Mini 1685: BooneyToonz II - Looney Tunes

[Pegasus30]

Pegasus30 replaces DrDolittle.

Acknowledging the replacement. I'll catch up in a bit.

Anything important I need to know in the meantime? Claims? Night action results? Clears? Do we know why there were no kills N1 and N2?

Why is BBT scum?

@ BBT, who are the scum?

[Pegasus30]

Any reason to believe TSO would be targeted for the scumkill N1?

[Pegasus30]

When was the IC outed? If he was outed on D1, I'd expect the N1 kill to be on the IC which makes it rather odd for TSO to have been targeted. If he wasn't targeted, there is good reason to believe he could be scum. Are you townreading him?

[Pegasus30]

So Zebulin, Aneninen, and Pisskop were in a neighborhood? Anyone else with them?

Have there been any other claims so far?

[Pegasus30]

At some point during my skim, I read that BBMolla claimed lyncher. I don't know if I'm just imagining it or misread something. Can you clarify?

[Pegasus30]

Okay, never mind then. Did you read through the flipped scum ISO? Any deductions from it?

[Pegasus30]

I'm just a stupid-fuck idiot-town ruining this game by sheeping Obv-scum TSO and RC, right?

Why is BBT scum? If you already mentioned this, feel free to link the post where you explained it.

[Pegasus30]

I've only read 7 pages so far but I'm pretty sure RC is town. Interactions with Salamence don't look like scum to scum.

[Pegasus30]

Let me be blunt, Pegasus: scum are playing in a very mediocre fashion. The reason this game is not over is the sheer inefficacy of the town. In particular, Dolittle did not help us. This game is an open-and-closed book: it's very simple. Either you believe me, and my version of events, or BBT and his.

Considering I haven't ruled out you/BBT as the remaining scum, it is not an either/or scenario for me. Your predecessor was quite scummy but I'll try to get a better read here after I catch up to the point you replaced in.

[Pegasus30]

I agree with T S O.

When two people view a game so differently it's usually because they're different alignments.

T S O suddenly piping up when he has someone to convince to join his wagon should also be noted.

When I asked you who's scum, you said nothing about TSO. How are you so sure now?

[Pegasus30]

Don't worry, I'm town.
Boonskies put me in a masonry.

I don't know why the fuck you outed us but confirming that me and Varsoon are part of a masonry.

And the mod told you that everyone in your "masonry" is town?

[Pegasus30]

And I don't really think Varsoon is scum either. Voting Salamence at the beginning solely because he was sheeping the IC is the type of thing that gives him no towncred. I think if he was bussing, he'd do it in a way that looks better for him or take some sort of credit by calling Salamence scum.

[Pegasus30]

I think Salamence is L-1.

Intent to hammer

Do you normally prefer days ending early? Why an intent to hammer this early in the game?

[Pegasus30]

2-Shot Jailkeeper sounds pretty fake tbh.

Final reads?

Why exactly?

[Pegasus30]

Where did you see scum claiming X-shot roles in recent memory?

[Pegasus30]

PEdit - I read around the site. Can't really say more.

There are no completed games at all that corroborate this? You said this a month ago.

[Pegasus30]

Molla/Varsoon/Massive.

Lynching in these three. RC/pisskop might be scum trying to muddy the waters. We sort the original neighbourhood out first and go from there.

Will catch up on this game at some point.

Why are you adamant about lynching in a neighborhood?

[Pegasus30]

That's a possibility but really we should probably just ignore the hoods.

I think this is exactly why the whole neighbourhood thing has exploded. An attempt to confuse and distract town.

We should focus on the original neighbourhood and go from there.

Explain this as well. Why the original neighborhood?

[Pegasus30]

Getting a townvibe from BBMolla somewhere around page 20.

[Pegasus30]

In fact RC, Varsoon, BBMolla, and EPM all look town to me. That leaves BBT, TSO, and Massive.

[Pegasus30]

Massive and RC are scum.

Scum are massive and T S O.

You're welcome.

If you were so sure of TSO, why not mention TSO before when I first asked?

[Pegasus30]

BBT, I don't know what made you change your mind from Salamence being scum D1 to pursuing other targets. You declare intent to hammer, then you call his claim fake, and then suddenly decide you want to lynch in the neighborhood, call Varsoon's Salamence vote bad and in general take a completely different direction to what you were doing earlier and nothing at that point is clear to me.

[Pegasus30]

And the JK didn't know Sala was conf scum on D1?

This is that deflecting rubbish I was talking about.
TSO brings up legit points; BBT deflects to something unrelated or tangentially related.

Also, it's clear that BBT's pushing for a TSO lynch now that you say you're considering TSO scum.

Who's scum with BBT?

[Pegasus30]

I haven't reached D2 yet but can someone give me a rundown of how the Salamence lynch occured? Did Mainez just counterclaim him and push his lynch or was it organic?

[Pegasus30]

Why EPM?

[Pegasus30]

Around page 30, BBMolla posts are unlikely from scum so I'm more solid on this read.

@ Varsoon, you think scum would sheep his partner? What about EPM's interaction with Salamence was scummy?

[Pegasus30]

Spoiler: Salamence's mega post

Reread Pt. 1

I decided to do an entire reread for yall because there is a lot of clutter to go through. First things first, I'm not going to bring up the topics of hoods/masonries. Its all just cluttered nonsense that isn't important until we see flips, so any read that involves the reasoning that "x is in a hood with x," I'm ignoring because its pointless to otherwise. Setup Specing isn't something we can do at this point either without OUTING MORE roles than we have already given scum. They already have neighbor WIFOM on town and knowledge of a JailKeeper, so maybe its best to actually scumhunt than spec right now.
The first thing to note rereading this thing is the argument that got the game going, the BBT wagon, which consisted of RVS votes from Aneninen, Dr.D, RC, BBB, and yeah, obviously it stopped after I (incorrectly) claimed a speedwagon L-2, when it was L-3 and well i got nothing about that, do as you will. But defending? Is it really defending? Because more and more I see it I don't see it as defending BBT because as I said earlier, I didn't have a read on BBT other than it suddenly picked up alot of votes, especially lackluster ones from BBT and RC, who both were my scumreads at that point, more on them later. Back to the game, if you look back from the time I claimed BBT wagon L-2, and my next post, nothing but boring fluff from PK and RC mainly, (a little bit of actually hunting between massive/BBT for what its worth. Dr. D asked me if the wagon (built a little too fast for my liking) was justified, and no its not. I personally think it still was a fast banwagon and 1-2 scum probably lulz their way into it. I'm willing to bet my life savings into saying the obviously annoying RC and the equally as annoying PK are not scum together for sure. Also the OMGUS from RC was cute because my vote is "Nonsense," and dumb (fluffy) justification of her vote by saying she catches scum all the time based on OMGUS, and frankly I don't believe it.

You know what, lets talk about RC right now, because RC's 77 posts (should have been more if not for V/LA), are soooo dull and anti productive. The first post from RC that actually has some non-RVS content (IMO) would be her TWENTY THIRD POST! #136, where she votes me. 24-30 are nothing. 31, votes varsoon because shes a troll, then an hour later votes me again. I call her out on it, and that for some reason indicates me being scum because RC wants to run around doing whatever she wants. Votes come in from Mainez and Varsoon, Mainez is chainsawing RC, and Varsoon is following the IC. Dr.D comes in with some trolling, and right after comes RC with another one of her dumb "watering down the fucking thread" posts that do nothing but make the game a pain in the ass to reread. IDK what to think about EPM's vote, but it bugs me and smells like an excuse to hop on the ML. PK, oh god PK, we will get to him last, but let me just say he has thrown games for town when I played the last time with him a few weeks ago. BBT ready to hammer just like that, showing how speedwagons work, but whatever, I out a PR, gg folks. Then we have some interaction from PK and BBT over the claim, which, idk, I tend to ignore PK doing things because hes annoying. PK then votes BBT and BBT votes me again, after 2 pages of arguing over the claim because... Mainez said so? WTF?

Then Anen goes into the masons/IC setup spec which is stupid because outting masons is pro-town, even if they are lying. YOU DONT LYNCH PRs UNLESS YOU HAVE A CC. THE FUCKING END. BBT thinks Mainez is JK, and if so, then you out and you get a mafia. I know that aint the case though, so why you think she is, I have no fucking clue. BBT goes out to ruin the game by outing hoods because fuck this game. BBB is dumb, who cares. EPM is dumb as fuck for unvoting and not voting a hood member even though he says he needs to deal with the hood situation (Because there is no such thing as a all-town hood). FOR FUCK SAKE THE NEXT PAGES ARE DUMB SHIT BY BBT/RC/PK ABOUT HOODS AND HOOD LYNCHING. THIS IS ANTI-TOWN AND SHOULD BE NOTED AS SUCH. FOR FUCK SAKE THIS GAME WILL HAVE 200 PAGES IF THIS DOESNT CHANGE FUCK. BBMolla goes over some spec himself that doesnt help anyone, but apparently that and his mason fakeclaim, which isn't stupid as I have seen it before, get him lolwagoned now, INCLUDING A NAKED VOTE FROM PK AND AN OMGUS FROM VARSOON OR BBT WTF!!!!!!! oh wait, he changed it to Molla, perfect.

Molla is town. End of story, no scum is gonna spend a shitload of time on meta'ing his fucking fakeclaim, and I said it before, I have NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER seen Molla freak the fuck out, and I have a cop guilty on his ass, and he still acted like he didn't give a fuck. Molla is town. End of story.
Mainez and PK still piss me off.

ZEB Molla vote, fuck man. Yeah, thats willing of a vote.
Even with town Molla on Varsoons wagon, just not feeling it.
EPM's scumread on Molla for calling everyone morons was dumb.

He's pretty intent on insisting that he wasn't defending BBT as opposed to increasing the certainty of his townread on BBT as scum usually do when they defend a townie so that makes me lean more towards BBT-scum.

Also, his insistence on policy-lynching RC makes RC pretty town.

[Pegasus30]

His certainty that BBMolla is town bolsters my townread on BBMolla a little more.

[Pegasus30]

Jailkeeper/Roleblocker's a pretty scum-sided role regardless.

This is one of the things that make me lean town on Varsoon. If Salamence was Varsoon's partner and he was trying to bus, he'd be more likely to use good reason like calling the claim fake (it was) rather than speculate about it being a real scum JK.

[Pegasus30]

Salamence, if you find yourself unable to keep your play game-related, you can replace. You don't seem particularly invested anyway.

Could potentially see a scum player asking his dead-weight partner to replace out so he can get a better one.

[Pegasus30]

This chain of events doesn't make any sense from Salamence-town, unless I have grossly overestimated his ability as a mafia player.

VOTE: Salamence20

Why not?

[Pegasus30]

I knew you were CC'ing D1...

I knew it and you let Sala off the hook. What the fuck?

If you knew it, then why did you let him off the hook?

[Pegasus30]

VOTE: Mainez

Okay so I'm a rolecop and Mainez isn't a Jailkeeper.

Was this a gambit?

[Pegasus30]

On page 80 with the D3 lynch. The amount of spam this game is terrible.

Not seeing EPM scum. BBT's reaction to the counterclaim seemed townish. Think Massive is a pretty good bet for scum just based on being mostly disengaged from the game.

[Pegasus30]

The likely thing is that scum did kill and they decided to kill me. That's not arrogance, I die early as town the majority of the time. If I was scum, I would not kill. Let someone like Salamence do the dirty work.

Substantiate this with links to games.

[Pegasus30]

I'm non-consecutive night cop by the way.

VOTE: Varsoon

Inno BBT, guilty Varsoon. All aboard!

Is this a gambit as well or are you serious?

[Pegasus30]

On page 95 and the amount of spam is a bit too much. I'll catch up in a bit and post my reads but outside a couple of townreads, I don't have strong opinions elsewhere.

Massive has done the least to make me think he's town.

[Pegasus30]

All right. Caught up. Reads:

Town:
BBMolla
RadiantCowbells

No idea:
BBT - although I think his complete frustration and rage in the last tens of pages reads town. Interactions with Salamence are bad though
TSO - self-confidence that he'd be killed N1 reads town
Varsoon - I'm conflicted here. The gambit was terrible. I wouldn't argue against this lynch but I'm not confident it comes from scum
EPM - Mild townvibes from some posts but I could be wrong easily
Massive - Has given me no reason to think he's town

UNVOTE:

for now if my predecessor had a vote somewhere.

Can we lynch Massive?

I'm willing to go with Massive or BBT. Preferable Massive. But if everyone is set on BBT, I'll vote there to move the game forward because of Salamence's interactions.

[Pegasus30]

@ Mod

, can we have a votecount?

[Pegasus30]

My problem this game has been that nearly everyone has done something that's at least superficially town. The only people I think are town beyond just a superficial level are RC and BBMolla.

I wouldn't at all discount Varsoon/EPM being scum. My feeling is that TSO and BBT are both so certain of each other and that kind of certainty is something I rarely see coming from scum. I'll go along with a BBT lynch and hammer him to narrow down the pool a bit but I don't feel great about the chances of him actually flipping scum.

But, if he's alive tomorrow I can't see anyone changing their minds either.

[Pegasus30]

It's about utility. Swinging the lynch from you to mislynch another townie (and considering how big my pool of non-townreads is, I wouldn't discount that) would just cause you to be the MYLO mislynch for a town loss. I'm thinking about what's most optimal for town at this point.

[Pegasus30]

VOTE: BBT

[Pegasus30]

Fucking finally!

He pretty much said he was town...

[Pegasus30]

Can we discuss stuff on the assumption of BBT-scum here?

No. But I'm happy to discuss who's scum under the assumption that he's town.

[Pegasus30]

No, of course they are not my reasons for town reading him.

I don't need to go through the effort of explaining reads now though. EPM is town. Molla is town, RC is probably town.

Explain EPM town. I agree with the other two.

[Pegasus30]

Okay. Somewhat surprised I survived the night. Going to think more on this game in a bit.

[Pegasus30]

My vote's probably going on TSO. I don't like the way he continued to assume BBT was scum after the lynch happened and BBT said he was town. Conf-bias, sure. But scum are way more likely to continue to pretend they don't see that the lynchee was telling the truth about being town and would prefer to just browbeat their analysis back.

[Pegasus30]

Why?

[Pegasus30]

one more NK narrow the game down.

Letting the IC get killed won't narrow anything down.

[Pegasus30]

I'm going to try and re-read and eliminate scum pairs in a bit.

[Pegasus30]

RC + Massive

- Eliminated based on Post 2810, Post 2818, Post 2820, and Post 2821. Could have hammered EPM as TSO and Varsoon are on him.

TSO + EPM

- Eliminated based on Post 2812, Post 2813, and Post 2817. Could have hammered Varsoon as RC and massive are on him.
TSO + RC
TSO + Massive
TSO + Varsoon

Varsoon + EPM
Varsoon + RC
Varsoon + Massive

EPM + RC
EPM + Massive

[Pegasus30]

Will make more substantial posts on this later on. I'm strapped for time at this point.

[Pegasus30]

Will make more substantial posts on this later on. I'm strapped for time at this point.

This will have to happen later but we have plenty of time so I'm probably going to go through the thread again. I've been putting off this game due to the amount of pointless arguing and it isn't something I've been looking forward to.

[Pegasus30]

TSO + Massive is my guess.

[Pegasus30]

Welp.
GG unless it's TSO + Massive.

I don't think that's been set in stone but that's my best bet. There's so much noise in this game, I'm feeling discouraged from re-reading it but I'll bring myself to do it before deadline.

[Pegasus30]

I think you should look at your own play regarding BBT.

[Pegasus30]

Intent to hammer.

[Pegasus30]

Do you really think TSO is scum?

[Pegasus30]

So, why are you trying to lose the game?

[Pegasus30]

So, you are that certain EPM is town?

[Pegasus30]

VOTE: TSO