Mini 1747: Cinnamon Roll Mafia Endgame

[FA_Q2]

I guess since now you have a legitimate reason for your vote against me...

UNVOTE: Syndesis

Well, that is rather appeasing...

[FA_Q2]

Well hawkleader, you say this is the most boring part of the game and that you're eager to get it out of the way, so then you flop your vote on me? That doesn't strike me well.

The quickest way to get out of RVS is to vote random people and get a read on their reactions. Many people have already done so to me. I voted Syn and she seemed the one who was most actively scumhunting. I unvoted her, decided to vote someone else at random, and your name just happened to be there.

whoa wagons are happening

Very much so, yes. Thoughts on Moosy specifically would be appreciated when you make your post.

Moosy is pushing on the easiest wagons in the thread right now in an attempt to mislead the thread.

Oh wait, that was such a Mafia oriented post! Oh wait, he's self conscious! Mafia!

oh wait, he might be town screwing around! But he might have expected that as Mafia which is why he's acting that way!

So i have no clue what this happened. This little mishap/joke is either a scum slip or a bad mafia player. He gives me more reasons to vote him than Swordsworth.

VOTE: MoosyDoosy until I get a clear understanding of what just happened to him

and should we start the claims at L-2 or L-1?

You just keep posting scummy posts.

This just feels like more attempts at appeasing and you are utterly ignoring the mounting pressure on your slot. VOTE: hawkleader3

NOTE: That places him at L-1

[FA_Q2]

I don't know why

, but I'd laugh at that for some reason

I swear, everyone and their weirdly scummy phrasing

Why do you find that particular phrasing scummy?

[FA_Q2]

@toolenduso: do you have any thoughts on moosy?

I do! But I am not giving them out atm.

....

You ask others for opinions on a slot that has posted thus far rather chaotically but refuse to actually share your own thoughts or even why you are asking. Are you trying to gauge how town will take your push...

[FA_Q2]

Thank god. Claim time. My claim................is jailkeeper. That's why I was nervous before. I didn't want to be suspected of killed easily on the first day before my powers were put to good use. Oh well. It seems as if it's no use. I deal with pressure, I get voted on. I ignore pressure, I get voted on. So now it seems like everyone's just trying to find out who my scum partner is at this point because it's confirmed I'm scum. If this doesn't change your mind, I'm afraid nothing will.

If what doesn't change our minds? Blank claims with nothing whatsoever in dealing with your wagon?

Seems like you are trying to blame everyone for voting you because you didn't want to deal with the fact you are posting like scum.

[FA_Q2]

FA_Q2: If I knew I'd have included it in the actual post. Sometimes word choice rubs me the wrong way. I don't think I've actually ever caught scum on word choice, which is why I didn't make more of it. Although...it sounds a bit stilted, I guess?

Fair enough.

This is not a post I particularly like. Actually, wait. Ehh. It's alright.

...

Then why even post this line.

[FA_Q2]

Thank god. Claim time. My claim................is jailkeeper. That's why I was nervous before. I didn't want to be suspected of killed easily on the first day before my powers were put to good use. Oh well. It seems as if it's no use. I deal with pressure, I get voted on. I ignore pressure, I get voted on. So now it seems like everyone's just trying to find out who my scum partner is at this point because it's confirmed I'm scum. If this doesn't change your mind, I'm afraid nothing will.

Did you type this post on mobile?

Now that you have an answer would you care to state where you were going with this?

[FA_Q2]

So the post took you up to two minutes to write -- assuming no prep time -- and so he could have written the post within the four minutes after he was put to L-1.

"93 words", "53 WPM".

....

You are trying to see if he had the post pre-done?

That seems unusual - I have been scum a few times and never would I have had a fake claim already typed up. I would have already decided what it was but not pre-typed the claim itself. You need to integrate the claim into the thread as it currently stands - not pre type it up and copy/past it into the thread. Further, timing is a rather inconsistent way of doing so as you are never going to see the L-1 at the exact time it is posted nor will you necessarily respond immediately.

[FA_Q2]

Hawk's been super jittery all game and I don't think he would fakeclaim.

Oh yeah! I wanted to chase this.

VOTE: FA_Q2

You should but you are going to need more than a naked vote to do so.

By all means - construct a case.

[FA_Q2]

I don't completely understand the concept of RVS, honestly. If I have to vote someone, let's go ahead and

VOTE: hawkleader3

because, I dunno...I'm still hungry?

Swordsworth, can you explain your vote at this point in the thread?

If FA_Q2 could respond to Syndesis' push that would be great as well.

Respond to what?

He has not constructed a 'push.' Just a rather naked vote and a post that says 'this.' Neither is something that is possible to respond to until he actually gives a reason or a case for the vote.

[FA_Q2]

UNVOTE:
For the time being as well.

[FA_Q2]

I mean, I get frustrated when people push me without a case as either alignment, so that might be just null. That said, scum caught for the wrong reasons also tend to get frustrated, but I've seen no sign of that so far.

I feel that his response has constituted more than just frustration, in particular premature defensiveness. His repeated insistence that you explain your vote, and that an unexplained accusation cannot be responded to, show how much he wants to answer your accusation to prevent his wagon from progressing any further.

You should but you are going to need more than a naked vote to do so.

By all means - construct a case.

Additionally, in posts like this tone is somewhat passive-aggressive, and I believe he is attempting to hide his frustration. This makes me think that FA_Q2 is perhaps trying to hide his fear of being voted which is even greater than he is letting on.

Strange considering that there is zero frustration in that post at all. I expect everyone to explain their votes. Naked votes are more than worthless - they are scummy. They completely avoid purpose and reasoning - things you use later in the game to find scum.

Further, I was directly asked to address the vote. I responded. Considering that I called out hawk for ignoring pressure on him I don't see how you would expect me to act otherwise.

[FA_Q2]

He has not constructed a 'push.' Just a rather naked vote and a post that says 'this.' Neither is something that is possible to respond to until he actually gives a reason or a case for the vote.

Fair enough, though I thought it was possible that someone would pick up on the context. Plus it was super late here and I didn't feel like typing out actual reasons >___>

The context is that I find it weird that you kind of sussed hawk without voting him, while not voting anyone at all.

Oh god I just realized that I've become that person who never explains anything unless asked whoops this is not what I was trying to do

At the time I believed a vote on him would not be constructive. his wagon was building fast and I didn't want to see it progress any further from a single post. Then he made another scummy post and I decided it was time to put my vote there.

That single post was a really weak reason to vote him when his wagon was already mounting. I wanted to see further reactions.

[FA_Q2]

Not sure if Moosy trolling, sarcastic, or serious.

Not sure if I really want to think about it, either

The better question is does it matter?

At this point it seems that moosey is dead set on being anti town. We will have to deal with it at some point but day one is a bad day to do so.

[FA_Q2]

Not sure if Moosy trolling, sarcastic, or serious.

Not sure if I really want to think about it, either

The better question is does it matter?

At this point it seems that moosey is dead set on being anti town. We will have to deal with it at some point but day one is a bad day to do so.

Why is day 1 a bad day to do so?

Because day one is a terrible day to waste. Many people here seem to think that it is a good time to get rid of lackluster players but that simply means you are entering day 2 as a day one repeat - a day with almost no information whatsoever. It is very important for town, IMHO, to get out of that stage as fast as possible and get good interactions to proceed with. Information early on is crucial.

Basically, I hate just stabbing in the dark and that is essentially what day one is.

I don't like Moosey's posting either - it is worthless - but if we end up lynching it we are going for a PL rather than a scum lynch. While not entirely against PL's they are more of a last resort than a starting option. I hope that moosey will clean it up as the game progresses and we get more to analyze.

[FA_Q2]

There's something else... a difficult to describe feeling bothering me with your posts which I can't really define, but I will unvote for now as I believe my previous vote to have lost most of its basis.

UNVOTE: FA_Q2

Let me know what it is when you figure it out.

You are not the first player to make that statement when I draw town - every single game it seems someone says that. Except the one time I drew scum (not counting my newbie game) - then no one suspected me. I just wish I knew why

[FA_Q2]

That makes no sense. Scum can make up reasons just as easily as town could, and they'll often look better because they're paying attention to how people read them.

Placement of the votes and motivation matter a hundred times more than reason.

I don't like this post one bit.

You cast doubt on Dave's statement but fail to complete your statement. If placement mattered so much more then why did you not bother to address those that jumped on where you consider scummy placement? I would also state you are completely incorrect. Placement matters but scum can just as easily manipulate that as they can come up with reasoning. Reasoning is a powerful tool for town - as the game rolls on scum tend to reveal themselves with inconsistent reasoning and in the motivations behind those reasons.

Speaking of which:

VOTE: toolendeuso

You uh

Wanna expand on that thought?

not really but i probably have to later

No, you really need to now. A vote is worthless without something behind it to get more people to vote.

[FA_Q2]

Meh, might as well put in some effort before I go afk. I'd prefer if Swordsworth or FA_Q2 get lynched for today. I'd like it if ChaoticNeutrality can give some reasons behind his thoughts rather than soft pushing people and trying to get others to make reasons for him. iranoavp or whatever his name is needs to be looked at again. And by that, I mean his ISO. I said he was no-lynch pile for today but that may change. His vote onto hawkleader3 might have been an opportunity to jump onto an easy wagon and his subsequent jump onto the next popular wagon with terrible reasoning was highly suspect.

If people would discuss what I've said that would be great.

btw, I am Mafia attempting to point people in all the wrong directions so there's actually no need to listen to what I've been saying.

This is getting old very fast moosey.

If you don't want to play then replace out. Otherwise, start playing. You are going out of your way to make this game pointless.

[FA_Q2]

His vote onto hawkleader3

Why did you just lie? I haven't voted hawk all game

Good point. You have only placed an RVS and you vote is still sitting there. You have only disseminated doubt without actually giving any real points. Lastly, you are feeling out a Moosey lynch but again not offering any actual original input to it.

VOTE: Chaotic Neutrality

Moosey actually pointed this out as well:

I'd like it if ChaoticNeutrality can give some reasons behind his thoughts rather than soft pushing people and trying to get others to make reasons for him.

Fist think he has posted this game that was not garbage.

[FA_Q2]

I disagree with this post on a theory level. If all the scum-aligned players just gave reasons for their votes (not a difficult thing to do), then on this basis they'd be indistinguishable from the town-aligned players! If you use such a rigid rubric for determining a player's alignment, I feel you will more frequently entrap players of any alignment who simply don't feel like playing by the rules or giving reasons for their votes.

It is not a matter of rigidity and I don't know where you are pulling that from. They are not indistinguishable because you can analyze their reasoning. Random voting is impossible to analyze and makes determining alignment impossible.

If it entraps more players who 'don't feel like giving reasons' then that is a site meta problem. Meta that would need to be addressed anyway considering that it gimps town hardcore. Theory analysis really is a distraction though.

[FA_Q2]

bored with my current vote so

VOTE: davesaz

Is that your only reason to change votes?

What do you man by 'feelings' for dave? I don't really see where dave has been scummy.

[FA_Q2]

Hi everyone,

Going to start reading as soon as I get home tonight.

Hi, Tool, yes probably, it's been quite a long time since I played here last.

...
Did you manage to get caught up. We really need a catalyst to restart the momentum.

[FA_Q2]

I would also point out that CN has totally avoided my vote. He engaged tool (who had not even voted him at that time either) but said nothing about my read on him. No reaction on tool's vote either though it has only been just under 24hrs so he may not have had the chance.

[FA_Q2]

I would also point out that CN has totally avoided my vote. He engaged tool (who had not even voted him at that time either) but said nothing about my read on him. No reaction on tool's vote either though it has only been just under 24hrs so he may not have had the chance.

It was predictable. Was that what you wanted?

You mean that when you post like scum it is predictable that people vote you for it? No, that is not 'what I wanted' but at this point it is clear that you wish to avoid any discussion about your posting.

This is a good lynch.

[FA_Q2]

I would also point out that CN has totally avoided my vote. He engaged tool (who had not even voted him at that time either) but said nothing about my read on him. No reaction on tool's vote either though it has only been just under 24hrs so he may not have had the chance.

It was predictable. Was that what you wanted?

You mean that when you post like scum it is predictable that people vote you for it? No, that is not 'what I wanted' but at this point it is clear that you wish to avoid any discussion about your posting.

This is a good lynch.

Putting words into other's mouths. I heard this was all the rage with mafiascum townies nowadays.

If your conviction is strong on CN then at least use a non-fallacious way to rally a lynch mob, it's just slightly harder and CN has done a lot of the work for you.

I didn't put any words into his mouth - I interpreted his empty and pointless responses that have done nothing more than avoid any discussion. I highlighted this reality. I don't really care if you like it or not.

[FA_Q2]

3 days till deadline, with many people going to be V/LA either stated or not.

While a true statement, it adds nothing to actually moving forward with the game in general. From a player that almost always asks questions, I find this statement rather odd...

[FA_Q2]

I'm sorry I'm not in logical mode right now!

not

I really just have no idea what I'm doing in this game anymore except kind of flailing.

Another attempt at reads incoming.

Not really liking these posts. Syndesis votes me and then places some reasoning for that vote. The instant that it is pointed out that the reasoning is rather vapid, they run from those statements. It feels very appeasey to me in general.

[FA_Q2]

UNVOTE: Metrion
VOTE: FA_Q2

While I remain no less convinced that Metrion is scum-aligned, there is not much time left and I would like to lynch someone today! In its current position, my vote is all but useless. I believe that of the current wagons, FA_Q2 is most likely to be scum-aligned, toolenduso is most likely to be town-aligned,

and Chaotic Neutrality is still reasonably likely to be town-aligned.

Metrion, I intend to respond to your post when I get the chance (I am currently rather busy).

Why?

[FA_Q2]

3 days till deadline, with many people going to be V/LA either stated or not.

While a true statement, it adds nothing to actually moving forward with the game in general. From a player that almost always asks questions, I find this statement rather odd...

I could understand this if davesaz did nothing but make posts like these, but you even acknowledge that he has moved the game forward previously.

You are placing the slightest sliver of suspicion onto davesaz for something that really shouldn't be warranting even this. Even so, this kind of throwing shade is inherently unwarranted because it is usually irrelevant and serves little purpose other than to discredit. I find this action suspicious and become happier with my compromise vote on you.

Absolutely, asking questions and pointing out inconsistencies in a players posting certainly is scummy, right.

A town player would just sit down and not point anything out because that is just so good for town.
/sarcasm

[FA_Q2]

You didn't ask any questions in 412. The fact that you pointed out inconsistencies in davesaz's posting does not make you look more like a scum-aligned player to me. The fact that you approached it in such a subtle and doubtful way (his comment is "odd", not "scummy", or even "null" as I would consider it) makes you look scum-aligned.

That is because his comment is not 'scummy' in and of itself. It was simply odd or out of character from what I consider dave's normal posting.

I see that pointing out oddities is a problem with you. If town feels the need to lynch me over it then so be it.

UNVOTE: Metrion
VOTE: FA_Q2

While I remain no less convinced that Metrion is scum-aligned, there is not much time left and I would like to lynch someone today! In its current position, my vote is all but useless. I believe that of the current wagons, FA_Q2 is most likely to be scum-aligned, toolenduso is most likely to be town-aligned,

and Chaotic Neutrality is still reasonably likely to be town-aligned.

Metrion, I intend to respond to your post when I get the chance (I am currently rather busy).

Why?

I explained this previously in 372!

Your explanation is rather vapid. You point out that his response to being pushed was towny. What response? He has simply ignored being pushed. When has ignoring things been towny?



At this point me and CN are the lynch candidates. If you are not voting one of us then you should be.

[FA_Q2]

Can you give some details on the Syndesis read?

They... seem town-aligned? Their posts are genuine and train-of-thought, s that what you want to hear? I am not good at town-aligned reads. Let's say it is a "gut read", if that makes it easier.

This sounds like you have no true scum reads at all?

I don't understand where you're getting this from. I read Metrion, FA_Q2, TheCow and you as scum-aligned to various degrees. The deadline is forcing a compromise lynch.

How is this a compromise lynch? You want to lynch me and I am one of the leading wagons.

[FA_Q2]

With CN's flip lolbabe looks really bad to me. Yesterday she seemed to be avoiding the whole CN wagon as much as possible only commenting on it when forced to. Her push on me was manufactured. There were legitimate votes on me but lol was not one of them. I think her 'case' was contrived to push her partners counter wagon as it was a real possibility that I was going to be lynched instead. She soft defended CN and really avoided taking a hard stance on him.

VOTE: lolbabe

[FA_Q2]

Sorry I have been out so long - this week has been way to busy and I was not able log on. Reading now.

[FA_Q2]

See? This is very convenient. I form a wagon with zero reasoning and no one points me out on it.

Why?

You are what I would consider a 'chaotic' player in the D&D sense of the word. Sorry if that is confusing but it is the best description that I can put to words. Your posts makes little to no sense and do nothing for the game itself. I would not consider any of your votes to have any reasoning or substance.

[FA_Q2]

@iraonavp, what's your read on Metrion right now?

^^ probably like the most prevalent question right now.

Scum-aligned, it was not altered very much by Chaotic Neutrality being revealed as scum-aligned. The soft defense of Chaotic Neutrality makes me suspect Metrion to an even greater extent since Chaotic Neutrality was actually scum-aligned. It makes more sense to me that I was wrong about thinking CN was town-aligned but right about thinking Metrion was scum-aligned.

Also, I can't say I've read all of toolenduso's post, but who can disagree with all those words?!

So a town read flipping scum actually reinforced your original scum read?

UNVOTE:

I find this very scummy as scum have a reason to avoid looking inconstant. A scum flip on a town read *should* cause you to re-evaluate your original positions, not entrench them. Point out those soft defense posts you infer about. I believe this is the first time you mention them.

Also:

Can you give some details on the Syndesis read?

They... seem town-aligned? Their posts are genuine and train-of-thought, s that what you want to hear? I am not good at town-aligned reads. Let's say it is a "gut read", if that makes it easier.

This sounds like you have no true scum reads at all?

I don't understand where you're getting this from. I read Metrion, FA_Q2, TheCow and you as scum-aligned to various degrees. The deadline is forcing a compromise lynch.

How is this a compromise lynch? You want to lynch me and I am one of the leading wagons.

A compromise lynch because Metrion would be my first pick for today's lynch.

I am reminded about this scummy post. Here you are claiming that one of your scum picks (me) is a 'compromise lynch' which is a false claim IMHO. You labeled me as scum - not as a maybe. I notice that you did not even include any maybes in your statement. You cannot compromise by lynching one of your top scum picks. It really looks like you were positioning yourself for my flip. Considering you were pushing for me at the end I certainly do not see your vote on my wagon as a 'compromise.'

Lastly, the town read on CN was not just wrong - it was completely uncalled for. Had you went with CN as a PL and a bad idea I could have bought that (though I clearly disagreed). There was nothing at all that gave an indication of town on CN. I know you mentioned:

VOTE: iraonavp

It would really help a lot if you would say why.

I am personally somewhat frustrated at being the main wagon at this point. I feel it is a direct result of me being incorrect (and the most vocally so) about Chaotic Neutrality's alignment.

And I understand being frustrated in this circumstance if you really are town. However, it is obvious that you, defending CN far more than CN himself, would be the number one candidate out the gate this day for many people. I can say that your position on CN is simply a part of why I am having issues with your slot.

VOTE: iraonavp
wagoning for the sake of the gamestate. I prefer this wagon over the other one. Content soontm

Uh, ya - this does nothing for the game state at all.

[FA_Q2]

That's a large generalization, this is entirely dependent on situation. On d1, I don't try to resolve inconsistencies among my reads (e.g. [x] and [y] probably aren't both scum together but I read them as scum individually). This means that when a read is wrong, it doesn't make the others all wrong too.

And that really misses the point. You are being very defensive of the read itself. What interested me is the fact that you didn't even hesitate and entrenched your read rather than even look at the single positive scum slot and what that might mean. I don't see anything from you about the CN flip in general.

Also:

Can you give some details on the Syndesis read?

They... seem town-aligned? Their posts are genuine and train-of-thought, s that what you want to hear? I am not good at town-aligned reads. Let's say it is a "gut read", if that makes it easier.

This sounds like you have no true scum reads at all?

I don't understand where you're getting this from. I read Metrion, FA_Q2, TheCow and you as scum-aligned to various degrees. The deadline is forcing a compromise lynch.

How is this a compromise lynch? You want to lynch me and I am one of the leading wagons.

A compromise lynch because Metrion would be my first pick for today's lynch.

I am reminded about this scummy post. Here you are claiming that one of your scum picks (me) is a 'compromise lynch' which is a false claim IMHO. You labeled me as scum - not as a maybe. I notice that you did not even include any maybes in your statement. You cannot compromise by lynching one of your top scum picks. It really looks like you were positioning yourself for my flip. Considering you were pushing for me at the end I certainly do not see your vote on my wagon as a 'compromise.'

It was a compromise lynch because I considered Metrion more likely to flip scum than you. This is just nitpicky and terrible, I don't see how it could be at all indicative even if I used the wrong term to describe it.

It's not 'nitpicky' and it has nothing to do with using the 'wrong term.' It has to do with positioning. You do scummy things and then demand that they really are not scummy.

Lastly, the town read on CN was not just wrong - it was completely uncalled for. Had you went with CN as a PL and a bad idea I could have bought that (though I clearly disagreed). There was nothing at all that gave an indication of town on CN.

That's your personal opinion, and I disagree. Of course you aren't going to be able to see indications of CN being town-aligned after he's flipped scum-aligned. But from my perspective yesterday, he appeared town-aligned.

I cant see 'indications' because his ISO was essentially blank.

I know you mentioned:

VOTE: iraonavp

It would really help a lot if you would say why.

I am personally somewhat frustrated at being the main wagon at this point. I feel it is a direct result of me being incorrect (and the most vocally so) about Chaotic Neutrality's alignment.

And I understand being frustrated in this circumstance if you really are town. However, it is obvious that you, defending CN far more than CN himself, would be the number one candidate out the gate this day for many people. I can say that your position on CN is simply a part of why I am having issues with your slot.

That's shallow. It makes me a much easier mislynch, since most of this town seems to have difficulty getting past my defending of a scum-aligned player.

*sigh* it's not 'shallow.' It is fact.

I'm also not surprised that Metrion hasn't voted me yet. My town-aligned flip will reflect very badly on him, and he's scared to play a part in it.

^I would like a response to this post. Metrion, where are your votes in general. I don't think you have made a real vote this game...

[FA_Q2]

Tools is probably town too. Normally I have trouble reading the text-wall logical posters, but I think he's pretty action driven to be mafia. My previous experience found mafia that posted that way showing hints of trying to slow things down in the game and confuse the town, but I'm not seeing that from tools. For the rest I'm seeing a lot of null for now. I have to go back over in more detail later today since I speedread a lot just to catch up.

@Moosey iraon doesn't look that bad tbh. Shaky earlygame but his near-deadline and day 2 posts are alright.

Really?
His day 2 posts are horrible imho. His day one really didn't bother me.

[FA_Q2]

Let's do some pseudo-VCA while I painstakingly reread! How likely is it that...

...CN was bussed?
...scum was setting up to bus CN but did not get a vote on the wagon?
...there's scum on FA's wagon?
...there's scum off both wagons?

Normally I would say that it is most likely that there was one scum on CN and one on me assuming a 3 man team. I don't really like the complete lack of a vote from met's slot though. I am positive there was at least one scum on my wagon. A day one counter wagon to a scum is sure to have someone from the scum team supporting it. I doubt it was synd considering the late day switch that really finished off CN's flip and I don't see a lot from day one that would make me think he was scum anyway. lolslot and ira are both scummy to me right now.

[FA_Q2]

I am completely okay with focusing on Metrion afterwards. Let's just focus on iraonavp and settle him.

There has been plenty of focus on ira. Why are you in a hurry for L-1? You really want a claim that bad...

MOD: I think met is overdue for a prod - it has been 3 days

[FA_Q2]

I do not trust the Metrion wagon, other than tool, but I'm also having second thoughts about irawagon.

That is not very useful. Where do you want to go with this then?

Those are the two most likely lynch candidates at the moment - who would you suggest is more scummy?

[FA_Q2]

THIS WAGON WILL HIT MAFIA BOYS LET'S GO

I seem to remember you having a similar confidence in hawkleader3 being scum-aligned, and he flipped town!

Sorry I'm busy. But can someone check whether iraonavp knew I was being sarcastic on hawkleader or not? ^^

Are you making the claim that you never seriously thought hawk was scum?

[FA_Q2]

Because I'm Mafia! Makes me wonder what response you expected tbh.

I expected an actual response. Guess I forgot who I was talking to.

^^ Also, doesn't even matter if you think badly of my playstyle because I netted us ez D1 mafia lynch.

You netted us an easy day one lynch?

lol, that's rich.

[FA_Q2]

FA, which of the current wagons do you prefer?

Currently I like metslot more than ira. I do not like the complete lack of voting and soft pushing that he did. He replaced out before giving us any real reaction on this as well and that does not sit well with me. However - flubber points out something that I missed:

I haven't voted Moosy yet because I haven't had a chance to ISO anyone and look in depth at my reads, they're very surface level. But it should be obvious if he gets lynched that I was one of the main people pushing that wagon - I'm not going to magically be free of responsibility when he flips just because I wasn't voting him.

Infact if he flips scum I'm sure someone (you) is going to argue I was bussing. Kinda screwed either way.

He's scummy and it's not his play style that I take issue with.

I think Moosy is probably scum due to this.

Also if I say something dumb, sorry. I'm reading very piecemeal because reading 30 pages straight up is boring also this iPad has no charge.

And moosey dodged the shit out of this. The same way he has dogged everything and given complete non answers to any suspicion on him. I don't like the idea of giving him a pass because he refuses to engage.
VOTE: moosey

Flubber is my second choice at this point.

[FA_Q2]

You guys really aren't catching on

No we are not so you might as well just make your point clearly.

[FA_Q2]

The thread is slow as hell and we have one day left.

The reality here is that you are going to need a hell of a case on another player or you are getting hammered flubber and you are, instead, floundering. We don't have a lot of time here - just fully lay out what you are getting at and who a better lynch may be. As of this post, we have 23 hours remaining. I am going to work and will be back around 1am which is the last time that I can get on before the deadline. I am going to hammer you then unless something extraordinary comes from your slot. At the very least you could give us some solid reads and why.

Intent to hammer in 11 hrs

[FA_Q2]

Well, the time is here and yet not even a squeak from flubber.

VOTE: flubbernugget

[FA_Q2]

That brings me right back to moosey and rask.

VOTE: moosey

I tire of this slot getting a pass for no reason. Mossey was also off the one scum we lynched and on the one town we lynched.

[FA_Q2]

That brings me right back to moosey and rask.

VOTE: moosey

I tire of this slot getting a pass for no reason. Mossey was also off the one scum we lynched and on the one town we lynched.

What changed your mind on ira?

Nothing really. Those 2 slots are more scummy at this point IMHO. There is something to be said that ira has been incorrect in virtually every single position they have taken.

[FA_Q2]

UNVOTE:
clearly doing nothing.

i-dont-care-who-is-lynched-as-long-as-its-not-me feeling from him.

Based on what, exactly?

[FA_Q2]

That brings me right back to moosey and rask.

VOTE: moosey

I tire of this slot getting a pass for no reason. Mossey was also off the one scum we lynched and on the one town we lynched.

What changed your mind on ira?

Nothing really. Those 2 slots are more scummy at this point IMHO.

When I first read this, I was a bit taken aback because from memory I thought you had a strong scum-aligned read on me. When I look at your posts however, you were arguing with me a lot yesterday and pointed out several posts you found indicative of a scum-aligned player, yet you never actually vote me at any point and continue to push others. So while that allays any concerns of your forgetting your read on me or something, it makes me notice and find suspicious how your scumhunting focus isn't followed by your votes.

Also, you don't seem to have learnt anything from Metrion's flip and are pushing the same players. I remember you accusing me of doing that on d2,

but I actually think it applies a lot more here!

Explain.

[FA_Q2]

That brings me right back to moosey and rask.

VOTE: moosey

I tire of this slot getting a pass for no reason. Mossey was also off the one scum we lynched and on the one town we lynched.

What changed your mind on ira?

Nothing really. Those 2 slots are more scummy at this point IMHO.

When I first read this, I was a bit taken aback because from memory I thought you had a strong scum-aligned read on me. When I look at your posts however, you were arguing with me a lot yesterday and pointed out several posts you found indicative of a scum-aligned player, yet you never actually vote me at any point and continue to push others. So while that allays any concerns of your forgetting your read on me or something, it makes me notice and find suspicious how your scumhunting focus isn't followed by your votes.

Also, you don't seem to have learnt anything from Metrion's flip and are pushing the same players. I remember you accusing me of doing that on d2,

but I actually think it applies a lot more here!

Explain.

When you accused me of pushing the same reads without considering what the flip meant, I actually had considered what the flip meant in 504. Where as you have just returned to your previous vote on Moosy without even acknowledging Metrion's flip at all.

I find this very scummy as scum have a reason to avoid looking inconstant. A scum flip on a town read *should* cause you to re-evaluate your original positions, not entrench them. Point out those soft defense posts you infer about. I believe this is the first time you mention them.

But actually yeah, whatever. When I look back I don't think it's particularly alignment indicative here or in relation to me on d2, I think I just pointed it out to fuel a petty argument about "faq2 is such hipocrat!!" or something.

Pure reactionary to discredit me. And you wonder why I peg you as possibly scum.

You see, you reinforced your scum reads after a SCUM slip - a scum slip that you had a town read on. Somehow that had no bearing on your scum reads and interactions were rather meaningless to you. Further, I scum read rak, moosey and you, three players that were both off the scum lynch and on the town lynch. Why would that particular town read change my scum read on the three of you? You have been wrong about everything thus far ira - everything. And you don't seem to even notice.

[FA_Q2]

I'm having a hard time with the associations because I wasn't there for the CN wagon and I'm not sure I can judge it as well as you guys have. I know I didn't like TheCow but his replacement isn't here yet, and you guys are confusing to me. OK dave went on CN's wagon instead of the counterwagon, I've done this as scum before. FA_Q2 went hard for CN so he's prob town but I don't get a town vibe from his posts. I know there's 2 scum and assuming TheCow(slot) is 1 of them I don't see anyone obvious as the other one.

iraonavp
MoosyDoosy

Syndesis
FA_Q2

(almost all of this is from him wagoning CN d1)

Soapbar

davesaz

Burning_Earth (TheCow slot)

I'm sort of lost right now and just want to sheep my townread in iraon. I really hope I'm not just being fooled by charisma or something in my read on him.

What makes dave tempting is his play day 2 flip flopping, at some point his read just got far worse on metrion when he was wagoned, despite him being afk and so there wasn't new information to justify such a change. Minor note is I haven't seen him vote or try to get scumhunt so far today either (d3), though it is a minor tell i have seen town even in these situations wait back a bit for more info before deciding.

Looking back soapbar's kind of similar minus the waffling. He was very apathetic day 2 and I feel like here too he's sort of complacent. I guess he was afk but he just sat on his dave vote which was clearly not going anywhere at the time and he barely interacted with the other events. He like dave also as a small positive went on CN instead of the viable FA_Q2 wagon, and again I don't know how much credit to give them for it. I know for example my slot was on the wrong wagon at that point so I don't want to weigh whether someone joined the CN wagon around halfway/past or if they didn't for too much.

I haven't ISO'd syndesis but from the time I've been here I like his posts and even his effort/methodology on his wagon on me despite it being wrong. He'd be even better but idk why he townreads dave and doesn't like soap. A tiny bit of him not liking soap seems to even be because soap doesn't like dave which is a weird reason to not like soap for. Now that I think about it if we get dave and he flips scum syn will be worse off, I'd personally still rather go for TheCow(slot) than dave if the guy was here though.

I have not liked your slot all game and your hard buddying ira certainly is not helping this. Your lackluster excuse for doing so makes it even worse. That is a really waffling 'reason' to place him as town. Something you can distance yourself from if you needed to.

LOL's entrance was also horrendous.

VOTE: Raskolnikov

[FA_Q2]

You see, you reinforced your scum reads after a SCUM slip - a scum slip that you had a town read on.

Sorry, could you clarify? I seem to have missed this.

Typo - scum

FLIP

[FA_Q2]

Additionally:

- Why aren't you voting?
- Do you really think CN's attitude towards Moosy on D1 reflects them being on the same team?

I am voting. I unvoted earlier because it was not accomplishing anything. Cant build pressure alone and town simply is not interested in going there.

My issues with moosey have been steeped in the fact that he plays chaotically. I don't think anything he has said really has any bearing on his alignment in general. I tend to be rather dubious of players that intentionally make themselves impossible to read. Sometimes pressure will correct that problem - apparently not in this case.

[FA_Q2]

FA_Q2 what do you think about dave and soapbar, I haven't seen you say anything about dave since day 1 and nothing about soap all game. Actually a bit odd now that I think about.

Dave is more town for me. He was late on CN but he is rather well thought out and methodical. I tend to lean town on players like that. Nothing has struck me as inconsistent. Soap is barely even in the game. Some mediocer points but essentially a blank spot.

Do you have a decent case on either of those players?

[FA_Q2]

Your vote on me based on this lame misconstruing of my action + not liking my slot on game is pretty garbage and you should reconsider.

It's pretty much the same as mine. Is mine garbage/why are you not calling out the originator of this push?

I have had a theory on that but I want to hear his response first.

[FA_Q2]

I tend to lean town on players like that.

That's an odd choice of words. Would "players like that tend to be town" fit better in this context?

Not really.

Good scum players pull this off rather well and I have a hard time reading them properly.

[FA_Q2]

LOL's entrance was also horrendous.

Sorry if you've explained this before but could you explain why or at least point me to the post where you explain why?

With CN's flip lolbabe looks really bad to me. Yesterday she seemed to be avoiding the whole CN wagon as much as possible only commenting on it when forced to. Her push on me was manufactured. There were legitimate votes on me but lol was not one of them. I think her 'case' was contrived to push her partners counter wagon as it was a real possibility that I was going to be lynched instead. She soft defended CN and really avoided taking a hard stance on him.

VOTE: lolbabe

[FA_Q2]

There is definitely 1 scum in
[iraonavp, FA]

but probably 2.

What happened to your Dave read? Are you thinking he is town now?

[FA_Q2]

I don't actually know why I voted FA in that post.

UNVOTE:

WTF is this. Voting me and then running away the instant that you are challenged on it?

[FA_Q2]

Well, go ahead and lynch me then. Clearly town does not give a fuck anymore.
Ras is scummy as hell. TSQ really is not any better. Your read on me is shit. Soaps last actions was scummy as well and he has not done much for town this game at all.

I think a likely pair is Ras TSQ - Ras has been feeling me out as a possible lynch for awhile now and I think it has to do with seeing how much traction they can get. I can concive both scum playing together at this point because it would be devistating to lose a second scum partner at this stage to many town players to be down to a single scum.

[FA_Q2]

Looking at FA's 922, it

is

reminiscent of frustrated town. (I said this about CN too, so take that with a grain of salt. ) However...I'm not sure what it is about it that's bothering me, but

something

is. Could just be tonal, though.

And that sums the ENTIRE argument used against me up.

SOMETHING - no one anywhere seems to know - is wrong with FA's posts. The words to describe that will likely get me banned so I wont state them.

[FA_Q2]

Looking at FA's 922, it

is

reminiscent of frustrated town. (I said this about CN too, so take that with a grain of salt. ) However...I'm not sure what it is about it that's bothering me, but

something

is. Could just be tonal, though.

And that sums the ENTIRE argument used against me up.

SOMETHING - no one anywhere seems to know - is wrong with FA's posts. The words to describe that will likely get me banned so I wont state them.

Well...

Perhaps this very post exemplifies an aspect of your tone, with the whole indignance-that-feels-unwarranted-and-overdefensive thing I am detecting. When you say that it's the "ENTIRE" argument against you, it's like that's really clearly not true and exaggeratory but you almost want us to think that you're just really stubborn and think that? I barely passed English poetry analysis crap many years ago so sorry I can't be more clear.

Clearly though no one has been able to construct an actual case.

Its not exaggerating at all.

[FA_Q2]

I agree entirely, let's lynch davesaz.

Why are you voting me and pushing for dave?

[FA_Q2]

I'm not.

? Then what was the above?

[FA_Q2]

That looks disconcertingly like rolefishing.

I don't think it necessarily is, though.

Why?

I cannot see that as anything but a roll fish.

[FA_Q2]

Sure, my body of work might seem like I'm playing a bit guarded, but anyone who has seen me before should know right away it's not my scum game.
If we had some actual leads on scum, like a guilty or something, it would be much easier to solve this thing.
Even some kind of proof who isn't scum would help a lot.

I have not seen your scum game as far as I know but this does not really look like the town dave that I remember.

[FA_Q2]

Spoiler: for the mod

@

Everyone

: who would you be willing to compromise onto? If applicable, why? Is there anyone you will absolutely not vote?

I think that at this time you are likely the only player I will not vote for. Dave or soap are possible compromises. Dave is looking worse and soap is not really even here.

[FA_Q2]

At this point a mass claim is not a bad idea. Particularly considering that several PR's already outed themselves. If we popcorn it seems as though ira went first so you need to pick the next one.

[FA_Q2]

VT

[FA_Q2]

Soapbar

[FA_Q2]

My claim is not fake. If town decide to lynch me they deserve to lose.

And who have you been guarding all this time?

You also avoided the question about why you did not guard a claimed PR day one?

[FA_Q2]

Of all the clams dave's does seem the most unlikely. I don't see soap's claim as likely false unless TSQ and Soap are the scum team in which I think we are fucked then anyway. We could verify dave's role though - he guards TSQ and TSQ cops him. Scum will kill me or synd or Dave eliminating one of the scum pool. (dave is either cleared or dead).

This assumes that me, synd and tsq are town.

Lynch pool becomes: Dave, Soap and ira.

No lynch:
If dave dies and the rest of us live, Soap and Ira confirmed scum - we win.
If synd or I die, Dave is cleared by TSQ - Soap and Ira confirmed scum - we win.

If synd or I die, Dave is found guilty by TSQ - Dave is lynched and we must find the last scum.
If TSQ dies, Dave is confirmed scum and we must find the last scum.
None of the lynch pool will die unless scum want to throw the game.
In the last 3 scenarios we would be left with a confirmed town, a scum and a town between soap and ira. I think this is possibly the best scenario that we can hope for - we win if dave is telling the truth and we are left with a 50/50 should he be lying. I think the only real options here are to lynch Dave or a no lynch. There is also the problem if scum have some PR's. They have to have something - if we actually have a BG, Cop and JOAT? Town already seems rather stacked. One reason that lynching dave might be a better call than a no lynch...

The other option is that TSQ is lying and then, IMHO, we have already lost.

[FA_Q2]

Although the enabler might be the counter balance as well. Setup speck is just getting me to WIFOM though so that is enough of that.

[FA_Q2]

not to mention I guessed correctly that it was fake in the first place

And is there any indication that you thought his claim was faked?

And, for the last time - tell us your targets.

[FA_Q2]

None, because no pr (other than hawk) had claimed.
I chose not to bg hawk because i wanted to save it for a cop.
Once again, density is amazing.

So you chose not to BG anyone.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

[FA_Q2]

Because?

[FA_Q2]

you avoided the question.

I have never seen town dave avoid a topic so damn thoroughly. I don't really see why you are resistant to the idea if a no lynch anyway - you are the only one that is going to get lynched today.

[FA_Q2]

you avoided the question.

I have never seen town dave avoid a topic so damn thoroughly. I don't really see why you are resistant to the idea if a no lynch anyway - you are the only one that is going to get lynched today.

I will repeat, lynching me is one of the few ways that town can lose this game. I'm gonna probably take a bullet for the cop, who

should

investigate someone else to get a firm guilty.
You haven't seen me so thoroughly pissed off at a town before. If I tried to telegraph my alignment any harder it might cross over into trust tell territory. What scum says they have

no

town reads?
RC probably knew something and we could have probably lynched scum yesterday. I can get playing scummy so as not to get NK'd, but that slot took it too far.

I don't think RC knew anything or he was at least not sharing. One of his roles was neighborizer which was used on me. He also claimed that was his only role. The only thing brought up in the hood was that he wanted to go after synd today and possibly TSQ.

Considering that TSQ states that synd is town I don't think that any of his other powers gave any real information.

[FA_Q2]

you avoided the question.

I have never seen town dave avoid a topic so damn thoroughly. I don't really see why you are resistant to the idea if a no lynch anyway - you are the only one that is going to get lynched today.

I will repeat, lynching me is one of the few ways that town can lose this game. I'm gonna probably take a bullet for the cop, who

should

investigate someone else to get a firm guilty.
You haven't seen me so thoroughly pissed off at a town before. If I tried to telegraph my alignment any harder it might cross over into trust tell territory. What scum says they have

no

town reads?
RC probably knew something and we could have probably lynched scum yesterday. I can get playing scummy so as not to get NK'd, but that slot took it too far.

And I will repeat that you avoid the question and dance around the topic that what your analysis is on what is going to make town lose is utterly worthless. What makes you think that town will trust you?

[FA_Q2]

I am sure that you will.

I cant see a town Dave though and that is where I think town should go today.

VOTE: Dave

[FA_Q2]

UNVOTE:

I don't really see the inherent value of not lynching the obvious scum but whatever - we can go that rout and when you die we are going to lynch dave anyway. Better hope that scum do not have a RB - that is an instant loss as well with a no lynch.

[FA_Q2]

I don't think RC knew anything or he was at least not sharing. One of his roles was neighborizer which was used on me. He also claimed that was his only role. The only thing brought up in the hood was that he wanted to go after synd today and possibly TSQ.

Please elaborate.

What is not clear. He used a neighborizer role on me and we spoke. He shared noting about his other possible roles. He wanted to push on you and TSQ showing that he really had no more info.

[FA_Q2]

This is what I consider the most likely possibility based on their behavior. I think you may have missed some context!

Is any scumteam so dysfunctional that they don't plan out claims beforehand?

What is not clear. He used a neighborizer role on me and we spoke. He shared noting about his other possible roles. He wanted to push on you and TSQ showing that he really had no more info.

Was this last night? Did RC give a reason for neighborizing you? If not, what do you think it was?

No, it was moosey on day 2. It was the core reason that I changed tone on him rather quickly with what little excuse I could muster. unfortunately I did not see the PM until after day 3 had started and did not get to use the thread the first day (sorry moosey of you are still reading). He claimed that he neighborized me because he thought I was town. RC claimed the same but clammed up really quickly when we started to talk last night. No idea why. Both of them perpetuated the claim that there was nothing more to their role than just a neighborizer.

[FA_Q2]

VOTE: no lynch

[FA_Q2]

I assume a RB. It is optimal for scum to do what we do not expect if they are able to sow doubt. That leaves Dave up for debate this day rather than a clear cut scum. Better chance for them both to survive.

[FA_Q2]

You are claiming that you were neither RB or killed...

That makes no sense whatsoever. Why would scum throw a game away that they were so close to winning?

[FA_Q2]

That is why I said you needed to cop dave....

Shameful lose. We hit scum day one and still could not pull this through. Nice work scum team.