Mini 1748: ClownTardis Mafia - GAME OVER!

[Soren]

First!

Lies, you're not first. VOTE: Persivul

[Soren]

Aristophanes and Plotinus are in the same game, nice.

[Soren]

Aristophanes and Plotinus are in the same game, nice.

That's what I was thinking!

VOTE: Frozen Angel
For accusing Shiro of cheating!
The Doctor would never cheat!

Well, there's a probability of anything. Statistically speaking, if you gave typewriters to a treeful of monkeys, they'd eventually produce the works of William Shakespeare. How do you know Shiro is a doctor?

Counter question, do you have any reason to think she is not?

I don't like this. You dodged the question. Answer it.

[Soren]

Favourite alien race?
Favourite Master?
Favourite episode?

Weeping Angels
Missy
This is a hard one, I have too many. I like all the weeping angels episode, most of the finales, and the one with david tennant where they are trapped on the train and can't look outside (forgot episode name).

[Soren]

Sounds like it. It has that guy who plays Merlin in Merlin.

[Soren]

VOTE: FAQ2
Not quite random.

Elaborate.

[Soren]

Bit quick to judge? Since he hasn't even posted yet. I'd like to see where you go from here.

[Soren]

Ari can you answer the question now. thnx

[Soren]

Haven't had much time to post. I'll post later.

[Soren]

Ari can you answer the question now. thnx

Sure.

The original statement was ambiguous as it could either be Role or Theme related. I find it interesting that FA immediately assumed I meant role, whereas some others assumed theme. However, her wording in particular is also telling.

Basically, if you read the story post, it implies we are all Doctors, in different regenerations. Thus my counter question. What would 1) lead FA to believe Shiro is not a Doctor and 2) lead her to believe we are facing an outside evil, and not, say, a corrupted regeneration while 3) using "a" not "the" as the article precursing "Doctor."

Theory: FA is a non-doctor with a Doctor as a fakeclaim.

Alright, this is really town, it's town motivated.

---

So far I have two scum reads. Davsto for his 27 and 76. The former providing nothing to the game other than to have a little fun based on the flavor. The latter making a comment that doesn't involve working out people's alignment. I find this to be particularly scummy because it's easier for scum to comment on these types of things as opposed to making reads early in the game.

My second scum read is on FA_Q2. Reading through his ISO he offers very little and makes very short comments in response to posts. I find this to be particularly scummy because its a strong scum trait. Knowing everyone's alignment they have a hard time engaging and scum hunting, so they have to resort to making little responses to other players while not making a post which contains their concise thoughts about the game.

VOTE: Davsto

[Soren]

Also, Merry Christmas everyone.

[Soren]

Do tell. Why is it the worst vote?

[Soren]

busy, i'll post tmrw

[Soren]

My second scum read is on FA_Q2. Reading through his ISO he offers very little and makes very short comments in response to posts. I find this to be particularly scummy because its a strong scum trait. Knowing everyone's alignment they have a hard time engaging and scum hunting, so they have to resort to making little responses to other players while not making a post which contains their concise thoughts about the game.

VOTE: Davsto

I don't really know how to respond to this other than to say that it is garbage. I comment on what I think needs commenting on. That is not going to change.

No it's not garbage, because it clearly demonstrates a scum trait that is evident from you.

I comment on what I think needs commenting on. That is not going to change.

This just strengthens my scum read on you. Town doesn't respond like this but scum does.

Because he was using bad meta?

So what? He was town reading you from it. If you're town and you know it's really a null tell, why bother pointing that out? How does that advance this game?

I can either point it out now, or he can dig through my meta later and figure that out. Same result, but in the latter option, he's wasting time he could be using finding scum.

False dichotomy. You could have just let it go.

You can literally see in the post above yours how it helped him form reads. Why would I want to not help other players in forming their reads?

These posts reek of scum trying too hard to appear helpful.

This is a really bad push all around. He gave information - something that is always good as town. I have seen nothing that I would remotely consider townie from you yet. Your 'case' against rob is really stretching at this point.
VOTE: Persivul

Explain to me what the scum motivation is for Persivul to push a case against someone that is posting apparent townie things.

it not the vote per say it is the whole post.

You are accusing someone for fluffing about a show he likes in a game related to the bloody show ?

Like what? walk me through your reasoning. You say you find it pariculary scummy and I cannot comprehent why that would be. Is enjoying a theme and fluff a scum trait to you ?

Enjoying flavor is fine, doing nothing to progress the game is not.

and soren jumps on him(most likely because dav already has some votes on him and it is easier to say you suspect someone other already suspect)

I don't have all the time in the world so others were able to post their observation on it before me. I saw the same thing but was late to the party.

I'm going to need to hear why you're no longer voting me and why you are voting Soren if I'm to remove my vote from you, because from what I can see, your move onto and off of me look awful.

Fuck you.
Bring it on.
I'm not concerned.

You don't make yourself look good with this. It shows a general disinterest towards your scum read on me. Or even the lack of scum read towards me.

Soren:

22, 33, 68, 159 - all questions with little or no follow up. This is an easy way for scum to appear busy without really doing anything.

You point those out and say that I don't follow up when I have.

---

VOTE: FA_Q2
For what I've stated above.

[Soren]

22, 33, 68, 159 - all questions with little or no follow up. This is an easy way for scum to appear busy without really doing anything.

You point those out and say that I don't follow up when I have.

Give the specific posts that follow up to those.

Question 22, 68 Follow up 143
Question 33 follow up 35. How did you miss this one it's two posts down...
Question 159 follow up 208

No it's not garbage, because it clearly demonstrates a scum trait that is evident from you.

It's garbage because it is bullshit. I have offered plenty. There are a lot of players here that have offered FAR less yet I dont see a whole lot of focus on that from you at all. This clearly demonstraits that you have selected

Please explain to me why you find it to be bullshit. I've caught scum doing this many times so its not bullshit.

I have offered plenty.

No you haven't. Look at your iso, it's appalling. The most you done is vote on psersivul, rest are just making bystander commentary and asking simple questions.

There are a lot of players here that have offered FAR less yet I dont see a whole lot of focus on that from you at all. This clearly demonstraits that you have selected

Are you trying to make a point here? Of course I selected you because you're pinging my scum radar.

This just strengthens my scum read on you. Town doesn't respond like this but scum does.

That is utterly false. Scum tend to appease - town does not. Scum post like that when they are trying to be town. What would you have said if I stated you were correct and was going to adjust accordingly?

So you're saying that you're not trying to appease?
The reason why I said that was scum posting because when you say "I comment on what I think needs commenting on" exhibits a scum mindset of only posting what they need to post. In your case, I think you're scum having a hard time setting your foot into the game. Thus leading to many posts that holds little substance.

Explain to me what the scum motivation is for Persivul to push a case against someone that is posting apparent townie things.

He needs a case against someone and it is clear that he thought that Rob would work. Not only is his logic rather lacking, he is REALLY reaching with his 'case.'

Ok makes sense.

Oh for crying out loud, me being a bit slow D1 is entirely null, go put your vote somewhere that is useful.

Also, nothing? Please don't make this game be a repeat of Prozac's Basic Theme where I did loads of shit and still got voted for doing nothing which was blatantly false.

What is your observation of Rob13's 217?

First, no, we don't. I don't know your alignment, and I have no desire to "get on the same page as you" if that means adopting your reads when I think you're scum.

By get on the same page I mean you town reading me, or at least moving me to null.

My biggest problem with you is still this. I just read your "case" on Soren, and it doesn't make sense for you to go off of me and onto him given how strongly you wrote about my play being scummy earlier in the day. Maybe I missed it, but have you explained why I was "better" after the more recent posting? That might be the missing link there, idk.

Prior to that day:
44 - your post on me was bad.
55 - declaring kuroi as newbtown was bad
57 - you make an obligatory town read with no reasoning
120 - you make a misrep of me that IIRC others had already noted was incorrect, then you vote an easy wagon, then add a disclaimer in 121 and again in 123

On that day:
142 - the explanation for volunteering the meta bit was bad
163 and 165 - if davsto's wagon is hitting resistance and Soren's post was horrible, why not move to Soren? It's D1, wagons shift.
But in 170, a horrible post from me was enough to get you to move your vote from the davsto wagon.

If Soren flips scum, you should be looked at next.

I intended to show that your 12.25 posting was better as a defense, but now that I look at it closer, it's pretty bad. Before the game I know I

wanted

you to be town so I could learn something about scum hunting, and I think that played into the post that you're pushing.

I like this a lot. Persi here is explaining the though process behind his actions with utmost articulation. Demonstrating that he knows what he is doing, how is he trying to do it and what he wants to achieve from it. This post is very town.

So, you have no explanation for your transition whatsoever?

Eh? Did he not just explain it in his 265?

It's D1 and there are 12 other players. I don't see a need to pressure them all today.

this is literally the worst excuses whatsoever.

+ If you accusing me of lurking you can come out directly not just publishing noise. I was in bad IRL position as I stated before and I started my job of scum hunting with pressuring you. you didn't start it yet so far But you have strong town reads. this concern me.

I'm starting to see town v town between you two. Suspend discussion because it's not progressing the game state in the appropriate manner and look elsewhere please.

[Soren]

im busy today, posting tmrw

[Soren]

i thought i'd have time to post today, but i dont. posting tmrw ~

[Soren]

After 8 pages of walls after walls I have finally caught up! Okay so I'm going to get this out of the way first, I don't feel very involved in the game because of my lack of presence and interaction with others. On top of this, reading walls after walls is making the game feel rather convoluted, though I am following the main point of what these walls are trying to tell us. People, ask me questions! Interact with me! I want to be involved in the game and I can get more involved when other player's challenges me to think more deeply about the game and player intentions.

To comment on Persivul vs Rob. Rob is winning for me and honestly I feel like sheeping the vote. I have to say that Rob is like Sherlock Holmes, he'll notice the minute details and whether that tells him that someone is scum or town. I particularly find Persivul's bout with Rob to be like flinging dirt at Rob. Persi's argument is convoluted, I don't even know why he's scum reading Rob. Whereas Rob has enumerated and laid out many times as to why Persi is scum. I do not like Persi vote hopping so much. After he unvoted Rob he went from Ari, to FA to Dav to shiro and now to Rob again. What is he actually trying to accomplish with that. For me, it appears as thought Persi is scum trying to fake "proactive towness" and make it look like he is actually doing something in the game when he is not.

I particularly liked Shiro's criticism of Persi's play, in his 447 and 449. He raises an important point that Persi is faking an attempt to pressure players. With the mention of Shiro, I have to say that he is ringing town to me. He may not have posted much, but what he has posted is informing me that he has a town mindset coming into the game, while he is not actively pushing people, he is noticing the little holes that scum were unable to cover up in their plays.

Kuroi is my next scum read that I wish to focus on. Assuming that Persi is scum, Kuroi's 157 would make so much sense if they were scum buddies together. Showing and interest in the scum read but at the same time defending him? What I find most telling about this post is that it came after he unvoted me, which means he's not sitting a on vote. And so if he has a slight scum read, why not place a vote there for the time being? The unexplained reads in his 426 shows scum not knowing what to do in the game and needing to fill a post up with some reads to make it look like he has something important to tell us about the game. Speaking of this, I like Plottin Kittehs' questioning of his reads in their 465. It shows a genuine interest in understanding the reads, this is demonstrated by the quality of the questions as oppose to simply asking "can you explain those reads please". And so I can happily give Plottin Kittehs a town read based on that, the rest of their overall posting is giving me a town vibe too. Anyways, back to Kuroi, I do not like the transition of votes from Rob to Dav in his 501. Not only did he not pressure Rob after voting him, he was coaxed into a lengthy discussion about Frozen Angel's play (who, by the way, is his scum read as stated in his read lists) which resulted in these three posts 433, 434 and 438. Kuroi what were your thoughts on FA after this discussion, you appear to still scum read her but have given no definitive stance after your conversation with her. Instead you placed an opportunistic vote on Dav, after Persi voted for him. Where did your discussion with Frozen Angel lead to and how did you manage to transition from that to a vote on Dav?

VOTE: Persi

Post edit: another 8 posts yay...lol.
And with that vc,

Persi is at L-1 now

[Soren]

I do not like Persi vote hopping so much. After he unvoted Rob he went from Ari, to FA to Dav to shiro and now to Rob again. What is he actually trying to accomplish with that. For me, it appears as thought Persi is scum trying to fake "proactive towness" and make it look like he is actually doing something in the game when he is not.

I just want to be clear on this: Are you saying the

act of vote-hopping

is scummy or the

manner in which he moves between them

is scummy? Because that's too very distinct things. If you're saying that vote-hopping in general is scummy, I do not agree. If you're saying his vote-hopping has not been supported by his reads and it doesn't look genuine, I absolutely agree (which is kind of similar to the transition thing I've been harping on for pages).

Vote hopping in general is not scummy, i just didn't like the way he did it. It felt very "okay i unvoted Rob now, what should I do to appear town. That's right, place a bunch of pressure votes, that's gotta make me look townie". The thing is he wanted to "pressure" them, but not pressure them because he thinks they're scum (or at least, I don't think he stated that), and that's what's most telling about his vote hopping and what faction he is aligned with. So I agree with your latter comment.

[Soren]

I'm intentionally not reading the Kuroi case right now because it looks like it relies heavily on associative tells. Let's wait until the flip, m'kay?

I'm okay with that, one scum at a time.

[Soren]

And thank you for asking me that! It allowed me to think more deeply about it and develop my read based on that vote hopping.

[Soren]

I agree with that, it makes a lot of logical sense.

[Soren]

I've already crumbed and softed my role (and Rob has presumably seen it), so I don't see a need to claim.

Claiming what doctor role you have doesn't do much because it appears as if all 13 doctors are in the game and scum were randomly chosen from them.

I particularly liked Shiro's criticism of Persi's play, in his 447 and 449. He raises an important point that Persi is faking an attempt to pressure players. With the mention of Shiro, I have to say that he is ringing town to me. He may not have posted much, but what he has posted is informing me that he has a town mindset coming into the game, while he is not actively pushing people, he is noticing the little holes that scum were unable to cover up in their plays.

Kuroi is my next scum read that I wish to focus on. Assuming that Persi is scum, Kuroi's 157 would make so much sense if they were scum buddies together. Showing and interest in the scum read but at the same time defending him?

Remember these when I flip.

Remember it for what?

[Soren]

Pers, you don't have any objection to me making public your claim, do you? I've known about your crumb for a while and it doesn't affect my read/decision, but I think it's optimal to let others consider it.

So I'm curious, you knew about the FBI crumb Persi made but still got into a wall fight with him page after page?

Pers, you don't have any objection to me making public your claim, do you? I've known about your crumb for a while and it doesn't affect my read/decision, but I think it's optimal to let others consider it.

Though this is pretty town, you could have just not mentioned his crumb if you were scum. Though I would only argue that this applies if you're the SK. So meaning, at the very least, you're not the SK.

Spoiler:

does your role pm give any hints as to what an SK might look like / what form they might take that you could share with us in paraphrased form? alternatively, what's your take on the earlier "maybe we're all doctors / maybe some of us aren't doctors" discussion?

Also the flavor speculation seems pointless to me. Do we have any reason to think that it's more than dressing to fairly standard roles? I don't see any indication of that in my role pm.

The wiki says that FBI Agent is a very rare role. I had to look it up to see what it did. How did you figure out that you were an FBI Agent?

I looked on site search and the role was used twice in 2015, not counting marathon games, and 3 times in 2014 (again not counting marathon). Why did you think you had a fairly standard role?


The wiki page hasn't been updated since 2011. Does anyone know if this part is valid in current site meta?

"As a result, games with FBI Agent are somewhat evenly split between those that have Serial Killers and those that don't. Unless there is evidence of an SK potentially being in the setup, FBI Agent is essentially a Named Townie."

--P

FBI is pretty standard in Greatest Idea Mafia games, assuming they pick FBI as their role.

---

For now
UNVOTE: Persi
I would be down to lynch Davsto, but Rob, thoughts on Kuroi?

[Soren]

if you go through the truth tables from a basic logic class.

Off topic question because I am always interested in people who practices/demonstrates the use logic. Have you taken logic classes before?

[Soren]

Rob, you should take a step away from the game for now.
Persi, don't antagonize him.

[Soren]

Soren, just want to prove a point to Pers for a second, because I'm getting furious at him lying about me lying (because honestly, that's what it's come down to):

Did you unvote in direct response to what I posted, both his crumb and the rationale for why Dav is better?

I unvoted because I wanted some time to think on it before someone hammered. I suppose what you posted influenced me. Dav is better in the sense that we don't risk losing a FBI. I really want to hear what Mastin's associate scum tell between Persi and Dav is though.

[Soren]

associative*

[Soren]

Question is, would mafia!Persi claim FBI?

[Soren]

if he sure its multiball yes.

Unless his scum team has a role that suggests mutli ball, it would be unlikely that he knows its a multi ball as scum.

[Soren]

I don't think I'm lynching persi today.
VOTE: Davsto

[Soren]

lol what happened in this page

[Soren]

Willing to give you a chance here.

VOTE: Frozen Angel

Eh why? Don't you have your own scum reads?

---

At this stage of day 1 in the game, I'm just waiting for dav to flip.

[Soren]

Willing to give you a chance here.

VOTE: Frozen Angel

Eh why? Don't you have your own scum reads?

---

At this stage of day 1 in the game, I'm just waiting for dav to flip.

wtf is this post.

VOTE: Soren

wtf is this vote

[Soren]

Spoiler:

Just realised Adaptive Heap is talah and mastin neither of these should be making such poor arguments

Hi. You ready to actually interact with the game yet?
Also - we've never played a game together before, have we?
You may know mastin but you don't know me, so how do you assume anything about my arguments in order to say they "shouldn't be poor" (which they're not by the way, no matter how you frame them).
Just wondering how you arrive at that conclusion with no previous experience of me though.
Seems like more shitslinging in addition to Post 379.

I was asking why you made the comment about Not_Mafia's username in the first place.

Also please don't patronise me. I don't find it funny or clever.

-t

And again, I'm not sure how it helps you determine anyone's alignment.

Were you hoping for a pingback from Not_Mafia? You got one. How did you read it?

-t

Mmmnnnyeees?
Kuroi had posted a shitty accusation at Persivul in RVS, lurked and not provided anything afterward, and then when you replaced in decided another RVS post was in order - making a "joke" about your username.
So I pressured him for it because he wasn't providing anything up to that point.

He's starting to seem townish to me now, but he's still on my radar.

You however are making terrible arguments (and one of the posts mastin provided me with in our QT in the initial burst she had, was that she had burden of proficiency on you).
Considering you're scumreading our slot and you're saying *I* should be posting better (while failing to see why I'm doing things), I'm giving you the second-most-likely scum in this game mantle.
Happy with that? Wanna chat?

-t

That's a lot of questions you asked not_mafia and come of very defensive, though I'm not sure if that's a reason to scum read you yet.
I like that you kept tabs on kuroi and have developed a read on him though.

(and one of the posts mastin provided me with in our QT in the initial burst she had, was that she had burden of proficiency on you).

I wholly disagree on this point. Not_mafia lurks in every game and rarely scum hunts, and when he does he only makes one or two points. I'm interested in why mastin has a burden of proficiency on not_mafia. I'm more interested in why it appears as though mastin is posting more in your hydra topic as opposed to the game?

Spoiler:

I don't think I'm lynching persi today.
VOTE: Davsto

Hi!

Can you please summarise how you moved from wanting to lynch Persivul in the big post you made (the relevant part of it is here):

To comment on Persivul vs Rob. Rob is winning for me and honestly I feel like sheeping the vote. I have to say that Rob is like Sherlock Holmes, he'll notice the minute details and whether that tells him that someone is scum or town. I particularly find Persivul's bout with Rob to be like flinging dirt at Rob. Persi's argument is convoluted, I don't even know why he's scum reading Rob. Whereas Rob has enumerated and laid out many times as to why Persi is scum. I do not like Persi vote hopping so much. After he unvoted Rob he went from Ari, to FA to Dav to shiro and now to Rob again. What is he actually trying to accomplish with that. For me, it appears as thought Persi is scum trying to fake "proactive towness" and make it look like he is actually doing something in the game when he is not.

I particularly liked Shiro's criticism of Persi's play, in his 447 and 449. He raises an important point that Persi is faking an attempt to pressure players. With the mention of Shiro, I have to say that he is ringing town to me. He may not have posted much, but what he has posted is informing me that he has a town mindset coming into the game, while he is not actively pushing people, he is noticing the little holes that scum were unable to cover up in their plays.

...to not wanting to lynch him here:

I don't think I'm lynching persi today.
VOTE: Davsto

You seemed pretty invested in "one of Rob or Persivul is scum".
You mentioned the FBI agent role a couple of times in your sentence-long posts in between...
But I wonder why the claim changes your aspect on lynching if you think the slot's still scummy.

Did you decide not to lynch Persivul because you thought he was town, or because you wanted to preserve the claim?
The shift isn't making much sense from my perspective.

I'm like 70/30 on the claim. The 70 being that I find it hard to fake. There's been a lengthy discussion already and my thoughts resonate for the arguments for it.

But I wonder why the claim changes your aspect on lynching if you think the slot's still scummy.

I've lynched many townies who have acted scummy, I think this will be one of those times if I do not move my vote from persi.

lol

Either stop responding in this manner or actually respond to them with logic. Because this does nothing for you.

[Soren]

And I like comatose, whispers in the dark and the last night from skillet.

[Soren]

This is interesting.
I'm at L-1, and I don't think I've seen a single half-decent reason for voting me.
I was slow early today, which is part of a non-alignment-indicative meta that two people have corroborated, so voting me for that is bullshit.
Me defending Persivul? Scummy? I was the next biggest wagon after him, and if people decided to move off him, I'd likely be the next lynch. What sort of batshit scum motive would I have to defend Persivul?
Other than that, I've seen no reasons. Come on guys, this is just pathetic. I've given some decent reasons for Rob being scum, and there he is sitting there and lazily pushing me, likely because he knew I was onto him.
For crying out loud, anyone with half a brain can see that my wagon is absolutely awful, scum-motivated, and lacking any competent reasons.
Lynch scum, not someone who is being a bit slow day one because he's an easy target.

I have to admit, I changed my vote onto you because your play is poor and not helping town. And right now this post feels very much like frustrated town, and you're right in thinking that scum is capitalizing on an easy lynch target.
UNVOTE: dav

I get the impression that Soren is trying to stay out of the limelight in most of his posts.

Develop.

RC
RRRRRCCC
Let's do this

VOTE:SOREN

Not only is he playing very very similarly to a scum game of his we had.
His town read on me seemed weird, he is passive and seems to be trying not to draw attention.

Explain how I am passive.
Not many people are interacting with me so my post number is lacking in that regard. And when I take my time to catch up with the game on an almost daily basis, I comment on things that has happened and share my reads.

Game in question
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=64027

I remember that game quite clearly and I don't see how you're drawing a parallel with my play in this game with that game that. I was accused of being hyper aggressive, stiff and asked awkward questions. That kind of play is not evident in this game.

Well actually I like soren vote as well. I need to reread to see his posts again.

Still catching up as I make this post but I hope you provide something if you're going to vote me.

FAQ replies that that is garbage and that he replies to what needs to be replied to and ignores the rest. Soren insists this is a scumtell. This argument is dumb enough that it could be early distancing.

Honestly, I insist that it is a scum tell because I see myself doing it a lot. Granted perhaps that only applies to me, especially when playstyles vary from player to player. But that's exactly why I pressured him for it, I wanted to work out whether or not that is also a scum tell for him.

I'm wondering if the main reason that FAQ vs Soren feels like scum theatre is that I'm scumreading FAQ already.

Is it for similar reasons that I am scum reading him?

Soren townreads Persivul for 265 because he explains his thought process articulately. I am not sure that's a towntell! I think this is a really black and white approach to the game that penalises the inarticulate and lets people who are good at showing their work slip through. It's going to depend on the player's personality and their playstyle and I think if you sincerely scumhunt in this manner then you're going to wind up scumreading the same group of people in every game and townreading another group of people in every game, regardless of which alignment they happen to draw. You've been here for a year and a half so I don't believe this thought process is genuine.

You have a point there. It just resonated with me because I feel as though town scum hunting knows exactly what they're doing, and so when I saw an articulated post explaining his thought process it rung town to me. Because I feel as though scum flip flops more with their scum hunting as it is not genuine. Of course, a good scum player would be aware of the tactics they want to employ in the game, how they're going to do it, and do it. Thus they too would be able to articulate their actions as well. But then aren't we treading along wifom territory? I guess at this point that tell is null, but given that I believe his claim to an extent, it still gives off a little bit of a townie vibe.

For example, look at this ISO from a townie in a completed game. inarticulate. short comments. incoherent. mostly correct scumreads actually but never amasses enough towncred to do anything about it (not even when he was conftown by virtue of not being CCed). I don't believe you've never seen an inarticulate townie before or a long winded scumbag before and your approach to the game is pretty shallow.
You can do better than this.

Thanks for the kick up the arse, I need things like that to motivate me to think more deeply about a game.

I know that Mala and Soren recently hydraed together as scum so I want to talk to Mala about Soren when she's around next.

Yes please ask what Mala thinks of me because she can read me really well.

I accuse him of engaging in scum theatre with FAQ, point out that the binary thinking of "short posts = scum, long posts = town" is unlikely to be genuine (therefore is scum pushing people on bullshit instead of actual scumhunting), I did like some of his later posts but not enough for me to move him into the town category.
What part of this sounds like a townread?
--P

It is a rather naive way of thinking.

I don't want to confbias anyone.
Does anyone agree?

Not wanting to confbias seems pretty townie because it shows that you care about your read. But at the same time, you let other people do most of the work in terms of trying to work me out.

I give up on this game.
Dav is scum because he's:
- Done very little scum hunting.
- Constantly prioritized defending himself over scum hunting.
- Attacked exclusively the person who's pushed his wagon
- Pushed with extraordinarily weak or sketchy rationale several times. See, for example, the post I quoted as his scummiest recently.
Like, he's had plenty of time and 35 pages to start scum hunting but there's nothing there. If the best he can come up with is pushing the person who suggests the mod may give fake claims as likely scum, since obv only scum knows about fake claims ... That's someone trying to look like they're scum hunting, not someone actually doing anything. He's hiding behind a meta that I don't think is that accurate, and the little scum hunting he's done doesn't seem at all genuine.

I'm starting to feel like this push is coming from scum. Give dav a little legroom. Little scum hunting does not equate mafia, you know this rob. And it is making me re-evaluate what you said to me when I pointed out you continuously arguing with Persi even after you noticed his crumb.

Yup. I already explained why the claim didn't change anything for me. I consider it unverifiable.

While it is unverifiable, I'm on the side that it is a little more likely to be true than to be false. If he is SK, why crumb/claim FBI in the risk of getting cced. If he is mafia why crumb/claim FBI when he doesn't know if there is a SK in the game, especially when a SK

can be

verified by the end of the first night. The only counter I can think of to this is that scum!Persi crumbed FBI but only wanted to use it as a last resort to get out of getting lynched, which is what he did. But again, that leads me to question why would scum!Persi choose to crumb FBI specifically instead of something else?
I feel like you're scum pushing for anyone who is misplaying their town game. In the instance of Persi, you discredit his claim for being "unverifiableness" and in the instance of Dav you're pushing him for being an unhelpful "scum".
VOTE: Rob13

I can go for Soren I guess VOTE: Soren

You guess...? I'm assuming you agree with some of the points made against me, please tell me what they are and why you like them enough to vote for me.
And what happened to your adaptive heap scum read?

There's a lot to go through and I'm doing my due diligence, but I can't quite find it.
I am OK with a Davsto lynch because he's shown to not care about the game nor a willingness to place it as a priority. His posts have also reeked of scum. I've considered changing to another lynch, namely Not_Mafia, but we need a lynch and don't have the time so I'm going with what's viable.

Sounds opportunistic. Comes into the thread but not bothered to read the case on me and so he falls on the easier wagon instead.

FYI mastin's posted on precisely *one* occasion in our hydra PT, about half a dozen posts summarising her thoughts on various players, which I did mention (this was at the same time she moved our vote to Davsto).

Gotcha.

[Soren]

Like, this was literally scum convo in pregame

rob: OMG WE'RE SO GOOD IN THE GAME IN SCUM CHAT PRO PLAYERS ALL AROUND
ah: YEA WE GONNA ROLL THIS SCRUB TOWN HARD DEFEND EACH OTHER CHAINSAW ALL GAME EZ WIN TOWN REAL DUMB WALK ALL OVER THEM

This is too hilarious.

[Soren]

I've been super busy lately, and I've caught up, albiet mostly skimmed things. But i know what's been going in the game and stuff.

I want to lynch either adpative heap or kuroi today.

VOTE: Adaptive Heap

[Soren]

So Persi/RC/Aero is a town read for you now then Rob?

[Soren]

So Persi/RC/Aero is a town read for you now then Rob?

What???????????????????????

No, they're not. Davsto and Pers/RC/Aero are both independently competing to be my strongest scumread to the point I'm beginning to doubt my meta tell, especially after Adaptive's comments yesterday.

But dav and persi cant be scum together according to you.

[Soren]

So why did scum kill Shiro over Rob, who claimed jailkeeper.

[Soren]

So why did scum kill Shiro over Rob, who claimed jailkeeper.

For one, exactly what you just did. For two, potential doc protection. For three, jailkeeper is not that powerful in a role madness game with strong town. It will block town PRs more often than not. For four, I'm an easy lynch, probably. No reason to kill someone who they can push and get killed.

By the way, question to all players: should I be claiming my night action target? I don't see any drawback, but I've also never been in the position of a claimed roleblocker/doc before, so I'm not sure if I'm missing something.

1. Ok
2. What do you mean? Why would scum want there to be a doc protect in the game?
3. But would scum want to risk getting one of them jailed especially if they're the one making the factional kill?
4. No one's pushing you right now. (well maybe except me with my questioning but right now I'm not interested in lynching you)

[Soren]

im a busy bee
posting later

[Soren]

I forgot that broseiden is actually a player in the game.