Open 43 - C9+2 GAME OVER before 499

[Setael]

/confirm

[Setael]

vote: thinktank

[Setael]

Wow. Bad blood.

[Setael]

why can't me and ryan agree on something? luker hunting is so pro-town and pro-game that i'm amazed that you really thought about give us a FoS.

This particular "lurker hunting" feels contrived, and pointing it out with the "look how Town I am" plug looks scummy.

Unvote; Vote: Fernando

[Setael]

@MoS: Why did you choose to vote me instead of Deathsauce when we were both voting Fernando for the same reasons?

[Setael]

Post 77:

It seems that Mafia is rather experienced because they have yet to make a noticeable mistakes. I looked through all of the posts, but nothing has popped up yet.

Prime example of something to be said when you are scum needing an excuse to not create a scum list or say anything that might come back to haunt you. Townies are much more willing to point out any little thing they notice.

I don't think that post was worthy of an FOS. Consequently, MoS, your jumping the gun and trying to point out others faults. You did the same with CA, but left out the FOS.

Pointing out others' faults is hardly jumping the gun - it's the only way to scum hunt.

Fernando you seem a little too defensive with your last post. something I think is ungrounded. You FOS'ed me for voting for you when I did the exact opposite. I didn't think that your post was guilt ridden but people jumped on you. Consequently, they seemed suspicious. Your Paranoia seems scummy.

A bit of a contradiction here, since I believe this is Tyler pointing out Fernando's faults...

FOS: Fernando
Vote: MoS

Post 95:

My apologies MoS. You never did FOS anyone. Perhaps you are right and things do take longer here. After all, this is my first game on this specific site.

I still think your are jumping the gun by pointing fingers and making accusations. So as of now, my vote remains.

I will ask though, please be a little less hostile. And if the same can be asked about me, then ask.

This seems like an attempt at peacemaking that he would more likely be motivated to make as scum. A Townie would not care so much to stay in MoS' good graces.

Post 96:

perhaps this will strengthen your opinion of my Newbie status MoS. What is WIFOM.

When I didn't know what WIFOM was, I looked it up instead of using it as a way to get people to not suspect me.

So anyway. I think Tyler's trying a little too hard to avoid suspicion.

vote: TylerJ

[Setael]

while Tylerj defended me

I'll keep that in mind.

[Setael]

Whoops, I forgot to unvote.

Unvote; vote TylerJ

[Setael]

Setael: Setael voted for Fernando for his lurker post. He then made a long post against me on things that weren’t scummy in an attempt to falsely corner me. Also it seems that Setael seems to be lurking with enough posts to keep from being noticed.

First of all, SHE not he.

Second, can you explain to me why you would FOS me instead of voting me if you think all that is true? Seems to me like you're avoiding voting for me because my vote is on you, which I can see scum being very aware of.

[Setael]

Yeah... maybe I'm missing something. My point was that your paragraph about MoS seems to mostly just point out things that seem pro-Town (like the Fernando clarification) whereas your paragraph about me sounds vote-worthy. If you really think I was intentionally writing things "that weren’t scummy in an attempt to falsely corner" you - why didn't you vote me?
Bottom line is, according to your post, your case on me seems a lot better than your case on MoS so it looks scummy not to vote me. The only reason I can see is you avoiding people saying "Tyler just voted Setael because she had voted him. OMGUS vote!" which is, of course, the kind of attention scum would want to avoid.

[Setael]

It kind of makes it look more like OMGUS for you to feel like you need to say "This isn't an OMGUS vote."

[Setael]

Goddamn. If I was mafia with Setael and ChocolateAttack, we'd be the best damn mafia ever. I don't think the three of us have been on the same side of an argument all game.

Does that make me bad Town?

[Setael]

That's helpful.

[Setael]

You still haven't answered my question two pages ago and you've been quiet (to say the least)

Was this directed at me? It appears as though it was since it came with your vote on me, but I'm confused because I don't remember you asking me a question and I looked back a few pages and don't see any, and I've hardly been quiet. Can you give me a post # where I can find that question?

Jordan's reaction to my case was decent and he has been acting pretty Town lately so for now

Unvote

.

I have a feeling all the scum are just lurking. I'd like to hear more from Fernando and Mr. Pigg.

[Setael]

I had no plan, did I? What about the fact that

careless scum would be so eager to jump on my "slip", or whatever you want to call it, that they would forget that this is an open setup, and that C9+2 only has two mafia

, so I couldn't be distancing from a "couple of" my scumbuddies. Nor was I making a badly supported argument that us "three couldn't be on the same side".

The part I italicized doesn't really make sense to me... it seems like scum would be the LEAST likely to forget that there are only two mafia... since they know that they are mafia with only one other person. Am I missing something?

[Setael]

Saying "I am not scum" is hardly role claiming.

[Setael]

We were told awhile ago that Mr. Pigg picked up his prod but we still haven't heard from him. Time for some pressure to get these guys to come out of hiding.

vote: Mr. Pigg

[Setael]

I'm thinking it's ryan and vampyrusddg. I'll keep my vote where it was for now. Oh, and thanks for replacing. Welcome!

[Setael]

Setael: So far his posts can be divided into 2 categories, #1 defensive over very small mentions, #2 oppurtunistic early votes on wagons or attempts to start them over very minor things.

Can you please quote some examples of this? I assume you're talking about my vote on Fernando but you said "votes". Were you just trying to exaggerate, or do you have further examples? Also, please quote this defensiveness over very small mentions.

[Setael]

A vote by me on him would seem OMGUS

Self-aware, are we?

[Setael]

Bold is me.

Setael: So far his posts can be divided into 2 categories, #1 defensive over very small mentions, #2 oppurtunistic early votes on wagons or attempts to start them over very minor things.

Can you please quote some examples of this? I assume you're talking about my vote on Fernando but you said "votes". Were you just trying to exaggerate, or do you have further examples? Also, please quote this defensiveness over very small mentions.

why can't me and ryan agree on something? luker hunting is so pro-town and pro-game that i'm amazed that you really thought about give us a FoS.

This particular "lurker hunting" feels contrived, and pointing it out with the "look how Town I am" plug looks scummy.
Unvote; Vote: Fernando

putting a second vote on Fernando quickly after the first.

Let's keep in mind how early in the game that was and that it was only a second vote. A little pressure is good, especially considering that there is very little to go on that early. Wagons = information.

@MoS: Why did you choose to vote me instead of Deathsauce when we were both voting Fernando for the same reasons?

after MoS called you out for placing the quick second vote. He was the only person voting you at this point and had pretty much answered this when he placed the vote

Can you tell me how he had "pretty much answered this"? Because if he had, I would not have asked the question.

Then post #108 is looking far too hard to throw suspicion on TylerJ

This was the first game I was in from the beginning. All my others I'd replaced in. Obviously, it's tricky early on because there isn't much to go on. I picked the person I found the scummiest and presented everything that could've been possible scumminess. Maybe it looked like "trying to hard to throw suspicion" on him, but it was really me trying to build a case on someone when it's still early enough in the game that there's not all that much to work with

and when Fernando calls you out for it and FOSes you we get:

while Tylerj defended me

I'll keep that in mind.

pouncing on a tiny snippet of a post for a quick snide remark.

Yep. Was trying to get a reaction out of Fernando. You weren't here, so you don't realize that it felt like the game was going nowhere. Reaction checking is definitely appropriate in that kind of situation.

post #127 is just an actual vote on TylerJ after you realised that you didn't unvote first time so it wasn't counted

Setael voted for Fernando for his lurker post. He then made a long post against me on things that weren’t scummy in an attempt to falsely corner me. Also it seems that Setael seems to be lurking with enough posts to keep from being noticed.

First of all, SHE not he.

Second, can you explain to me why you would FOS me instead of voting me if you think all that is true? Seems to me like you're avoiding voting for me because my vote is on you, which I can see scum being very aware of.

calling out TylerJ for FOSing you rather than voting for you, not the least suspicious in my eyes, an FOS is basicaly warning someone that you think their playing scummy, this is quite a bad knee-jerk reaction for a FOS

That's your opinion. It could also be exactly what I pointed out that it could be: scum not wanting to vote me for fear of looking OMGUS and scummy.

Yeah... maybe I'm missing something. My point was that your paragraph about MoS seems to mostly just point out things that seem pro-Town (like the Fernando clarification) whereas your paragraph about me sounds vote-worthy. If you really think I was intentionally writing things "that weren’t scummy in an attempt to falsely corner" you - why didn't you vote me?

Bottom line is, according to your post, your case on me seems a lot better than your case on MoS so it looks scummy not to vote me. The only reason I can see is you avoiding people saying "Tyler just voted Setael because she had voted him. OMGUS vote!" which is, of course, the kind of attention scum would want to avoid.

backing down after TylerJ pointed out that he FOSed you because he was voting MoS, although pointing out the OMGUS thing again even though TylerJ had, as you put in your own words, built a case that seemed vote worthy against you. A return vote with a case is not OMGUS, OMGUS is voting someone just because their voting you.

I know that. I was pointing out that Tyler seemed to be leaving his vote on MoS rather than voting me (even though according to his analysis post he had more reason to vote me) because he didn't want to be called out for an OMGUS vote and therefore look scummy. Also, where is the "backing down" here?

#140

It kind of makes it look more like OMGUS for you to feel like you need to say "This isn't an OMGUS vote."

again pushing the OMGUS thing even more, just arguing a point you'd already destroyed yourself

I definitely disagree that the point had been destroyed.

I find it very annoying that you did not bother to quote the rest of the posts, but instead merely gave a number for them along with your incorrect interpretation. You get minus 5 points for laziness. It wouldn't be such a big deal, but you clearly twisted them and skewed them as negatively as possible. Minus another 5 points for scumminess. Give me a few minutes while I quote them all for you.

Goddamn. If I was mafia with Setael and ChocolateAttack, we'd be the best damn mafia ever. I don't think the three of us have been on the same side of an argument all game.

Does that make me bad Town?

Though you called this a "flippant one liner" it was obviously a joke. grow a sense of humor.

well, if it helps add to the argument im not less suspicious of any of you even after all these posts.. no one stands out as truly town or truly scummy, just a few people seem equally scummy but too many..

#148 was me responding "That's helpful." Maybe I should've written /sarcasm after to clear it up for you. Or did you need a treatise on the post and why his unhelpfulness and wishy washiness was scummy?

#169 an unvote with some encouragement for lurker hunting

I can see why you didn't quote this one since there was no way for you to misconstrue it as scummy. Heaven forbid you quote something that would make me look Town - that would ruin your whole agenda. Here's the post:

You still haven't answered my question two pages ago and you've been quiet (to say the least)

Was this directed at me? It appears as though it was since it came with your vote on me, but I'm confused because I don't remember you asking me a question and I looked back a few pages and don't see any, and I've hardly been quiet. Can you give me a post # where I can find that question?

Jordan's reaction to my case was decent and he has been acting pretty Town lately so for now Unvote.

I have a feeling all the scum are just lurking. I'd like to hear more from Fernando and Mr. Pigg.

#183 ducking into the fight between Ryan and MOS to take a cheap shot at MoS as Ryan seemed to be on the ropes a bit

Hmmm... that doesn't sound accurate at all. Let's take a look at the actual post, shall we?

I had no plan, did I? What about the fact that

careless scum would be so eager to jump on my "slip", or whatever you want to call it, that they would forget that this is an open setup, and that C9+2 only has two mafia

, so I couldn't be distancing from a "couple of" my scumbuddies. Nor was I making a badly supported argument that us "three couldn't be on the same side".

The part I italicized doesn't really make sense to me... it seems like scum would be the LEAST likely to forget that there are only two mafia... since they know that they are mafia with only one other person. Am I missing something?

I think you should admit this is a very viable point, and apologize for twisting it so blatantly. Either to me if you are Town, or if you are scum, apologize to your scum buddies for being so obvious.

#185 trying to help out Ryan over the whole "I am not scum" argument

Well, I don't remember defending Ryan, so I guess we should quote the actual post, eh? Here it is:

Saying "I am not scum" is hardly role claiming.

Why interpret this as "helping out ryan" rather than "calling out Tyler for accusing ryan of role claiming when he obviously hadn't"? You clearly tried to put a scummy coating on it that wasn't there, which was helped by the fact that you didn't quote it, just like the rest of these.

#193 voting my predecesor for lurking

One bonus point for being accurate about something and for not trying to conjure up nonexistent scumminess FOR ONCE.

I don't see how a Townie would've skewed things in this way. Your post seemed almost assuredly scum attempting to create a case out of nothing by twisting everything I've done.

[Setael]

thinktank, could you please list who you are suspicious of, and give reasons? I read over all your posts and it seems you have been wishy washy on pretty much everyone.

[Setael]

Sorry this is going to be so long, but after rereading, I think that thinktank is scum, and anyone who rereads him will see what I'm seeing. Bold within his posts is me.

Ryan, why did you vote for Fernando considering that Deathsauce seems to have some reason which he is voting for you. Little bit odd that Deathsauce voted for you, yet you didn't even address that fact but voted for Fernando, who was voting to get lnyched the person who was voting to get you lynched. Seems like counterintuitive logic doesnt it?

Woops, i confused chocolate attack with death sauce. Please ignore the last part of my post. But id still like to know why you didnt respond to a lynch vote?

This is obviously still the random voting stage. thinktank seems to be really reaching to try to cast suspicion on someone here.

MoS seems suspicious to me. He does not post for a while, then posts only when under the pressure vote and even then his posts say almost nothin except for the fact that hes voting ryan. Seems like lurker behaviour. I understand that Tyler J had similar behaviour but he atleast had a counter argument against the bandwagon.Why did you vote for Ryan, MoS?

FoS: Mastermind of Sin

Once again, grasping.

On the one hand, we have a mafia tactic to lurk, but on the other hand its a mafia tactic to hunt lurkers which seems to have divided in to the two voting wagons and im not completely sure which way to go considering both seem to pose interesting aruments.

Feels like he's trying to look like he's posting content without actually posting content.

lurkers vs lurker hunting wagon. interesting debate. I doubt mafia would lurk because its pretty obvious so currently the lurker hunting does seem like a scum tactic. However im not convinced as of yet, so im gonna be a bit conservative and wait till things develop a bit further till i make up my mind.

More of the same. Trying to stay off radar and post enough to not be accused of lurking, but not scum hunting at all.

Fernando doesn't seem suspicious but those who jumped on him do.

It seems that Mafia is rather experienced because they have yet to make a noticeable mistakes. I looked through all of the posts, but nothing has popped up yet.

not necessarily. The assumption that they have yet to make mistakes is based on your conclusion that their playing logically and are also experienced. That doesnt necessarily have to be true. They could just as easily new and playing erraticly. I' think a closer look at the two current camps is necessary at the moment.

Statements like "That doesn't necessarily have to be true" just sound scummy by virtue of how wishy washy and noncommital they are.

Well therefore in response to MoS. refer back to my post from before. Therefore we shouldnt necessarily be looking for logical, complex plays. Perhaps we're overlooking plays which we think are so unbelievably simple that it is fooling us townies.

Sounds contrived to look pro-Town. If you think we are overlooking simple scum tells, point some out.

I'm glad to see this game is going somewhere /end sarcasm. For the last week, we've just been going in a circle...accusations followed by justification followed by accusations at the opposite party..

If you were pro-Town, you would scum hunt instead of lecturing everyone else's play without doing anything to improve it.

glad to see this game is going somewhere...

Not helpful.

well, if it helps add to the argument im not less suspicious of any of you even after all these posts.. no one stands out as truly town or truly scummy, just a few people seem equally scummy Sad but too many..

This should be put in the wiki as the example under "wishy washy"

unvote: Setael

Way past random voting stage. I think we have our fair share of aggressive players. At this point I'm equally suspicious of everyone.. Whenever a player seems to make an accusation, it gets responded to with more agresive accusations, and all the while no real information is being extracted. 7 pages and all the votes seem to be on different wagons.

Equally suspicious of everyone. Can't get more noncommital than that. Once again criticizing that no "real information is being extracted" and yet thinktank hasn't provided any "real information" all game.

MoS makes a good argument vs Ryan. At this point Ryan and Fernando seem the most scummy. Ryan, especially because of the last post, you seem somewhat desperate to point fingers and I don't think that argument was well laid out.
What does everyone else think?

FoS: Ryan

If you think Ryan and Fernando are scummy, tell us why. You say Ryan is desperate to point fingers and his argument isn't well laid out, yet here you are pointing fingers with no argument at all. I also think it's scummy to just throw out "What does everyone else think?" when you've hardly built a case.

Fernando hasnt posted anything in like 5 days,

vote: Fernando

pressure votes always get the discussion started. And in response to MoS about people not doing much, there was the one argument which i agreed with you on about Ryan but besides this game has been a lot of fingerpointing back and forth.

Do you call this content? Do you consider this scum hunting?

Wouldn't scum also claim to be town because they want to win? So what good is claiming town if everybody can do the same thing? and u can't pick out rolefishing out for a townie role because isnt that what all players except scum try to do for the entirety of the game? I think we need to get Fernando replaced

No content.

whats the vote count now?

No content.

I think both Mr.Pigg and Fernando need to be replaced before we finish this day because they havent posted in a while. We don't have sufficient information on their roles to conclude anything safely as of yet, for all we know both of them could be mafia.

Merely pointing out who is lurking. Other than that, no content.

Claiming townie has no weight what so ever and i ask that we ignore that as evidence to or not to lynch someone because it is in EVERYONE's best interest to claim townie and there's no way to prove it.

This is one of those things you say when you want to look pro-Town but really aren't.

This has been a failry long day, almost 230 posts and we're still no closer to lynch cause two out of the 9 players are completely inactive and a couple others arent really active or voicing either. We need to get replacements ASAP so that we can get good information before we vote. I know ryan is a lynch-2 so please dont hammer until we get new players or the old players become active.

Constantly pointing out who isn't posting a lot and who is lurking. This does not count as content.

It is true that scum tend to stay slightly under the raday than those who stick out however this isn't true most of the time and we cant use this logic whe deciding to lynch.

Ironic, since this is exactly what thinktank has been doing all game.

We lynch based on evidence. An example of this would another game which i was in Game 454, i believe someone else refrenced to it. I understand that it is a newbie game but the mere fact that the scum was so visible to everyone was the reason i decided not to vote for that player and that player turned out to be scum.

As for predicting scum players, im going to hold of as Vampyrus is still new in this game, so more analysis is needed for me decide that. Also another player is to be replaced so at this point is not a viable option imo. We need to hear more from the new players to this game.

so what's the votecount?
People seem to be switching votes or casting new ones , hard to keep track. Atleast now we can get the game going considering we have all active players.

I not not sure if i should be suspicious of Ryan or not. he's quite aggressove and gets defensive really fast, but i dont think that's enough reason to lynch him. People are now voting Tyler, whats the core argument against Tyler?

Wishy washiness on Ryan. Doesn't bother to read to find out argument against Tyler.

seems like a lot of long posts today...Setael makes a good counter argument against voting her, which is narrowing the barrel down significantly.
In my mind i was thinking, Ryan Setael or Tyler.

If that's the case, why didn't you mention it before? Why have you not presented any suspicion or arguments or a case against any of us?

Setael seems to have made good counter arguments against pretty much everything that was said. Ryan seems less and less likely as the game seems to progress and I don't buy the Ryan's claim about Role hunting.

What has he done to seem less and less scummy? Feels like he just needs something to say, but doesn't really believe any of it.

Please fill me in on my lapse of logic because im fairly new to this but doesnt every one rolehunt in this game, isnt that the point? to find out which player's roles are scum? so how can u hold that against someone?

Back to my original statement, out of the three Tyler is in the lead because he was quick to hammer. However having said that, thats not nearly enough to lynch someone. More importantly, someone please tell me what the fault with my logic about rolehunting is?

Not sure if he doesn't understand what a hammer is or if he's confusing this with another game or what... Once again noncommital with the "that's not nearly enough to lynch someone."

I'm sry if me asking for vote counts seems scummy, but I just want to see what everybody's actions are at the current time because in the last few days this game seems to have picked up and wagons seem to be changing, originally was against ryan but then against Setael and Tyler, and now Tyler?

I wouldn't say there has ever been a wagon on me. What are you talking about? Also, this isn't really content. What are you trying to do - clarify the status quo?

The only reason which i see which makes tyler a bit more suspicious than others is a quick hammer, [removed the rest because it's the same thing twice, as well as the next post pointing it out.]

I thought i was clear in my last post, guess i wasnt. At this point Tyler seems the most suspicious due to his quick hammer earlier in the game. Im not entirely comvinced that he was rolehunting but it does look bad for him.

The previous post, he had said he didn't think rolehunting would make him look bad.

I was suspicious of Setael but her post countering any attacks has made me quite less suspicious of Setael.

If you were suspicious of me, why did you never mention it?

Besides that no one really seems too scummy, Ryan's style is just the way it is and theres nothing to hold against him besides heavy counterattacks, correct me if im wrong.
So at this point in time i am most suspicious of Tyler but there does not seem enough on him to lynch ( quick hammer and possible role hunting).

Once again with the not suspicious of anyone. Pro-Town players would have some kind of suspicion by now. He's being overly cautious and seems to be obviously avoiding stating his suspicions. Really feels like he has no suspicions because he knows exactly who is scum and who is Town.

Votes MoS without giving a reason.

I understand that we criticized Tyler for his quick hammer on Fernando but CA also has been jumping wagons, he jumped on a wagon just as quickly as Tyler did. Also he has not posted much relevant content to give enough feedback on him.

Good excuse to not give an opinion either way.

I would like to hear why he jumped wagons . I understand that he has midterms so it may be a few days before we hear from him.

Because you're being a flaming douchebag.

lol not to be offensive but anyone else see the irony in that statement?

No content. Trying to get in good with the Town.

I read thread everyday however i dont always have something useful to add.

IMO you've never once added anything useful.

This game is getting repetitive , we're in post 368 and its still game 1 and we're still no closer to a lynch. I agree that a vote count is necessaryand something needs to be done to change the flow of this game because it is going nowhere, for example getting all the other players to voice their opinions.

Have you voiced your opinions? Have you done any scum hunting at all? If so, it's cleverly camouflaged behind all these content-less posts.

I think at this point it does not seem like ryan is a wagon anymore, correct me if im wrong. Tyler is coming under heavy fire for the hammer and CA also seems "wishy washy". At this point CA and tyler seem the most suspicious

however the evidence against them isnt very much.

I would like to hear someone besides Mos and Ryan take a stance, if you're not ready to vote thats fine but pls inform of who you think is suspicious and why so we can more evidence to lynch because this logic circle is getting all too repetitive.

Ironic that he's calling someone else wishy washy. I really love that he's telling everyone else to say who they're suspicious of, but has cleverly avoided ever doing so himself.

I have already stated what I feel has been useful.
There is no reason for me to keep repeating myself and become redundant, everyone can read.

I would actually really appreciate you pointing anything you'd consider useful, because I'm not seeing anything that counts.

Tyler, Mos and Ryan have been engaged in a cyclical logic spin for the last many days, i fail to see what new information i could have contributed other than the statement i made in your defense that i felt your quick hammer was not enough for a lynch. Lurking implies that i am staying beneath the radar, however i have voiced my opinions clearly and stated my suspicions. I fail to see that as lurking.

Again with the hammer. Everyone has their own definition of lurking. I call thinktank's play as "anti-lurking" - posting without ever really giving suspicions or content. He's definitely staying "beneath the radar".

Ok if TylerJ is a newbie WHO are the scum?

I'm assuming you're being sarcastc because of the caps (pls dont everyone give me a DUH response). If Tyler isn't scum there is

the odd chance

that Tyler and Mos are scum

as some one brought up

cause MoS attacked ryan pretty hard and now seems to have backed off

but thats hardly convicting evidence, more speculation

. Chocolate attack

could be

scum, btw i realize you gave reason for switching vote but my point was that you've switched votes like 2 or 3 times and at times they wre almost as quick as Tyler's hammer. So if we're gonna condemn Tyler for his hammer, then isnt just as logical to be suspicious of chocolate attack?

All the parts I italicized are the scummy, noncommital wishy washy parts.

ok im sry. I hadnt realized i used the word incorrectly, i believed hammer referred to someone who quickvotes someone. A while ago someone wagoned Fernando and i believe Tyler was very quick to follow suit. That is what i thought your condition was for wagoning him. Sry i misued the term.

Finally explains why he keeps saying someone hammered. Noteworthy about this post is how apologetic he is. Definitely wanting to stay under the radar - quickly says he's sorry to get out of the spotlight.

i need to work on my communcation skills.... i mean because Tyler was so quick to vote for Fernando is why i believed Mos and Ryan were wagoning Tyler.

No content.

I agree that everyone needs to talk more but lurking DOES NOT mean that someone is scum. the better scum players don't lurk because its TOO easy to hit lurkers.

True. Inexperienced scum is more likely to post enough to not get called a "lurker" without ever actually posting content.

perhaphs MoS has a point about Jdodge s style from other games but there is no way im voting for someone purely because the fact that they're lurking.

That's understandable. But... what would you say is a good reason for voting someone? Because you still haven't scum hunted at all.

If they dont talk for a while get em prodded and then replaced. Pressure votes are always good but please don't vote people purely for lurking. I believe it was said earlier in this game day that lurker hunting is more pro scum then it is town because scum will use lurker hunting as a tactic.

He's careful to not take credit for this argument - just repeating something someone else said.

Unvote, vote: thinktank

[Setael]

Sorry Setael, but instead of making thinktank look scummy, you made yourself look scummy, most of the stuff I saw felt contrived, made up, like you were fishing for something. Kind of like what scum would do to pretend that they were looking for scum. You did this to me too.

FoS:Setael

The only thing I noticed that was that contrived was the fact that he was staying under the radar pretty well and was wishy-washy. There are a few posts though were he does seem to be looking for scum. You have me thinking based on these points alone, but even some of the examples you used for these were far-fetched.

My main case against thinktank is the fact that his posts have been contentless. He has done no real scum hunting. All his posts are basically filler, calling people out for lurking but never really posting suspicions. If you think this is inaccurate, please show me specific posts where you think that thinktank was genuinely scum hunting, posting real content, and giving his suspicions.

Setael is scum with JDodge. She posted the huge "case" on ThinkTank to distract from my pointing out his lurker tactics.

This push on me and JDodge out of nowhere actually feels a lot like you distracting from my thinktank case. Do you disagree with the arguments I made? If so, please do the same thing I asked of tyler - prove me wrong.

Setael seems to have tried to slip away unnoticed to calm suspicions about her. But I remember that she seems to make things up in order to corner people. At least that is how I see it. So with that said.

Vote: Setael

I was out of town all weekend. Nice try, though. So... is your full case that I've "made stuff up in order to corner people?" If so, please give examples of how I've done this.

Let's run up Setael and JDodge. GOGOGO.

This little teaming up of tyler and mos makes it look like tyler is a townie who was wrong about my thinktank post, and mos is scum who jumped on tyler's reaction to my post. This way, mos can hide behind tyler and distract so that tyler takes most the blame. MoS, if you really think i'm scum, present a case. I'm guessing you don't since even though you say you think i'm scum, you still aim for JDodge.

So at this point it's looking like the scum team is thinktank and MoS. thinktank is the most obvious, so I'll keep my vote where it is.

@DeathSauce: You also completely disregarded my case and merely said you still think it's MoS/ryan. Do you think I'm wrong about thinktank? If so, please show me the light.

[Setael]

Tyler, since you chose to completely ignore my question, I'll post it again here for you.

So... is your full case that I've "made stuff up in order to corner people?" If so, please give examples of how I've done this.

[Setael]

thinktank's attempt to post content in post 483 is duly noted.

i'll give you guys that it's possible his play is due to newbishness rather than scumminess. More likely, he's newbie scum and one of those who said my case was bad and distracted from it are his scum buddy. I'll leave my vote on think for now.

[Setael]

He is playing the same as he has in all the games I've been in with him. They're all still going, and the only one I know his alignment was one where he died and was the doc. In that game he was equally inactive, vague and didn't seem to pay any more attention than he does here. That seems to be his playstyle. I don't think you can metagame JDodge, and I don't have any reason to think he is scum in this game.

[Setael]

Wow. That was a whole lot of nothing. Obviously JDodge is intentionally lurking in his games, whether he be scum or town, to test some kind of theory. My guess is the theory is something like "Scum is more likely to wagon a lurker than Town is". Just a guess.

JDodge, I would like your opinion on thinktank.

[Setael]

Deathsauce's 509 warrants at least 2 votes.

unvote, vote: deathsauce

[Setael]

Setael: You vote Deathsauce and offer no opinion on these last few pages of exchange with JDodge? Why?

Pay attention, ryan. I did offer an opinion on these last few pages of nothingness. I'll post it again for you since you missed it:

Wow. That was a whole lot of nothing. Obviously JDodge is intentionally lurking in his games, whether he be scum or town, to test some kind of theory. My guess is the theory is something like "Scum is more likely to wagon a lurker than Town is". Just a guess.

JDodge, I would like your opinion on thinktank.

I do think this whole exchange made ryan look more scummy, and JDodge look more Town. ryan's willingness to lynch townies (though he's trying to camouflage it) is indeed scummy. However I don't agree with this:

Now, the other thing that makes me think ryan is scum is his interactions with Tyler; ryan starts getting pressured and suddenly Tyler steps in saying "Don't answer!" and "He's manipulating you!". He also answered some of the questions for ryan, and looking back through for most of the game he's been suspicious of ryan consistently, but almost never actually acting on it. Thus I think he's scum trying to distance rather poorly.

I do not think Tyler would have intercessed on ryan's behalf the way he did if they were scum buddies.

@MoS - I'm guessing your *sigh* was for my 2nd vote on Deathsauce. If so, could you please stop making such a huge deal about every time I am the second vote? Evidently it doesn't have the connotation you think it does, since you've been wrong about it twice now.

[Setael]

Setael: Willingness to lynch townies? How do you know who the townies are UNLESS you are scum?

I think it was pretty obvious that I was referring to this post, especially the bolded part:

So basically what I can figure out from these questions is that

ryan has no problems lynching a townie

, even though I'm fairly certain that he knows the following:

1. We can only afford 2 mislynches in this setup, the lynch of someone whom he even thinks could be town

2. There is a possibility that I will neither confirm nor deny at this point that I could even be a power role, thus dramatically weakening the town in the process.

Nice job trying to twist my words though.

Deathsauce's last post was fabulously scummy. He thinks ryan is playing as scummy as he did when he was godfather in another game, but then votes JDodge for no reason. "I am reasonably certain you are scum" is not a reason, nor is it a case. JDodge is looking very town, and both Deathsauce and ryan are looking very scummy.

[Setael]

Well, for one thing it got you to basically admit you want to lynch a Townie just for lurking. It also made you look really scummy. So if you are scum, it flushed out a scum. If you are Town, it just muddied the water.

[Setael]

However, if you would like, you could try to defend against the accusations.

I don't like twisting things. There is a difference between stating my opinion and twisting something. Just because you don't agree with my suspicions does not mean I am twisting anything.

[Setael]

@MoS - I'm guessing your *sigh* was for my 2nd vote on Deathsauce. If so, could you please stop making such a huge deal about every time I am the second vote? Evidently it doesn't have the connotation you think it does, since you've been wrong about it twice now.

Even more delightful hypocrisy from Setael! He tells MoS that where someone places their vote isn't a scumtell, but then says I am scummy for placing the L-1 vote, which is the moldiest chestnut in mafia.

Really Setael, you should try to develop some kind of consistency.

Nice try with the putting words in my mouth to paint me as scummy. Too bad it's so transparent. How about you quote where I said that "where someone places their vote isn't a scumtell". Do you honestly think that the second vote on a wagon is the same as putting someone at -1? The 2nd vote might be just for pressure, and it can certainly be because of one scummy post. However, putting someone at -1 takes a good case for good reasons, none of which do you have on JDodge. What's your case on him again? That he's been lurking? How about you try to dredge up something a little more concrete before putting someone at -1. I, on the other hand, have plenty of cause to be the 2nd vote on your wagon. In fact, the more you twist what I say to try to make me look scummy, the more I would be able to justify putting you at -1. See the difference? [/lesson]

[Setael]

I'm not surprised you aren't willing to type out your suspicions, since they're so contrived. The only thing you've done is twist JDodge's argument into something it wasn't and then vote him for it.

You don't have a case on him. The votes on him are for nothing but the fact that he's been lurking and I think it's ridiculous that he's at -1. It's pretty obvious that scum is pushing his wagon, and I think you're one of them.

[Setael]

Well at the moment it looks like neither me nor Setael would hammer Jdodge, which leaves Thinktank and MoS, would either of you be willing to hammer? If you are then it's time for Jdodge to claim, if not lets move the discussion on, we're starting to get stale.

Im sorry but this post smells of scummyness. Perhaps you didn't choose your words carefully but "willing to hammer". I'm sorry but no, I hate to disappoint but im not going to hammer someone based on lurking and bread crumb hints. I'm not sure why but you seem to be pushing his wagon subtely , "willing to hammer" asking for the hammer vote, which if JDodge is innocent would then allow scum to target me or MoS next game day for hammering on insufficient a case.

Secondly, "time for JDodge to claim", seems like your pushing for a claim from JDodge or threatening a lynch which also seems very scummy with the "if not" adding subtelty to your push.

Perhaps you didnt explain yourself or perhaps i caught something. Please correct my logic if you see a flaw.

I agree with thinktank here. This is exactly what I thought after reading vampy's post. I think JDodge is Town and I also think ryan is Town, mostly because if he was scum I don't think he'd push so hard against someone he knows to be Town since he'd look really bad once JDodge comes up Town. I think our 2 scums are vampy and Deathsauce. So ryan - if you are Town like I think, you need to take a step back and realize that the only reason you're voting JDodge is you have allowed him to provoke you. There is no good reason for all the votes on him and everything you say sounds more and more like you just want to get rid of him because he annoys you, even if he's Town. If he gets hammered and comes up Town, where would you look next? Would you agree with a possible vampy - Deathsauce connection? I think they both have made posts recently that looked a lot scummier than anything JDodge has said.

[Setael]

Bothy vampy and ryan's last posts reek of scumminess, since they both sound like they know JDodge is about to come up Town.

@MoS: Though I don't think you're scum, I'm pretty sure JDodge was Town, and I'm pissed you hammered.

[Setael]

Nice try, ryan. Unfortunately for you, I won't be the only one who read that post as you seeming to be pretty certain JDodge is about to come up town, even though you are the main one pushing his lynch. This doesn't make me think you are scum, surprisingly. This whole stupid thing between you and JDodge looked like a Townie going after a Townie and scum sitting back letting it happen. IMO you're not scum, you're just stupid Town.

[Setael]

DeathSauce and vampy are the scums. Don't believe me? Reread.

vote: DeathSauce

[Setael]

@Deathsauce: The obvious move for scum today is to try to paint ryan as scummy for pushing for the JDodge lynch. Like I've already said, I don't think ryan is scum, I think he was a Townie who was wrong about JDodge. So... you targetting him just makes it even more obvious you're scum.

Also, congratulating the doc is a scum tell.

[Setael]

Also noted is the fact that you are trying to cast suspicion wherever you think it'll stick. You're obvscum and I'm just hoping I'm not the only one who sees it.

[Setael]

I think it would've been wise for everyone to do their own reread, but I'll give my analysis and then you can do your own reread of him.

I don't really think there has been enough activity to do a PBPA analysis of everyone, and TylerJ's is reasonably accurate

The first thing I found noteworthy was this post, in which he hides behind tyler's suspicions. I don't see a townie taking another townie's pbpa and saying it's "reasonably accurate". The wording is scummy and reeks of insider info.

He then makes a big deal out of ryan "claiming townie" which is extremely opportunistic. His whole stance on this issue felt scummy - Tyler brought it up first and it was ridiculous in the first place. The Townie reaction would've been to realize that saying "I'm Town" is not a claim. Deathsauce's support of TYler's idea looks like scum fueling the flames.

He posts a few times merely to say "I'm happy with my vote." Scum is motivated to post enough to look like they're not lurking without adding content or posting suspicions, and this is what these feel like.

Tries to create a ryan/MoS link, and then throws some suspicion onto CA and says he agrees with ryan and MoS about it. In next post says "let's get MoS" but leaves his vote on ryan. The "let's get MoS" is particularly scummy considering it's not even accompanied by a vote.

Well this definitely got interesting, I'm willing to give JDodge another day to show us his amazing revelation, what can it hurt? But if I''m not amazed, I will probably vote for him.

I didn't explain why I voted him for this post because I thought it was pretty slap-you-in-the-face obvious. Evidently I was wrong, so I'll break it down for you. He leaves himself open to vote JDodge for no reason at all. His sole reason for suspecting JDodge is ... oh wait, there is none. He's not suspicious of JDodge, he just thinks this interaction with ryan should result in an amazing revelation. And if it doesn't? Well then he's going to vote JDodge for it. That basically amounts to having absolutely no reason to vote him. It's incredibly opportunistic - a vote based solely on the fact that JDodge is provoking players enough that scum will be able to push a bandwagon without taking much heat since a few Townies are annoyed. Deathsauce's vote was pretty obviously not for any scumminess on JDodge's part at all. It was just an easy mislynch so scum jumped on it.

However, JDodge, your argument just doesn't hold water for me. It basically boils down to "ryan is willing to vote for someone that could be a townie", but that is true for all of us. No one is ever completely sure of who is scum and who is town, how could they be? You just vote for who you are reasonably certain is scum.

True to his word, Deathsauce votes JDodge solely for not providing an amazing revelation. He says JDodge's argument wasn't good enough. And... that is reason for a -1 vote. Does no one else see how obvious this is? He gave NO reason at any time for thinking JDodge was scum. The only thing he said was that he didn't like JDodge's argument with ryan. Is this the ONLY argument JDodge has disagreed with all game? Because it sure seems insignificant as far as reasons to put someone at -1 go.

He then tries to twist my words and says I said "where you put your vote isn't a scumtell" which I never said. Lynch all liars would be helpful here. He then won't admit that there's a world of difference between the second vote and a L-1 vote.

Nice how you guys are already setting up your next lynch before we even know JDodge's alignment, I am thinking it's a Setael/Vampy or Setael/ Chocolate Attack scumpair, since we throwing out ideas and all.

First, this is OMGUS since the only reason Deathsauce has given to suspect me is the fact that I suspect him. He didn't look twice at me before that.

Frankly, it's obvious that JDodge's wagon was scum driven. I think Deathsauce felt comfortable hiding behind ryan because most of JDodge's interaction was directy with ryan. So he thought he could support the mislynch and then pin the blame on ryan the next day. I for one am not buying it. ryan is not the one who came up looking scummy after that mislynch, but Deathsauce sure did.

[Setael]

This is not even worth responding to. I felt TylerJ's analysis was "reasonably accurate", simple truth.

Read "not worth responding to" as "I have no defense for this."

He then makes a big deal out of ryan "claiming townie" which is extremely opportunistic. His whole stance on this issue felt scummy - Tyler brought it up first and it was ridiculous in the first place. The Townie reaction would've been to realize that saying "I'm Town" is not a claim. Deathsauce's support of TYler's idea looks like scum fueling the flames.

It's called "scum hunting". You look for inconsistencies and odd behavior. I brought it up originally because Tyler said he thought ryan had claimed but couldn't find it, I found it. Saying "I'm town" early on Day One IS a claim and is odd behavior, you will not convince me otherwise no matter how many times you repeat it.

Please give the post number where you "brought it up originally" because as I remember it, Tyler said it first and you supported and emphasized the idea when the Townie reaction would've been to see that it wasn't a claim and it was a nonissue.

He posts a few times merely to say "I'm happy with my vote." Scum is motivated to post enough to look like they're not lurking without adding content or posting suspicions, and this is what these feel like.

Again, meaningless.

Again, read "I have no defense for this."

Tries to create a ryan/MoS link, and then throws some suspicion onto CA and says he agrees with ryan and MoS about it. In next post says "let's get MoS" but leaves his vote on ryan. The "let's get MoS" is particularly scummy considering it's not even accompanied by a vote.

Once again I was calling out oddness. MoS was an early and strident critic of ryan, then suddenly switched and began defending him once a few votes built up. You don't think that constitutes a possible link? Are you trying to be blind? The "let's get MoS" was in direct response to MoS posting "Let's run up Setael and JDodge. GOGOGO." I guess that post isn't scummy but mine is?

I didn't say his wasn't scummy, but yes yours is.

Well this definitely got interesting, I'm willing to give JDodge another day to show us his amazing revelation, what can it hurt? But if I''m not amazed, I will probably vote for him.

I didn't explain why I voted him for this post because I thought it was pretty slap-you-in-the-face obvious. Evidently I was wrong, so I'll break it down for you. He leaves himself open to vote JDodge for no reason at all. His sole reason for suspecting JDodge is ... oh wait, there is none. He's not suspicious of JDodge, he just thinks this interaction with ryan should result in an amazing revelation. And if it doesn't? Well then he's going to vote JDodge for it. That basically amounts to having absolutely no reason to vote him. It's incredibly opportunistic - a vote based solely on the fact that JDodge is provoking players enough that scum will be able to push a bandwagon without taking much heat since a few Townies are annoyed. Deathsauce's vote was pretty obviously not for any scumminess on JDodge's part at all. It was just an easy mislynch so scum jumped on it.

Bullshit. JDodge was badgering ryan for FOUR PAGES on some meaningless point, attempting to draw out something to convince us that ryan was scum. He failed to convince ANYONE. Numerous players in the game have stated that JDodge's behavior and playstyle were unacceptable, but once again you single me out.

"Unacceptable" does not mean scummy. My point, which you ignored, is that you weren't voting JDodge because you thought he was scum. Even now you say the reason you voted him was because "his behavior was unacceptable." The issue I have with this is the fact that you voted to put someone at -1 that you did not think was scummy. You saw that his behavior was pissing off a few townies and he would therefore be an easy lynch. You knew you would be able to hide behind ryan since ryan was the main one attacking jdodge, and that is exactly what you're doing.

You are right that JDodge didn't convince anyone that ryan is scum, but it did convince me that you are scum from your willingness to opportunistically take out JDodge.

True to his word, Deathsauce votes JDodge solely for not providing an amazing revelation. He says JDodge's argument wasn't good enough. And... that is reason for a -1 vote. Does no one else see how obvious this is? He gave NO reason at any time for thinking JDodge was scum. The only thing he said was that he didn't like JDodge's argument with ryan. Is this the ONLY argument JDodge has disagreed with all game? Because it sure seems insignificant as far as reasons to put someone at -1 go.

Once again you are blind. Did you miss the fact that FOUR PAGES of this game were nothing but JDodge and ryan arguing? Can you point out another argument like that in this game? In the next paragraph you are going to say I am twisting your words, but that's all your argument here consists of.

I don't think you're twisting my words, I think you're avoiding the point. What does the fact that there were four pages of JDodge and ryan arguing have to do with anything? Why do you think that automatically means one of them is scum? In fact, now that we know JDodge is town, it makes a lot more sense that ryan is town now as well because it is unlikely that scum would push that hard knowing their opponent is going to come up town and make them look really badly. The much more likely scenario is that scum (you specifically) saw that JDodge could easily be mislynched just for his playstyle, which is the only reason you had, and then all the attention and blame could be thrown at ryan.

The fact is that you were strongly and definitely implying that vote placement isn't a scumtell, it's the entire point of your post Setael wrote:

If so, could you please stop making such a huge deal about every time I am the second vote? Evidently it doesn't have the connotation you think it does, since you've been wrong about it twice now.

So your whole argument is that vote placement isn't a scumtell if it's the second vote, but it IS a scumtell if it's the L-1 vote? That is rank hypocrisy, plain and simple.

The more you try to insist that a 2nd vote and a -1 vote is the same thing, the scummier you look. I appreciate you quoting my post where in I specify that I am referring to a 2nd vote which makes it much more obvious that your argument makes no sense. You are comparing a 2nd vote with a -1 vote that has been made without reason. I am not saying that every -1 vote is a scumtell, I am saying that yours was because you did not think JDodge was scummy and you did not say that JDodge was scummy and you STILL aren't saying your vote was for scumminess. It was for his playstyle. It was because he was annoying townies and you saw an opportunity to hide behind ryan and push a mislynch.

First, this is OMGUS since the only reason Deathsauce has given to suspect me is the fact that I suspect him. He didn't look twice at me before that.

That post was made with my tongue firmly in my cheek, it is obviously an OMGUS joke. The fact that you can't see the ridiculousness of naming scumpairs after chastising others for naming scumpairs is telling.

What do you mean by "it's telling?" Are you saying you think I'm scum? It feels like you are trying to imply it without saying it so you can avoid being called out for OMGUS.

Frankly, it's obvious that JDodge's wagon was scum driven. I think Deathsauce felt comfortable hiding behind ryan because most of JDodge's interaction was directy with ryan. So he thought he could support the mislynch and then pin the blame on ryan the next day. I for one am not buying it. ryan is not the one who came up looking scummy after that mislynch, but Deathsauce sure did.

Frankly, it is not at all obvious that Dodge's wagon was "scum driven", since other players that didn't vote Dodge have noted the scumminess of Dodge's play. But let's assume it was "scum driven", who was driving that wagon? It was ryan! Who is my vote on? ryan! Amazing!

When a townie is lynched not for being scummy but for having an obnoxious playstyle, I guarantee you there are scum pushing that wagon. They know it will be easy to get townies on board and the mislynch will be much easier. Also, where ryan was attacking JDodge so much it's pretty much a given that scum would see that opportunity and get JDodge mislynched so they could pin it on ryan.

It is plain to me that your attempt to paint thinktank as scum didn't pan out, so you are selecting a different target. Nice try, but none of your arguments hold water.

No one is disagreeing that thinktank did some scummy looking things. I was not taking newbishness into account which could account for a lot of it. This was a noble effort to discredit me, but it's not going to work. My arguments againt you do hold water. Your defense was weak at best and I'm confident the Town will see that you were instrumental in that JDodge lynch, while being sure to keep your hands from getting dirty.

[Setael]

Wow. I'm amazed you'd dismiss my case on Deathsauce like that, MoS. I don't think you can really believe I am scum and Deathsauce is innocent after the JDodge lynch and this Deathsauce case which is pretty damn solid. The only thing that makes sense is that you are Deathsauce's scum buddy trying to distract before the rest of the town can realize what obvscum he is.

The irony of it is that I saw a lot of reasons to suspect Mos and Deathsauce as a scum pair during my reread, but I didn't want to emphasize that because I knew that if I was right, MoS would be able to use that to distract from the Deathsauce case. I'll be shocked if Deathsauce isn't scum, and I wouldn't be surprised if MoS is his buddy.

Can I get a few Townies to comment on Deathsauce? So far I've only heard from the scums.

[Setael]

In that case, how do you explain MoS completely dismissing the Deathsauce case? I don't see how a townie would possibly react the way MoS did.

[Setael]

*sigh*

This game drives me batty.

[Setael]

I never thought he was scum. You were blinded by his playstyle.

[Setael]

@ryan: I said I thought JDodge was NOT scum several times before he was lynched. Evidently you were too one-track minded to notice that I was trying to talk you out of the lynch. Maybe you need a reread to clear your head.

@Deathsauce: You may get lucky and convince a few townies that ryan is scum with statements like "He definitely has the ability to be incredibly sneaky". I see through it and the more you try to paint him as scummy, the more it makes you look like scum.

[Setael]

Obviously I don't believe all 3 of you are scum. Do you not remember me giving reasons for unvoting both you and thinktank?

At this point, I'd be willing to make a 1 for 1 trade since we're dealing with obvscum and I'm the only one who sees it. Lynch me and when I come up town, lynch Deathsauce.

[Setael]

vampy, are you reading the game? I DID bring a proper case against DS. Just because you are dismissing it doesn't make it a bad case.

And you might end up reasons why

you are not voting for DS.

Your second piece doesn't make any logical or strategical sense.

We don't want to lynch possible scum

, much less two.

Tyler, either fix your post or explain yourself. Both bolded items are in all ways wrong.

[Setael]

Scum like to keep their options open. That way, if you get support for either me or CA you can push another mislynch. Just like you did with JDodge.

[Setael]

@Deathsauce: Would you like that hat with some OMGUS sauce on it? Or do you prefer mustard?

The differenct between ryan's push on JDodge and my push on you is that you have done numerous scummy things and I have built a solid case on you; whereas ryan went after JDodge for his playstyle and because he allowed himself to be antagonized.

This will be fun to watch Deathsauce manufacture a case on me.

[Setael]

No. It's not. Deathsauce is scum and his vote on me is OMGUS.

[Setael]

ryan, can you explain how you think my case on Deathsauce is OMGUS?

[Setael]

I repeat: ryan, can you explain how you think my case on Deathsauce is OMGUS?

[Setael]

thinktank wasn't taking a stand. I was. A lot of them, as you pointed out. That happens when you're town and don't know anyone's alignment.

I really don't mind you guys lynching me today. I find games where the Town is stupid and scum is able to lead them to be very annoying. Just promise that when I come up Town you'll lynch Deathsauce since I'm pretty sure about him. I don't have as good an idea who his partner is. Could be vampy, could be MoS. Could even be tyler, CA or thinktank. I doubt it's Ryan but I've been surprised before.

[Setael]

Good question. I think it's highly unlikely, and if Deathsauce comes up Town I would need to reread. Throughout the game there have been a few posts that have made me think that MoS and Deathsauce are not likely scum together, so if Deathsauce came up Town I think I would look closely at MoS.

[Setael]

Why does DeathSauce being town mean I have to be scum? Just because we can' t be scum together does not mean the inverse is also true. That's a hugely fallacious argument there, Setael.

Please quote where I said that if DeathSauce is Town you have to be scum. Check your facts before you accuse me of making a "hugely fallacious argument". I said that I haven't been looking at you very closely because I do not think you and Deathsauce could BOTH be scum and I think Deathsauce is. If I were to find out I was wrong, I would look at you closer. How exactly is that saying you "have to be scum"?

So MoS was the only one she didn't target? Hmm... could be a pair.

Can you please be more clear with your statements? I assume "she" is me? If so, when didn't I target MoS? Are we meant to infer that the pair you are referring to is MoS and I? Yeah. Not clear.

[Setael]

Yeah... how is "I think I would look closely at MoS" the equivalent of "MoS has to be scum if Deathsauce isn't."

Not even close.

[Setael]

Except for the fact that I was saying I'd be doing a reread. Saying you'd look closely at someone while rereading doesn't mean you think they're for sure scum. You seem really worried, actually. I'm not so sure a townie would've jumped to the conclusion you did and tried to paint me as scummy for it.

[Setael]

I really don't like this line of questioning. Obviously Setael and I are quite suspicious of the other, but it seems like you are trying to set up a situation where it is either me or Setael that gets lynched today. There are plenty of other suspicions to be aired by other players in this game.

To be perfectly frank,IF we were to lynch Setael and she came up town I would be rather suspicious of you.

For those of you who weren't sure about deathsauce before, this post was a little cookie for you. Why would deathsauce go after ryan if I came up town? The only answer - he is trying for a 1 - 2 mislynch. After ryan's JDodge push I'd be shocked if he came up scum, but deathsauce has been accusing ryan since day dawned. It seems far too likely a scum maneuver to help lynch JDodge (effectively hiding behind ryan) and then go after ryan as soon as possible once JDodge comes up Town. Also, logically it makes no sense for deathsauce to say he'd think ryan is scum if I come up Town. There's no WAY I would be defending ryan the way I am if he was my scum buddy. Deathsauce's logic makes no sense because he is flailing scum.

You two have been pitting against eachother quite a bit, so asking you both the same question in my opinion is fair and justified. I'm making sure you both don't currently have tunnel vision on eachother as scum (which it looks that way to me) you both look like you are 100% set on the other and it's either a GREAT gambit of distancing or two townies fighting eachother while the scum sit and smile.

ryan, why do you not even CONSIDER the possibility that one of us is Town and the other scum? I am not surprised you disregard his suspicion on me because it is OMGUS and has no basis, but I am frustrated that you are completely disregarding how scummy deathsauce is being.

[Setael]

MoS, why are you trying so hard to make it look like I said that I think you're scum if Deathsauce is Town. I did not say that, nor do I think that so give it a rest.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough about my last Deathsauce point, because you clearly didn't understand it. What I am saying is that Deathsauce saying he would think ryan was scummy if I came up Town DOES NOT mesh with the fact that he has already been attacking ryan since the start of day 2. He was supposedly suspicious of ryan before he decided to throw some OMGUS suspicion on me. His most recent statement trying to link me and ryan made it look like he never believed the reasons he was attacking ryan when day began. Make sense now?

[Setael]

By "link me and ryan" I don't mean linking us as scum buddies I mean linking him to me in this statement:

To be perfectly frank,IF we were to lynch Setael and she came up town I would be rather suspicious of you (ryan).

[Setael]

Thank you thinktank. You have no idea how happy you've made me. It was seriously so painfully obvious that Deathsauce is scum but evidently I'm not good enough at making cases on obvscum. It bites the cop had to be outed in order to get this lynch but no one was agreeing so I don't blame thinktank for claiming.

If you guys let Deathsauce talk you out of lynching him then the Town deserves to lose this game.

[Setael]

Nice try, Deathsauce. There may be some newer players in this game, but they're not idiots. The only reason you're not lynched yet is inactivity.

[Setael]

Deathsauce really does seem to think he can convince some of the townies to not vote him. Which makes me wonder if we can narrow down who his scum buddy is. This may at least give the cop an idea who to investigate tonight.

Mastermind of Sin

vampyrusddg

ryan

Deathsauce

ChocolateAttack
TylerJ

thinktank

Setael

Crossing off everyone that Deathsauce cannot possibly believe he could convince, we are left with vampy, CA and Tyler. Now that I've gotten the thought written out though I'm doubting its accuracy since that would mean his partner would have to be either MoS or ryan and neither do I find likely. I guess that could just be good play on MoS' part. I don't think it's at all possible that it's ryan considering Deathsauce's ryan push today looked nothing like bussing. We just need to lynch deathsauce so we can get another investigation and then I can reread.

[Setael]

I think you're right, ryan. If vampy was a townie he'd have thrown a vote on Deathsauce before leaving. As scum, he's probably hoping his replacement can talk us out of it somehow.

[Setael]

His push on ryan is not out of nowhere. As soon as D2 dawned he attacked ryan. It was pretty obvious that he was planning on trying to make ryan take the heat for the JDodge lynch. I think it VERY unlikely ryan and Deathsauce are scum together.

Looks like you're right that MoS hasn't voted you yet. However, he did say "I think one of vampyrusdog and ChocolateAttack is DS's scumbuddy". Not sure if you were trying to throw suspicion on a townie there or distance from a scum buddy. I still think it unlikely that MoS is your scum buddy but I'd need to reread. I'm going to wait to do so until we find out the cop's investigation results tomorrow.

[Setael]

Tyler, go back and read Deathsauce's first D2 posts. Do you think if he and ryan were scum buddies he would have immediately bussed him like that?

[Setael]

What mysterious numbers from hell? Did I miss something?

[Setael]

Wow, way to go thinktank. I think I was doing a pretty good job of twisting suspicion back onto Setael, but you decided to throw me under the bus. You could have at least given me a couple more days to work at it.


Anyway, Game Over, thinktank is my scum"buddy" who I guess decided I was going to go down. Two can play that game.

L.O.L. Do you really think any of us are stupid enough to believe that?

Ouch! wow thinktank. However, deathsauce, he had a good strategy. If you hadn't of said that, mafia would have won. Still, if we have a cop, shouldn't we have them counter claim the claim so that we know that DS isn't pulling a fast one on us.

Oops. I guess I spoke to soon.

[Setael]

Welcome ibby!

I don't think that thinktank should tell us who the innocent investigation was on AT ALL today since it just narrows down for scum who the doc is and it'd be sweet if they guess wrong tonight.

Is no lynch the way to go? Hmmm...

[Setael]

thinktank if you listen to TylerJ and waste an investigation on me I'll scream. Reread yesterday and see if there's ANY possible way I was bussing Deathsauce.

Up to you who you investigate, but it'll really suck if you waste it on me just because Tyler is not so bright.

[Setael]

Remaining players:

Edion0 replaced by Mr.PiGG vampyrusddg andycyca
ryan
ChocolateAttack replaced by ibaesha
TylerJ
thinktank
Setael

Though we probably will want to No Lynch today, we should have it narrowed down pretty closely. I think it is impossible for ryan to be scum due to the fact that deathsauce's attempt to blame ryan for the JDodge wagon doesn't seem like it could be bussing. He could have easily just gone for someone else since ryan was not the only one pushing the JDodge lynch - there was not much suspicion on ryan at day's start and I don't think he'd have bussed right away like that. So I don't think it's ryan.

thinktank is cleared as cop. He would have been counterclaimed if he was cop, and if there happens to be no cop in the setup, there's just no way thinktank would have come out of the blue, claimed cop and bussed deathsauce. I was the only one who was REALLY convinced about deathsauce. He could've wiggled out of that lynch if not for the cop's results. So it's not deathsauce.

I am virtually cleared by my Deathsauce push. If Deathsauce and I were the only scums, it just makes no sense for me to gun for him the way I did right at the beginning of the day. Though the case on him seemed pretty clear cut to me, it obviously wasn't so clear to everyone else, and there was no reason for a scum buddy to bus him at the beginning of the day like that. I definitely need to reread the Deathsauce wagon to decide who I think the last scum is, but these are my initial thoughts.

So it's between andycyca, Tyler and ibby. If two of these are the people thinktank has investigated, the choice will be evident imo. Likely one of the people thinktank investigated is our doc unless thinktank did not investigate among these three which would be a surprise. If the doc is not among the two thinktank can clear, the doc can claim and that will clear another person. If we decide to lynch today, don't claim right away of course, but if thinktank hasn't already cleared you and we start a wagon on you, then claim of course. Worst comes to worst you're counterclaimed and we have scum narrowed down to 2. It's not lylo yet so that would be a town win.

It could really be any of the 3 I have it narrowed down to, so I'm hoping the cop can clear two of them. Tyler's attempt to get the cop to investigate me at the last minute was definitely not pro-town, but I can't tell if it was scummy or just not smart. This would sum up Tyler's play all game actually. I have thought vampy was scum for a lot of the game, so this would not surprise me. CA now ibby would surprise me, but it is also possible.

If thinktank can't clear 2 of andy, ibby and tyler we definitely need to no lynch today to get another investigation.

Nobody vote until we've talked about it awhile.

[Setael]

Doubtful.

[Setael]

uh, ryan... if we're going to lynch today, we're going to decide who to lynch after thinktank provides investigation results. if it's not narrowed down far enough, we'll no lynch.

Can you provide specifics as to why you think it's tyler?

[Setael]

You really don't think it makes sense to wait to give the results until everyone states their suspicions? You don't think that thinktank's results might alter our scum lists? It's a good way to flush out scum, and I don't see why you're bitter about it.

[Setael]

What's your rush? It's not in the bag yet, turbo. I think it's wise to get each players' scum list before revealing the cop's investigation results. If thinktank didn't investigate 2 of my top 3 I'm certainly not going to be in a rush to pick between the 2.

Granted, town will probably win either way since it will be impossible for scum to pick off all the confirmed townies. As long as thinktank shares his results today, we should be able to win.

[Setael]

Tyler, why are you not at all suspicious of Ibby (replacing CA)?

[Setael]

Ok so this game is stagnating. I think the best plan would be to no lynch and let thinktank make another investigation. Worst that can happen is scum kills the doc or one of those thinktank has investigated. Best case scenario, scum kills someone who hasn't been cleared. Either way, it's impossible for scum to kill our cop since our doc is still alive so tomorrow we'll have the doc claim right off, then have thinktank reveal all investigations. If we're lucky, the choice will be obvious. If not, we'll still be in a pretty good position.

I don't think that thinktank should tell us who has been investigated right now since it makes scum's job easier. Better to wait and get results tomorrow. If we go forward with this plan, everyone needs to check in before the final no lynch vote so we are certain the doc is paying attention and will protect the cop.

vote: no lynch

[Setael]

already said he didn't hit scum. he's got 2 townies. pay attention.

[Setael]

Excuse me? Did I miss where this went from a game to serious business? Guess I better re-read and see if I can find that.

It's always a cheap copout to accuse someone of taking the game too seriously to cover up YOUR mistakes. Seriously, ryan. If he had found scum don't you think he'd have told us right away, since there's only one scum left and it would've meant game over? You were the one who said something stupid, and it only makes you look more stupid to say things like this.

[Setael]

first, ryan i must be missing something somewhere because your antagonism makes no sense to me. This is why you end up getting townies like JDodge mislynched because you push at people and antagonize them until they get angry enough to fight with you, whether they are scum or not. I don't understand why you're getting so bent when the only logical thing you can have to say to me is "You're right, Setael. I missed where he said at the beginning of the day that he didn't find scum last night, and I didn't pull my head out of my ass before talking, since it makes NO SENSE for him to not have told us right away if he found the last scum."

@thinktank: well done on the investigations. Looks like ibaesha is our last scum, which explains why she's been lurking. I guess I could be wrong about ryan, though I'd be shocked. After tonight's investigation, I think the town has a win in the bag.

[Setael]

You're funny, ryan. I can't believe you're not taking credit for that mislynch. Maybe you should reread the exchange between you and JDodge before telling me you're not to blame.

[Setael]

Where did I say it was your one vote? It was not your vote, it was as I already stated if you'd listen, "the exchange between you and JDodge". It was your tunnel vision and your push against him regardless of anything anyone said to you. It made it easy for Deathsauce and probably the other scum as well to jump on and hide behind your arguments, planning to blame you for it the next day. Can you not see how easy you made that for them? If I hadn't called Deathsauce on it, he probably could've convinced the town to lynch you. Any outsider who reads this thread will agree that you are to blame for the JDodge mislynch.

[Setael]

Wow. I'm done talking to you.

[Setael]

He's always acted scummy, but I'd be really surprised if Deathsauce's attack on him for the JDodge push was planned bussing. Ibaesha is much more likely to be the last scum.

[Setael]

Just need to hear from thinktank. This game's in the bag.

[Setael]

mod: Could we get a prod on thinktank?

[Setael]

Thanks for the investigations thinktank. Don't pay attention to Ryan's insults. He is a moron. My guess is Ibaesha didn't make a NK last night because she's checked out of this game since it's obvious she has no chance. She got dealt a pretty tough hand in this game.

vote: Ibaesha

[Setael]

Looks like I hammered. That's a first for me. For a virgin hammer, I think it's a pretty good one.

[Setael]

Go fuck yourself idiot.

you suck, setael

Thanks, guys. Glad this game is over.

[Setael]

Ok, you're right. My apologies.

Ryan, on the other hand, has no excuse.

[Setael]

Everyone else (even TylerJ) did a good job in this game

Are you really saying I didn't do a good job in this game, ryan?

You're a blight upon this site, this game, and I have no clue why the hell you're still around even though you make every attempt to ruin games you do bad in.

You sicken me.

QFT.

[Setael]

Is there a petition somewhere that I can sign to get ryan banned from the site? I'd gladly create several alts and sign it multiple times.

[Setael]

I guess whatever, the last time I checked this site was for fun and when people forget that, than we have problems.

This statement is actually remarkably ironic. Of all the players I've met here, you were the worst at forgetting it's a game, making things personal and getting tunnel visioned. You made personal attacks that weren't deserved or justified against players (JDodge and then me, someone else earlier in the game if I remember right). And guess what? Those players that you focused on with such a narrow mind? We were all townies. So besides doing things like posting your role pm, I have a lot of reasons to never want to play in another game that you are in.