***Mini Normal 1744 - Country Music Mafia - Game Over***

[bji]

Also don't feel bad about losing, I don't blame any town for that, not even RC. This game is like super hard to figure out, I think most town wins are luck anyway and most town losses are bad luck.

[bji]

I was shitting bricks trying to think of how I was going to explain being in a three way with Acryon and FA at the end, which is where I thought the game was going.

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I thought RC's fake claim was actually OK up until he added BP into it, which RolePlay correctly pointed out was completely bogus. It was a decent gambit to draw scum out. He certainly drew me out, I even claimed my role. I think town quick hammering RC was the really bad part of that. TheCow kinda has to shoulder some of that blame.

pedit: I was going to try to argue that the hints I had been putting in place about how I would vote Acryon over FA in a three way ("Acryon is 1000x more likely than FA") were what kept me alive because FA wanted me alive in three way because those hints would suggest she'd win by getting me to vote Acryon. And then pull a switch and propose voting VA because I figured that Acryon might be more willing to trust me than FA. And I put a kinda dumb bread crumb thing in post 2684 (first letters of first two words of each sentence spell out the message) that I thought I might refer back to as supporting evidence.

[bji]

Also we had scum chat the whole time. Dwlee was encryptor. Helped alot with coordination.

pedit: yeah, your luck could not have been worse. Mario investigated the ascetic cop and we were told he was cop even though we shouldn't have been. Ascetic cop investigated the godfather. Town lynched the doctor and we lucked into a NK of the only other significant town role (Keyser).

[bji]

Well maybe not lucked in. Mario picked the NK and it was a good one.

[bji]

I like Acryon as a player, I think he is a very decent person and has fine deductive skills, maybe reading emotion could use some improvement tho? Also you bit on my silly day 1 FA-RolePlay case

I like Frozen Angel's tenacity and passion. If she didn't tunnel quite so hard on Acryon I think she would have been well on her way to figuring the game out.

Dierfire just blew me away with his deep reads, thinking so far ahead and seeing the associations that I didn't see. He always seemed to have scum in his top read or two. I think if Dierfire were here from the beginning town would have had a much better chance.

Aquanim was like Dierfire to me, only shorter lived.

RolePlay, I actually really liked him at first. Didn't like how he ended Day 2 obviously. He came right ouf of the gate pinning Dwlee and RolePlay really had me worried. I enjoyed how he started town reading me midway through Day 1 though in a very condescending "I'll tell you how to play this game when it's over" way ...

Marcrell did better than golden, had a decent entrance but kind of trailed off.

RC was ... well, what can I say. Made a big gambit that didn't pay off.

Mala, I don't know what the hell Mala was doing. Not sure why she joined the game in progress just to lurk and only get active when hitting L-1. That's weird town play.

Titus was OK, but short lived.

Keyser was the one player I really wanted to keep alive (because he is so much fun to play with. Post 244 is perhaps the most clever thing I have ever read! And there were so many other posts of his that were just awesome) but unfortunately he had to die.

Super ... you died too young.

Everyone else ... I've forgotten already. You should have played more instead of lurking.

[bji]

Mario played well and his night actions were really incredibly good. He picked our kills as well as his targets and those made a huge difference.

Dwlee ... I think he deserves big credit for the final quick hammer. He jumped on at just the right time. Really well played.

[bji]

Please post the mafia and dead threads AngryPigeon. Thanks!

[bji]

It wasn't mistakes

It was me being mind blocked.

I couldn't play.

pedit : yes I called that today becuase I was scumreading Arc- I just sorted the town team for that and I wanted this shit to finish

that was the town team beside me if you look at that

No offense, but it's pure hubris to believe that you can solve every game and that the only reason that you didn't was because you were emotionally unable to. This game is

hard

for town to solve. If scum is playing properly, it should be near impossible. Which is why the win rate for town is 50%. Because even the best town players don't win much more often than that on average.

And nobody wanted this game to end more than I did! I genuinely believed once that mod error happened that the best that scum was playing for was a tie. No fun to have to keep playing a game you can't win!

[bji]

OK well I won't harp on this, but I think that because RC thought that we couldn't know his role and we did, at that moment the game was broken. But the mods disagreed so I guess I am wrong.

I like you FA. Don't change! I didn't read your wiki by the way. I don't read people's wikis. It's a thing for me. So I don't know what issues you described there but I hope you come away from this game remembering that it's just a game!

[bji]

OK well I won't harp on this, but I think that because RC thought that we couldn't know his role and we did, at that moment the game was broken. But the mods disagreed so I guess I am wrong.

I like you FA. Don't change! I didn't read your wiki by the way. I don't read people's wikis. It's a thing for me. So I don't know what issues you described there but I hope you come away from this game remembering that it's just a game!

I can't change

lol

I know its just a game. thx by all means

Well major props for playing through even though it was not something you wanted to do. Some players just stop playing and replace out or are force replaced out, and I can't respect that. But I can respect sticking with the game even though you don't want to.

[bji]

I even innod BJI and still called him as godfather. Sigh.

I only made my "if your cop then I'm godfather" statement because I thought the game was over because of mod error and I was having fun with you. If you're claiming that you still would have decided I was godfather even though you had an inno on me then ... I don't know what to say. I guess you're even more awesomer than even you think. Or something.

[bji]

What do you think the point of the Titus guilty was?

I was near positive you were GF and I was wondering if I was herded to that investigation.

You never acted positive that I was GF. It was more of an "it's a possibility and I'm not sure I don't really know what to think" situation. And that was

after

I specifically drew your attention to it by claiming it even though I didn't have to claim anything. I was playing with you because I thought the game was over.

Anyway all of this "I was so right" after the fact is not something I enjoy engaging in. I will repeat that I think that good town play is 1) identifying the scum and 2) convincing the rest of town to follow you. Just doing (1) by itself doesn't win games.

[bji]

I was ignored anyway so it wouldn't have mattered what I asid.

Then you'll never win I guess. If you're not better at convincing your town brethren that you're right than your scum opponents are at convincing them that you're wrong ... you're doomed from the start.

[bji]

got me lynched.

You got mod error which skewed your reactions; you can bet the reactions would have been even more damning if you didn't know whether I was cop or not.

Indeed. I was playing alot more loosely because I thought the game was over anyway. The entire start of Day 2 where I engaged with you was based on me believing that the game was going to end and I just wanted to tussle with you for fun. Well maybe not the entire thing; let's say 75% of it. This is why I say the game was borked.

I mean you won, but don't act like I played anything but exemplary in everything but the supercool hammer.

I think you played well but you pushed your luck too far with the multiple fake claims.

[bji]

Everything would have been utterly fine if FA didn't start claiming PR.

Perhaps if you didn't fake claim, FA's gambit would have paid off and led to a town win? Who knows.

My point? You both gambited. Those gambits collided in a bad way. Could this be considered evidence for why Acryon's policy of "town should not fake claim" having merit?

[bji]

Fakeclaiming as town is BAD, especially if you are an actual PR!

I'm going to have to disagree with this. I don't have extensive experience but fake claiming/gambiting just ups the ante. I don't see how it more likely leads to town loss than it does to town win. It's just a way to take control of the game and make it be about what

you

want it to be about. If you can pull that off, it can be very beneficial. If I had a town team where one player was much more experienced than the others, I think that in general allowing them to make the high-risk, high-reward plays would be overall the best strategy.

That being said, as cop I think I'd be trying to play a neutral game and collect innos that I could use to maximal advantage in later days than gambiting it away on the first day. But, I'm just second guessing here, I have no idea which strategy would have worked better in this game or in games in general really.

[bji]

I would like to know which of my day 1 posts made you so suspicious of me to investigate me. Would be helpful for me to understand.

[bji]

Also don't feel bad about losing, I don't blame any town for that, not even RC. This game is like super hard to figure out, I think most town wins are luck anyway and most town losses are bad luck.

I don't think I can be blamed at all for this loss to be hoenst.

I don't either. My statement was meant more like:

"I don't blame any town for that, not even crowd-favorite RC".

I expressed that sentiment because I felt like there was alot of negative judgement about your claim/unclaim/re-claim stuff after you flipped cop, by other town players. I can dig up the quotes if you like.

[bji]

Also don't feel bad about losing, I don't blame any town for that, not even RC. This game is like super hard to figure out, I think most town wins are luck anyway and most town losses are bad luck.

I don't think I can be blamed at all for this loss to be hoenst.

I don't either. My statement was meant more like:

"I don't blame any town for that, not even crowd-favorite RC".

I expressed that sentiment because I felt like there was alot of negative judgement about your claim/unclaim/re-claim stuff after you flipped cop, by other town players. I can dig up the quotes if you like.

Sorry small caveat. I think your share of the blame is small. It's not zero as you have stated.

You should have better anticipated how town would react to your fake BP claim. That is all.

[bji]

Yeah, I should have just hardclaimed and expected to die.

I wanted to live though :S

OK well. As long as you accept that you put yourself in that position, which is the degree to which you have culpability in the loss.

I remember the big thing that started it was when I felt like you were setting up to vote me in a very non towny way.

Ah. I think you're referring to when I made my three lists and you didn't like your positioning and told me "You can just go ahead and vote me. There's really no need to make this giant wallpost to say that you want to vote le RadiantCowbells." Yeah I made those lists because I didn't know what else to do. You were wrong about those being a plan to start a wagon on you, I actually just wanted to have a list that would give me something to play off as I faked reads, and I felt like you being the only player in the game I had previously played with would make it believable that I'd be looking at you closely from the beginning. But you were right about be being slimy, so in the end your read there was a good one.

[bji]

I liked your play Aquanim. It was a source of consternation to me, because you redeemed that slot. We might have gotten RolePlay or itlepip lynched, but we were not going to get you lynched.

Also I sincerely appreciate you and and Dierfire who replaced into a super long game thread and made a good effort to advance the game. Marcrell too to a degree.

[bji]

I truly didn't really understand the case against Mala though. I just went along with it.

[bji]

Game over since when? I never got a PM saying it ended and don't see who died

Since around page 110 or so.

You can do an ISO of Jake and of AngryPigeon to see mod action in this thread.