Mini 1728: Circus Mafia (Game Over)

[Zulfy]

What uuuuuup. Nice to be back, I had a lot of fun with this thing like three years ago, forgot how to vote tho. I was a goat and my name was name user, or user of names or some shit. Good times.

Vote:Performer get him outta here.

Nah I just figured it out

VOTE: Perfomer

[Zulfy]

You feeling ok brother?
Your failure to post anything coherent, strangely gives me weak town-feels.

I can vouch that this is Lapsa's playstyle. Only played with him as town though.

Toolenduso, Keyser and Lapsa for scumteam

Lapsa meaninglessly engaging Keyser, Keyser conveniently deciding this makes him town, Lapsa backing that notion up.

Wait no, scum's not gonna make it that easy.
If Toolenduso is townie, just being frank about Lapsa, then Lapsa's just bad at this day 1 thing. Keyser's townread on him is still weird tho.

If Keyser and Lapsa is scum, Keyser wouldn't be townreading him so quickly, you seem like a smart player Soze,

So Lapsa-scum and Keyser-scum are mutually exclusive.

If Toolenduso scum, it suggests Lapsa scum.

[Zulfy]

LAPPSSAAAAAA

Bump

Not

GrayFoxxxx = wants to be null-read.

GrayFoxxxx earns half a town-point for these 3 contributions.
Scum want to be town-read not null/scum-read.

Not true. Null-read is a lot easier to manage. Maybe you're just bad at this reading thing.

[Zulfy]

lapsa and triv mafia team confirmed

VOTE: lapsa

Explain! You don't talk too much.

Am I allowed to triple post like this? I'll try not to from now on. In any case VOTE: Garmr for being so quiet.

[Zulfy]

@JarJarDrinks - I asked you these questions because you have short-sightedly concluded that I would

only have scum-motivation to ask

that simple game set-up related question. There is no evaluation which I hoped for/expected. You earn a scum point for that reaction.

"short-sightedly concluded" is a strange way to describe something that you're handing out scum points for.

Just to confirm, do you therefore support Trivium's reasoning:

You didn't give a response to his point. If he is being foolish by suspecting that you're scum because of the daychat question,

why then would you say that he has earned scum points?

Also, I might be wrong here, but I think that the fact that you've asked that in all your town games means little, since you've only ever played as town on this forum.

[Zulfy]

@Trivium, neither did you

[Zulfy]

Vote: JarJar

For not baking down from an obviously bad position.

but Lapsa is also scummy.

I agree with your observation, but not your conclusion. If it was so obvious JarJar wouldn't be pursuing that.
Keyer Soze, you haven't answered my question.

[Zulfy]

I like JarJar's point in 42 about Keyser trying to appear town with that question.

...

I'm just going to leave this here.

Also this.

So what?
He said he asks every game, and that's fine. I believed him.
His reaction to people's reactions to it is what I don't like right now.
Why did you go out of your way to find these, Tool?

Which one is it? You either believe him and it's null, or you believe JarJar and he's trying to appear town.

Also, why the need to signal everyone that RVS has ended?
We can figure that out, we're not imbeciles. That part of the post also reads as "look at me, I got us out of RVS! I'm so town!"

Stretching it. Trying to manipulate my emotions? Nah.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Trivium

[Zulfy]

Soze the main point of that post is that you and Lapsa can't both be scum, but I suspect neither of you are so it's not a very useful observation.

[Zulfy]

Toolenduso I'm voting Trivium because

I can't see any other motive Keyser could of had for asking whether maf. have day talk other than to appear townie. Townie doesn't need to appear townie. Therefore-

VOTE: Keyser

Really? Can't see

any

other motive? And he calls out Lapsa for a RVS vote (granted, Lapsa hasn't really talked about any of his votes) although that might just be him overlooking that it was an RVS vote, but it still raised my eyebrow. This could be just inexperienced playing, it's actually looking a lot like that to me now that I'm reviewing it, but this next thing:

Hey tooleanduso, why don't you explain your buddying with Keyser?

At this point I think the evidence points to Keyser being town

I am voting a Keyser-Tool scum team.

[Disturbing gif]

How can you hold all three positions within 3 posts of eachother?

Makes him look more like a scum who's messing up.

[Zulfy]

So what do you think of Trivium's #98 and #99?

Either brutal townie honesty or nebulous scum manipulation. Also I forgot to mention this, but the wagon on him is a good opportunity to put some big pressure on somebody for the first time in this game.

[Zulfy]

Aristophanes you just gonna ignore my assault on you?

[Zulfy]

Nvm, but I expect an answer when you come back.

[Zulfy]

I dislike this post from Zulf:

Vote: JarJar

For not baking down from an obviously bad position.

but Lapsa is also scummy.

I agree with your observation, but not your conclusion.

If it was so obvious JarJar wouldn't be pursuing that.

Keyer Soze, you haven't answered my question.

Feels like he's talking about me as if he's knows for sure I'm town

If you're scum you wouldn't be going after Keyser for something that could quickly be seen as an easy target. You did do that, so did Trivium. That's why I thought Trivium was just making some bad moves as town.

[Zulfy]

Trivium you haven't responded to Keyser's points. 132 and 133 are the ones I'm most interested in hearing. I want to lynch you until you give a good answer to these.

[Zulfy]

Two more questions though, so that I understand your reasoning:
Did you think that I posted that question to convince everyone I was town?
Do you think I had no other motive? [/font]

What's with that devil emoji? What's the motive? I'm guessing it's something benign but I'd like you to be clear on things.

[Zulfy]

So uh, you're not gonna even attempt to put up a defense Trivium? Noted.

Zulfy:

-Not a big fan of #191. It's like he's giving himself an out in case he wants to bail from the Trivium wagon.

I'm giving

Trivium

an out, if he would only give a coherent defense I wouldn't keep my vote on him. The clumsy townie explanation would satisfy me for now. It's as simple as that and should be fairly self-evident.

[Zulfy]

JarJar’s Post 125 gives me bad bad vibes.

care to expound?

Justifying voting Keyser only because its a popular wagon.

You need to reread that post dude.

I'm seeing the same thing he's seeing. Please clarify it.

[Zulfy]

VOTE: makara

Just saw Tri's recent post, and that's striking me as frustrated town .

UNVOTE: Trivium

How about the fact that he's yet to even

acknowledge

the points made against him? Don't that strike you as just a tiny bit scummy?

[Zulfy]

Trivium

[Zulfy]

What are the points against me? I think I forgot.

Go look at them, and then get back to me.

[Zulfy]

Trivium, why did Keyser go from being scum in 108 to townie in 109, why is Keyser never having asked the daychat question as scum

make

him scum in your next post?

[Zulfy]

Congrats Fox have fun with that

Soze, why does my pre-associative flip unnerve you? Why not mention it earlier?

Trivium should be lynched today, i don't understand why we're just letting him slide. His lack of cooperation is killing any sort of leniency I might have had for him before, he hasn't done much other than talk about all the things he's going to do.

[Zulfy]

Trivium Wagon breakdown:
Zulfy: Quotes me, twice. Points out a discrepancy in my Keyser read (though not really, as it was a progression within the same post, but I digress). Then votes Triv without mentioning him?? Weird. Maybe scum slipping a vote in slyly? I don't think so though. I'm not null on this post, I'm torn on it. No ranking available at this time.

[...]


Ohey, finally a vote-reason from Zulf. It's...meh. Doesn't really make me feel either way on him. I don't like it when I am conflicted for too long and it generally degrades to a null-scum read because town are more pushy and scum more null a lot of the time. I think that's a good spot for Zulf right now in fact. He also then comments on the fact that we can finally put some pressure on somebody, woohoo, but refrains from doing so himself. Yep, that pushes him firmly into a scumlean. cool.

How about walking me through that progression then?
I don't refrain from doing anything, I voted Trivium because I believe him to be scum and saw a good-looking wagon on the guy, I wanted to see how he would react to an L1 on him, his reaction hasn't satisfied me, although it apparently has for the rest of the wagon.

To everyone: I'll give a wider read tomorrow on things.

[Zulfy]

Soze, why does my pre-associative flip unnerve you? Why not mention it earlier?

This was your

second

post:

Toolenduso, Keyser and Lapsa for scumteam

Lapsa meaninglessly engaging Keyser, Keyser conveniently deciding this makes him town, Lapsa backing that notion up.

Wait no, scum's not gonna make it that easy.
If Toolenduso is townie, just being frank about Lapsa, then Lapsa's just bad at this day 1 thing. Keyser's townread on him is still weird tho.

If Keyser and Lapsa is scum, Keyser wouldn't be townreading him so quickly, you seem like a smart player Soze,

So Lapsa-scum and Keyser-scum are mutually exclusive.

If Toolenduso scum, it suggests Lapsa scum.

Personally, to line up scum-connections that early is unnerving. How about we do this after someone has been investigated/someone has flipped. Otherwise it is dangerous/harmful if you were to make decisions upon that analysis.

So the fact that it's my second post unnerves you? Do you disagree with any of the points I made in that post?

Trivium should be lynched today

, i don't understand why we're just letting him slide. His lack of cooperation is killing any sort of leniency I might have had for him before, he hasn't done much other than talk about all the things he's going to do.

Ok, you've been fixated on Trivium for quite a while now. It's easy to talk about Trivium. Have you focused on any other players? Do you feel comfortable only talking about 'lynch-bait Trivium'?

Do you see "lack of cooperation" coming from scum or town?

I have been fixated on Trivium, I'm not going to let up on him either. I'm also interested in Aristophanes, and I'll be getting to that shortly, but I want Trivium lynched today.

[Zulfy]

Makara how you feeling about Aristophanes?
Garmr did you explain 143?
Performer, what's so genuine about JarJar's 153?

Pedit: Tool, I at least want BlueMoon to get the same amount of leniency that Trivium had during his wagon, I don't think he's had a chance to respond. I don't mind a lynch on him, but I'd much much much prefer a lynch on Trivium. I won't vote for him until I feel he's had a chance to respond. I don't get the scumreads on him, to me he seems null. So no vote from me until then.

[Zulfy]

Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:40 pm
Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:44 pm
Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:37 pm

Somebody explain this.

[Zulfy]

Thinking things over, I DO mind a lynch on bluemoon, he hasn't even been lurking, inactive is the better word.

[Zulfy]

Tool what makes Blue look scummy to you?

[Zulfy]

Hmmmmmmmmmm
I'm Natalie Imbruglia

Seems to me like it's exactly the same as what I thought of Trivium. (Scummy-looking from one perspective, newbie innocence from the other)

Like I said, no lynchie until he gets back/is replaced on my end.

[Zulfy]

Makara you've yet to answer me.

[Zulfy]

Will post tonight

[Zulfy]

Garmr Garmr Garmr, don't let me forget about Garmr.

Yo Keyser what's that about Tool's defense and Trivium? I'm having trouble finding that.

I at least want BlueMoon to get the same amount of leniency that Trivium had during his wagon

But triv @ least is being active and posting stuff. He tried to defend himself. Bluemoon has 6 garbage posts including a promise to post more like 4 days ago. Exactly how much leniency should he be given?

Are your points on BMR strong enough to now suspect the bird?

Makara
What about day 2 will mean you'll be able to get a better read on Aris?

[Zulfy]

meh blue moon monkey man could be scum but it's pretty murky would perfer to lynch someone who is active and scummy. Aka trivium,lapsa or performer.

Lapsa/Performer? On what grounds?

I have gotten icky vibes from BlueMoon when skimming the first time, so I will post my

Intent to hammer

but not for a couple of days.

No way should you be posting your intent to hammer - you still need to catch up with the thread and post your re-reads of everyone.

VOTE: Aristophanes

Are you voting for him based on this alone?

[Zulfy]

Aris

- townread. Sure he only has like 2 posts w/ any real content but I like em.

He seems to have very similar thoughts to me.

Keyser

- I think I'm townleaning now. The daytalk question was proved to be non-alignment indicative though I didn't like how he initially responded to the pressure. But he hasn't really done anything else since then that reads scummy to me despite being superactive.

Gimlear

- mostly null maybe a slight townlean

due to him having similar reads to me

and asking some decent questions. Would like him to post more.

Zulfy

- null. I got some scum pings from him early game cause

I felt like he was buddying me

but other than that I like his posts.

Performer

- I definitely don't have a problem w/ people scumreading him cause he does come across pretty scummy. I'm just hesitant cause like I said, I lead a mislynch on him in the one game we played together so it's definitely possible for him to be scummy as town. null for now

makara

- was gonna say null but after a reread I think I'm slightly scumleaning. Most of his posts are pretty contentless. The only thing he's really given us was his one readlist. Would like to see more from him as well.

Garmr

- scumleaning. I feel like alot of his reasoning is empty. Giving keyser that early townread cause of the "way he handled his wagon" really didnt sit well w/ me. I thought keyser handled his wagon pretty poorly. And his "I think scum pushed tri up to l-1 on purpose" argument seems contrived as well. Plus he was damn defensive when I called him out about it.

1) When did I buddy you?
2) Did the other ones not buddy you? (I'm assuming here, that

they

agreed with

you

and not the other way around)

Why did Keyser handle his wagon poorly?

[Zulfy]

What worries me most at moment is performer and lapsa. They have similar reads and voting pattern yet they scum read each other and don't question why they got similar behavior.

oh

[Zulfy]

I get a feeling that right now scum are backing off of pigeon because its a harder wagon now that the slot is actually posting...

you are bad at this game, triv

Because his scum

Trivium is bad at the game because he is scum. <------ You

In the game Mafia, bad play is indicative of scummyness?
or
A player such as Trivium is bad at the game Mafia when playing as a scum?

[Zulfy]

Care to expound Garmr? Last I checked Lapsa had Performer as null.

@Aristophanes. Keyser's 202 nullifies your point on his 197, why'd you skip over that? Also could you link to things instead of making me navigate through the whole topic to get what you're talking about?

[Zulfy]

Toolenduso, Keyser and Lapsa for scumteam

Lapsa meaninglessly engaging Keyser, Keyser conveniently deciding this makes him town, Lapsa backing that notion up.
Wait no, scum's not gonna make it that easy.

Lol, probably town. Very cheeky if scum, probably just town.

I don't get it.

Which one is it? You either believe him and it's null, or you believe JarJar and he's trying to appear town.

This isn't strictly true. There is a 3rd option which is that Aris has no real opinion on the matter but doesn't see why other people cannot. Here is what happened.

Trivium expressed suspicion of Keyser for asking the question at all.
Tool brought up evidence that Keyser does this as town, invalidating Trivium's case.
Aris points out to Tool that Keyser having town meta of this does not make Keyser town necessarily (although Tool himself never really expressed a formal opinion on the matter of the meta he found so I do still want to know what he thinks, Trivium's opinion aside. So I'm not sure what you are getting at with this post; Aris is just prodding for follow up on Tool's opinion which is a pretty town thing to do. I have generally liked the rest of your posts :S

Here, let's traverse time and space and visit the person that I used to be.

I like JarJar's point in 42 about Keyser trying to appear town with that question.

Zulfiqar here! So you see, JarJar said that Keyser was trying to appear town by publicly asking about daychat, and Aris likes that point he made.

...

This ellipsis signifies a break within the quote I'm quoting.

I'm just going to leave this here.

Also this.

So what?

He said he asks every game, and that's fine. I believed him.

Woah! Hold up hold up. If you believed Keyser had innocent intentions when asking that question, why like Jar's point that he's trying to appear town with it?

His reaction to people's reactions to it is what I don't like right now.
Why did you go out of your way to find these, Tool?

Which one is it? You either believe him and it's null, or you believe JarJar and he's trying to appear town.

I stand by this question. Aris disregarded it as saying that he wasn't contradicting himself, rather it was a "progression" within the same post but I don't see it.

[Zulfy]

Have we really learned nothing from Trivium?
He's not going to claim, even if he could.

Tool, not voting for Triv AT ALL or just not right now?

[Zulfy]

He's not going to claim, even if he could.

?

Even if he

isn't

scum. He could be doctor and he'll just hem and haw until day-end.

[Zulfy]

Keyser where you from if you don't mind me asking.

I have a lot of soul (read:ISO) searching to do, plus a Law and Order episode to watch. Be back soon.

[Zulfy]

Keyser is on my watch list for that oddness with the question on mafia daychat.

I read this as: if Keyser's wagon picks up I'll be sure to add my vote

Yeah I thought the same thing.

JJD-Keyser is striking me as town v town.

And then you know what Trivium does?

I can't see any other motive Keyser could of had for asking whether maf. have day talk other than to appear townie. Townie doesn't need to appear townie. Therefore-

VOTE: Keyser

HE VOTES KEYSER! Sorry I go back and re-read the thread (Mass ISO reads aren't for me, I found out) and the first scum-impulse I get is with Trivium.
It's always been Trivium.
I'ma keep going but wanted to share this.

Pedit: Although rude, I'm not against lynching James McCloud

[Zulfy]

If Trivium both is cop and survives tomorrow, are y'all against FORCING him to tell us who he investigated and the result?
Because if we're keeping him alive I want to get something out from him.

[Zulfy]

The way I see it, viable lynch candidates are Garmr, Grayfox, Trivium (still? please?) and Performer

[Zulfy]

Zulfy, from my perspective, post 69 shows Keyser deliberately misinterpreting what I was saying. What I said was that I had a scum read on him, and his interpretation of that post was apparently that I would vote him when his wagon picked up. I looked over Keyser's posts again after I posted post 59 and thought Keyser was scummier than I previously thought, so I changed my mind and just decided to vote him. I don't understand what you see wrong about someone saying they suspect someone for saying something and later voting it.
EDIT: If I live tomorrow, why wouldn't I tell who I investigated and what they came up as. I'm two-shot cop by the way, I can only do two nights of investigation, but I don't think I will be living that long, so whatever. How about I take a poll? Who should I investigate and why?

I.... believe you

UNVOTE: Trivium

Investigate makara

[Zulfy]

VOTE: Greyfox

[Zulfy]

Spoiler: Tool, annotated

Gray:

-#138 also has the classic look of scummy hesitation.
-Pretty clear in #249 that he's not putting a ton of effort into the game. Makes sense given his wife was close to giving birth + work + his attitude toward D1. Also explains activity level.
-I mean I

could

go for a Gray lynch but he wouldn't be my first pick or even my second.

Neither was he mine, but we're trying to stop a no lynch here, it's called compromise

Lapsa:

-Voting goes Aris (ostensibly RVS), Keyser, BMR, triv, makara, BMR, and then an unvote of BMR in #431 right after AP replaced in.
-So definitely some hopping on popular wagons, but also use of vote and short but pointed posts to get convo moving.
-I'd feel about the same lynching Lapsa as I would Gray, which is to say I feel like there are better wagons.

So you feel Lapsa and Gray have been equally scummy?

Makara:

-Scumlean on Triv and scumread on BMR in #231. Asks Triv why it would be a mistake to lynch him...part of me wonders if this is scum picking up on a possible PR hint and trying to out the role, and the other part wants to give him the benefit of the doubt that he was literally just asking Triv to defend himself, which a few other people also did.
-Hops on Triv wagon in #477, cites Triv's defense of himself.
-I could see this slot being scum just because there's a decent amount of posting but not a ton of depth to it and he follows two popular wagons at convenient times, including one that is now very probably town.

And I'm breaking out the Gimlear one because that's where I'm gonna vote.

Gimlear:

-Didn't notice it last time because I was focusing on what he was saying about Keyser, but in #155 he basically sheeps popular town opinion on Triv and says he'll wait for Triv to post a defense, then votes him in #174 (his next post) for not having a good defense. Classic argument is hesitation to look scummy.

I'm having trouble understanding your last sentence

-In #219 he says he might buy my argument for townTriv if Triv defends himself better. Which kind of undermines the town perspective. Why does him defending himself make him more likely town? Why would scum be fine with being lynched?

I feel like you're misrepresenting this, Triv had a bad defense of himself, which naturally makes someone suspicious of Triv.

-Points for BMR vote in #250 are borrowed and come as the wagon is gaining momentum.
-The whole "let's lynch the claimed cop"

You know you shouldn't use quotes unless the person actually said that. Up until very recently I didn't believe Trivium's claim and was fine with lynching him.

thing...in a way that's just alignment null because scum who understand the scumminess of that position probably would not say that, knowing that it would make them look bad. The argument then becomes whether scumGimlear only thought of that because he wasn't thinking from a towny perspective...don't think I can sign onto that as being more believable than the alternative just on its own.

So why is he your strongest scumlean?

VOTE: Gimlear

You really think we can get a Gimlear wagon going with less two~ hours left?

Gray and Lapsa -- both basically just "hey let's throw darts at the board" type lynches, neither would give a ton of info (both because of content of ISOs and because both have been periodically suspected by a few people for lack of inactivity and we couldn't do much examining of reasons should they flip town). I feel there are better lynches we could be going after.

We need a viable wagon right now and you should know that.

vote Grayfox

[Zulfy]

Who's on right now?

Me and you

[Zulfy]

Deadline's in like an hour no?
You gon vote or what?

[Zulfy]

I just don't think that can happen.
JJD where'd ya go?
I'm going to bed.

Pedit: ya see?
EY JDD you should vote if your're gonna vote.

[Zulfy]

Well shit

[Zulfy]

Anyway Grayfox's flip isn't revealing much to me, neither is Triv's. I'll be looking at Triv's interactions now though. For now VOTE: Makara for being the least active in this game.

Pedit: Yo Tool what you talking about old fashioned way?

Spoiler: Lightheartedness

Found my old account! NameUser goatman. Hey AP! Why didn't you mention we played together before? And holy shit did that town self-destruct tho. I mean, holy. shit. did that town self destruct. Tool if you want you can use that for meta,

[Zulfy]

VOTE: Makara

[Zulfy]

Garmr is reading town to me for the hard push on Triv.

[Zulfy]

Scumhunting.

Also I just realized that Triv being killed tells us scum probably does not have a roleblocker.

Just so I'm understanding here: If they could keep Triv alive they would have because there was enough suspicion on Triv to try to get him lynched? If so, how would they deal with the result that Triv comes up with for the night? To me it seems a better way to kill Triv even with the option to roleblock him, nixes any chance of confirmed townies/mafias

[Zulfy]

We have two D1 wagons to look at (both on town).

This is where my vote will be going.

Such a useless and wifomy statement

[Zulfy]

Angry P, I ended the day believing Trivium's claim. I was initially worried he was just clumsy townie but his refusal to answer questions (which by the way, were Keyser Soze's questions and not mine, although Keyser later tried to frame them as mine for whatever reason) made me sure he was scum. After his claim though his reasons seemed credible enough, I guess.

[Zulfy]

Both Grayfox and Trivium's play Day 1 makes it impossible for me to get any reads out of any of their interactions. Oogh

[Zulfy]

Also, his reaction to Zulf in 153, looked genuine:

Feels like he's talking about me as if he's knows for sure I'm town

@Zulf Jar’s 153 gave me a genuine tone.

What does this

mean

, main act?

[Zulfy]

Also, his reaction to Zulf in 153, looked genuine:

Feels like he's talking about me as if he's knows for sure I'm town

@Zulf Jar’s 153 gave me a genuine tone.

What does this

mean

, main act?

Didn't I already address this?

Why even say it? Why bring it up? What sort of read is that on Jarjar? To me it seems like pointless filler.

[Zulfy]

Yeah, I don't know if I would have actually tried to lynch triv but I definitely wasn't liking his claim anymore after greyfox's flip. @ least don't have to worry about that.

What about Fox's flip made you doubt Triv's claim?

Pedit: But Perfy, it's such a

bland

statement, I guess I just don't understand your thought process. Whatever!

[Zulfy]

i don't remember

Good old Reagan defense.

UNVOTE: Makara

[Zulfy]

Garmr is reading town to me for the hard push on Triv.

I wouldn't be so quick to town-read Garmr: note, there was a thriving BlueMoonRising-AngryPidgeon wagon on D1 while the Trivium wagon was seemingly dead. Are you saying only town wanted Trivium dead?

I'm saying I can see Garmr having the same motivation as me for voting Triv. Also if I remember correctly you and Tool hinted at... you and Tool kept hinting at scum being on his wagon. Now that I think about it, eeeeehhhh it's a wifomy kinda thing, the whole pushing on Triv even though it's been hinted that will gain you suspicion thing.

So nevermind that.

We have two D1 wagons to look at (both on town).

This is where my vote will be going.

Such a useless and wifomy statement

Oh the irony.

Yeah? Help me out here. My point is that THAT'S the WHOLE GROUP BRO. That's basically everybody. Except for those who made sure to not be on either wagon, of course. Kevin Spacey comes to mind.


[quote="In post 725, "Kevin Spacey"]

I was initially worried he was just clumsy townie but his refusal to answer questions (

which by the way, were Keyser Soze's questions and not mine, although Keyser later tried to frame them as mine for whatever reason

) made me sure he was scum.

I wanted Trivium to answer your question about my questions ASAP, so that you would stop tunneling Trivium and focus on other players.
[/quote]
Yea okay.

I plan to participate a lot more that its D2.

VOTE: Gimlear

Yesterday he seemed to be following the popular wagons and trends in the town. He was on all the major wagons and didn't seem to have much independent intent.

Here are my brief reads:

town: tool, keyser, Aristo, jarjar, Zulfy

null: garmr, AP

scumlean: performer

scum: lapsa, gimlear

Yes, I can see why town-makara would make this vote. I want full reasons for these reads, please.

I can see a scum-makara making such a vote, if that interests you.

[Zulfy]

Where is everyone? It's almost as if you all have lives outside of MS!

wow lapsa obviously scum and people are town reading lapsa no wonder town win rates are dropping.

Loki please.
Btw who's townreading Lapsa?

[Zulfy]

Both Grayfox and Trivium's play Day 1 makes it impossible for me to get any reads out of any of their interactions. Oogh

GrayFoxxx I can understand, but Trivium interacted with quite a few people.

Yea I know, even then. Are you getting any reads on it? The wagon on him is something else, but the actual interactions with people are all null for me.

jar jar that's awful logic like the day 1 logic on keyser. If he was going to investigate me in the begging why did I ask him to when others have said he was less likely to investigate me becuase he feared i was god father :/ there was other factors as well but meh.

If he was going to investigate you in the beginning....
why did you ask him to?

So you never really expected him to investigate you?

Lean-Town:
Aristo
Zulfy (little less sure after revisiting Trivium push)

What did I do?

Scummy:
Lapsa (D2 posts not getting any better, starting to look like scummy noise)

Hell yea, Lapsa's not being very town-friendly.

i don't remember

Good old Reagan defense.
UNVOTE: Makara

Why did you decide to unvote here?

A sort of raising my smacking hand at Lapsa

Good old Reagan defense.
UNVOTE: Makara

This is the 2nd time you've done this now. Talk about one person, but then vote/unvote someone else (post 147) I'll flag this as 'peculiar'(?) - why did you unvote makara?

Is this scum-indicative, Verbal?

Alright well I could see voting one of Gimlear, Performer, or Lapsa right now.

do it

You taking your ball and going home?

[Zulfy]

The reason I decided to vote Triv was that his defense was very weak, which is why I wanted to put more pressure on him. I was trying to push Triv to make his own defense rather than letting others do it for him. Basically, I was hoping for something like I'm doing right now, but instead we got a post where he just rolled over and resigned himself to being lynched.

You just reminded me to be mad at Triv
Your defense is good enough for me, let's see if our paragons of Townity feel the same way.

VOTE: Lapsa

[Zulfy]

Alright well I could see

voting

one of Gimlear, Performer, or Lapsa right now.

do it

You taking your ball and going home?

Hmm I read that as "lynching" for some reason. It says "voting" and that changes things for me.
UNVOTE: Lapsa

[Zulfy]

There is that whole "I don't remember" thing tho.
VOTE: Lapsa

[Zulfy]

Gimlear can you do one of those nifty townread-to-scumread lists?

Also, Lapsa, why did you vote Garmr near the end of day 1 when that was an essentially worthless vote?
That late in the day it was either lynch Gray or no lynch.
And if you had a strong scum read on him then, why are you not voting him now?

1. your question proves its worthfulness

Ok, I understand your first answer.

Could you explain it to me?

[Zulfy]

Yeah? Help me out here. My point is that THAT'S the WHOLE GROUP BRO. That's basically everybody. Except for those who made sure to not be on either wagon, of course. Kevin Spacey comes to mind.

I think you misunderstood my 'intentions'. I set out my D2 plan. By looking at the activity around the wagons (both on and external) I would gauge reads of players - thus, finding out who I believe is scum. The way you flipped out slightly concerns me. Why should we not look at the D1 wagons? Have you come to the same or different conclusions as me based on your observations of D1?

Missed this. Not flipping out, just caps lock for emphasis. We should definitely look at the D1 wagons, because that's where nearly the entire player-base is at. However, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't ALSO look at the ones who didn't join either wagon. To rephrase that last sentence, we should also look at people who did not join that wagon, people like Keyser Planet. You saying what you said felt like an attempt to drive attention away from that part of the equation, and now here we are.

1) If you were scum, who would you have kept alive as lynch-bait for D2?

1) Impossible to say without knowing who the rest of my buddies are. This is an odd question. Do you think that Trivium was lynch bait going into Today? Because typically as scum you would think about who to kill; not who to leave alive.

Isn't that the whole point of lynch-bait? Keeping someone alive?

Preview Edit: I agree with JJD

[Zulfy]

What is your read on Garmr right now?

Wobbly. Especially after seeing Keyser's narrative and how doggedly Garmr stuck to the Triv wagon...it kind of undermines scum strategy, which is not to say that scum don't do that but I feel like Garmr as scum would be a player to support scum strategy rather than work against it. Just a hunch on his playstyle, really.

wifom tho

re: gimlear's defense to my points, none of it makes me back down from my read on him. If anything, Keyser's meta work might, but I want to look at it myself.

None of it? Why not?

I have my doubts about Lapsa but I'm suspicious of the wagon just because Lapsa seems like he would be such an easy mislynch for scum to score if he's town.

Something which Lapsa should be well aware of.

[Zulfy]

Missed Pedit: Isn't makara the lurkiest of lurks? I'm not saying you're contradicting yourself but you warn against voting for lurking and want to vote Nessie

[Zulfy]

re: gimlear's defense to my points, none of it makes me back down from my read on him.

None of it? Why not?

This, basically:

I don't see enough to outweigh my suspicions of the other explanation being true.

Then this isn't a very strong scum-read is it?

Missed Pedit: Isn't makara the lurkiest of lurks? I'm not saying you're contradicting yourself but you warn against voting for lurking and want to vote Nessie

It's a distinction of suspecting somebody

because

they're low-content versus suspecting somebody because they look scummy and happen to be a low-content player. For me, makara is the latter and it appears that for most of the people voting Lapsa, it's the former.

My vote on Lapsa is due to his basically trolling the town at this point. Not only is he not posting reasons for his reads (which I assume is for shitty meta-building reasons) but he lashes out when anyone tries to goad him into doing so. He's been a pretty frequent poster so I'm confused as to why you would think people think he's a lurker.

Reasons for makara:

-Scumlean on Triv and scumread on BMR in #231. Asks Triv why it would be a mistake to lynch him...part of me wonders if this is scum picking up on a possible PR hint and trying to out the role, and the other part wants to give him the benefit of the doubt that he was literally just asking Triv to defend himself, which a few other people also did.
-Hops on Triv wagon in #477, cites Triv's defense of himself.
-I could see this slot being scum just because there's a decent amount of posting but not a ton of depth to it and he follows two popular wagons at convenient times, including one that is now very probably town.

Bolstered with Keyser's narrative of the triv wagon. I didn't post the excel spreadsheet I used to create that graph, but basically mak did not do a whole lot with the triv wagon before hopping on it toward the end of the day.

Triv's defense was bad but it seems you read people as scummy for jumping on that. It was a bad defense and only readable as town (not even for sure town) in hindsight.

[Zulfy]

First Aris now JJD?

[Zulfy]

What are you on about? Can't just do that. Ya just CAN'T.

I'm suspicious of the wagon just because Lapsa seems like he would be such an easy mislynch for scum to score if he's town.

Agreed. Lapsa's playstyle is the easiest thing to attack. If I was scum I'd be all over it like this:

This is true. Does that make Lapsa town tho? How do you read Lapsa?

However, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't ALSO look at the ones who didn't join either wagon. To rephrase that last sentence, we should also look at people who did not join that wagon, people like Keyser Planet. You saying what you said felt like an attempt to drive attention away from that part of the equation, and now here we are.

''Drive attention away?" Nope.

Ohhhh nope? Nope? Nope.

Here is what I posted:

I think you misunderstood my 'intentions'. I set out my D2 plan.

By looking at the activity around the wagons (both on and external)

I would gauge reads of players - thus, finding out who I believe is scum.

Noooope that's not where we're at bro. That ain't it at allll. I'll show you ok? When I get out of this quote box you'll see.

The way you flipped out slightly concerns me. Why should we not look at the D1 wagons?

As you brought it up, I would still love to hear your thoughts:

Have you come to the same or different conclusions as me based on your observations of D1?

Which players movement/activity did you find scummy/suspicious

away

from the GrayFoxxxx/Trivium/BlueMoonRising wagons?

Did I find scummy? Past-tense? Yesterday-like? Yesterday I wasn't watching the wagon. I wanted Triv lynched so I welcomed every vote on the guy, I went to sleep after voting Fox. I feel like I'm missing the point of the question. My scumvibes came from Triv then Fox then Aris then Makara/Perf, in that order. Aww crap you got your font all over me.

Okay so

[Zulfy]

You quote 762, but I'm not on that. I click that. Where are we? You quoting me. You quoting my 745. I'm there now. I'm quoting from you 725 post 685 where I'm quoting you post 684. And THAT'S where we're at. Go ahead and click on all that.

There's no mention of the external activity around the wagon. Nothing like that. There's just you saying you're voting for a person who voted for either Triv or Fox. This suggests that scum voted or Fox. (Which is most definitely true) I'm talking about how I find it suspect that Keyser Soze would say that. Seems to me like Keyser Soze's trying to direct the discussion of scummyness into the wagon, only once I address it do you bring up the "By looking at the activity around the wagons (both on and external)" stuff. Enlarge the text all you want but you didn't say that the first time around.

[Zulfy]

This is what it is, just so we're clear. This is who we were.

We have two D1 wagons to look at (both on town).

This is where my vote will be going.

Such a useless and wifomy statement

[Zulfy]

Pedit: 1) You're driving away attention from Keyser Soze
2) Spoke in past tense cuz you're question was in past tense.

First Aris now JJD?

?

Oh nevermind. Just Aristophanes. Online but not posting yesterday at 2am (I'm currently unemployed)

None of it? Why not?

This, basically:

I don't see enough to outweigh my suspicions of the other explanation being true.

Then this isn't a very strong scum-read is it?

I don't see how you came to that conclusion.

Because it seems to me like Gimlear gave his defense of your points in post 766, yet you've yet to refute anything he's said? It's basically like saying "Ehhh I don't believe you" to me that seems like a weak read. Plus then you go and

Triv's defense was bad but it seems you read people as scummy for jumping on that. It was a bad defense and only readable as town (not even for sure town) in hindsight.

But it

wasn't

a bad defense. His defense, which he posted before people started trying to get him to post a defense iirc, explained to me pretty well why he was posting the way he was. It was a big part of my townread on him.

Let's agree to disagree on that defense, but why was it enough for you then and the cat's isn't now?

[Zulfy]

Your. YOURRRRR Ugh.

[Zulfy]

. This suggests that scum voted

Trivium

or Fox. (Which is most definitely true) I'm t

[Zulfy]

will be catching up later, had a family emergency that lasted from Friday until recently

Hope you're okay.

Quick scan-through of gim's .

Answer my question please.

Pedit: 1) You're driving away attention from Keyser Soze

Yes, erm, I usually don't talk about myself I let others analyse my posts/behaviour It's not my fault I'm being town-read for the pro-town decisions I made on D1

Blame toolenduso

. He was the one who led me down the path of righteousness.

Is there anyone else who you thought I was 'driving away attention' from? I feel like this accusation needs a resolution.

post 684
You were driving attention away from yourself.
You were trying to divert the discussion to a direction in which you were not a target
When confronted with this you tack on that you also want to look AROUND the wagon, and then tack on that softly thrown suspicion which I'm finding is a staple of yours.
Your day 1 play gives me semi-good vibes, but day 1 is over. I'm seeing a scummy strategy here.
VOTE: Keyser Soze, the hell are the umlauts on a keyboard?
Now I'm just wondering if Keyserscum/Lapsascum are still mutually exclusive.
I'd say probably.

[Zulfy]

Muh reads.
Pokemon?: Townlean, unless he don't answer my questions.
Loki: Townlean
SadEagle: Townlean (the hell is up with Lapsa's scumread? Rhetorical question obviously)
Ham Solo: Townlean
Catbag: Nullytownlean
Tacitus: True Neutral
Actor and Loch Ness: Null, lurklean
Lapsa: abcedminded and lame
Kevin: Soap scum

[Zulfy]

Lapsa what does your name mean?
@ Tacitus no.

[Zulfy]

Saying

Agreed. Lapsa's playstyle is the easiest thing to attack. If I was scum I'd be all over it like this:

sounds like either a strong townread or a scumslip.

That sentence raised my eyebrows quite a bit when I read it also.


Like compare it to tool who is basicly saying the same thing but it seems clear that he's not really sure what Lapsa is.

I have my doubts about Lapsa but I'm suspicious of the wagon just because Lapsa seems like he would be such an easy mislynch for scum to score if he's town.

Keyser is back to being susp for me.

Lapsa's style IS easy to attack. That's just a thing that is.
What IS interesting is the "if I was scum" part. Fits in with the type of scumgame I feel he's playing
I'll respond to Kevin's points later.
But that.
Pedit: Oh Keyser

[Zulfy]

Your day 1 play gives me a semi

You sick pervert

As I said in that post though, such things have deflated.

I'm seeing a scummy strategy here.

Yes, trying to not let my town-reads not get lynched is very scummy Please show me evidence where I drew attention away from my actions/from my posts? Please explain to me the scum-motivation in looking at D1?

Part o you strategy. Please see text above/below (still formatting all this)

VOTE: Keyser Soze, the hell are the umlauts on a keyboard?

Are you seriously voting for me like that?

Then this isn't a very strong scum-read is it?

Ya mocking me? Valid vote. Valid question on Tool. The reply of which I eagerly await. (Forreal tho how to umlaut?)

Now I'm just wondering if Keyserscum/Lapsascum are still mutually exclusive.
I'd say probably.

Again, more of your pre-flip associative analysis. If I flip town what does that make Lapsa? If I flip scum what does that make Lapsa?

Okay okay, this was tongue in cheek.

Here was my advice for you from D1, please take it onboard:

Advice boarded

[...]

Pokemon?: Townlean, unless he don't answer my questions.

Then this isn't a very strong town-read is it?

The Titanic hit an iceberg and sank once.

abcedminded and lame

Is being "abcedminded and lame" scum-indicative? I would love to hear more about this theory.

You will. I believe I've solved the Lapsian puzzle

Muh reads.
Pokemon?

Toolenduso

: Townlean, unless he don't answer my questions.
Loki

Garmr

: Townlean
SadEagle

You know

: Townlean (the hell is up with Lapsa's scumread? Rhetorical question obviously)
Ham Solo

You knowwww

: Townlean
Catbag

Gimlear

: Nullytownlean
Tacitus

Aristophanes

: True Neutral
Actor

Performer

and Loch

Makara

Ness: Null, lurklean
Lapsa

Jalal Talabani

: abcedminded and lame
Kevin

Spacey

: Soap scum

Advice: Please can you use the actual player names. It makes it easier to understand/read/analyse when reading now/later. Morover, please explain all your reads. I find this readlist very empty/unsatisfying.

There

Thank you.

[Zulfy]

Yes, erm, I usually don't talk about myself

Guess you do now, yea?
Anyway. Let's get to my point.
What is the strategy of the scumKeyser? The scumKeyser wants to appear as townie as can be, forever analytical and with a perfect reason for everything he does.
But scumKeyser needs a scumStrategy.
So scumKeyser will do this:

• A. Make sure to not join a faulty wagon (For as scum he'll know which wagons are faulty)
  B. Extensively analyze the faulty wagons that form from the sidelines
  4. Prey on the unfortunate chickens that fall off the cart

30 reasons to attack Lapsa's playstyle:

When I asked you to explain what you consider 'playstyle', I didn't mean rehashing his entire ISO in a text wall. Many of the things on your summary list are objectively scummy things and chalking them up to some blanket excuse. This whole defense makes no sense considering your read on Lapsa. If you aren't townreading him, then why are you aggressively chainsawing the wagon and implying that people suspecting lapsa are scummy without directly going after that line of thought? I hinted at this earlier and you've mostly just repeated yourself about it.

How'd that Halloween party go? Join my wagon.

Keyser,I saw a question about my Lapsa meta. They died N1 that game but I was told that more activity and less ambiguous posts come in D2. I am going to do a quick ISO to confirm this is happening here, though from the last post you made, I have a feeling the results will be underwhelming.

Towards the end of D1 I noticed his direct attack on Garmr's slot - was this emotional outburst (frustration) triggered after Trivium was forced to roleclaim?

Lapsa's voting behaviour has changed too for D2 - he is firmly set in his sole "scum" read of AngryPidgeon. He has also expressed his difficulty in placing a firm read on Garmr, yourself and Zulfy.

Lapsa, I'm lazy - can you post a link to any your completed scum games - I'm off to see Spectre soon.

If you aren't townreading him, then why are you aggressively chainsawing the wagon and implying that people suspecting lapsa are scummy without directly going after that line of thought?

Do I want to lynch Lapsa D2? No.
Do I town-read Lapsa? No.
Do I scum-read Lapsa? No.
Is Lapsa's playstyle scum-indicative? No.
Would I choose a NO LYNCH over a Lapsa lynch? No.

Simple terms:
If I scum-read someone I will analyse/

support

their wagon.

If I don't scum-read someone I will question/

oppose

their wagon.

This answers nothing.

[Zulfy]

I'm off to see Spectre soon.

Have fun

[Zulfy]

pidgeon still fence sitting

I find this readlist very empty/unsatisfying.

^ one is missing

Who?

jarjar and zulfy hitting keyser hurts town more than 'my style'.
continuing this push - zulfy will be scumread for that (free pass for jarjar

awooooo

).
looks like divide and conquer

What it is is doing my civic duty to bring a scumplayer down. If not for me he'll bring the circus tent down on us all

i want these people to work in unison:

There is scum in this squad you're setting up and you most definitely should know that

tool
keyser
jarjar
gimlear
performer
aristo

Thank you, Lapsa. UNVOTE: Lapsa

Gimlear what is this? No more lurking please.

The latest bit between Keywer and Zulf I have to reread. I don't get the vote on Keyser.
He's driving attention away from himself??
He's the most vocal and analytical player here. How do you figure this?

If you wish to refute any specific point that I made I'll gladly discuss it with you

I've had some things come up in my personal life and I'm unable to regularly post.

Take care

I am Keyser, townKeyser.

I'll retreat to the hills for now, but you will slip up and I will be back

[,,,]

Just to confirm, I made an attempt to 'clean-up' your read-list (post 830). All correct?

Toolenduso: Townlean

Yep

St Constantine the Hermit: Townlean

Never heard of him, Garmr's aggressiveness read town to me though

AngryPidgeon: Townlean

Yep

JarJarDrinks: Townlean

YEp

Gimlear: Nullytownlean

Not anymore, like damn look at that last post, but yea

Aristophanes: True Neutral

Ehhh yea

Performer: Null, lurklean

Yep

Makara: Null, lurklean

Yep

Lapsa: Scum

Nope. I put his signature as a read because that's the sort of player we're dealing with

Keyser Söze: Scum

Soapy scum, specifically

Mod please replace me out

Best wishes

[Zulfy]

See how much I care about ya Mak? Wrote you goodbye twice.

[Zulfy]

International emergency. Don't trust Keyser.

[Zulfy]

Oh I thought I was being replaced.

vla for two days

[Zulfy]

I have a scumread on national borders.

Will come back tonight

Pedit: Do you have some sort of .gif staffing agency, Soze?

[Zulfy]

Spoiler: Foxy did you respond to this?

pidgeon still fence sitting

I find this readlist very empty/unsatisfying.

^ one is missing

Who?

jarjar and zulfy hitting keyser hurts town more than 'my style'.
continuing this push - zulfy will be scumread for that (free pass for jarjar

awooooo

).
looks like divide and conquer

What it is is doing my civic duty to bring a scumplayer down. If not for me he'll bring the circus tent down on us all

i want these people to work in unison:

There is scum in this squad you're setting up and you most definitely should know that

tool
keyser
jarjar
gimlear
performer
aristo

@zulfy: I was making a point. I had no intention of lynching Lapsa. Also, I find your case on Keyser interesting but farfetched. I think it's much more likely that Keyser has a town motivation.

Understandable

FYI people, my vote for lapsa isn't simply because he has a "Scummy Playstyle". His scummy playstyle just conveniently allows him to cover up his scummy behavior.

Bingo-yahtzee

I think he was trying to appear to be against the triv wagon but he still wanted triv lynched. I see no good reason for him to move triv from town to null and then give him a weak-ass meta defense.

And that don't remind you of somebody?

[Zulfy]

-----
@Zulf Why do you think Ari is still null , when he pushed for someone to hammer Gray in that situation?? He didn’t suspend disbelief and let PRs play out overnight on n1, rather he pushed for someone to hammer Gray so rashly, so close to deadline. Experienced, concerned town players, who care about the win condition and the health of their PRs, should always consider all alternatives. Ari’s move on Gray wasn’t pro-town.

Aris responds to this later on the page. Do you still feel this way? He was stuck in a position between a NL and a possible PR-lynch. Can't really judge nobody based on that, and what about Garmr, the actual hammerer?

-----
@Constantine, what are your immediate thoughts? Are you town? Because I am scumreading you.

Uuuoooouuu, Aaaaeeaa, this post gives me shivers

@Jar I'm not sure what you mean in scum matching town with a scumbuddy. I would think they would scum-pair town with town, in order for those specific people to get mislynched down the road. Hence Gar trying to connect Lap and I without good reasoning

@Ari whoaaa whoa whoa. Me defending the dead makes you scumread me? Analyzing the deaths is important in doing detective work on people’s motivations.

@Zulf you're scumreading Keys because he was analyzing the wagon on Tri & Gray?...

As I told Aris, if you'd like to discuss any of the points I made in that post feel free to do so

Let's just make the 2 replacements try to defend their slots and we lynch whoever does the shittier job.

/only half joking

Intriguing for sure tho

@toolenduso. You have a girlfriend?!

For real pommie your gif game is on point

Because it seems to me like Gimlear gave his defense of your points in post 766, yet you've yet to refute anything he's said?

I mean I suppose I could engage him on the specifics of his points a little more but I just feel like it would head into WIFOM territory pretty quickly. His responses were such that you kind of have to trust that he's town in order for them to work.

It's basically like saying "Ehhh I don't believe you" to me that seems like a weak read

I mean if you were to compare it with scumreads I've had in other games it's not among the strongest I've had, but in the context of this game it was strong compared with other reads.

I've softened a little on it since.

Triv's defense was bad but it seems you read people as scummy for jumping on that. It was a bad defense and only readable as town (not even for sure town) in hindsight.

But it

wasn't

a bad defense. His defense, which he posted before people started trying to get him to post a defense iirc, explained to me pretty well why he was posting the way he was. It was a big part of my townread on him.

Let's agree to disagree on that defense, but why was it enough for you then and the cat's isn't now?

Are Gim's points similar to Triv's?

No, but why were Triv's more believable? Important question Tool.

[Zulfy]

International emergency. Don't trust Keyser.

What does this even mean?

I'll take a closer look at AP, but they still don't strike me as scum.

Would lynch Constantine or Performer preferably.
Will look back at Makara though.

Where is the VC at?

Yeah, I think I am going to vote Makara

seriously?

So much to catch up on.
Will be back later. Hungry.

[Zulfy]

Oh woops. Dismiss those quotes.

[Zulfy]

Yeah, I think I am going to vote Makara

seriously?

Lapsa is in the eye of the beholder

International emergency. Don't trust Keyser.

What does this even mean?

A thing, and then don't trust keyser

[

Waboodolooolol bullshit

]

This feels very fishy. Also not helping the scum read I already had on the slot.

This also gives me shivers. I hate meta but looks like I'll have to dive into yours

Since I'm on a bit of a meta streak I'll do a little work with Lapsa's meta too. Let's see what we can find.
[...]
Long and short of it -- Lapsa always posts like this and always vote hops. The one scum game I could find provides a minor reason to townread him IMO just because of the differences in posting style.

I'm eliminating him from my lynch pool today.

Coming out of the magenta for this one.

Lapsa's playstyle is designed to undermine meta

. It's not indicative of anything at all.

How'd that Halloween party go?

Good

So not so good?

Join the Keyser wagon? I am rethinking Keyser, need to finish getting caught up to figure out where I'm going to vote.

Nevermind all that. Maybe some other time.

pidgeon still fence sitting

About what? If you are referring to my not voting, then just say that

Well, uh, are you gonna explain that though?

I think makara is dead-weight scum, so I could definitely see a scum-bus there.

[/quote]

You cheeky bastard.

[Zulfy]

Time to go.

I have a scumread on national borders.

Will come back tonight

Did you get lost traversing those national borders?

Quite the opposite, unforunately

Share with us your "scumread(s)" no later than 48 hours to deadline.

What time is it? Suffice to say [for now] that makara's replacement is definitely scum. Perf and Gimlear are looking mighty shifty. That's the strongest my reads are at this time.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Skybird

[Zulfy]

missed it. i

l

o

v

e

your quote-changing style of posting.
but most of it is boring anyway

Well you reacted to the important one, so we're goodl.

There is scum in this squad you're setting up and you most definitely should know that

^ this one's ugly though

didn't try setting up anyone

I guess I misunderstood then. Looked to me like you were inviting people to the cool kid's table.

[Zulfy]

Holy shit I'm never trying that again.

[Zulfy]

Could we wait like one day before you decide whether you want to hammer? Because I'm starting to have some doubts that the mak/sky slot is scum and have a little more work left I want to do.

I am veeee

eeee

rrrr

yyyyy

interested in what you have to say. I'll gamble all my town-cred on skybird being mafia.

(Nowww it works. )

[Zulfy]

Why am I scum Zulfy? Because I'm scum reading you?

I hadn't even noticed.

I think makara is dead-weight scum, so I could definitely see a scum-bus there.

You cheeky bastard.

Well... do you agree then?

Entirely

Don't trust Keyser.

don't trust keyser

We have time, so let's do this: give me your strongest reasons why people should not trust

It seems that apart from Pidgeon and I everybody seems to do so. My initial reasons for suspecting you have yet to be refuted. Please remember that I wrote what I did because I thought I was about to be replaced.

me.

What time is it? Suffice to say [for now] that makara's replacement is definitely scum. Perf and Gimlear are looking mighty shifty. That's the strongest my reads are at this time.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Skybird

What's this?

You're scum-reading my scum-reads. Where do I fit in all this? You haven't gone all soft on me now have you?

Perf and Gimlear aren't scumreads, but I am shaken by what they've said, so we'll see how that turns out. I already told you I'm not going to pursue you today, but tomorrow? Or maybe even the next day? That's a different story.

I guess I misunderstood then. Looked to me like you were inviting people to the cool kid's table.

oh so polite. could you cut the crap, please?

I know this is an internet forum but I do my best to be polite
But is that not what you were doing?

why it's the important one?

You tell me. Only one you cared to answer after all.

were you suspecting me trying to magically blend in my scummate?

Still do

Keyser?

Well?

[Zulfy]

VOTE: makara

VOTE: makara

VOTE: BlueMoonRising

VOTE: makara

Spoiler: 1

town
Zulfy
Keyser Söze
Gimlear
Garmr

null
toolenduso
GrayFoxxxx
Aristophanes
BlueMoonRising
makara

scum
Trivium
JarJarDrinks
Performer

town

zulfy

keyser

tool

triv

makara

null

aristo

garmr

gimlear

scum

performer

jarjar

grayfox

blue moon

Will be back later today (hopefully hopefully)
Something important regarding our lynch

[Zulfy]

Also Zulfy's post here is even more incriminating now that we know makara is red:

Not what I was going for at all (Forgot about +Q button), but you make a point.



----
Bake her away, toys.

[Zulfy]

Coming for you Perf

[Zulfy]

Page 50 type shit

@Zulf ok?....based off of what? There are many things to discuss and this is your first post on d3??

My first post because you're my top scumread. I'm not

clowning

around if that's what you're suggesting.

Well that was kind of unexpected. Had Keyser like third for people I would have expected to die last night.

Kind of wish it would have been performer -- no offense, but if you're town like I'm thinking you are, it would have helped to have you dead so town couldn't get distracted and possibly mislynch you.

Echoing AP here. Why on earth would you suspect Perf would get night killed?

Anyway, here's what I did during the night. I went through the mod's VCs for D2 looking at how each slot interacted with the mak/sky and garmr/const wagons, then went through each ISO looking for mentions of mak. I did Keyser too but obv that's not very helpful any more.

Removed a couple thoughts on perf for reasons. But I suspect he's town.

Well uh please elaborate

mak votes: perf (RVS), BMR, Triv, Gim
sky votes: Const

JJD:

agreed

Zulfy:

agreed!

Perf:

-Perf led the charge on constantine D2. Puts sky at L-1 as of the #1098 VC.

Counterwagon?

-D1: Perf votes mak (RVS?) in his second post, #20.

Irrelevant, don't you think?

-D2: Perf comes out saying mak looks scummy at the beginning of D2, #696. Asks JJD to join Const wagon because mak couldn't claim (referencing my argument) in #973. Says he's still not comfortable with lynching the slot in #1038 after sky replaced in. There's also the whole asking sky about her predecessor fakeclaiming cop thing in #1036. Still not sure about this. It was obviously not too tough a test given the spoilered bit, but I guess why test your partner like this in the first place?

To earn town points? Seemed pretty weird no matter which way you look at it.

Idk...I could see this stuff meaning perf is a partner but I just don't feel confident in it. Seems like a place scum would want to push an associative case.

What does this mean? I'm having trouble understanding.

Gimlear:

I'm torn here. Waiting for the Gim

[Skip skip skip. I'll read all this later]

I'd like to hear thoughts from anybody else who did associative stuff during the night.

As I looked at associative stuff Keyser went from someone I couldn't trust to a pretty good townread. Only wish he was still alive so I could make amends.
Perf came out as the scummiest during my night-time reading. Will be back later to elaborate.

b. The only other conclusion I have is that Sky was setting Gim up for mislynch. She stated he's innocent, we suspect she's covering for him, and we mislynch him.

??? Busing is a thing yo.

I do think that's what sky was doing, trying to set up an associative with gimlear. Mak voting gim right out of the gate on D2 just seems a little weird for a partner.

Maybe if they had a designed bus idk...I just don't know why scum would feel like they had to bus coming into D2. They had two town PR kills in their pocket, why not just go for the sweep?

Excellent points. Points that Perf failed to make.

If we combine that with what Zulf mentioned about his 4-man list

Good God child you're still on that? Context Perf. Those were our lynch candidates as the D1 deadline approached.

[Zulfy]

I think scum is in Keyser, Skybird, Performer, Lapsa, Gimlear.

Pidgeon, I'm curious. Do you have any changes to this list?

Would you look at that. I don't know about Pidge but that's basically where I'm at.

[Zulfy]

And Aris, sorta.

[Zulfy]

Zulfy was shoving Keyser for most of the Day with the suspicion on Mak being somewhat lesser and definitely mor

[e]

pronounced after the wagon got started.

The fact that virtually everyone was okay with Makara getting lynched meant that he was most probably, quite likely, almost certainly dead-weight scum, as Keyser put it. I was still suspecting Keyser at that point, by the way. I only absolved him while nightreading last night.

Why do Zulfy's interactions with Makara make you hard townread him suddenly?

It's mainly that Zulf voted mak at the beginning of D2, so similar to the Gim associative read. I get bussing, but I don't get why scum would bus

in that context

.

Which sucks, because I really want a strong scumread on Gimlear and that isn't helping.

You list things from Performer that you admit appear scummy and then conclude that Performer is town for it?

It's that they look surface-level partnery. Much in the same way that I'm sure I look because I went for Constantine first. It looks like the kind of stuff that could get performer lynched, but there are things that point to perf not being a partner that I find more convincing. Namely, that perf went after mak at the beginning of D2.

I was going to say that Perf seems like bad-scum to me. But at this point I am torn. Will think this through thoroughly

VOTE: Zulfy

Woooo.

D2: mak’s updated 691 reads list about me , Lap, and Gim being scum – I can safely say I can townlean Lap & Gim because of that post from mak. [/color]

Nooo no no no no. You can't.
Sky mentioned she was gut-scumreading Zulf in 1073, so I can townlean Zulf for now.

Same logic you're using on your Gimlear read, so thanks but no.

[Zulfy]

Format edit:

D2: mak’s updated 691 reads list about me , Lap, and Gim being scum – I can safely say I can townlean Lap & Gim because of that post from mak.

Nooo no no no no. You can't.

Sky mentioned she was gut-scumreading Zulf in 1073, so I can townlean Zulf for now.

Same logic you're using on your Gimlear read, so thanks but no.

[Zulfy]

@Zulfy: Can you explain why you were so confident of mak/sky being scum toward the end of the day yesterday (before the cop claim)?

The fact that virtually everyone was okay with Makara getting lynched meant that he was most probably, quite likely, almost certainly dead-weight scum, as Keyser put it. I was still suspecting Keyser at that point, by the way. I only absolved him while nightreading last night.

Spoiler:

Grrrr

[...]

That townperf could be a target for scum to push a mislynch on today.

Who do you suspect of doing this?

I think it's dangerous to town read someone just because a confirmed scum put them on a scum read list.

Thank youuuuu

Forget about Perf, VOTE: Toolenduso

[Zulfy]

Title is wrong, deadline is wrong, and Constantine needs to be prodded.

VOTE: MarioManiac

[Zulfy]

Didn't see the title had been fixed
UNVOTE: MarioManiac

VOTE: Toolenduso

[Zulfy]

Lapsa IS Latvian. It all makes sense now.

Nobody, right now. I wrote that during the night and I was saying that I could see scum coming into D3 going "perf looks like a partner let's lynch him."

Whats the point of bringing it up then? You are kind of soft dissuading a Performer wagon in this way. You said you think he's town so that isn't entirely alarming, but this still seems like you are preemptively dissuading people from doing something which is going to get in the way of you finding scum. I.E., if you thought you are likely to find scum pushing Performer, wouldn't it make more sense to see if anyone does it and then consider if they are scummy for it? As is, you've kind of discarded something that you claim could have helped you catch scum.

Agree, agree agree. You're a

hypocrite

Spoiler:

What about his posts is bare? Perhaps it'll be more clear to me as I catchup, but

I am also curious

what your criteria for calling a post bare is. @Performer: Moon lurked and flaked, and quoting his ISO is a very grandiose way of making that point.

I'm curious about your thoughts outside this realm

, but will catch up before asking you anything that you've potentially already made clear.

Because?

Are you just agreeing with the other points already made

or is there something else? I see you linked another game of his and asserted it was different,

similarly with no explanation

.

I'm having a hard time seeing where your focus is this game. Or better said, WHY your focus is what it is this game. Spare me any case that uses activity at all as an argument, tia.

330

gives me a bit of the "testing the waters" vibe for a vote.

Not scummy on its own, I've seen town do similarly but

it follows several people already expressing discontent with Aris but not outright pushing it

.

Can you organize your reads? Cause you just did this regarding Aris and it felt much like this post.

Arguing points that are fairly superficial or already hashed out by other posters previously. Mmmmmk, perhaps I disagree with your assessment that posts are bare when you are holding a mostly subjective opinion about the posts but describing them in a way that comes off objective.

The rest of this looks like you simultaneously want to pander to me but also be able to vote me if needed.

Really? What about it did you like?

Most of performer's recent content felt fairly uninspired and go-with-the-flow for lack of a better term.

Performer:

Stances have been expressed by other people for the most part.

The case on BMR and Aristophanes rang bells and especially the Aris one looked like an attempt to open up a wagon there without sticking his neck out. Still not totally sold on that, so null scum

.

Are you being serious?

Because Ari posted about it.

This question feels like a really hedgy way of saying that Ari is scummy for lynching a PR.

Re 710 Trivium wagon analysis by Keyser:

I think performer and Zulfy come of looking the most dubious in that progression you laid out

.

Town:
Tool
Keyser
JarJar

Lean-Town:
Aristo
Zulfy (little less sure after revisiting Trivium push)

Null:
Garmr (Backed off after the claim, pretty hard turnaround after pushing it; town points for unvoting the L1 when he did)
Makara

Scummy:

Lapsa (D2 posts not getting any better, starting to look like scummy noise)
Gimlear (Keyser summary of the Triv wagon makes good points on Gimlear)

Performer

What was your impression before the ISO? Just

curious what your internal progression on this slot has been

. I think you and Lapsa are both saying that its scummy of him, but neither of you seems to realize this :S.

Alright well I could see voting one of Gimlear, Performer, or Lapsa right now

. I think Lapsa is my favorite pick for scum if I'm going with my gut.

Gimlear and Performer look bad on the Trivium wagon.

Gimlear was a bit more on the sidelines D1 although

Performer has some logical gaps that look bad.

I'm not really seeing the motivation to bus right there considering there are other viable wagons and the pressure hadn't really crystalized by that point. I could be misremembering the context of the vote, but I dont think I am.

If Gimlear is town then I'd be suspicious of Makara's vote; ESPECIALLY if Lapsa/Performer has scum in it.

Number of times AngryPidgeon has voted for Performer or pushed Performer's wagon:

Spoiler:

ZERO

but I agree.

if you thought you are likely to find scum pushing Performer, wouldn't it make more sense to see if anyone does it and then consider if they are scummy for it?

Honestly I didn't really consider that. I write a lot of this stuff half as notes to myself/catalogues of thoughts that support larger conclusions and half to show people my thought process. Same reason I make notes of things that end up being "eh it's not really alignment indicative." I suppose it's not the most helpful thing in the world but it's part of my process.

Fair enough.

[Zulfy]

I don't have like an investigation result on him if that's what you're thinking.

Sooo you're saying there's another investigative role out there?

[Zulfy]

I still haven't done my Perf case. Constantine needs to be prodded/replaced (modkilled?)

[Zulfy]

Spoiler: Inside the mind of Lapsa, annotated by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

In any case VOTE: Garmr for being so quiet.

+ points for garmr

TODO: check how Zulfy changes his reads on garmr during game

I like JarJar's point in 42 about Keyser trying to appear town with that question.

...

I'm just going to leave this here.

Also this.

So what?
He said he asks every game, and that's fine. I believed him.
His reaction to people's reactions to it is what I don't like right now.
Why did you go out of your way to find these, Tool?

Which one is it? You either believe him and it's null, or you believe JarJar and he's trying to appear town.

Also, why the need to signal everyone that RVS has ended?
We can figure that out, we're not imbeciles. That part of the post also reads as "look at me, I got us out of RVS! I'm so town!"

Stretching it. Trying to manipulate my emotions? Nah.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Trivium

no paranoia between Zulfy <-> Aristo

This was my assault on him. I'm specifically attacking him here. That doesn't translate to no paranoia brālis

Soze the main point of that post is that you and Lapsa can't both be scum, but I suspect neither of you are so it's not a very useful observation.

^ zulfy style chain thing

What do you mean by chain thing?

Don't like how Trivium says Keysor is on his watch list for the question w/o an actual vote. Then later votes for the same reasoning. Why wasn't that reasoning good enough to vote in the first place? Not crazy about the wagon though cause I think a triv-keysor scumteam is unlikely and Keysey is still my top scumread.

Garmr giving keyser a town read worries me. I can understand if he doesn't agree w/ me about the daychat question being scummy. Especially w/ that link to the other game. But what has keyser done to warrant a townread? @ best he should read it as null.

I dislike this post from Zulf:

Vote: JarJar

For not baking down from an obviously bad position.

but Lapsa is also scummy.

I agree with your observation, but not your conclusion.

If it was so obvious JarJar wouldn't be pursuing that.

Keyer Soze, you haven't answered my question.

Feels like he's talking about me as if he's knows for sure I'm town

Though blueMoon targetting me does seems wierd since my position was pretty similiar to others in the thread. He says it's cause I kept pressing the issue but I don't really feel that's true. Most of it is me responding to Keyser asking direct questions


townreading Aristophanes - He seems to agree w/ me about Keyser and laid out some additional good reasoning.

townreading toola even though I'm disagreeing w/ his reads. His posts look like legit scumhunting.

upon rereading - disliked post mentioned by jjd too

TODO: formulate how so and wtf was that all about. conclusions...

Zulf could you explain your Trivium vote? You made it after responding to a bunch of Aris' points.

+ points for team

Cognitive bias

Toolenduso I'm voting Trivium because

I can't see any other motive Keyser could of had for asking whether maf. have day talk other than to appear townie. Townie doesn't need to appear townie. Therefore-

VOTE: Keyser

Really? Can't see

any

other motive? And he calls out Lapsa for a RVS vote (granted, Lapsa hasn't really talked about any of his votes) although that might just be him overlooking that it was an RVS vote, but it still raised my eyebrow. This could be just inexperienced playing, it's actually looking a lot like that to me now that I'm reviewing it, but this next thing:

Hey tooleanduso, why don't you explain your buddying with Keyser?

At this point I think the evidence points to Keyser being town

I am voting a Keyser-Tool scum team.

[Disturbing gif]

How can you hold all three positions within 3 posts of eachother?

Makes him look more like a scum who's messing up.

So what do you think of Trivium's #98 and #99?

Either brutal townie honesty or nebulous scum manipulation. Also I forgot to mention this, but the wagon on him is a good opportunity to put some big pressure on somebody for the first time in this game.

town points to zulfy

Weeee

?

TODO: was zulfy first to indirectly call triv inexperienced?

reminds makara naming triv as alt

You've given out 4 town-reads so far

I wouldn't call Lapsa a townread just yet. What I was saying with the quote was that his playstyle gets mistaken for scumminess and so people should keep that in mind with reading him.

I have a gut townlean on Lapsa but I honestly can't articulate why.

Blah!

Are you usually more confident with your town-reads than your scum-reads?

Interesting question, I never really considered that. I tend to second guess myself on both town and scumreads I think. If you want to look at my meta I suppose that's one thing you could look for and see if there are any differences between my town and scum games. If it is alignment-indicative for me, all the better -- you'll know I'm town.

In this game, I feel better about my townreads than my scumreads right now. Though I feel like I need to revisit JJD.

Who are your scum-reads so far?

I have a couple weak scumreads right now: Aris, Zulf and Gray. Aris for the hop onto Keyser and the other two for their hops onto Trivium. Not super confident on any of them.

TODO: try to pinpoint when exactly tool stops scumreading zulf and aris

I think I am going to get lynched. Here is a reads list for after I get lynched-
Keyser- In my book, tomorrow if Keyser is not dead and I am, you should kill him. And if he is scum, kill tool next. Yes, I still think they are a scum team. Honestly though, I admit some of his questions seem legitimate and solid. Than again, some seem like he is going for specific answers to incriminate them.
Tool- Tool gives some good points on who he thinks is scum, but doesn't seem to be moving the game along very much. He doesn't seem to have opinions on who is mafia as much as who is not.
Lapsa- Lapsa doesn't seem to be helping the town very much either. I get that he has a different play style, but does that prevent him from doing ANY scumhunting or having ANY visible opinions on the game whatsoever? Still, I feel like there may be more than meets the eye, so I have a town lean on him.
Gimlear- Gimlear has 5 posts. I think his recent post seems odd and bandwagonily opportunistic so I want him to give at least one reason no-one else has said already for bandwagoning me. I have a scumlean on him for obvious lurking.
Zulfy- I think Zulfy seems genuine enough with his opinions, seems overall townie to me.
Performer- I honestly don't know how to read performer.
JarJar- Good, solid back of reason and questioning. Fairly solid town read.
Alright, who is going to intent to hammer?

keyser, tool == scum && zulfy == town
^ jjd town read fucks it up
nothing on Aristo

Aristophanes you just gonna ignore my assault on you?

Nvm, but I expect an answer when you come back.

TODO: i rly can't remember there has been an assault

The contradiction thing, all he ever did with it was brush it off

JarJar’s Post 125 gives me bad bad vibes.

care to expound?

Justifying voting Keyser only because its a popular wagon.

You need to reread that post dude.

I'm seeing the same thing he's seeing. Please clarify it.

defending makara

Well I mean, I was seeing the same thing he was seeing, can't help that

TODO: check how's jjd #125 'justifying voting keyser only because its a popular wagon'. can't remember such thing

@BlueMoonRising, how come your vote is on Jarjar?

reads incoming

hmm. makara just said #125 gives bad vibes yet have problems with bmr

+ points for pidgeon

VOTE: makara

Just saw Tri's recent post, and that's striking me as frustrated town .

UNVOTE: Trivium

How about the fact that he's yet to even

acknowledge

the points made against him? Don't that strike you as just a tiny bit scummy?

Trivium

this one's strange

i remember Zulfy saying that he unvoted triv because he looked inexperienced
TODO: check that

yet here it seems that he still calls out heavy suspicion on triv despite that he promised to give way out and have already acknowledged that triv looks inexperienced

Because he wasn't answering questions. Because he had given up during the day despite all the time we had. Seemed to me like a scum who knew he had been caught and didn't care anymore.

Congrats Fox have fun with that

Soze, why does my pre-associative flip unnerve you? Why not mention it earlier?

Trivium should be lynched today, i don't understand why we're just letting him slide. His lack of cooperation is killing any sort of leniency I might have had for him before, he hasn't done much other than talk about all the things he's going to do.

still having problems with triv

TODO: check if Zulfy explicitly drops his scumread on triv later on and how plausible it seems

I did a little "... I believe you" near the end of the day.

Makara how you feeling about Aristophanes?
Garmr did you explain 143?
Performer, what's so genuine about JarJar's 153?

Pedit: Tool, I at least want BlueMoon to get the same amount of leniency that Trivium had during his wagon, I don't think he's had a chance to respond. I don't mind a lynch on him, but I'd much much much prefer a lynch on Trivium. I won't vote for him until I feel he's had a chance to respond. I don't get the scumreads on him, to me he seems null. So no vote from me until then.

shit's getting interesting

heavily diluted though. on purpose?

TODO: check if zulfy continues chasing makara about read on aristo

Makara you've yet to answer me.

zulfy does

and makara replies

Makara how you feeling about Aristophanes?

He's still a null read to me. I don't like his style of posting a big long catchup, posting a bit of fluff and then another big long catch up although I can be guilty of this sometimes. Ideally I would like steady contribution, but I know firsthand that sometimes that isn't possible. I think the content of his posts is good though and seems to spark discussion and have good insight. I will probably be able to get a much better read on him d2. I am also eagerly awaitng part two !

makara null-reading aristo

dislikes posting style, praises content

gives free pass till day2

TODO: part two? did i miss aristo promising part two of what? what is part two?

His big catch-up posts.

TODO: check how he read aristo before this

Thinking things over, I DO mind a lynch on bluemoon, he hasn't even been lurking, inactive is the better word.

Tool what makes Blue look scummy to you?

last quote is shit

tool wrote his interpretation on my timestamps, zulfy directs that as an attack on blue?

Hahaha no no. I'm talking about the post just above the timestamp thiing.

meh blue moon monkey man could be scum but it's pretty murky would perfer to lynch someone who is active and scummy. Aka trivium,lapsa or performer.

Lapsa/Performer? On what grounds?

I have gotten icky vibes from BlueMoon when skimming the first time, so I will post my

Intent to hammer

but not for a couple of days.

No way should you be posting your intent to hammer - you still need to catch up with the thread and post your re-reads of everyone.

VOTE: Aristophanes

Are you voting for him based on this alone?

ugly chaining

as if defence on lapsa/performer (especially on me since i've been given free towncred for nothing - because meta) strengthens defence of aristo

zulfy did some tricky chaining shit before

Chaining, chaining, what does that mean? My question to Keyser "are you voting for him based on this alone?" was about Aris posting his intent to hammer, nothing about defending you or performer

TODO: check what exactly

something about keyser scum mutex lapsa scum

Aris

- townread. Sure he only has like 2 posts w/ any real content but I like em.

He seems to have very similar thoughts to me.

Keyser

- I think I'm townleaning now. The daytalk question was proved to be non-alignment indicative though I didn't like how he initially responded to the pressure. But he hasn't really done anything else since then that reads scummy to me despite being superactive.

Gimlear

- mostly null maybe a slight townlean

due to him having similar reads to me

and asking some decent questions. Would like him to post more.

Zulfy

- null. I got some scum pings from him early game cause

I felt like he was buddying me

but other than that I like his posts.

Performer

- I definitely don't have a problem w/ people scumreading him cause he does come across pretty scummy. I'm just hesitant cause like I said, I lead a mislynch on him in the one game we played together so it's definitely possible for him to be scummy as town. null for now

makara

- was gonna say null but after a reread I think I'm slightly scumleaning. Most of his posts are pretty contentless. The only thing he's really given us was his one readlist. Would like to see more from him as well.

Garmr

- scumleaning. I feel like alot of his reasoning is empty. Giving keyser that early townread cause of the "way he handled his wagon" really didnt sit well w/ me. I thought keyser handled his wagon pretty poorly. And his "I think scum pushed tri up to l-1 on purpose" argument seems contrived as well. Plus he was damn defensive when I called him out about it.

1) When did I buddy you?
2) Did the other ones not buddy you? (I'm assuming here, that

they

agreed with

you

and not the other way around)

Why did Keyser handle his wagon poorly?

damn pink shit. hurts my eyes

Changed the color just for you

highlighted 3 stuff, only 2 bullet points - go guess

The first two things highlighted were JJD saying people were town for agreeing with him, the last one was him saying I was scum for buddying him. There you go.

I get a feeling that right now scum are backing off of pigeon because its a harder wagon now that the slot is actually posting...

you are bad at this game, triv

Because his scum

Trivium is bad at the game because he is scum. <------ You

In the game Mafia, bad play is indicative of scummyness?
or
A player such as Trivium is bad at the game Mafia when playing as a scum?

me or garmr?

Garmr

who's you. irrelevant

'bad play is indicative of scumminess' looks shit.
i townread triv for playing badly

You know, you really should have said that at the time then.

'A player such as Trivium is bad at the game Mafia when playing as a scum?'
second choice looks shit. once again triv ends up being scum

That's what GARMR is saying. I'm asking him to clarify. Garmr is saying that Triv is scum. This is what Garmr is saying, what sort of scum? What sort of scum? That's what I'm asking Garmr.

[Zulfy]

I see Aristo is scumreading Zulfy off of Makara posts which kind of makes sense to me. I had kind of narrowed in on Aristo using similar logic but obviously Aristo isn't going to scumread himself.

Angry, your reads, please

Zulfy, What did you think of the lapsa wall that you responded to? your in-line comments were a bit hard to piece together into a bigger picture.

Sloppy stuff, there were some things in there that were due entirely to Lapsa not paying attention. The other attacks I easily dismissed

Both Lapsa and Constantine have a nullifying playstyle. One of them has to go before we get to MyLo
Tool is scum, Perf I'm no longer so confident on.


The lynch today will be either Aristoiphanes, Lapsa or Constant. I don't think scum will let me die and nobody seems to care that Tool is scum.
Another thing that everyone seems to have forgotten is that Keyser was scumreading Birdman,

[Zulfy]

Scum Leans

Trivium - I didn't particularly find his push on Keyser too scummy but it was his response that really irked me - he essentially rolled over, just claimed that he was town and resigned to death without giving any substantive defense. @Trivium, I'd like to hear you explain why it would be a mistake for us to lynch you.
JarJarDrinks - I hate 125 and I hate his response to my questioning of it. There's not much else I've found notable from him but overall I want an explanation other than "reread it". PEDIT: he has kinda responded to this already but his response doesn't get at my question - how does the fact that a position is popular somehow not make it bad?
Gimlear - Originally had him listed as null but after reading through ISO again I'm starting to get suspicious. He places an RVS vote, asks Keyser two questions and then disappears. When he gets back in 155 it felt like he was going along with the popular opinion in the town. Since then there hasn't been much of note to me.
Performer - Really not much real content either. I tend to scumread people who jump on popular wagons without really showing much independent though themselves, and Performer has done just this.

scumlean: performer

scum: lapsa, gimlear

I am certain there is one scum in scum's scumreads. Scumpoints for Perf, Gimlear and Lapsa.
Gimlear seems to be acting town, hate his low word count though.

[Zulfy]

Spoiler: toolenduso Q+

Note: The mod has edited this Q+ into a spoiler upon Zulfy's request.

Keyser is on my watch list for that oddness with the question on mafia daychat.

I read this as: if Keyser's wagon picks up I'll be sure to add my vote

Yeah I thought the same thing.

JJD-Keyser is striking me as town v town.

I'm just going to leave this here.

Also this.

So what?
He said he asks every game, and that's fine. I believed him.
His reaction to people's reactions to it is what I don't like right now.

Not really seein' it. Looks more to me like an attempt to get out of RVS/get early info in the game. People went after him for it and he defended himself. Perhaps made some logical missteps along the way, but town does that plenty.

What I was watching for was the way that people responded to the easy bait.

Why did you go out of your way to find these, Tool?

People were scumreading him for it, and it was an easy thing to fact check.

Alrighty then. Hey tooleanduso, why don't you explain your buddying with Keyser? I mean, if either of you turn up being scum, we already know who the partner was. Well, maybe not. Would scum make it that easy? Still, your focus on protecting Keyser is pretty obvous. Why don't you help scumhunt?

Call it buddying if you want. What I see is a person trying to get town out of RVS, and people jumping on something that is very easy to paint as looking scummy. I'm not trying to protect him, I'm looking at the people who are attacking him because I think that's the best place to look for scum right now. I think scum would want to take a bite of that juicy apple.

Up until your last several posts I thought you looked really bad for it. But then your posting took a turn toward what looks like an alternate motivation, one that seems more town.

Kind of liking my vote on Aris tho.

WAIT A MINUTE. If Tool has done so much research on Keyser, why wouldn't he say there was no game where Keyser was mafia?

...why would I?

I haven't done "so much research" on him, by the way. I opened his list of topics he's posted in, looked at completed games, clicked on his ISO and ctrl + F'ed "day chat".

Keyser do you seriously not even understand the argument against you?

I mean, I don't agree with it but the argument is pretty simple. They're positing that you asked the question in order to look town. Because only town would ask the question.

Uh I think Trivium is probably town. The way he so eagerly switched over to me like he had caught me in a slip reads very much like a new(ish) town player thinking they've found something big. It feels genuine.

You've given out 4 town-reads so far

I wouldn't call Lapsa a townread just yet. What I was saying with the quote was that his playstyle gets mistaken for scumminess and so people should keep that in mind with reading him.

I have a gut townlean on Lapsa but I honestly can't articulate why.

Are you usually more confident with your town-reads than your scum-reads?

Interesting question, I never really considered that. I tend to second guess myself on both town and scumreads I think. If you want to look at my meta I suppose that's one thing you could look for and see if there are any differences between my town and scum games. If it is alignment-indicative for me, all the better -- you'll know I'm town.

In this game, I feel better about my townreads than my scumreads right now. Though I feel like I need to revisit JJD.

Who are your scum-reads so far?

I have a couple weak scumreads right now: Aris, Zulf and Gray. Aris for the hop onto Keyser and the other two for their hops onto Trivium. Not super confident on any of them.

--Town--
Trivium

--Null-town--
Keyser
JJD
Garmr

--Null--
Gimlear
Lapsa
makara

--Null-scum--
Grayfox
Zulfy
Aris

--Scum--
Performer
BMR

Spoiler: ISO reads

Aristophanes:

-The main thing that made me start actually thinking Aris might be scum was that some of the points about Keyser in #100 seemed like they were reaching. Like saying that signaling to town that we're out of RVS was a play to look like town. Doesn't make sense to me. And saying that Keyser not understanding that Lapsa was quoting the wiki was "disingenuous." It seems much more likely to me, regardless of alignment, that Keyser just didn't know what Lapsa was posting. And there's not really a scum motivation for it, but Aris treats it as such. The reasoning just strikes me as the kind of thing scum would do when they know they're going after a wagon where the reasoning is already established but they don't want to look like they're just sheeping. So they heap on anything else they can find.
-Nothing else has really stood out to me as being alignment indicative.

BlueMoonRising:

-Not a whole lot yet, but for some reason I get a gut townvibe from his posts so far. Just the vote on Lapsa, the curtness, the (probable) wait-and-see approach...all things I feel like I see from town in early game. Not terribly strong, I'd call it a weak townlean and want to come back later. This is the kind of slot where other factors are better for reading the slot (not going to expand on that right now because if this slot is scum I don't want to give any ideas on what I'm looking for).
-EDIT AFTER INITIAL ENTRY: And then he goes and posts #210, in which he is directing play. There are a lot of scummy possibilities for this post, including coaching buddies, preemptively distancing himself from a mislynch and subtly trying to project an image of ignorance. The last sentence in particular bugs me because it seems like an afterthought; "Oh by the way I don't

really

know whether he's town."

Garmr:

-I get a minor townvibe from #70 given the way Garmr describes his RVS-stage attitude in #124. It just seems like Garmr trying to get things moving a little bit but he doesn't have a lot to go on. At the same time it's a very shallow push. Which basically means that Garmr isn't trying that hard to get things moving, and that can be antithetical to some scum's early-game mentality: to try to appear super towny.
-That being said, I was totally fooled by scumGarmr the last time I played with him so I don't know if I'll ever feel very comfortable townreading him this game.
-The push on Trivium (who is my top townread atm) gives me bad feelings, but at the same time it is literally impossible that the entire wagon is driven by scum so there must be some town out there who are on the wagon and just are not seeing what I'm seeing. I kind of knew that would happen because the post that made me townread triv the most is one that appears town to me because I know that I'm town.
-So basically my read on Garmr is somewhere between null and null-town, with a general wariness attached.

Gimlear:

-The questioning of Keyser (which may have actually sparked the early wagon on him), denouncing of the push on Keyser and subsequent L-1'ing of Trivium could come from either alignment. But if it does come from scum, it means Gimlear is a competent and thoughtful scum player. Which is just something I want to take note of for future assessment of the slot.
-That being said, the arc and posting style does feel genuine to me. So not interested in chasing Gimlear right now.

Grayfoxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

-Slight scumlean mostly just for #138. Looks like scum hesitation to appear too scummy while still wanting to hop on a juicy wagon. Other than that not much to go on. This early in the game I don't buy into lurking arguments too much.

JJD:

-JJD was the first, I believe, to jump on the Keyser thing. So while I do think it was low-hanging fruit for scum, I think you kind of have to give the benefit of the doubt to the first person to jump on the first wagon. That's just getting town out of RVS, which is something any alignment would do.
-The pushing on Keyser kinda strikes me as coming from town. Just seems like a natural path for town to go: sees something easy to talk about -> votes to get town out of RVS -> continues questioning player -> responses don't make much sense, and you're already voting them, so you continue to argue.
-Begins assessing how other players have interacted with the wagon in #153, which supports the get-town-out-of-RVS theory for his push on Keyser.
-Yeah I just see a lot of questioning and trying to move the game forward. Reads like town. Not that scum can't fake it, but this early in the game it feels towny to me.

Keyser:

-Don't buy the early-game arguments against Keyser about trying to look town. Yes, it's possible that's what he's doing. But I see no reason to believe that over the very plausible town explanation of "but he literally just wanted to know though."
-His responses to the pressure are a little illogical, but I still don't see a reason to read them as scummy. They actually ring towny to me because they come across like he's sure of himself and not trying to project an image, if that makes any sense...like here's an example. In #43 he responds to JJD by sarcastically saying "yes, scum have strong motivation to publicly look scummy." Like, the statement itself doesn't really make sense, and I feel like a more scummy approach would be to turn it around and start pushing a case on JJD or something along those lines.
-Generally he just comes across as a person who feels like it's obvious he's town, and the way I read that is that he thinks he should be obvtown because he knows that he's town.
-His switch to Performer in #196 amid continuing near-lynch status on the Trivium wagon also smacks of town to me. He didn't even back away from wanting to lynch Trivium, only suggested that we don't have to do it right now, so really as scum I think it would have been a better idea to keep pressure on Trivium without drawing attention elsewhere.


Lapsa:

-There are really only two things in Lapsa's ISO that I see to look at: his vote/unvote on Trivium and his vote on makara. The vote on Trivium put Triv at L-2, and then he unvoted after Gray put Triv at L-1 (and also after I suggested that we shouldn't lynch Triv). I can see scum motivation behind it, but the town explanation seems a bit more plausible to me (that Lapsa wanted to let more happen in D1/didn't feel that strongly about Triv being scum.) It also kind of seems antithetical to a scum mindset just because why would he want to work against a mislynch? (this is assuming the point of view of scumLapsa/townTriv)
-The makara vote supports the explanation of Lapsa wanting more things to happen in D1 as well. Makara has probably posted the least out of all the players just because of the V/LA, and while Lapsa's vote didn't come with an explanation, I read it with an implication that Lapsa is trying to get makara to do more.
-Not sure what to make of Lapsa voting for BMR and makara in the same post. Maybe that's like a weird form of FoS?

makara:

-Don't see a whole lot to go on here. The catch-up post is the most substantive thing and that could really go either way.

Performer:

-Early-game enthusiasm could just be the excitement of a player who hasn't played much or a scum player hoping to come across as friendly/towny/fun. Not really sure which direction to go.
-Parts of #73 strike me as being pretty shallow, like the chiming in on the Keyser stuff. Which pings as scummy. He does say a couple ISO posts later that he doesn't want to lynch Keyser, but that's after I start arguing for Keyser being town.
-Jumps on the Triv wagon later (Perf says it's L-1 but for some reason I feel like he was mistaken), which is sketchy but not more sketchy than some of the other people on the wagon IMO.
-So yeah a scumlean here.

Trivium:

-I did think #59 was scummy. But it was surface-level scummy. It was the kind of thing that's really easy to call scummy. But he goes back and explains his push on Keyser in #98 and it seems legit to me. So he's a new-ish player and gets a little overeager to find scum. Makes sense. The fact that he comes right out and admits it, as Zulfy put it when I asked him about these posts, means he's either cleverly manipulative scum or very honest town. Taking into account Triv's experience and posting style, it makes more sense to me that he would be very honest town.
-There's also his turnaround where he votes me amid orange-colored, all-caps excitement in #110/111. This looks -- again -- like excited town who think they've found a genuine scumslip (or something, I was never too clear on what his reasoning was). This doesn't seem like the kind of thing a new scum player would think to do.

Zulfy:

-Not really sure what to make of the early-game pre-flip association stuff. I guess I could see him using it as town as just a thought organizer, but then scum can use those techniques as a means to force their reads into a more genuine-looking perspective. So. Null I guess.
-His positioning on the Trivium wagon is prime scum real estate. The positioning is honestly the thing that made me raise an eyebrow when he made the vote. His reasoning, which goes above some other peoples' reasons for voting Triv, are actually not all that bad.
-Not a big fan of #191. It's like he's giving himself an out in case he wants to bail from the Trivium wagon.

VOTE: BlueMoonRising

I think this is a good place to be right now.

Forgot to respond to this:

Tool, why are you defending people so much?

Earlier in the game I did feel more confident in my townreads than my scumreads, but I have also had my vote on people for serious reasons and been developing scumreads.

Also I didn't want you or Keyser to get lynched so I was trying to get people not to do that.

One or two of the votes on the wagon make me a little leery

Thought I'd expand on this. The main vote making me suspicious is Performer's. Which is because perf was already a scum suspect of mine and a member of the Triv wagon. His vote on BMR...

Blue’s ISO gives me a sour taste in the mouth.

VOTE: Blue

...has more or less gone unexplained.

Gimlear's vote also makes me a little nervous bc he was on the Triv wagon, but less than Perf's vote.

I still like a BMR lynch because I think BMR looks scummy and I know I could always be wrong about Perf (or that he could be a bussing buddy).

@Zulf: I'm pretty confident that a Trivium lynch is not happening today, and while I wouldn't mind an Aris lynch that one doesn't have a whole lot of steam right now. How do you feel about compromise lynches on D1?

@tool your 343 - the tone of that post sounded strange

K.

As for your 377 question – my vote on Blue was straightforward enough. What exactly weren't you getting there?

All you said was that his ISO "left a sour taste in your mouth," no elaboration. What about his ISO?

Need thoughts on what is going on TODAY people. Let's get to it. Tool's ISO is a bit overwhelming so I will have to eat it in tiny chunks.

[Zulfy]

Always forgot about that damn +Q button. Mod? Could you get rid of that?

[Zulfy]

Tool is scum.

Bush: "C'mon guys, you just KNOW they have nukes."

Chemical weapons

Tool's ISO is a bit overwhelming so I will have to eat it in tiny chunks.

Wait so do you actually have a reason for scumreading me or did you just get a vague feeling and now you're going to go look for support for it?

A bit of both. I have concrete reasons for it, but need some supplementary stuff to really drive the point home for everybody else.

How many days do we have left?

I like Gimlear's point about Constant looking like disinterested scum.
VOTE: Constantine the Hermit

Still haven't given up on Tool though.

[Zulfy]

Gimmy, what do you think of the Aris wagon?

[Zulfy]

I guess I should have been more specific. What do you think of the PEOPLE in the wagon?

[Zulfy]

Busy with Thanksgiving stuff, just dropping in.

And I'm not sure what's stranger. Zulf's vote of tool or Lapsa voting Jar...come on , folks.
Zulf , are you townreading Gimlear?

I am townreading Gimlear and scumreading Toolenduso.

[Zulfy]

Ho. Ly. Shit.
Toolenduso is scum.

[Zulfy]

I'll be ignoring any posts made at this time. It's been too long since I've spoken up.

[Zulfy]

JJD-Keyser is striking me as town v town.

Alrighty then. Hey tooleanduso, why don't you explain your buddying with Keyser? I mean, if either of you turn up being scum, we already know who the partner was. Well, maybe not. Would scum make it that easy? Still, your focus on protecting Keyser is pretty obvous. Why don't you help scumhunt?

Call it buddying if you want. What I see is a person trying to get town out of RVS, and people jumping on something that is very easy to paint as looking scummy. I'm not trying to protect him, I'm looking at the people who are attacking him because I think that's the best place to look for scum right now. I think scum would want to take a bite of that juicy apple.

Uh I think Trivium is probably town. The way he so eagerly switched over to me like he had caught me in a slip reads very much like a new(ish) town player thinking they've found something big. It feels genuine.

--Town--
Trivium

.......

Grayfoxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

-Slight scumlean mostly just for #138. Looks like scum hesitation to appear too scummy while still wanting to hop on a juicy wagon. Other than that not much to go on. This early in the game I don't buy into lurking arguments too much.

Keyser:

-Don't buy the early-game arguments against Keyser about trying to look town. Yes, it's possible that's what he's doing. But I see no reason to believe that over the very plausible town explanation of "but he literally just wanted to know though."
-His responses to the pressure are a little illogical, but I still don't see a reason to read them as scummy. They actually ring towny to me because they come across like he's sure of himself and not trying to project an image, if that makes any sense...like here's an example. In #43 he responds to JJD by sarcastically saying "yes, scum have strong motivation to publicly look scummy." Like, the statement itself doesn't really make sense, and I feel like a more scummy approach would be to turn it around and start pushing a case on JJD or something along those lines.
-Generally he just comes across as a person who feels like it's obvious he's town, and the way I read that is that he thinks he should be obvtown because he knows that he's town.
-His switch to Performer in #196 amid continuing near-lynch status on the Trivium wagon also smacks of town to me. He didn't even back away from wanting to lynch Trivium, only suggested that we don't have to do it right now, so really as scum I think it would have been a better idea to keep pressure on Trivium without drawing attention elsewhere.

...

makara:

-Don't see a whole lot to go on here. The catch-up post is the most substantive thing and that could really go either way.
...

Trivium:

-I did think #59 was scummy. But it was surface-level scummy. It was the kind of thing that's really easy to call scummy. But he goes back and explains his push on Keyser in #98 and it seems legit to me. So he's a new-ish player and gets a little overeager to find scum. Makes sense. The fact that he comes right out and admits it, as Zulfy put it when I asked him about these posts, means he's either cleverly manipulative scum or very honest town. Taking into account Triv's experience and posting style, it makes more sense to me that he would be very honest town.
-There's also his turnaround where he votes me amid orange-colored, all-caps excitement in #110/111. This looks -- again -- like excited town who think they've found a genuine scumslip (or something, I was never too clear on what his reasoning was). This doesn't seem like the kind of thing a new scum player would think to do.

He's my strongest townread and therefore I would not feel good about voting for him at all. That being said I do not like it when D1 ends in a NL. Then we go to even numbers, which maintains the number of votes it takes to lynch (as opposed to reducing that number), while giving town less information -- all recipes for town gridlock. While I don't think Triv is scum, there is a chance I'm wrong. If we NL, there is a zero percent chance we lynch scum. Even if he flips town then

hopefully

we get to find scum on the wagon and lynch them tomorrow, so it's not all bad.

But I would be pushing against a Triv lynch for as long as possible.

This all reads like a player who

knows

who town and scum are. More--

[Zulfy]

You insinuated something was up.

I stopped thinking I would be the night kill after sky claimed cop following my push to lynch const instead.

This makes absolutely no sense.

By the end of the game you will understand.

Finally finished Lapsa's post and Zulf's response. I agree that the part Lapsa calls lack of paranoia between Zulf and Aris doesn't really look like lack of paranoia to me, though I could also see it happening between partners (saying this for the sake of argument, I still don't think Zulfy looks like scum).

Overall I don't really get the Zulf/Aris pairing but it looks like you have more work to do anyway.

You know both me and Aris are town and so say this kind of thing to get town-cred. Just like you did with Keyser and Trivium.

You're acting like you know something or at least figured out something. Something that makes you trust him more than you did yesterday. Don't make this a game of 20 questions.

None of this matters unless me or perf gets close to getting lynched. So how about this. If you want to push perf, go ahead. If you want to push me, go ahead.

But I am not friggin answering your question right now.

Sooo you're saying there's another investigative role out there?

I am not saying that.

The reason I asked that was because you were insinuating some sort of role. Lapsa, I believe entirely. You had been neighborized by Lapsa and were taking advantage of that with these kinds of posts, implicitly. Now though? Now you just realized that being in a neighborhood doesn't confirm you as town, so you throw Lapsa under the bus.

[Zulfy]

And I can't comprehend why. Perf will confirm that Lapsa neighborized him. I guess you just want to seed enough doubt for us to keep a nullread like Lapsa around until LyLo.

Lapsa, fuck you for being so nully. Now who we gonna lynch?

[Zulfy]

How do you say fuck in baltic?

[Zulfy]

everything Lapsa says is contradictory. EVERYTHING!

Name one.
Perf? If you're scum also, all is lost.
If you're not please get the hell in here and confirm Lapsa's claim.

Tool? Having reasons for your reads is expected from anyone, it doesn't absolve you of my claim. You barely ever contributed to hunting scum day 1, only being active right near the deadline. You did the same the next day with a lame read on Gimlear and nothing else.

[Zulfy]

Fluff, I'm not fooled! The actual, substantive number of posts was low.

I guess it's like this. Perf confirms Lapsa's claim and we lynch you (Constant? Lapsa, why not Tool?)
Or Perf tells us Lapsa is lying and we lynch Lapsa, and then you and Perf tomorrow after Lapsa flips neighborizer

[Zulfy]

Not really. Sort of in a limbo right now.

[Zulfy]

Performer and Lapsa be like

excuse me while i put other things on hold from page 56, proceed to bash my head in a brick wall
and ask tool the elephant-in-the-room question, which no one (WOW) has asked:

did Lapsa really recruit you

You'd supposedly know the answer to that. So why ask it?

This, by the way, is what super super obvious PR softing looks like:

@Ang I'm not trying to be impolite but I'm not going to answer your question of why I'm afraid I may die tonight

I saw this and, seeing absolutely no logical reason to think that Perf would be the NK, assumed that whatever his role was made him more likely to die at night. That could have meant:

-A hider, which wouldn't make sense given that hider is basically an investigative role and we've already had two investigative flips.
-A weak role, which wouldn't make sense for the same reason.
-A bodyguard.

Why Perf thought he would die, I now have no idea.

Needless crumbling was all it was. There was zero reason for him to think that he would have died last night.
[...]

But for all of this, Zulfy's reaction to this was even worse. He actually knew that I had caught onto something about a PR and his strategy was to try to get me to out it publicly despite my obviously not wanting to:

Sooo you're saying there's another investigative role out there?

I am not saying that.

The reason I asked that was because you were insinuating some sort of role.

And then he proceeded to use it as part of a scumcase on me,

Just like with Performer, there was no reason at all to bring it up. Why did you? Why even type it and press enter if it doesn't help town at all?

which, A) Why the hell would this ever mean that I was scum, and B) Zulfy's case on me was retroactive bullshit anyway. Zulfy decided I was scum first:

Tool is scum

And

then

decided to go look for support for his scumread on me:

Tool's ISO is a bit overwhelming so I will have to eat it in tiny chunks.

And came back with a case that was weak as hell.

My case was always weak as hell, that's why I went ISO diving. The stuff about you knowing that Triv and Keyser, JJD and me are town. Then when I come back all this Lapsa stuff is happening.

[Zulfy]

You know both me and Aris are town and so say this kind of thing to get town-cred. Just like you did with Keyser and Trivium.

Why are you certain Aris is town in this scenario? Forgive me if I forgot your stance on Aris himself.

Part of the scumread on Toolenduso

Finally finished Lapsa's post and Zulf's response. I agree that the part Lapsa calls lack of paranoia between Zulf and Aris doesn't really look like lack of paranoia to me, though I could also see it happening between partners (saying this for the sake of argument, I still don't think Zulfy looks like scum).

Overall I don't really get the Zulf/Aris pairing but it looks like you have more work to do anyway.

Obviously you know your own alignment, but I'm not really seeing why this quote implies that Tool knows Aris is town. In fact he specifically calls YOU out here to say that you don't look like town but is mostly silent about Aris except to comment that the you/Aris interactions don't imply scum/scum. If Aris were scum with Tool, I could see wanting to shrug a case off on Aris here, especially one that he knows is wrong (because its based on a connection to you).

If I was scum I'd want my partner to be tied to a townie, don't you think?

Re the exchange with Tool about Performer: I almost commented on 1323 when it happened but I was concerned that it was a read based on an ongoing game. If it IS a read based on an ongoing game then please just stop talking about it altogether. If you are going to be cryptic about your reason for reading someone...thats kinda bad.

Yes thank you.

If the read was related to an ongoing game then it shouldn't have been brought up at all in the first place. If it isn't, then I don't see any reason to be coy about it because that is just dangling a carrot and could easily be a subtle attempt to appear useful/informed in hopes that you will be kept around. So I'm not going to say anything more about that line of thought, but that is where I stand on it.

[Zulfy]

Yo Perf how's about you answer

me

?

[Zulfy]

did I tell you I love you, Pidgeon

Gaaaayyyyyy

Perf you answered my question. Next question: Why the need for crumbing? To me it seems like it only serves to make everyone, scum included, suspect you have a power role and so therefore raise your chances of being night killed.

[Zulfy]

UNVOTE: Constantine
Literally dizzy.

PEDIT: Tool,
"1. Coming into D3 I thought Perf was just going to claim. Why do such obvious softing unless he was ready to come out?"

Answer: How does that translate into letting it out in the open for all to see?

"2. As I noted in my post coming into D3 and as I wound up defending without the benefit of being able to point out Perf's obvious PR softing, it looked to me like scum would want to push a lynch on Perf D3 based on his play D2. Believing that he wouldn't soft a fakeclaim like that as scum, I thought Perf to be pretty likely town and wanted to head off what I anticipated would be an effort to mislynch him."
Answer: Did scum neighborizer not occur to you?

And about my case being weak, that's for the others. I'm fully convinced by it, but am cognizant that I'd have a hard time convincing everyone else.

[Zulfy]

I breadcrumbed in a way that would solidify my PR claim in the future, in case people have a tough time, as obviously there are - Jar and tool.
I don't breadcrumb so badly that people would pick up on it and kill me at night, however.

Tool picked up on it, so is it inconceivable that scum would also?

[Zulfy]

Massclaiming is useless as I doubt there's more than 3 PR roles. Who thought it would be a good idea?

[Zulfy]

AP what's your game here?

[Zulfy]

Anybody could say that tho

Oh no, I sure do hope I don't die tonight.

Am I confirmed town now, Tool?

Pedit: We're getting there, don't you think?

[Zulfy]

Are you literally reading any of my posts regarding Lapsa? It doesn't look like you are.
Or maybe you are, and you're scum.

What am I missing?

AP: Sounds good.

[Zulfy]

Perf, not really getting your attack on Lapsa. He must have known you were going to speak up afterwards.

If anything, invoking WIFOM makes him scumreadable. But it's WIFOM.
But he invoked it.

Yo if it's a Lapsa/Perf team this was just absolutely brilliant and I congratulate the two of you.

[Zulfy]

Anybody could say that tho

Oh no, I sure do hope I don't die tonight.

Am I confirmed town now, Tool?

Pedit: We're getting there, don't you think?

Are you literally reading any of my posts regarding Lapsa? It doesn't look like you are.
Or maybe you are, and you're scum.

Did my post have anything to do with your reply or were you just incredulous to me not responding to your interaction with Lapsa?

[Zulfy]

Pero! Tomó! Answer my cuestión s

[Zulfy]

Performer, tool. On phone so autocorrect

[Zulfy]

Questions* damn.

Not liking how Aris slipped out of pressure, mostly because I de el like it's my fault.
Also not liking Gimlear's softclaim.

Pedir: tool ughhh you know what i mean. Why does that (what i posted in that post) Make you so confidente perf is town?

[Zulfy]

The fact that anyone could say that. It should be non indicativo dont you think?

[Zulfy]

Extremely exhausted and gonna be real busy tomorrow, so lemme get this in here real quick.

Zulfy, how about another round of applause?

That's Rihanna?

and he knew I was town

hey, be gentle! that's a misrepresentation. townreading != knowing

if i were scum - would just kill you when timing's appropriate

since i'm town - i'm trying to get a read on you with weapons available

Therefore I believe Lapsa.

PEDit: Let me SLEEP

[Zulfy]

Can't take no chances.

VOTE: Constantine

[Zulfy]

And now I'm wondering if I even had to pull that stunt yesterday.

[Zulfy]

Tool, I don't scumread you, but I would like some of my questions answered.

[Zulfy]

Lapsa, if you could share some of Perf's thoughts please?

[Zulfy]

in last post he wrote his scumreads:
ari, gim, zulfy (in that order)

Right.
I'm glad Constantine is dead by the way. Didn't want someone like that in MyLo.

[Zulfy]

Also, I will not delay claiming any longer. I am VT. The purpose behind not claiming yesterday was that I was trying to soft a PR in hopes of drawing the night kill instead of Perf (since hopefully he wouldn't be considered as much of a threat due to being one shot).

Cool.
You forgot to popcorn it to somebody.

[Zulfy]

Fluff, I'm not fooled! The actual, substantive number of posts was low.

Are you trolling right now? I feel like you're trolling.

I guess it's like this. Perf confirms Lapsa's claim and we lynch you (Constant? Lapsa, why not Tool?)
Or Perf tells us Lapsa is lying and we lynch Lapsa, and then you and Perf tomorrow after Lapsa flips neighborizer

Did you miss the post where Perf acknowledged that he didn't know whether I'd been neighborized?

did Lapsa really recruit you

Which means we aren't in a neighborhood together, which means Lapsa fakeclaimed?

Having reasons for your reads is expected from anyone, it doesn't absolve you of my claim.

You're right, it doesn't. What absolves me of your claim is that your claim has no foundation.

You barely ever contributed to hunting scum day 1, only being active right near the deadline. You did the same the next day with a lame read on Gimlear and nothing else.

I honestly have no idea how you arrived at any of this, unless you've been reading somebody else's ISO and thought it was mine:

-I had 43 posts before we reached the last day before deadline D1.
-I led the wagon on BMR, posited a scumlean case on Perf and tried to get town not to lynch Triv D1.
-I had something like 35 posts between the beginning of D2 and the original deadline.
-During that time I employed a very public re-do of my readslist. I also pushed for a gimlear lynch -- didn't just give a "lame read" on him.

[Zulfy]

Don't trust Keyser.

don't trust keyser

We have time, so let's do this: give me your strongest reasons why people should not trust

It seems that apart from Pidgeon and I everybody seems to do so. My initial reasons for suspecting you have yet to be refuted. Please remember that I wrote what I did because I thought I was about to be replaced.

me.

[Zulfy]

Are you trolling right now? I feel like you're trolling.

[Zulfy]

And now I'm wondering if I even had to pull that stunt yesterday.

Your case on me was a stunt? For what purpose?

Yeah, I'd like to hear more about this

I'll popcorn to you, Zulfy.

Not really. Sort of in a limbo right now.

AP what's your game here?

[Zulfy]

Sooo you're saying there's another investigative role out there?

[Zulfy]

I feel like you're trolling.

[Zulfy]

I'll popcorn to you, Zulfy.

[Zulfy]

Night 1:

Investigated Keyser Soze

. Saw him move.
Hmm
Day 1, Cop and Follower are dead.
Me: If cop died last night, that must mean Keyser must have moved (wrong), I doubt there's any more power roles, so he's probably scum.
So I go after him.

Night 2:

Investigated Aristophanes

. Saw him not move at all.
Hey, wait a minute. Maybe Cop moved before he was killed. Maybe Trivium investigated Keyser and was then killed (right)
Now, coming into Day 3, it seems like everyone is town-reading me. Not good. Not good because I don't want scum to be lynching me. Haven't had a definitive result yet.

I'll play like a dumbass.
I'll make an incoherent case on Toolenduso.
Scum will see me as incompetent and let me live.
Turns out Performer is neighborizer, hot damn.

Night 3:

Investigate Angry Pidgeon

. He moves.
No, there's definitely no power roles left.
1 for 1, with 1 scum left for them to find.

Angry killed Performer.

I claim

Motion Detector

The set-up was designed to make me a marginally useful role but thanks to what happened Day 1 I turn out to be pretty damn useful.
Funny that.

[Zulfy]

VOTE: AngryPidgeon

[Zulfy]

I am Vanilla

[Zulfy]

Tool, why haven't you voted for AP?

[Zulfy]

As motion detector I can detect the motions from a player or from somebody who targets that player.

That's why Keyser's results came out positive the first night.

[Zulfy]

Tool:

Perf being afraid of dying despite seemingly having no reason for that made you believe he had a power role.
You had no proof of it but kept hinting at something whenever Gim and I pushed it.
Why? This only served to make it more and more visible. You later ask me why I was pushing you if I'm saying it only made Perf's possible role more visible, but I never read Perf as town for it. If anything I read Perf as scum for needlessly softclaiming when there was absolutely no pressure for him to do so.

So why did YOU do it?

AngryP:

There are no other roles. There could be a ninja to go with my role, but I don't think so.

Spoiler: Why I don't think so

At the start of the game we had 13 players, other than me, 5 of these could perform an action (Follower, cop, mafia cop, neighborizer and mafia)
That's a maximum of 10 players who would come out positive if I investigated them. Seems to me like my role was meant to be only slightly useful. I feel like Mario designed this game for the investigative power roles to get in the way of each other. (Imagine cop investigating a townie, follower investigating cop and me investigating the cop. Follower and cop will now slightly suspect the people they targeted despite everyone being innocent)

The only other defense you might have is that I might be lying. I look forward to your attack.

[Zulfy]

Ebwop: In spoiler (Imagine cop investigating a townie, follower investigating cop and me investigating the follower)

[Zulfy]

Second ebwop: In spoiler: Follower and

motion detector

will now slightly suspect the people they targeted despite everyone being innocent.

[Zulfy]

As motion detector I can detect the motions from a player or from somebody who targets that player.

That's why Keyser's results came out positive the first night.

I'm definitely confused then. What happened w/ Keysor?

He already stated this, and it makes sense, but I'll let him answer because it's a dick move to answer someone else's questions.

Hey, thanks.

Keysor killed triv

What the hell? No.

I investigated Keyser night 1. Before Trivium died, Trivium investigated Keyser. Since as motion detector all I saw was that there was movement in Keyser's house. I thought it was because Keyser was scum, but later realized it was Trivium investigating Keyser.

[Zulfy]

I do expect to see some follow up conclusion, but I dunno.

All jokes aside, I'll say stuff that is game pertinent within the hour probably.

I'm gonna catch up here tomorrow. I know I've missed questions and stuff, so my apologies.
I have been keeping up though as much as possible.

I'm going to take a much closer look at that when I get a chance, as I'm sure it didn't just happen all by itself with no scum influences.

V/la every weekend, per my sig, but I make every attempt to be around possible.

I will respond to in full once I get a chance.

Will have updated reads and stuff soon!

I'll try not to make a wall though.

coming soon to a thread near you!

[Zulfy]

But Lapsa

Why?

to help you

[Zulfy]

Incidentally, that's a song by......

Trivium.



What I'm saying here is that Aristophanes needs to stop lurking and Lapsa is weird.


Tool! Okay. Glad you're moved in by the way.

[Zulfy]

This game was probably the most fun I've ever had playing mafia. (Even if I lost, FOR THE FIRST TIME mind you) I hope to play with all of you soon.

Aris: What did you in was your apparent lack of time to be involved in the game, I guess maybe try to plan ahead better next time?
Lapsa: You did very well, I like how you came out swinging at the very end, you even were catching on to JJD for a second there.
JJD: You were really great. I was so shocked to find out you were scum. Good game.
AP: Ha got u

I'm not gonna go down a list here haha, but suffice to say that it's been a fun couple of months with you all. See ya next time.

[Zulfy]

I'ma miss u bb

[Zulfy]

Mods r away

[Zulfy]

And Zulfy will play