Mini 1762: Game Over

[ink]

Kirroha/BBT are my primary scumreads atm.

On the basis that I asked questions about BBT? I'm feeling uncomfortable about his suggestion of Nino as a possible policy lynch, so I would be more than happy to vote him if he wasn't already at L-2. I'm curious as to whether Nino considers the same suggestion a scumtell, because that would reaffirm what I'm feeling from his post (i.e. trying to get a soft wagon started on Nino on the basis of 'policy'). Nino had 2 votes on her at that point, so I'm not buying BBT's implied "a wagon isn't going to start on you anyway" excuse.

Can't get much of a read on anyone else yet. I like Nino, though.

You like Nino? For what, yelling about how she's not an alt and not actually contributing thus far? And then the fact that you have no scumreads currently when there's plenty to pick apart?
VOTE: Kirroha

Not feeling good about BBT but the fact that his wagon moved so fast worries me. There must be scum on that wagon for it to progress as fast as it did.

I need to sleep as well.

Just because of how quick a wagon hits doesn't mean it should be taken much less seriously or even taken more seriously. It's just simply a wagon. I'm not sure why you used this to have a sense of direction regarding BBT, but I don't feel it's appropriate.

kirroha should be town. I think BBT is bad and you should keep your vote on him senpai.

wtf?

I think this vote is terrible, and not just because I'm now reading kirroha as town. Killthestory's efforts to justify her vote are very poor.

Perhaps the main thing I dislike here is how the confidence just feels... wrong, but it's difficult to quantify this.

The quoted post is more an attempt to attack kirroha than to show why they're scum.

VOTE: Killthestory

[ink]

My scumread on BBT is waning when I think about it more, however. Scum has the pretense of feeling cautious in these type of scenarious, and disregarding any meta a scum member theoretically would not bring himself to such attention unless, frankly, he's bat shit crazy or a good player.

Are you familiar with this concept?

[ink]

RadiantCowbells' posts give me a non-specific bad feeling. He hasn't done anything that gives me strong town feelings, either. I'm sure the joking about being scum wasn't intended seriously regardless of his alignment, but I can't shake the feeling that most of these posts have been an attempt to distract us from reading him.

Kirroha's 128 seemed quite town, actually.

I think that implosion, I Am Innocent, and NinoMasaki are town.

Rubixxx's reads are weird and I'm not sure what he's doing, but I like his self-assured tone.

I like some of ShortcutButton's posts, and dislike others.

[implosion]

My scumread on BBT is waning when I think about it more, however. Scum has the pretense of feeling cautious in these type of scenarious, and disregarding any meta a scum member theoretically would not bring himself to such attention unless, frankly, he's bat shit crazy or a good player.

Are you familiar with this concept?

I enjoy that i was skimming this and saw this post without reading what you were quoting and knew what you were linking to immediately >_>

As for kirroha 128 doesn't really make me feel much either way on her. Her softclaim is

really

scummy. I guess I'll wait for her to say more about it but I'll probably just explain it if no one else does and if she isn't willing to just claim it because if i could figure it out then a coordinated scumteam certainly can. Like there's

yet another

reason why this play makes no sense as town. I figured out the softclaim in like five minutes of looking. The entire point of a softclaim is that scum can't figure out what you are. Kirroha is a 2009 player who's making cogent arguments; I hate to invoke burden of proficiency but I would not expect Kirroha to make such a sloppy play as town, whereas it makes plenty of sense as scum (which, again, I'll explain if Kirroha refuses to hardclaim, but I'll give her a chance to if she wants).

[Rubixxx]

Just a quick reminder to everyone to pay attention to the pronouns you use to address peope, m'kay? I don't really care about my own, but it's just a matter of respect for others, yanno? Not everyone in this game is a "he". Just thought I'd say something because it was bugging me a lil'.

[kirroha]

Going to go back and read all the new posts. In the meantime, I'll respond to implosion's post first.

As for kirroha 128 doesn't really make me feel much either way on her. Her softclaim is really scummy. I guess I'll wait for her to say more about it but I'll probably just explain it if no one else does and if she isn't willing to just claim it because if i could figure it out then a coordinated scumteam certainly can. Like there's yet another reason why this play makes no sense as town. I figured out the softclaim in like five minutes of looking. The entire point of a softclaim is that scum can't figure out what you are. Kirroha is a 2009 player who's making cogent arguments; I hate to invoke burden of proficiency but I would not expect Kirroha to make such a sloppy play as town, whereas it makes plenty of sense as scum (which, again, I'll explain if Kirroha refuses to hardclaim, but I'll give her a chance to if she wants).

I need to clarify something.

I did not softclaim anything.

All I revealed was that I crumbed my role early in the game, and everyone started going back and trying to figure out what was it that I crumbed and making speculations (which are all wrong). I stated quite clearly that my crumb is in plain sight, but is impossible to figure out unless you know the language. I have deliberately also made it a crumb that isn't Google Translateable either, so that nobody will be able to tell what it is until I have to explain the crumb myself. Essentially, the crumb will only make sense after I am forced to claim.

This is so there is no way my crumb or the fact that I have a crumb would give any kind of extra information to scum.

Instead, it is a way for me to inform the rest of the town that I had a

consistent

role from the beginning, something which scum is unlikely to have. It doesn't necessarily mean a PR softclaim. I could've crumbed "vanilla townie" for all you know.

So I don't get your argument in that it isn't a legitimate action for me to take as town.

@Regarding me as a 2009 player: I just need to clear it up that I have only played 4 games on this site so far - 2 in 2009 and 1 in 2014. In all of them, I was either lynched early, or the game ended early for any other reason. While I'm not trying to excuse being a tentative or bad player, I hope you can consider this fact before anyone points out the fact that I don't play very well as being scummy because "if I'm town I would be better at this since I'm a 2009 player".

Anyway, Shortcut's latest posts are extremely scummy. He's my top scumread at the moment and I will explain why after I ISO him. Please tell me I'm not the only one who is seeing this.

VOTE: ShortcutButton before I start my analysis.

[kirroha]

I figured out the softclaim.

No, no you did not.

Can I please reiterate that

my crumb was in a language other than English

. If you managed to find some other "crumb" in my posts then you're just seeing something which isn't there. My crumb was not in English.

[kirroha]

Okay, time for an analysis. Shortcut is my top scumread right now because of how:

1) he flits from here and there with no actual reads,
2) subtly defends a few players in a way that can't be chalked up to an actual defense but is meant to shift focus from them nontheless,
3) keeps his vote parked on Nino (an RVS vote) all the way until I stated that I read his indecisiveness as scummy,
4) upon which he happily shifted his vote to me - with no reason,
5) and dismissively stating that my read on him was a "weak statement".

Vote-Hopping for a scummy reason

Infallible logic.

VOTE: nino

Original vote on Nino, first post. He kept it parked on her throughout until my post 128, where I was suspicious of Shortcut, upon which he immediately said this:

VOTE: Syndesis I agree that this is a better wagon to push (In My Honest Opinion). Who comes in, says nothing and jumps on the biggest wagon they can see?

People wishing to apply pressure.

Oh shit I was about to vote her. Since BBT hadn't read anything it looks like that would've been a quickhammer had I voted before. Good thing I didn't. Thanks me!

Bear in mind that this was right after my post (128) stating that I was suspicious of Shortcut for flitting about. He makes no actual remark regarding what he thinks of my actual post, but then immediately states that he wants to vote me (which he later did when my wagon lost a few votes).

Why would Shortcut suddenly want to vote me, when he didn't do so before? Did he suddenly find me scummy after my post? No, he said nothing of the sort. I saw no reason for him to actually decide to vote for me apart from the incredibly scummy thought process of "Oh shit, she thinks I'm suspicious for not voting her, well I better vote her."

VOTE: kirroha

placing my vote where the scum is

You don't like my quote? What a weak statement.

Then he voted me here, after a few people decided to unvote me. Without actually addressing my very fair dislike of his quote, because like I've mentioned above, what he's saying in his quote was essentially "Well I want to vote for you now that you mentioned I was scummy for not voting you". It is a very justifiable reaction to his sudden, unwarranted change in mind. If he thought he was scum from the beginning, then why didn't he place his vote on me from the very beginning? Why only AFTER I stated in post 128 that Shortcut is scummy for not voting me?

Other little tells which I didn't like from Shortcut:

I think he said he wouldn't allow this lynch to go through right up there.

This subtle attempt at deflecting attention from BBT.

People wishing to apply pressure.

This subtle attempt at deflecting attention from Syndesis, after Nino was suspicious of Syndesis for coming in and hopping onto the largest wagon.

Again, these two tells might mean many things. But what I'm actually feeling from them is that it's not a very towny defense to make.

If Shortcut was in fact town I see no motive from trying to reduce the pressure on BBT and Syndesis by speaking on their behalf

, and instead he should just simply wait for them to come in and defend themselves instead so that town can get more information on BBT and Syndesis' alignments. Whereas scum on the other hand would happily

1) subtly reduce pressure on their partners, if they are scum, or
2) subtly try to get on a townie's good side, if they are town.

Does nobody else think Shortcut is terribly scummy for this? Please tell me I'm not mad.

[kirroha]

My scumread on BBT is waning when I think about it more, however. Scum has the pretense of feeling cautious in these type of scenarious, and disregarding any meta a scum member theoretically would not bring himself to such attention unless, frankly, he's bat shit crazy or a good player.

I think this is definitely a null tell. How friendly or silly or jokey a player is depends quite a lot on how well they know the people around here. BBT who seems to know Radiant, yourself, Radko etc. would naturally be more jokey than a new player like Nino or someone who hasn't been here in 2 years like myself.

Kirroha:
A slight scumread for me if only because of Nino's defense of her. It seems odd to me how fast her wagon piled up, though. I feel like scum is both on her wagon pushing it for an easy lynch and defending it for the towncred once she flips. Really, really not liking this push against her at all.

Okay, what? You think I'm scum because Nino is defending me (i.e. you think I'm scum because of

someone else's actions

with regards to me). And you think scum is on my wagon. How does that make any sense?

[Syndesis]

I'm pretty sure your crumb isn't as good as you think it is

[kirroha]

I'm pretty sure your crumb isn't as good as you think it is

Maybe not. But I'm fairly positive that implosion got it wrong.

So your opinion is that a possibly sloppy early game crumb would make me scum?

Don't really like your reasoning on me in #200 still, but at least it's a reason. Shortcut is way scummier at this point.

[Raskolnikov]

kirroha can you vote BBT with us?

[tojam2]

So I'm torn between a BBT lynch and a kirroha lynch, seen as I don't have a lot of time, I've read from page 8 forward.

Unvote

The reasoning against kirroha in 200 is pretty poor so:
VOTE: Vote:BBT
VOTE: Vote:BBT

Testing if 'v' works, ignore the fact there's 2.

[tojam2]

In reply to comment 27: I have an on-going game related to the use of RNGs, so I can't talk about it, I'll explain once that game is done.

[NinoMasaki]

We need to stop talking about "Crumbs". This confusion is not productive. The only people that would benefit is scum. -_-

I want to lynch BBT. Apart from wanting to policy lynch me he contributed nothing. And yet killthestory said I "did nothing but yell"... I contributed at least. -_-

[NinoMasaki]

Mod: Vote count please?

[NinoMasaki]

Shortcut put kirroha at L-1 for no reason. It is very suspicious.

Kirroha is not scum. I am sick of repeating myself.

[NinoMasaki]

KIRROHA IS AT L-1. NOBODY VOTE ANYMORE OR YOU ARE SCUM -_-

[NinoMasaki]

Counted votes quickly. I don't mind putting BBT on L-2.

VOTE: BBT

[I Am Innocent]

unvote kirroha

for now

@mod I think you may have missed this unvote in your last vote count

@all catchup coming soon, at work right now

[ink]

BBT isn't even scummy at all.

If he's being wagoned during RVS for claiming scum then like, okay, fine. But that's ultimately null and he's done almost nothing else indicative enough to warrant seriously considering lynching him.

[I Am Innocent]

Ink where are you leaning?

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I'm null on BBT, so if we nearly run out of time I'd vote him over kirroha. It doesn't have to be a two-wagon thing though, I think there's a fair chance of them both being town.

I'd prefer to lynch one of Killthestory, RadiantCowbells or ShortcutButton.

That's not to say that I agree with the points kirroha raised about ShortcutButton, they're terrible.

[Killthestory]

Kill can you calm your goddamn face.

There's really no excuse for how hard you're ripping into Syndesis right now when she gave her reads.

I'm not yelling or even angry? If people misinterpret how I'm going to put down my points I'm not sure whether I want to play here. It just seems everyone loves to have dick riding contests about emotions rather than focusing on the meat of posts.

Anyway, you'd know if I were angry anyhow. But besides that, I was ripping in said player due to the fact that if asking for contribution is dictating how to play, then I'm not sure what you'd call an actual dictator?

What the actual fuck is going on. I blinked and this shitfest spawned like 30 more comments from the bowels of Satan himself.

What the fuck.

What the fuck.

Shit.

Instead of complaining about the lack of any actual contribution can you actually try to do something instead of shitting around in the backround

(Snipped)

So everyone who's shitting around should either replace out or start contributing since it's not in town motivation, and everyone who's complaining about those shitting around should do the same as well

Okay, but it's kind of hard to do shit when the thread is zooming along as ass-miles-per-hour due to people quoting song lyrics and shit.

And talk about the pot calling the kettle black! All you've done for the last 10 posts or so is insult just about everyone playing the game! You can fuck right off to your high horse, pal. If you asked a little nicer, people would probably actually heed your request.

LOL, R U SRS RN? That's such a shitty excuse it hurts. Does people posting prevent you from posting your own contribution? If not, then I fail to see where you're coming from.

Anyway, I've been asking people to contribute. "MAYBE IF YOU WERE NICER" yeah no, contribution is a major part of this game, and if I get flak for asking for it, then clearly this site isn't the place to play.

Kirroha/BBT are my primary scumreads atm.

On the basis that I asked questions about BBT? I'm feeling uncomfortable about his suggestion of Nino as a possible policy lynch, so I would be more than happy to vote him if he wasn't already at L-2. I'm curious as to whether Nino considers the same suggestion a scumtell, because that would reaffirm what I'm feeling from his post (i.e. trying to get a soft wagon started on Nino on the basis of 'policy'). Nino had 2 votes on her at that point, so I'm not buying BBT's implied "a wagon isn't going to start on you anyway" excuse.

Can't get much of a read on anyone else yet. I like Nino, though.

You like Nino? For what, yelling about how she's not an alt and not actually contributing thus far? And then the fact that you have no scumreads currently when there's plenty to pick apart?
VOTE: Kirroha

Not feeling good about BBT but the fact that his wagon moved so fast worries me. There must be scum on that wagon for it to progress as fast as it did.

I need to sleep as well.

Just because of how quick a wagon hits doesn't mean it should be taken much less seriously or even taken more seriously. It's just simply a wagon. I'm not sure why you used this to have a sense of direction regarding BBT, but I don't feel it's appropriate.

kirroha should be town. I think BBT is bad and you should keep your vote on him senpai.

wtf?

I think this vote is terrible, and not just because I'm now reading kirroha as town. Killthestory's efforts to justify her vote are very poor.

Perhaps the main thing I dislike here is how the confidence just feels... wrong, but it's difficult to quantify this.

The quoted post is more an attempt to attack kirroha than to show why they're scum.

VOTE: Killthestory

[Citation needed]

Confidence is wrong to you? Any townie should be exerting confidence? Do you disagree with this?

[Citation needed]

My scumread on BBT is waning when I think about it more, however. Scum has the pretense of feeling cautious in these type of scenarious, and disregarding any meta a scum member theoretically would not bring himself to such attention unless, frankly, he's bat shit crazy or a good player.

Are you familiar with this concept?

Any half decent player knows about WIFOM, and I took it into consideration. However, I don't think BBT's behaviour was tactically planned to cause such a ripple effect regarding how players thought past vs presently.

My scumread on BBT is waning when I think about it more, however. Scum has the pretense of feeling cautious in these type of scenarious, and disregarding any meta a scum member theoretically would not bring himself to such attention unless, frankly, he's bat shit crazy or a good player.

I think this is definitely a null tell. How friendly or silly or jokey a player is depends quite a lot on how well they know the people around here. BBT who seems to know Radiant, yourself, Radko etc. would naturally be more jokey than a new player like Nino or someone who hasn't been here in 2 years like myself.

If it were rehearsed, then I'd think it null/scum, but quite frankly I think it's a town member comfortable about his situation and exerting confidence regardless.

Generally, town members have a confidence, an aura you could say, where they know they won't be lynched. That is not true, but players still exhibit this tendency. BBT is confident and just as well seems to be exhibiting this.

Anyway, I don't know any of the players on this site as I'm new.

I'm null on BBT, so if we nearly run out of time I'd vote him over kirroha. It doesn't have to be a two-wagon thing though, I think there's a fair chance of them both being town.

I'd prefer to lynch one of Killthestory, RadiantCowbells or ShortcutButton.

That's not to say that I agree with the points kirroha raised about ShortcutButton, they're terrible.

Interesting, so you cHoose not to list your own reasonings for the lynch but then call the other person's terrible all the while not even explaining why?

And then you have another explained lynch and then me, which I failed to see how any of your points regarding me were even decent.

Question, do you think Ink's top lynches would be viable mislynches for scum to push?

Anyway I've responded to everything regarding myself, so I'll respond to other shit later when I'm off mobile and not as medicated.

[TheCow]

VC incoming