STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Reasonably Rational]

"The game can't be broken by flavour". That is scum's fakeclaim. All the town slots we've seen so far have made perfect sense flavour-wise, and I refuse to believe that a literal monster of the week slipped in there. It is total BS and you all should sheep me pronto.

Do you think the centipede thing Steven befriended which then saved him could be town? That's a literal monster of the week, and a very strong argument could be made that such a creature would be town, if we're arguing flavor.

If we're arguing flavor about the lighthouse, the lighthouse was clearly reacting to Rinaldo's emotions about Lars. Unlike all the other monsters, it was not focusing on attacking the closest Crystal Gem. Strong case there that it's actually *not* a hostile creature. And even if it were arguably one, it is ABSOLUTELY a "beach city resident," considering it's afucking building that exists in beach city.

Your flavor idea is bad and you should feel bad.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I rally can't keep track of this game, too fast and too complex,

not enough town enthusiasm as well.

I'd be down for frogger, or mastin lynch, call me when dead line happens or something actually interesting takes place.
I mean, the fact that I got ninjaed by two 1 lin e posts that say nothing is really telling

What the hell does that even mean?


Ricastle: Do you think that scum would be monsters and claim such if it were such a simple way to identify them? Like, seriously? You think TW wouldn't bother wiki'ing their own role and seeing it might be suspicious, and NOT CLAIM IT TO YOU. Or that if it were so obvious, that they wouldn't have a fake claim to use instead, in which case WHY WOULD THEY CLAIM IT TO YOU. I mean man. That's like. Totally what scum would do right.

....

-Cerb

pedit: I think it would just be policy to lynch cooldog. I fucking hate his play so much, but I don't *think* I can point to scummy things. Is announcing intent to lurk scummy?

[Reasonably Rational]

Really....I am conftown , I am conftown ... oh wait I am conftown but nobody can see it but a certain person.

There is a form of being conftown like this.

Two, actually.

I said I was conftown because of one of them.

Saying that it has to be revealed in order to exist is incredibly narrow-minded.

It's not that I can't reveal it. I WILL be revealing it. And it will be today. It's that there's something I'm discussing about the finer points of it.

And believe me. When you see it. This won't be a lame-ass SMITE reveal.

You never gave a satisfactory reason why Hermit is so high on your town list.

Yes I did: their posting has been ridiculously,

ridiculously

town,

and

the wagon on them sucked.

Hi Mastin. It would be awesome if you could, like, try to prioritize this game a bit. kthxbai.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

"The game can't be broken by flavour". That is scum's fakeclaim.

You're underestimating Titus by the way. I wouldn't put it past her to pull a stunt like that, especially if she doesn't have a fakeclaim.

Cooldog deserves death for the push on me, the Mastin vote today, and the bolded.

Why wouldn't she just, like, not claim to you though? Claim role, rather than name, perhaps, or something? Underestimating Titus(and TSO) in that the two of them would be "next leveling" us here, and making said play precisely because it doesn't make sense as scum?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I asked, quite clearly, for the case against Fro99er.

Literally half my iso is a case against Frogger.

No, quite seriously, iso me. Search for Frogger. Then search for Fro99er because I alternate in spelling. Finish off with Raging, and then Ra9in9 to fill in the gaps. I can quote that if you want, but there's a reason I said I'd murder Maxwell after he asked this same question.

Sonic didn't even get close to all of the points against Frogger; he just got some of the more recent ones.

Well, the parts of your case against frogger that are based on ascetic/gladiator mod meta BS? Yes, the part you kept going on and on about at great length? Yeah, that's a terrible theory. Unlike Drixx, I was actively here yesterday, so I don't think I was running the reread risk of missing things, and nothing about your case against frogger seemed worthwhile. Like, nowhere close to it.

I'm looking for reasons that aren't based on froggers "scum meta" or varsoons "mod meta"/past experiences you know he's had with other setups that you think he stole things from. Like, say, things which would be identified as scummy if performed by an individual whose first game this was, whose name is Trafalgar. What, has Trafalgar done this game, as a player in his first game ever, that makes him scum?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastina do you get your vote back tomorrow? Help me with it.

No,

I'm voteless the whole. freakin'. time.

It's presumably to help counterbalance the power of the conftown-on-D3 bit in my role. (I'd claim, but I'd rather keep the scum guessing. I'll be conftown tomorrow; the method matters just enough that I'm keeping a tight lip on it.)

I just rolecopped them and Varsoon sent over what Mastina does.

Rolecop. Yes. When I can't see how Skybird would be killed without a rolecop result on them.

I don't doubt that the role is real, though, so I suppose no point in hiding that

I do get my vote in certain specific circumstances

. Which I will not reveal. The other bit, though, most definitely should stay hidden.

Hmmm

Stop it, mastins town as fuck. She clearly never intended to express when and why she would get her vote back(I have some suspicions about that), so it makes perfect sense for her to say what she said then. She's only saying anything about getting her vote back because she was rolecopped. Taking the action either alignment would in said scenario is alignment neutral.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin, I would really appreciate some more concrete cooperation here.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

That's a fairly bad reason to not claim flavor, sure. Not scummy. Just a bad reason. TW, why did you claim your flavor to him eventually?

Is her role scummy in your opinion?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I want to flip TW too. Why are TSO and Titus heads acting so differently at this stage in the game? The defending of sonic as town yet Titus saying I'm town but TSO saying I'm scum is weird too. Afraid to flavor claim at first is pretty bad if this game really is breakable by flavor. Mastin makes a good point about the role cop as well.

RR, why are you townreading TW specifically? Do you think your whole D2 neighborhood was town?

Because I have proof of something related to TW's role which has almost no scum utility, period, and which was very unlikely to be utilized by scum in the fashion it was used.

I am very certain that whole neighborhood was town. The only one who may have been scum was bins/constantine, but as I've said before, I don't think they are.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Just to simplify this btw, these are the slots I could potentially be convinced to vote for today. Drixx may disagree.

MaxwellPuckett
vezokpiraka
CooLDoG
grapes
NicCage*
farside22
Thefuzzylogic99
fro99er -Contingent upon a fucking case that isn't based on bullshit.
Sonic X (Hydra; ZZZX & Metal Sonic)
Xtoxm

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Just to simplify this btw, these are the slots I could potentially be convinced to vote for today. Drixx may disagree.


fro99er -Contingent upon a fucking case that isn't based on bullshit.


-Cerb

We know you don't want to vote your buddy. Just do it for the towncred.

So, I've moved from scum D1, to null D2, back to scum?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Frogger who did you fuse with last night?

Us.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Just to simplify this btw, these are the slots I could potentially be convinced to vote for today. Drixx may disagree.

MaxwellPuckett
vezokpiraka
CooLDoG
grapes
NicCage*
farside22
Thefuzzylogic99
fro99er -Contingent upon a fucking case that isn't based on bullshit.
Sonic X (Hydra; ZZZX & Metal Sonic)
Xtoxm

-Cerb

This isn't a very good list.

You'd vote farside? and Vezo?

It's more like the other slots on the list are at a 0% chance of me voting them, because I've eliminated them from having any chance at being scum for various reasons. Prior to vezok revealing that his ability goes away in lylo, I wouldn't have voted him, just on principle because double voters break lylo for scum. farsides super towny, sure, but might be scum(small chance, but it's there).

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

You've already done an alliance with CooLDoG, now you want a fusion.

So you're proposing I allied with my buddy, and I'm fusing with my buddy?

Like, really?

That doesn't even make sense.

It does make sense. You most likely have abilities that we are not aware of.

Anyone look around at the roles in this game and tell me the scumteam isn't juiced as fuck.

Scumteam is juiced as fuck =/= game is breakable by flavor. Just saying.

That's not what he's saying. He's saying that scum team, being "juiced as fuck" could have special abilities etc that come into play by making the clearly suboptimal play of obviously allying/fusing with each other.

-Cerb

pedit: yes, the wagons have been fucking terrible. I'm sorry grapes, I don't like lynching town.

Nic: I'm lazy, I do have stronger positions than that, but it takes less work to just remove the people I don't want to see lynched from the player list so you guys can stop trying to engage me in regards to lynching them.

[Reasonably Rational]

Nic: I'm lazy, I do have stronger positions than that, but it takes less work to just remove the people I don't want to see lynched from the player list so you guys can stop trying to engage me in regards to lynching them.

Alright but you're digging yourself a hole in my view.

There is a 100% chance that your view doe not and will not matter. You will not mislynch me. So it doesn't really matter what you think about my slot.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Just a note: Unless you guys want to absolutely screw over town for the season finale, I'd keep from letting wagons get above L-2 or so(and even that's pushing it imo), before we establish our large alliance/fusion things.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

/me grabs some popcorn to watch the in thread hydra dissonance.

...

no, seriously, stop this guys. Don't blow up the thread with a hydra argument. Go to your PT, resolve this shit, come back, and put your vote somewhere if you really feel you have to, but I really don't think we should be voting for ANYONE just yet, cause...season finale arrangements.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Thanks frogger and trench.

@rr: my issue with mastin is all she has done for 2 games days is hold onto the I will be confirmed town day 3 with prod dodging.
I see nothing town from her this game.
Tell me besides, if you can, what you know or implying should I follow what you say?

You don't think her attempted case on fro99er is town? I mean, i think it's a shit case, but I think it's a pretty town play, seems typical of mastin in her approach to things(for what that's worth).

About the second part of your post, I'm thinking. Not ignoring, considering, deciding how much information it's best to share.

-Cerb

pedit: vezok: From our large PT I had with the TW's, the header of it indicated that none of the members of said alliance were a fusion. That leads me to conclude that yes, portions of large alliance can be fused, with all benefits gained thereof.

grapes: Naw, i think our mafia play styles don't click together well. I'm sure you're a wonderful person and if the occasion ever came to meet outside of this medium, both our lives would be enriched as a result. ^^

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, speaking of constantine. Where is he? Did he invade anyones PT?

TW: I don't think there's any objection to that, though Drixx might be wary now cause lighthouse monster thing. We haven't spoken since this morning and a lot has happened. We need a third too.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Thanks frogger and trench.

@rr: my issue with mastin is all she has done for 2 games days is hold onto the I will be confirmed town day 3 with prod dodging.
I see nothing town from her this game.
Tell me besides, if you can, what you know or implying should I follow what you say?

You don't think her attempted case on fro99er is town? I mean, i think it's a shit case, but I think it's a pretty town play, seems typical of mastin in her approach to things(for what that's worth).

About the second part of your post, I'm thinking. Not ignoring, considering, deciding how much information it's best to share.

-Cerb

pedit: vezok: From our large PT I had with the TW's, the header of it indicated that none of the members of said alliance were a fusion. That leads me to conclude that yes, portions of large alliance can be fused, with all benefits gained thereof.

grapes: Naw, i think our mafia play styles don't click together well. I'm sure you're a wonderful person and if the occasion ever came to meet outside of this medium, both our lives would be enriched as a result. ^^

That horrible speculation crap!
No I didn't see a town mind set. Trying to outguess the mod is the worst.

Well yes, but I feel like you're letting your bias against that method of scum hunting get in the way of noting the fact that she did, in fact, do more than just prod dodge.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin is town. She's explained why the mod hasn't revealed her as such. Holy shit.

Farside, I get why you're not liking her this game, but she's not doing nothing.

Finally, all of this flavour yelling is giving me a headache.

Also, mastin:

If you want a Fro99er lynch, tell us why, because I know there's material for it since there's been Fro99er wagons all game.

I

get

that you're scum, but I'm still going to

MURDER

you.

Nice job taking that one out of context. I was talking to NicCage, who was using a lack of distinction between a fusion based power and an alliance based power as reason for a Fro99er lynch. I said right THERE that I KNOW there's a case, so I was frustrated that he was using that as an excuse. Also I'm frustrated in general by people assuming that this game can be broken by flavour. Frustrated by a lot of things, actually, but whatever.

Anyone care to align with me tonight? Or talk? I want someone to chat with, I'm quickly learning that I make better decisions when it isn't just my own mind. maybe I'd have a good time in a hydra?

How about this one for our third TW? I'm not scum reading him at least, but he isn't in my omg definitely not scum pile either.

Also, Maxwell, hydras are pretty sweet, especially if both heads are actually going to put in as much time as they would for a game normally, instead of just assuming their partners are going to keep up with things for them. Lots of interesting discussion.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin, just a thing to keep in mind: Please keep any reference to mod related stuff out of your case whenever you get around to it...or maybe just spoil it as a potential addendum, whatever. I really only judge people based on whether or not I can find scum motivations/narratives/objectives being pushed by their play in the game in question. That's not something I've seen in fro99er, which is why I fused with him, and why I'm not inclined towards believing he's scum.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Thanks frogger and trench.

@rr: my issue with mastin is all she has done for 2 games days is hold onto the I will be confirmed town day 3 with prod dodging.
I see nothing town from her this game.
Tell me besides, if you can, what you know or implying should I follow what you say?

You don't think her attempted case on fro99er is town? I mean, i think it's a shit case, but I think it's a pretty town play, seems typical of mastin in her approach to things(for what that's worth).

About the second part of your post, I'm thinking. Not ignoring, considering, deciding how much information it's best to share.

-Cerb

pedit: vezok: From our large PT I had with the TW's, the header of it indicated that none of the members of said alliance were a fusion. That leads me to conclude that yes, portions of large alliance can be fused, with all benefits gained thereof.

grapes: Naw, i think our mafia play styles don't click together well. I'm sure you're a wonderful person and if the occasion ever came to meet outside of this medium, both our lives would be enriched as a result. ^^

That horrible speculation crap!
No I didn't see a town mind set. Trying to outguess the mod is the worst.

Well yes, but I feel like you're letting your bias against that method of scum hunting get in the way of noting the fact that she did, in fact, do more than just prod dodge.

-Cerb

Would you let me get away with making one crappy case and do nothing else?
If so please let me know so I can stalk you in a game after this if your town.
I'll be happy to do that.

Anyways I promised vezo is look back at frogger. He made an interesting comment in our pt.

Considering there are people who haven't done anything worthwhile in this game(for example, vezok, who just kinda goes ARGH ARGH X Y Z IS SCUM LET'S KILL THEM BUT I'M NOT REALLY GOING TO GIVE MUCH ACTUAL ANALYSIS OF THEIR PLAY OR WHY I THINK IT'S SCUMMY(btw, I think that's just a matter of us having different playstyles, so I view his content as pretty much nonexistent, but I'm sure it's there for those who have different standards they use to measure such things than myself), I'd say if you want to go for a someone is useless argument, there are much better slots to make it on.

To answer your question, it depends on the game. If other people are being even more useless, then sure, I'd let you get away with it. I mean, look at my slot? What have we accomplished this game? We've talked a lot. We haven't really pushed any slot as being someone we think is scum for any particular reason. We had a little bit of it with cooldog at the end of yesterday, but that's about it. We've expressed a belief that the wagons so far have pretty much all been on town, but we haven't really given alternatives. Other than the fact that we(well, I, at least) post a lot, my contribution to the game isn't notably greater than Mastins.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay I read back and I don't see a good enough reason to vote frogger.

Also

Vote: grapes

Cooldog is another one I'd lynch and sonic.

Quick why on all three? I don't disagree, i just want to hear your thoughts, and see where the threshold is that's greater than the level fro99er is at.

[Reasonably Rational]

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@TW - Whichever of you keeps going after mastin, would you kindly stop it? You already did harm because you are apparently too dense to realize that when I say I'm going to explain it from our end later, that means you should

hold your tongue

about shit until you see what I have to say.


You know what ... got ahold of Cerb to clear this.

Pay attention; this is important.

We are Steven. We knew that Mastin knew who we were and we would find out her role today. I believe Mastin's statement on day one was in expectation that we would get complete confirmation of her. Cerb and I have spent considerable time earlier today going through what we know and have concluded it is nearly certain that Mastin is indeed town.

Yes we have cool powers. No we don't plan to just blurt them out for scum, and any push to get them will be viewed as highly suspect.

Starting at the beginning of the first episode after the first season finale (i.e. - day 5), we may post a Steven Quote in bold and Varsoon will mod confirm us as town. The fact that the quote is Steven's and we'll be mod confirmed town should neatly do away with any scum tactic trying to undermine who we are

.

Protection would be appreciated, especially given the scum team may have a way to bypass one protection but extra layers could make all the difference. WiFoM for the scum to sort through isn't a bad thing either.

@TrenchWarfare - Please stop with the attacks on Mastin. The chances of her being scum are logically as close to zero as the can be without Varsoon having two way confirmed giving us mod confirmation of her alignment.

Also, now is a good time to say that we have several pieces of weak evidence, which when taken together make it very likely that Fro99er is town. The pushes on him are all suspect in my opinion (Cerb may agree or not on this front, but I think he agrees with me that all cases thus far against Fro99er are shit). Mastin gets a pass because she gets cleared, but everyone else is rising up the scum list. After Fro99er got back from the vet, he was quite willing to submit to our questioning, and one particular thing he said simply doesn't make sense coming from a scum viewpoint, on top of the other evidence for him being town.

For the sake of the game state, either Sonic X or Fro99er need to be lynched today, and since we believe that Fro99er is town, then the logical move is to take Sonic X to the gallows today. It's possible that's a Town v. Town situation, but it has read to me like either one or the other of them was scum going back as far as I can recall having formed an opinion on their spat, and since Fro99er has the different pieces of weak evidence plus a personal town read from us, Sonic is like to be scum, in our opinion.

Farside has also made some scummy looking posts today, but they would have had to come from scum who wasn't paying attention to the game. Calling attention to it, but not sure what to make of it... yet.


And so now it should be ridiculously obvious why we sat back and commented but made no threatening pushes on anyone. Our original plan was to keep ourselves a secret until we would just conftown suddenly without warning on day 5; however, the reality that Mastin knows who we are and is being set up to be mislynched when our claim and belief that she is almost certainly town can intercede changes the equation. Despite there being only one kill shot a night, we're already behind because of the first night killing a lovers pair, and we need to start lynching scum ... not chasing our tails in a circle working out old grudges from games long since over.

I expect both wagons to disintegrate pretty quickly now. Anyone too stubborn to get off the wagons after this info dump deserves to be lynched.

And if the scum team has a day kill waiting for us ... sucks to be us.


Love, with warm milk and fresh out of the oven chocolate chip cookies,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

One last thing. Vezok is probably scum. He keeps appearing to be trying to break the game by flavor and pushing townies to the gallows. His double vote going away at end game takes role reasons to exclude him from the scum list away and after that we're just left with worthless content and him pushing townies to mislynches. That's bad. He's probably scum.

Love, still with fresh cookies and warm milk,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Go fuck yourself rr.
None of my post are scummy. If you don't like my comments that's one thing, giving my opinion of mastin is not scummy.
Getting one case from her is not town in my view if that hasn't been fucking clear this game.

Now that's an interesting reaction. Let me paraphrase myself: "Farside has made some scummy looking posts,

but they would have had to come from scum not paying attention to the game

, so not sure what to make of it."

That was 100% reaction test and you seem to have taken it hook, line and sinker. I don't believe it's possible to have reacted to that any scummier.

What's even more amusing is that you were given a hint as to which posts we found scummy with the whole underlined part there, but you immediately jump to your push on mastin as the only reason we would get a scum vibe. Actually it was that you somehow had no idea that we and Fro99er set up our fusion in several messages yesterday which first got our attention.

Also, what's with the profane nastiness? Life got you down? We've got warm cookies and milk. Turn that frown upside down ... it's a

game

after all.


Love, even though we don't possess the correct anatomical parts to "go fuck ourselves" as you ordered,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Farside: what he did in the pt explains why you might believe he's town, but what he's done in thread is fuck all. As far as I see it at least. Mastin town for more reasons than just her play.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

One last thing. Vezok is probably scum. He keeps appearing to be trying to break the game by flavor and pushing townies to the gallows. His double vote going away at end game takes role reasons to exclude him from the scum list away and after that we're just left with worthless content and him pushing townies to mislynches. That's bad. He's probably scum.

Love, still with fresh cookies and warm milk,
Drixx

oh,, yeah. varsoon just ran space dandy mafia with a fucking overpowered scum hypervoter that ended the game so easily and also there was a very noob town mass roleblocker that stopped 2 dayvigs on 2 scum

but i think vezok is town for play

Also, now is a good time to say that we have several pieces of weak evidence, which when taken together make it very likely that Fro99er is town. The pushes on him are all suspect in my opinion (Cerb may agree or not on this front, but I think he agrees with me that all cases thus far against Fro99er are shit). Mastin gets a pass because she gets cleared, but everyone else is rising up the scum list. After Fro99er got back from the vet, he was quite willing to submit to our questioning, and one particular thing he said simply doesn't make sense coming from a scum viewpoint, on top of the other evidence for him being town.

For the sake of the game state, either Sonic X or Fro99er need to be lynched today, and since we believe that Fro99er is town, then the logical move is to take Sonic X to the gallows today. It's possible that's a Town v. Town situation, but it has read to me like either one or the other of them was scum going back as far as I can recall having formed an opinion on their spat, and since Fro99er has the different pieces of weak evidence plus a personal town read from us, Sonic is like to be scum, in our opinion.

this is stupid

are you not going to listen to mastina that frogger is scum? i dont know how else to help you. frogger is sitting there bullshitting "you can't lynch me if you have no case!!" which is a typical scum reaction to being caught but town is too dumb




i can compromise on fuzzy but theres 5 votes on frogger 0 on fuzzy, i'm taking the frog


i can also remove farside. shes remarkably useless and bad here. that vote on me? super bad

Didn't you give yourself an excuse to lurk as soon as we made the infodump? Are you catching up on the thread or doing damage control? I can't tell which.


Love,
Drixx


P-Edit: Insults are the last resort of bullies and morons. Do try and rise above that. We are town reading Fro99er because of our interactions with him, information we have that is weak evidence for him being town, and because every case made against him doesn't stand up to even basic rudimentary logical examination. It doesn't matter that I'm sure Mastin is town. That doesn't make her logically awful "case" against Fro99er actually stand up to scrutiny. It simply doesn't pass muster.

Also ... Vezok's ISO is even more awful than we thought. I'll let Cerb elaborate on that though.

[Reasonably Rational]

RR, are you rational here. how many conftown you know are scumreading frogger? at least 2. AT LEAST 2. Beer and mastina

how many conftown you know are scumreading me? yourself? you aren't even sure yourself. how can you count that.

so are you going to ignore their views because of your own "reads" that arent even based in fact? do you think you are a beter scumhunter than these people combined on an agreed opinion?


its so fucking difficult to lynch scum and you losers are telling me to "look at more scumreads"? screw off.

Being conftown doesn't make you more likely to be right. The reasons mastin and you have presented for scumreading fro99er are, as I've said thrice before I believe, shit. I don't listen to shit logic. I don't follow the lead of people holding to shitty positions on a topic. As I said before, if you want me to believe fro99er is scum, pretend you never played with him before, and this is the first game of mafia either of you have ever played. Show me how he's scum, using just his play in this game, and no other resources. Do that in a logical, comprehensive fashion, and I will gladly hammer the shit out of him.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I am Pearl, last night I watched farside and she was visited only by Frogger

He has lied about his role and is scum. Ricastle can confirm that is what I was going to do.

This, this is interesting. See, this is good stuff.

Fro99er, you might want to explain how you visited someone.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

haaaaaaaaahahahahahahahha all you shitheds

You do realize that in the event your read was right, that does not mean your case was logically sound, right? Just making sure you understand the basic concept that regardless of outcome, the logic you were using was bad.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

The Tyranny of the (intellectually challenged?) masses is why town loses mafia games. The fact that other people disagree with me is irrelevant. I have sufficient reason to believe Fro99er is town, which is all that's important.

@Fuzzy - I imagine the scum team will attempt to kill us, but obviously presuming we're alive on day 5 we will use our conftown quote. There's absolutely no reason not to that we can think of. I'm confused as to why that would even be in question?


Love and Huggles,
Drixx


P-Edit: Hrm ... a night action by Fro99er aimed at Farside. That clearly points to an unclaimed ability, but visitation that doesn't result in death isn't necessarily a scum indicator. Someone visited us and gave us a 1-shot bullet proof vest equivalent. That was clearly something that would show up if said person had been tracked but is just as clearly not scum.

And should it turn out that Fro99er is scum, it had nothing to do with terrible cases using awful logic. Appealing to the actions of a player in a prior game is not logically sound. Appealing to some prior game setup by a moderator is not logically sound. Those things aren't the kind of ground you want to be standing on. You want to be able to make a self contained case, within the actual game, that someone is scum.

This night visitation may be a huge tent pole for an actual case. But as I pointed out, there are night actions which are positive and which would make sense to say nothing about if you have them.


P-Edit2: Well I guess Fro99er got caught by a PR. That, for the record, is actual evidence of guilt. And self hammering. Also, presuming he indeed flips scum and didn't just play against wincon, Fro99er being scum destroys the idea that this game can be broken by flavor. So there's that, at least.

[Reasonably Rational]

Also ... thank you to the

complete morons

who ignored us when we said not to put anyone at L-2. Fro99er had 2 votes to play with and just made agreeing on setting up alliances something that has to happen very rapidly before Varsoon notices and locks the thread. I suggest you figure out who you are pairing up with quickly.

Can you guys maybe at least

try

to act like you have brains going forward? This was entirely preventable and there was no reason to push him to L-2. The people who did the votes that let him self-hammer and end the day early need to be be put to heavy scrutiny.

Also, town protection on us would be appreciated.


With heavy sighs,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Pretty okay with a fuzzy lynch today. Can we have people speak up regarding who did/didn't get an alliance, and who your targets were for said alliances?

[Reasonably Rational]

-Cerb

*sigh*

[Reasonably Rational]

That...makes sense. Ugh. Mastin, did you receive pizza last night?

Vezok: Pleaes unvote. your double vote is, like, not something you should be flinging around the way you are.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, Fuzzy, why Mastin, and not, say, us? Since, ya know, we can actually like for reals conftown tomorrow, and thus confirm your claim with 100% trustworthiness.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

RR
I played agaist Mastin several times so I figured she was most likely be the one who could figure out if this was a Town Fuzz move or a scum fuzzy move....ie she pretty good at reading me though this game not so much

Lars and the cool Kid video- pretty much an out and out claim

Epic rant on eating on tacos,,,,, Claiming Sour Cream. I made sure I added Sourcream to the rant. Also the Fish and Pizza refers to the pizza place

Video- Blowing in the wind (Forest Gump soundtrack) Claiming Jenny

Video- Jerry McGuire( Show me the money) Buck Dewey

like I said pretty obvious

I did I am a 1shot fruit vendor....

Not exact quotes but close enough.....

No Daddy Kisses makes me who I am( Alliance Human)
You need friends to balance out this cynical world

- I get a bonus for allying with gems or Human

I want to see you happy, in the pizza rain- 1xshot pizza vendor that get refilled during the finale if used
Go Planet Earth- Town

Ugh. This guy is terribad town. He didn't even remove the part about the extra power he didn't mention he had in his claim, and explicitly denied.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well, let me rephrase: he added in stuff about something he denied (unless I'm misreading?)

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah. The crumbs are umm. A bit much.
Doesn't make it make any less sense though...
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well, see, the problem is your crumbs were all a flavor claim, which, really, really, is useless. All it does it let you point at those previous posts and say LOOK! I WAS CLAIMING THIS ALL ALONG.

Which does nothing to help determine your alignment.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm here but you're already my friend!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Just for the record mastin, as someone else noted, I was defending Fro99er using the same points as maxwell. Some of your other points...have a bit more weight, considering I've noticed the lack of strong, unique opinions from his slot myself(my first post in the PT with TW today was about that. ^^

Fuzzy: Doesn't matter, I don't think. We were wrong. What's the goal of this question?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, another point, though of course perhaps nobody else did this, but we didn't claim anything to TW in our first PT. If you recall, we had an uninvited guest, and everyone except for tunnel was wary of saying too much while they were there. I think the argument that skybird died because of maxwell is weak, but the arguments based on his play are decent.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Read your own ISO Farside. You referred to the alliance/fusion process as fusion overwhelmingly often. It was obvious to us that you were a gem for a long time. I think we even asked to fuse with you.

I, myself, wanted to sort what it was about my posting style that drove you to hate me with the fire of the sun, and Cerberus wanted to see what sort of benefits we might get from fusing and your subconscious slips had outed you as a gem.

If we saw it, there's no question that someone on the scum team saw it.

Loves,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

The claim wasn't flawed. The reasons why people said it was flawed, were stupid. The character, though not alive at the present, shows up plenty in flashbacks and such, and there are at least 2 episodes where the character is a VERY important and visible element.

Now, the only reason why we shouldn't flavor claim now, imo(considering that the only "main characters" left to be outed are Amethyst and the bad guys), is the proven existence of scum abilities which are effective on some races and not others.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I think that Rose was a pretty poor claim and while we're not guaranteed to find all the scum during this massclaim, I think it will help us. Also I don't think there's any danger in it, as most of the races are out as well. Unless you believe that scum have abilities that specialize in the human or "other" races, which I don't really see a reason to suspect, I think that finishing up flavor claiming will help town a little and scum not at all.

Do you want to just post a neon animated gif flashing "I am scum" mate? It might be quicker.

Go look at Fro99er's role flip and then come back and tell me that we haven't seen any indication that scum can do specific things aimed at people based upon their racial status (Human/gem/other). You won't be able to come and say that. The fact that you don't even seem to be paying attention to huge important things like

role flips

while at the same time are pushing for a mass flavor claim seems troubling.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Yes, we've claimed and we're the show's main character and since the scum haven't found and killed off our protector's yet, we would like to keep it that way. You people pushing for flavor claim are climbing my scum list very quickly, for a couple reasons.

1.) If this game is completely solvable by flavor, then the mod screwed up, and I don't believe that Varsoon is so new to modding that he would make a large themed game that could be completely solved by flavor. So trying to argue that your request is to help win the game is just an irrational argument from the jumping off point.

2.) Hidden in the unclaimed townies are the people protecting us. Tomorrow we get to confirm ourselves as town via mod confirmation in thread, using a quote only Steven would say. With our alliances we've made so far, we have people we trust, and hopefully we can ally with people who haven't yet claimed so they can feel safe claiming to us and we can be a repository of sorts and help the town maximize utility while keeping the scum in the dark.


There is literally

no reason

to give the scum flavor claims to go look up in the wiki and figure out who to kill off. Right now the town has the advantage in terms of knowledge and can continue to gain that thanks to us. All the flavor claim will do is give scum info and give us fake flavor claims from the scum. Fro99er's claim was actually decent for anyone who has watched the show. I would expect the rest of the scum group to have claims that are just as flavor acceptable.

So basically you are pushing to take an action that almost certainly will only help scum. Yeah ... let's get right on that. *facepalm*

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

RR
Yes... but he flipped a scum character. There is nothing so far to disprove the game cannot be broken by Flavor. I do think its highly probuable that Vasoon gave fake claims to make the game very hard to break by flavor but not impossible. I not sure about a mass claim.

Sonic
Ugh....everytime someone outs a power you complain about it not being used on you. In my eyes you still can be scum. Also I ned to be partner with that person to use my 1shot on them. My pizza ability does not need an ally to use. Thought I said that but maybe I forgot. Thought it was implied though

I am confused why Mastin and RR are still alive. Mastin is susposely conf town but wont prove it and RR has claimed Stephen. I would think atleast one would be dead.

I am tired of Mastin clomping around as if she is town without any reason for us to think so. She claimed two days back and nothing.

vote Mastin

Can anyone give me a good reason why Mastin is town?????

Does it make sense for scum to be given knowledge of exactly who the main character is on D3? Basically forcing us the out ourselves and ask for protection? Does that seem reasonable to you?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fuzzy, wtf are you asking for? She isn't fake claiming. Period. She 100% had, at the start of D3, perfect knowledge that our slot was Steven. Why would scum be given that knowledge? Does that seem reasonable? This question is directed at everyone really.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Guys. Set up alliances for tonight before lynch. Like. Unvote if he's at l-1. We also need to resolve fuzzy if we're lynothing max. Plenty of time today still, should get a claim from max too before a hammer.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I would appreciate if no more votes were placed until everyone has alliances set up, including who fuzzy should ally with and "motivate". We're at 4 votes on each of Fuzzy and Maxwell, so an unaware vote by vezok could hammer either if we put any more votes on them.

Fuzzy: I'm conftown tomorrow. TW rolecopped both mastin and xtoxm, and I have reason to believe her results on Mastin at least were accurate. Could she be lying about what she saw on their role cards? Yes. Do I think it's likely? No.

Mastin is more conftown because of a number of factors than just about anyone in this game.

Now, Sonic was pushing the fro99er lynch for days, Nic was just the one who delivered a guilty on fro99er and forced the lynch to happen essentially.

Now, I'm going to ask you this fuzzy: How do you think town could best use your ability? There is no "we'll talk about it." There is no bargaining or anything. It's a simple matter of determining what is optimal for the towns success, and you doing that, because if you don't, I don't see why we wouldn't lynch you...since helping the town make the optimal play, instead of being stubborn, is what you should be trying to do.

TW, I think more than enough has been said in thread about roles and confirmations of things for the time being. Just waiting on Maxwells claim and the alliances to be setup for us to make further moves.

I'm kinda thinking Maxwell, being very familiar with the flavor, is aware that his fake claim is weak, and is thus avoiding making it. That suspicion grows the longer it takes for him to actually make the claim.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Again I cant use that ability unless I ally with someone. Dont know how many times I have to say that. I feel like I am beating my head against a wall with you.
How many times must I repeat that before you listen.You are acting like a little kid who trowing a fit for not getting thier way. Serioussly please stop...it is frustrating btw I would of loved to ally with Ricastle...but I didnt happen and thats mainly my fault

RR
Hence why I am not voting for you yet. I will consider it if you pull a Mastin. I am also considering that TW could be a scum role cop. If I remember right Frog ability claim was true but his role claim was fake. Also Ricastle claimed that Trench claimed Lighthouse Gem Monster in thier PT.
I have no idea if that is true or not. Part of me believes it bc RC flipped town but part of me is in doubt bc of the whole Beer Fiasco

Nic
Are you Pearl or did you steal that role. Ie can you track people.

I have no idea how best to use my abilities the set up makes it a bit diffucult. Maybe Sonic gladitor, or the tracking thing. I need to think it out. I am open to suggestion. I want the town to win

Froggers flavor claim was fake, his role claim was true, except for all his other powers that he didn't tell us about. And yes, everyone understands that you need to be allied to use your motivating power, but what we're wondering is why didn't you push to ally someone like ricastle or sonic who clearly had a usable power, and at least use that time to sort their alignment, and give them back their power if you chose to...there was no effort on your part to make that happen. It seems pretty suspicious that you didn't even try.

Anyways, so do you really think I'm scum, based on my play so far, ignoring the whole conftown thing?

-Cerbg

[Reasonably Rational]

Maxwell has 24 hours to claim or he should be lynched. I've told him so in our alliance. @Cerberus, please pick this up into the hydra.

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm extremely frustrated and phone posting. Not frustrated about the game, more so about my current RL situation.

Varsoon, I'll be V/LA for the next couple days til I sort this out.

Still may have limited phone access, though!

I'm not happy with the fact that this day is 100% ending in a town Lynch, and I blame myself for not being around like I normally am.

Anyways, I'm Watermelon Steven, motion detector. N1 was grapes, N2 Skybird, N3 Fro99er. No actions N1, actions on the other two nights. Not gonna be here again until late tonight so its whatever.

Watermelon Steven is...a weird claim, to say the least.

Farside, his claim isn't a straight guilty, because motion detector triggers if the target performs an action, or is the target of an action, so if you were targeted by something you wouldn't necessarily know you were targeted.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm extremely frustrated and phone posting. Not frustrated about the game, more so about my current RL situation.

Varsoon, I'll be V/LA for the next couple days til I sort this out.

Still may have limited phone access, though!

I'm not happy with the fact that this day is 100% ending in a town Lynch, and I blame myself for not being around like I normally am.

Anyways, I'm Watermelon Steven, motion detector. N1 was grapes, N2 Skybird, N3 Fro99er. No actions N1, actions on the other two nights. Not gonna be here again until late tonight so its whatever.

Watermelon Steven is...a weird claim, to say the least.

Farside, his claim isn't a straight guilty, because motion detector triggers if the target performs an action, or is the target of an action, so if you were targeted by something you wouldn't necessarily know you were targeted.

-Cerb

That is pretty useless role if that is accurate.

Pretty much. Well, in a game like this, it's fairly useless. In a lower power role count game, it's probably way more useful.

It's a watcher/tracker proof fake claim though. Flavor wise, it's...meh? Watermelon Steven appeared in one episode, and was one of a large number of animated watermelons that grew in the shape of steven.

I'm willing to bet MP counts as "other", and others are supposed to be stronger than other roles(generally). We've seen one other "other" claim I believe, Sonic, who claimed a gladiate, and wants people to target him. The gladiate alone puts his role at a significantly higher power level than maxwells claim. That isn't damning in and of itself, of course, but it isn't vindication either.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, we also saw lion, who was a non-consecutive commuter! Hmm. That's still stronger than the motion detector kinda? Hmm. I have to consider. :-/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

We haven't seen any targeting abilities that aren't x-shot yet either, I believe. Even though this role is crappy, I don't think it would break the mould. Correct me if I'm wrong though, I'm too lazy to check all the flips.

the commuter was technically not x-shot

He said targeting. And he was wrong. Fro99er(Jaspar) could target an unlimited number of times, and so could Skybird(Onion).

Hey Maxwell, can you tell us what Skybird stole and who they stole it from? In here or in our alliance PT. Our PT might be better, but, ya know, up to you. Either way you should tell us...pretty bad town play to let that knowledge die with you.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Interesting. So, we also need Maxwell to come back and tell us exactly what his results were(because it does seem like his results were different than those one would expect from a Motion Detector who functions the way I expected them to), on the off chance that we're wrong and he isn't scum.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin, I specifically asked vezok to not vote until we have things sorted with alliances and such. His vote would put max at L-1. It's clear there's plenty of intent to lynch him, but I don't see why we want to just keep piling votes on when there's still information we KNOW he can give us if he's town, and there are still things we should want to have worked out.

What would you suggest regarding fuzzy? He needs to ally with someone who it would be worth motivating, and preferably someone who we already know has a limited shot ability of some sort, so there's no exposure of further information to scum(assuming he isn't).

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm not especially fond of giving more gladiates out. Protectives and investigatives are the things that are least likely to backfire on us, but it's kind of impossible to do so without outing those slots, which we obviously don't want to do.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

RR, there's another benefit to having Fuzzy visit Sonic. Shouldn't Sonic get his refiller? After all since Sonic hasn't used his gladiate since the season finale, it wouldn't get another shot. Yet now, we would have the refill in the hands of unquestioned town.

Hmm. Well, first of all, we don't kow if sonics gladiate refills(Ricastles vig shot didn't), so that's irrelevant. But eh, sure, I don't really oppose that line.

-Cerb

pedit: Okay, so we know it did refill, alright. Timeline wise, from what fuzzy has told us, I would assume your shot wouldn't be refilled until tomorrow night. Fuzzy allies you today, and then if you're in an alliance with him tomorrow, he can refill your shot in the climax...but he might be able to do it during the day, since the demotivator claims to be able to do so during the day.

[Reasonably Rational]

Yep. I suppose it doesn't really matter. Either way, it seems reasonable to have you and fuzzy ally.

So, where are we at with alliances? I hate when people are like "Oh, i'm keeping with mine" because it makes it hard to keep track.

Sonic X(who keeps leaking) and Fuzzy

Who else?

[Reasonably Rational]

That would be the timeline, yes. And, what if fuzzy isn't scum Sonic?
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well, on D1 we had no idea how flavor related to the game. It was entirely possible that, given the relatively small number of "prominent" bad guys, that lars could be scum. It was also possible that flavor was assigned randomly, and was just going to be used in the flavor of the flips. Now, at this point, it's clear that the flavor connection is stronger than just that, which means in hindsight it's obvious that Beer(Lars) was town.

From what we've seen, though, regardless of all other factors, I at least believe it is *extremely* unlikely that vezok is scum. That's just me though, this is another thing where Drixx is very unhappy with the essential flavor clear, which I'm unhappy with too...but it makes sense with everything we've seen.

Basically, there are other slots in this game that are far more likely to be scum, and barring some unexpected flip results, vezok isn't someone we should be lynching at this stage, if ever.

Also, just gonna throw this out there: if scum have any sort of strongman shot, it seems likely that it's usage could be tied to season finales only. It makes sense balance wise in terms of limiting the number of shots, and it makes sense considering I can only become conftown *after* the season finale, thus preventing said conftown from possibly only being in effect for a single day or something without any options being given to town to prevent my death...so...I expect to be dead in the morning. And probably janitored.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

No one hammers till Saturday US West Coast time or until RR says so. If you hammer before then, expect me to vote you.

I would appreciate waiting until then to hammer as well.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Vezo you may as well stay with me.

Actually, farside, would you be willing to ally/fuse with me? After I use my conftowning tomorrow, assuming I survive(which I don't really expect, but, ya know, i'm hopeful) you at least could talk with sure knowledge that I'm town.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

This is my home, and you're all my family! I'm...I'M A CRYSTAL GEM TOO!

Conftown incoming.

Titus, VCA? I know you had it pretty much done even though we didn't get to talk about it.

Love,

Drixx and Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well, we can discuss it in here if you like, but I at least will be heading to bed soon, and it's even later for Drixx but he keeps weird hours.

So, in short, you're welcome to post it, but don't expect any commentary on it from my half of the hydra for 8 hours or so.

-Cerb

pedit: shaddup grapes, vezok was as close to conftown as someone can be without being conftown the way I am. Like, seriously. His flip should come as no surprise to ANYONE. Cooldog is reasonable. Fuzzy is less reasonable given all the conversation yesterday about utilizing his power, which he won't be able to do until tonight. Also, fuzzy has fallen pretty low on MY scum list at least. I have some new candidates, but I'd like to chat a bit more today before talking about that.

[Reasonably Rational]

Nic
So you were killed last night??

I am cleared if NC was targeted by scum... I sent Sonic a piece of pizza. Since players can only perform one action per night. That's if NC was killed by scum and not by a random vig,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's...weak. We don't know how the scums kill functions, it can very easily be allowed for them to send it in as well as performing another action.

Also, I'm not a fan of the short countdown thing Sonic and TW seem to want to do. Let the day proceed organically as normal, when consensus is reached on a lynch, Sonic can gladiate them. Done.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Right now, it's taking everything in my power not to vote Fuzzy. He's spewing bullshit that I don't think anyone rationally believes.

Ditto, but, well....I'm kinda thinking he's not scum anymore. He might be, like everyone else might be, but, man, idk.

Nic cage is a conftown voice now too btw. I'm not sure what review you want me to do in terms of your vca?

[Reasonably Rational]

ok reread the posts/ I thought Ricastle was fake vig.. my mistake. Diesnt matter Sonic is town by VCA, He lynched two scum in a row. That's pretty town in my humble opinion.

I'm personally not sold on sonic town. I was sold before, but...well...the variable triggers he used for his power(who only shared a quote from sonic the hedgehog), combined with the fact that, if intent alone was sufficient, his power would have triggered when he did the bolded fake day kill aimed at ricastle, leads me to suspect there are definitely things going on with him that he isn't sharing with us.

Currently considering a kill less second scum faction, or one that's holding onto it's kills, as a very real possibility.

That would explain sonics Gladiate not making sense, and him still killing scum.

Sonic, have you explained why you want people to target you to anyone other than the person we both know you explained it to?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

if that's the case what do you think of TW? If Sonic kill flips scum than he town if not than we should consider other options. I think we should wait till the bomb to go off and see how the flip goes. Not sure if Sonic wants me to reveal the kill so I wont.

I'm. ..confused by what you're saying about his kill and the bomb. I'm also confused by what connection you think there might be between that suspicion of sonic, and my tw read.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I don't doubt that he can gladiate. What I doubt is his alignment.

And sure, a second faction without a kill might be unlikely...is a second faction that held onto their kill unlikely? What about one with kills only on season finales? Or a killing power that they only gained access to after the season finale?
-Cerb

Pedit: STOP WITH THE FUCKING QUICK LYNCHES YOU FUCKING IDIOTS.

[Reasonably Rational]

And he's scum! Even you agree with this.

Right now, it's taking everything in my power not to vote Fuzzy. He's spewing bullshit that I don't think anyone rationally believes.

Ditto, but, well....I'm kinda thinking he's not scum anymore.

He might be, like everyone else might be, but, man, idk.

Nic cage is a conftown voice now too btw. I'm not sure what review you want me to do in terms of your vca?

[Reasonably Rational]

No, not rolling with shit. That was 4, it's 6 to lynch. Let's stop being stupid and just letting the days end super early with these day 1 piled on wagons. What the hell is the benefit of putting more votes on his wagon when it's CLEAR that we're going to lynch him, if not today, then tomorrow. THERE IS NONE. He's under as much pressure as possible, all you do with those votes is risk ending the day when there's still shit to be said.

-Cerb

pedit: I seem to recall a few people talking about fuzzy always being dumb, and always being an easy mislynch as a result, earlier in the game. Why don't you see that orchestration as a possibility? He's universally townread now. Even more so than vezok, and vezok got killed last night instead of him.

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah, I might be being a bit paranoid right now btw. I still don't like when I see someone halfway to a lynch when it takes so few votes to lynch someone.

-Cerb

pedit: Yeah, fuzzy...perhaps it would be best if you reread the thread. :-/ There's...a lot you're getting wrong.

[Reasonably Rational]

Nic Cage, my conftown buddy who only has his voice but no vote, what are your thoughts on everything?


And yes, the lighthouse is null in alignment imo. Like Lapis Lazuli. Like Centipeetle. It could be used as either alignment, at the mods discretion.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

And I can be sure because I told Varsoon that was not a gladiate so don't activate it even if hes not supposed to anyway

Cool, so what are the exact conditions under which your gladiate is activated...because you know, it's the only one we've seen used that seems to have this kind of wiggle room.

Ricastles vig used an exact quote
TW's two role cops used an exact quote
My conftowning said to post the name of the ability in bold in the thread in order to activate it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, you didn't answer my question. You should do that.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

ayo

vc

DAMN YOUR FLAVORED NONSENSE. Seriously, I like was refreshing compulsively to see what Sonic was gonna say to respond and saw the last post author change from my name to yours and clicked into the thread for no reason out of reflex!

-Cerb

Oh, also, Sonic, Drixx would like me to make it clear that HE was suspicious of Maxwell, even if I wasn't. He seems to feel that if you're scum you're working to undermine any future reads or pushes we might make by pointing to the situations with fro99er and Maxwell.

[Reasonably Rational]

Drixxs first post in the hood was a demand that maxwell full claim to us or be lynched. He was way more suspicious of maxwell than I was.

Wifom is a pretty simple reason for scum not killing me. We clearly asked for protection. If the scum strongman hadn't been lynched, we'd be dead.

-Cerb

Pedit: You still haven't answered my question.

[Reasonably Rational]

ok reread the posts/ I thought Ricastle was fake vig.. my mistake. Diesnt matter Sonic is town by VCA, He lynched two scum in a row. That's pretty town in my humble opinion.

I'm personally not sold on sonic town. I was sold before, but...well...the variable triggers he used for his power(who only shared a quote from sonic the hedgehog), combined with the fact that, if intent alone was sufficient, his power would have triggered when he did the bolded fake day kill aimed at ricastle, leads me to suspect there are definitely things going on with him that he isn't sharing with us.

Currently considering a kill less second scum faction, or one that's holding onto it's kills, as a very real possibility.

That would explain sonics Gladiate not making sense, and him still killing scum.

Sonic, have you explained why you want people to target you to anyone other than the person we both know you explained it to?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

K.

TW: Why would town have two role cops?

-Cerb

Pedit: if you gladiate anyone before I say so(say, within 48h I'll probably give the word), I will probably vote you on principle.

And, when did you tell grapes?

[Reasonably Rational]

@Cerb, Look at the title of the YouTube video I put in chat.

And that doesn't apply to others? You said yourself that if there are two slots wit the same power, you believe one must be scum. I'm just saying your disagreement with me on the subject we discussed in our pt is displaying some cognitive dissonance.


Grapes, I know why he wants to be targeted. Can you give me a non obvious hint about the reason he gave you?

-Cerb

Pedit: farside, pt...what am I missing here?

[Reasonably Rational]

Ya I did. Got it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

"Oh, Steven. Humans just lead short, boring, insignificant lives, so they make up stories to feel like they're a part of something bigger. They want to blame all the world's problems on some single enemy they can fight, instead of a complex network of interrelated forces beyond anyone's control."

-Pearl,

Keep Beach City Weird

VOTECOUNT 4.06: LYNCH

MaxwellPuckett (

LYNCH

):

grapes, Xtoxm, NicCage, farside22, Sonic X, Vezokpiraka, Vezokpiraka

thefuzzylogic99 (2):

St Constantine the Hermit, Trench Warfare

CooLDoG (1):

MaxwellPuckett

mastin2 (1):

Thefuzzylogic99

Vezokpiraka (1):

grapes

Not Voting (4):

vezokpiraka, CooLDoG, Reasonably Rational, Mastin2

With 13 Alive, it took 7 to Lynch.

But you weren't voting him at the end of the day. I mean, if anyone was responsible for maxwell lynch, it wasn't you..or sonic. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Because your argument for me being scum is fundamentally flawed.

[Reasonably Rational]

No. It isn't. I have rolecopped both you and Mastina. I got the same exact abilities for both. There's zero reason for a second three person masonry to appear in a game with two masons already.

Interesting assumption.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Or it's a delayed quasi-masonry (the trick being that we have to logic out whether we can trust them both). We have pretty iron clad logical reason to trust them both.

Love,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

What I'm really interesting in knowing is how you knew they both are in the same chat with us instead of two separate chats, and that it's ongoing when we implied heavily to you that it wasn't ongoing.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Is RR and Far in a hood?

Yep. Sup?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Wait for me to get to a computer. 8 hours.

Well, I'll be asleep in 8 hours, but I'll be awake in 10. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

"Oh, Steven. Humans just lead short, boring, insignificant lives, so they make up stories to feel like they're a part of something bigger. They want to blame all the world's problems on some single enemy they can fight, instead of a complex network of interrelated forces beyond anyone's control."

-Pearl,

Keep Beach City Weird

VOTECOUNT 4.06: LYNCH

MaxwellPuckett (

LYNCH

):

grapes, Xtoxm, NicCage, farside22, Sonic X, Vezokpiraka, Vezokpiraka

thefuzzylogic99 (2):

St Constantine the Hermit, Trench Warfare

CooLDoG (1):

MaxwellPuckett

mastin2 (1):

Thefuzzylogic99

Vezokpiraka (1):

grapes

Not Voting (4):

vezokpiraka, CooLDoG, Reasonably Rational, Mastin2

With 13 Alive, it took 7 to Lynch.

But you weren't voting him at the end of the day. I mean, if anyone was responsible for maxwell lynch, it wasn't you..or sonic. :p

-Cerb

Did you just say that I was not responsible for the maxwell lynch? Are you daft? Look at your own vote.

Misleading post noted. You (and everyone paying attention) knows that the day end was being held for Titus and Cerb to do some chat about her VCA in real time, and Vezok just decided to end the day before that could happen, for whatever reasons. Vezok doesn't strike me as a team player.

I was on Maxwell from the very start of the day and we were planning to hammer with extreme prejudice, as you well know.

Town has no need for deception.

Everyone else except for you has to post precise bolded quotes from the show to activate abilities; however, since you are so special, you get to make up any flavor you want and be a special snowflake.

Bullshit. Not buying it.

I hope you actually have a gladiate so we can quote your scummy bullshit and you gladiate yourself into getting lynched you piece of scum.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

*shrug* looks more like sheeping than pushing to me(I'd need to double check your iso) but it's really quite irrelevant. It's just ego inflation now, and it's not helpful.

Also, Drixx, don't you dare apologize. :p
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

The post wasn't aimed at you Sonic. Second intercession by TW interrupting first Cerberus questioning Sonic and then me pushing him for a reaction ... noted. Hrm...

Picking up the slip.

we shouldn't lynch anyone till the whole Sonic kill works itself out. I am thinking about an x lynch and if he flips town kill TW but I am not sure about that plan.

Fuzzy....Sonic does not have a kill that he's mentioned here. He's talking about killing because he believes if he gladiates someone there's no way that he'd be lynched over them.

[Reasonably Rational]

Nah I'm only a stump for this day phase.

Constantines post have looked bad to me for awhile, though grapes brought up a good point about him being in both Frogger and maxwells lynch pools. I remember maxwell going after bins for awhile too. However, I can't remember who brought it up before, but someone pointed out that bins really put the brakes on the raging bull wagon D1, and was town reading Frogger for pretty poor reasons, while preferring a beer lynch for information. I wouldn't count him out.

I'm wondering what characters would share a pt with steven. I really think a mass flavor claim would be helpful.

Also I agree that it's strange that Sonic's role is the only one that doesn't require a specific phrase to activate an ability, though it's possible that there are no phrases associated with his character.

Another thing I want to mention is that I still think it's odd that TW is the only gem without specific alliance and fusion abilities.

They're claiming that could have been intended to protect Frogger from my setup spec.

Mass Flavor claim pretty please

Where did they claim that? They also claimed in our pt that their role cop was tied to alliances/fusions but they just didn't notice at first.

Also, to everyone: What would be your first assumption if someone displayed knowledge of an aspect of another players role which they had no way of knowing? There is no combination of alliance meetings by which said knowledge could have reached the player, and the information has absolutely not been shared in this thread.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Looking back....after calning down , I never claimed TW to be scum. I said that her character doesnt seem to fit in with being with a beachtown resident. I still think that thier a possibility they are some wierd third party entity . From what I understand and I am prob wrong again but it seems like they are some wierd Paul/ Saul eninty . Reading the wiki page it said that The Lighthouse Monster was acting the way it was bc Lars was writting his name on the walls and it felt under attack bc of this. It was defeated and bubbled
so it could heal. I doubt scum would claim this.

Sonic is a mix bag ...He took down two scum which makes him town however nothing he has done yet as far as his power goes seems to be town. His wierd claims about activating his power does not seem to add up. Than there the two fake vigs he has made, the one on Tunnel and the one he made today. Also there is his claim of being the laser cannon and it waz Ricastle tnat delievered tbe laser shot. I honestly dont know what to think. Claiming laser cannon is a wierd claim for scum bc it automatically draws attention to you .....but as I said his actions as far as his abilitie seems odd. I am very wishy washy on him right now. I dont need a specific phase to use my abilities so thats not the issue....as RR said its the whole sonic thing. The whole thing is wierd and hard to make out.

We know that

Fuzzy...He claimed Light Prism, not the laser cannon. Why do you think he claimed that?

Also, he didn't fake a vig today. He faked a vig on ricastle on D1, but nothing today. You misunderstood what he was saying, but it was pretty clear he was talking about his gladiate.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah. He was saying at a certain point(48 hours from day start is what I think he decided?) he would use his gladiate on Hermit, which he considers killing him because he doesn't believe he would get lynched over hermit.


Grapes: Hmm. Why would one of the two be scum, rather than just the one with the information they shouldn't have? Or even both of them? Also, I at least am dumb and can't figure out your hint. Ah well.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

sorry guys..thanks for putting up with me. Sometimes it takes me longer to understand thing than most people. I am not dumb just kinda slow I also have short memory span.

Yeah I was misunderstanding what was going on. I can see what Sonic is saying,. I had something stuck in my head and it got filtered through that. Am I understanding this right,,,,,
The gladiate ability lets a player picks two players and only the players can vote for those two. The way I understand is that Sonic will be the other candidate, In other word it will be either Sonic or Hermit

Exactly. Assuming nobody convinces him to target elsewhere.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yea you're right. I just misread the question completely I think. lol

Like, I just always assume as an uninvolved third party that if I'm being brought info it's either to push a lynch or stop a lynch. If it's dropped unconsciously it needs to be extremely cut and dry for it to mean much. Legit scumslips are pretty rare.

@cerb

Is the knowledge being displayed twice, and explicitly referred to, cut and dry enough?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm not. Mastina may have scum read Maxwell, but she didn't vote him. Scum buddies often do this to each other to appear town.

The next person to blatantly ignore that there was a request for the lynch to be held until something was done in an alliance chat and try to use that as a reason to go after someone is not going to like me after I get done ripping them a new one.

I'm sure Cerberus will pick up these two posts and attest to the fact that I'm a 25 on a scale of 1 to 10 in grumpiness today. Make scummy posts at your peril. I've got the gloves off and I'm drinking scotch; we might be in for a bumpy ride.

I am gem. Not all gems get special fusion abilities.

Also, what did I not read?

Titus

To be clear, I have fusion OR ally ability. Not fusion only.

@Cerb: This is what I was talking about

Hmm. I don't think the fusion or ally ability thing is odd, I have some evidence that it's happened in at least one other case(arguably, two other cases). What is odd to me though is that TW specifically claimed that on the 2nd, and then in our PT we had, on the 7th they had to go reread their role pm to clarify that they had a power that was linked fusion/alliance specific. You'd think they'd remember that after specifically pointing it out as a defense of someone a few days earlier.

-Cerb

Picking up the hydra leaks.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hmm. I don't think the fusion or ally ability thing is odd, I have some evidence that it's happened in at least one other case(arguably, two other cases). What is odd to me though is that TW specifically claimed that on the 2nd, and then in our PT we had, on the 7th they had to go reread their role pm to clarify that they had a power that was linked fusion/alliance specific. You'd think they'd remember that after specifically pointing it out as a defense of someone a few days earlier.

-Cerb

Well, I'll take your word for it. I think it's something to keep in mind.

The main thing keeping me from outright calling TW scum is TSO's push against frogger at the end of D1, which seems like a very counterproductive thing to do.

Do you know Xtoxm and Mastina's flavor names? I would like to know if they both make sense, because I can't really guess two characters who would share a pt with Steven. I think I guessed Mastina's, but there's no second one in my mind.

I do know both, and Xtoxm flavor claimed as Centipeetle in thread already. You know, the monster from the first episode who Steven accidentally freed and then tamed who sacrificed himself to save Steven?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

There were two night kills and Fuzzy is a motivator. That is what makes sense to me right now.

No townie has claimed to have information on why two people were killed last night. We need to continue claiming our roles and night actions, otherwise we will be in the dark here.

Nobody except cool dog will have anything to offer you. He might. He's the only role remaining in the game that hasn't claimed to us.

Also, unless there had been an extra kill at least once before, fuzzy's motivation power is irrelevant. It doesn't make sense to "motivate" an extra shot of an ability that doesn't have limited shot.

-Cerb

pedit: Ah, yes, I can confirm that that did indeed happen when you invaded us. So, did you go anywhere last night?

[Reasonably Rational]

Being both a motivator and a pizza vendor makes perfect sense for the cool kids, given that the cool kids are comprised of Buck Dewey, Jenny(whose family runs the pizza shop), and Sour Cream(who is a DJ, and you'd think would have the same effect on a PT that you have, actually...), and they, as a group, work to cheer up Steven in Joy Ride.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Sorry Sonic, but I have to reveal what your role does(I mean, not that sorry, because part of this logical process ends in the conclusion that you're only town under very specific circumstances)

Also, yes, we had an alliance with both Mastin and Xtoxm on day 3. In that alliance, Mastin told us that Sonic had informed her that he was a self watcher/copier, so when he was visited by someone he knew who it was and got a usage of their power. She didn't press him for the details about how his power worked. This was never mentioned anywhere in the thread, and there's no connection of alliances that could result in this information getting to TW yesterday.

RR, there's another benefit to having Fuzzy visit Sonic. Shouldn't Sonic get his refiller?After all since Sonic hasn't used his gladiate since the season finale, it wouldn't get another shot. Yet now, we would have the refill in the hands of unquestioned town.

There are two separate things being referenced here. 1) The fact that Sonics gladiate WOULDN'T get another shot.

2) The refill ability being gained by Sonic.

So let me get this straight

Maxwell lynch today
Fuzzy + Sonic neighorize tonight
Sonic gladiates any scum suspect but Fuzzy after we decide who he gladiates tomorrow
Fuzzy refills Sonic

, and gives him refilled ability?

Here, again, TW refers to two separate things occurring, Fuzzy refilling sonic, and Fuzzy giving sonic his refilled ability. I combed my history at least to make sure I never informed them of that power, and sonic absolutely never did, so that means TW MUST have access to information town would not have, therefore TW is scum.

Other reasons TW is scum:

A town role cop already flipped, increasing the likelihood that the other role cop is scum. This is especially troubling given the displayed cognitive dissonance between their slots insistence that one of [Mastin/Xtoxm] must be scum given the counterclaim, when they themselves are the counterclaim to a KNOWN town flip.

They were FURIOUS when we had them "waste" their rolecop on xtoxm. Again, as an exercise in building a town bloc, using a role cop on a slot that would either guarantee finding scum, OR cement someone as town, shouldn't have been something they were upset about. However, as scum, it's reasonable for them to be upset at basically learning nothing.

Assuming TW flips as Yellow Diamond, and their role cop functions as they said it did,

In the set [Mastin, xtoxm, sonic](all those who knew his power, and who are not conftown) there must be at least 1 scum

I have spoilered below the reasons why Mastin/Xtoxm are extremely unlikely to be scum, which leads to the conclusion that Sonic is scum.

Spoiler: Why Mastin and Xtoxm are town

1.) We were not able to conftown ourselves until day 5, the day after the season finale night.
2.) Mastin and Xtoxm both were given our identity on day 3. This posed a dilemma for us, because we had planned to keep quiet about who we were and try to have traps set for scum to spring and then suddenly two people knew who we were and we didn't have knowledge at all about them.
3.) This caused a lot of discussion, which only resolved with the flip of a strongman who could only strongman on the season finale.
4.) It doesn't make any sense for scum to be given our identity before we can conftown and be able to kill us before we can conftown when the only way we could have escaped would have been if A.) Tunnel Warriors was alive, B.) We trusted Tunnel Warriors, C.) We were allied to Tunnel Warriors and finally D.) Tunnel Warriors and we decided to use the commute.
5.) If you somehow still think that there's a chance that this entire improbable scenario is at all likely, and one of Xtoxm or Mastin are scum, then consider that we also count as a gem, and therefore Fro99er could have kept us from forming an alliance/fusion. This means that if Xtoxm or Mastin were scum, there would be no way for us to survive beyond sheer dumb luck, and simply put:

Varsoon is neither that bad nor that bastard of a mod.

TL;DR:

TW MUST BE SCUM.

Sonic is *probably* scum, but if TW's rolecop functions differently than expressed before/they aren't a rolecop(i.e. if it's not a public trigger/has no shot limitation), then they may have rolecopped Sonic themselves, reducing the likelihood of Sonicscum.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

You know if your tl;dr says I am scum it makes me doubt validity right.

Anyway I'll read it later, if I am convinced I will gladiate TW. And I need Mastina to say stuff.

Well....Just tell me how TW could possibly know about your watcher/copier ability.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

You know if your tl;dr says I am scum it makes me doubt validity right.

Anyway I'll read it later, if I am convinced I will gladiate TW. And I need Mastina to say stuff.

Thanks for admitting up front what the later posts make clear; you didn't even read the post. Just let me get this out of the way first: *points and laughs*.

For future information, "Valid" is a term that refers to the form of a logical argument. A logical construction is said to be "Valid" when the premises being true must necessarily lead to the conclusion being true. "Sound" is the term used to talk about whether those premises are true or not.

How do you know that they know about my role? Did they slip to you?

Maybe if you had read the post, you would see the quotes of TW posting about your ability right here in the main thread, when she said having Fuzzy visit you would give you Fuzzy's refiller ability, in addition to refilling your supposed "gladiate" ability. I particularly enjoyed the part where she crowed about how that would give "confirmed town" usage of Fuzzy's "refill" ability. Nothing you have claimed has actually been demonstrated to be true.

And why are you calling me scum because TW is scum in your opinion?

The only people who knew that you were a passive watcher/ability copier(thief?) were you and the people you allied with. We knew because Mastin told us in our Day 3 chat with her and Xtoxm, so the pool of people who knew about your ability is: {Mastin, Xtoxm, Sonic (you!)} and we've shown logically why Mastin and Xtoxm are nearly certainly town.

There are no alliances or other means by which TW could have the info unless you gave it to them, but you haven't been in an alliance with them, so you would therefore need to be in some other form of communication with them. Ergo, you are likely scum.

QED - TW scum slipped by demonstrating having knowledge that was not possible for them to have unless they are scum, and among the possible candidates to have been scum with them, you are by far the most likely.


Love, even though you're probably scum,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Reasonably Rational is now confirmed to be

Steven Universe

,

aligned with the

Beach City Residents

.

But, seriously, you're missing something pretty obvious which explains how we know what we know. Take another look.

We spent a lot of time looking already. We noticed this even before the day end yesterday, and vezok just hammered before we had the chance to say anything about it.

So, how about you just share with us the source of your knowledge?
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Wow! Drixx is a master for pointing that out! With the way Titus/TSO and Sonic were playing, Drixx had a stroke of luck catching that!

VOTE: TunnelWariors

I wish I could of caught some scum myself, but the least I can do is put my vote where it belongs.

It's Trench Warfare....also...it would be a good idea to NOT pile votes on. There's a reason we haven't voted yet.

[Reasonably Rational]

Wow! Drixx is a master for pointing that out! With the way Titus/TSO and Sonic were playing, Drixx had a stroke of luck catching that!

VOTE: TunnelWariors

I wish I could of caught some scum myself, but the least I can do is put my vote where it belongs.

Credit where credit is due. I had an uncomfortable feeling about TW but couldn't figure out why, beyond them not claiming to us, and that was reasonably explained by your presence in our alliance. Cerberus caught the fact that they knew about Sonic's ability without having any legitimate way of knowing, and we both combed the thread to make sure there wasn't an alliance we missed. I then went through the thread during the night phase trying to disprove the case, and couldn't.

But in terms of catching the slip ... that's like 99% Cerb and the only reason you might hand me 1% is because I kept feeling like something was off but couldn't place it.

Please re-direct praise to him, and perhaps hold off in case we missed something. "Rational" is a fancy way to say "the way I prefer to think" in most cases, and while the way we both tend to think has a lot of upsides, it does have its weaknesses. Even with all the work we did, I can think of at least one or two edge cases that would make one or both of them not scum; however, that is true for basically any caught scum that isn't caught via a cop with the mod telling the player that the person is scum.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

We would appreciate it if people didn't pile on votes. There's plenty of time, and absolutely no reason to rush into this, for a lot of reasons.

Love,
Drixx

As far as being 1/100th the man Cerberus is ... I

did

read the entire thread trying to knock our case down, because part of being sure you've actually found scum is to legitimately try and poke holes in your own case. If you give a real effort and you cannot, you are going to be right considerably more often than not. I'll be queasy about it now that we've put it in the thread. Cerberus and I have been talking about this for days now ... I think over a week.

P-Edit: Tunnel Warriors has already reporting role copping other people at every available chance, ergo a claim to have Rolecopped Sonic now means a prior lie about an already very powerful looking role. Remember that TW gives inventions out. We were given a doctor usage by them night one. We don't know what was given out on other nights, but obviously the role cop shots are going to be limited and since they are accounted for ... that's not an explanation that works. One of the first ones I thought to check.

[Reasonably Rational]

OK I read RR's case. The part where he comes up with TW being scum is "valid" as in if she did slip that info, she's confscum. The part where he ends up with me being probscum is not. also, titus preaches that "valid" and "sound" gibberish. if she's scum, she'll be difficult to out argue (i dunno, you may enjoy it though). I will execute her if I am convinced without doubt of her guilt, but remember that the net loss if she flips

town

is pretty heavy.

With regards to the evidence themselves, if I tilt my head funny,

yes I can see it from your perspective

. But remember I said this earlier

Nah I'm only a stump for this day phase.

Constantines post have looked bad to me for awhile, though grapes brought up a good point about him being in both Frogger and maxwells lynch pools. I remember maxwell going after bins for awhile too. However, I can't remember who brought it up before, but someone pointed out that bins really put the brakes on the raging bull wagon D1, and was town reading Frogger for pretty poor reasons, while preferring a beer lynch for information. I wouldn't count him out.

I'm wondering what characters would share a pt with steven. I really think a mass flavor claim would be helpful.

Also I agree that it's strange that Sonic's role is the only one that doesn't require a specific phrase to activate an ability, though it's possible that there are no phrases associated with his character.

Another thing I want to mention is that I still think it's odd that TW is the only gem without specific alliance and fusion abilities.

They're claiming that could have been intended to protect Frogger from my setup spec.

Mass Flavor claim pretty please

Where did they claim that? They also claimed in our pt that their role cop was tied to alliances/fusions but they just didn't notice at first.

Also, to everyone: What would be your first assumption if someone displayed knowledge of an aspect of another players role which they had no way of knowing? There is no combination of alliance meetings by which said knowledge could have reached the player, and the information has absolutely not been shared in this thread.

-Cerb

That is a serious crime. I would se if the evidence is explicitly damning or could it be ambiguous misreading. If it is confirmed scum then I will destroy the scumbag.

I noticed those posts that you quoted when you posted them, and yes I found those statements redundant. Like, "gives me back my refilled ability" on first thought could have meant "give me back my gladiate", but she already mentioned that "my gladiate is full".

I think that your evidence is not explicitly damning enough, but for discussion, let's say it is true.

Your case has a really huge hole when it comes to describing TW scum = me scum. Why must be

the rolecop

who rolecopped me then? Why must the set be [mastin, xtoxm, sonic] when another player of her scumteam (she's not the last member of the scumteam, btw) could have gotten the info? remember, I auto scan anybody who uses an action on me. Rolecops *should not* be able to get past me undetected. Once again I ask you if you received the message. Do you even want me to out that? Or do you want me to be discreet. Thanks for outing me btw. Now scum won't target me, but its not like they did throughout this game anyway.

You are facing

n > 1 unknowns, where n = number of remaining scum members, who might have received the information on TW's behalf.

. I ask you, how can you justify your scumread on me?

I'm not even defending myself yet. Just poking your case here. It is obvious to everybody that I can be considered confirmed town by play.

Again, tell me HOW someone else would have that knowledge. You told me you didn't tell anyone else., except a hint of I'm not sure what exactly to grapes. Don't present the hypothetical like I'm unaware of the possibility and didn't specifically ask you to address it already. Tell me how. Give me the method by which TW gained your role information without involving you, mastin, or xtoxm, AND without triggering your ability.

In the original post itself I laid out the circumstances under which I'd be willing to believe you were town, because those are the only circumstances under which it MIGHT make sense that your role was somehow obtained without your knowledge. If you have other possible answers in mind, you need to present them. I'm not going to write your defense for you.

All you're doing is defending yourself and distancing from TW, after a day full of interactions in which you each stepped in when the other was being discussed/questioned. It's hilarious that you're even attempting to disguise your defense as anything else.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, and fuzzy: don't motivate Sonic. We don't need his gladiate if he is town, and if he's scum, we can't risk refilling something important to them.

Regarding CoolDog, I'd like to ally him and get his claim, or alternatively ally fuzzy like I would have suggested as an alternative yesterday had the day not ended before I expected it to.

-Cerb

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Firstly, your question:

Give me the method by which TW gained your role information without involving you, mastin, or xtoxm, AND without triggering your ability.

1) Her rolecop, like her Inventor, bypasses my ability. A ninja has not flipped yet, but we have a confirmed watcher + tracker.
2) Informed Townie/Scum that knows the roles of Others (this explains the crumb that mastina found when she encouraged people to visit me, though that could be attributed to our close rapport)
3) A game specific ability that may or may not explicitly bypass my ability. Neighborhood Invader (Like Hermit, but Invisible.) Oracle. Dreaming God. No fucking clue.
4) Scum could possibly have immunity to my self-watch and this was not being made known to me (Assumption that TW is scum)
5) She guessed it because she knows me too well.
---

The next piece of evidence that should clear my name is information that only Farside is privy to. Get it from her if you haven't already. I don't want to out nice people because that is rude and dumb.

All said, your assertion that I am partnered with TW is dumb. You implictly assert that I am partnered with dead scum Frogger and Maxwell, which is absolutely ridiculous, and I suppose that you did not consider that.

In fact, thinking that I am partnered with anybody... is bad. Paranoia is less bad, but stop being a dick about it. Thanks.

The fact of the matter is that Titus displayed knowledge of your more powerful ability at a time when you had only told Mastin (who told us in our day 3 chat). The fact that you have to posit a list of scenarios that each become more and more unlikely to try and explain away how she knew explicitly violates Occam's razor. The most simple explanation for her knowing you got to copy powers is because someone told her.

The pool of people who could have told her prior to her revealing knowledge of it was very small.

We excluded everyone from that pool, except you, on very strong logical grounds. So strong that nobody has even challenged them at all and Xtoxm went from a lynch candidate to considered town based upon the logic.

It's irrelevant that Mastin disagrees with us, and you know the

many

reasons for that. The fact that you have to appeal to Mastin for defense is amusing, but not really useful to you.


The most simple explanation for you not receiving Titus' power to invent is really simple; your scum partners don't get to give you their abilities. That seems like a reasonable restriction to build into a role like yours, and also explains you openly inviting town powers your way. It's much more believable that your scum buddies cannot give you their abilities than to posit:

1.) Titus is also a ninja, on top of being an inventor and rolecop
2.) Someone somehow informed of your role, in detail, without your knowledge, as a

role

. This is especially true with almost nobody yet to claim (looking at Cooldog here)
3.) Some new heretofore unknown ability that specifically bypasses your ability

and

somehow gets your role info
4.) The scum team is immune to one of your strongest powers
5.) She just miraculously guessed it


For what it's worth, number 5 is what she went with when she posted a quick post yesterday, while driving, because us putting up the case was considered such an emergency that TSO contacted her in

real life

to get her to respond. When she responded, she brushed off the knowledge by saying she had guessed it, and told TSO what it was, and then made a snide comment about us not being as experienced as she is. IF that were so, why would TSO need to get into emergency RL contact with her about our case?

Emergency RL contact seems a lot like what scum might do if a game is on the line and not a lot like what a hydra head would do when the information was already shared with him.


And then we have the start of the day phase. I started to test TW a little bit, and you stepped in to defend her. Then I started to try and get a reaction from you, and she stepped in and asked me to make a case against you that she could get around to today (but surprise, she can't be around today), which was an obvious stall. You guys have associative tells out the wazoo at the beginning of this day phase. We probed you guys to see how you would respond just in case you would respond that way, and you were so kind to us by intervening for one another.

The bottom line is that TW knew your real power when she had no way to know it unless you told her. Unless you are going to attack our logic for why Mastin and Xtoxm are town, you are left with only you as the possible source of her knowing. You already said earlier you weren't bread crumbing it. All you did earlier in the game was ask townies to direct powers at you and pout when they didn't, and frankly that's not enough info for titus to explicitly refer to you gaining the refiller ability when farside visited you. I could

maybe

guess that she considered it as a possibility; however, she wasn't talking about possibilities in those posts. She clearly says you will both gain the refiller power and have your gladiate refilled.

Game.
Set.
Match.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I started to test TW a little bit, and you stepped in to defend her.

did i?

Yes ... yes you did.

"Oh, Steven. Humans just lead short, boring, insignificant lives, so they make up stories to feel like they're a part of something bigger. They want to blame all the world's problems on some single enemy they can fight, instead of a complex network of interrelated forces beyond anyone's control."

-Pearl,

Keep Beach City Weird

VOTECOUNT 4.06: LYNCH

MaxwellPuckett (

LYNCH

):

grapes, Xtoxm, NicCage, farside22, Sonic X, Vezokpiraka, Vezokpiraka

thefuzzylogic99 (2):

St Constantine the Hermit, Trench Warfare

CooLDoG (1):

MaxwellPuckett

mastin2 (1):

Thefuzzylogic99

Vezokpiraka (1):

grapes

Not Voting (4):

vezokpiraka, CooLDoG, Reasonably Rational, Mastin2

With 13 Alive, it took 7 to Lynch.

But you weren't voting him at the end of the day. I mean, if anyone was responsible for maxwell lynch, it wasn't you..or sonic. :p

-Cerb

Did you just say that I was not responsible for the maxwell lynch? Are you daft? Look at your own vote.

Here's you responding to a post aimed a TW, who was voting fuzzy (and fuzzy seems to have been today's designated mislynch by the scum team if what went on before we dropped our case into the thread is any indication). You also throwing some shade on us when we had our vote withheld specifically because Cerberus and Titus had some things to talk about in real time, but Vezok ended the day with his double vote.

Wait for me to get to a computer. 8 hours.

And here's a stall.

@Drixx, I am not quite certain where this is going. I will give you some space. I have an insane day tomorrow. Can you make a case for me to look over on Friday?

And here's Titus intervening when I was pushing you trying to get me to stop and make a case against you to be looked at a day+ later ... another stall.


And all of that was was BEFORE we did anything more than some light questioning of you two.

[Reasonably Rational]

Sonic is displaying the "repeat a lie enough and they'll believe it" approach to trying to get out of hot water. It's a very simple case.

Titus

knew

precisely your role, and slipped up by revealing that she knew having farside visit you would both give you the "refiller ability" and also refill your gladiate shot. She was explicit to make sure that both things were mentioned and clearly separate. At that time, according to you, nobody had visited you, and you had told only Mastin about the role. By the time Titus slipped in referring to it, we had told Xtoxm and Mastin. The pool of people who knew your ability and could have told it to Titus was only three people, and two of them are ironclad logically town.

That leaves just you.

The fact that you have to appeal to a crazy list of unlikely possibilities just flies in the face of Occam's razor. You are basically admitting that you are scum and told Titus your role, unless one of those super unlikely things is true (Titus both being a ninja and having extra shots of rolecop to use when she has already used rolecop and revealed its results for every opportunity, leaving no opportunity to have rolecopped you, and then it just gets even less likely to be possible from there). I already shot down your list.

If your argument for innocence amounts to "you don't know the setup and there could be some crazy role or ability in play, even though almost everyone has claimed and no such crazy role or ability has been claimed" ... you're in the deep end and sinking fast.

~Drixx (as was the prior).

[Reasonably Rational]

Wait for me to get to a computer. 8 hours.

THIS WAS ME WRITING A LONG LETTER TO FARSIDE YOU SHIT

AND YOU CALL THIS STALLING?

IF I WERE SCUM I WOULD HAVE GLADIATED SOME RANDOM SHITEHOLE AND CUTTING DISCUSSION INSTEAD OF WAITING 48 HOURS FOR WHAT?

First you asked us if we were in an alliance with farside, then asked us to wait 8 hours. I like how you are devolving into like frothing at the mouth and slinging profanity. It's kind of amusing.

Also, if you gladiated someone now, you would effectively be admitting you are scum and would end up lynched, so as much as you might be cornered, you know you can't make that move ... ergo the rage you are displaying.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

But you weren't voting him at the end of the day. I mean, if anyone was responsible for maxwell lynch, it wasn't you..

or sonic. :p

DID YOU THINK THIS WAS FUNNY.

YOU CALL THIS DEFENDING TITUS?

YOU GO HOME RIGHT NOW.

I AM ALWAYS DEFENDING MYSELF. SCREW. OFF.

Thank you for pointing this out. This was a reaction test by Cerb aimed at you. He was talking with the Titus head of Trench Warfare about who was "responsible" for the maxwell lynch, and he added in that little ".. or sonic." to see if you would take the bait and try to defend yourself. The conversation thread was clearly with Titus and Cerb, and you clearly jumped in and took it hook, line and sinker.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

oh. cool.

argue i am 3rd party now. go on. be a SMITE master and mislynch me.

your attacks are not even logical in the slightest. stop poking me for circumstantial hypothetical reasons when me and mastin wanted you to shut the literal fuck up during the frogger lynch. okay? okay.

not okay?

Now we've reached the "just totally making shit up here" phase.

I was personally typing up a post that we should wait and see if Fro99er had an actual reasonable reason to have visited before we piled on, and while typing that post he self locked. That doesn't change the fact that it's prudent to wait and see if people have reasonable explanations for things. Note how we asked people

not to pile on and lynch TW

even though we're pretty sure the case is solid and TW is scum? That wasn't defense.

We also did have reason to think that Fro99er might be telling the truth, because is

fake claim

made him a similar type of claim as what Xtoxm is, and the similarity was weak evidence in his favor. That was a fake claim that, presumably, Varsoon gave him so it makes sense that it lined up with someone who is logically town. That's what a fake claim is for.

Love, Drixx.

P.S. - I'll be doing other stuff for awhile but maybe Cerb will pup his head in.

[Reasonably Rational]

uh, no, claiming it was a reaction test later doesnt work.

you have yet to explain how it was a "titus defense".

now you're saying its a me defense. that's good, we are on the same page.

please explain your logic flow.

Youy

[Reasonably Rational]

uh, no, claiming it was a reaction test later doesnt work.

you have yet to explain how it was a "titus defense".

now you're saying its a me defense. that's good, we are on the same page.

please explain your logic flow.

You jumped into a conversation between Ceberus and Titus in order to react to that little "or Sonic" bit, and then followed that up by asking if we were in an alliance with farside, and then followed that up with a request to stall for 8 hours. And all of that was before there was an actual case on the table. That was just a little poking and prodding to see how you two would react.

~Drixx

P.S. - Last post was who knows what. Sorry.

[Reasonably Rational]

Spoiler: frogger is town and i am too lazy to find all

Yeah still target me with night actions and stuff. If you don't know who to target just target me yolo


I'm other

Interesting. Okay, so there are more possible scum in the game than just frogger. Who else is at the top of your list, if frogger isn't an option for today?

-Cerb

Hey Sonic, is your desire to be targeted by things from those who townread you still true, or do you no longer wish to be targeted? Also, I don't think either you or Frogger are scum. Also, are you a gem or other, I asked you this before, and you haven't been around to answer. Kinda curious what the light prism is classified as in this game.

-Cerb

Sonic's Gladiate attempt on Frogger. Sorry. Mixed up some words in there.

-Cerb

pedit: I like having a little wiggle room so I can salvage my ego if I'm wrong.

Skybird: Sorry about that, minor crisis arose at work and my day wasn't as free as I expected it to be. In regards to CoolDog, I remember in conversation Drixx and I had about his slot Drixx and I were both feeling scum vibes from him, and when I went to the thread to read his posts then I said I felt like it was because he was just "taking the opportunity to snipe at sonic, and just parroting the thoughts others had." However...upon skimming his iso, it isn't immediately apparent whose thoughts I thought he was parroting/what led me to that conclusion. I need to look at things in context to see what Me of several days ago saw about him and why i thought his behavior was scummy.

Mastin, Sonic: No, we are not lynching Frogger today. Frogger v Sonic screams TvT, how do you not see that? I'm making an assumption here, but if sonic wasn't lying about his gladiate increasing the time we had before lynch, his gladiate attempt itself, both today and yesterday, isn't scummy, and without that I just don't see scum in him. Frogger there isn't even anything there to think it scummy, beyond the lurking D1 while he was hydraing, which has been explained by Frogger to my satisfaction at least.

-Cerb

Fro99er: Hmm. I'll be honest, in all the noise sonic was making about you being scum, I kinda missed your opinion on sonics slot. Do you think he's scum?

Oh, and CoolDog: you're right, bad scum can win games too, that's true. It's generally safer, though, to assume your enemies are competent, so you aren't surprised by something clever and effective. Something stupid and effective is generally less threatening than clever and effective...since clever and effective will get them to endgame with a handpicked set of players, and stupid and effective will let them skate until end game, at which point their terrible play gets them lynched.

-Cerb

Frogger v Sonic screams TvT, how do you not see that?

How do you not see that Frogger isn't town? It's townVscum, SonicVFrogger. And now I get to turn around and flip the point in Frogger's defense against him:

you're saying this generic thing about Frogger being town, without backing up why.

(The irony!)

Skybird: Sorry about that, minor crisis arose at work and my day wasn't as free as I expected it to be. In regards to CoolDog, I remember in conversation Drixx and I had about his slot Drixx and I were both feeling scum vibes from him, and when I went to the thread to read his posts then I said I felt like it was because he was just "taking the opportunity to snipe at sonic, and just parroting the thoughts others had." However...upon skimming his iso, it isn't immediately apparent whose thoughts I thought he was parroting/what led me to that conclusion. I need to look at things in context to see what Me of several days ago saw about him and why i thought his behavior was scummy.

Mastin, Sonic: No, we are not lynching Frogger today. Frogger v Sonic screams TvT, how do you not see that? I'm making an assumption here, but if sonic wasn't lying about his gladiate increasing the time we had before lynch, his gladiate attempt itself, both today and yesterday, isn't scummy, and without that I just don't see scum in him.

Frogger there isn't even anything there to think it scummy, beyond the lurking D1 while he was hydraing, which has been explained by Frogger to my satisfaction at least.

-Cerb

Which, I will freely admit, isn't an exhaustive case for town as I displayed for say, Ricastle and Constantine, but, Fro99er also hasn't *done* anything. It is, however, more than just the "nothing" you're pretending I said by taking my quote out of context. Is Frogger good at this game? I think the consensus is yes, Frogger is at the least competent, Would scum ascetic frogger not tell town he was ascetic, so that way he gets to be a PL for not sharing that information earlier in the game? no, i don't think he would. I just don't see scum motivation or thoughts in his play. I don't see inconsistency, or bad logic, or anything I can point to as a reason to think his slot is scum.

-Cerb

Hey mastin, any reads beyond frogger before the night sets in? While you're possibly actively on the site doing stuff?

-Cerb

VOTE: Trench Warfare

They just claimed the Lighthouse Gem Monster in our alliance. Let's go.

We have to lynch frogger today my man

That's also likely a bad idea. The cases are all terrible. Give me a reason to lynch frogger that isn't absolute shit and I'll think about it.

-Cerb

This is a continuation of the discrediting our future reads based on past actions which I accused you of earlier today.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Firstly, it's still questionable why

every other example

of a triggered ability requires a specific phrase taken from the television show, but you, and you alone, get to make up your own flavor and do it differently. That doesn't make sense, but that alone isn't evidence of anything, since it's possible Varsoon might make a different mechanic for some reason known only to him. If so, it's problematic and bad game design, but whatever.

The actual case against you, which you are trying to obfuscate, is very simple:

There was nothing at all ambiguous about what Titus said. She clearly referred to you as "Confirmed town" and she clearly said that you would

gain

the refiller ability, and that you would also have your gladiate refilled. I can tell you guys must have daychat because before you just ignored this and now you're trying to say it's ambiguous when it's not.

You cannot explain how Titus knew your role. Give a reasonable explanation for how Titus knew your role and thus knew having farside visit you would give you farside's ability as well as let farside refill your gladiate. A reasonable explanation is one that does not rely upon some wildly unlikely heretofore unknown role or mechanic to be the deus ex machina.

Titus knew your role. Only three people could have told her. Two of those people logically have to be town or this game is completely broken (and nobody disputes the logic for them being town). That leaves just you Sonic.

Keep flailing.

[Reasonably Rational]

#3997 and this by Drixx.

[Reasonably Rational]

Now, what's most interesting about all this, Sonic, is that you're making the assumption that Drixx and I are just posting without thinking things through. We knew about this from shortly after that post was made by TW, and we held off on saying anything about it for days just to make sure we weren't confbiasing or missing something.

We are aware of the implications youscum has in regards to your place in the fro99er lynch(but not in the maxwell lynch, you don't get to claim anything for that one, that's all mastin, and she wanted him dead in out pt on D3). We are aware of the fact that one can posit any sort of circumstances to create a chance for any set of circumstances to come about. The only CERTAIN guilty/innocent is one that's posted in thread by the mod like ours was. Any sort of targeted ability, or knowledge, etc, can be potentially gained through a variety of possible things. However...since nothing is certain in the face of the totality of potential options, one has to rely upon determining which options are LIKELY, not which options are possible.

It is UNLIKELY that something exists gave your role information to TW while leaving you unaware of it. Why? Because it is UNLIKELY that TW's team has more than one rolecop. As I said at the end of the post though, right after the part where I said you were likely scum...IF TW's rolecop functions in a fashion differently than the way they've said it does, or it doesn't exist, etc, then you're possibly cleared. I said that already. The majority of possible ways for them to learn your role that are reasonable things to suspect, require that TW's rolecop not function the way they said it does.

-Cerb

pedit: Sonic, Sonic, Sonic. You don't know me. I couldn't possibly care less what everyone else thinks of my reads. We can disagree, others can present their opinions to me, but I don't hold anyone here in high enough esteem to be given pause when they disagree with a case founded on a logical progression.

Anyways, we should stop crapping all over the thread right now. TW goes, and then we can determine the effect their flip has on the likelihood of you being their partner.

peditx2!!: Again, you don't know me. I...don't act on gut reads. You may have noticed that I barely ever place my vote? That's because the reason to believe someone is scum has to be extremely strong for me to vote for them. Even if I did act on gut reads...I'm gut townreading you, but it seems logically unlikely for that to be the case, except in x situations which will be determined by TW's flip.

On a different matter: The issue with your activation phrase isn't important at all. It's something we noticed and brought up to get you involved in the conversation, same as the reason why we asked TW about their VCA at the start of the day.

Finally, I'll keep this very simple with regards to people always scum reading you because they don't know you: It doesn't matter. Our primary reason to be suspicious of you is based on circumstances surrounding you, NOT your play. Regardless of what you wrote in the thread at any point, the knowledge about you had a limited number of sources, and those sources include you...and the others are town. That is why we're suspicious of you, not what you've said or done this game. Anyways, as I said a bit ago...let's stop crapping all over the thread. You believe others are scum. Who and why?

-Cerb(ninja'd repeatedly by Drixx and Sonic, but I'm not going to just not post this.)

pedit again: Stop treating us like imbeciles by making the most facile of points.

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm gut townreading you, but it seems logically unlikely for that to be the case, except in x situations which will be determined by TW's flip.

this is clearly a lie.

people always gut scumread me and therefore come up with "logical walls" to make them not sound like idiots after i flip town

You again overestimate how much I care what anyone here thinks of me after I'm proven wrong.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well, or right. The opinions of strangers on a forum is pretty meaningless to me.

Oh, and hey, look Drixx, Sonic is making the semantics argument that we expected TW to make for them, even though it's clearly terribly redundant for them to be referring to that twice, AND considering TW ALREADY ADMITTED to knowing what his power is. Like, Sonic, you do realize TW said they knew your power, and essentially admitted those posts showing they knew your power were correct, they were only focusing on obfuscating the SOURCE of their information, right?

-Cerb

pedit: farside didn't share all of that with me. Only a bit about fuzzy's abilities and your intended gladiate target.

[Reasonably Rational]

i think its better to claim this early:

If you are townreading me, please use a night action on me. Any kind (except vig kills, duh): Cop, Doc, Jailkeep, Track, Watch -- any kind. If you're not townreading me, then fine. Thanks.

This is a large crumb as to Sonic's role. This suggests he interacts somehow with anyone who visits him. That's not a surprise. He doesn't want vig kills to visit him which eliminates lightning rod. So the next question is what role does this?

It has to be an obscurer role. He wouldn't call for all PR roles to visit him if he was something like a reflexive jailkeepers. That would wind up blocking the cop.

I mentioned that I had deduced Sonic's role way back in 410 and told you why. Look at the motivation.

Sonic had to be some sort of replicator. Enhancer was a remote long shot, but that wouldn't make sense as it would require the mod to determine what enhancing is.

I have seen replicators on DarkLordPotter.net in Masquerade Ball, a player had the exact same ability. The fact you made so much about me knowing Sonic's role when you could have asked me in PT is such utter shit.

@Mastina,Abilities are things players can do. You and Xtoxm have the same abilities. Voteless is a modifier.

@All, Now I am going to check on any missed questions after I get to the game I am modding. Use the post tags rather than quote if there's an urgent priority.

Here's the problem with this TW: It is clearly implicit in the noted quotes that you EXPECTED us to know about his refiller ability, in spite of NEVER IN OUR TWO PT'S actually telling us that you had said belief about his power. Your post 410 doesn't change that. Do you know what that implies, when combined with your knowledge that we had an alliance with Mastin? That you made the logical deduction that Mastin(who you knew was town, because you're not) had shared with us the knowledge Sonic had given her(which you knew because Sonic is your partner and had told you so) because she obviously townread us.

That, btw, is another reason for Sonic to be scum, BUT it's super circumstantial and I don't like it. It is, however, the only explanation for TW's knowledge of what was likely to be in our PT with Mastin though, that doesn't mean Mastin/Xtoxm scum

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Sonic's still town. He's cleared by VCA.

The absolute pool for lynching for me is anyone but Farside, Sonic, me or RR.

Only one of you/Hermit is scum.
Only one of Mastina/Xtoxm is scum.

Given Xtoxm claimed that one of he and Mastina had a night ability, unless I misread something, then he should be lynched. If I have misunderstood something, I'd prefer Hermit as you would be forced to refill Sonic which means town has another gladiate and scum can't push mislynches.. I strongly favor resolving the 1 v 1s that have emerged in my VCA.

Cooldog is more of a consensus lynch.

This post is completely absurd. You're scum. You are a lawyer and you know the difference between having guesses at what abilities might want to be targeted and displaying knowledge of exactly what a role is. You demonstrated that you knew

exactly

what Sonic did. You knew he would get farside's refiller ability, and then after that get his gladiate refilled. Your referring to him as confirmed town when nothing he has claimed is confirmed is even more absurd. Do you think if you repeat it enough times, nobody will realize?

VCA doesn't clear people. VCA is a combination of large scale probability based upon observations of a large sample of games, along with assumptions about how psychology creates patterns in scum voting behavior. While VCA can help you sort and find people who look scummy because of those things, all it really does is sort. You don't make a case out of VCA because, as anyone with a graduate level degree

should

know, you cannot apply large scale probability theories to individual cases, and you cannot depend upon any single human being to line up with an observed psychological trend. The most VCA can do is put you on the trail of people who have things that make them likely to be scum from a meta view. You then have to actually make a case. It's not a voodoo cure all.

Further, your pairings are just dumb. Xtoxm and Mastin are ironclad logically town. Not a single person in the game has even tried to poke a hole in the logic for why they're town.


And what's up with the misdirection? Xtoxm didn't claim he had a night ability, or that Mastin did. That's classic intentional misdirection with some CYA thrown in with that "unless I misread" and "Unless I misunderstood" bullshit you threw in there.

And that last bit is just pathetic. Really? You are going to try and save yourself by trying to start a counterwagon on Cooldog? How about we get a claim out of him yeah?


@Farside - Unless you can point out the flaw in our logic for why Xtoxm and Mastin are both town, you shouldn't vote for Xtoxm. It makes you look really scummy. Titus argues one of them has to be scum because they both got to talk to us on day 3 and according to her you can't have two of the same role on the same alignment ... even if it's a delayed one way masonry, LOL. She says this while asking us to believe that there are two town rolecops.

[Reasonably Rational]

Implicit in the logical chain that concludes with Titus learned your role because you are scum together and You told her, Sonic, is that Titus has told

some

truth in terms of abilities and limits.

You gladiate Titus and she flips scum and the abilities are different than she claimed, there are loads of ways that leads to it being either significantly

less

likely that you are scum all the way to

completely unlikely

. You are the most logical explanation for the knowledge she displayed which she could not have had legitimately.


@Everyone - Anything Titus says is complete WIFOM at this point. She is caught scum with a defense of "He asked people to target him with abilities, so

of course

I knew he got to copy/steal people's roles if they used them on him" to explain the slip. The post she most recently made was oily in its scumminess and totally self serving. She refers to VCA as if it's some magical cure all but doesn't actually show it. She refers to things that never happened as misdirection. She appeals to try and get a wagon on someone that almost everyone has said seems scummy at one time or another.

I mean ... Farside thought TW was scummy before we ever shared our case ... but after that post voted for someone who is logically as close to conftown as it is possible to be short of an investigative clear. Don't let Titus wriggle out of being caught red handed. The explanation is complete bullshit. There's no way on earth that Titus figured out Sonic's role based upon "please target me townies" with so much confidence that she would make those posts. Those posts demonstrate actual concrete knowledge of his role. Furthermore, the defense is completely undermined by the fact that she claims to have told TSO what sonic's role was, but TSO felt that our case necessitated real life contact to get Titus on while she was driving to defend. If it really was simply just that She/They had figured out his role, TSO would have just said that.

[Reasonably Rational]

If Sonic actually is town (a possibility we allow for depending on whether things Titus has said are true or not, which would impact the logic for how she got his role), then it's actually possible that the Beer lynch happened with no scum on the wagon.

Remember that Beer and Vezok started together in a 2 person masonry mod confirmed to each other as Sadie and Lars, who both by flavor should have been considered town. Beer was town and only got lynched because of some discussion that took place in that alliance PT they started with. Clearly since Vezok also flipped town, Vezok misunderstood what Beer was saying. With a claim from confirmed Sadie that Beer said he was scum, it's super possible that Beer could have been lynched by all townies.

This is

precisely

why VCA is flawed. It's almost certainly true that a large majority of the time, scum are both on and off of lynches, especially the day one lynch; however, all you need to do is look through completed games to find games where scum played in a way that makes VCA useless. The fact that VCA is so commonly relied upon on this site and that scum are aware of it and can go read the most current theorycrafting about it ... that fact

alone

should preclude anyone from coming to an alignment conclusion about someone based solely upon looking at a vote count.

We're out for awhile. We should get the last remaining claims out of the way. There was a strongman, so obviously there is a doctor, but we haven't seen a doctor flip and the kill that got janitored was on a character that makes flavor sense to be a cop. We haven't had a regular old alignment cop claim or show up dead, so that becomes more and more likely as the game wears on. I could totally see Cooldog being lurky if he's the doctor and keeping us alive. I can also totally see why scum might have thought other people more likely and gone after them first, but now the pool of players is trimmed down enough and the claims we don't have are down to Cooldog and ... I'm not sure there's anyone else.

So like ... when the flipped scum role logically tells us that there is a protector role, and we haven't seen that claimed or flipped, it makes sense to consider someone flying under the radar and not yet having claimed as a possibility for that role that is likely to exist.

Please err on the side of caution. Both of us are likely to be gone for the better part of the next 24 hours.

And if you doubt our Titus case; don't. We have more reasons that we haven't shared yet just waiting for specific ways we predicted she might try to talk her way out of things. Mastin is in possession of a strong argument for Scum Titus, and we have quite a few more.


@Farside - If Xtoxm was scum, we would have automatically been dead without any way to stop it during the first season finale night, due to strongman. There is no series of events that could have saved us, except for pure dumb luck, and that is simply just really bad game design and Varsoon is not a bad game designer.

It makes way more sense from a game balance perspective to let us conftown on day 5 and have some time before the next season finale when we would get strongman killed. If we had realized the logic sooner, we would not have claimed early and then only Mastin and Xtoxm would have known who we were prior to our being mod confirmed, which came only the morning

after

the first time strongman could be used. That is strong evidence for both of them being town. As much as I believe people who are logically conftown should be more active and it bugs me that neither of them are, the logic is undeniable.

Sadly, someone can play a really bad town game, as Xtoxm is so far this game, and still be town. Just look at Vezok's sum total contribution to the game. He wrecked a mod confirmed masonry and got his mason partner killed on day one, did very little other than make snide comments here and there, ended at least one day early despite people asking him not to. There's really not much redeeming about the game play from that slot this game and yet ... he flipped town.

[Reasonably Rational]

I find it rather bizarre that RR thinks that it's improbable that I made contact with Titus irl when it's easier and quicker to do than going on the forums.

Yep ... it totally makes sense to contact someone IRL when you already have the excuse prepared (as she claimed). It makes total sense to ask her to post from the phone, while driving, instead of you just posting it. Your actions demonstrated panic.

@Mod - I believe impersonating the mod is against the rules. Can you please take care of TSO's little stunt? Thanks.

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm sorry, I'm sure everyone was convinced by the post where I declared myself to be conftown with a rolename another player had already been declared conftown with.

I would imagine you're not invited to many parties.

It's irrelevant whether anyone was convinced by your post that you used to set up a snide post. You obviously can't play by the rules. You don't post in hydra like you're supposed to. You impersonated the mod. You are now throwing insults at me because I expect you to act like an adult and play by the rules instead of blatantly violate them just to be a snide asshole.

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay, so, farside: there are flavor reasons why his role makes perfect sense, and would be town, but that's kinda irrelevant. His play in the pt was much better than his cotributions out here have been, but I can't show you that. How can we discuss xtoxm as town without involving that logical chain we've employed?

Grapes: yes, season finale only, which is why it all slots in so nicely to create a clear picture of why xtoxm and mastin aren't scum.

I'll be around for like 15 more minutes before I head out, but I'm mobile, so....I can talk, but not well.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Sonic, I'd be a lot more comfortable with you if the bit about the message that was shared with us was directed towards you. Make it easy for it to work to greatest effect and certainty, k?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hmm. I said two things were shared with us, one was your gladiate. The other thing....should be directed at you.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Xtoxm, if this is multiball, I need to reconsider both you and mastin, because the logic falls apart when the guaranteed kill and roleblocking aren't in your faction.

-Cerb

Farside, check the pt.

[Reasonably Rational]

Just check the message you sent Sonic. It should become clear

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, farside, relax. don't get frustrated. I think I'm just not communicating it very well. :/ sonic, what I'm talking about has nothing to do with YOU except you delivered the knowledge to myself and farside, and it should be USED on you. Not the motivate.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

okay so the thread lock threw me off

what are we waiting on exactly? just alliances and stuff?

Alliances, sonic and fuzzy confirming they understood my suggestion. I think fuzzy should ally us, and not motivate sonic. CoolDog and mastin should appear first too.

-Cerb

Sonic: make it expicot and unquestionable.

[Reasonably Rational]

TW is scum. Displaying certain knowledge that there is no possible town way to have is a scum slip. We asked the game and people agreed that this was the case. We have shown that TW had no way to know, and TW's "defense" is that Titus just magically guessed the ability, with such certainty that she spoke of it as if it were certain knowledge.

We view Sonic as scum based upon the logical idea that someone had to tell TW that info. TW's flip could easily exonerate Sonic.

Farside is "scummy", because Farside has misrepresented us. What we said is that a strongman implies a doctor. Nobody has claimed doctor or any other protective ability which would necessitate a strongman. We are down to just Cooldog left to claim, I believe, so we posited that it's very possible he has been lurking through the game and okay with being viewed scummy by everyone while he's busy doing work as a doctor.

Cooldog could very well be scum. All we said was that we're missing a doctor, and his behavior makes him a possible candidate for that. It's very weak evidence, but that's how you figure things out in the game. You take what you know, figure out what that implies, and make logical hypothesis about things. Then, if you are being intellectually honest, you try to disprove your own hypothesis.


For example: I spent the better part of 3 real time days trying to disprove our logic about Mastin and Xtoxm being town and our case against TW.

-------------------------------------------------

People need to separate what's going on with our case. We're very confident that TW is scum, and TW's defense is very weak, while the reaction of one of the TW heads doesn't line up with the claimed defense. There are other reasons to view TW as scum. One of them is that the Titus head claimed to want to ally with us night one because she had a hard time reading both of us and wanted to try and figure us out. In the night one alliance she just immediately treated us as if we were conftown to her. There was no kind of questioning or evaluation at all from TW. It's another piece of circumstantial evidence against TW. TW might say they just figured out we were town by things we said or did on day one; however, Titus in particular has very badly misread both of us when we were town before. Something in Mastin's recently revised bussing article caught my attention when thinking about this: When someone is scum, they overestimate their skill at being town and notice things they wouldn't as town because they already know them.


The case for Sonic being scum with Titus is based upon one fragile link: someone had to tell Titus his ability and a very limited pool of people knew, Sonic being the overwhelmingly most likely to be the source. TW's flip could very well show that they lied about things and could basically clear Sonic. Let's say that TW doesn't have a rolecop at all, but instead some other scum team person can role cop every night (instead of charges with re-charge as they claimed). TW could have fed a fake claim role of scum partner to us, or it could simply be that TW doesn't role cop at all and got "role cop" info from a team mate, and that team mate role copped Sonic. There's a whole load of possibilities that could clear sonic.


What I find disturbing is that Titus did nothing at all that explains her slip, and farside is busy just giving Titus a pass, despite the fact that farside thought TW was scummy before we put the case out there. Now all of a sudden, Titus can refer to VCA analysis that has never been posted in the thread and conveniently set up two 1v1s that would endgame town if she's scum (including a 1v1 of a pair who are logically town, unless this is multiball), and even try to start a wagon on Cooldog ... and Farside is so swayed by it that suddenly Titus is town and should be sheeped?

Sorry Farside, but that's so wishy washy it is literally absurd. Titus hasn't addressed the case against her slot with anything remotely believable. She hasn't even posted the supposed VCA that she was referring to when she tried to just ignore the case on her and wriggle out of this jam. You are displaying extreme gullibility and cognitive dissonance right now.

Love,
Drixx

I'll be headed out for the day and Cerb won't be back for awhile ... but if you all let Titus squirm her way out of this with that ridiculous "I guessed the role because he asked for people to target him" excuse, given that TSO was so panicked he got her to text while driving to address the case, when she claims the answer was in their hydra PT ... there aren't words for how foolish that would be. If Sonic is town and telling the truth, he should Gladiate Titus, unless he wants to white knight her instead ... but good luck with that. I didn't want Titus to be scum and combed the thread trying to find ways to dismiss the list of scummy things, along with the display of certain knowledge she shouldn't have had.

[Reasonably Rational]

Hahahaha.
I called him a brick wall.

We simplified the logical chain as much as possible. Unless you can counter it, why should we change our minds? It's not stubborn on our part. You haven't given any reason that our logic is incorrect. Calling us names doesn't change that fact.

There's one major edge case where the logic breaks and that's if one of them is a 3rd party or if this is multi-ball and the one of them that would be scum in that case is on the team that doesn't have strongman and alliance blocking power. We have so far seen on real evidence of multiball, so while it's possible one of them is 3rd party ... it's nearly impossible that either of them are scum.

Unless Varsoon has come up with a neutral that wouldn't be a policy lynch like all of the neutral roles I've seen before, if one of them were to be outed as a 3rd party, we would want to lynch them.

Unfortunately, we're pretty sure our cop was killed and janitored on night one, for flavor reasons.

@Farside - Please explain why our logic is wrong or else stop calling us names

and deciding anything we say is wrong because we are sticking to our process and logic, which to this point nobody has even tried to contradict. Calling us a brick wall (and other things you said in the PT with us) is completely uncalled for when you cannot put up any argument against our logic. Why would we change our mind because you read Xtoxm as scum, but logic clears him?

I mean ... by your standard, we should consider Vezok scum. Vezok lurked just as much as Xtoxm has. Vezok's few posts were generally sarcastic and unhelpful. Vezok intentionally got his mod confirmed mason partner killed on day one. Vezok intentionally ended at least one day phase when several people asked people to hold so things could get accomplished before PTs got locked. Vezok was 100% negative utility to the town, and yet he was town. Sometimes you can look like scum and help the scum, and still be town. There's evidence of that in this very game.

[Reasonably Rational]

Sometimes you can look like scum and help the scum, and still be town. There's evidence of that in this very game.

This is a fact. I agree completely. Ricastle is one of them. The person who made the above statement too.

Stop being an asshole. We had reason to believe that Fro99er's claim could be legit, based upon info we had that wasn't in the main thread at the time. Turns out that Fro99er's claim was a

fake claim

, presumably given by Varsoon, so it makes sense that his claim lined up with the claim of someone likely to be town. The post I was personally making while Fro99er self-locked wasn't defending him; I said that we shouldn't rush to judgment. Someone visiting someone else at night doesn't automatically make them scum. It turns out he was scum, but it is good practice to let someone explain themselves before you kill them.

And as far as Maxwell goes, I told him to claim or die at the start of the day phase, which has been confirmed by others in the PT, so you probably can't say I tried to stop him being killed.

If you could see farther than your trench and faux indignation that we rate you the most likely way that Titus got the information she shouldn't have had, maybe we could kill scum, and see the flip. Titus got the info somewhere. We think you're the most likely source. Her flip will hopefully clarify that and, if you're being honest and town, should help vindicate you.

You also cannot argue that it's strange that everyone else has to give a very specific quote from the Steven Universe show to trigger abilities, but you alone claim to have gotten to make up your own flavor, related to a video game you like. That's just strange.

RR. Your "logical deduction" that "mastina and xtoxm" cannot be scum is because there is a strongman that would kill you or something?

Do you think it is more or less likely that Varsoon would create a scum counter to my role?

Assuming you actually are a Gladiator (which you should easily be able to prove by Gladiating Titus), there was a counter to your role, wasn't there? All of your town cred rests on you having attempted and expended your gladiate charge against Fro99er. Are you saying that isn't the case?

Also, the more you stall the gladiate and try to let a wagon form somewhere other than Titus, the more it looks like you're trying to protect that slot.

As for your question about the logic concerning Mastin and Xtoxm, you should actually go read the logical progression. It would be a broken game that the approval group would reject if either Xtoxm or Mastin are on the scum team that contained Fro99er and Maxwell. There's a couple of edge cases. One of them could be a 3rd party. There could be a 2nd scum team. We rate those as unlikely, but they are within the set of what is possible and thus need to be re-evaluated from time to time.


Love,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

nobody has even tried to contradict

this is a lie

Show me the post where someone attempted to contradict our logic progression for why Mastin and Xtoxm can't be scum (I already mentioned the edge cases myself). Also ... you do realize it's super scummy to cherry pick someone's post to try and mislead right? If you can't even quote an entire sentence in context, and you're just cherry picking to try and score low blow, you just make yourself look petty and scummy.

If you want to be a petty asshole and make yourself look scummy ... that's your decision.

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm not fucking town reading tw.
I'm narrowing things down.
But please let me do fuck all in this game and call me town.

That is to rr.

I'm going fucking lurk the rest of this game because apparently that fucking okay to do as town.

Why do you insist on misrepresenting us? Saying that we have no dead doctor or doctor claim and pointing out that Cooldog's play and lack of claim

could be

him being the doctor is

not the same thing

as saying we think he actually is town. We think he needs to be pressed ... but he needs to actually be around to press him.

When you start accepting Titus' claims about what VCA says, when she hasn't even posted the VCA, then it looks like you trust Titus, which implies you are town reading Titus. If you are scum reading someone, you view everything they say as suspect. Titus has every reason to try and set up a situation where she squirms out of getting lynched today and claim that if we just follow the (not posted or explained) VCA she claims to have done, we'll prevail.

What will really happen if we follow that list of 1v1 lynches she proposed is her scum team will endgame us.

[Reasonably Rational]

nobody has even tried to contradict

this is a lie

Show me the post where someone attempted to contradict our logic progression for why Mastin and Xtoxm can't be scum (I already mentioned the edge cases myself). Also ... you do realize it's super scummy to cherry pick someone's post to try and mislead right? If you can't even quote an entire sentence in context, and you're just cherry picking to try and score low blow, you just make yourself look petty and scummy.

If you want to be a petty asshole and make yourself look scummy ... that's your decision.

you called farside scummy, so i don't actually know what that word means from you anymore.

i think most of the players who are in a PT with you atm agree that you are the asshole here.

Maybe I am an asshole. I don't cherry pick your posts to try and score cheap points on you though. I'm trying to win the game for my win con. I can look through Titus' game history and every time she is scum she has a remarkable ability to wriggle out of getting lynched. I don't want that to happen here.

The hyperbole isn't useful to anyone.

[Reasonably Rational]

yea titus not posting her VCA is just ugh.


but in another game she lost because she was too busy to do her vca. so it is null.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62114

It's not just the not posting it though. She's trying to squirm out of a strong scum case against her by just ignoring it, because the only defense she has just isn't credible. So she

claims

that VCA clears Her and you and me and farside, and says we should find remaining scum 1 from {Constantine vs. Fuzzy} and 1 from {Mastin, Xtoxm} (even though she made no attempt to explain why our logical progression and conclusion that they are extremely unlikely to be scum is wrong ... which should be easy if we made a mistake) and then she threw Cooldog in there.

You can call me an asshole all I want. I didn't start the namecalling. Farside has been profane and over the top sarcastic when interacting with me all game. I asked if I had offended her at some prior juncture or something to see if we could figure it out and patch things up. She gave a response that is hers to share if she wants to. I mostly just ignore it because it's obviously frustration when she starts throwing out hyperbole and attacking us.

I didn't realize you were waiting for Fuzzy for some reason to gladiate, but should I take that post from you to be confirmation that you intend to gladiate Titus?


And by the way Sonic ... you are only a scum read because of that one tenuous link. Titus had to get that information from somewhere. The logical place is that someone who had the information is on the scum team with her. Since Mastin and Xtoxm are logically excluded from that scum team (unless this is multi-ball), that just leaves you. I'm not sure how often Cerberus or I need to say that we expect her flip to have a huge impact on reading you. I personally have a theory for what we'll see, and if that theory is supported by her flip, that will be a pretty solid argument for you as town.

If we weren't constantly updating our priors and re-evaluating in light of new info, that would be one thing and people would be justified in calling us stubborn. The fact is, we constantly evaluate and change our mind when information warrants a change.

It would help all of us who are likely town (especially Farside) if we could drop the nastiness. TvT abuse is not helpful in any way, and I really have on interest in wasting what little time I have this morning fighting with someone I don't want to fight with.

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm not following tw. Yes they said they checked the VCA.
I did day 1 only and I haven seen all town on a town wagon in a large game.
That is it.
Nothing more.

Assuming you actually are a Gladiator (which you should easily be able to prove by Gladiating Titus), there was a counter to your role, wasn't there? All of your town cred rests on you having attempted and expended your gladiate charge against Fro99er. Are you saying that isn't the case?

well, i was talking about my copier.

anyway, i've been obviously town by play. even beer called me town and frogger scum day 1. so... "all my town cred"? hmmm.

FWIW - I can't speak 100% for Cerberus, but I'm pretty sure the only reason we are scum reading you is that you are the logical source for the info Titus had that she shouldn't have. We otherwise both have read your play as townish. I get where you're coming from but you seem really angry that we're going where the evidence leads, even when we tell you that we fully expect further evidence to be more likely to make you look town than scum. We can't know that until it happens, but we've both expressed that we feel that way.

I can look through Titus' game history and every time she is scum she has a remarkable ability to wriggle out of getting lynched. I don't want that to happen here.

i have the ability to lock her down if she gets out of hand.

stop being a dick to your teammates.

Please note that my personal tendency is that I try not to intentionally start fights with people or get into name calling. When people come after me first with sarcasm and name calling, I respond to them with the same. I don't start the fight, but if someone wants to start one with me, I'm not obligated to just take it and say nothing back.

Just so you understand rr.
There are 2 players that are doing fuck all you called town.
I don't think the way out that you did but for 2 players you call town based on that. They are useless and one I'm used to doing that, the other is a better player then this and I'll be even more blunt.
If this game has one alternate win condition I'm unaware of I will be pissed.

I 100% agree with you that Xtoxm is barely doing anything. Mastin was a driving force on the Maxwell lynch so I can't agree with you that she has done "fuck all" or been "useless". And I think I already pointed out, as clearly as possible, that I am not saying that Cooldog is town. I believe that he might potentially be town and his play could make sense if he were the town doctor that a strongman implies should exist. Cooldog needs to be pressured ... if he ever shows up to be pressured.

Just because logic dictates that Xtoxm and Mastin can't be on the scum team that had alliance blocking and strongman, and we therefore remove them from the suspect list, does

not

mean we believe they should be up for townie of the game awards. It's not a binary thing where if we believe someone is town we think they have been super townie and helpful to town.

And yes, we're quite aware that one of them could be a third party role with a different wincon. We just don't see a way to figure out which of them it would be. The only source of info we have on Xtoxm's role, for example, is Titus ... so that's suspect.

We're open to suggestions on figuring out if either of them are 3rd party. They're not going to just come out and say so, since 3rd parties are (justifiably) policy lynches on this site.

[Reasonably Rational]

RR, try explaining how frogger was able to jailkeep farside earlier in the game (which got him caught, otherwise you would continue happily stonewalling us )

did he do it randomly? guesswork?

Did Fro99er jailkeep her? My understanding was that he used his ability to stop her from doing an alliance/fusion. Cerb and I assumed farside was a gem from pretty early on because she referred to the day PTs as "fusions" considerably more frequently than other words. We didn't think it made sense to call attention to that, but if we saw it, doesn't it seem likely that scum also would catch it?

Also, you need to stop about Fro99er. Farside didn't reveal at the start of the day that someone had stopped her from allying/fusing, and his fake claim lined up with what we had as far as claim and flavor from Xtoxm which was similar in nature. It turns out his claim was fake, ergo we got fooled by a fake claim. Going after us over it repeatedly is just poor form, especially since we were on to Maxwell straightaway yesterday (verified by people in the PT where I was on him like a fat kid on a twinkie).


Also, I just got word that my Grandfather died in his sleep a few hours ago, so I'm very likely to be taking a sitewide V/LA because mafia just doesn't seem really worth anything at the moment by comparison. I hope you all have a better day than I will.

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm just going to quote what the mod posted about the ability that frogger had that rr is mid remembering.

During the Climax phase, you may target a player--if that player is a Gem, they will be unable to be killed or perform any actions during the Climax phase.
This effect will also and any

FUSION

that player is a part of.
This ability has no effect on Human or Other characters.

I bolded the important part.
Also if someone who is rr actual read the start of day 3 I said I wasn't in an alliance at the start with vezo. I think the mod got confused when frogger targetted me.

I didn't misremember at least. I just assumed the ability was intended to stop all alliances and fusions, and was not properly expressed in the role pm.

He may have been confused though.

Varsoon: Was Fro99ers jail keep intended to prevent all alliances with them from occurring, or JUST fusions?

Sonic X: Titus' VCA is already partially done, and has been for 7 days. She posted it into our pt and wanted to discuss it with us. She obviously hadn't analyzed yesterday yet, but the other days are, I would assume, largely completed. Also....in that same pt...she pointed out to us that because it's hard to vote to confuse vca and to analyze it without implicating herself as scum, she will delay in posting it for as long as possible.

Anyways, lol sonic, you realize what you posted included a buncha info, and could confuse the matter? :/ I mean, if it comes back positive, then that's awesome....but if it comes back negative, you left yourself room to argue against it.

Oh. And our Mastin/Xtoxm thing? That only falls apart if titus is third party/this is multiball.

-Cerb

Pedit: yes fuzzy.

TW: we're gonna lynch you today, and I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but there are simply too many other possibilities in a large theme game for you to know exactly what his role did. He could have had a power that recharged when he was targeted. He could have just known who used what on him, and not copied it. He could have been some sort of weird thing that marked people who visited him in some way, in order to enable some other ability. I mean, those are unusual roles, but he could have had any of them. You knew exactly which one it was, and that is a problem.

Also, I have no knowledge of your scum play, and I'm not afraid of it. I'm advocating your lynch because you knew things you had no reasonable way of knowing with any certainty if you were town.

[Reasonably Rational]

Fuzzy, can you tell us exactly what your motivate does? Does it restore one shot? One shot of one ability? One shot to all abilities? All shots to all abilities? All shots to one ability? :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

The prior posts since I said something about my grandfather were all from Cerb. This is probably the last time I'll post today as I've got a lot on my mind and a lot of things clustered at the end of this month and beginning of September, on top of now a very personal loss to deal with. I have confidence Cerberus will be awesomesauce.

we've only see abilities that are one shot or unlimited shot, so ha ha.

yeah i want to know too

We have multiple abilities. They're awesome. We haven't shared what they are and see no reason to. One thing the town might find useful to know is that we can confirm abilities exist which have more than 1-shot but are not unlimited. That may be useful knowledge, especially if someone is claiming to have a 1-shot refills at finale ability when it could be more shots.

who are you going to ally with, RR?

Cerberus will end up making this decision. I would say fuzzy or Cooldog (I'd like a chance to pressure Cooldog, and he would have no excuse not to full and honestly claim to us so...)

you guys should sort alliances up. i think this day is a wrap fairly quickly.

if tw flips town... we can blame rr.

Yep. We spent a lot of time trying to find evidence

against

the case, because that's the most appropriate way to use rational thought and logic. Be rigorous and try to tear down your own theories. If we are wrong, it won't be because we were lazy or stupid or didn't do our due diligence.

not like they care

We'll care quite a lot actually.


Love, for real,
Drixx

P.S. - I hope everyone has a really good day. I'm not even going to be lurking and I think I'm going to just go out and spend some time somewhere nice and leave my phone and worries at home and just be alone for awhile.

[Reasonably Rational]

If we are wrong, it won't be because we were lazy or stupid or didn't do our due diligence.

if you are wrong, its because you made an assumption that you shouldn't have made, as titus would always tell me.


hope you're doing well drixx. cerb will probably be awesomesauce.

speaking of titus, where is she? has she given up?

She said she would post her vca earlier tonight/later today. It is weird that she isn't here though, and neither is TSO. She did say she felt like there was nothing anyone could do but sheep us. :/ Like farside. Which sucks. I don't especially like having that effect on the game.

And yes, I won't be answering that question.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Sonic - Both of our heads have gone out of our way to say that the evidence

currently

points to you as the most likely source of the knowledge that Titus had which she shouldn't have had. We've both said we fully expect that we have to update that when we see the flip.

Obviously the assertion that Titus just magically guessed because you wanted to be targeted by abilities is just absurd. Firstly, she posted with absolute certainty exactly what your ability was going to do (give you fuzzy's refill ability). Even if we assume she somehow magically guessed it and was somehow so certain ... why would a town Titus out that information publicly when up to that point you were claiming just Gladiator? When town, Titus goes literally

crazy

when it comes to rolefishing or outing roles. So even if I accept the absurd premise that out of a huge amount of possible reasons you might want to be targeted, Titus somehow gleaned exactly what your ability was and was so sure of the guess to speak of it with certainty, there's still Titus acting out of character. It appears to be a legit scum slip, which are actually remarkably uncommon, especially from experienced players.

So Titus got that knowledge from somewhere. You told Mastin who told Xtoxm and us. We didn't tell Titus. Logically, Mastin and Xtoxm (despite being a total lurksack and giving zero effort) can't be on the same team as the two scum we have seen that flipped. One of them could be 3rd party (Xtoxm would be my bet if there is a 3rd party), or there could be a 2nd scum team, but we have basically no evidence of a 2nd scum team. The extra kill we saw came at season finale, and until it happens again, it should probably be assumed we have one scum team and that they get an extra kill at the finale (which we should be careful to account for).

That leaves you as the source of Titus having that information,

assuming Titus has been honest that she has 1-shot of rolecop that gets refilled on the season finale

. It seems to me more likely that she either has more shots and could have used it on you to get your role, or that a scum partner actually has the rolecop ability, or some other possibility that is less likely but still possible.

So would you kindly (hope you get the reference) please stop being so irritated that we feel the evidence,

as it currently stands

, points to you ... and instead focus on letting your actions speak for you. There are frankly at least 2 or 3 people who by play output considerably worse reads than you. There's no need to be on the super defensive, especially when we've been quite clear that it's simply a question of where Titus got that information. New information means updating priors and re-evaluating things.

I also disagree, heavily, with the idea that if someone gets one read wrong, they are automatically rubbish forever. That's absurd. Almost every game ever on site has featured town vs. town tunnels and people who got some reads wrong but later at crunch time came through and got it right (and vice versa). Not that we expect them to be very eager to confirm this, but Cerberus was there also and can confirm that I was on Maxwell two nights ago and immediately pressured him in our alliance. Mastin did some heavy lifting on that lynch, but there's objective evidence that I had him as a scum read and pushed him (and he didn't respond well at all).

The point here is that we didn't know for sure that scum would have convincing fake claims until Fro99er flipped, and if you go back and re-read my posts, I was arguing to let him explain himself. I hadn't really decided one way or the other when I clicked submit on the post where I was basically saying "hold your horses ... him visiting someone who didn't die doesn't automatically make him scum. Let him explain himself" and saw that he had hammered himself. I don't know if I would have decided he was scum if he had continued to try to explain things away and stay alive, or if I would have believed him ultimately. The biggest problem with trying to use logic to figure out the game is that there is so little that you can safely assume or that you know for sure in the early game. One of the great things about forum mafia is that we all approach it a little bit differently,

so a town who works together has many strengths

to help cover up individual weaknesses.

So if you really are town, Sonic, then just chill and let's eradicate the scum and win this. "It's not so bad once you get use to it!"

Serious Steven...

ACTIVATE!

Love,
Drixxy Poo

P.S. - Anyone have any ideas how to get Cooldog and Xtoxm to engage more so we can figure them out? I'm especially concerned about a possible Survivor in a LYLO situation... or an even more harmful 3rd party.

[Reasonably Rational]

You win the game when all threats to the Beach City Residents have been defeated and at least one Beach City Resident is alive.

You know that's not good enough.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I knda want to chill with either Xtoxm or Hermit tonight,,,,, what do you think RR

I think you should ally us tonight and motivate us. And hermit can join that pt if he'd like to.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

The snide commentary is unnecessary. I actually still have no reason to even think you actually have a gladiate.

-Ceeb

[Reasonably Rational]

Don't see what's the hurry? Would rather hear things from the replacement at any rate.

Agreed. No hurry imo. People seem to just like to rush the day end cause they get bored.

Xtoxm grapes
RR fuzzy, with hermit invited if he wants.
Sonic farside

What else is happening alliance wise?

[Reasonably Rational]

Hm, so it looks like the only alliance left possible is mastin with the CoolDog replacement?

-Ceeb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, sonic.you need to fix that post I quoted. Your should be my. Then it's unquestionable what you're saying.

[Reasonably Rational]

Lol. I mean, "You" should be "I".

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm really just waiting for sonic to make the change I pointed out before we end the day, since it seems clear that TW won't be posting their VCA, barring the introduction of coldogs replacement.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Sonic seems to thnk he shouldn't gladiate because he should save his shot. I disagree.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

That is true. I'm just wary of Sonic. *shrug*

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I never check people's activity on the board. Like ever. Don't care. Either you're posting in the game I'm playing with you or you're not. And, I'm not going to shit all over it if you're town? That's the whole point. As town, I'd expect you to want to get as much information out as possible before you died.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It's fine if you don't want to do that though, it's your life. I hope whatever is keeping you busy in real life goes well.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Grapes who are you allied with right now?

Thanks Sonic, you know that matters so don't be like that. I now know a number of things, unless reasons, so thanks.

Hermit, xtoxm, are you guys allied right now?

Klingon, why has your slot been so useless all game? :p Any questions I can answer to help you get into this game, I'm mod confirmed town so at least you know I'm not lying to you, but I could be wrong of course.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Regarding CoolDog, I'd like to ally him and get his claim...

-Cerb

-Cerb

Okay, that was Friday and it's Wednesday now, but if you're still interested I'd be happy to ally with you.

I think the Fuzzy plan is better for now. Is there a reason you won't ally with Mastin (who, btw is almost certainly town if TW flips the same scum team as the previously revealed acum.) Also, your claim should happen sooner rather than later....like flavor, at the very least.

RR can you explain the rationale of "inviting Constantine to crash"?

I'm really glad you trust us enough to believe we have a good reason for it. We don't really see any reason to share that reasoning; however, if Constantine does join us, we may have something to say about it tomorrow.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

So Titus is sloshing wine all over the place. That will be interesting to sort through.

Sonic just gladiate already. You realize we're going to just make you gladiate whomever we collectively believe most likely to be scum tomorrow to prove you weren't lying about it, mostly because you claim to be a special snowflake who doesn't have Steven Universe quotes to activate while everyone else so far has had SU quotes to activate abilities.

Also, it sort of seems ridiculous to end the day when we finally have a legitimately somewhat active player on the Cooldog slot, so of course we're not in a hurry to end it.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

That was fun. If it's any consolation, TW, the doc shot you gave us WAS pretty convincing.

Xtoxm, there's never any reason to vote on wagons when you're an IC unless the wagon isn't happening for some reason. By voting on a wagon as an IC, you are having the same effect as if scum self hammered. You deny town one more associative.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

No, my point is valid regardless of yours. The two aren't even points about the same subject. Sure, it'll be harder to lynch scum, but I know I'm active enough that a lynch will never fail to happen because I'm not voting.

Team's too big for multiball. Yay for Titus wine.

I also don't count quite that many mason pairings, but maybe you know even more things I don't.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ah wel, it was worth a try. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

<3 Titus, I'm sorry I caught you cuz I like you, but not sorry cause it helps my team win. :p

Klingoncelt, are you going to add any notable content today or can we just end it and move on?

Fuzzy, you do understand what you're doing tonight and to what exactly, correct?

HERMIT ANSWER ME DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT ATTEMPT TO ALLY WITH XTOXM LAST NIGHT!!


-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Kinda both. I mean, just those quick questions answered, and screw waiting for Klingon to answer why he doesn't wanna ally with mastin. :/ which he should still do btw.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

You cannot ally with Mastin. That...is almost certainly untrue...it seems more likely you are choosing to not ally with Mastin because of history of some sort I assume. Alright. That's fine. I'm sorry, but allying with Fuzzy must be done.

On the plus side, I could ally with you tomorrow, and there's like 0% chance scum shoot you, because you're an easy mislynch! :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah yeah ugh. 4222. Got it. Feel free to vote for TW, I doubt there will be any further meaningful interactions.

VOTE: Trench Warfare

Good night everyone. Alliances are all worked out. I guess.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hmm. Fuzzy, what's going on? Have results? Also sonic, your claim does kinda suck, and barring you getting cleared, the only reasonable sequence of events that would give scum another source of role copping would be your power if it was used on you N1, soooo it still doesn't make sense that TW knew your power, and nothing in their flip exonerated you.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

soooo it still doesn't make sense that TW knew your power, and nothing in their flip exonerated you.

this is kind of sad in the fact that it was proven that TW was lying about their rolecop claim and also their activation methods.

Yes, but they weren't lying in any of the ways that clear you. They told the truth about the number of shots they had, and their recharge. That was the important part. The people they role copped, xtoxm and mastin, are logically not scum because of the reasons we have presented before, repeatedly. Since they were not scum, TW knew their role after copping them in thread, and it makes little sense for scum to have multiple role copsTW used their cops on them, as they claimed...which means there were no cops available to use on you.

Similarly, fuzzy lie detector indiscretion didn't matter(and would have been unnecesary if you hadn't made a huge post filled with stuff that could have falsely triggered or made the result null, and then made your post obvious but incorrect, and then finally did it the most obvious way. Protip, next time someone who is accusing you of being scum wants a lie detector used on you without sxum knowing, just say. "RR is wrong about me being aligned with the scum team. I am blah blah blah", it's not great but it's way better than what happened)since we killed the scum jailkeeper, and yes, though it is possible they have another straight role blocker perhaps, for reasons we're not going to reveal, it is unlikely. Thus, fuzzy wasn't getting blocked, and given the nature of a lie detector(targeting a post, not a player)I find it unnlikely anything short of a roleblock ir kill will actually stop it. So, we need to see what fuzzy results were.

Anywaus point is the thngs that exonerate you were TW flipping non yellow diamond, TW not flipping rolecop, or TW'S rolecop having more shots than they told us. None of those happened.

What other reasonable explanation is there? Emphasis on the reasonable and application of the Razor.

-Cerb

Pedit: I think farside was killed because it was a safe kill to make. I'm an obvious target, so was fuzzy, and so are xtoxm and mastin because it's nearly impossible for them to be scum. You're a easy mislynch if town with the current situation, cooldog and Constantine are super easy mislynches...and that leaves farside. Difficult mislynch, but not an obvious kill target.

[Reasonably Rational]

Grapes would have been a reasonable one too, but grapes has that miller claim in a game which hasn't shown any regular cops yet weighing them down. Miller in a game without a regular cop is a meaningless modifier, making it more likely to be a fake claim of miller early for cop protection.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, I hate mobile posting. Sorry for the mistakes above.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

There is also the associative of the only people TW invented to, besides the doc invent to us, were Maxwell( I think?????) and yourself, Sonic. It's kinda weak, but if they invented to anyone else they didn't say...and those were the invention s they WANTED to make sure we knew about.
-Cerb

Pedit:

Sonic: here's the problem, if ANYTHING in that long paragraph could return an I don't know result, or a false negative, then it will, and you don't know if it was because you lied about your alignment!

I'm assuming she rolecopped mastin because she thought she could force through a lynch on mastin as a result of them not conftowning, and they rolecopped xtoxm at my bequest, almost certainly as part of a long term ploy to gain our trust.

And yes, your role was theoretically guessable, but it wasn't THE ONLY reasonable option. She didn't guess it. I listed multiple reasons why you might want to be targeted in a previous post.

Also, TW KNEW the two weren't identical, because they were aware of and pointed out that mastins voteless was a modifier. The quotes you posted are meaningless because they don't match up with the actual results given.

Anyways, it seems your defense is one of xtoxm and mastin is scum? Is that what you're going with?

[Reasonably Rational]

If TW flipped non yellow diamond then the logical progression that established xtoxm and Mastin as town (that scum would not be given knowledge of who steven was on D3, based on a number of factors), would no longer apply, because it was based upon the abilities we had already seen in fro99er and maxwells flips. The team with THOSE powers could not be given that knowledge, but an unrelated faction could.

Stop trying to spar with me here, you're wrong and clearly haven't even read the previous points made about these subjects, since you'd know your point was already addressed and shown to be wrong already if you had.

If you were theoretically conftown? Dunno. Maybe fuzzy depending on what he gets back to me with. As I see it, today we lynch either fuzzy or you, I don't think aNY one else makes much sense. And grapes claimed miller in like the third post of the game

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I think Constantine thinks your scum, and knows at least I'll be voting with him against you, and I think everything with TW bailIng you was theatre planned during the long silence in your scum PT.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Sonic: SHE KNEW THE ABILITYS WERE DIFFERENT. She just tried to argue that adding a voteless modifier to one didn't change them, when it does change them. And no, you did not crumb to titus. I read your iso repeatedly to male sure we didn't fuck up the titus thing and there was nothing in thread that could even tangentially expose the details of your power. There was NOTHING.

Why did you ask me about Constantine if you don't care about him?

-Cerb

Pedit: yes, if he claims your town, and we lynch him, and he is town, you are confirmed town. If he is scum, we just found the rest of the team.

I don't believe you have a gladiate at all, actually, so your point about D4, in addition to being highly likely to out yourself, was also not a thing scum you could have done. I'm very prepared to be wrong about the gladiate thing though. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well, I'm exaggerating a bit about finding the team. He could be scum, claim your town, get himself lynched, and you could still be town. We'd be down to 8 today, 7nk, 5 with 1 scum left if he sacrificed himself like so, so we'd still be one lynch off lylo. Pretty null play overall.

Klingon, you should probably claim like really.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah, the only reason why I think I might be wrong about the gladiate is the fact that it's provable. It's posible though that you're a weak scum rolem, and the intention was to create that 1v1, get you lynched eventually, and give frogger enough town cred to counteract his ascetic and let him coast through the game.

The problem with the Fuzzy thing is we still can't trust him. That's all. You posting what you did in thread as clearly as you did only makes sense in a small number of scenarios, and one of those scenarios has the two of you as scum together, and doesn't explain tw knowing your role.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'll reiterate in the morning at a computer why mastin and xtoxm are town, since you don't seem to understand my reasons, and how they relate to your slot. I'd leave my vote on you right now but I'm cautious, and would rather not leave my vOTE larked.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

As a note, despite Fuzzy's misleading post claiming that Sonic is town coming right after talking about the Lie Detector ability which makes it implicit that Fuzzy actually has an investigative result, Fuzzy did

NOT

use the lie detector last night. I'm on the fence about the implications there, but Fuzzy just tried to tell the game that Sonic was as reliably town as we are, and the implication was that it was because of using the Lie Detector.

It seems to me that it would have been smarter to tell us that he used it and got a "true" back, so the telling us he didn't use it and then posting in the thread and trying to deceive everyone else feels very WIFOMy. Despite having done fairly well to date, there is at least one more scum to kill, and possibly two, and quite a lot of suspects for those spots and very few people that can be put into the town block. A few things need to happen:

1.) Klingon needs to claim. Flavor and role. Period. Refusal to do so will be viewed as admitting that she's scum, at least as far as I'm concerned.

2.) Xtoxm will show me some scum hunting today or I am going to assume he's a third party survivor and thus has to be lynched before MYLO/LYLO. He has been ridiculously uncooperative all game and contributed nothing. The only reason he's not the most negative utility player not likely to be scum is because Vezok literally got his mod confirmed mason partner killed on day one and early locked a lynch when specifically asked not to later.

3.) Sonic will be proving his Gladiate today.


Speaking of Sonic ... didn't you claim that you are like best friends with Titus Sonic? You should be able to read through all those WIFOM posts and tell us what we should conclude from them. Preferably you should evaluate them individually please. Your claim to be so close makes you singularly and particularly well suited to that very necessary task.

As far as we can tell, the Titus head of TW believed that she had us fooled and that we viewed them as part of the town block up until the moment we put the case up. Sonic gets some more scummy points in hindsight for putting a very short clock on the day, as we could have learned a

tremendous

amount more by pushing for a TW lynch without putting a case up first and getting people to commit to a position and make arguments, and only

then

put our case in the thread ... but Sonic decided unilaterally to speed the day up and refused to back off from that. In hindsight we got considerably less info out of yesterday than we should have because of that. Speeding the day up and limiting the info that town can possibly get isn't a town motivated move.

I'll be expecting to see genuine effort from Sonic at solving the game and finding scum, and if either head balks, I will view that as strong evidence that they are scum.

That's all from me for now.

Love, even though I'm being a hard ass,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Scum win games all the time by doing things that people in the game say they would never do. You aren't setting the agenda because frankly you are the scummiest looking player in the game. Why aren't you dead? If you and Sonic are both town, wouldn't scum want to keep the town block from growing? Why aren't scum afraid of us getting our powers refilled? Too much about your play and what is happening just doesn't add up.

Mastin and Xtoxm are logically eliminated from being on the scum team that we've seen flips from, so they aren't on the list, although Xtoxm being a survivor or some other 3rd party (perhaps something new and interesting Varsoon cooked up?) wouldn't surprise me. The fact that you are including them in the list is high suspect.

In fact, you have no reason to exclude grapes from the list, but grapes isn't there. You have no real reason to lynch Hermit or Klingon either.

Until Sonic and Xtoxm and Klingon do what I asked of them, they are on the lynch list,

along with you

. Presuming you are town (which seems increasingly less likely), you could have used the ability, told only us the result and suggested a plan for making scum think you still had the ability available. Instead, you think that your sole judgment about what a scum Sonic would or would not do should dictate the entire outcome of the game, when you are one of the top scum suspects. We had a plan, you didn't keep to it, and you tried to lie to the town.

In fact, I'm pretty sure you didn't forget grapes, and yet you have no reason or evidence to believe grapes is town enough to exclude from your supposed "One scum is in this list" list.

Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have another legit scum slip.

Two in one game. Fuzzy has no reason to believe that grapes is town so firmly that he excludes them from the proposed lynch list, especially when that proposed lynch list includes two people who simply cannot logically be on the scum team. I've been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt all game, but methinks you just slipped very hard.

Die, scum, die,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Sonic, just because you reached the conclusion that mastin and xtoxm are not does not invalidate the reasoning which we used to clear them. That same reasoning reaches the opposite conclusion about you in the event TW flipped as they did.

Fuzzy...that's terrible. There is absolutely no reason why town wouldn't use that power. You said you expected to be dead in our pt....if you expect to be dead, WHY NOT USE THE POWER CAUSE IF YOU'RE DEAD YOU CAN'T!!! And, since you believed that, you clearly believed that there was value for town to be gained from using your power...but you didn't.

Also, in the thread itself....you KNOW we received a doc protect. You should not have expected to die last night. Maybe roleblocked, but not death.

Anyways, regardless of the further evidence of fuzzy being scum, we need to lynch sonic now.

Hey Grapes, guess why scum sonic doesn't wanna gladiate? Because he now feels there's a risk he'll lose and be lynched instead. Probably the same reason why he didn't gladiate to save MP...still loss of an extra scum role, MP would still get lynched(but maybe another day, after sonic), and it's suspicious enough he'd be at risk of dying as a result.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fuzzy, tell me how TW could have known his powers. Something plausible. That's all I really want. Her knowledge of his powers and how it functioned, in detail,with certainty, is DAMNING. You should have expected a doc protect because TW said they had invented a doc protect to me, and I had confirmed it. AND because there was a strongman on the scum team, which implies the existence of protective roles controlled by the town.

I'm not even tunneling. I have a single, extremely strong piece of evidence that sonic is scum, and several more circumstantial pieces of evidence, and nothing anyone has said, and none of the evidence in the thread, has given me a reason to believe my piece of strong evidence is incorrect.

Because I'm at a computer, I'll lay this out for you guys one more time

1) Sonic told Mastin his powers
2) Mastin told us about Sonic's powers in our D3 alliance.
3) The pool of people who knew Sonic's powers is RR, Sonic, Mastin, Xtoxm
4) TWscum knows sonics power, in spite of not being part of said pool. Someone in that pool told TWscum, or they rolecopped.
5) TWscum used their rolecops, on two town slots(see below), and thus did not have a rolecop to use on Sonic.
6) RR is conftown, leaving Sonic, Mastin, Xtoxm
7) Scum had both a gem centric repeatable roleblock, and a strongman kill on N4. RR is conftown on D5. It does not make any sort of sense to give scum knowledge of who the main character is, when scum would infer said role is both a gem, and very strong, and thus enable them to repeatably roleblock him all game long, and/or kill him before his conftown power was designed to go off. Therefore, xtoxm and mastin are town.
8) The only remaining reasonable source for TW's information is Sonic. You can argue that TW "figured it out," but TW wouldn't have "figured it out" to the degree of accuracy displayed in thread from the information presented in the thread. There is no reason for TW to think he copied powers. Perhaps he was purely a watcher. Perhaps he reflexively doc protected people who targeted him. Perhaps perhaps perhaps. There are so many possible reasons beyond the role copying that it's laughable to think that TW's information came from anything less than a full claim or a role cop.

VOTE: Sonic X

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also holy shit I didn't even realize NIC CAGE FUCKING CAME BACK TO THE GAME FULLY FUNCTIONING WTF NOW WE HAVE 2 LITERAL CONFTOWN AND 2 IMPLICIT CONFTOWN.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yes, that's been the situation since yesterday Fuzzy. That is why I wanted you to LD him.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Everyone has character claimed in thread except for grapes, I believe.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah, I'm really sorry about that Klingon. I was expecting fuzzy to at least carry on with the plan.

Why didn't you investigate anyone last night? That....seems really bad.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well, it just says he has returned, he's in the living player list, and he counts towards the vote requirements....and it's a flavor thing.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Bleh. Well, unfortunately your pool is the same as mine, basically, except I feel pretty good about grapes as town now that you've revealed your a cop, so their miller claim is no longer out of place.

-Cerb

Pedit: pretty much. Unless we've been completely played by some people, it'd pretty wrapped up. So yeah, vote sonic with me k? But not quite yet, I like letting people talk.