Mini 1762: Game Over

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey!

That's fair

VOTE: Rasko

Obvscum is obvious.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: tojam2

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nino an alt?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Funny that, that's exactly what I was thinking.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I feel like tojam should be gaining votes for his awful self-vote.

Where are the votes?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No u

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Oh. We're actually going to do this?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, I'll ignore you.

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OK, this Nino is annoying.

Can feel a policy lynch coming on.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, just don't be annoying.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

A) you think a wagon would go through because you'e annoying?

B) you think I would allow such a wagon to go through?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I am scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm going to go asleep now.

This wagon looks fun though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm going to go asleep now.

This wagon looks fun though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Kirroha

L-1.

I might read the game at some point.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No u.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why not vote me then?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

About how much you dislike it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh, well that's very fence-sitty.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Guess I'll read this tonight then.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm a leading wagon.

Man, I really should read this game at some point.

Currently pre occupied though, some time soon I promise!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not a game thrower you crazy person.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why am I being voted again?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I will do when I have a chance to read it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right, and I haven't had time to read yet.

I will get to it tonight after work.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah man, it's cool, I really should have read something by page 15. I just had a bunch of games start at the same time so I'm working through them.

I'll get to this tonight. Page 15 already though...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will catch up on this today at some point. Will try to start before the football and carry on later tonight.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Gonna start catching up with this now. Apologies for being late, super busy weekend.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

RC, you're so boring.

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Hey, I have two town reads from page 1! How about that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, from the first 5 pages.

Kirroha/BBT are my primary scumreads atm.

How horribly bad of you. You should talk about these reads because Kirr is town as fuck.

Kirroha is being absolute nonsense right now.

VOTE: Kirroha

Ewwwwwww.

This is RVS.

There's no issues with the speed of the wagon.

I think Kirroha's excessive concern here is likely scum-indicative,

possibly

because they are buddies.

Except for it wasn't? People were very clearly expressing real concerns with my slot - that's not RVS. Trying to brush it under the carpet as such is scummy.

So if what you are saying is true, kirroha is only likely to be scum if BBT is scum, and is scared that he might be getting lynched.

So this doesn't line up with your town read on Kirr? Like, you think I'm scum and you think Kirr's actions only make sense if she is scum with me, but you're town reading her...what??? Based on your own analysis, if you believe me to be scum then by extension you should believe Kirr to be scum...what am I missing?

BBT and kirroha are both pretty good votes.

kirroha's 75 is disconcerting. I agree with RC in that the way she expressed concern over the wagon is likely scum-indicative, but it's dependent on how kirroha follows up that concern as well. Given her claim that there are likely scum on the BBT wagon given how fast it popped up, I'm curious to see what names she specifically indicts.

I actually really don't like BBT's opening, I was posting from class earlier and thought it was kinda weird but thinking more about it I really don't like characterizing tojam's selfvote as awful. It was pretty neutral-looking to me. I'm not sure how you can connect that selfvote to an increased likelihood of being scum (unless by awful he meant that it was bad play in which case I'm not sure why he was calling for more votes).

I don't see how what Kirr did is scummy - I think it was a legit observation. I mean, are you saying you have a problem with me because I use over exaggerative language? Because that's what it looks like.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Talk about how Kirr was scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How boring.

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Most of my early game tells are suggesting ur town which is directly going against my gut.

aw man shit happened while I wasn't here.

Hrm.

Not sure what to make of a super early softclaim. Or iai's speculation on it. Pretty much the only thing coming strongly out of this is a townread on rc which is nice to have.

So, umm, I feel asleep when catching up last night.

Continuing now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Whoops, those quotes shouldn't be there.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Kirroha

L-1.

I might read the game at some point.

BBT what? You say Kirro is "town as f***" in the post you just made at the top of this page after reading 5 pages, but you voted Kirro on page 6. This does not make any sense.

I mean, if you look right there it says I haven't even read the game.

Like, it's right there.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Most of my early game tells are suggesting ur town which is directly going against my gut.

aw man shit happened while I wasn't here.

Hrm.

Not sure what to make of a super early softclaim. Or iai's speculation on it. Pretty much the only thing coming strongly out of this is a townread on rc which is nice to have.

So I'm torn between a BBT lynch and a kirroha lynch, seen as I don't have a lot of time, I've read from page 8 forward.

Unvote

The reasoning against kirroha in 200 is pretty poor so:
VOTE: Vote:BBT
VOTE: Vote:BBT

Testing if 'v' works, ignore the fact there's 2.

Counted votes quickly. I don't mind putting BBT on L-2.

VOTE: BBT

That's exactly what I am saying.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fuckkkkkkkk!

I'm catching up, sorry about all these quotes (they're from another tab so I don't know how the fuck it's doing this)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

From like page 4 to where I voted you - didn't read a single thing.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Saw the VC and thought it would be fun to put you to L-1.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not sure what to make of a super early softclaim. Or iai's speculation on it. Pretty much the only thing coming strongly out of this is a townread on rc which is nice to have.

Explain this town read on RC?

So I'm torn between a BBT lynch and a kirroha lynch, seen as I don't have a lot of time, I've read from page 8 forward.

VOTE: Vote:BBT

So, you have read from page 8 forward where I don't think I had made a single post? And then you vote me? You're gonna have to walk me through this one.

Counted votes quickly. I don't mind putting BBT on L-2.

VOTE: BBT

Is this still about that policy lynch because that's becoming pretty stale when there are a whole host of other things going on.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Got to the end of page 12 and have a few thoughts on this game;

Nino needs to explain how his reads on Kirr/myself lined up - I have questioned it earlier in my ISO because those reads did not correlate the way they should have. Nino, can you also talk about what happened to your scum reads on Syn and ink from 130 to your subsequent vote on me in 243.

Kirr is town as fuck and once I have caught up I plan on looking at both her and my wagons to see who was on both and why.

Unsure on Short, need to see more from them. Rasko needs to start doing things. Even though he hasn't done much, I have a very slight town lean.

I am conflicted on implosion. I think his push on Kirr was really bad but at the end of it I think he genuinely believed he had found scum? Like, it felt like a town push. I don't know, gonna need some time for this one.

RC is playing as scummy as always - he has a few posts that have pinged me though so I'm keeping an eye on him. Town reads on him make 0 sense to me (the last time this happened, RC was scum and I was the only one who seen it).

I really like IAI's push on Rubixx, I'm down with that. I also liked that he stepped away from both major wagons (myself and Kirr). I doubt he would need to do that as scum, solid town read here.

Syn's reads he gave were awful and he might be scum.

I liked ink's entrance and haven't really had anything that's pinged me as scummy. Town read.

Rubixx I think is scum. I will elaborate on this more but I think he was trying to emulate a tell from another game that has just finished and he did it horribly wrong. He is fluff posting, and when he tries to post content it feels contrived. Probably my strongest scum read.

KTS is a lean town read, I liked his push for activity and I also liked his impulsive voting (something scum don't usually do).

That should be everyone, I'm going to continue my catch up but my town pool is growing and as such my lynch pool is narrowing.

Cool stuff, huh?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The one game I've read of BBT, he was crazy active and pushing everything as Town. Here it's like a complete difference and lurking/active lurking? Idk all these terms fully and don't really care to know but what I do know is this shift of BBT's personality.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bbt

Using meta to read me is bad. Using meta from one game is even worse.

What game was it, when did you read it and why did you read it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Pages 12-16 were boring as fuck.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I liked Kirr's push on Short though and she has a point about there seeming to be a resistance to wagon him despite people not liking the slot.

RC suddenly wanting to push on IAI was gross as well, RC could easily be scum here.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm going to stop because I know people will start skimming my posts and I don't want that.

Will let the thread breathe for a bit and then return to finish the last 6 pages.

Rubixx, RC and Short are looking like good lynch options right now though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Rubixx

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not moving my vote anywhere.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Forgot to catch up on the last 6 pages. Will do so first thing in the morning!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Rubixxx seems somewhat town. Mostly gut though. Can elaborate if desired.

Would love you too.

Okay so I'm pretty new, so I'm not exactly sure what the "standard" is for read lists. Apparently it's kind of a quirk of mine to put more people as scum than can possibly be feasible. That's not an accident! I find limiting myself to 2 or 3 scum reads is way too restrictive, and I also don't want to risk having people question me if I vote for someone that I previously said was null.

Having everyone I think MIGHT be scum as scum on my list allows breathing room, so until I get enough experience to refine my methods, this is the system I'm going to use. However, I'll always put those that I think are the most likely of actually BEING the scum team at the top of my list.

Reads inbound...

Oh my, you sure are playing your newb card pretty hard. You had no trouble scum hunting, getting invested, giving reads in the last game we played. What's so different this time around?

Annnnd now I don't feel like doing the reads list anymore. Way to be, self.

It'll come around eventually, but for now, my top two scumreads would be Toejam and Shortcut. Inactivity doesn't always eaual scumminess, but the way those two are doing it makes me hella suspicious.

Yeah, those aren't opportunistic reads at all. What a surprise that the reads-list didn't come. We're lynching Rubixx Today, no questions asked.

I mean, just look how generic and vague his accusations are.

Nino, you're right about Shortcut. I'm switching votes, not because I don't think that Toejam is any LESS scummy, but because Shortcut literally is looking worse and worse by the hour.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shortcut

More opportunism. Please lynch this.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE: whatever his face
VOTE: ShortcutButton

Where did this come from?

You wanted reads:

Syndesis - still no reason for vote (please quote if I missed it). - slight scum lean
RC - please shut up, but actually doing useful stuff, the argument with BBT has provided lots of new info. - null
BBT - for the recent bout of inactivity, there's not much to go on. - null
Rubixxx - how long have we been waiting for those reads. - scum lean VOTE: Rubixxx (he's my best shot).
Shortcut - giving up his slot in hope the next person can recover it - scum lean

Do you have any town reads?

Can you tell me what information you think the 'argument' between myself and RC produced?

We're not lynching Rubixx period.

Stop.

Yeah, we are.

I would like to lynch within {SBslot, TJ, IAI, BBT} today.

You should talk about these reads.

We still have 7 days left, should we want until the near the deadline to lynch? Is it common to wait until deadline? I will like to wait so we can have more information to read later, but if it is uncommon to wait until deadline we can do lynching earlier.

Senpai, why do you say Rubixx must not be lynched? ink, BBT, TJ, why do you want to lynch Rubixxx?

I think we're easily within lynch range now. We have 23 pages of information, just because we have more time it doesn't mean we need to use it. We need to keep the game manageable and re-readable.

Case on Rubixx is incoming though I feel I have pointed out the majority of things already.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Rubixxx looks really good after the reads.

Really? His reads-list was horrible, what did you like about it?

@bbt I think 183 was part of it but I don't remember what I saw in it that was strongly town. There was something but I don't remember and it doesn't look particularly town looking back.

I can't see how you got town from 183 at all...

Pretty sure the scum team is kill/rubix/implosion, tho there's a slight chance it could be RC instead of implosion.

You should join the Rubixx wagon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, I'm fully caught up.

Will present a 'case' for why Rubixx is Today's lynch choice.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, so first of all he contributed nothing in the first 8 pages. He just fluff posted by doing very little, not super scummy but enough to at least draw my attention.

His first real content (use that loosely) is him saying that he has no reads and everyone is null (133). He attempts to provide a real reads-list in 209 because someone asked him to (appeasement?), but it's lacking any sort of useful insight. He writes 3 lines on KTS and doesn't even state a read on him, is it a town read? He says RC could be scum but then again it's D1 so he is null...what??? Again, his read on Kirr is strange (she is a scum read, but scum could also be pushing her wagon and it built quickly).

There is a very clear common factor throughout his reads - a lack of conviction. This obviously allows him to change reads on a whim should he ever need to. All of his reads are null/town, null/scum, town-ish, scum-ish. It's very rare he actually takes a solid stance on someone, this continues for much of the game so far.

255 is just awful. I feel like I don't need to explain this one.

OK, now we're getting to the good stuff. In 433, he is playing the newb card hard. Now, I have only just recently finished a game with Rubixx and I can assure you he had no problems getting stuck in. I understand there is a difference between a Newbie game and a Normal, but he is easily capable of transferring what I saw in the Newbie to here (this is the game, http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ser_select).

If anyone actually bothers to read Rubixxx's ISO in that game I want you to compare something. Look at Rubixxx's aggressiveness in that newbie and compare it to this one. In the Newbie, it was genuine and off the cuff. Here, it feels forced. The reason I'm bringing this up? Rubixx asked this at the end of our previous game;

I have more questions regarding my play, or rather everyone's perceptions of my play.

1) I didn't want to jinx it, but why did my weird blow-up on post 137 convince everyone I was town? I mean, I was, but how is acting like a shitty baby a town-tell?

I believe Rubixxx is trying to emulate that play in this game. Compare his posting and you can see a clear difference in how he goes about it.

His latest scum reads and votes (466, 498, 535) are all opportunistic and horribly timed.

Lynch Rubixxx Today for a better town!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VC's seem sparse in this game...

tojam, are you voting Rubixxx? If not, would you like to?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's it? That's all you're responding to?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You should know that no matter what you write I am not unvoting you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm getting that feeling as well.

UNVOTE: Rubixxx

[BlueBloodedToffee]

True stories are the best stories.

Nobody drives a wagon quite like me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't think any of those 3 are scum.

Implosion, KTS, RC, TG, and Rasko would be my lynch pool right now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Forgot to add Syn in there as well.

Lot of scummy people in this game. I think Rasko and TG are outside choices though.

Much prefer one of KTS, RC, implosion or Syn.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

RC, do you ever get bored of misreading me?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Tojam isn't a full on town read, but he looks like lynch-bait to me.

Ink and IAI are for sure town though.

VOTE: Taisho Gal

Let's do this. She has had long enough to post something.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't wanna lynch Nino either.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Taisho Gal is not a flashwagon haha.

That's funny.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ink, I think Rubixxx is town. If he is scum and he is using depression as a reason to try and sway other people's reads I'll be reporting him because that's bullshit.

I've only ever had one person go real low (lower than that) who turned out to be scum. I refuse to play with people like this, so for now, I'm going on the assumption that Rubixxx is genuine and wouldn't try that play as scum.

Let's lynch Taisho, that reeks of someone who replaced into a scum slot and doesn't want to play it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll be here tomorrow.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey guys, I'll try and get to this today. Super busy past few days and just not had the time. Bare with me.

FWIW, I don't think Rasko is scum. I got him lynched as scum D1 in our last game, and this is speculation, but I don't think scum!Rasko would try to push on me again. Would be much easier for him to avoid me and just kill me.

KTS and Taisho are fine wagons and I would be happy lynching either (preferably the inactive one).

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm in work but how the fuck is IAI the leading wagon? Like, what the fuck? I will try to get to this in about 2 hours but that shit is ridiculous.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We're not lynching IAI and we're not lynching a claimed PR either.

Taisho is clearly the days lynch. Come the fuck on.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

All 3 leading wagons suck ass and you should all feel bad.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Like, how are we not lynching Taisho here?

IAI, you should unvote. We have time to swing a wagon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Where has everyone gone?

Lynching IAI is pretty awful as he is clearly one of towns strongest assets.

Syn/Taisho are today's lynch choices.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, forgot about implosion. He is also a good lynch choice.

Kill and Rubixx are town though I think.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT gets lynched.

Fuck off trying to get me lynched every fucking game. Jesus Christ, it's boring as fuck RC, move the fuck on.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm serious RC, fuck right off with that shit.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can we swing an implosion wagon? Anyone interested in voting there?

PEdit - Nah, I think we can do it. People might still yet show up.

RC, you're a fucking idiot. Don't join any games that I'm in from now on please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mod, replace me.