Borderlands Mafia [GAME OVER]

[SirCakez]

First!

Dammit Beeboy
VOTE: I_Am_Not_I_Am_Not_Varsoon
Is probably Varsoon on an alt.

[SirCakez]

I have the power to see the future confirmed.

[SirCakez]

That sheep looks suspicious. Titus is probably scum.

[SirCakez]

There must be wagons on all three Varsoons. We must determine the true one.

[SirCakez]

TSO has found two scum on page two, what a god.

[SirCakez]

We have achieved wagons on all Varsoons!
Side note: I'm actually surprised how slow the game has been so far with this size.

[SirCakez]

How is that indicative of scum TSO?

[SirCakez]

Leaning scum since Dwlee vote is for something not indicative of alignment at all.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: T S O
P-Edit: Not at all.

[SirCakez]

Is it bad I am town reading T S O o.o

I dislike the fact you felt the need to ask this.

[SirCakez]

Is it bad I am town reading T S O o.o

I dislike the fact you felt the need to ask this.

It was rhetorical question which is a statement. The push felt genuine considering we are only 1 page into the game.
I don't see scum trying to push players this early in the game.

Your post seems to be seeking approval from others which is what I dislike.

[SirCakez]

Your post seems to be seeking approval from others which is what I dislike.

It was a rhetorical question you are over thinking it.

It didn't appear as one to me.

Titus are you agreeing with TSO's reasons for voting Dwlee?

[SirCakez]

It's a Tarhalindur Tell, isn't it?

[SirCakez]

Why not put a vote on one of those people then?

[SirCakez]

Yup.

Varsoon why the caps spam?

[SirCakez]

Oh it was a different tell. I thought I might have had the wrong one since all of those old tells blend together for me but I didn't check.
And yeah I thought that was a pretty obvious joke.

[SirCakez]

You think your RVS vote on Suzune will go more places then someone who you think has rigid posts?

[SirCakez]

You think your RVS vote on Suzune will go more places then placed on someone who you think has rigid posts?

Edited for clarification.

[SirCakez]

I can't do grammar this late.

[SirCakez]

Dwlee is super awkward, especially 105 and 113, but I'm not sure if it's his playstyle or legitimate scumminess.
The GF crumb stuff needs to go away though, that would be absurd.

[SirCakez]

Then I'll put a vote down.
VOTE: Dwlee
Going to bed. Please don't explode the thread too much.

[SirCakez]

Yes Titus I went from questioning the votes on Dwlee to voting him. The initial votes on him were for not knowing how big the game is which is an asinine reason for votes. Then his posts started getting very defensive and awkward so the votes on him became better.

[SirCakez]

Was that the purpose of the initial vote then?

I feel like Dwlee isn't a very helpful player to be wagoning. But I'm not sure he's super helpful alive as a townie either. He's kind of a bad penny. Were you scum last time I played with you Dwlee?

@Titus, please make a brief textual post. If you refuse to, I am assuming you are claiming a post restriction.

This post is horrible. So much fence sitting.

[SirCakez]

Suzune seems town, dwee is being awkward but also seems new, I believe it looked like someone was trying to look useful early game and that pinged me a bit (think it was beeboy, I'll go check) and that's where I'm at right now.

Why is Suzune town?

[SirCakez]

Then why are you so eager to defuse the Dwlee wagon?

This is hypocritical considering you just unvoted him.

Yeah Dwlee's reaction to that reaction test was very town. Don't want to vote there anymore.
VOTE: popsofctown
Terrible posts and fence sitting.

[SirCakez]

Are you reading the game, Cakez?

Clearly I am. I'm saying it's hypocritical to call out someone for trying to defuse a wagon then hopping off that wagon a page later.

[SirCakez]

Are you reading the game, Cakez?

Clearly I am. I'm saying it's hypocritical to call out someone for trying to defuse a wagon then hop off that wagon a page later.

EBWOP for grammar

[SirCakez]

OK that line of logic makes more sense. I was approaching it differently.
Yes Dwleey

[SirCakez]

OK Peregrine is probably town.

[SirCakez]

Grapes, BRantz and Flubber have both made one post each, why are they null town?

[SirCakez]

Did you actually think NotNot was a dayvig here?

[SirCakez]

Grapes, BRantz and Flubber have both made one post each, why are they null town?

[SirCakez]

Dwlee's explanation sucks. I bought his reaction as townie because he said he'd never seen a fake dayvig before but that reaction is awful since he has seen one. And why would you immediately assume the one in that game was fake and this one was real?
VOTE: Dwlee

[SirCakez]

Pops is still a scumbutt but this takes priority now.

[SirCakez]

Gut reads from one post?
P-Edit: Pisskop what's up?

[SirCakez]

^ scum post.

[SirCakez]

Gut reads from one post?

Yep.

OK then.

Why Rob specifically Elyse?

[SirCakez]

So you're scumreading the people pushing the Dwlee wagon?

[SirCakez]

YT what is your read on Dwlee?
Titus if you have a post restriction to post in pictures post a cat meme as your next post.

[SirCakez]

YT you think the wagon is scum driven but your read on Dwlee is null leaning scum? How does that add up?

[SirCakez]

Titus is probably town then.
Interesting that YT admitted he contradicted himself. Not sure if it's indicative yet.

[SirCakez]

Rob notably didn't vote Dwlee until after TSO caught Dwlee's lie so it could be seen as begrudging. It did look reluctant to me.

[SirCakez]

I think Rob is town right now. The waiting so long to vote Dwlee was off but other then that I like his posts.
That initial post from BRantz was very town. Shared his reads and pushed the right people.
Wgeurts is also probably town but that's not as strong.
P-Edit:

[SirCakez]

Grapes why do you have Pisskop still sitting in null? There's enough to get a read off of him if you can get a read from Flubber's one post.

[SirCakez]

Peregrine why are you voting someone who hasn't posted since RVS?

[SirCakez]

That's an awful vote. Vote someone who's actually scummy.

[SirCakez]

So you're pushing him because his name is annoying?

[SirCakez]

Nah, because it looks like I'm coaching Dwlee which is fair enough as I am trying to help him out and improve his game for if he is town.

This is why he should be voting somewhere else.

[SirCakez]

OK not really sure what Peregrine is going for but it can slide for now.

[SirCakez]

No hammer yet please. Need to hear more from the people with 1 or 0 posts.

[SirCakez]

then don't vote on his wagon. Your posting doesn't make sense from town perspective atm.
vote: I_Am_Not_I_Am_Not_Varsoon.

His NotNot vote was serious though which is why it's bad.

[SirCakez]

I want Almost to get off his fence and take a stance.
Also want Venmar to get in here and do stuff.

[SirCakez]

I laughed.
But seriously no hammer yet until these lurksacks show up.

[SirCakez]

Wait didn't Starbuck siteflake? A replacement might be needed there if so.

[SirCakez]

Why would flavor keep someone from posting? Or do you just mean a post restriction?
And talk to us about Dwlee.

[SirCakez]

I was thinking you would have updated your case after finishing your read up so that's why I asked again.

[SirCakez]

That's Lowell's avatar, isn't it? But he's not in this game so if Titus wants him to post that makes no sense.

[SirCakez]

You thought Lowell was in the game and wanted him to post but just realized he isn't in the game and are facepalming?

[SirCakez]

OK cool that's what I thought.
Almost did you read the posts before yours?

[SirCakez]

It was stupid but it worked so w/e.

[SirCakez]

Titus you're town but your reads are bad please fix them.

[SirCakez]

Not really that clear considering multiple people had asked her if she had a PR with no response up to that point.

[SirCakez]

Are you really town reading Dwlee Nero?

[SirCakez]

Almost did you read the posts before yours?

Not between the time I read her 386 and the time I posted. OK.. so Titus is probably town in this game. I don't see a scum role having such a posting condition as hers, and it's far fetched to suspect she's pull this trick out of the blue.

P.S. NOT trusting ANYBODY, and not sheeping anybody's reads at this point. I don't care who the town sees as conf.town or obv.scum until I've found at least 3 conf.town from my own perspective, then I "might" start building on it to narrow down my list of suspects.

No I meant in this post you said

Guys, Titus is clearly telling us NOT to hammer, but rather wait for Dwlee to post.

But in the posts before

You thought Lowell was in the game and wanted him to post but just realized he isn't in the game and are facepalming?

So that wasn't what Titus was saying.

Are you really town reading Dwlee Nero?

holy shit putting words in my mouth. This dies at some point regardless of DW's flip.

Then what were you saying? It was the obvious implication.

[SirCakez]

Ok so what are your reads after composing that giant wall, Aafter?

[SirCakez]

Then what were you saying? It was the obvious implication.

no it wasn't. Me not hammering DW 'cause there's like no point to end the game day so early. Why are you so eager for it to end?

You quoted a post with me saying Titus's reads were bad and then my post voting Dwlee so I interpreted it as you saying my Dwlee vote was bad, which naturally leads to you townreading him.
And

I laughed.
But seriously no hammer yet until these lurksacks show up.

No hammer yet please. Need to hear more from the people with 1 or 0 posts.

[SirCakez]

I want Almost to get off his fence and take a stance.
Also want Venmar to get in here and do stuff.

Why me in particular?

Because you hadn't dropped any reads or pushes yet but had already made three posts.

[SirCakez]

Being playful/fluffy early game isn't a scum tell. If it was, practically everyone who posted on the first two pages would be scum.

[SirCakez]

I just found it super funny you are calling Titus' reads bad but still voting

WITH

her.

401 looks like she's scumreading me (mafia picture) and townreading Dwlee (normal happy guy picture). Which are two bad reads. Not sure why she's still voting Dwlee if that was a townread on Dwlee.

[SirCakez]

Still somewhat captching up but i'm going to change my vote to:

Vote: popsofctown

Voted Venmar for post 45. Dismissing ignorance of setup size having any impact on alignment seems like he skipped even considering it. The scum have a size of scumteam would indicate what the size of the overall game ought to be. If it's multiball, it could deceive a player on the size of the game.

Overall I think forgetting the setup side leans town, since it suggest the player didn't look at their scum size and try to ascertain whether they needed to play multiball or single ball. I'm okay with a player analyzing and coming to the opposite conclusion, but I'm rather leery of someone who has seemed not to think about it at all, and seems to be rushing to make sure they take a stance one way or another on it.

- I mean this is just wrong? First of all it's unfair to assume I just dismissed the idea and didn't consider it; he's just discrediting me to try and make a point that isn't there. To me, ignorance of game size isn't alignment indicative because mafia can fake it easily and stupid town do it too often. I don't think players base their play off of whether or not its singleball or multiball either, that seems very silly.

I see no reason why he'd even bring up multiball anyways unless he had somekind of a reason to suspect multiball?

His other post like others have said also reeks of horrible fencesitting and makes me uncomfortable.

For the record i'm also not a fan of TSO. Sketchy posts in general, not a fan of his Hammer warning post since it eases tension on the wagon and looks too much like an easy brownie points grab.

This is a very townie post. Venmar is a townread now.

[SirCakez]

I just found it super funny you are calling Titus' reads bad but still voting

WITH

her.

401 looks like she's scumreading me (mafia picture) and townreading Dwlee (normal happy guy picture). Which are two bad reads. Not sure why she's still voting Dwlee if that was a townread on Dwlee.

prob 'cause she was the one that started the DW wagon long before that reaction test lie thing and she still thinks he's scum. Titus thinks you are scum WITH DW. How much attention are putting into this game?

Then what the hell does the happy guy picture under Dwlee mean?
P-Edit: Oh that would make a lot of sense.

[SirCakez]

Thanks Titus
Almost who do you think the 3-4 mafia on the wagon are then?

[SirCakez]

Who are these other people Venmar? Don't just say "I find other people scummy" and not articulate who.

[SirCakez]

^ vig that please

[SirCakez]

Like are you fucking serious Varsoon what the hell?

[SirCakez]

Sorry that was a bit harsh but like seriously?

[SirCakez]

Who are these other people Venmar? Don't just say "I find other people scummy" and not articulate who.

I encourage you to read the game, it's not hard to guess that those people are popsofctown, the person i'm voting, and Rob, who I specifically singled out in post #445

I thought it would be more then just those two from the way you were speaking.

[SirCakez]

And I was looking forward to playing this game over the long weekend too :/

[SirCakez]

Beeboy what

[SirCakez]

Wow I'm dumb as shit.

[SirCakez]

[SirCakez]

Why are people so frustrating?

[SirCakez]

Almost what do you think of beeboy hammering just now?

[SirCakez]

Stop trying to reaction test me. Cause no matter what the fuck I react as you're just gonna call it scummy.

This reaction is scummy though. So much AtE.

DWLEE, GIVE US SOME READS.
OTHERWISE, RINSE YOUR MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP.

He did gives some reads a while back.

[SirCakez]

OK, yes I will concede that I've been half-reading, and that I haven't really thought to the best of my ability, yet.

Lol @ how quickly it took me to contradict myself. I'll come to a conclusion between the two later on when I really get the chance to look into things.

Unvote: not varsoon

because RVS vote.

What happened to this? Are you going to follow up?

Stop trying to reaction test me. Cause no matter what the fuck I react as you're just gonna call it scummy.

This reaction is scummy though. So much AtE.

Can't tell if you're being serious.

I'm very serious.

[SirCakez]

All of YT's posts are semantics and theory. No actual scumhunting or pushing reads.

[SirCakez]

YT, you aren't doing anything useful aside from talking about theory. You're still sitting on your RVS vote. You've made no pushes, no reads, nothing.

[SirCakez]

And I was looking forward to playing this game over the long weekend too :/

Canadian?

American. President's Day Weekend.

[SirCakez]

Almost what do you think of beeboy hammering just now?

Forget the hammer. beeboy is acting up in a pathetic way that I'm now reconsidering my null read on him. I also played with him once before but he sub-in in the middle of D1 and ended up being the lynch of D1 (he flipped scum), so basically I didn't/don't have much to compare his play to, but I'm getting the wrong vibes from him here.

P.S. You know I do keep a text file with remarks, counts and reads, don't you? I'm sure you know that from our previous game together.

Like the beeboy analysis.
Honestly I forgot about the text file but I do remember last game. When do you plan to share the contents of the file?

[SirCakez]

Dwlee when did YT say he was going to hammer?

[SirCakez]

I think it's L-1. T S O unvoted then voted again, and I see four other votes. You still have time to complete your bus if you care to, YT.

I will when I'm not at school, and can access a computer.

Nobody hammer.

No, I wasn't.

The second post was a misinterpretation of the term bussing according to 553, not an intent to hammer.

[SirCakez]

If someone legitimately hammers then it's basically a scum claim.
Now that the cat's out of the bag, I can say I really hate how YT used the hammer as an excuse to not post any reads or do any scumhunting.

[SirCakez]

I think it's L-1. T S O unvoted then voted again, and I see four other votes. You still have time to complete your bus if you care to, YT.

I will when I'm not at school, and can access a computer.

Nobody hammer.

No, I wasn't.

The second post was a misinterpretation of the term bussing according to 553, not an intent to hammer.

That makes no sense.

Then ask YT. It mostly makes sense to me.

[SirCakez]

He thought bussing referred to his analysis and meant he was going to finish his analysis when he got to a computer. That's what I construed.

[SirCakez]

When do you plan to share the contents of the file?

When it looks a bit tidier and actually has more reads that do not look like "null; null; null; nul; ..."

So fat only the 3 I mentioned I have reads on. I'm liking Venmar tbh, but I have yet to ISO him. Besides, all the players I've never played with I might need to do a quick search on them for previous games, and that takes time.

But if you insist on knowing my untidy scratch composition that doesn't even include doing ISOs yet:

A rate of ++ on each of CooLDoG & Elyse
A rate of + on YT2980 (before the recent posts)
A rate of - on TSO
A rate of -- on posp, grapes & Rob

The following didn't look too relevant, so I put it in a spoiler if you're interested.

Spoiler:

And -of course- I'm wary of the Starbuck slot. (OK, I've been told it's bad to look at inactives at the start of the game, so I'm keeping it a null on the official side, but I'm always wary of inactives anyway, and starbuck in particular lurked out on the 1st day of the one & only game I was in with him and he flipped a WW. I personally switched him with Persy on N1 & his WW vig partner shot him in Persy's stead).

Everybody else are unmarked

These reads are weird. Why is CoolDog high town and why is TSO scum lean?

[SirCakez]

Elyse needs to be doing more. Don't like how she just popped in, dropped a troll vote and left.

[SirCakez]

@Skullduggery - can you search for a replacement for Starbuck as they have appeared to have siteflaked?

[SirCakez]

how do you know she site flaked?

She hasn't posted in two weeks and I remember multiple mods asking for a replacement for her at once a while back.

[SirCakez]

The lie isn't even the main reason I'm scumreading Dwlee anymore. His reactions have just been full of AtE, overdefensiveness and he's not scumhunting except for YT. The lie is just the icing on the scummy cake.

[SirCakez]

AtE is not a scumtell.

Why not?

[SirCakez]

What is wrong with town hunting, cake?

You're not doing anything with your town hunt. You have a bunch of town reads ok, now go find scum.

[SirCakez]

These reads are weird. Why is CoolDog high town and why is TSO scum lean?

1- No such thing as a "high town" in these reads. ++ means I got two posts from him leaning town. That's all. However, pending an ISO I can't even remember which two posts (I'm still on and off in this game) and even if I did they'd be taken out of context bc I didn't really see where he was going with everything else.

2- TSO is a scum lean .. just bc (for now). I'm watching him closely to see which way he turns next. Telling you why/what now takes away my advantage of reading him correct. It's like.. "he did X; so if he does Y then follows it with Z he is likely scum. However, if his next move is B or C then it's more likely a false alarm". I'd rater wait until D2 on TSO in particular.

I took ++ as top town with how the list was constructed. Follow up on these on some point after you do your ISOs.

[SirCakez]

AtE is not a scumtell.

Why not?

Humans are naturally emotional creatures that will naturally respond to claims made against them emotionally if they believe said claims are unfair or untrue (which all townies will think, since they aren't scum).

Ok this makes sense, but I think Dwlee was really over the top about it. Beyond the level I think could reasonably come from anyone.

[SirCakez]

If it looks unnatural, then that's a valid scumtell. I don't really agree with it, since I think that's just his playstyle based on what I've seen of him in other games, but it's a tell that makes sense. I just hate when people say "AtE ergo scum" because it's probably the worst tell still in popular use on this site.

I mean I have no experience with his meta, so just from what I know here, yeah it looks unnatural.
This is a good point though because I do use AtE as town when I'm getting heavily pressured. It's a natural reaction to use some.

[SirCakez]

You know, cuz Im having some flashbacks to some newbie game or something.

Peregrine is usually a lurksack as scum, as seen in MGSV and YCBA IV. The fact he's active and pushing people here makes me pretty confident he's town.

That's an awful vote. Vote someone who's actually scummy.

Who are you to judge someone's vote, though? Or whether or not they're not scummy. I mean, really. They could be voting scum, and any pressure on a de facto scum player is beneficial. Not suggesting that I think they are, but still.
That's the beauty of a game like Mafia imo, town players can have so many different interpretations of things, and it's forming a union between those many interpretations that becomes vital.

I'm townreading Wgeurts/NotNot and I highly doubt right now there would be a wagon there today, so I wanted him to vote someone who was legitimately being scummy in thread, like Dwlee, Pops, Almost, etc.

[SirCakez]

What made you come to that conclusion? I couldn't really find anything alignment-indicative in their first couple of posts in the thread?

Peregrine is usually a lurksack as scum, as seen in MGSV and YCBA IV. The fact he's active and pushing people here makes me pretty confident he's town.

That's an awful vote. Vote someone who's actually scummy.

Who are you to judge someone's vote, though? Or whether or not they're not scummy. I mean, really. They could be voting scum, and any pressure on a de facto scum player is beneficial. Not suggesting that I think they are, but still.
That's the beauty of a game like Mafia imo, town players can have so many different interpretations of things, and it's forming a union between those many interpretations that becomes vital.

I'm townreading Wgeurts/NotNot and I highly doubt right now there would be a wagon there today, so I wanted him to vote someone who was legitimately being scummy in thread, like Dwlee, Pops, Almost, etc.

EBWOP The first quote was completely wrong for some reason. Fixed it.

[SirCakez]

Peregrine is usually a lurksack as scum, as seen in MGSV and YCBA IV.

Actually Peregrine just lurks most of the time. I wouldn't call him super active here either.

Better then in those two games to be sure though.

[SirCakez]

UNVOTE: Dwlee

Let's be honest he is prob town.

Wait what is this? Why?

[SirCakez]

Why would you be conf town exactly?

Well when Dwlee flips scum I will be showered in town reads for flash hammering him. Kinda like a pseudo conf town.

What happened to this?

[SirCakez]

What happened to this?

I was yelled at for ruining the fake hammer so I was just trolling.

So you didn't actually think he was highly likely to be scum at that point?

[SirCakez]

So you didn't actually think he was highly likely to be scum at that point?

I was set on him being town awhile ago, I just didn't see the harm in keeping my vote on him as no one would actually hammer.

What? This is terrible. Why would you stay voting a townread just because "no one would hammer" instead of moving your vote to someone you think is scum?

[SirCakez]

Beeboy what are your reads right now?

[SirCakez]

Ok so you do have some scumreads. Then why not vote one of those scumreads?

[SirCakez]

It does more then voting someone you think is town, no?

[SirCakez]

It does more then voting someone you think is town, no?

I have my vote on no one right now

But you were voting Dwlee before. You stated you had been townreading him for a while but kept your vote on him.

[SirCakez]

Even town are bound to screw up at some point if everyone keeps pointing fingers at them for the entire duration of the game. I don't even think he screwed up, he literally just forgot about a previous game.

Even if his forgetting of the dayvig was legit (which I doubt) the rest of his play has still been very scummy.

[SirCakez]

Varsoon I love your analysis of Dwlee but who else are you scumreading? Almost all of your posts focus on Dwlee and mention no one else.

[SirCakez]

Youre not reading

Well I am reading, but I am not really getting what I am expecting.

What does this mean?

[SirCakez]

@Sir Well, I am looking for something that let's me into his thinking so I can see where he is coming from. But I am having trouble with that.

Oh I misread your post. I thought that was a broad statement meaning you weren't finding what you were expecting overall in thread. This makes a lot more sense.

[SirCakez]

I used "I was tired" as a defense before once.

I was SK.

[SirCakez]

Scumslips are a human error. Those are pretty scummy.

[SirCakez]

I DIDN'T KNOW THE NAME OF THAT SONG UNTIL NOW THANK YOU VARSOON

[SirCakez]

VOTE: SirCakez

This makes me sad.

[SirCakez]

Beeboy you're trying to shut down this wagon, but you're offering no alternatives. Should we all just sit around on our votes doing nothing?

[SirCakez]

Beeboy you're trying to shut down this wagon, but you're offering no alternatives. Should we all just sit around on our votes doing nothing?

JUST BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A SOLID WAGON DOESN'T MEAN I WILL SIT BACK WHILE WE LYNCH TOWN THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. WHY ARE YOU SO INCLINED TO KILL SOMEONE FFS.

VOTE: SirCakez

Idk what Titus is thinking but here you go I am using my vote, happy?

This is a really terrible reaction.

[SirCakez]

Beeboy why are you trying to meta the mod?

[SirCakez]

Those are the towniest memes I've ever seen. Trying to meta the mod on whether they would use a post restriction or not is quite scummy. I also doubt Titus would try faking a post restriction as scum.

[SirCakez]

Ok Varsoon is town cool.

[SirCakez]

Rob why are you completely flipping out? Yeah beeboy is being super scummy right now but that doesn't warrant caps spam and swearing.

[SirCakez]

Dwlee is still the priority for me. Beeboy is second in line for a turn on the rope.
Elyse give us drunk reads.

[SirCakez]

OK Elyse go to bed and read up in the morning. Posting while wasted isn't going to do anything useful.

[SirCakez]

Going to bed.
P-Edit: What the hell Titus why is Beeboy town?

[SirCakez]

Yo guys, want to do something nuts and just quicklynch Varsoon? I have no legit reasons for wanting to do that other than that seeming like the most likely of my town reads to be wrong, but idk. If no-one's hammering Dwlee, let's just mix it up. Maybe generate some of that patented #content(tm)(copyright) while we wait for the last slot to chime in in another 3 days or so.

No, bad Rob, we aren't lynching Varsoon.

[SirCakez]

Also, are you scumreading me? You've been kinda calling me out on my reads a lot, which is fine, I don't really read or play conventionally that much and I could see why you'd be like wait what? At some of my stances.

But like it's day 1 of a large theme, think I'm allowed to have a few null reads. lol
Seriously it's really hard to completely tell how you're reading me just going from interactions (something I'm usually pretty decent at gauging) and the longer that goes on the weirder I'm gonna feel about them.

No I'm not scumreading you, I'm just digging into your reads since your null and null town reads were sorted oddly. That's fine since you explained it.

[SirCakez]

Currently catching up. I am completely content with laying a vote down on SirCakez for the time being for pressure purposes, and so we're not zeroing in on just one target to where it clouds our judgment beyond belief. In addition to that, I feel like Titus and Nero Cain are town through the first 15 pages of my reads. Vote is subject to change based on findings from page 16-38.

Vote: SirCakez

Spoiler:

[SirCakez]

Dwlee why aren't you following through on the reads you made earlier?

[SirCakez]

Why do you want to baaaahhhh instead of pushing your own reads?

[SirCakez]

Cause bahhhhing is more likely to catch scum.

You should have confidence in your reads. Bahhhing goes nowhere except making you a vote slave.

[SirCakez]

And tbh I cant even keep the players straight in my head.

pedit I wasnt guiltied though. All I did was forget something .-.

pedit2 Just becauae I shouls have cofidence doesnt mean I do. Read histort mafia 2, read denmark mafia where I tunneled a power rile, read league of mafia where I qas a doublevoter.

But you do have confidence in Titus's reads?

[SirCakez]

Yes, I do cakey

Now if you can be confident in someone else's reads, I don't see why you can't be confident in your own. This is just semantics at this point but you shouldn't be bahhhing basically.

[SirCakez]

Grapes what do you think of YT's huge catchup post?

[SirCakez]

Self voting is very anti town Dwlee.

[SirCakez]

No it's scummy and antitown to self vote, so by self voting, my scumread on you only increases.

[SirCakez]

Rob who else is scum besides Dwlee and Beeboy? You're spinning your tires in the sand on them.

[SirCakez]

Rob who else is scum besides Dwlee and Beeboy? You're spinning your tires in the sand on them.

TSO also asking this to you.

[SirCakez]

Are you shitting me Titus? He was getting wagoned based on now knowing the game size which is terribad so I tried to shut it down. Then his responses actually got scummy and the reaction test happened and now I'm scumreading him. It's a natural reads progression.

[SirCakez]

Are you shitting me Titus? He was getting wagoned based on not knowing the game size which is terribad so I tried to shut it down. Then his responses actually got scummy and the reaction test happened and now I'm scumreading him. It's a natural reads progression.

EBWOP

[SirCakez]

^wants to end the day asap

How does me asking Beeboy for an alternative wagon equate to wanting to end the day early?

[SirCakez]

Rob who else is scum besides Dwlee and Beeboy? You're spinning your tires in the sand on them.

TSO also asking this to you.

[SirCakez]

What questions? I've seen no questions asked to me from you.

[SirCakez]

Why Not_Varsoon specifically of the lurkers?

[SirCakez]

It's pretty goddamn obvious when you look at the implication underwriting that post. You think the only plausible way this day is going to end is with a dwelee lynch. Starting the ball moving on a de-rail will mean your votes are "useless" because they don't achieve that end. Thus, the only good action in your mind is the keep your votes on dwelee. You discount the fact that wagons take time to build and taking a vote off of Dwelee is the start of the formation of alternative wagons. /my 10 cents. Also, I don't like your posts for some reason. Might just be stylistic scum pings, aka, gut.

This is silly, because starting an alternative wagon is exactly what would extend the day. By asking Beeboy to back up his posts with an alternative wagon since he didn't want to lynch Dwlee, that isn't wanting to end the day quickly, it's thinking it through.

[SirCakez]

It's pretty goddamn obvious when you look at the implication underwriting that post. You think the only plausible way this day is going to end is with a dwelee lynch. Starting the ball moving on a de-rail will mean your votes are "useless" because they don't achieve that end. Thus, the only good action in your mind is the keep your votes on dwelee. You discount the fact that wagons take time to build and taking a vote off of Dwelee is the start of the formation of alternative wagons. /my 10 cents. Also, I don't like your posts for some reason. Might just be stylistic scum pings, aka, gut.

This is silly, because starting an alternative wagon is exactly what would extend the day. Asking Beeboy to back up his posts with an alternative wagon since he didn't want to lynch Dwlee isn't wanting to end the day quickly, it's thinking it through.

EBWOP for butchered grammar

[SirCakez]

Titus will this PR ever disappear so I can legitimately interact with you?

[SirCakez]

I was criticizing him for not putting up an alternative to the Dwlee lynch while saying he didn't like that lynch, not for not voting Dwlee.
And yeah I can read her posts fine but she can't post more in depth stuff which is what makes it harder to interact.

[SirCakez]

Dwlee, Beeboy, Pops, Pisskop, Elyse, Almost

[SirCakez]

TSO is strong town, there shouldn't even be a wagon there.

[SirCakez]

*shurg* Getting your vote off of the current dominant wagon is the first step towards starting a counter wagon.

This is true. That's why that post did not have the intention of quickly ending the day.

[SirCakez]

Peregrine - his defense of Dwlee was very awkward, he didn't offer up an alternative wagon then started flailing and dropping random votes on strong town like TSO.

[SirCakez]

good, my boy has finally bought the first premise. Good. Now the deal is though, that by saying that that vote was bad, implicitly you are saying that vote should have been kept on dwelee until an alternative could be found, this would obviously work towards ending the day quicker because it would mean the dwelee wagon is closer to lynch, thus, implicit in your post is a desire to end the day quickly. Stop denying it, you want to hit d2.

OK this I can understand. Yes I want Dwlee lynched and want more votes on him. Today will only end in a Dwlee lynch. But no, I do not want the day ended quickly. That was not the intention of that post at all. I can see how you're thinking it was now, but it wasn't.

[SirCakez]

Peregrine - his defense of Dwlee was very awkward, he didn't offer up an alternative wagon then started flailing and dropping random votes on strong town like TSO.

I'm not willing to say that TSO is strong town. Vocal =/= townie.

He is a strong town read for me at least.

[SirCakez]

Peregrine - his defense of Dwlee was very awkward, he didn't offer up an alternative wagon then started flailing and

dropping random votes on

strong town like

TSO.

Peregrine - his defense of Dwlee was very awkward, he didn't offer up an alternative wagon then started flailing and dropping random votes on strong town like TSO.

I'm not willing to say that TSO is strong town. Vocal =/= townie.

He is a strong town read for me at least.

[SirCakez]

Strong town as in strong town read. I don't see what you're not getting about this.

[SirCakez]

Oh Titus you misread that post. Peregrine asked me earlier why I was scumreading Beeboy and that was my response to that question. Should have made it clearer.

[SirCakez]

Beeboy do you actually have a case for TSO!scum or not?

[SirCakez]

OK I like your analysis of YT there Grapes, thanks.

[SirCakez]

Why do you have Venmar listed at the top and in the low-middle area?

[SirCakez]

OK I just read through Aafter's post that Grapes linked and yeah you can toss Aafter in my scum reads. So much commentary and information, very little actually analysis.
And yeah I'm trying post a little less since a lot of people are having a rough time keeping up, so my post volume will decrease.

[SirCakez]

Is it just me or do those post links go to completely different threads?

[SirCakez]

also, didn't people think yt was bad for some reason a while back? What ever happened with that? I think I missed something there...

Yeah he was spouting a lot of theory and semantics with no scumhunting but now his catchup posts are good so he's nullish town for me now.
Where did Pisskop claim a PR though?

[SirCakez]

also, didn't people think yt was bad for some reason a while back? What ever happened with that? I think I missed something there...

Yeah he was spouting a lot of theory and semantics with no scumhunting but now his catchup posts are good so he's nullish town for me now.
Where did Pisskop claim a PR though?

Well, his posts are so short, and I seen somebody brought up that his posts might have a character limit. What is the most characters he has had in a post? At least up to page 30, all his posts were relatively short.

Just because his posts are short doesn't mean he has a PR. I'm pretty sure that's just his posting style.
Although I do want to see a lot more from that slot as I'm scumreading it right now.

[SirCakez]

769 SirCakez: Come to think of it, the fact that he is trying to veer people elsewhere, but ISN'T offering any alternatives indicates to me that they're more than likely NOT scum buddies. I'm sure if they were he would either be all over him, or trying to persuade everyone to go elsewhere.

Maybe they aren't scum buddies but it's still quite scummy.
What's an indie?
Multiball means there is more then one mafia team in the game.

[SirCakez]

The stuff from YT wasn't SK hunting, Grapes. Almost's posts have been though which is a big reason why I'm scumreading him.
Can you try to dig up who the other person was? I don't remember anyone else doing it.

[SirCakez]

Speculating multiball =/= SK hunting. I don't think there's anything scummy about speculating multiball.

[SirCakez]

Speculating multiball =/= SK hunting. I don't think there's anything scummy about speculating multiball.

I agree but that's not what I'm getting on YT about.

I was commenting on this

The stuff from YT wasn't SK hunting, Grapes. Almost's posts have been though which is a big reason why I'm scumreading him.
Can you try to dig up who the other person was? I don't remember anyone else doing it.

Neither do I, that's why I said it was a person that I can't remember.

But there's been a button of people throwing around the idea of multiball out of the blue and it's weird.

Not anything specifically about YT.

[SirCakez]

996 SirCakez: I beg to differ. Yes it's anti-town thing to do, but at the same time I've seen many players do it when they're simply over it, so while it's not good for town, it doesn't necessarily implicate somebody as scum if that's the point you're trying to make there.

That's could be the reason but Dwlee could have used his vote much better there.

[SirCakez]

I'd look at Beeboy first if Dwlee flipped town. Whiteknighting + awkward defense of wagon + awkward hop back on.
Almost why aren't you voting anyone though?

[SirCakez]

No because you should be using your vote. Sitting around on it does absolutely nothing.
YT why are ordering around PRs?

[SirCakez]

How are those scummy?

[SirCakez]

Elyse is a slight scumread for me but not for the reasons Dwlee is pushing. Other people I want to pressure more tomorrow.

[SirCakez]

Mainly just doing very little scumhunting in the thread earlier on. You said earlier you had real life stuff going on so that might just be the cause.

[SirCakez]

Not especially much except for Dwlee. You made a small push on Rob that you never followed up on. Also never followed through on the very early Suzune push.

[SirCakez]

Everything in your catchup posts related to Rob is agreeing with him though. Did the scumread dissipate?

[SirCakez]

Everything in your catchup posts related to Rob is agreeing with him though. Did the scumread dissipate?

No.

I could see that though since I agreed with a lot of his thoughts re Dwlee. Maybe it just doesn't show in my catchup. I thought he said a couple wonky things, I think one was about multiball and saying that Dwlee might be town because it could be multiball and beeboy could be scum.

Yeah it wasn't very clear in the catchup since the majority was focused on Dwlee. He was a scumread in your drunk reads which I missed so it was followed there at least.

[SirCakez]

Why the fuck are you reaching out to me if you think I'm scum?

Granted, this is a damn good point...

That's all I have to say re: this battle between the two of you. I will look into Elise heavily next day phase, but I am not zeroing in on her solely. There are multiple other people who need attention, like pisskop, starbucks, and tso.

Should we shorten this day phase in that it's practically getting us nowhere except for a DWLee lynch? Or prolong until after starbucks posts or a replacement for them does? We'd have to wait two more days, I believe. Discuss. I'm for the latter, but if there is a consensus, I'll reconsider.

Whats the point of putting attention on Starbuck who's not even here?

[SirCakez]

VOTE: Pops

This can die tomorrow don't worry.

These are not going to die tomorrow though.

[SirCakez]

All right that's fine.

[SirCakez]

Oops, my bad. It looked like a response to me since I was the post before.

[SirCakez]

Titus why do you keep making votes, then go back to Dwlee later?

[SirCakez]

town sheep all the town bro. I don't really like how you are pushing DW to not sheep.

Not sheeping > sheeping. Especially when the sheeping in question is of bad reads.

[SirCakez]

^ vig that please

Like are you fucking serious Varsoon what the hell?

Sorry that was a bit harsh but like seriously?

What exactly is wrong here?

I was pissed off by Varsoon "hammering" less then a day into the game. Not much else to say.

[SirCakez]

Why the fuck are you reaching out to me if you think I'm scum?

Granted, this is a damn good point...

That's all I have to say re: this battle between the two of you. I will look into Elise heavily next day phase, but I am not zeroing in on her solely. There are multiple other people who need attention, like pisskop, starbucks, and tso.

Should we shorten this day phase in that it's practically getting us nowhere except for a DWLee lynch? Or prolong until after starbucks posts or a replacement for them does? We'd have to wait two more days, I believe. Discuss. I'm for the latter, but if there is a consensus, I'll reconsider.

Whats the point of putting attention on Starbuck who's not even here?

I don't mean necessarily voting them, but rather not letting them slip by town because for all we know that slot could be scum of some sort.

It's not like we can do anything to pull them into the game right now given they aren't even here. Once the slot gets replaced then yeah we can pressure it. Right now there's no point.

[SirCakez]

Titus what's wrong with those readslists from Grapes? I don't see anything.

[SirCakez]

If Dwlee flips scum I specifically want Doctor protection.

Another one of your posts that make me question your alignment!!!!!

On one hand; this is a totally unnecessary PR claim. It was not called for.

On the other hand. it could be a scum gambit to get the doctor occupied while you get to kill someone else. If there's a mafia watcher they would out the doctor; regardless of your alignment. Hell, we just finished a game where we had scum with PGO abilities.

TWO points on the red side for this post alone.

This is heavily over analyzed. That's not a PR claim either..

[SirCakez]

What exactly did that reaction test tell you?

[SirCakez]

How does just that reaction test tell you they can't be buddies and not Rob's overall behavior in thread?

[SirCakez]

I'll assess/reassess what I said later. Typing and figuring things out on my mobile device is not my forte.

Feel free to vote me if you want.

Really don't like this post. The last sentence mainly.

[SirCakez]

I do see how that could be construed as a slip. I don't think it was one though.
And the game is slowing down now so catchup should get easier.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: beeboy

[SirCakez]

I can go to Pops also but Beeboy's whiteknighting then sudden vote for Dwlee was terribad.