In post 399, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Dwlee, you should absolutely vote for Pistachion. We're approaching the point of the game where we need a flip to progress further.
this is where I want herr to come in to complain about quicklynches and how there's more info to be gained
Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.
In post 399, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Dwlee, you should absolutely vote for Pistachion. We're approaching the point of the game where we need a flip to progress further.
this is where I want herr to come in to complain about quicklynches and how there's more info to be gained
Nah, that takes a PR hard claim for me to freak out the way I did.
I'm only half joking. This is my third game on site, and I don't believe I've ever seen a scum fakeclaim a PR before. Thus my trepidation when it comes to lynching people who have already hard-claimed a PR.
In post 374, herrcombs wrote:Dier's 231: He says "Garmr claimed BP. I dislike this." but what he said after that doesn't follow. "I don't want to say that it's so obviously a bad idea for a Town player that it could only come from a Town player, but..." seems like fence sitting, why not give an opinion one way or another which way you view?
Sorry, I was unclear--I'm reading Garmr as Town (see my 360 for clarification). I was saying that I dislike reading people as Town for counterproductive behavior, but in my experience such behavior does tend to come from Town players.
@ Dier's readlist in 357: What makes you think DWL is town? What's the "English-English translator" think you mentioned in your read of me? Why does your read on Lelandra need to be "referenced against Hieirama's activity?"
Regarding DWL: I think that his attitude towards other players reflects not knowing their alignments. Examples include getting hung up on Keyser "manipulating his posts" (157, 159, 163) and his fight with Mykonian (54, 71, 73, among others). To me, he reads as looking hard for suspicious activity, but he's not really trying to manipulate others into following him; he mostly just calls out things that he finds suspicious.
The "English-to-English translator" thing is when two people either don't hear each other well or don't understand each other well, and a third party that hears and understands both sides (and therefore sees where the miscommunication occurs) interjects and fixes the problem. I was referring to examples like these:
In post 84, herrcombs wrote:because I was pretty sure Garmr's 24 was an indirect reponse to Lalendra's 22, so he was in effect defending me. But "nothing scummy" != "town". Mykonian, why did you claim he was "trying to call someone town" in your 37? I think you should address this.
In post 396, herrcombs wrote:pista was referring to myko here, not Garmr. His null/weak town read was on myko.
That last one is a good question. I don't really remember why I noted that, but it seemed important at the time. I wrote in my notes that I should specifically be referencing Lalendra's 259, which does mention Hieirama:
In post 259, Lalendra wrote:Hieirama – 76 seems like feigned scumhunting, as pointed out by herrcombs in 169. Could just be noobtown, someone who is trying to figure things out but not really sure where to go, but reads more like noobscum. Not a fan of how 180 only addresses one point out of the many questions she could have chosen to respond to, and then goes on to bring us back to Garmr’s 24. At the same time, in more recent posts, she has explained her reasoning, explained that she is new and may not be interpreting everything correctly, and has made some interesting points, so I'm starting to lean more noobtown.
Pistachion's reads were somewhat superficial and certainly selective. In the face of previous lack of content that felt more intentional to me (dropping in for a line or two every now and again but not really engaging in meaningful dialogue--335 is a good example of jumping in briefly and then disappearing for another day), I think that it's enough for a vote.
UNVOTE: Hieirama VOTE: Pistachi0n
Keyser's review also narrowed in on Pistachion quickly. I'd like to see a more complete review from him.
In post 259, Lalendra wrote:Hieirama – 76 seems like feigned scumhunting, as pointed out by herrcombs in 169. Could just be noobtown, someone who is trying to figure things out but not really sure where to go, but reads more like noobscum. Not a fan of how 180 only addresses one point out of the many questions she could have chosen to respond to, and then goes on to bring us back to Garmr’s 24. At the same time, in more recent posts, she has explained her reasoning, explained that she is new and may not be interpreting everything correctly, and has made some interesting points, so I'm starting to lean more noobtown.
What would you make of that quote?
Well, I agree with the first sentence (mainly because I had already made the point earlier, can't even remember if I was the first one to point it out but I doubt it). I think it's a bit sheepy though, especially since I detailed my initial scumread of Hieirama due to a combination of her early posts, and Lalendra just kinda simplified it without adding anything new. I can't precisely follow Lalendra's thought process and read development, especially the phrase "made some interesting points" as a reason for leaning more noobtown. I'm not a big fan of the word "interesting" -- I think it's a buzzword that doesn't really convey an opinion and it's easy to hide behind.
In my reread, I saw some scummy things and some townie things in Lalendra's posts, so this would stick out as an example of the former. I am currently leaning more scum than town on her. I don't like 312, 375, and how they followed the end of her 276. She says she's not a fan of policy lynches, and she unvoted Garmr because it looked like he wasn't going to be anti-town anymore, yet it's her preferred lynch later in 312 and she would "compromise" on Dier as an alternative. If you have an actual scummy read, instead of just a PL target, wouldn't you prefer to lynch scum? Or if you don't have a scumread you feel better about voting, why not scumhunt to find one? I don't understand.
I'm going to disregard pages 14 and 15 for now. It got boring.
What the heck happened here though?
Did the readlist cause the sudden wagon?
What's wrong with it...?
It may not be selective if they actually don't have an opinion about the other players?
Hey, I'm a few pages back but I saw this post yesterday and wanted to respond to it before I get caught up:
Dwlee wrote:This vote is bad because there is no reason to think Lalendra is scum from that post. In my eyes the main way you pressure for reads is by voting them (something that haschel doesn't agree on apparently) because he says "Then don't vote for him, pressure him". Haschel seems to think that Lalendra being interested in a Dier wagon for information is not the proper way too go about it. (even though that is the point of wagons, correct?) Even if what Haschel pointed out is a scum tell it should be a FoS and isn't deserving a vote.
This is probably getting into Philosophy (see sig), but I don't believe that votes are inherently pressureful. In fact, a pressure vote that is explicitly stated to be a pressure vote applies no pressure at all, because the target knows it's not being cast out of a desire to see a lynch. So yeah, when I see somebody apply a self-described pressure vote and then not actually pressure the player, yeah, I think that's scummy. And don't tell me what "should" be an FoS; I think it's worthy of a vote. If you don't, then that fact is duly noted.
Keeping up with the game, not opposed to the pistachi0 lynch but I don't want to vote until we have an official VC. I think BBT's point is legit, we won't learn much more going in circles like this, and the Dier wagon isn't going anywhere.
p-edit: That's actually not a bad point, Haschel. The target won't react properly if they know it's just a pressure vote. But don't you think that if they are close enough to being lynched, it gives the same effect as if it was a real wagon forming? Aren't they under some pressure knowing that their reactions to the votes being cast on them are going to determine whether they turn into real votes or not?
In post 416, Dwlee99 wrote:I just don't understand how you can apply pressure without a vote.
You make an excellent point. That, of course, is why every post in every game consists of two words and only two words - "vote" followed by a player's name.
Wait, "excellent" is the wrong word. I meant "craptacular".
In post 374, herrcombs wrote:I want to see some reads from you or something that looks like you're trying to figure out the game.
Dierfire--Town, seems to be trying to figure people out, questioning people, moving the game along.
Garmr--I'm not as certain of my scumread as I was earlier, when he claimed it seemed like he was making an appeal to emotion but then he came back strong, I thought 242 and after were good.
Haschel--Null, not a lot of stuff, I don't really understand why he voted Lelandra but there's nothing overtly scummy
Implosion--Weak scum, I still think the defense of Garmr was to try to get town points, whether or not Garmr is scum.
Dwlee--Current scumread, early on was asking filler questions, read like he was posting just to post. He has a lot of content but a lot of it is filler.
VOTE: Dwlee
Alright, pistachi0n. Why did you give a read on me? Why did you not give a read on mykonian? And what part of Implosion's defense of Garmr do you take issue with?
In post 393, Keyser Söze wrote:I would like to see pistachi0n explain where Gamr "came back strong", and explain why post 242 was "good".
Most of his posts before 242 were OMGUS or appeals to emotion. The BP claim in particular was a scummy appeal to emotion. 242 he started posting reads and coherent responses.
I am a vanilla townie, I'm an easy mislynch, so be sure to look at my wagon tomorrow. Especially people who jumped on after my reads list like they needed the go-ahead to vote me.
In post 378, Keyser Söze wrote:Looking at her ISO since that vibes-list I cannot see Hieirama pro-actively scum-hunting (a passenger so far).
"This… is my 4th Fourm Mafia game…"
- I will need to look how she scum-hunted/pressed her scum-reads in games 1 to 3.
My main account's name is "Carcalilly", if you'd like to search that up.
I looked up one of your old newbie games (it's finished) - in it you found it hard to put labels or firm town/scum reads on players. You also did not engage in much direct scum-hunting in that game either (asking players questions, looking at wagons...) - this could be your newb-town-meta. You have a playstyle that aims not to offend - which may stop you from pressing someone you find suspicious. But it can be easily newb-scum-play too (not committing to a read to not provoke attention).
Hieirama:
"I usually don't cast votes until I have evidence I'm content with"
