually scummy (where if one turns up town, the other must be scum) is ridiculous.

dragonspawn feels like textbook scum coasting. He's not leading any wagons. He's not pushing or making waves. Here's a quick experiment. Without looking at the votecount, someone tell me who dragonspawn is voting for and why.

Spoiler: answer

It's implosion. And best I can figure it's because he's not "impressed" by him.

VOTE: dragonspawn

DS isnt scum, and even if he was he's not lynchable. Your vote is noted and useless there.

I'm actually surprised there haven't been more pushes for me being scum. And I don't see how anyone is unlynchable on day 1.

But I appreciate the vote of confidence

[dragonspawn]

Not sure why it quoted both posts.

[dragonspawn]

I was unaware that I needed to repeat myself over and over again to be heard. See I rather prefer to make an argument once than repeat myself to death. He hasn't gotten any better. None of you have made any arguments that are more convincing to me. I'm not obligated to hunt scum the way you want me to. I will hunt as I choose

I'm not going to compromise on an FA lynch. I really do think its a weak case. If I was going to jump on one of the larger wagons now it will probably be bulb. I find him more questionable.

[dragonspawn]

I was unaware that I needed to repeat myself over and over again to be heard. See I rather prefer to make an argument once than repeat myself to death. He hasn't gotten any better. None of you have made any arguments that are more convincing to me. I'm not obligated to hunt scum the way you want me to. I will hunt as I choose.

You've not made an argument once.

You voted implosion because he explained (or to use your words--"covered") his vote. He explained why he did it in depth.

Six posts later you says that we all need to put pressure on him.

Post 143 shows you re-visiting implosion, ask a rhetorical question, and state your view that he's got a guilty conscience over voting GrayFoxxxx(?). implosion answers your question and explains himself quite well to everyone's satisfaction except you.

3 days later, you're not "impressed" with him and he's your top scumread.

5 days later, you're telling him that you don't care what he thinks.

I mean, it sounds like you've got a super ace in the hole. You're so convince that implosion is scum that you are not willing to consider anything else. That is an unheard of level of certainty on Day 1. And with all that certainty, you make a piss-poor case and are content to wait for people to comb through your iso to find it.

Khan, can we settle for FA today? Dragon, you should hop on too.

I'll hop if this goes nowhere. But I want to call bullshit on people townreading dragonspawn. If dragonspawn had said something like "yeah, I'm not totally into the game, let me change that" then that could be town. But his attitude isn't town. He's going with the flow and pretending to have an opinion on things.

Why would I need to pretend to have an opinion on things when I've been sharing my actual opinion quite frequently?

Why would I say I didn't have an opinion if it's a lie? I don't like lying. Even as scum I try to be as honest as possible. I'm not going to lie and say I have no opinion on matters in clearly giving an opinion on simply for you to townread me.

[dragonspawn]

Your read of ke being scum is wrong. I was attempting to scumhunt with my vote on fA and you know it.

Who is ke?

[dragonspawn]

Ok we have 4 Days left and we need someone to lynch
I'm not a big fan of the fa wagon so VOTE: bulb[/b]

Reread that and I was thinking, we have four days, why do we need to rush behind someone now because of that?

[dragonspawn]

Yes but its obvious that wagon isn't going anywhere at this point. I just haven't decided where I'm heading for sure yet.

[dragonspawn]

So you don't particularly care who we lynch?

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: bulb

Pk is scum becAuse he is pushing your wagon? He very well could be scum but I don't think him pushing your lynch is what makes him scum.

[dragonspawn]

Who exactly outted you?

VOTE: unvote

I'll think it over.

[dragonspawn]

Why would you watch FA of all people?

[dragonspawn]

fuck it
VOTE: Bulbazoor

What happened to not voting a claimed watcher?

[dragonspawn]

Why are you suddenly confident he is scum?

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: bulb

[dragonspawn]

I'm not sure how Anna is confusing or why, if true, it would somehow invalidate the slip.

[dragonspawn]

I'm saying that Anna seems quite clear and even if she isn't clear that doesn't explain any of his behavior.

[dragonspawn]

Also don't ignore his posts about bulb.

I think if there was a busser on bulbs wagon it is Piss

What do you mean a busser on bulb? Bulb flipped town. How can anyone bus a townie?

[dragonspawn]

Also don't ignore his posts about bulb.

I think if there was a busser on bulbs wagon it is Piss

Question

Since we had two kills last night is it possible that we have two scum teams?

[dragonspawn]

I guess I'm confused.

[dragonspawn]

The past few days have been busy. Clearly I need to pay more attention to this game.

[dragonspawn]

Looking over bulbs posts.

He voted for shazam and fa most. They are both dead now

The only other vote I saw was for Mario. Which stuck out more for the weird statements he made to Dom in 1029 and 1030.

Is he implicating Dom to mislead us here? I tend to think he might be, but I'm not sure because I have seen him bus his partners. I need to look.up at where he fell on the Mario wagon. If it was earlier I'm more inclined to think he is setting Dom up. Later, then it may be that the vote was a bus and that his closing statements to Dom were him trying to make us think Dom wasn't one of his partners.

Ill check a few more things tonight.

[dragonspawn]

Ok bulb was the second vote on the Mario wagon. That makes me more inclined to think Dom is not one of his partners.

[dragonspawn]

Naw, I think Boonskiies is scummy with that vote on me. I'm low hanging fruit.

Bulbazoor was trying to end the day early by self-hammering. Scum with day talk don't vote a competing wagon when one of them is trying hard to give up.

This is kind of bothering me. Why would you have been low hanging fruit? Barely anyone was seriously pushing you.

Interesting to note that you were pushing pk for a bit and bulb said to lynch pk today.

This is a good place to start today

VOTE: kk

[dragonspawn]

Not close enough. I saw watcher and for some reasoned missed the mafia part so I reached a bad conclusion.

And it should be obvious why I voted, unvoted, and revoted bulb.

1) we were approaching the deadline.
2) he was flailing around making questionable statements.
3) the counter wagon was fa who I was firmly town reading while bulb, even at best day 1, was null and toward the end of the day was getting worse.
4) I unvoted to consider his claim
5) I revoted when he slipped.

I don't know anything questionable about that.

[dragonspawn]

Because I know fa fairly well. I may not be able to read him perfectly but I was feeling confident that this was his town game and the extent of the arguments against him revolved around his inability to be as active as some people wanted him to be. And looking back it may have also been from scum pushing the wagon as a counter to bulb.

[dragonspawn]

I've honestly given you my reasoning for reading bulb and fa the way I did in response to your posts. What more exactly can I do to address your concerns than to honestly respond to them? And if honestly responding to your posts doesn't make you town read me why should I care about you town reading me? I dealt with people reading me wrong before. Worse that can happen is I get lynched. My life won't end by being eliminated from the game.

So why are you looking for reasons to town read me anyway? If you think I'm scum vote for me. I can deal with it. It's part of the game.

[dragonspawn]

If you think I'm scum vote for me. This acting as though you to town read me and acting like I'm somehow dodging questions when I've addressed the ones you've raise is pointless. I have no control over what you think of me. All I cam do is answer your questions. Which I have.

[dragonspawn]

I can't speak for others but I'm voting kk because:

1) he was voting and making reads similar to bulb
2) he was saying FA was the scummiest he read and then was voting for me while the FA wagon was viable and I was not. An odd choice.
3) was saying he was low hanging fruit to lynch when I didn't see anyone really pushing him at the time.

Is it a slam dunk that he is scum? No. But I feel it's. A good place for my vote at the moment.

[dragonspawn]

Ok, dragonspawn. Let's say i vote you and youre voting me. Is it a viable town strategy to just let our votes sit on each other and not speak to each other until deadline approaches and we move our votes somewhere else because we have no support for our wagons?

I'm quite alright leaving my vote where it is until I

A) see a better vote
B) it's time to consolidate.

Tell me something, why was me moving to bulb a bad move when you moved to me around the same time while scum reading FA who actually had a wagon going?

[dragonspawn]

Ok my reads from D1 after going through Bulbs ISO.

Town

GF
Anna
Dom
Dragon
Woody
Boon
Imp
Spice
KK
Piss

Scum

It's obvious that Piss is going anywhere right now. I want to hear more from KK before decide on a vote. Boon has been quiet too.

I don't understand why piss though.

[dragonspawn]

He did. That doesnt quite change that If Im suspected of bussing dom and bulba how were going to 1v1 you and I though . .

My personal choices today are some T&A for DS and a lynch on Dom.

DS's most recent posts are nowhere near my experience with him.

pedit: A game in which scum VPed on another scum?

I'm not sure how to respond because I'm not sure what you are trying to say

[dragonspawn]

I'm gonna be pissed if Dragonspawn and Pisskop are the scum.

Then you have nothing to worry about.

[dragonspawn]

Cautious town read. Feels like his other town games but I could be letting my personal biases cloud my judgment

[dragonspawn]

He told you why in the post you just quoted.

[dragonspawn]

i will gladly hammer/vote pisskop or vote imp as well. i feel kk will give everyone the most info based off of his interactions with everyone.

Bus a buddy, want to vote the townie...CLASSIC. Implosion is basically confirmed town in my eyes.

Ok why?

[dragonspawn]

Long day, might post later, might not.

VOTE: gray

The Last few posts have had me questioning him.

First, he tells Anna she is the towniest player he sees. The whole post reeked of him trying to buddy Anna.

Next, he is looking to others to direct him where to vote.why? What's the town motivation for essentially letting others do the hunting?

Just doesn't feel right with me. I still suspect khan but this is pinging more.

[dragonspawn]

Also don't ignore his posts about bulb.

I think if there was a busser on bulbs wagon it is Piss

What do you mean a busser on bulb? Bulb flipped town. How can anyone bus a townie?

This post is really telling. I just can't tell what it's saying yet.

??? Really?

That's the towntell post. Scum would know a scum member died but town might be oblivious if they didn't read the modpost closely.

Why suddenly bring this up after he votes you?

So its possible I bussed my scum partner.

But not possible for DS to say that as scum?

This logic hurts my soul.

Straw man alert. Khan has not claimed its not possible for me to say that as scum. In fact, he has been one of the main people pressuring me despite my screw up. And I see no problem with him doing that.

So why don't you tell us why you suddenly bring it up after I voted for you

[dragonspawn]

Also don't ignore his posts about bulb.

I think if there was a busser on bulbs wagon it is Piss

What do you mean a busser on bulb? Bulb flipped town. How can anyone bus a townie?

This post is really telling. I just can't tell what it's saying yet.

??? Really?

That's the towntell post. Scum would know a scum member died but town might be oblivious if they didn't read the modpost closely.

Why suddenly bring this up after he votes you?

So its possible I bussed my scum partner.

But not possible for DS to say that as scum?

This logic hurts my soul.

Straw man alert. Khan has not claimed its not possible for me to say that as scum. In fact, he has been one of the main people pressuring me despite my screw up. And I see no problem with him doing that.

So why don't you tell us why you suddenly bring it up after I voted for you

Tired of going in circles with Boon and KK. It got you to talk to me.

How is a response to my post getting me to talk to you?

And if you want to talk to me just talk.

[dragonspawn]

Grayfox is voting twice

[dragonspawn]

DS, all I really have is town reads on you, except for one wierd Misrep. Can you give input on the current state of the game?

What's your view on Dom's vote?

Don't have a problem with it.

[dragonspawn]

Iso bulb. I wouldn't be at all shocked if his partners bussed him.

[dragonspawn]

Will be gone sunday

[dragonspawn]

No. That's supposed to be boon

[dragonspawn]

Why? In particular what precludes the main d2 wagon from being on scum a priori, as you seem to be implying here?

I'm assuming that you guys aren't good enough to hit scum two days in a row.

This post feels off to me. It almost seems like a scum slip. Because it looks like you consider yourself to be separate from the town.

So why are you saying you don't think we can get scum twice and why don't you consider yourself part of the town?

[dragonspawn]

:S. Who's talking about lynching you? I'm grateful for you replacing in, and I appreciate the honesty, I just want to question assumptions in general.

Fair enough. Remember that I'm not yet invested in this game, and I'll tell you right now I'm just a VT, so if I see something as shit, I'm not likely to take it.

Wait, you are claiming with no reason to as well? Why?

I'm not understanding the town motivation from these last few posts.

VOTE: persivul

[dragonspawn]

As of right now I would be absolutely SHOCKED if Dom wasnt scum. In fact Im going to double check ISO's and give you guys a case here pretty soon. Petty much i thought the Mario slot was scummy and Dom hasnt really helped anything. Ill go into detail more about it once I get my thoughts organized

I said I would follow up on these so here itis.

At first in the beginning of Dom's iso I noticed a lot of posts that are like "I like this" or "I dont like this" A lot of one liner posts. Thats it not a lot of other substance or explanation like that. I as I have said I think not having explanations with your reads is a scum move as I believe that town like to explain so that other townies can understand where they are coming from and maybe share their point of view. So far Dom has done none of this.

I also have seen a complete LACK of scumhunting from Dom. Everything he posts is either reactive or updating you on what happened. I have yet to see him ask GOOD questions and try to find scum. He is basically the guy that sits in the background and adds his own commentary when he feels needed. If he was town I think he would take some ownership and start digging. He hasnt done that.

As for him being on the Bulb wagon I say so what to that. Much like I said with Grey I dont think voting Scum within the first 5 pages of the means shit. Ive played games as scum where we said we were going to vote eachother out the gate to create some distance. I believe mario could have done that just like I thought it was possible Grey did. So when people say that Dom being on the bulb wagon exonerates him I say absolutely not. I mean look at this post from him.

Can you explain your scumread on me?

It's not a strong scum read tbh but to explain it you were a bit wish washy and were eager to jump on a wagon

This is the ultimate pussy foot. There is NOTHING behind this post. This is a scum read that can be easily retracted at anytime but still keeps up appearances. Shortly after this he pulled his vote and placed it on Shazam. People forget about the bulb lynch that he scumslipped. Once that happens scum cut bait with the guy and lynch him. Why stick your neck for a guy thats already dead. I think people are getting too wrapped up in who voted who, instead of looking at what people are saying an how they are saying it. Towards the end of the day he voted bulb, then unvoted, then voted him again. Text book scum move at the end of the day.

So because of all this Im changing my vote to Dom VOTE: Dominator

Good argument and presentation. Ill have to review the thread later to see if I agree with the facts as you are presenting them.

[dragonspawn]

:S. Who's talking about lynching you? I'm grateful for you replacing in, and I appreciate the honesty, I just want to question assumptions in general.

Fair enough. Remember that I'm not yet invested in this game, and I'll tell you right now I'm just a VT, so if I see something as shit, I'm not likely to take it.

Wait, you are claiming with no reason to as well? Why?

I'm not understanding the town motivation from these last few posts.

VOTE: persivul

Specifics?

Specifics on what point?

[dragonspawn]

I'm just trying to figure out why a townie would claim vt with no prompting or pressure to or why he would separate himself out from the town. I mean he did explain the bad wording but I'm just not sure at the moment why a townie would be doing either. That's all I meant.

[dragonspawn]

He is replacing because we are asking him reasonable questions?

[dragonspawn]

Unofficial vote count?

I've been on both gf and kks wagon today. Not sure which one I prefer at this point. I'll think about it.

[dragonspawn]

I don't think that's at all likely.

[dragonspawn]

Has kk claimed?

[dragonspawn]

I'm not sure I want to hammer kk.other than boon it looks like it's. A wagon made totally of people I've been suspicious of.

VOTE: gf

[dragonspawn]

Self hammer? :/

[dragonspawn]

Spicer and Boon tomorrow.

How about we wait to see who is still alive before we decide who to lynch

[dragonspawn]

He already hammered himself dom

[dragonspawn]

Well more town hits.

I'm going to think about this I'm betting scum was on the last wagon.

[dragonspawn]

But if we aren't in multi ball we aren't in lylo are we?

[dragonspawn]

Why did we need the vig to claim?

Why did you kill those two?

I will be gone today

[dragonspawn]

Also, why the hell would I claim back up 1 shot vig as scum. That's a horrible claim.

Because its the only thing you CAN claim. The vig came out so you cant claim vig and what other town role other than cop has a gun. You had to claim something. Its a horrible claim but its all you have. You cant weasel your way out of this.

Ill break it down like this.

You can believe Boon's claim about how he is the 1 shot back up vig, I am the scum gunsmith, and that the scum has all these investigative roles. We lynch me today and I flip town and at night another townie dies putting us in a 3 town 2 scum situation

or

You can believe that I am the Town gunsmith and got a 100% factual read on Boon that he has a gun after which I waited to reveal after the vig came out. We lynch Boon and he flips town and at night another townie dies putting us in a 3 town 2 scum situation.

Those right there are the two worst case scenarios. Now under which situation would you rather be in a 3-2 LYLO? The one where you believed a result in which even the person who was investigated says is true. Or the situation where you believed the person in question is a back up one shot vig and the person getting the results is the second investigative role on the scum team.

That's not the only role he could have claimed with a gun. Just saying.

[dragonspawn]

I'm not voting spicer. I believe the claim.

I haven't decided about boon though. If he was faking he could have faked a better role and maybe gotten someone to out themselves with a counter claim.

Going to have to reread everything before making a final determination.

[dragonspawn]

I see no reason to presume either of you are lying

[dragonspawn]

Why do I have to make a call between two townreads when the day barely started?

[dragonspawn]

I want to lynch implosion. Wait and see what happens with the pr roles.

VOTE: Implosion

I know it seems random from everything we are discussing but I just feel like we will find scum there.

[dragonspawn]

I dont have anything against a mass claim but I'm not sure its really the best option.

[dragonspawn]

Why are you so eager for a mass claim?

[dragonspawn]

I'm vt.

So where does.that leave us?

[dragonspawn]

It doesnt matter. DS and Doom are too much of VI's to make the right call. Im sorry but I said it and its probably the reason anna was killed

If I was so vi I would have lynched you guys instead of pointing out that you could both be town.

Anna was likely killed because absolutely everyone was townreading her.

[dragonspawn]

I'm liking implosion at the moment. Let me think this through.

VOTE: unvote

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: pk

I don't like the other wagons right now. I'm meh about this one. I just don't see the point of lynch ching claimed prs

[dragonspawn]

Why are you so eager to have boon killed?

[dragonspawn]

I'm not sure what to think at the moment. I really wasn't scum reading piss it just didn't seem prudent to lynch claimed prs.

I'm going to do some rereading. Maybe tonight. I just don't know when ill have time otherwise till the week begins. We don't need to rush this thing when we probably have one left.

[dragonspawn]

This is still wrong because I came out firing against fox and the only place where I was reserved was when I was reading the thread.

Why is that post scum boon? You can't just quote a post and say "LOOK HE IS SCUM" without saying why. I'm not laughing im shitting bricks because I (no offense) have no faith in Dom or DS to come through in this moment and pull it together and make the right call

There's no way a town gunsmith would come in, and not think about possible outcomes for their results. Sorry. And you aren't even a little bit WIFOM'y about the potential of a Mafia Doctor being on the scum team with all these a Vigilante/back up vig? Okay. LOL.

Why did you bring up a mafia doc here?

[dragonspawn]

This is still wrong because I came out firing against fox and the only place where I was reserved was when I was reading the thread.

Why is that post scum boon? You can't just quote a post and say "LOOK HE IS SCUM" without saying why. I'm not laughing im shitting bricks because I (no offense) have no faith in Dom or DS to come through in this moment and pull it together and make the right call

There's no way a town gunsmith would come in, and not think about possible outcomes for their results. Sorry. And you aren't even a little bit WIFOM'y about the potential of a Mafia Doctor being on the scum team with all these a Vigilante/back up vig? Okay. LOL.

And above all spicer is deeeefinitely town unless somehow it's a 2:11 and odds of that seem nominal to me. I suppose it's also possible that dom is an sk but that seems relatively unlikely. Actually it's impossible unless boon is scum of course and if that's the case then lol because there's no way that all we have is a rolecop and a gunsmith.

Our claimed town power is a rolecop (weak investigative), a gunsmith (strong investigative but weakened especially if we have two false positives and possibly false negatives), a 2-shot vig (medium-strength killing), and a 1-shot backup vig. Balance wise I think odds are pretty strong that boon is town. Which means that I think we should be focusing in the VT claims. dragon should be ignored at least today because of the spicer clear (I also do think he's town irrespective of that). That leaves me in a position of thinking that the scumteam is probably pisskop + Titus by PoE, which seems reasonable to me.

Has this changed since the flips? And if so why?

[dragonspawn]

Thinking it over and reviewed the posts.

1) fire and I are obviously town. Spicer cleared me and fire/dom claimed vig. As no one counter claimed and boon is claiming back up fire is obviously it and town.

2) implosion likely isn't scum as he would have mislynched one of the two prs yesterday rather than voting for his partner. I don't think he is bussing.

3) It's either Titus or boon.

4) we have one lynch to err so we could just lynch both.

5) I'm leaning scum on boon just because he brings up mafia doc, has a gun, and stays off his partners wagons. The only thing holding me back completely is that it is likely for him to be town if we have the mafia doc.

So question for boon and Titus, which one of you should we lynch first?

[dragonspawn]

So should we lynch you or Titus first?

[dragonspawn]

I'd like to hear Titus's answer as well

[dragonspawn]

Trying again

VOTE: boon

Sorry buddy. I have to go with my gut

[dragonspawn]

Well I feel better about killing my best friend now lol

[dragonspawn]

Yeah I played a terrible game. I was only involved with lynching all three scum.

[dragonspawn]

Better to be prudent and join at the end than to not join at all and pretend as though that is meaningful.

[dragonspawn]

Btw how am at all responsible for kk being lynched?

[dragonspawn]

Btw how am at all responsible for kk being lynched?

You aren't. It took multiple people to lynch him.

And none of them were me.

[dragonspawn]

First of all, Dragonspawn, what was with that IP ban?

I'll open up the dead thread, I'll also open up the mafia thread, even though Bulb hasn't gotten back to me about that yet, but I don't think he'll mind. I'll also invite everyone involved in the game, players, replaced players, and reviewers, to share your comments.

I hope you had fun in any case, I had fun modding.

Ask me everything! Comment about everything that's on your mind, balance, my modding, the game, whatever.

Oh and sorry about neglecting the flavour in the end, I was lazy . I still want to do them actually, and I was secretly hoping Boon would last one other day, so I had some more time haha.

No idea what was up with the ip ban. All I know is it wouldn't let me Post for an unknown reason. But it's working alright now. Go figure

[dragonspawn]

Btw boon I could have believed you were a town with a gun but the role you picked to fake claim was bad and then when you started "speculating" that we had a mafia doc and lo.and behold we do it was just too much

[dragonspawn]

I mean, I read the dead thread, and yes, Spicer/GF both knew I was scum, but I feel from their perspective based on how I was playing it

should

have been obvious. You are in the inside of the feud, and you know you aren't scum, so it makes sense that the other is. From the outside perspective, you can't expect people to see that.


@Dragon - I think that was the first time one of us have ever voted each other, haha.

I think you voted for me in 180 or 181 which ever one we were in together.

[dragonspawn]

A gunsmith got a gun result on someone who wasnt the vig....it should have been nothing but obvious

And yet cops have guns too. You were lucky this game but if it had been a different set up you could have outted a cop to the scum.

[dragonspawn]

Because I don't rush to conclusions before analysis I'm being vi?

There is no need to rush things and be sloppy.