Open 622 - Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[SnarkySnowman]

Prod dodging for new years. VOTE: Ricastle

[SnarkySnowman]

VOTE: SnarkySnowman

Why so snarky?

If you had frozen balls wouldn't you be snarky?

Um I'm Canadian and my balls are pretty frozen up here and I'm not snarky.

Balls of steel! Can't have ball warmers when ice could melt and balls make up your body.

Anyone can have balls, Percivul. One for each time they call the landlord to fix the taps.

VOTE: Kop

Voting IC after mod confirmed IC?

Oh, I know what Kop is. I was just confused as there didn't seem to be a player with the initials 'IC' in the game. Thanks for clearing that up.

Uhhhhhhhh

Can people just invent a reason for voting me, please? RVS when gone wrong brings nothing to the table, as we can see here.

Because of the above.

I'm tired of lurkers. Snarky has made 8 posts in other games since his one post here.
UNVOTE: Ricastle
VOTE: Snarky

All new year prod dodges though. But I'm back!

[SnarkySnowman]

All new year prod dodges though.

No, they weren't all prod dodges. I can't link them as they're ongoing games, but people can check for themselves if they want. Why did you lie about this?

Why would you misrep this? Literally all of them were one liners which were intended as prod dodges.

Stop.

[SnarkySnowman]

All new year prod dodges though.

I can't link them as they're ongoing games

So don't mention them. It's not the letter of the rule but it's definitely against the spirit of it.

[SnarkySnowman]

Not much, considering it's Day 1, 4 pages in.

[SnarkySnowman]

What do

you

make of Snarky saying absolute jack shit in his first contribution of the game?

Do you want a five paragraph essay on why you're scum based on the first 4 pages?

Or perhaps a comparison showing the pot calling the kettle black?

VOTE: Ricastle

[SnarkySnowman]

Do you want a five paragraph essay on why you're scum based on the first 4 pages?

Or perhaps a comparison showing the pot calling the kettle black?

VOTE: Ricastle

No, but I know a buffoon when I see one. Think about it. What possible motivation is there as any alignment to vote an IC? That's right - reaction testing to catch out people such as yourself. If you honestly think that the contents of said test are solid enough ground to place a vote/scumread then you are either extremely naive town or extremely gullible scum. And considering you have done nothing but take the easy path thus far I'm going to go with the latter until a better lead presents itself.

Did you look in a mirror?

I knew you were probably fishing for reactions but that felt pretty scummy / not town-motivated to me. Hence the vote.

[SnarkySnowman]

So if it was a reaction test, what was your rubric for what is a town reaction versus a non-town reaction?

I was expecting scum to make a significantly bigger deal out of it than town, if anything.

If it was an obvious ploy, why?

Felt like you were trying to create some early mislynch fodder if anything, I can't see any town-motivated reason to do that.

[SnarkySnowman]

Well, excuse me for my inexperience. That's what it looked like to me, that's why I'm voting as I am.

[SnarkySnowman]

Aight, Ricastle earlier didn't seem very town motivated. This definitely isn't town motivated.

VOTE: Lowell

And really we do need more activity.

[SnarkySnowman]

UNVOTE: snarky
VOTE: ricastle

Is this better? I didn't realize snarky had so many defenders!

This is probably the second worst post of the game.

[SnarkySnowman]

Mafia probably chose daytalk right?

I mean I wouldn't have. The only one that seems particularly useful is making the traitor a goon, imo.

[SnarkySnowman]

Eh

[SnarkySnowman]

Still here, hi.

[SnarkySnowman]

Coincidence. I haven't had anything really to add, but I'm still here.

[SnarkySnowman]

Coincidence. I haven't had anything really to add, but I'm still here.

And you're back on the scumlist.

Didn't realize I was on the list to begin with.

[SnarkySnowman]

I don't think Karnage is a good lynch.

[SnarkySnowman]

Either Lowell or Ricastle are my choices.

[SnarkySnowman]

Preferably before we lynch I'd like to get a full readlist in.

[SnarkySnowman]

The lynch will either be vt or a goon.

Im not really worried about it.

?????????

This, I'm also confused. Maybe worthy of my vote, too, because it seems like a slip?? I'll refrain till I finish my readlist though.

[SnarkySnowman]

It seemed odd you know that, because why not a pr? Unless I missed a VT claim?

[SnarkySnowman]

@Zulfy

SETUP

(stolen from Equinox)

The 12-player Stack the Deck setup is a variable open setup consisting of 9 town-aligned players and 3 mafia-aligned players (2 mafia goons and 1 mafia traitor with 1-shot bulletproof).

Two of the following powers are chosen at random for the town:

Bodyguard
Goon cop
Innocent child
Roleblocker
Tracker
Vigilante
The mafia may elect to receive up to 3 of the following role modifications:

Change a goon to bulletproof
Change a goon to jack-of-all-trades (1-shot ninja and 1-shot strongman)
Change a goon to role cop
Recruit the traitor as a mafia goon
Enable Day talk for the mafia team
For each additional power that the mafia selects, the town will receive an additional power chosen at random.

Please note the following:

No player will receive more than one role modification.
The mafia traitor is ineligible for any role modifications unless the mafia team recruits their traitor as a third goon, at which point the new goon may receive role modifications.
All modifications to roles are distributed at the conclusion of Night 0, including the two initial town power roles. Distribution of all role modifications is random.
If both goons (or modified versions thereof) die and the traitor was not recruited, the traitor will gain the factional Night kill ability.
At the beginning of Night 0, all players will receive vanilla role PMs (except the traitor, who will receive a traitor PM). All of the possible initial PMs are listed in the spoiler below.

There are 2 confirmed PRs (including 1 we already know), and then a possible 3 more depending on what the mafia did. How would you know someone can only flip goon or VT?

[SnarkySnowman]

Two of the following powers are chosen at random for the town:

Bodyguard
Goon cop
Innocent child
Roleblocker
Tracker
Vigilante

For each additional power that the mafia selects, the town will receive an additional power chosen at random.

To make it more clear.

So again, unless I missed a VT claim, how would you know the flip would be either VT or goon?

[SnarkySnowman]

VOTE: Zulfy

[SnarkySnowman]

Going through the game again and getting my reads in order.

Persivul and Mario are both town.

Hi uh what?

VOTE: Snarky

His reasoning for the Ricastle vote is pretty bad, so I'm ok with this.

Trying to think of the motivation behind this.

This guy is just so full of holes that I simply cannot comprehend him being town anymore.

Who?

Who am I supposedly bussing?

I think it's important that you explicitly state who you think I am bussing

Nevermind. I'm an idiot. I was waiting for you to say snarky then i was going to ask how me, snarky, and Lowell could all be scum but I forgot about the mafia traitor.

The supposed scumslip. Not sure if I agree it's a slip or not.

Zulfy+Karnage setup confusion should show that it's sort of confusing so it shouldn't be a tell, but Zulfy thinking there'd only be one makes me think he might know what scum picked and since there was only one thought there'd be only one PR. I'm not positive.

I definitely feel that.


So my reads for now.

Town {MarioManiac4}
Townlean {Persivul, Marcrell, jmo16mla}
Null {Armageddon}
Scumlean {Karnage, Grendaberry}
Scum {Ricastle, Lowell, Zulfy}

I think there's definitely a scum in {Karnage, Ricastle}

[SnarkySnowman]

VOTE: Ricastle

[SnarkySnowman]

I'd vote Karnage very close to deadline only, I think Ricastle is a better choice to pressure right now.

[SnarkySnowman]

Because I read Ricastle more scum than Karnage, and I think there's definitely a scum between the two of them.

[SnarkySnowman]

lets lynch persivul tomorrow

Eh, his reads are similar to mine which makes me feel like he's Townie, but I'd be willing to pressure this.

Liking a Zulfy pressure right now but I'm not strong on that lynch.

[SnarkySnowman]

I mean, that's not the only reason, but I read him town. It's not so much the reads, but the reasoning for the reads that I agree with.

[SnarkySnowman]

I dig the content and the pace attempting to move. I'm also mobile only until Monday night est

[SnarkySnowman]

Vote Ricastle or Zulfy, pick one.

[SnarkySnowman]

I'm not at all willing to lynch Mario today

[SnarkySnowman]

Intent to hammer Zulfy at deadline.

[SnarkySnowman]

You self hammered...

Yeah dafuck

[SnarkySnowman]

So my reads for now.

Town {MarioManiac4}
Townlean {Persivul, Marcrell, jmo16mla}
Null {Armageddon}
Scumlean {Karnage, Grendaberry}
Scum {Ricastle, Lowell, Zulfy}

I think there's definitely a scum in {Karnage, Ricastle}

Except persivul is now null to scumlean

[SnarkySnowman]

I want to see more from Arma but don't read him scum yet.

[SnarkySnowman]

I don't believe there has been any semblance of a case presented against Karnage by anyone on his wagon right now. The only point against him I can find whatsoever is that his attack targets were changing based on where pressure was being applied, which isn't even necessarily scumplay. So if the slip is being denied as evidence then the wagon is, quite frankly, utter shit.

VOTE: Karnage

Hmmm?

[SnarkySnowman]

I'm not liking this. Both of you just outted yourselves voluntarily? I'm inclined to think you are both lying scum.

This a lot. I'm not really inclined to believe either claim but I'm going to read up and evaluate.

[SnarkySnowman]

Ugh......................

Let me think about all this for a bit. I'm not willing to lynch Persivul, Ricastle, or Grenda today but may consider it in the future.

I really, really hate how this came about.

Persivul claims Tracker and says tracked Ricastle to Grenda. Lie or Truth?
Ricastle claims Roleblocker and says blocked Grenda. Lie or Truth?
Grenda claims Goon Cop and claims no result on Persivul. Lie or Truth?

1) Persivul lied. Ricastle could be telling the truth or lying, but is the same alignment as Grenda.
2) Persivul told the truth. Ricastle could be telling the truth or lying, but again shares the same alignment as Grenda (Roleblocker is a town-only trait).
3) Persivul told the truth, Ricastle told the truth, and Grenda is lying.
4) All three lied => All three share the same alignment.
5) All three told the truth => All three share the same alignment.

I think most likely it's 4 or 5.

Not Voting {Ricastle, Persivul, Grenda, Mario}
Would Consider {Marcrell, jmo}
Would Vote {Karnage, Lowell, Arma}

For real though, why claim. Why.

Any counterclaims while we're at it though?

VOTE: Lowell

[SnarkySnowman]

Scum know how many town PRs there will be. It's not that risky given we had one mod-confirmed.

[SnarkySnowman]

Why

[SnarkySnowman]

And what if one or more of them was lying?

[SnarkySnowman]

Also, why 6 to lynch from? You realize we only have 3 claimed PRs. So...

10 alive, 7 to lynch from => 8 alive, 6 to lynch from => 6 alive, 5 to lynch from, worst case.

Either I'm missing something really big, or you are.

[SnarkySnowman]

Those are my reads. Mario is a townread for me.

[SnarkySnowman]

You may not be in your own lynch pool but that don't mean you're not in anyone else's.

[SnarkySnowman]

I like how I'm a lynch candidate for almost no reason in almost every game I play in.

Jmo: "you didn't give reads or vote reads"
Persivul: "k I'll vote you"
Grenda: "snarky/Arma are my top lynches"

Grenda, why? What are your reads?

Can we prod Armageddon or at least get something meaningful out of him?

Also can we knock the nonsense off and start using reasoning behind votes again?

[SnarkySnowman]

I'm still waiting for Arma. Also my v/LA ends at the end of the football games tomorrow.

[SnarkySnowman]

Why is Snarky not an option, Lowell?

Also I'd really like to know what the case on Arma is that couldn't apply to a fuller extent to Snarky and Marcrell.

That's the thing. The case on Arma applies to about the same extent on me, Marcrell, and even Grenda. It's not legit.

[SnarkySnowman]

Okay, how about here.

Town by claim: {Persivul, Ricastle, Grenda}
Town by (my) read: {Mario, Jmo}
Null by lack of post: {Marcrell, Lowell, Armageddon}
Null by lack of (my) read: {Karnage, Snarky}

jmo, I so badly want to read you scum because my gut feeling, but I can't quite see it reading your iso.

So as I said earlier,
Will not vote: {Persivul, Grenda, Ricastle, Mario}
Would consider: {jmo, Arma, Marcrell}
Would vote: {lowell, Karnage}

I really want to see more from Arma before we consider lynching him - at the very least, a readlist.

I think Lowell is the answer for today though.

@Lowell, do you still think percival and Mario are town? And if so, why?

Yes. To the extent that my reads were based on two or three early posts, I still believe them. It's weird that you're trying to pin me down on this. I got townvibes, I mentioned townvibes.

Keeping in mind that Mario made one RVS vote and Persivul two or three one-line posts to that point, it's weird you insist.

If you're scum trying to jump on me for "OMG bad post LOL" that's fine. But if you're town, you have no excuses. You won't get absolved later on by saying "Ugh, well, it's his own fault for playing badly."

See Zulfy wagon.

Blah blah blah more stuff about Karnage.

VOTE: armageddon

Don't know how many votes that is. I would also vote karnage. Right? Am I missing why that's not a thing?

Given you think that the wagon on Karnage is good, but also that the "scumslip" wasn't legit or anything, why do you want to vote Karnage? I thought that wagon was based entirely on the supposed "scumslip"

[SnarkySnowman]

Let's take myself out of it. I'm a Bodyguard, I tried to save roflcopter last night but the mafia used Strongman (so we know they also have a 1-shot ninja).

Sorry for causing nonsense. Let's get back to lynching scum though.

[SnarkySnowman]

From my perspective, 3/6. I'm not willing to lynch Armageddon right now provided he comes back and says things.

[SnarkySnowman]

I could get behind it I guess. Like I said, my gut reads scum hard but I don't really see anything in his play that suggests it.

VOTE: jmo nonetheless.

[SnarkySnowman]

I claimed because I was distracting town, and didn't want to do that.

[SnarkySnowman]

I could get behind it I guess. Like I said, my gut reads scum hard but I don't really see anything in his play that suggests it.

I still stand by this. Play definitely seems town but gut says scum. I don't fully agree with Ricastle's reasoning for jmo-scum.

@Grenda, my two scumreads were Ricastle and Zulfy. Ricastle claimed PR and Zulfy, well... Karnage was a mild scumread and honestly I keep thinking better of it, so I'm not currently scumreading anyone :/

[SnarkySnowman]

Townreading claims, and also Mario + jmo (town by read, scum by gut), and process of elimination from that - I would strongly prefer a Lowell lynch but I could settle for jmo on the grounds of my gutread scum. I don't feel great about lynching jmo.

[SnarkySnowman]

VOTE: Marcrell

Yeah I don't think I'm feeling the jmo thing. Starting to feel worse about a possible town Karnage too. Marcrell for now.

[SnarkySnowman]

Which is L-2

[SnarkySnowman]

Bip.

VOTE: Marcrell

Whyyyyyyy. Way too early

[SnarkySnowman]

I bodyguarded Ricastle -___-

Since he said he blocked Grenda N1, my guess is mafia used their strongman to kill roflcopter (who was my N1 target). Then I'm guessing Ricastle blocked me, not trusting my claim :///////////

Grenda, any results?

Persivul, there's definitely a ninja still out there so not going anywhere is the same as inconclusive.

[SnarkySnowman]

VOTE: Karnage by the way. I agree with jmo's assessment of the interaction between him and marcrell. I still think mario is town, and I want to see more from arma before I decide to go on the lynchpath for him. jmo still gutreads scum but just about all his posts read strongly town-motivated.

[SnarkySnowman]

If that's your reasoning for me scum, that's pretty weak. I included myself because I was irked at Jmo confirming himself as town and didn't want to do that the other way around, because pretty clearly I know I'm only town confirmed to myself.

And then I claimed so I could stop distracting town with my nonsense.

[SnarkySnowman]

I wasn't going to say I was a scumread, was I?

[SnarkySnowman]

VOTE: armageddon

[SnarkySnowman]

That's L-1 by the way.

[SnarkySnowman]

Persivul, Grenda, and myself have claimed PR.
Karnage is not a goon. Could be scum still though.
jmo is a town read.

Mario less so. Lowell has always been a scumread.

Today for me, it's between Arma, Lowell, and Mario. Tomorrow, investigations may help, but I'd shoot for Lowell.

[SnarkySnowman]

@Mod, when the JoaT mafia exhausts their abilities, do they become a goon?

[SnarkySnowman]

I'd be shocked if I didn't die the next night.

[SnarkySnowman]

We don't have anything to stop a nightkill anymore. If I bodyguard, I die instead of the person targetted. Roleblocker got killed. No doc.

[SnarkySnowman]

I re read your post and maybe I'm just an idiot. But I don't see anything.

[SnarkySnowman]

I feel like an A+ bodyguard.