Mini Normal 1719 - Flavorless Fun! [Game Over!]

[Dwlee99]

Garmr's ISO (12 posts):


21: RVS on BBT.
24: "Honestly don't see anything scummy so far." Most debated quote this game, I don't see it as scummy it's just a general statement scum and town make.
69: Fluff about his pet name for BBT.
72: Myko is "Reaching" according to Garmr. Votes myko for using honestly as a scum tell against him (which it's not, imo) but says he is reaching. (I feel like it's myko trying to figure out the game and not a scumtell. It's null/town lean to me)
88: Asks me if I am town reading myko.
92: Says I shouldn't be attacking the wagon and insists the stretching reads is a scum tell.
95: Still insists it's scummy. Tells me I shouldn't attack a wagon unless I "town read them for multiple reasons".
96: Says that myko's only case is the word honestly when it involves the possible buddying as well. Threat kind of thing saying "if you keep attacking me you're gonna get lynched". Says "Reading people as scum for voting you is pretty pathetic." because myko says it was about time scum joined his wagon and that his reasons for getting on were weak.
171: Claims power role.
173: "Tip look through myko's iso" in response to myko saying "Who wants to play 'Find the scum tell'"
177: Saying 'just lynch me I'm not an important power role just bulletproof townie' and says that they didn't think "anyone would be that retarded and mentally handicapped to follow with myko because of the word honestly." when there was no pressure on him to claim which power role he was since he had claimed a power role.
178: V/LA for two days might be 'a bit more motivated' when they come back.

I don't like 96's "push my lynch and die" mentality, the insistence on myko's iso being full of scum tells (when I am thinking myko as town lean) or the claim (177).

He's a scum lean for me right now because he's posting tons of one/two-liners and nothing more as well as what I mentioned above.

And would it slow down a wagon if someone was like "I'm a bulletproof role cop that has 100 investigations a night as well as can shoot the same night as my investigations after I get them, but don't worry I'm not important." Bulletproof townie is an important role. If there's a doctor you can easily prevent a mislynch turning into scum win on mylo by the doctor self-healing and the bp not being able to be killed.

[herrcombs]

@ DWL: why did you feel the need to make that post? Like... you literally just opened Garmr's ISO, summarized each post, and added barely any analysis to it... And the last paragraph is just fluffy speculation.

[pistachi0n]

Bulletproof townie is an important role. If there's a doctor you can easily prevent a mislynch turning into scum win on mylo by the doctor self-healing and the bp not being able to be killed.

Wait, how does that work? You're assuming nobody's shot the bp, the doctors are allowed to self target, and there are no vanilla townies left.

[implosion]

Doctors typically can't self-target on mafiascum.

Regardless: what's important isn't whether or not bp is a useful role; it's Garmr's perception of it. Garmr clearly perceives it to not be a useful role based on the way he claimed, unless he's lying about that, and that would be an extremely strange thing to lie about as scum.

[mykonian]

I'm particularly interested to see mykonian's take on the claim, incidentally.

I dislike that it was lead by a softclaim.

I call bullshit on his mention that he doesn't mind to be lynched: then what was the purpose of a claim there?

[Keyser Söze]

Tbh you can lynch me I'm not really an important power role just a bullet proof townie I was trying to draw attention to get someone to night kill me with a soft power role claim before but now I don't really care. My care factor for this game is zero. Because I didn't think anyone would be that retarded and mentally handicapped to follow with myko because of the word honestly.

Regarding Garmr's roleclaim:
I disagree with the 'Bulletproof Townie' role being "not really an important role" - it's a role a townie usually wouldn't full-claim (so that they attract the night-kill) - scum would already know he's town so now they won't target him at night - thus, to full role-claim at L-4 is anti-town/scummy.
However, Garmr has now set himself up for both an investigation and policy-lynch (

scum would not have strong-motivation to do that

).

I'm particularly interested to see mykonian's take on the claim, incidentally.

I dislike that it was lead by a softclaim.

I call bullshit on his mention that he doesn't mind to be lynched: then what was the purpose of a claim there?

Yes, I had a null-read on his soft-claim because it was soft-claim

under pressure

(very defensive town/very defensive scum)

[mykonian]

I think by now I know what that post says.

I still don't understand what you mean by it.

[Dwlee99]

Yay, people who agree it was stupid to claim. I felt he need to make that post to get my thoughts organized. And my analysis isn't just bad, there's not much to talk about in his ISO. He hasn't done any real scum hunting, the most he's done with that is vote myko because of stretched reads.

[mykonian]

yup. We should lynch him.

[Lalendra]

Really not a fan of the claim or the weird emotional outburst so early in the game. It's not that intense yet. I will wait and see what happens after his two-day hiatus though before I decide.

[mykonian]

nonono

you are going to post some more

[Lalendra]

I can post more. What would you like to discuss?

[mykonian]

there's been 9 pages of stuff. Pick something. Not just a wishy washy post about how you can't make a decision yet.

[herrcombs]

However, Garmr has now set himself up for both an investigation and policy-lynch (scum would not have strong-motivation to do that).

My point exactly. And what more does pushing his wagon accomplish? He's already claimed his role, and I am baffled by how many people just want to lynch him already a week and a half before the deadline.

[Dwlee99]

51 posts from myko, 4 from lalendra. Just to put this into perspective. Lalendra also has cited myko's 'stretched reads' as scummy.
"This is reaching and he has yet to respond to multiple people questioning it.

VOTE: mykonian"
Lack of real posts from Lalendra except for this one. And I disagree with the reasoning in this except myko not really responding to people questioning it. (which I don't remember noting at the time)

[Lalendra]

Most of myko's posts have been crap. I'm not into posting fluff. When I have something to say, I'll say it. Yeah there's 9 pages, but most of it is garbage, and we still have plenty of time left in this day phase, so I'm waiting for more developments.

[Dwlee99]

You haven't done any scum hunting, though. That's my point.

[Lalendra]

There's a difference between not scum hunting, and just not posting walls and pointless read-lists. If you have questions I'll answer them, but I typically wait until I feel like I have a solid case on someone before I say something, rather than making lists of leans and nulls.

[mykonian]

Most of myko's posts have been crap. I'm not into posting fluff. When I have something to say, I'll say it. Yeah there's 9 pages, but most of it is garbage, and we still have plenty of time left in this day phase, so I'm waiting for more developments.

And somehow I have 2 cases out there, 2.5 scumreads I have talked about, found a couple of townreads of which some I've mentioned that. Of the three current wagons, I've spawned 2, and the third is people pushing back on me. I daresay the above gives an unfair impression of either my efforts, as well as the opportunities lalendra had to post "something worth saying".


Re: herr. I think it's a fakeclaim, given the way it's set up and the air of not caring around the actual claim. Although I would like to hear more from lalendra, haschel and possible pistache, I don't see why you'd want to go to a deadline when you've found the lynch you wanted 3 days in. Garmr is still on 4 votes, it'll take a little longer before it would actually be finished, but at that point I'm happy with this day. As mentioned above, I've got a set of reads so far and am quite content. I do not understand the notion of slowing down because there's more time available.

[herrcombs]

Because if you're wrong, then you end the day early with a mislynch without much contribution from several other players. Because it deprives town of information that we could use to figure out who was actually town on his wagon and who was scum trying to push the mislynch. Because if he's actually BP, then we've quicklynched a PR while learning jack shit and making tomorrow that much more difficult. Because if you're town and are the strongest proponent of his mislynch, then it draws even more suspicion onto yourself and makes you all the more likely to be a mislynch target.

I am a cautious player by nature. If there's a clearly scummy player, then I don't want to delay the wagon for no reason. But the possibility that we mislynch a PR is not something I am that gung-ho about Day 1, especially with so little discussion happening beforehand.

[mykonian]

Do you actually believe we've learned jack shit so far, or is that just a figure of speech?

Idk, I don't see this wagon completing tomorrow (though I wouldn't mind it), simply because of the active players they are sitting partially on another viable wagon (hier), partially they are opposed (garmr-lalendra). Then there's a bunch inactive (feli-haschel for example). So before we actually get stuff together to push it through, you'll have at least a week of game time, probably more. I don't think there's any reason for panic, but in similar light I don't see why it's such an issue to voice ones intention to see this wagon through to the end.

Before that time simply given logistics, you'll have had most people talk, or they've had their opportunity. The fact that Lalendra doesn't want to post anything substantial is information in itself. There's no reason to conciously hit the breaks.

[herrcombs]

Figure of speech; comparatively, we're 4 days into a 14 day D1, so what we know now is "jack shit" compared to the discussion that has yet to happen.

I don't want to argue this back and forth with you, because I am still learning how the pace of these games run, and others need to chime in and start contributing. I won't be on much this weekend (family visiting from out of town), but I'll catch up early next week once they're gone.

[mykonian]

This game hasn't been normal, pace-wise. Don't worry.

[Dwlee99]

Okay lalendra, here's some questions:

What's your opinion on Garmr's play?

What's your opinion on the claim?

What do you think of Keyser? (Yes I'm still on that)

[Felissan]

Mod, could we get a votecount? I'm starting to get consused right now.

Since the last time I could be active in-thread, mykonian has pretty much redeemed himself - I can see how him being trigger-happy on the early-game poking is just a tactic to get more info, and he's pretty much done his best to shape the debate to encourage people to be more active and speak of the important topics. I'd still like him to answer some questions that were asked a long time ago, and some posts still feel unnecessary in the middle... (I'm looking at you, 172...)
UNVOTE: mykonian

I've definitely got a scum read on Garmr now, but I'll put it on the back burner for now - I'll wait for it to be really blatant before wanting him dead, we wouldn't want to lose a legit PR if it turns out we're wrong, even if it's just a BP.
My read comes from a few points: first, his original mykonian vote just felt overly defensive, and he stood on the wagon for no more explicit reasons than that early read from him. Second, he's been pretty agressive about the myko wagon, in particular with 96 and 173 - it sounds like he expects people to join his wagon for great justice without even considering the fact that we may have different reads on myko, which just sounds like a lazy approach to scum-hunting. And of course, his claim was just the icing on the cake - spontaneously claiming a PR is apparently not something that's particularly scummy, but if he was meaning to soft-claim in 96, why did he immediately claim when questionned about it? And why did he claim BP right after that, even though it breaks the whole purpose of being one?

For now, my vote will go somewhere completely different...
VOTE: Hieirama
The wording in some of his posts just has a feel of uneasy scum (constantly insisting on whether his play is scummy or not, worrying too much about not doing enough) - I mainly think of these lines:

I made that readlist, you're right, to contribute a little bit more than a one-liner. I'm not sure how that's scum-oriented?

Scum can casually give opinions on recent events too, though, its not just a Town thing.

-snip-

Kind of. I'll restate it: "I'll attempt to form an analysis even though I don't fully get what's going on, because it's much better than lurking around."

I'd like to put a bit more pressure on him, hence my vote.