Blitz 26: Maintaining Law, Order... (Game Over)

[Persivul]

VOTE: pignash

If we're going to use the setup to try to indicate scum, the way to do it is to target randomly. Since roles were assigned randomly, the player list is in effect random. We target the player below N1, then the player above N2. That way if there are two or more kills in a night, scum are narrowed down. There are also some downsides to this but I have to leave for work, will discuss them later.

[Persivul]

Alternatively, pair people up to visit - the towniest visit each other, and the scummiest visit each other. That way, if our collective reads are correct, anyone getting PGO'd was a possible mislynch anyway.

But there are two big downsides to either approach:
- it takes away autonomy from the PRs
- scum are probably not going to arm anyway, and if we don't lynch them fast, they have the advantage in the end

FWIW my first scum game was in this setup. IIRC they settled on the second approach, but it didn't really matter, because me and my partner both sucked and were lynched D2 and D3.

[Persivul]

In my mind; the best play scheme I could come up with is to pick 5 players to target, and each to be targeted by 2 of us. This way we know if only one died that it was not the PGO thing. If both die then the target is confirmed scum.

In other words, I think this will force scum not to load their guns on N1, so we will only lose one town player for the NK, but it gives us 2 confirmed townies through both of our PRs.

Any remarks are welcome (and strongly recommended)

This is too dangerous. We start at 8:2. If we mislynch today, then if both scum are in the 5 and know that two players are coming to each of them, they arm, and:

1 mislynch
4 dead by pgo
1 scum NK

2:2, scum win.

[Persivul]

I thought about it when I got my role PM, but it didn't work out too well in my mind.

HOWEVER, I may just sheep you on this if I lean town on you.

Why? That you town read her doesn't necessarily mean the plan is good for town.

[Persivul]

@mod can you fix my vote tags up there?

I don't like trying to outsmart the setup and starting these conversations only serves to stop us from getting started scum hunting I think.

Liking pig for this.

Setups that are breakable don't get played anymore, and this isn't the first time for this setup.

[Persivul]

I dont think we should sit here trying to break the setup. I need people to talk to so I can read them.

What are your thoughts on Almost's 28?

[Persivul]

It had nothing to do with setup. He was questioning why you were questioning ranger about not voting Titus, when the answer seemed pretty obvious.

[Persivul]

No, the obvious reason, as Almost explained, is that it's reckless to put someone at L-1 in RVS. You could get a derphammer, or a scum hammer disguised as such.

VOTE: Dwlee

[Persivul]

Have you ever seen that happen before?

No...and? I don't need to see something happen to recognize the potential danger. Further, I said that doing so is reckless. Both town and scum can be reckless. The reason for my vote is Dwlee's response. If he had said

I wanted to see if Ranger would really put someone at L-1 so early

, or

I wanted to see Titus's reaction to an early L-1

, that would have indicated a town mindset. But, he said he did it just "for lolz," and that's not a town reason.

p-edit @ pisskop: see above.

[Persivul]

@Persy: My plan included a NO LYNCH on the first day. We enter N1 as 8 vs 2, and the scum cannot both arm bc it would mean 3 vs 2 entering D2 with BOTH SCUM confirmed. Automatic town win in other words. Now, even if only one arms we lose 3 town players at night, but automatically lynch one scum on D2, so entering N2 with 5 vs 1.

In that case - neither scum arms, they get a kill, but we don't get a lynch - doesn't work.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Almost50

No lynch D1? You can fry.

Setup spec is common for Almost, and he's not pushing it, just talking out loud at this point.

[Persivul]

Are your real rn, persivul? Did you ever think lulz is for a fun RVS wagon to get the game started?

Do you think getting the game started somehow exempts you from votes, questions, and reaction tests?

[Persivul]

so are you saying he does this often as town or as scum or as both? I don't have much experience with him.

I haven't seen his scum game, but his posting so far is very consistent with a previous town game. In a game with multiple bus driving and various claims he was into sorting past actions and planning next actions.

[Persivul]

UNVOTE:

I like that Dwlee is questioning others rather than trying to draw me into a 1v1.

Dwlee, Almost, lane are various degrees of townish. Need more activity from everyone else.

[Persivul]

Would you have kept your vote there if he wanted to argue with you? Why? I don't think that would have been scummy imo

He seemed overly concerned with a single vote, and in my experience, it's scum who obsess over a vote on them. Most town aren't concerned about a vote or two early on D1. Letting the issue go and moving on to question Titus was a town thing to do.

And regarding 1v1s, we played scum together once and you said you wanted to draw someone into a 1v1 because you thought you'd come out looking good from it. I've watched for that in you and other people since then. (RC's scum game seems to consist two 1v1s: a friendly one with an emotional sort to get a steady ally, and a deathtunnel on a mislynch target). It's not a solid scum tell for everyone, but it's something I keep an eye on.

[Persivul]

Or choose who you want to target. Up 1 or down 1. For the people that don't like to be told what to do.

If people don't announce, we don't get info from the kills. If they do announce, and by some going up and others going down on the same target (that didn't come out right ), we risk excessive kills. It should be everyone goes the same direction N1, then everyone goes the other direction N2 so PRs get fresh targets.

[Persivul]

True. But for me, how did that turn out?

You didn't do it - you replaced out.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Almost
That's L-2

That's really bad. You lose a lot of credibility with a self vote. Save the drama for your mama.

Oh, btw.. I found a flaw in the each one visits the one below/above scheme.[/quote]
There are flaws in every game breaking strategy. If there weren't, this wouldn't have survived as a valid open setup.

[Persivul]

But how about this: Lynch Titus today, if she flips scum we lynch pignash tomorrow. If she flips town lynch me tomorrow. How's that?

If there's scum in {titus, pignash}, it's only one. 108 - 111 seems way too obvious for scum buddies. But what's your case? Just that Titus opposes a NL, and pignash voted you?

[Persivul]

Lucky's ISO is basically:

We should scum hunt instead of trying to break the setup

, followed by little or no actual scum hunting.

VOTE: Lucky

[Persivul]

pignash has been prodded.

I was scum with pignash in a newbie game and he was mostly inactive. I was waiting to give him time to post and for a while it looked like he would be active, but now he's back to lurking. Not a good sign.

[Persivul]

Not town reading anyone on that wagon. lmao

Weren't you on that wagon yourself until your last vote.

[Persivul]

I am town and ranger is obvtown so yea.. no titus.

How is Ranger obvtown? She gives little in the way of reasoning or pushes. There were already two votes on Titus when she hopped on that wagon. Ranger is a good player and I get that she can't obvtown it or she gets NK'd, but that comes at a price. The new Ranger is IMO difficult to read.

[Persivul]

Ranger hasn't done anything other than be a random name generator like ika tried to do in Inorganic. Maybe it's the cold but your read that Ranger = obvtown is just no.

Agreed.

Persivul, why no Almost vote. His progression is terrible?

I've played with him as town before and setup breaking is exactly what I would expect. I didn't like the self-vote, but his response felt genuine. I've made bad posts in the middle of the night too.

What's your read on Lucky?

[Persivul]

against the almost lynch. Its lazy.

Titus is a better lynch than lucky

vote: Titus

You don't think a Titus lynch is lazy? In my experience she's a pretty common mislynch target. Last time I played with her, I was scum and lynched her D1 even though she claimed (and was) a town vig.

[Persivul]

vote: PFalcon

You're mixing up your players there sport!

[Persivul]

So modkill him, I captured it.

[Persivul]

NM, page top got me.

[Persivul]

Scum Scumflailing

Don't be an ass...

[Persivul]

so the JKer jailed pignash, since I got no result

I say since there was no NK he's worth killing today. I can't think of any other plausible reason why I'm still alive

VOTE: pignash

Works for me.
VOTE: pignash

[Persivul]

wait I'm dumb, I might have been jailed

Yeah I was just thinking that too. Maybe the JK doesn't understand that jailing a cop is counter-productive.

[Persivul]

I don't think scum would be that obvious actually.

[Persivul]

Basically going forward we have guilty as a safe target the rest of the game

Good point.

[Persivul]

I targeted Lucky, although I'm not sure what the targets matter. Seems to me they only mean something if there's 2 or more night kills.

[Persivul]

You were just below me (so to speak) in the list.

[Persivul]

Are we helping scum to narrow down the possible JKs by claiming targets?

[Persivul]

Omg that was the funniest day I have ever had. xD

You're laughing now but Ranger's gonna be pissed.

[Persivul]

Ranger reads me correctly about 23% of the time - i.e., she scum reads me every game. As she said in 101: "And Persivul...well, he's just always scum." Meanwhile, she's made all of 12 posts and does nothing that gives us reads on her. She needs to be watched herself, but for today the best vote is still:

VOTE: Lucky

[Persivul]

Like: Persivul's interactions with Titus are textbook Persivul scum play.
This is

exactly

how he treated MaxwellPuckett, and OceanWind before that. He's the final scum, and if you had let me speak yesterday I could have told you this then.

Interestingly, a game just ended in which I was one of two scum and I pushed my partner hard and he was lynched D1 (I lost in LYLO). Check those interactions and tell me about your meta read.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65087

[Persivul]

Why do you want lucky dead?

He's not looking for scum.

20, 30 - complains about game breaking, doesn't scum hunt
63 - asks a pretty benign questions about almost and doesn't follow up on it
69 - votes you because "You're usually scum," same explanation I got from Ranger. That wasn't his RVS vote - that was on Titus, which was possible distancing.
81 - long argument against setup breaking, calls for scum hunting - doesn't scum hunt
95 - says let's scum hunt instead of setup breaking, but doesn't scum hunt
144 - L-1 vote on almost with no explanation
154 - more on setup breaking v. scum hunting
161 - it's not that he has

no

reads - he has exactly one
177 - against the Titus wagon. Not a smoking gun, as I thought it was a weak wagon too, but in overall context not a good sign.
239 - self conscious: "Whelp I was wrong and look scum now."
241 - Admits he's "Just voting the majority."
243 - self conscious again: "If you didn't think I was scum before, get ready for this: I also forgot to submit a target." Also, didn't submit a target.
247 - still won't submit a target.
309 - says we can "lynch people at random and probably still win."

[Persivul]

Yes, seems like scum grasping at a reason to lynch someone. In my experience you're pretty lurky as scum. This doesn't seem like your scum game at all. I've seen you angry in one game regarding RC and that's it - it's not a town tell for you.

[Persivul]

Particularly the "me first you second" of he's first and scum its over. I understand he can say that as scum, but the way he put it seems matter of fact, and not flailing like "hey everyone! After you lunch me lynch lane!" as in not pleading with town to find him to be town.

I see what you mean, but it could be interpreted as townie or scummy. It could easily be scum trying to appear so casual about calling himself scummy that he couldn't possibly be scum - particularly considering that this comes after the self-scum references in 239 and 243. Do townies really call themselves scummy all the time like that?

[Persivul]

- Already covered above.

- Yep.

[Persivul]

Last was @ Lane's 348-349, misssed the new page.

[Persivul]

UNVOTE:

Actually I have a new theory...

[Persivul]

And that is?

That Lucky is town. Still working on the next vote. There's too many town and null reads in this game. And little participation. Not sure why people sign up for a blitz game to lurk.

[Persivul]

Lane am I reading your ISO right? Looks like you put an RVS post on Titus and just left it there all phase.

[Persivul]

Don't you usually move your vote around on D1?

[Persivul]

Prodge

[Persivul]

I buy this

intent to hammer Persivul, claim if you're JK

also Persivul townreading Lucky reeks of scum trying to make a buddy

my lone worry here is that scum could have bussed for a lot of towncred but I really don't think it's good play in this setup

Actually I think Lucky's the JK. It would explain his nonchalant attitude to pressure if he knows he has a claim in his back pocket.