Mini 1728: Circus Mafia (Game Over)

[Performer]

VOTE: Jar for mislynching the Town Doctor and causing us the loss in my first game on this site

VOTE: Keyser for going missing and ruining it for the biggest game I ever played, on this site

I feel
so mad at both of you

[Performer]

Hi Ari
I'm not ASP
but I did like the avatar
I'll change it in a bit, to remove the mixup

Whoops, I meant only one vote
mak, I see you hiding in the trunk of your car. It's 85 today, come out before you get heat stroke

VOTE: makara

Initiating playstyle imitations: Antihero & Varian-

[Performer]

@Laps the mod's clarification could mean they have it or not

Seeing as the host said have over 20 days left , we can relax a bit LOL.
-----
The talk of Keys posting that publicly, that strikes me as incredibly odd. I don't see a reason why he needed to inform the rest of us about that.
-----
@tool can you shed some more light on Laps. I know it was just 1 game but does he always post like that? Without any explanations, ever - to back his votes?
-----
@Keys "Something strange is going on in this circus... and I plan to find out"
?

I already had 2 crazy pills. Thanks for joining me in taking some.

As for gray - a bit of background on him - I played 1 game where he was town. He seems to come alive most after d1.

"Question: if one player defends another player citing meta-playstyle reasons, is this more likely to come from town or scum? Or is it non-alignment indicative? "
I'd say it's NAI by itself. I've seen scum as well as town , do this.

-----
@Gar I played in a 21-person game with Keys as town in it and he is playing really different in here, compared to that game

[Performer]

pedit: nvm, Mario updated the deadline

[Performer]

@Zul multiple posting like that looks alright to me, as it looks easy to read.
@Blue so…the way Key phrased it like a pm, nothing about that is odd?
@Tri what do you mean about your 85…?
@tool thanks for the meta dive on Keys regarding daychat. You seem to use meta heavily.

[Performer]

Vote: JarJar

For not baking down from an obviously bad position.

but Lapsa is also scummy.

I can't see any other motive Keyser could of had for asking whether maf. have day talk other than to appear townie.

Townie doesn't need to appear townie

. Therefore-

VOTE: Keyser

I realize that my vote on keyser actually was pretty dumb and I panicked

to make myself look town

. It is very hard to care less about staying in the game and more about scumhunting.

Contradiction?
Inconsistent?

FOS: Trivium

Yes, I'm still here. I haven't seen signs of town-Trivium yet.

GrayFoxxxx - what are your thoughts so far? Your half-a-town-point has been rescinded.

Thor once told me you catch more flys with honey than you do rage so I'm going to pour honey all over my chest and ask you to join my Trivium wagon.

I would also like to vote trivium, but I don't know the vote count.
It's too early to be troubled like this

whispers trivium has three votes

@Ari why are you townleaning Laps/Jar/me?

@Tri wait a second. How are you reading tool to be buddying Keys?

@Gim I noticed you haven’t moved your vote out of RVS. Any thoughts on the situation right now?

@mak same question I asked Gim

Don't want to lynch to day: Keyser Soze

[Performer]

fuck me
forgot about the multiquotes in that post

speaking of Gar's honey speech,


VOTE: Trivium
I believe this puts him at L-1

[Performer]

Currently looking through Performer's ISO (I have a few concerns):

- lots of questions with little analysis/results on those questions.
- are you following up with any of your concerns/suspicions?
- please explain your scum-read of Trivium.

One of my concerns is Lapsa, for his early bare reads list and heavy swinging of votes, without backing up. However, it's still early in the day. And after reviewing Ari's link about Lap in another game, I'm willing to provide benefit of the doubt to him. I've seen that in Gray when he was town, in a finished game.

Another concern is why you asked about mak , when he said he'd come back today. It's not even 10am PST Thursday. Why the rush?

Tri has been tunneling you for you bringing up day talk. He's blowing it out of proportion.

[Performer]

VOTE: makara

Lapsa voted mak, then voted him again in 211, then voted Blue in 212, then voted mak again in the same post.

FoS: Lapsa
-----
Just saw Tri's recent post, and that's striking me as frustrated town .

UNVOTE: Trivium

@mod thanks for the welcome to the circus. The popcorn is good – instead of tasting like the salty movie popcorn, it tastes sweet like kettle corn.

Will be going through Jar's ISO, in response to Keys.

[Performer]

@Keys
Interesting you say that about me, when there was you, Ank, Kit, and me left vs 4 villains. I needed your help…but after early d5, you just vanished!
Anyway, in that game I had to be myself (no playstyle imitations) after realizing things were bleak even before the rest of the flips. If I’m not imitating anyone else, just being me, I play differently and bring it up different things, regardless of faction.

As for why I was concerned, it looked like you were going to blow something out of proportion about his lurking, when he already stated V/LA until Thursday. But you already answered that so that's water under the bridge now.

[Performer]

Tri has been

tunneling you for you bringing up day talk

. He's blowing it out of proportion.

Hmm.. so what's your read of JarJarDrinks?

I agree that this it's odd that Perf hasn't mentioned me. .

To be fair, I haven't seen you mention me either.

[Performer]

@Tri FoS means Finger of Suspicion. It's a mafia abbreviation for suspecting someone for scummy behavior.

VOTE: makara

Just saw Tri's recent post, and that's striking me as frustrated town .

UNVOTE: Trivium

How about the fact that he's yet to even

acknowledge

the points made against him? Don't that strike you as just a tiny bit scummy?

It's still odd but as he said, he 's being scumread by so many things that he 's doing. I've seen this kind of frustration post from town before, in my 1st newbie game a while back. I don't believe my vote on him is good anymore.
I'm going to take a closer look at Gray. People who don't say much or don't say anything at all on d1, understandable. But it's very disturbing. It's like they expect some free ride out of here as town, and if they're scum - no. We can't let that slide.

[Performer]

Just went over Gray's ISO. What's going on with this, Gray? It doesn't look like the Townie I saw in that one game we played.
However, if you're really town, I really hope you won't be that inactive like in that game. Your play wasn't the most trustworthy and it almost got you mislynched on d2.

Your 138 spoke of being too early to be troubled...but by what?
Is this just a scum statement to make yourself look like you're not lurking?

You voted Tri, then you wanted Tri's read on you.
Gray, if you were so sure Tri would flip as scum, why would you care about his read on you??

[Performer]

@Keys concerning Jar, I'm getting a slight town lean on him from his ISO.

Also, his reaction to Zulf in 153, looked genuine:

Feels like he's talking about me as if he's knows for sure I'm town

[Performer]

V/la every weekend, per my sig, but I make every attempt to be around possible.

Can't remember if I've said that already.

And no, not avoiding anything Zulf, just not at the point of answering yet.
Same goes to Keyser, who I will respond to in full once I get a chance.

Spoiler:

i also still want to know why you're townleaning the three of us

[Performer]

so many of these scum null town list seem so artificial.

All of them?
Or some? If this option - which ones?

LAMIST - Look at me I'm so town

lets see what else that could mean


look at my immolated Santa Thigh

Look at my impressive snail trail

Look at my immense soft titties

Spoiler:

lol

[Performer]

-I looked through Lap’s posts in the game Ari linked us. Thought it’s understandable, I think it’s a very easy way for scum to hide with his playstyle…so yes, I think it’s a scummy sign. He vote patterns are alright but his reads list sound forced. I’ll stick him at null for now.
I’m not sure what you mean by suffering from confirmation bias, regarding Tri…

Placing Gray into null right now, due to his answers to my questions, along with his 249. Not quite sure how to place him yet.

Blue’s ISO gives me a sour taste in the mouth.

VOTE: Blue


Can we also have an updated votecount by tomorrow, fellow ex-scum buddy, Mario?

[Performer]

Just did a quick lookup of Blue's meta in this game:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

It looks very different than what he's done in this game.

[Performer]

Hey all , I'm fairly busy today and will be prioritizing one of my other games because of deadline. I'll try and

@mod I apologize if I was treading dangerous on breaching the game rule of speaking about an ongoing game. I don't think I did get over that line though, Toolsenduo - but I'll try to be more careful about it

[Performer]

pedit: I'll try and catch up later, to the posts

[Performer]

Blue’s ISO gives me a sour taste in the mouth.

Can you expand on this?

I can't talk about it anymore , pertaining Blue (moderator warning).
-----
@Keys I was not liking or disliking Gray's answers enough to swing me either way at the moment.
however, his recent 296 came across as bored scum waiting for a mislynch

I'm not sure why you were bringing up those games I played with Jar & you in (I was only in our game for d5, very short time). I thought addressed that earlier as a playstyle fascination I have.

[Performer]

Personally I think scum pushed tri up to l-1 on purpose to disarm his wagon because his scum. All that talk on hammering honestly seemed a bit staged who was the one talking about hammering again.

That...seems like an awfully strange thing for scum to do. Push a wagon on their partner in the hopes that it fails? I've seen scum bus partners and I've seen them keep partners at arm's length but I don't think I've seen them push a partner in the hopes of the wagon failing.

This just sounds so...awkward to me.


@Blue we've got 6 days but they can fly by really fast, so I want some answers:
I want to hear you wagon analysis
as well as your other reads
and any other thoughts you have on the d1 situation

[Performer]

did the philosopher ever get back to us about his follow-up to my question for his 3 townreads??
i'm not seeing it

[Performer]

@Keys I have to admit. Your recent reads list is gorgeous. Personally I wouldn't propel tool into townread so quick though. Something disturbing me about him. I'll have to recheck his ISO.

[Performer]

In addition to the ever-avoidance of answering my (& others') questions, Ari's last few posts weren't helping my read of him, either.

Thank you for your rather different view, Arist.

My pleasure!

Would you like to have a conversation about the differing views or merely comment from a distance?

(Unless that is sarcasm, in which case, let me know because I am usually better at picking it up...)

He asks Tri about conversing about something, then asks if Tri was actually being sarcastic.

I'm gonna catch up here tomorrow. I know I've missed questions and stuff, so my apologies.
I have been keeping up though as much as possible, and would like to compliment you on the quickwagon. That was some Grade A stuff!

I'm going to take a much closer look at that when I get a chance, as I'm sure it didn't just happen all by itself with no scum influences.

Later, he reasons that he was busy so he'd catch up by the next day.

V/la every weekend, per my sig, but I make every attempt to be around possible.

Can't remember if I've said that already.

And no, not avoiding anything Zulf, just not at the point of answering yet.
Same goes to Keyser, who I will respond to in full once I get a chance.

later still, he tells black-and-white-avatar & Captain Planet, that he's not avoiding anything

I'm back and rereading everyone. Will have updated reads and stuff soon!

I have been reading somewhat and can say that stuff def changed from my last post. I'll try not to make a wall though.
It used to be my style, but I've moved away from it. It was pretty helpful though (if only to myself) so I make no promises that I won't do it again.
If I do, my apologies in advance.

yesterday afternoon, he stated he'd follow-up "soon" and that he's sorry in advance if he wall posts

Still nothing from Ari.

[Performer]

@Jar does Ari's behavior remind you of a certain someone who kept being very dodgy of my questions, in our newbie game we finished, Jar?
*cough* Vampire the Mafia scum *cough*

[Performer]

^ Vampirate, not Vampire

[Performer]

"While performer never took a side on Keyser"

I was observing the interactions about Key, in order to later make a judgment on his faction. So far, he's looking town.

"Lapsa and performers reads are eriely similar with little reasoning is there like a neighborhood or something I'm not aware of otherwise they seem to be a little to much in sync."

Sharp observation! I actually didn't notice that until you brought it up. It's looking more like coincidence to me than anything else.
Lapsa, thoughts on that?

[Performer]

I've been reading these two as town even before the Garm vs Jar discussion .
Ari now that you're here - thoughts on the discussion between them?

[Performer]

@Ari - regarding Tri’s posts - they were coming across scummy, which is why I put him at L-1.

Another question - you stated you like Lap...because you played only 1 game with him in Sweet Dreams?
You don't find anything disturbing at all, about his completely bare posts?

[Performer]

I've been reading these two as town even before the Garm vs Jar discussion .
Ari now that you're here - thoughts on the discussion between them?

Discussion between Gramr and JarJar?
Like, recent discussion?

Like, I've only seriously read up to Pg 8 and it is after that point??

(sorry to disappoint, but I can't comment on what I don't know. To the point I have read, both have been townleaning)

Oh ok.
But yeah, their very recent discussion .

[Performer]

bluemoon rising is monkey man.

whats the purpose of this post?

I have gotten icky vibes from BlueMoon when skimming the first time, so I will post my

Intent to hammer

but not for a couple of days.

No way should you be posting your intent to hammer - you still need to catch up with the thread and post your re-reads of everyone.

VOTE: Aristophanes

My intent clearly states that it will not occur until after all of that happens. Thanks for trying though.

i had the same conclusion with Keys that its bullshit that you claim intent to hammer, when you didnt put forth your part 2
Ari, where in your 409 did you say you'd post a follow-up? For all we know, you could've hammered today or tomorrow, without your follow-up.

Another question - you stated you like Lap...because you played only 1 game with him in Sweet Dreams?
You don't find anything disturbing at all, about his numerous bare posts?

[Performer]

just saw replacement Angry , replacing Blue
Welcome!

[Performer]

@Jar my answer to you is I’m getting a scummy feel from Ari

Why'd you say there's townreading of Lapsa? What he’s done so far isn’t making me lean high town on him. His post pattern doesn't necessarily make me see him as scum, either.

[Performer]

@Tri that game you linked, you weren’t scum in that game. Can you link one to us where you were?

[Performer]

@tool your 343 - the tone of that post sounded strange

As for your 377 question – my vote on Blue was straightforward enough. What exactly weren't you getting there? I've yet to catch up with pg 18 and beyond, though, which is roughly where Angry replaced Blue


@Zulf Jar’s 153 gave me a genuine tone.

[Performer]

Vote: Gimlear

For having the audacity to vote for me.

rvs post

I don't see anything wrong with asking about daytalk.

Vote: Lapsa

Show us you plan on contributing this game.

brief but ok post in terms of attempting pressure

Vote: JarJar

For not baking down from an obviously bad position.

but Lapsa is also scummy.

spoke of a bad position but didn't expound on that
spoke of Lap being scummy but didn't expound

You're the one pressing it. Not that I'm not suspicious of the others as well.

another brief and incredibly mysterious post

Anyone who hammers without using the day I will hold personally responsible if there is a town flip. Even if it is a scum flip they will be scummy.

a informational post that could've come from scum OR town

Sorry it's been a busy week. Will post content tonight.

never even returned.

-----
I am NOT liking Angry's entrance. As in the suspicion I have on that slot, he's not done anything to curb my suspicion.

[Performer]

Vote: Gimlear

For having the audacity to vote for me.

rvs post

I don't see anything wrong with asking about daytalk.

Vote: Lapsa

Show us you plan on contributing this game.

brief but ok post in terms of attempting pressure

Vote: JarJar

For not baking down from an obviously bad position.

but Lapsa is also scummy.

spoke of a bad position but didn't expound on that
spoke of Lap being scummy but didn't expound

You're the one pressing it. Not that I'm not suspicious of the others as well.

another brief and incredibly mysterious post

Anyone who hammers without using the day I will hold personally responsible if there is a town flip. Even if it is a scum flip they will be scummy.

a informational post that could've come from scum OR town

Sorry it's been a busy week. Will post content tonight.

never even returned.

-----
I am NOT liking Angry's entrance. As in the suspicion I have on that slot, he's not done anything to curb my suspicion.

Perf, what's the point of this? Why are you analyzing blues posts now that he's been replaced? It's not like angry can really defend them.

What exactly don't you like about the entrance?

That post was in reply to Tool.

As for the entrance - he voted Keys because he's thinking that Keys is scum, due to that pm question - he's seeing Keys as scum. That's inflating the read.

What about his posts is bare? Perhaps it'll be more clear to me as I catchup, but I am also curious what your criteria for calling a post bare is.

@Performer: Moon lurked and flaked, and quoting his ISO is a very grandiose way of making that point. I'm curious about your thoughts outside this realm, but will catch up before asking you anything that you've potentially already made clear.

@JarJar: I don't mind going to bat for Moon. I know Moon's alignment and I'm pragmatic enough to say whatever needs to be said. That said, there aren't really any points worth trifling Performer over. His stance seems to be that Moon was a lurker and that is good enough for a D1 lynch, which is an attitude I can in the right context understand.

Bare posts as in insufficient in making me lean town on him . Outside the realm, I haven't seen much yet from the replacement, to sway my vote away. Do You said you will have to catch up more? When you've caught up fully, can you let us know your reads. It's very odd that Blue's wagon grew like this because he lurked and flaked - the pattern from Blue was scummy, yes, but I've replaced into town role when the predecessor was scummy as hell, in past games. So , I do understand the case you may be in. So far , I'm just not believing your town.

[Performer]

Hey all, I had a very busy weekend . I'll be catching up.

[Performer]

i am just over the behavior against Gray's claim and the hammering. after the 2 flips, i had my top 3 suspects . however, i'm wondering a few things first about Ari & Gar

Scumhunting.

Also I just realized that Triv being killed tells us scum probably does not have a roleblocker.

Not getting the point of this setup speculation.

Also, his reaction to Zulf in 153, looked genuine:

Feels like he's talking about me as if he's knows for sure I'm town

@Zulf Jar’s 153 gave me a genuine tone.

What does this

mean

, main act?

Didn't I already address this?

[Performer]

@Ari you asked Gar at end of d1, to hammer Gray even though he claimed Town Follower . why the hell did u do that?!
-----
Did ISO on

mak

and he did plenty of focusing on Triv - who turned out to be the claimed Cop. Along with the collection of other posts from mak, his ISO reads like he doesn't want to draw attention , as scum would not.

Gar

is also a scum suspect of mine - page 23 with Gar’s posts…Godfather much?? I can’t recall the last time I heard of a post asking for someone to investigate if the person was truly town. wth??

Page 24 interactions between

Gar & Angry

don’t look town to me. Angry defending Gar's call for the Cop investigation on him, was so awkward. Why the need to defend Gar like that?

[Performer]

@Gar y did u hammer Gray, who at the time was a supposed PR?? u couldn't have voted elsewhere??

[Performer]

Performer, would you rather we nolynch having had 2 (possible) PRs out themselves?
One could have easily been a fakeclaims and whoever lived would likely be lynched today.
Grey had weak crumbs (he said the word "follow" twice) and I did not believe them to be real.
We needed a flip,and we got it. I'm sad the claim was legit, but so be it. Hindsight is 20/20.

What would have been the benefit of not lynching yesterday?

@everyone it was day 1 and the hammer was rushed . You guys never heard of or even considered the option of not lynching a claimed PR, and letting PRs sort themselves out overnight? That would've been way better than lynching a claimed PR at the deadline. Now I'm sad and lonely that our PRs died - not just 1 but 2.
I'm not saying that I didn't consider it possible that it could've been a fake claim, but given the situation being day 1 and that close to deadline, the rush hammer was a sub-optimal move and you were involved with it. So that does not look good for you. Also, your talk of whoever living would be lynched today - whoever lived could've used their power overnight, and told us the result today, then we could've gone from there.
As for Gray's crumbs, I didn't see anything that resembled crumbing. Didn't mean we had to rush the hammer instead of suspending the disbelief, especially on d1.

I'm keeping an eye on you, Ari.
-------
@Gar fair point about the Godfather part but that doesn't mean I won't point out scummy things like that

[Performer]

Also if I was godfather and baiting a investigation why would I shoot the cop

One theory I have is that scum wasn't sure they would actually bait the investigation from Tri
So they would nk the Cop just regardless, because the Cop is too dangerous to the scum team

This is my analysis as to the motive that scum had, for Tri's death on n1.

I'm suspecting (either scum leaning or FoSing) the following folks in color code, from the vote count of the wagon on Gray, in d1:
AngryPidgeon (1)- Performer
Lapsa (1)- JarJarDrinks
grayfoxxxx (7)- Zulfy, Gimlear, toolenduso,

Aristophanes, AngryPidgeon,

Trivium,

Garmr

Aristophanes (1)- Keyser Soze
Trivium (2)- grayfoxxxx, makara
Garmr (1)- Lapsa

@tool what makes you think town has a Dr/bg and scum has a roleblocket/strongman

this sounds logical if scum had a Strongman, since that explains why Tri asked for protection and he was still killed. Strongman can't be resisted by any jailkeeping, roleblocking, or doctor protection

another scenario could be that we don't have a Doctor or Bodyguard

Wow, Keyser, that is very helpful. Thanks
for doing all that work. I want to see if there's a way I can boil it down a little and get some kind of picture into the way people flowed in relation to the wagon and in relation to other people's stance on the wagon.

And yeah the narrative reinforced my suspicion of gimlear.

I haven't caught up to all of page 29 yet but currently I have Zul & Gim listed as null in my reads list. I've been having a tough time sorting those 2 in this game.


-----
I honestly am finding it odd people are suspicious of Lap. His behavior toward Garm's stretch posts of tying me & Lap together, as well as Lap's behavior toward Gar at the end of d1, make me townread Lap, compared to Gar.

[Performer]

You're as fake this game as nicki minaj's butt

@Keys someone said that about Ari? What on earth?...
LOl Nicki Minaj...she's hot

@tool I'm having a hard time understanding that visual representation lol
i have no suggestions on how to improve that...just my 2 cents of feedback

@Key yeah I'm not fully convinced about Ari & Gar. From what I recall, Ari asked for someone to hammer, Gar hammered. Also, Gar was trying to tie Lap & I together because of weak reasoning, on d1.

[Performer]

Just did an ISO on Gim. My surface impression is that he's playing cool, playing under the radar.

Sorry guys. Lots of posts very quickly in day 2, so it's been taking all my time just to keep up with the reading. I will hopefully have more time tonight to post a more thoughtful response to the arguments against me, but the short response is that I had the same thoughts that other people were posting regarding triv, BMR, and gray. That's why it looks like I was sheeping so hard. Other people were just confirming what I already thought.

Also, I was starting to get suspicious of Garmr in the latter half of day 1. What's preventing me from going full on scumread on Garmr is that I just finished a game with him where he was town and acted similarly.

Who are your scumreads and townreads? Looking forward to your catch-up post.

[Performer]

My surface impression is that he's playing cool, playing under the radar.

keep in mind that 2 PRs are dead

there isn't much room left to justify playing 'under the radar'

Actually there is plenty of room. 2 people died, we have 11 left. If he is truly town and cares enough for town victory, I'd expect to see more from him. There's plenty to do in terms of scumhunting and townhunting.


@Zulf iirc, that reply about Jar and you in 153, was to someone else asking what my read on Jar was

[Performer]

will be catching up later, had a family emergency that lasted from Friday until recently

[Performer]

@Ang even if you believed Ari’s 647 regarding Gray, a no lynch would’ve been better on d1 in that situation. I still find it scummy about the behavior between Gar & Ari in voting Gray like that.
Oh, and Gar going so far as to think I’m scum because I’m townreading Lap? I did mention how Gar’s behavior at end of d1 in trying to connect me and Lap was scummy, which is why I’m townreading Lap.

My read on Gim has been null.

*still in midst of catching up

[Performer]

*caught up until page 33 at the moment
-----

post where (Trivium) he just rolled over and resigned himself to being lynched

@Gim what are you talking about? Where did he do this?
-----
@Lap why is Ang your scumread and everyone else is null and town?

[Performer]

Muh reads.
Pokemon?: Townlean, unless he don't answer my questions.
Loki: Townlean
SadEagle: Townlean (the hell is up with Lapsa's scumread? Rhetorical question obviously)
Ham Solo: Townlean
Catbag: Nullytownlean
Tacitus: True Neutral
Actor and Loch Ness: Null, lurklean
Lapsa: abcedminded and lame
Kevin: Soap scum

I'm echoing Keyser in that I have a tough time understanding this....other than Sad = Ang, Tac = Ari, Lap = Lap, Cat = Gim.
-----

Spoiler:

@Zulf thanks. I’m alright, it was an emergency concerning my grandpa. He’s doing better now.

@Zulf Why do you think Ari is still null , when he pushed for someone to hammer Gray in that situation?? He didn’t suspend disbelief and let PRs play out overnight on n1, rather he pushed for someone to hammer Gray so rashly, so close to deadline. Experienced, concerned town players, who care about the win condition and the health of their PRs, should always consider all alternatives. Ari’s move on Gray wasn’t pro-town.
-----
@Keys I never voted Gray because it never got to the point where I scumread him. When people began jumping on him and Gar hammered, I wasn’t active enough to get to interact with Gray. But as I said before, town doing that on Gray that close to deadline - was NOT smart!

I do plan to follow-up on voting on d2 , but we also have Constantine who just replaced in. So I want to see what he contributes.

@Constantine, what are your immediate thoughts? Are you town? Because I am scumreading you.

@Jar I'm not sure what you mean in scum matching town with a scumbuddy. I would think they would scum-pair town with town, in order for those specific people to get mislynched down the road. Hence Gar trying to connect Lap and I without good reasoning

[Performer]

@Ari whoaaa whoa whoa. Me defending the dead makes you scumread me? Analyzing the deaths is important in doing detective work on people’s motivations.

@Zulf you're scumreading Keys because he was analyzing the wagon on Tri & Gray?...

[Performer]

@Constantine, Are you town?

Nicholas Cage...good actor!

I second Jar's push on the mak replacement. We are midday on d2 and I'm readying up to vote Constant by today or tomorrow.

[Performer]

@tool sorry to hear that, that sucks. Hope things work out.

@Jar I'm....not understanding your case about the associations from Gar. -_-

LOL that is an interesting suggestion about the replacements

[Performer]

yeah tell me about it
in the SF Bay Area, it's pricey as hell to live in this part of the U.S.

[Performer]

@Ari by "suspension of disbelief," I mean they should have put faith in the truth-telling of the claimants. It was d1 after all. Overnight, things would sort out if they're telling the truth, and we'd get the info on d2 from the PRs who claimed. I find it hard to believe people have never heard of no lynch on d1, for the town benefit.

I happen to hold extremely strong beliefs about the safety of our PRs, especially on d1 claims. The fact that I called out scummy behavior because of what happened Gray, that I said I planned to vote Constant (formerly Garmr who hammered Gray after you asked someone to do it), your sudden timing in voting me because somehow I am scummy - all these things don't exactly give me town signs from you.

[Performer]

Yes performer has acted scummy this game.

Yes scum can also 'engage and question people'


Point?

I know we played one game together only. And you'd probably say that as town, I "always give off a scummy vibe" compared to my scum game. I have my way of scumhunting and townhunting so I have direction and am not a lost person in a big forest. I am town this game.

[Performer]

@Keys
“Who are the "NOT smart" town?”
I stated that it wasn’t smart of town to do that but scum of course, would jump on that. Why not hammer a PR and take care of the other at night?

This is why I believe from that wagon on Gray - Ang, Ari, and Gar are most suspect. This is why I highlighted them.

[Performer]

Does that effect the player(s) you are "either scum leaning or FoSing"?

What?.....

[Performer]

Also, I am a scumread of yours, right? Does my presence on Constantine do anything to make you think either way of them or is it a null interaction?

@Ari your presence on Constant? Constant has hardly posted and I can't recall any substantial interaction between you and him. His predecessor wasn't looking town to me.
VOTE: Constantine

[Performer]

Ari

Asked someone (turned out to be Gar) at end of d1, to hammer Gray even though he claimed Town Follower. The fact that I called out scummy behavior because of what happened Gray, that I said I planned to vote Constant (formerly Garmr who hammered Gray after you asked someone to do it), his sudden timing in voting me because somehow I am scummy - all these things don't exactly give me town signs from him.

Constant/Gar , makara, Ang

Gar pushed for Lap/my demise, Gar voted me on d1, and Gar complied with Ari’s asking for someone hammering Gray. Gar’s interactions with Lap at end of d1, also make me scum lean Gar.

mak & Gar's interactions with others, on page 19, along with Zulf's interactions - lead me to scumread mak & Gar. Did ISO on mak and he did plenty of focusing on Triv - who turned out to be the claimed Cop. Along with the collection of other posts from mak, his ISO reads like he doesn't want to draw attention , as scum would not.
More reason for Gar being a scumread of mine - page 23 with Gar’s posts…Godfather? I can’t recall the last time I heard of a post asking for someone to investigate him, if he was truly town. Not convinced about Gar being town this game.

Page 24 interactions between Gar & Angry don’t look good to me either. Ang defending scumGar's call for the Cop investigation on him, was so awkward. I think Ang already addressed why he did that but I'm not too convinced that Ang is innocent.

[Performer]

Jar are you only townreading me solely from that one game we played? If so, I don't think that's enough.

[Performer]

@tool I'm starting to feel like Keyser's questions regarding me, are becoming roundabout. I understand there's a reasonable point of scumhunting but the way he's continually pushing on me and phrasing his questions , is not giving me the best feeling

[Performer]

-Constantine: Wondering if garmr's stubborn support of towntriv wagon/opposition to BMR wagon would come from scum.

Gar's stubborn support of Tri (turned out to be PR) instead of Blue/Ang
as well as his hammer on Gray (turned out to also be PR)
His push on my demise

This isn't enough reason to vote Gar/Constantine, tool?

[Performer]

Anyone who has experience in playing FM as town, should NEVER take PR claims so lightly on d1.

[Performer]

@tool I'm starting to feel like Keyser's questions regarding me, are becoming roundabout. I understand there's a reasonable point of scumhunting but the way he's continually pushing on me and phrasing his questions , is not giving me the best feeling

i'm not entirely clear on what you're referring to but i do believe that on top of reasonable scumhunting there is also unreasonable scumhunting that comes from town.

This I agree is true
the other option is he is actually not town aligned, but I'm keeping that possibility in my pocket for now

[Performer]

What worries me most at moment is performer and lapsa. They have similar reads and voting pattern yet they scum read each other and don't question why they got similar behavior.

meh blue moon monkey man could be scum but it's pretty murky would perfer to lynch someone who is active and scummy. Aka trivium,lapsa or performer.

I'm interested in what bluemoon would flip tbh due to the fact so many people are running up his wagon and it's easier than trivs. Funny how so many opposed a lynch on triv yet people are all for a bluemoon wagon.

@zulfy

About the lapsa/performer thing No one has really looked at that I feel most of the players here skimmed that point talking about it will raise awareness so what are your thoughts on it zulfy.

also box 2 a player like triv is bad at playing scum because of all the slip ups showing that he is scum.

Ap vote triv before we get a no lynch

UNVOTE: triv

VOTE: perfomer
For reasons previously stated

I'm happy to take a investigation if I get tool off my back

Meh ap

I forgot gim existed

whats a town fowller gray

never midn looked it up myself that's a weird role.

I'm voting in 30 minutes i don't trust myself to keep awake with this bourbon and honey.

VOTE: grayfoxx

I am embarrassed for you ari deeply embarrassed because this scum fuck named lapsa is dodging questions yet your kissing up to him instead of asking why his dodging them.

Then say it's not a dick measuring contest. I can tell you were you can stick your.

I plan to participate a lot more that its D2.

VOTE: Gimlear

Yesterday he seemed to be following the popular wagons and trends in the town. He was on all the major wagons and didn't seem to have much independent intent.

Here are my brief reads:

town: tool, keyser, Aristo, jarjar, Zulfy

null: garmr, AP

scumlean: performer

scum: lapsa, gimlear

your scum reads to mine are similar except mine are more like this.

town: tool, keyser, AP

town lean-jarjar,

null: gimlear,makara,Zulfy

scumlean: Aristo

scum: lapsa, performer

want to converge and lynch lapsa since his both our hard scum read?

[Performer]

His actions toward Lap/Tri/me , keep pointing to lynching me. Along with his other posts, including the behavior toward Gray near end of day...how the hell is Town Follower odd? I just finished a game with a 1-shot Bp Doc, and THAT is odd. Also, a 2-man scum team vs 12 town is odd. Town Follower claiming alone is not odd and hammering in that situation, WOW.

[Performer]

So you mean his push against you? Why is that scummy?

In his defense, a town follower was an odd thing to consider given that we had a cop claim at the time.

And did somebody bring up the possibility of a 2-person scum team?

I'm saying the combination of things moves me to scum read him, and his push on me as I'm town, is one of the things that move me to scum read him. I don't only scumhunt/townhunt off meta, I do it off behavior patterns of players' actions and inaction, as well as their interactions with others.

I'm not sure why you believe that Follower is odd when we had a Cop
the two PRs existing isn't farfetched
what's wrong is the hammer on 1 of the 2, especially on d1

no one brought up the 2-person scum team (which was in my finished game I played against, very frustrating). I was using that as a benchmark to make a point

[Performer]

@Keys

"Why is opposition to the BlueMoonRising/AngryPidgeon scummy?"
Gar's opposition to voting Blue? Maybe because they're on the same team? Who knows.

"Yes, Garmr supported the Trivium wagon, but so did 5 others."
Yes but this was before Gray got wagoned and before the flips, and I didn't have the best reads before all that.

and why would scum not hammer? r u really asking me that, Keys? Ari asking for someone to hammer a claimed Town Follower, then Gar conveniently comes along to do that?
ur devil face is very uncomfortable lol...r u town??

[Performer]

@Keys
As for looking at things in hindsight and not flagging it at that time:

That was in twilight. I wasn't around at the short time between hammer and the mod locking this thread.
I think I've said more than enough regarding the no lynch on d1 in that case.

[Performer]

VOTE: makara

Seems pretty clear a Lapsa lynch isn't happening.

@Keysor and Tool - makara seems to be the common denominator in all of our scum lists. I know it's not ideal to lynch a empty slot but we're gonna start running out of time so we should probably decide on someone soonish. I think maka makes the most sense.

tool made a great point about how he can't claim if we put him on L-1 thought. Can I interest you on the Constant wagon instead?

[Performer]

I find it hard to believe people have never heard of no lynch on d1, for the town benefit.

This really comes down to personal opinion. I'm rather firmly against no-lynching on principal, especially D1.

Did ISO on mak and he did plenty of focusing on Triv - who turned out to be the claimed Cop.

How does him being a cop matter? Its not like scum could have known that. Also a fair number of people were pushing Trivium hard. I see you are voting the Garmr slot though, so that is consistent.

Scum would know if Tri was town though, so that's one of the things I saw was fishy from mak. Unfortunately the people who want him gone on d2 before he's replaced, seem to be ignoring that he can't claim if he gets mislynched as 1 of our last PRs.
-----
am i the only person who's suspicious of Constant's sudden self-meta defense of being an easy mislynch for scum? anyone would be able to say that regardless of faction
----
@Ang not sure if you have been following closely enough, but I'm not sure where you get the idea that I have been lurking by not being around on d2

[Performer]

Ok the arguments about not lynching Makara because he can't claim are awful. Makara is looking very plausibly like scum just from PoE and looking a gift horse in the mouth to give someone a chance to claim is stupid. Also Constantine's preemptive VT claim looks town given all this crap about not wanting to lynch unclaimed roles.

@Aris: Why does the lack of wagon on Lapsa make him more likely to be town? Why would scum be more likely to have been voted?

We're talking priorities . Before the page of your post here, it was looking like Constant was better than makara imo.
I think you're missing the actual issue about not wanting to lynch claimed roles. My problem was with people rushing lynches on claimed PRs on d1.

Guys, back me up here. That post is nonsense. He says something and then contradicts himself. He says something else and then contradicts himself again. What?

I haven't caught with reading the last page of posts yet but now that you pointed it out, Ari's post does sound confusing to me. Ari what were you trying to say about Constant?

Im pretty sure that Aris was scumreading your predecessor and is saying that you haven't done anything to change his impression of Garmr.

Not sure what to think about Ang answering on Ari's behalf, in reply to Constant's question to Ari.

[Performer]

Welcome, Sky! Remember that incredibly ridiculous game we just finished?? LOL

anyway, your slot fake claimed Cop
what do u have to say about this?

Spoiler:

please no one else answer for her

[Performer]

Ang's talk of

subtle appeal to fear of some sort'

@Jar do you recall the game where I was town vs Vampirate , who was Mafia Roleblocker?
he called some of my posts to be "shit AtE" and I was mislynched by town
this is looking like that situation

-----
I'm not too comfortable with lynching the mak slot right now

@mod can we get something like a day of extension for the deadline? I want to hear from Sky and others' interactions with her, if they get the chance to

[Performer]

Spoiler:

I'm talking in this spoiler because Skybird can't read spoilers.

why r u being so funny LOl

[Performer]

thx for updating us , Constant

I really like the recent 1045 post by Ari

the reaction from Sky wasn't quite what I expected
my immediate thought is that it seems genuine
does anyone else think it looks genuine ?

[Performer]

for clarification - looked genuine since she asked questions and is trying to use some time to read up

@Sky please let us know your thoughts once you finish reading

[Performer]

I *am* reading, lol. I'm pointing out things to see people's reactions.

How's SF btw? Super chilly. I heard you are in SF

[Performer]

the reaction from Sky wasn't quite what I expected

what were you expecting?

I expected her to be up to speed already. When I replace into a game, I typically am prepared going in...unless it's some huge 50+ page game.

@Keys it's just my first impression of her entrance, to which I noticed not enough people commented on

[Performer]

@Keys concerning Ang, he's still striking me as scummy. I'm fine with either that or Constant's lynch today

the moderator has been avoiding us !!!!!!!!

[Performer]

@Keys though it's my first impression on her, I'd still be fine with a lynch on Constant/Ang/Sky today

Aris, I'm not that certain of anymore.

What's your case on me again? You keep popping up with these weird "willing to lynch Perf" remarks. I don't understand how you're seeing me as scummy.

[Performer]

I have a scumread on national borders.

Will come back tonight

Pedit: Do you have some sort of .gif staffing agency, Soze?

Wouldn't be surprised that he does LOl.

his constant push on me being scum on d2, is no longer comfortable and making me want to aospl;apdpiajwyqiq like one of imitated players' playstyles


My new scum & null pile, along with the rest of my reads list in case I die tonight, in an upcoming post.

[Performer]

Scum

Constant/Gar , Sky/makara, Ang

Gar pushed for Lap/my demise, Gar voted me on d1, and Gar complied with Ari’s asking for someone hammering Gray. Gar’s interactions with Lap at end of d1, also make me scum lean Gar.

mak & Gar's interactions with others, on page 19, along with Zulf's interactions - lead me to scumread mak & Gar. Did ISO on mak and he did plenty of focusing on Triv - who claimed Cop - died - actually was Cop (I think that's motive for mak to have killed Tri). Along with the collection of other posts from mak, his ISO reads like he doesn't want to draw attention , as scum would not.
I like Sky’s entrance – the questions she asked in reply to me, as well as telling us she’d take time to read over posts and get back to us – these strike me as town behaviors. Due to the approved mod extension, I'm eager to hear her thoughts.

More reason for Gar being a scumread of mine - page 23 with Gar’s posts…Godfather? I can’t recall the last time I heard of a post asking for someone to investigate him, if he was truly town. Not convinced about Gar being town this game.

Page 24 interactions between Gar & Angry don’t look good to me either. Ang defending Gar's call for the Cop investigation on him, was so awkward. I think Ang already addressed why he did that but I'm not too convinced that Ang is innocent.

Scummy Earlier, Now Null

Ari – Asked someone (turned out to be Gar/now Constant) at end of d1, to hammer Gray even though he claimed Town Follower
The fact that I called out scummy behavior because of what happened Gray, that I said I planned to vote Constant (formerly Garmr who hammered Gray after you asked someone to do it), his sudden timing in voting me because somehow I am scummy - all these things didn't exactly give me town signs from him.

The interactions I had with him, along with the 726 post and Ari's 977 with the vote on Constant and his talk of avoiding another PR mislynch, is town behavior to me. I also really like the early 1045 post by Ari.

Other Null

Keyser

- I townread him because of his response to the wagon that developed on him on d1, since Tri blew the scum day talk question out of proportion. This was before Tri claimed Cop. But because of his highly peculiar, continued push on me on d2 to be lynched, I think he needs to be watched closely going forward. Bumped him to null.

And still not getting a good enough read on Zulf & Gim.

I think Ari/Zul/Gim/Keys need to be watched closely, going forward.

Town

Lap - I looked through Lap’s posts in the game Ari linked us. Thought it’s understandable, I think it’s a very easy way for scum to hide with his playstyle…so yes, I think it’s a scummy sign. His vote patterns were alright but his earlier reads list sounded forced, as scum could put forth empty reads lists like his. The aforementioned caused me to stick him at null.
As d1 ended though, he called out Gar as scum because he made a poor case vs Lap and Perf. Lap's behavior at end of d1, and vote of Gar, made me move Lap to town. Though I'm townreading Lap's play currently, but my reads aren't perfect - if Lap is still alive into LyLo, I want folks to pay close attention to him and use their discretion. My previous sentence will make much more sense later in the game

Tool – This guy's grown enormously, on me. I can't think of anyone else who does so much meta diving. He also asked for extension for a replacement to catch up, along with the combination of his other posts (reads lists included), that make me townread him

Jar – he seems to be in the right direction in collaborating with town. His meta read one me, after I called him out on it, was reasonable. I think he was reading me as null

[Performer]

Keyser, I agree I haven't done anything yet to show I am town. Give me a bit of time, I'm getting there.

While I'm reading everything, I am also going to be keeping up on the current content since I replaced in. And just a PSA for everyone: I started a new job recently that keeps me very busy so I almost never have time to post from work. I try to get here before I go to work and will definitely be here after I get home. Please be patient if you ask me a question during the day and I don't get back to you immediately.

Performer, I will let you know my thoughts and will also try to put down anything that catches my eye.

Also, going back to this in order to pick apart details. Sky you mentioned you're very occupied with a new job but you replaced into an involved mini normal. I know you just replaced in very recently but your predecessor has been scummy.

If we don't see substantial follow-up posts from you , I will have no qualms in adding my vote on you.

As you, Jar, and Keys know - I can be very vocal in my town game...an indicator of my own personal habit (I'm a firm believer in justice) as well as my alignment.

[Performer]

UNVOTE:
around page 10 now plus keeping up current posts

So far in my read through the big thing I'm seeing is Keyser is so town it hurts. My first impression of Ari is town, but I need to see more to be sure. Lapsa is posting like he did in the last game I played with him and he was town there so for now he's town. His playstyle is very cryptic to me which makes it hard for me to read him. Performer is playing more like he did in the 2nd day of the last (only?) game I had with him. I'm getting mixed feelings about him so far as to whether he is town or scum.

Zulfy is hitting my scumdar. This is more gut at this point. Most everyone else hasn't made much of an impression on me.

I thought Sky would've caught up on all pages by now rather than just page 10 and keeping up with the most recent new posts. Hmm. On one hand that's cool that she told us her thoughts and she caught up, but she hasn't caught up fully, which could mean she wants to use this as wiggle room for her excuse in case she doesn't put up a vote today.

Fairly certain about Keyser being scum. Pretty weak scumread on Trivium, I guess. Need to see more from that slot.

So far in my read through the big thing I'm seeing is Keyser is so town it hurts.

I find the differences between these 2 replacement
entrances interesting. Not sure what to make of it. Granted, I believe AP had only read 3 pages while Sky has read 10.

So...Ang - scumreading Keys? Is Ang scumreading anyone else?
So...Sky scumreading Zulf, townreading Keys (though she's only up to page 10)

[Performer]

@Zulf I don't see how I'm looking "mighty shifty"

[Performer]

excuse me while I pop in 10 Vitamin D pills and sit on the toilet to ponder about that absurdly odd remark from Zulf!

[Performer]

Spoiler:

I have to admit, Keyser's image posts are awesome LOL

-----

My question to Zulf:

you're scumreading Keys because he was analyzing the wagon on Tri & Gray?

His reply:

As I told Aris, if you'd like to discuss any of the points I made in that post feel free to do so

i take that as a yes

noted

[Performer]

@Keys my updated reads list moved Ari from scum to null, as I clearly stated in that reads list. I also clearly put down that you moved from town to null. I highlighted and stated that certain should be kept an eye on, not just those I thought are scum.

I'm not doing an OMGUS reaction for moving you to another section of my reads
it's because you said you scumread you, I asked why, then you never give me a straight answer

[Performer]

ebwop: "because you said you scumread me"

[Performer]

Zulf's 372 spoke of him being interested in Ari, and on the same day he asked mak what he thought about Ari.
Zulf's 555 regards 4 viable lynch candidates when 2 of them flipped investigative roles, 1 of them is town, and the other...wow. Does this actually mean Gar is town??

On d2, Zulf's votes consisted of voting mak, unvoting, voting Lap, unvoting, voting Lap again, unvoting, voting Skybird (mak's replacement). Just an observation, not sure what to make of it currently.

Deadline's coming, I don't see the harm in adding my vote to the suspected Skybird.
UNVOTE: Constant
VOTE: Skybird

I believe this is L-1.

[Performer]

@Lap in your 1092 reply to Zulf, what is ugly about Zulf's post addressing you?

-----
can I add that my scumread on Ang just skyrocketed
because he thinks SF weather is the same year-round

>: \

[Performer]

@Ang my scumread on you is because of this:
Page 24 interactions between Gar & you . Your defending of Gar's call for the Cop investigation on him. Him directing an investigation is outrageous if he is really town, since that's a waste of town power.
So you going on to defend Gar's for that, that was outlandish
I believe you addressed it but I am not convinced so far

[Performer]

Could we wait like one day before you decide whether you want to hammer? Because I'm starting to have some doubts that the mak/sky slot is scum and have a little more work left I want to do.

Is this only because of your meta dive on mak and Sky??

It's weird. I feel more like Constantine is scum than Sky, but I trust the initial makeup of the Sky wagon more than I trust the initial makeup of the Constantine wagon.

Tool….why do you trust the wagon on Sky more than Constantine? What in the world?

I support a Sky claim before we get too close to deadline. Even if I decide to vote Constantine there's a good chance Sky gets hammered

You derailed the L-1 and we had to get it going again. Also, Sky didn't bother to claim while she is at L-1.
-----

Performer,

We've played what, one game together? Why are you scum reading me based on your expectations versus what I normally do?

So now you're scumreading me & Zulf because you’d vote me for fake-stating that you fake claimed? Didn’t I already address that I was testing you on this? Your entrance was promising but your later posts don't move me to change my read on you.


@Gim what would you have suggested? When I'm town, Sky can attest that I’m not averse to pulling off gambits of any sort.

[Performer]

Zulf's 372 spoke of him being interested in Ari, and on the same day he asked mak what he thought about Ari.
Zulf's 555 regards 4 viable lynch candidates when 2 of them flipped investigative roles, 1 of them is town, and the other...wow. Does this actually mean Gar is town??

Sky you should re-read my recent reads list about why I scumread you.
On top of that, my 1089 post above is regarding Zulf & you.

You scumread Zulf and I, but you strongly prefer I get lynched.
Zulf 's d1 post above wanted to lynch 4 people when 2 of them flipped town, 1 of them is town, so now I'm not too comfortable with Constant getting lynched today until more information to better discern his alignment. He mentioned he was VT, and we could take that claim alone to mean he's either faction, but add that to the interactions with other people like Zulf's post regarding Constant, and that's making me less comfortable getting Constant lynched today.
-----

Unofficial VC 1.1

[L-1] Skybird (5)- JarJarDrinks, Keyser Soze, Zulfy, Performer, Gimlear
[L-2] St Constantine the Hermit (4)- Aristophanes, toolenduso, Lapsa, Skybird

Not Voting (2)- St Constantine the Hermit, AngryPidgeon

------
I'm putting Ang's follow-up post regarding me about his defense of Gar calling for investigation, on the table for now. I don't want to keep addressing that on d2 as it feels like it's getting us in circles rather than moving us forward.

[Performer]

@tool or anyone else: anyone ever play with Sky scum before?

[Performer]

Well obviously I prefer a Constantine lynch to myself.

I don't see why it's so obvious for you to prefer it. What are

your

reasons?

[Performer]

Constant, if you really are VT, I hope you can provide more of your thoughts. I understand it's not your playstyle to post much but come on, man. Help us out here with your thoughts.
Though I found out interesting information regarding you, I am constantly fighting every fiber to vote you because of the things your predecessor did on d1.

[Performer]

toolend....what is your take on that slot WITHOUT the meta dive. Is meta diving the main way you read people?....

[Performer]

Btw I think 1 of us is dying tonight , tool. : (

[Performer]

Well obviously I prefer a Constantine lynch to myself.

I don't see why it's so obvious for you to prefer it.

Really?

It's looking like she's bandwagoning as scum would do.

[Performer]

sheeping*

[Performer]

Btw I think 1 of us is dying tonight , tool. : (

O_o

I'm sure Keyser will provide the appropriate gif to respond to this.

If he does, I might just fork some money into shipping over a chocolate cake as a token of my appreciation. Lol

[Performer]

I think Sky is scum too perf. My point is that any player, regardless of alignment, would prefer not to get lynched cause it goes against their wincon.

Yes but that's basic play. I'm trying to challenge her to perform at higher town play rather than just voting someone else out of nowhere.

[Performer]

Literally all she says in that post is she prefers him over her. Then she says she most strongly prefers me. And that's it.

[Performer]

@tool what do you think about Zulf asking that slot what he thought about Aris? And later Zulf posting about being ok with me/Gar/Tri/Gray being lynched?
3/4 of those in Zulf's list, are town. I'm getting the vibe that Gar could be town and was just playing horribly on d1.

[Performer]

Gar could be town too*

[Performer]

@Jar Sky voted Constant without reasons, ok - anyone would do that, that's like saying I'm male.

The fact that I'm pushing on her to elaborate and that people have asked for a claim, and she's not responding in a town manner...
well. That's not looking Townie.

[Performer]

Two of four, good sir. I don't know that you're town. And being wrong does not mean being scum. I've listed reasons Zulfy looks town to me.

being wrong doesn't mean scum, true
I was asking because I don't recall anyone addressing that I pointed that out
I'm doing as much as I can because when someone adds me to a list that they want me lynched when I'm town, and 2 already flipped, then that last 1 remaining, could be town - death analysis and attempting to tie in connections


Zulf I've been having a tough time reading as I mentioned earlier, because he's not standing out as scum to me.

[Performer]

Lapsa absolutely needs to be the lynch tomorrow. I feel like his ISO practically confirms him as scum now. If I die then don't let him WIFOM his way out of a lynch saying that I was killed to frame him. If Lapsa truly was town then they probably would have left me alive to lead a mislynch.

The Garmr slot is probably town and it being a counterwagon to Skybird is makes the voters on that one more suspect.

I really like this observation.
-----
And Sky...I have to say, you gave me a good laugh with your posts . Let me get this straight.

Triv was nked and turned out to be our Cop->I reaction tested you by fake-stating you fake-claimed Cop->you claim that I'm "stretching" to accuse you when I already posted why I'm voting you...and you said you're not wanting to vote me, when you said in a post that you'd be fine with a Perf lynch today? Contradictory. Then you suddenly follow-up to my post by saying you are voting Constant without reason? Lol->later you claim Cop and that you invested Gim to be innocent...which is outlandish considering the events that already occurred->Keys throws more guilt on me with a post->Keys unvotes you with, at this point, what I can consider to be a completely forced defense of you

-----
@Ang I'm not trying to be impolite but I'm not going to answer your question of why I'm afraid I may die tonight

[Performer]

@tool just a second, I'll follow-up on your question

@Keys your image posts continue to bring a laugh to me lol!

[Performer]

heard today that pidgeon is like awarded mafia super player or something along those lines

Has anyone seen this on the site? Is this true? lol

There is something incredibly odd about Performer. Especially his one sided tendencies in regards to my slot.

Him and Lapsa are probably scum together. Not completely confident.

One-sided??
I haven't been death tunneling you. I haven't only been focusing on you. If anything, I probably tunneled your slot a bit but not without good reason.

@Skybird - are you the 3-shot Town Cop?

what is the point of this question
if Antihero was here....

Uh where did Keyser defend skybird? All he said was that he wanted to do an analysis, which I took to mean he wanted to look for possible partners.

In his most recent post, he UNVOTED and was about to put up a follow-up post for Sky, when we're this close to deadline. Considering the scenario we're in, I'm going ahead to say he is trying to defend that slot.

I want it on record that I'm ok with the Sky lynch, after all that's been said for d2.

[Performer]

Eh...yeah it looks more to me like Keyser just wants to take time to examine things before we go to night in the hopes of finding a partner or two of sky.

Hmm I see.

I don't think it's possible at all for 2 town Cops to be in a 13-man game. I have never seen more than 1 Cop. 1 Cop and Backup Cop, yes. Town Cop and Mafia Vanilla Cop, I think I've seen that. But 2 town Cops and a Town Follower? I don't think so.

[Performer]

The fact that Keys is going to bat for Sky, is making me incredibly suspicious of him!!!!

after all the interactions about Sky
you are still not convinced???

[Performer]

@Constant what you're saying after the hammer, is just unbelievably awful. With the information we've portrayed, looking at the vote counts, night kill analysis, and interactions, you call us terrible and vote me.

Anyone who's town should have no regrets that this happened, based on what's happened so far. We did our very best. If your illogically hurt about hammering a so-called Cop when our Cop already died, then you need to pay attention more or something.

[Performer]

@Zulf ok?....based off of what? There are many things to discuss and this is your first post on d3??

[Performer]

OK guys, I'm a cop. Performer you thought my reaction was weird, it's because I seriously thought my predecessor had claimed. He investigated Grimlear N1 and he is town.

There are some interesting things about what happened d2, one of them being this: Sky stating she investigated Gim and him being innocent, yet Sky was scum.

a. I played in one game before where scum claimed Cop on d1, accused me of guilty on d2, and we proceeded to turbo lynch him because we figured he was outright lying.
I'm wondering if that's the same situation here regarding Gim - that he is teamed with Sky. That would make sense for him to have bussed Sky after she stated that post.

b. The only other conclusion I have is that Sky was setting Gim up for mislynch. She stated he's innocent, we suspect she's covering for him, and we mislynch him.

So only one of the above cases is plausible, I'm wondering if others can provide their thoughts on this.

[Performer]

Then there's the behavior surrounding Constant.

End of d3, Sky votes Constant but prefers me being lynched
Constant unvotes Sky, then votes me
Sky flipped as scum

If we combine that with what Zulf mentioned about his 4-man list from d1, I wondering if this could clear Constant of being guilty, for the moment.

@tool haven't caught up with your big post yet, will read that in a bit

@host can we get an updated vote count for end of d2? It doesn't look updated

[Performer]

I do think that's what sky was doing, trying to set up an associative with gimlear. Mak voting gim right out of the gate on D2 just seems a little weird for a partner.

Maybe if they had a designed bus idk...I just don't know why scum would feel like they had to bus coming into D2. They had two town PR kills in their pocket, why not just go for the sweep?

I have two theories for this. One - Keys was on the right track and/or someone knows he's a great town analyst.
The other theory is they are a lousy scum team.


Planning to analyze Gim & Sky's ISOs to see if I can come up with anything.
Planning to ISO Keys for further night kill analysis.
Going to review vote counts and do a bit of VCA as well.

[Performer]

I mean I think it's gonna be inherently WIFOMy to guess at why they killed Keyser:

-He had scum pegged and they wanted to get rid of him.
-He didn't have scum pegged and they wanted to make town think he did so they would lynch Keyser's scumreads.
-They had a PR read on Keyser.
-They wanted to build a coal-fired power plant and needed Captain Planet out of the picture.

How come you're stating they had a PR read on Keys? How is that even possible?

Lol Captain Planet
Good icon though
-----
@Keys I can't believe that in your entirety of 5 games on this site, you have never been mafia scum LOL. Wow. You will be missed....wish you were still around!

[Performer]

I mean I think it's gonna be inherently WIFOMy to guess at why they killed Keyser:

-He had scum pegged and they wanted to get rid of him.
-He didn't have scum pegged and they wanted to make town think he did so they would lynch Keyser's scumreads.
-They had a PR read on Keyser.
-They wanted to build a coal-fired power plant and needed Captain Planet out of the picture.

How come you're stating they had a PR read on Keys? How is that even possible?

Lol Captain Planet
Good icon though
-----
@Keys I can't believe that in your entirety of 5 games on this site, you have never been mafia scum LOL. Wow. You will be missed....wish you were still around!

[Performer]

@tool I was soft claiming Bg? What in the world....?
Just finished going through your reads list, and I have a few thoughts to add on regarding Ari.

[Performer]

Did...we just lynch a cop?

I just...
That's not something we should do on D2.
That's stupid.

I can't even right now.

Oh yeah, this is the game we had that flip in.

Sorry, it's been a long day.

Because Sky is Mak, that makes it all make more sense.

I just got lynched in a couple games, I will give this more focus now.
My bad man.

D2's ending with his posts...can't tell if this was genuine from him or he was trying to stir chaos. This does remind me of when he unvoted Tri because he didn't want to risk killing him after he claimed Cop on d1, but he didn't provide the same caution for Gray after he claimed Follower, even going so far to asking someone to hammer him (see below 2 posts for reference).

Lapsa, we have under an hour left. Can you hammer please!
The follower crumbs are not enough that I think this wagon should stop and I'd rather it over a NL.

I agree Garmr needs attention, but now is not the time

i do understand your strategy of pouring honey all over your chest,
but asking for wasted investigative action on town is off-limits

yes yes so you admitted I'm town and slipped up. My work here is done.

How about tomorrow we make this game about scum hunting not dick measuring.

I just read thus whole page and we need one of you to hammer! Like, holy shit this is making me unsettled!

[Performer]

VOTE: Aristophanes
Going to leave my vote on him at the moment.

[Performer]

@Pidgeon in that post, I meant that I played a game where scum fake-claimed Cop, then supposedly investigated me overnight (I was Town Doctor that game), on the next day they claimed I was guilty. So town proceeded to quick lynch him after some excellent detective work.

I was wondering if that situation could apply here, in the case that Sky was lying about Gim being innocent when Gim was actually guilty. I was wondering what others thought and so far I saw you and tool addressed it. I haven't looked through Gim and MakSky interactions yet, that will take some time later.

[Performer]

@Pidgeon my 1247 was summarizing that bad play from the Constant slot =/= scum
On top of that, Sky preferring I get lynched but voting Constant

Through this game, that slot is looking like mislynch central.

[Performer]

@tool not sure what happened, it double posted on me in my question to you about Keys. The site was malfunctioning.

[Performer]

@tool I was soft claiming Bg? What in the world....?

OK then. Just going to drop this.

Please do.

[Performer]

@Pidgeon my 1247 was summarizing that bad play from the Constant slot =/= scum
On top of that, Sky preferring I get lynched but voting Constant

Through this game, that slot is looking like mislynch central.

I agree that Constantine looks like ML bait (and god Im going to feel stupid when he flips scum ). I don't get why Sky preferring you but voting Constantine means much though. It would have been suspicious for Sky to NOT vote the leading counterwagon at that point. I certainly would have, my alignment aside, if I replaced into a slotb near deadline where the only wagons are me and one other person.

Well...players like Constant (he admitted this himself) don't look like they post much. So it's going to be like pulling wisdom teeth to work with him until the end.

[Performer]

So I'm getting a little antsy waiting on the updated vote count from end of d2, so I did my best in gathering the data , shown below:
------
Skybird (8)- JarJarDrinks, Keyser Soze, Zulfy, Performer, Giimlear, Pidgeon, tool, Lap
St Constantine the Hermit (2)- Aristophanes, Skybird
Perf (1) - Constant

[Performer]

Going by the d2 vote count from 1272 , my ISO on Gim , MakSky, and Ari, I think it's safe to form a wagon on Ari.
-----
A few other things:

D1: Gim adds his vote on Blue. His 484 interaction with Ari regarding mak, questioned Ari on why he read makara as town, why that is alignment indicative.

D2: mak’s updated 691 reads list about me , Lap, and Gim being scum – I can safely say I can townlean Lap & Gim because of that post from mak.
Sky mentioned she was gut-scumreading Zulf in 1073, so I can townlean Zulf for now.

-----
Page 23 interaction between Gar and Tri, is looking more to me like extremely frustrated VT.
-----
@tool my fault , here's the corrected update on that vote count:

Skybird (7)- JarJarDrinks, Zulfy, Performer, Giimlear, Pidgeon, tool, Lap
St Constantine the Hermit (2)- Aristophanes, Skybird
Perf (1) - Constant
not voting (1) - Keys

[Performer]

I think scum is in Keyser, Skybird, Performer, Lapsa, Gimlear.

Pidgeon, I'm curious. Do you have any changes to this list?

[Performer]

Anyone see Constant? Haven't seen him since d2.

@mod can you change the game title, as it still says "Day 2"...

[Performer]

And Aris, sorta.

What's with this keeping one foot on each side of the border kind of talk?

Good God child you're still on that? Context Perf. Those were our lynch candidates as the D1 deadline approached.

You're either using weak AtE as scum or this is a poor town post.
I was using what was said, and things that're mentioned, as long as vote counts, are crucial. I'm not going to scumread someone based off of a ton of assumptions, for example.

[Performer]

ebwop:
I was using what was mentioned, as well as vote counts - both crucial. I'm not going to scumread someone based off of a ton of assumptions, for example.

[Performer]

tryinging to figure out who's the cool kid

what do you mean by this

@Pidgeon lol. Taking out wisdom teeth is a terror

[Performer]

Spoiler: @Pidgeon

Also I just got a job offer, woooo. Interviewing sucks. Kind of. Hopefully no more though.

Congrats! Interviewing sometimes is terrible but there's always the bright side of it - we're interviewing the company as much as they're interviewing us.
I just finished an interview yesterday and I got hired as an extern at a great site!

And seriously, please share what information you have on Performer.

I don't have like an investigation result on him if that's what you're thinking.

You're acting like you know something or at least figured out something. Something that makes you trust him more than you did yesterday. Don't make this a game of 20 questions.

So let me get this right. Tool was townreading me on d2, was townreading me on d3, then you inquire why he is, he says he can't say, and you continue to inquire him with "trust him more than you did yesterday." I thought he's townreading me the same? How is he trusting me more than he did yesterday?...

[Performer]

Zulf, how come Ari isn't your top scumread and somehow tool is??

[Performer]

I will admit that for the first time, I got nervous about tool when seeing how he did so much ISO diving during the night phase. I feel like he should have expected that he may have been getting killed.

I stopped thinking I would be the night kill after sky claimed cop following my push to lynch const instead.

I don't follow you on this. This...is confusing.

[Performer]

@Zulf I'd be more than glad to help but I am having a next-to-impossible time scumreading tool : /

[Performer]

@Jar I see

@mod is the deadline on hold? That deadline had the same message for awhile

I'm looking forward to the replacement's input as it seems clear to me Constant has given up on this game, just like what he did in the 20+ large normal I replaced him in, which was a VT slot.

[Performer]

In the meantime, Ari is still looking the same to me.

-----

I think we can safely say it is unlikely Perf is scum and strongly unlikely AP is scum based on them.

Going by Makara's 2 readslists, I'd argue there is scum between Zulfy, Garmr (Const), and Lapsa.
Also scum between Gimlear and JarJar, and Perf.

You said it' unlikely that I'm scum and then you said there's scum between 2 others and I.

Neither Gim or JarJar seem quite right, and I still have a townread on JarJar.

And this part about Jar, who doesn't "seem quite right" (What does that really mean?), yet Ari has a townread on Jar.

[Performer]

Well they almost make it too easy. I had fingered a possible scum association between Gimlear and Lapsa yesterday. I am almost never wrong when you have those lame openly admitted to be poor justifications for a vote, like @toolendduso pointed out.

Wow, overreaction much. All I was doing was stimulating conversation, but your responses sound like squirmy scum.

To be clear, I am ok with lynching Aris, but I don't want to put him at L-1 yet since we have time for discussion. I don't know what to make of the Zulfy sheep, but for now that doesn't change my read of him.

@tool: I was saying the progression of his posts looks scummy because he immediately busses makara (who we know now is scum) without justification. He then shows that he hasn't read the thread at all, meaning any arguments of scum not needing to bus on day 2 are moot when talking about Constantine.

How is that an overreaction from Constant? Lol
Your continued mention of time for discussion, regarding Ari, is getting disturbing. It's the d3 midpoint and you still have him at null?

I'm still scumreading Ari but seeing the interactions on the page 55-56 between Gim and Constant, as well as what happened to Constant, make me no longer townread Gimlear.

My 1265 regarding the Constant slot, page 23 interaction between Gar and Tri (looks like extremely frustrated VT), Sky’s entrance and reasoning for jumping onto the Constant bandwagon, as well as the interactions on page 55-56 regarding Constant, make me continue townreading that slot.

I still townread tool. His actions may be weird, but I don't see them coming from scum either. And if that's the case, I kinda trust Performer a bit more as well (begrudgingly).
"Kinda trust Performer a bit more" but only "begrudgingly."

I have already said my piece about AP. I'm curious what others think.

keeping your feet on each side of the border despite it being d3

VOTE: Gimlear

Ang you told me you were scumreading Gim. Help us on this wagon.

[Performer]

And I'm not sure what's stranger. Zulf's vote of tool or Lapsa voting Jar...come on , folks.
Zulf , are you townreading Gimlear?

[Performer]

the posts on this page are just too funny
i'm not even going to begin with Lapsa
i am, however, to see people's interactions regarding what just happened regarding his post

[Performer]

and of course, I can't type.
ebwop: "i am, however, eager to see people's interactions regarding what just happened regarding his post"

[Performer]

i saw you voted Jar, then you unvoted. Lapsa, who's your new scumread and how come?

[Performer]

excuse me while i put other things on hold from page 56, proceed to bash my head in a brick wall
and ask tool the elephant-in-the-room question, which no one (WOW) has asked:

did Lapsa really recruit you

i think everyone in this particular game
has to read up on PR 101

[Performer]

@mod can we get an updated vote count with a fixed deadline? Thanks

Proceeding to address several things in the upcoming posts.

[Performer]

This is so stupid. Of course they got neighbored by Lapsa. Why in the worlds would Lapsa lie?

Jar , why would you assume this was automatically true that Lap neighborized us? I'm going to do a breakdown on Lapsa's deceit so you can see for yourself.
-----

i claim town neighborizer

on N1 i recruited performer
wanted to get a better read on him and found it ironic because Garmr posts of our hidden connection

on N2 i recruited toolenduso
recruited obvtown to amass hood townies

1. Lapsa claimed without pressure, claimed without information on scum, and he's even lying about the rest of that post above - did not recruit tool and sure as hell isn't the Neighborizer, as I was not recruited to anything.
2.

I

am the Town 1-shot Neighborizer. Here are how things happened: like I've been publicly posting, I was townreading Lap because of the how the Garm slot interacted with Gray at end of d1. At the end of d1, Lap voted Garm to get town credit. However, the public posts from him on d3, as well as Lapsa's posts in my private neighborizer thread with him, have been moving me to gradually scumlean him.

Regarding Pidgeon: Pidgeon voted Sky on d2. In my neighborizer PT, Lapsa asked me about recruiting Pidgeon on night 3 (he still thought I was unlimited Town Neighborizer). He stated that Pidgeon's "experience could get us out of trouble." I have a theory about the real reason why Lapsa asked me to neighborize Pidgeon. He wanted V/LA for 7 days until 11/28. This is the 1st time I saw anyone ask for such a huge length of V/LA. I'd imagine that would work so conveniently for Pidgeon to lurk. He added he thought Zulfy was also a good recruit but he trusted Pidgeon more.

He also wanted to perform a fake claim to "protect us," which at the time, I replied back in the PT along the lines of "this is completely absurd." This is why we saw his fake claim of the very specific Neighborizer claim, from Lapsa. I told him that if the circumstances permitted, I'd claim but if not, I could wait for d4 to claim. He then had the gall to tell me he didn't think me claiming was a good idea. Scum tell.

Some other things he brought up in the PT:
-Was scumreading Ari because his main problem with him is he seems extremely low on content
-He claimed VT. I'm sure that's a fake claim too
-He was uncertain on whether Constant was scum or town

VOTE: Lapsa
------
Lapsa you played an extremely dangerous game, to think you can outplay a PR with a fake claim. You messed with the wrong person!

[Performer]

@Constant:
End of d2, Sky votes Constant but prefers me being lynched
Constant unvotes Sky, then votes me
Sky flipped as scum

I'm still confused by your behavior above, at the end of d2. Please elaborate.

[Performer]

@tool even though I wanted to see reactions, it didn't mean I could jump in with a few things to post

[Performer]

The folks I am most townleaning on are tool, Jar, and Constant.

[Performer]

I indeed was townreading Lapsa on end of d1, but after all that's happened, I'd chalk it up to awful play from Garm and you are actually not town, Lapsa.
I think of the future and I've run the scenario in my head over and over, in the case that you did pull this stunt. There's no way you could be town if you did, and behold, you did pull this stunt.

Pidgeon, I know you're limited access but if you're truly town, we need you to vote Lapsa.

1. I recruited Lapsa on n1, townreading him
2. I was also aware that he could not be confirmed town
3. therefore on d2, I made a post with a reads list, hinting at looking at Lapsa in case he's left into LyLo. This was due to point 2. You can find that post here: 1068

if Lap is still alive into LyLo, I want folks to pay close attention to him and use their discretion. My previous sentence will make much more sense later in the game

4. Lapsa suggested the fake claim strategy in my PT, on n2
5. I tell him it's horrid and not to do it
6. I would do it if needed
7. on d3, I voted Aris, then Gim
8. Lapsa fake claimed Neighborizer along with a bunch of other lies
9. I reveal my role and vote him
10. this is an excellent situation because it's now 1 town for 1 scum

compare these points of reasoning to what Lapsa did with his fake claiming. I strongly suggest re-reading my posts if you guys are still confused
-----
@Jar I do see why you would wonder, in your 1468 post . But I asked myself probably a thousand times, why would town make gambit of this magnitude. It makes no sense. It's like saying I can't trust my brother with my car to a store that's less than a mile away, despite him being a seasoned, safe ambulance driver.

and remember when I said I came a very long way in my town game, from that newbie game? I am not kidding in the least.
Have faith in me. I'm going to help avenge the fallen PRs.

[Performer]

Dude Lapsa...
when on earth does person A want to fake claim a PR's claim
when the actual PR explicitly stated it's not a good idea
and then person A said he'll STILL do it
and here we are, you did exactly that, you fake claimed my claim. I'm the real 1-shot Town Neighborizer. You asked me to recruit an extra person (suggested, recommended...semantics), and I didn't answer you directly. Because I knew I could further discern your alignment later on if you slipped , which you did. You claimed to have recruited me (outright lie) AND a second recruit into the neighborhood (toolenduso, which was also an outright lie).

[Performer]

You're not really answering my question. Just stating a bunch of facts. WHY would he lie, knowing that you and tool would call him out?

I think he's trying to stir up chaos with this and get ME or someone else lynched.
It's interesting that he pulled this after I voted Aris, then Gim today.

[Performer]

Jar, my scum game is nothing close being as involved as I am in my town game. Remember my Town Doctor game you were with me in? This is a similar situation.

[Performer]

I'm going to eat breakfast and check back on this later.

[Performer]

@Pidgeon thank you for glorifying my claim, as I felt less-than-glorious the entire game LOL

[Performer]

Whether it's my Town Mailman role in the Warcraft themed game, someone claiming Backup Bulletproof in a large game, Lapsa's completely unbelievable fake claim, my 1-shot Town Neighborizer role, a 2-shot Bulletproof Bodyguard, 1-shot Bulletproof Doctor, or 2-man scum team consisting of a Backup Mafia Vigilante and a Mafia Vigilante who can perform 2 kills a night...I've seen some insane things on FM.

[Performer]

Lapsa lol. You give me quite a laugh. Without chaos, the game is doomed to stagnate?? Surely if you were town, you must've thought that your fake claim in a post like that, where you stated you neighborized TWICE (not a normal move), and one of those times was tool - who denied getting neighborized...surely you must've thought about this strategy on n3 and thought, "this fake claim is not going to work and I best leave the claim to the actual PR to handle."

WHY??? - wasn't const on the verge of getting lynched when lapsa made his Gambit? The only motivation I can see for the Lapsa lie is a Const/Lapsa scumteam. Nothing else really makes sense for a motive.

I don't know the vote count pertaining to Constant. I seem to recall Zulf & Lapsa voted Constant on d3; on d2, Sky voted Constant because she just wanted to survive and have someone else get lynched, which I read as a scum reason from Sky, in a SvT case.
As for Constant, I stated why I townread him at the moment.

HOW???
- This is the more important question. How in the world could he have expected this to work? If he just lied about you, that's one thing. But he included Tool, which means the lie was destined to fail from the getgo.

Who knows why he expected this to work??? He never divulged it to me but my stance in the PT was that it was NOT a good idea so I suggested the much better case. Then he came back to it, stating that he would stick to his strategy. At that point, I was just

No matter how I slice it from any alignment, it's a terrible gambit, possibly the worst I've seen in FM. In this case, it's a scum sign.

[Performer]

note: I'm catching up on a lot of posts

[Performer]

So, how is Tool involved? Something happened with him and Performer last night, and if it was being neighborized, then what?

@Gim .....

NEITHER of us were neighborized by Lapsa

->I<- did the neighborizing

[Performer]

did I tell you I love you, Pidgeon
I fully support his idea for mass claim

[Performer]

As for breadcrumbs, I left a few of them throughout the game.

1. In my reply to tool to stop inquiring about me softing Bg
2.

@Ang I'm not trying to be impolite but I'm not going to answer your question of why I'm afraid I may die tonight

This happened after n1 when I neighborized Lapsa - I still thought of the possibility of Lapsa being scum and he knew I was town. And scum would want to kill town.
3. When I made the reads list pertaining to watching out for Lapsa if he's still around in LyLo
-----
@Jar can you answer my question in 1452?

[Performer]

You'd supposedly know the answer to that. So why ask it?

To further discern whether or not tool is teamed with Lap. If they were teamed, he would respond with a fabricated response and I'd go from there.

Despite all the evidence and analyses from me and various folks, it's

very interesting

to see tool still hasn't voted Lapsa.
It's also confusing that he thinks we're bewildered, when things clearly point to Lapsa being the s word. : /
-----
@Pidgeon I don't think you should bet something as serious as your bank account info on anything LOL. Maybe bet like $5 or 5 cents or something (do people even use coins anymore?)

[Performer]

Spoiler: off topic @Pidgeon

You must be talking about BBMolla's game... I reviewed that one for him early on, lol. So you can blame me for allowing that one into your life.

WOW LOL.

on one hand it was an extremely creative setup, hence a very rewarding experience
on the other hand I wanted to carve "why the torture!?" into the area under my imaginary third nipple

[Performer]

Yo Perf how's about you answer

me

?

Oh damn...what did I miss??

[Performer]

and he knew I was town

hey, be gentle! that's a misrepresentation. townreading != knowing

if i were scum - would just kill you when timing's appropriate

since i'm town - i'm trying to get a read on you with weapons available

you're making the most ambiguous posts...

[Performer]

I breadcrumbed in a way that would solidify my PR claim in the future, in case people have a tough time, as obviously there are - Jar and tool.
I don't breadcrumb so badly that people would pick up on it and kill me at night, however.

[Performer]

Iirc Constant stated he was VT in d2?

[Performer]

Anybody could say that tho

Oh no, I sure do hope I don't die tonight.

Am I confirmed town now, Tool?

Pedit: We're getting there, don't you think?

Are you literally reading any of my posts regarding Lapsa? It doesn't look like you are.
Or maybe you are, and you're scum.

[Performer]

@Zulf check my 1452 and 1470

@Jar wow. Automatically assume that he neighborized us??? Maybe it's an experience thing but when scum perform complex fake claims after d1, we don't just sit around and assume the truth.

-_- I'm probably going to get a breather from this particular game for the rest of today.

I don't see my vote going anywhere else for the remainder of d3, as I've made myself clear as a cloudless day about the Lapsa situation.

[Performer]

Anybody could say that tho

Oh no, I sure do hope I don't die tonight.

Am I confirmed town now, Tool?

Pedit: We're getting there, don't you think?

Are you literally reading any of my posts regarding Lapsa? It doesn't look like you are.
Or maybe you are, and you're scum.

Did my post have anything to do with your reply or were you just incredulous to me not responding to your interaction with Lapsa?

You've been repeatedly posting that you have a hard time understanding how Lapsa is scum, while I repeatedly posted clear points to why he is.

I'm with JJD here. I think Constantine comes out looking the worst out of everyone in all this. I was already pretty confident in my scum read of him even before this mess happened.

I will refrain from claiming for now, but I am not against a mass claim today or in day 4.

Also, how likely is a 4 or even 5 man scum team with this size of a game?

This is why I keep scumreading Gim.
Your question about anything over 3-man scum team in a Normal Game, is impossible at this point of the game. We have 3 PRs so far, 1 Mafia Rolecop, Lap fake claimed VT, Constant & Pidgeon claimed VT. None of those setup details add up to a scum team of 4 or more.
On top of that, Pidgeon and I advocated for a mass claim already. You mentioning that you're holding back from claiming BUT you're not against it, is more evidence of you stepping on both sides of the border. The continued indecision - it's scummy.

VOTE: Const

obvious vote is obvious.

Const knew that Lapsa lied and he refuses answer how he inferred it. ("it's just a skill that you pickup" isn't an answer). He's most likely scum w/ Lapsa or scum w/ Performer (or possibly w/ Tool but I doubt it). In either case, he's a better lynch then those guys and the game is probably close to over.

Constant stated that he could tell Lapsa was lying.
You stated you could tell Lapsa could not be lying. And the part where you stated the "game is probably close to over"...no it's not. Jar, how many non-newbie games have you played? Serious question.

[Performer]

I really don't get why people want Constant lynched when Lapsa clearly did the scummiest fake-claim post of the century. Like Constant already iterated, this is insane.

[Performer]

Would also like to hear from Performer whether Lapsa is telling the truth about what he said in the neighborhood.

See below from my 1452 and 1470 posts:

4. Lapsa suggested the fake claim strategy in my PT, on n2
5. I tell him it's horrid and not to do it
6. I would do it if needed
7. on d3, I voted Aris, then Gim
8. Lapsa fake claimed Neighborizer along with a bunch of other lies
9. I reveal my role and vote him

1. Lapsa claimed without pressure, claimed without information on scum, and he's even lying about the rest of that post above - did not recruit tool and sure as hell isn't the Neighborizer, as I was not recruited to anything.
2. I am the Town 1-shot Neighborizer.

[Performer]

Lapsa and performers reads are eriely similar with little reasoning is there like a

neighborhood

or something I'm not aware of otherwise they seem to be a little to much in sync.

whoa...

@Zulfy: Basically, I am not opposed to mass claiming today, but I feel like we're better of lynching Constantine today and then mass claiming tomorrow. It gives scum one more night where they're not sure where the PRs are.

That is interesting that Garmr picked up on a possible connection between Lapsa and Performer in day 1. It could be that Garmr knew who the neighborizer was and was setting up crumbs, or it could just be pointing to the reason why Performer neighborized lapsa in the first place.

tool and Gim need to stop contemplating about Garm talking about a neighborhood in d1. There's no point to it. There's no way anybody could've known about my role other than me, before d2.

Flipping VT. If there any cops don't bother with Performer anymore. Target Tool. Should be fine as long as these other idiots like Gimlear, Zulfy, and Lapsa don't stay alive for being "too stupid for scum"

The confusion caused by you not reading what happened, before you replaced in, is not helping us move along.

[Performer]

Yes.

The fake claim you did at that level of deceit, after what we discussed in my PT, was a scum claim that can't be ignored.

[Performer]

@Performer: That has nothing to do with your read of Constantine. That information was not available to Constantine when he made his initial accusation of lapsa lying.

Also, why are you scum reading me for asking a legitimate question about the likelihood of game makeups? You're giving Constantine a pass for not reading the game that we're in, but somehow I get scum read for asking a simple question?

I scumread you because it looks like you're on the peripheral .
I was scumreading the Constant slot in d2 but my read on him gradually changed with his posts.

Folks...it's simple. We got a fake claim yesterday from a supposed Cop (Skybird). We lynched her and she flipped mafia.
We got a fake claim today from a supposed Neighborizer (Lapsa). We lynch him.
Why would I push so hard for this lynch when I've been head over heels about treating our PRs as precious cargo?? It's because I'm certain his lies mean he's scum.

[Performer]

Ebwop: Gimlear, I'm scumreading you because of my 1382. However, the scumread on Lapsa is strongest ever since his fake claim post.

[Performer]

Re Lapsa/Perf team: I would not be surprised really.

Oh I meant Lapsa/Aris here. In the context of Lapsa starting a bunch of crap to distract people from lurker buddy Aristophanes who was getting wagoned fairly quickly.

I've been getting the sense that Ari has been gradually lurking more and more. He's one of my lynch candidates too but Lapsa is so scummy , it hurts.

[Performer]

Aris/Lapsa
Aris/???
Lapsa/Gimlear
Constantine/Tool

are roughly the likely pairings I can see here.

The Constant/tool pairing is the strangest one to me. I can't think of them being a pair.

Something else I can conclude from all this is that tool & Lapsa are very unlikely to be partners:

Since tool asked me about softing Bg in d3 and Lap knows who I am and asked me to recruit Pidgeon or Zulf…along with the interactions in pgs 56-61, I don’t believe tool and Lapsa are a scum team

@mod I will have limited to no access to FM, on Saturday

[Performer]

Spoiler: Off Topic

Ok, good to know since I'm thinking about running a closed normal soon.

Spoiler: off topic

Hehe
If I end up signing up for that
please don't put me as scum because that's my least like faction and I'm terrible at it

[Performer]

And it sounds like he didn't know you were 1 shot, so it would make sense for him to try to protect a Town PR, something that you're so keen on doing as well. Remember, Tool was hinting at you being a PR at the beginning of the day, and Lapsa's claim would have explained the Tool interaction as well, making Lapsa a likely target for a night kill instead of you.

Ok I get this logic. What worries me is that it didn't come from Lapsa and you're justifying Lapsa'a actions in place of him justifying his actions.

[Performer]

@AP: The reason I know about 1 shot modifiers being normal is because I read it on the wiki. This is only my second non newbie game (and the first was a non balanced normal), so I don't know much about game balance yet.

[Performer]

I can concur with Pidgeon's 1629 when I replaced into Constant's slot, which was VT - the Pariah's Mafia large game of over 20 people.
It seems that as town, Constant uses plenty of emotion-filled posts.

[Performer]

And it sounds like he didn't know you were 1 shot, so it would make sense for him to try to protect a Town PR, something that you're so keen on doing as well. Remember, Tool was hinting at you being a PR at the beginning of the day, and Lapsa's claim would have explained the Tool interaction as well, making Lapsa a likely target for a night kill instead of you.

Ok I get this logic. What worries me is that it didn't come from Lapsa and you're justifying Lapsa'a actions in place of him justifying his actions.

Except that he basically has said this, just in his own way.

Where??

[Performer]

Want to address this from the dead thread:

Damn. I knew this was going to be difficult based on whoever remained versus JarJar.
I don't think anyone has played with town OR scum JarJar. I only played 1 game with him when we were both town, and he played horribly as town.

I'm starting to think he likes and is better at playing scum, compared to playing town.

I actually love playing town compared to scum.


And the game we were in together was definitely my worst game on this site but I don't think you can say I played horribly.

I played for half a day phase. I replaced in and helped lead a mislynch against you. And YOU WERE SO DAMN SCUMMY that I was still immediately nightkilled. Do you think YOU played well that game?


My other 3 games here were all town and I did about as good as can be done:
- Noob game - Vanilla town. Helped lead lynches against scum day 1 and day 2
- Noob game - Cop. Helped lead lynch against scum day 1. By day 3 I had enough info to claim w/ my checks and autowin.
- Normal mini - fought against town lynch day 1. Helped lead lynches against scum day 2, day 3 and day 4



I apologize for all the ego but Perfs post struck a nerve.

Meh, I can say we both played terribly that game. It was my first game on this site. I never said I played that well in that game.

[Performer]

And Zulfy will play

Lol. Zulfy, pre-in for my mini normal!!! It's a simple setup and will be reviewed for normalcy and balance. It'll be fun . ; )