Mini 1771 - Legend of Zelda Mafia: Storm the Castle Endgame

[Cookie Bakers]

VOTE: cookie bakers That name is highly suspicious.

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=8175333

[Cookie Bakers]

Feeling a little green at the moment. Shiro will be taking point for awhile. Hopefully just the day.

Being sick is an xpost on all games when I finish.

For now, let's see where this phoenix thing goes.

VOTE: Phoenix

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UNVOTE: PW

We're both not sure if PW is scum and Dwlee is probably town here.

~Titus

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@Cleavage

Shiro made the first post ;p

Sorry for the inactivity tho, I was making a presentation plus writting a text game in c++ plus writing a word file about the hows plus pretending to study for the exams I have lined up plus work soooo been preeeetty busy.

Just finished catching up though so feel free to ask anything.

@beeboy

Give us tgat case because honestly? Pw seems pretty town to me. And what exactly do you mean by saying, people are strawmaning what is happening?

[Cookie Bakers]

The above was Shiro If it wasn't clear

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VOTE: Toog

Dwlee, let's do this. Dave still registers as null. Shiro and I both have gut feels here.

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@Dwee as well

do you have anything more solid on Toog?

Nope this is pure something is off. It started with his post about scumminess on people that fluffed and then his big post I dunno just rubbed me wrong. Then that statistics thing came for PW which was odd as hell.

@Everyone We can share cookies if you help us ;3

~Shiro

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I am going to agree with you that his post directed to PW was quite off the rest of his arguments aren't really bad either like saying we should not write off deathtuneeling as town. I really do not see the scum read on PW though. I mean he himself said that after a point PW seemed town but then turned around again.

But why did you initially say they were being so weird? That's the question I initially asked.

I already answered that. They were voting seriously against me without having a reason to. That's weird

This is just going in circles now ugh. Your responses feel town enough for now.

What the hell why is Davsto the leading wagon?
VOTE: Phoenix Wright
He hasn't improved at all and the backtracking from earlier is still scummy.

Like this was a weird shift. I know it was a 100 posts apart but he says still scummy when before he said that he seems town enough. And the vote was in response to Dav being the leading wagon which makes me go eh,
See I have this inner contradiction I feel like he could be scum with Dav that voted PW to shift the leading wwagon but that would make his post you mentioned really unlikly to come from scum who push a mislynch. If we assume cakes with PW and it being a coachign post. The above with him suddenly changin his mind and voting him again makes no sense.

So I am not sure where to lean

~Shiro

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I do not see why scum would coach town on being more town like though. and I am guilty of doing preflip associations from town to time hehe ^_^;

~Shiro

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What reason would have scum to crump vig in a very bleh way? Why assume illogical scum over dumb town?

still going with my "he just read homestuck" theory.

If that is the case. Let's do this. I call di8s on Vriska style :::: )

~Shiro

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And if beeboy is trying to soft claim Vigilante, then all the more reason to lynch him.

Ok uhm wtf? Did you just say all the more ro lynch someone who you think might be sifting pro town role?

Picking up alt slip for you Shiro.


Hey, beeboy, you claiming vig like for real or is this just a trumped up charge against you?

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@MOD This head will be V/LA because my dad is going to the hospital and I will be there. Don't know how long it will be.

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I got you Shiro.

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Get better sir cakez

*Hands cookie*


Btw Shiro head is back since all was well ^_^

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That was Shiro If it wasn't obv

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Big rule, Titus gets copped n1. Kinda surprised it didn't happen in pyp.

PW or whoever the counter is is almost certainly town. We haven't been pressured at all, despite our only contribution being our collective gut saying Toog is scum. If both were scum, I would see a scramble for a counter. Pw by play is town as well.

~Titus

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Lol. As Firebringer says, I am the fairy godmother. But nope. You'll likely see what we are tomorrow. :-p

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Help us on Toog dwlee? We can't articulate beyond gut but your Dave wagon stalled out. I don't like the major wagons and neither do you.

Join us? Let's see if we shake things up.

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*shrug*Cakey looks town to me.

Dwlee, where is your vote then? Come on, just join me on Toog. It'll be fun.

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But that's the thing it wasn't an attempt to try and make him "more town-like" it was cakes telling PW (pretty blatantly) that he shouldn't be townreading us.
I struggle to see the town motive in trying to influence

a scumreads

reads like that.
Like call him out sure and maybe supplement that to his scumread but not act as though Phoenix Wright was

genuinely

thinking those things and try and talk him out of his flawed reasoning.

Bottom line it's just a weird interaction.

People do this all the time. Seeing what scumreads do allows for reevaluation of your scumread or getting information about their buddies. Scum get caught in the choices they make and the inconsistencies in their narratives.

I don't see this as necessarily scummy.

What are your thoughts on Toog?

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Titus head has intermittent power outages and storm that ripped out a tree. Vla till further notice. Hopefully resolved shortly.

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PW Sensei SirCakez can the three of you knock it off. You're all town and all bitching at each other.

While y'all are bitching. Toog and Ari are lurking.

~Titus

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Probably town but I lost this time I was going to speak with Shiro about it.

~Titus

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Toog ... lurking.

Just because I have a low post count, doesn't mean I'm lurking. I've covered most issues whenever I make a new post. Not all of us sit at our computer and wait to have active conversations.

Really, you've covered the issues? You're not getting upset when town get wagoned.

You've said Clevage was "trying too hard" when pushing a Phoenix wagon. You know where I usually see this, scum trying to silence town leaders.

You spent a lot of energy attacking Phoenix's wagon, but you never outright state Phoenix is town.

You're just attacking leadership and lurking your way through this.

Even your last vote on Cakey doesn't explain what you dislike about him.

You jumped on beeboy. Uber sheepage.

So I ask you, where's your spine on your reads? The town toog I know has one. Scum toog just makes sure to "comment" on what he feels is important.

~Titus

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If Toog was #rekt, where is your vote?

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This is partially true, but scum will put themselves in the spotlight to get mislynches on occasion. A game I just finished, Open 623, had a prime example of this. We all just wrote off a deathtunneler as town and they ended being scum. So just because he's hard pushing doesn't clear them 100% of being scum.

Would you be happier if we gave percentages on our reads? Like, I don't know how anyone else can't see it, but Phoenix is like 97.452% town. That gives me 2.548% of being wrong I guess.

I also don't have a town read on Phoenix, hence the reason I've never called him town.

I dunno calling him 97.452% town seemed like a townread to me, you just never stated so. Now you are saying that you didn't townread him? Then what did those numbers meant.

~Shiro

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You're trying too hard. He's an early train in RVS, and since it's still page 3 at this point, it's not as if any one could possibly not have a puzzled look on their face, especially since your reasoning is total shit for not following the appropriate flow of RVS. There's nothing to debunk considering the case is shit in the first place and just as random as the RVS stage in general is. I feel like his reaction is definitely appropriate considering that he's the first wagon of the game.

Trying too hard is your exact words verbatim Toog.

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Toog, I am a sadistic little woman. I like seeing the blood of my scumreads spill all over the floor.

The next time I or Shiro types Dayvig: Toog, it will be serious.

Can you give your reads Darling?

~Titus

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If Toog was #rekt, where is your vote?

On cakey cause they ask me weird questions obviously.

You're voting Cakey because he's wierd? Really, you of all people? You're the quintessential definition of weird. That's how you wagon lynchbait.

Join me on Toog.

~Titus

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Yes SirCakez. I am not in a charitable mood.

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Toog, Was I not clear? We threatened to dayvig you. We want your reads, and claim,not for you to act like a jelly fish and say it's ok if you're lynched.

~Titus

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What are you trying to say there, cakes?
Toog as scum with a gun in his face decided to fakeclaim VT in an advertised role madness game?

Again, sorry you rolled scum.

Yea, I can see that being the case. It gives people a huge pause.

The very fact of how unopposed Cakez wagon was is really suspicious. If he was scum it looks as if he is solo.

~Shiro

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Hey, Clevage and Dave, stuff the effort thing where the sun don't shine. Scum are white knighting the fuck out of SirCakez. It's not just "effort" that indicates whether a player has no partners.

If it was, all of you would be scumreading Toog.

Even when I am telling you that I will murder Toog unless people object, you can't even muster a comment beyond Toog isn't the lynch for today.

Why should I engage your shitty wagon when you are flat out ignoring us?

~Titus

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@Clevage, I have responded to your shitty case. I apologize for not replying to every comment where you whine about the wrong lynch being so hard.

You meanwhile aren't even taking a stance on Toog Mirhawk or Nahdia or Dwlee or anyone who actually reacted to my push on Toog.

I also think you don't understand how a white knight works. Scum set people up to take falls. They aren't blantant and direct. It's more...gee the wagon looks nice but I cannot.

~Titus

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Sensei, you oughta know by now that I don't bluff.

~Titus

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@Clevage, Your thoughts on them didn't change based on their posts in thread. Some you didn't comment on. Nahdia's post for instance is terrible. It's like you want to ignore what happened.

Oh and yes your push on Cakes is bad. There's a difference between white knighting and scum just not wanting to be part of a mislynch. A white knight is more about posturing and making themselves look good. That's why I am annoyed with you for not seeing that.

Then again, you just unvoted Cakey. So yippie.

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@Dave, you're British though. :/

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Jesus Toog time to backtrack yo.

This one. It reeks of scum meaning to post in a PT or scum coaching but when would nahdia ever coach Toog? Noobs generally don't coach seasoned vets.

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This one. It reeks of scum meaning to post in a PT or scum coaching but when would nahdia ever coach Toog? Noobs generally don't coach seasoned vets.

Mmmkay.
Trust, it's not a great post.
But that seems like a pretty large reach.

Then you realise that Toog didn't address the post at all, which is weird since he posted a lot and addressed all other posts about him.

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As if he didn't want, the post to strike out a tall.

~Shiro

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*stick out.

~Titus

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This one. It reeks of scum meaning to post in a PT or scum coaching but when would nahdia ever coach Toog? Noobs generally don't coach seasoned vets.

Mmmkay.
Trust, it's not a great post.
But that seems like a pretty large reach.

Then what do you think of 598 and Nadhia then?

I am trying to work with you and you seem content to just keep pushing town. It's making me doubt my read on you.

~Titus

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Why should I?

The time to trigger a day shot if town is to use it as a dual lynch?

So you want me to shoot Toog, vote him.

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Nope. I am not shooting or voting town Dwlee.

~Titus

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No. SirCakez is town. I won't vote or shoot him.

~Titus

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No, you're the one shitting on my theories without providing alternative theories of your own.

The nadhia post doesn't mean what I think it does. Well great..why was it not good to you?

I am trying to find some place where we have common ground but the current major wagons suck and you're trying to pidgeon hole them.

You're confident Toog is town. Why are you? You aren't saying why?

You claim I disappear into the cosmos is pretty fucking rich.

[Cookie Bakers]

Really? Not preconceived? He asked the mod to confirm rolemadness before his claim. The wiki has claiming VT in a role madness game will look town. Toog confirms role madness and then claims VT. Pretty planned to me.

What parts of your Cakes case do you feel I ignored?

Also, nadhia agreeing with you isn't a reason to defend them. If they're scummy, why can't they be scum agreeing with your push on town.

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Really? Not preconceived? He asked the mod to confirm rolemadness before his claim.

Sure, but he suuuper strongly hinted that he was VT before then. Like, incredibly strongly.

Ok, where?

[Cookie Bakers]

Really? Not preconceived? He asked the mod to confirm rolemadness before his claim.

Sure, but he suuuper strongly hinted that he was VT before then. Like, incredibly strongly.

Ok, where?

If this game is a role madness game, I will be a bit upset with my role.

In 589 is where Toog tries to confirm role madness. Him being annoyed at being a VT after 589 doesn't work.

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VOTE: Cookie Bakers

Moving the goalposts

The goal posts were always where they were. I said Toog tried to confirm role madness and then claimed vt.

You said he did so before then. I asked for where. You gave me a post that's inapplicable and whined about goalposts.

At least you're engaging but try following the thread.

~Titus

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Toog, Was I not clear? We threatened to dayvig you. We want your reads, and claim,not for you to act like a jelly fish and say it's ok if you're lynched.

~Titus

Reads is one thing, but would you explain to me why you would threaten to vig him if he didn't claim?

In post 598, Nahdia wrote:
Jesus Toog time to backtrack yo.


This one. It reeks of scum meaning to post in a PT or scum coaching but when would nahdia ever coach Toog? Noobs generally don't coach seasoned vets.

Actually, it just reeks of flippancy. You yourself answered why the second possibility is a reach, and, unless nahdia can't tell the difference between purple and black, the first possibility is even more of a reach.

Claiming is a precursor to dayvigging. I don't want to Derp vig a mason or cop or something.

~Titus

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Titus I quoted a post where he hinted at it before hand that you're conveniently ignoring.

Where?

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Hey, Clevage, are you going to reply or not?

My whole complaint was that Toog is narrative selling in his claim. You're promising me a post where he hinted at VT before confirming massclaim. Where is it?

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It's pretty funny that as soon as we're really close to lynching sir cakez everyone suddenly tries to put the pressure on cleavage lol

Who's pressuring him? He's not even being voted.

{Dwlee99, Cookie Bakers,}

Explain these please.

The last few pages were just everyone arguing with cleavage and trying to make it seem like their posts suck. Is that not pressure?

That's not pressure, that's just arguing.

CB's claim is way too pro\/able to come from scum and if I am wrong on this they made a pro\/able claim so who really cares?

CB didn't claim....

We'll be on the record then.

One shot anytime vig.

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Toog, Was I not clear? We threatened to dayvig you. We want your reads, and claim,not for you to act like a jelly fish and say it's ok if you're lynched.

~Titus

Reads is one thing, but would you explain to me why you would threaten to vig him if he didn't claim?

In post 598, Nahdia wrote:
Jesus Toog time to backtrack yo.


This one. It reeks of scum meaning to post in a PT or scum coaching but when would nahdia ever coach Toog? Noobs generally don't coach seasoned vets.

Actually, it just reeks of flippancy. You yourself answered why the second possibility is a reach, and, unless nahdia can't tell the difference between purple and black, the first possibility is even more of a reach.

Claiming is a precursor to dayvigging. I don't want to Derp vig a mason or cop or something.

~Titus

But...you weren't going to dayvig him.

What part of Titus doesn't bluff do you not understand?

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Him asking me where I got the idea that this was role madness

is

hinting at VT.
Are you arguing that's not true?
Are you now arguing that he was "narrative selling" or slipped in narrative?

No it frankly isn't. It's asking you to out information regarding PRs and if he is a VT, it's terrible posting.

Who do you scumread besides Cakez/Toog? Can you meet me anywhere plausible?

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Not bluffing.

Shiro and I have a joint anytime vig. One of our scumreads will not live to see tomorrow. We are just going to be as pro town as possible about it.

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Our target is guaranteed to die if we shoot at night and I am presuming no day bulletproof.

So yup. That's it.

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Still wasn't buddying. I just think it's weird that there's so much resistance to sir cakez' lynch. People are doing everything they can to pull us in different directions and stop it from going through.

Maybe because he's just as town as you are. Ever think of that?

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No it frankly isn't. It's asking you to out information regarding PRs and if he is a VT, it's terrible posting.

Who do you scumread besides Cakez/Toog? Can you meet me anywhere plausible?

Eh. It's not.
The bigger question is did he not know the game really was advertised as role madness. If he didn't then it's an innocent enough question because it looks like I've got info that I shouldn't and if he's a VT he's a bit more apt to go "wait what where's my PR?"

Certainly fakable. And not as good a post as it would be if he had claimed something else because as you said that's a bad post to make as a VT. But it isn't damning.

Not sure why we're having this conversation when we both know you're just gonna shoot him anyway, though.

He knew. He read the signup thread.

Can you quit acting like a spoiled brat and realize that I might not shoot Toog if we can agree on a scumread here? I would have shot Toog pages ago if I didn't want input.

The most protown way to use my role is to dual lynch. I just am not shooting Cakes though.

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Bakers who else is scum besides Toog? You're spinning your wheels.

I could settle for Nadhia or Mirhawk.

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If not cakes. I'd shoot aristo. Maybe beeboy.

Aristo tells us nothing. Beeboy is town.

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You're just dead set on shooting town aren't you.

I'd shoot you if that was the case, so I wouldn't have to hear you push through shitty crap because it's popular.

You have said Nadhia's posting is sketchy, but yet you don't want me to shoot her. Why?

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But you just said I was deadset on shooting town a few moments ago...which makes me think you had Nahdia as town... :/

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VOTE: Aristo

Fine. Let's wagon him then.

I love you too.

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Yes, it will get him to show up and give reads, replace out, or die.

~Titus

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I'd like a PW \/ig to be honest.

Why not Ari? Why PW?

~Titus

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Precisely because it would replace a lynch. That's why we'd wagon him.

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So it ends the day?

I don't believe so, but treating today like a dual lynch day sets town up really well for the future. The first lynch will just be one Shiro and I approve of.

~Titus

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Oh, that's really cool then.

I do apologize for not being clear in that regard. I'll have to make 100% sure that Shiro is onboard with this as he's asleep. We are largely in sync about how we are reading things but it's best to check.

Dual day 1 is OP.

~Titus

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You're trying pretty hard to save your buddy

This is literally a policy lynch.

Then case someone I will possibly shoot.

~Titus

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Yup. We could shoot now. We could shoot tonight.

Using this as a lynch that I approve of essentially gives us two lynches.

Dual Day 1 OP.

[Cookie Bakers]

do i not understand the roles or something. cookies said they can vig any time. why would u wait until the lynch is set up to vig.

He's essentially trying to strongarm the town into lynching one prospect so he can shoot another. They want a lynch on someone they want and then shoot someone else they want. They're holding out til that happens.

In all honesty, shooting someone at the same time as a lynch is pretty stupid because you aren't reacting to the lynch, and you should shoot first and then lynch around the info from the flip. This is moot though because they aren't gonna vig today anyways.

Only you scumfuck could paint waiting to shoot your ass and instead having the town pick from acceptable candidates the first lynch as anti-town.

Once we shoot, we got next to no power here.

You got a problem with Ari dying or just that I don't lynch lynchbait?

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TITUS WHEN DOES IT RESOLVE

When we want.

Which means intent to hammer on an acceptable person.

[Cookie Bakers]

People like to claim they have the power to day vig just so they can have a certain degree of power over other players and lynch development. It's somewhat empowering. It's typically a lie 99% of the time.

And you still haven't answered whether or not you object to Ari dying.

I think you know me better than to suppose I am bluffing here.

Yet still you doubtcast. Running out of mislynches?

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We are getting two lynches today. Deal with it scum. When there's intent to hammer on an acceptable person, we shoot. Then, town lynches again.

2 lynches Day 1. Co op play. Deal with it.

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We are getting two lynches today. Deal with it scum. When there's intent to hammer on an acceptable person, we shoot. Then, town lynches again.

2 lynches Day 1. Co op play. Deal with it.

why? what makes you think this is optimal? it's inherently anti-town to deny us the chance to discuss the first flip. justify this dammit.

We aren't.

Wagon to hammer.
We shoot.
Discussion.
Second lynch.

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Yesss Dwlee.

We won't hammer anyone we think is town though.

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We are getting two lynches today. Deal with it scum. When there's intent to hammer on an acceptable person, we shoot. Then, town lynches again.

2 lynches Day 1. Co op play. Deal with it.

Problem with this is scum can self hammer :/

Then we lynched scum and we can shoot at night.

Lynching scum is not a problem.

[Cookie Bakers]

Can you help me force Toog to take a stance on Ari?

~Titus

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We aren't.

Wagon to hammer.
We shoot.
Discussion.
Second lynch.

Except you've already explicitly stated that you won't shoot certain players. Cakez and Aristo are both at L-3 right now. If Cakez got to L-1, you gonna come through or no?

Of course I am not shooting Cakey. Hence why I have said the first lynch is someone Shiro and I agree on as possible scum.

You're avoiding taking a stance on Ari.

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Can you help me force Toog to take a stance on Ari?

~Titus

I told you to shoot them, didn't I?

You've also said for me to shoot you.

Stop whining that I won't dayvig town and push your reads rather than insinuate I am bluffing.

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Stop whining that I won't dayvig town and push your reads rather than insinuate I am bluffing.

Stop telling me to push my reads while I wait for a Vig to resolve itself. I will not be held hostage by your lies. Since you won't Dayvig me or Ari, I'm guessing you feel both of us are town since I've been whining about you trying to shoot one of us and you won't.

Tell me how this is town Sensei. Just tell me.

Toog, you aren't the boss of me. I will shoot when the town has an acceptable lynch target or tonight.

~Titus

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Can you help me force Toog to take a stance on Ari?

~Titus

o.o I don't ha\/e a stance on Ari.

So do I. Cooperative play is best here. It leaves the most info for the future. Given the major reluctance to unwind SirCakez despite the group being able to lynch him with the second lynch is very very telling. Doubly so given they're all policy policy let Ari lurk. He promised he'd be back, well where is he?

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Ughh wrong post quoted.

I meant to say I want blood too.

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CB it is highly likely scum ha\/e a role blocker so self hammering is really optimal play and it would mess you up.

I am not saying to shoot now but I don't like the shoot when someone has intent to hammer strat.

That means scum wasted a block on a vig leaving cops open AND we got a scum.

I don't mind it.

~Titus

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I am a one shot vig.

Scum killing us is good.

~Titus

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Yeah, so who are your scumreads Toog?

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wtf how does this game always move this fast when I'm sleeping but never when I'm awake

catchup at 7:30 AM-ish this will go well

Welcome to my world. Unless you are lucky and enter a mostly European Game, it will move fast mostly at around midnight to 5am

~Shiro

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Toog is really clearly town lol

Yea no. He has been AtEing his was through this whole thing. I have honestly left Titus alone because I would have killed him by now. I want us to be pro town though.

Like I cannot wrap my head around how people don't see it. Even the Ari wagon. Wagons on on other people, no mention of lurkers. Things get stired up about Toog, let's wagon a lurker.

I hate lurkers but my god this cannot be a coincidence. Like toog even told us to shoot Ari, who is potentially the worst person to shoot cause of the zero associations.

[Cookie Bakers]

That was Shiro again.

[Cookie Bakers]

Ari has been posting elsewhere.

Dave, you know I read people through wagons. Right or wrong, it's what I do. You're trying to paint two lynches as scummy is just stupid or scummy. Shiro has you as town, but I don't. You want me to shoot Ari but won't vote for him. We are getting two lynches today. The first just will happen to be one we approve of because we have the hammer.

The only people who have tried to stop this plan are our scumreads, and I do not find that to be a coincidence. Scum don't want a dual lynch.

If Ari is town, you bet scum want him dead before he claims. A dayvig removes a player. We make them claim. We wagon them. The fact you know me better and are still pursuing this irks me.

Toog, I am not playing counter to any ideal group play. I have been pretty consistent on what I have been saying. You're flailing pretty hard. Are you afraid Ari will have a super claim where I can't shoot him?


@Clevage, It's as close as you can get anywhere. You aren't answering how Toog's play is town, you're saying it's not a scumclaim. Shiro and I are both pretty certain Toog is scum.

~Titus

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No. We went over you buying Toog's narrative and ignoring his play. He's more concerned with having us shoot than us getting it right. He's not scumhunting at all. Tog is ONLY doing AtE.

If Ari is scum, then we can get the votes to put him to L minus 1 and intent to hammer no problem. He'll claim or we'll get a scum lynch.

[Cookie Bakers]

Scum have to justify their votes twice as hard and focus on fooling us. People are quaking that I won't shoot Cakey, despite him being available for a second lynch. You're refusing to vote Ari. Toog is too. If Ari is this obvscum, like everyone is peddling, why is it so hard to get votes on him and easy on Cakey?

People aren't quaking at us shooting unilaterally regardless of alignment. Scum are freaking out about justifying their votes.

[Cookie Bakers]

What's your read on Ari Nahdia?

Ari has been lurking and prod dodging the entire game, while posting elsewhere. It's a common scum indicator but I have doubts here.

[Cookie Bakers]

In my place, who would you shoot Dave or beeboy?

Toog or Clevage?

[Cookie Bakers]

If Ari is this obvscum, like everyone is peddling, why is it so hard to get votes on him and easy on Cakey?

Everyone's justifying potentially voting Ari. They just can't be arsed because it seems like a lot of effort over you literally just shooting him and ending it there, rather than wasting time with this whole "ooh lets get him to L-1 first". You're just being stubborn for no reason, and it's a

huge

fucking pain in the ass. Also, no offence here, but we have no reason to trust you over anyone else. Who knows that you won't just vote them and get them regularly lynched since they were at L-1? Yeah yeah, I know, people will see it as scummy, but this is you we're talking about here Titus, and if anyone could pull that shit, it's you.

And here's the quaking. Fear of Titus scum to justify not casting a vote on your scumread when a hammer rather than a dayvig would justify lynching us.

You're the one being stubborn by claiming to scumread Ari but refusing to vote him.

[Cookie Bakers]

In my place, who would you shoot Dave or beeboy?

Parsing, clarify please.

Is that as in "which out of Dave or beeboy would you shoot", or "dave or beeboy, which player would either of you shoot?"

I am asking Nahdia which of those two pairs she'd shoot.

[Cookie Bakers]

Because scum are accountable for their scumreads. Right now, I have a nagging paranoia that the Ari wagon is 100% town on town and scum are trying to justify not being on the wagon and then attacking everyone who voted it.

Scum are going to have to actually push reads in my acceptable pool or try and mislynch Cakey.

@Clevage, Your Cakey wagon was cakewalk.

[Cookie Bakers]

Also titus in reading toogs iso the only thing that really stands out is him taking a pretty aggressive town stance on PW on the back of my page 1 (lol) reasons for voting him and basically using that plus "he's genuine" to call him town and used that as leverage to dig into with his push on beeboy. While ignoring what I've brought up later on.
Could actually be scum after a closer look.
I just think most of your reasoning has been bad. : D

Ok, great. We read the game differently. *shrug*

Let's force these players to take some stances rather than whine about protown play.

[Cookie Bakers]

In my place, who would you shoot Dave or beeboy?

Toog or Clevage?

Dav and... idk?

Toog and Cakey?

Clevage and Cakey?

[Cookie Bakers]

Nah. Actions speak louder than words.

If he has a scumread, he can vote Ari. If not, he won't.

We are not shooting until L minus 1 and a claim happens. That's the protown way to play this.

When scum coast on bullshit to avoid casting votes, then town loses.

[Cookie Bakers]

It's also unhealthy for the gamestate because nobody who's actually playing the game is feeling any pressure right now.

Because we aren't making them vote based on their words.

[Cookie Bakers]

That's the town response.

[Cookie Bakers]

Now Ari claims.

[Cookie Bakers]

As long as it takes or he's replaced.

VC please

[Cookie Bakers]

Now Ari claims.

Oh you are fucking kidding me

VOTE: beeboy

You really want to be anti-town don't you?

[Cookie Bakers]

I'm not gonna park my vote on a vig-ready spot waiting for him to arrive in 12 hours and claim, I'm gonna put my vote on my main scumread, thank you very much. If you have a problem with that, what a fucking shame. I didn't really want to be a part of this damn farce anyway.

And then why aren't you casing obvtown Beeboy? You're wanting to hide aren't you?

Having your vote park on a scumread for 12 hours when the case has been made is a lot better than your parking and doing nothing about it but whine how getting two lynches today is anti-town.

[Cookie Bakers]

That's the town response.

Whether you're correct about that or not.
Do you see what I mean about this wagon giving stilted info?

Feel like I just had deja vu.

Not like from this game but like a long time ago.

Wow that was weird.

That's why we wait on claims. Scum can easily say me too but avoid the wagon to scape goat or avoid BC they don't want their buddy dead or avoid because they want useless lurker bait.

When the claim comes, they must take a stand.

There's plenty of info here in who refuses to join the wagon. There's very little town reason for refusing to comply.

[Cookie Bakers]

Can we get Shiro out? Because that's the only half of the hydra that doesn't believe every word she speaks is some sort of gospel even though it's literally nonsensical half of the time

Shiro agrees with this play I am pushing. She has you as town though, which I don't get.

Vote Ari already.

[Cookie Bakers]

The moment Ari comes back to say "catching up", soon after which he'll certainly see the claim request, I'll happily put him straight back at L-1 (presuming he actually does it while I'm there but that's not my problem).

Nobody claims at L minus 2 Dave. That is unless they are scum or noob.

[Cookie Bakers]

and insisting Cookies was bluffing about the dayvig is dumb and, in your case, bad. Even if he is, you kind of seemed like you were jsut trying to dispel what should be a good thing. if it's a reaction test or whatever, why not let it play out? what value is there in calling the bluff?

I agree. So why aren't you voting Ari?

[Cookie Bakers]

And everyone knows my conditions Dave.

Clevage, your reads are shit.

[Cookie Bakers]

I skimmed it, yeah. I said it was tonal so asking me to pick out specific posts is silly.

What a read reaction to a scumread lol.

(There's another one of those "lol" posts)

What is silly is citing "tonal" so that you don't have to back it up with anything.

Agreed.

Dave and Nahdia are sitting here whining about putting Ari at L minus 1 and not casing their mislynches.

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@Davsto, Your tone is matching the frustration you had at being caught for the wrong reasons in NY 191. I was a shit player there tunnelling town while the rest of the town was just terrible.

[Cookie Bakers]

That's what you tried to argue anyway.

I am sure casing beeboy wouldn't be hard now would it?

[Cookie Bakers]

and now im actually producing content and discussing my thoughts because friggin' Cookies has a goddamn gun and has suggested they scumread me so boohoo. rest in peace day 1 cruise control

No one should be cruise controlling.

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@X, You're the only one calling our bluff. The rest are trying to justify not voting Ari.

Nahdia has a huge double standard for Toog and Dave that is not present with you.

[Cookie Bakers]

Yeah, I am waiting on a case that focuses on beeboy's play, not his typographical errors.

Your thoughts on Nahdia and Mirhawk please?

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@X, Creating the conditions where I shoot is calling my "bluff". Toog is trying to get a shot before a claim or L minus 1, which is scummy. You don't lynch w/o a claim, you don't vig without one.

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Yeah, I am waiting on a case that focuses on beeboy's play, not his typographical errors.

Fuck you.

No, seriously, fuck you.

That is a plenty good case and series of posts, picking out scummy shit that beeboy has done, and you just fucking disregard it because it doesn't fit into your pretty fucking picture of how the game works and you're Titus and you can't possibly be wrong ever

No. I can be wrong, which is why I am insisting on L minus 1 rather than willfully shooting Toog or Nahdia. You're pissed off because I won't mislynch beeboy easily.

You can make a case based on his play if he's scum.

[Cookie Bakers]

shoot Xkfyu

No.

[Cookie Bakers]

I honestly don't know what I expect when I play this game

Nahdia or Ari, who do you shoot? Shiro has a scumread on you so I am going to pressure you.

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Oh yeah Titus, please don't try to enter any future games I'm in, ta.

I won't stop you from going in any games I mod because I'm not an asshole, but I honestly don't enjoy playing with you for all the reasons that I hope I've drilled into you in the vain hope you'll change.

Yeah, I am telling you what you need to do and you won't get it. You're just expecting me to play anti-town because you think it's a good idea. Not going to happen. You could try meeting me halfway and pushing your so called scumreads but all you could muster is a typo.

Shiro still townreads you and I don't get why. You could be town but really if you're that frustrated the protown thing to do would be to put Ari at L minus 1 and leave. Yet, you're hellbent on trying to get me to hammervig without a claim. That's moronic.

[Cookie Bakers]

Like they are both null for me right now

Even after this recent posting by X and Nahdia?

[Cookie Bakers]

It was? Which post?

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Why isn't it? Why did your eyes go to these posts as null flail then? Why didn't X's behavior impact things?

[Cookie Bakers]

You weren't analyzing a lean scum read to see how X interacted with your nullread?

Nah, you're going to tell me why N is null and think it out if you're town. We aren't taking the easy road here.

~Titus

[Cookie Bakers]

A bulletproof with a day modifier. Meaning they'd survive.

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No. That's why I am assuming it doesn't exist.

[Cookie Bakers]

We are not likely to shoot Ari if his claim matches what we think it does.

If that happens, we're shooting Toog or another joint scumread. Shiro and I are getting cold feet on shooting Ari given the situation.

[Cookie Bakers]

Shiro and I are getting cold feet on shooting Ari given the situation.

What situation?

People trying to rush our dayvig on someone who hasn't claimed while doing everything in their power to avoid having him in claim range. That's a huge red flag Ari is town and they don't want Ari's claim to save him.

[Cookie Bakers]

We suggest Toog is scum for active lurking, no takers. Ari is scum, huge wagon but don't let Ari claim.

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@Dav Don't leave us D: I like playing with you : ( And I think you are town this game. Like all this anger for me look totally different from your anger in Denmark.

~Shiro

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Shiro and I are getting cold feet on shooting Ari given the situation.

What situation?

Yea Titus already explained my thoughts.

Like people want Ari dead but they do not want him to claim in L-1 intent range and they are trying to make us kill him before he even claims. This is highly suspicious. Plus look at how easy it was to build the omg let's get Ari, EXACTLY when we started pressing Toog.

This is all very suspiciosu to me

~Shiro

[Cookie Bakers]

Like people want Ari dead but they do not want him to claim in L-1 intent range and they are trying to make us kill him before he even claims. This is highly suspicious. Plus look at how easy it was to build the omg let's get Ari, EXACTLY when we started pressing Toog.

I watch on as shiro slowly becomes titus. The moonlogic has taken over.
There is no going back now.

Weeeeell we do discuss in skype and she posted accordingly with what both of us agree. I mean we mostly just disagreed on Dav. Who I am townreading. I used to be null but yea, Townreading now. I really hope he reconsiders before it is too late and stays.

~Shiro

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Me from skype

Toog is scum. He is tryin got irritate us to make the shot.
He is supposdly a VT in a role madness
all he can d
is contribute during the day
Yet all he does
is trying to call our "Bluff"
He is using the moment with people pressing us to shoot
Ari
Trying to piss us off in order to shoot Ari to "prove" ourselves

I am actually surprised only we are seeing this.
~Shiro

[Cookie Bakers]

It most likely isn't

~Shiro

[Cookie Bakers]

VOTE: Toog

[Cookie Bakers]

We are reivigorating the wagon that should go through

~Shiro

[Cookie Bakers]

So if we do what you want (shoot without a claim) we're town but if we actually proceed with reason, we're scum?

Who is scum? Why aren't you vocally pushing for their death? You're a VT allegedly in a sea full of PRs. Why not try to be so obvtown you have to die? Why is it like pulling teeth to get content from you?

~Titus

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Ari, claim.

Pisskop, read Toog. Tell me what you think.

[Cookie Bakers]

Here's ur summary pisskop;

I've been really towny
Xkfyu has been scummy
Cookies is a dayvig havin a rad powertrip
Ari ain't said squat
The end. Now ur caught up

Oooooh! Cookies is the Dayvig?
Y U Hate me, Titus?
I thought we were friends Shiro!

I'm hurt!

You've been nothing at all.

I am trying to use this vig as a second lynch and getting Bella resistance to anyone who can be scum.

Pisskop, did you claim innocent child like legit or are you bragging?

~Titus

[Cookie Bakers]

Do themed games usually have a vt fakeclaim from scum?

Check the role madness wiki.

~Titus

[Cookie Bakers]

The fact you didn't actually say any components of your role and the way you went, "oh my role isn't very good".

Well it's not...

Well, why not say it? Are you fearing a cc?

[Cookie Bakers]

Yes,I am requesting.

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Ari, whats your wagon for. And why was davsto not wanting to be on it?

Davsto didn't want to have dual lynches because I am an asshole.

~Titus

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I hope someone CCS the roleblocker part for ~reasons~.

If you do, I am more likely to shoot Ari. Offer only good on roleblock.

~Titus

[Cookie Bakers]

Explain please. The right CC means we'll almost certainly be shooting Ari. Which part conflicts?

[Cookie Bakers]

Explain please. The right CC means we'll almost certainly be shooting Ari. Which part conflicts?

He's claiming 1-shot Neighborizer as part of his JOAT. But I'm a Neighborizer and I don't buy there being two town Neighborizers. That's what I meant when I said my claim was confirmable earlier.
My role has other elements to it that I won't reveal yet.

I was hoping for a roleblock specifically because we bypass role blockers. That strongly suggests scum have a roleblocker. I was trying to sit on this to draw a roleblocker CC specifically, hence why I focused on that part.

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@Clevage, I wouldn't. I am assuming scum have a roleblocker, doctor, or some other variant because our night shot is a strongman. Ari is the only claimed roleblocker. Thus, even if Ari is town, we foreclosed a lot of scum fakeclaims.

I was hoping to draw a counterclaim from scum on roleblocker but I think everyone's posted and no one did.

I am going to verify things with Shiro but I think that is where we'll go.

[Cookie Bakers]

Clevage, we're likely dead tonight is our concern. We want to shoot Toog and lynch Ari. If we go the other way, can you promise us hell or high water if we die Toog dies? No wifom justification. No chasing after shiny objects. No nothing. If there's a cop clear, Toog is a godfather. Like no excuses. Do not let Toog win this game as scum by having town rip each other apart ok?

[Cookie Bakers]

Because that's imposing our unilateral will on the group...:/

[Cookie Bakers]

Right now

Clevage Sircakes Pisskop Us all hard townread each other. Getting a cohesive group going can make scum winning impossible. Going to what we want and just what we want undermines the four of us working together.

[Cookie Bakers]

why is toog scum? Hes kind of been dumping on your slot from what Ive read, but nothing special stands out.

As a VT in a role madness, his job is to take bullets and lead town. He's been lurking and avoiding attention instead. He's not making any effort to sort people and is just whining about me being an asshole.

[Cookie Bakers]

Our target is guaranteed to die if we shoot at night and I am presuming no day bulletproof.

So yup. That's it.

Going back to this for a second now that you've stated that your night shot is a strongman.

If your role does specifically state that your target is guaranteed to die at night, then doesn't that imply that they aren't necessarily guaranteed to die during the day?

The reason I ask is because I am now concerned about Toog being BP, and that's why he claimed VT and is trying to get you to shoot him.

No. It doesn't say guaranteed but Strongman bypasses doctor rb and bp so...

It is possible Toog has that, so help us lynch Toog if we shoot Ari (A)

[Cookie Bakers]

Our role pm uses a form similar to uninterruptable

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No, we're agreeing to a scumlynch.

Toog isn't just playing Anti-town, he's playing scum.

[Cookie Bakers]

Clevage, can you answer the question I gave you specifically?

[Cookie Bakers]

I didn't condition lynching Toog on Ari's flip...

[Cookie Bakers]

Dayvig: Ari

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Yeah, but I never wanted to lynch Cakey anyway.

[Cookie Bakers]

Vote:Toog

Should have sticked to my insticts and shot Toog >.> <.<

P.edit:

You are next after Toog cakez

~Shiro

[Cookie Bakers]

Sorry Aristo

~Shiro

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Ehhh not sure on Cakey Shiro...still think he's town

[Cookie Bakers]

Cakez flavour claim




~Shiro

[Cookie Bakers]

Link? I told you to shoot the person you wanted to before.

vote: dwlee

Get in here and do things.

VOTE: Xkfyu

This is also an acceptable vote

The only acceptable vote based on doing nothing is Toog.

[Cookie Bakers]

Flavour of your neighbrohood abbility

Fast SirCakez

[Cookie Bakers]

Great, now let's lynch Toog.

If Toog flips scum, extreme scrutiny for pisskop.

[Cookie Bakers]

Link? I told you to shoot the person you wanted to before.

vote: dwlee

Get in here and do things.

Should have shot Toog, doesn't vote Toog.

Suggests policy lynching conftown.

[Cookie Bakers]

Game is not bastard.

Toog is a scumlynch. Mod confirmed us as Link. Nice try.

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We are not. Pk is obv Toog buddy.

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I mean I was personaly fooled by Dav but yea

kop is scum.

He was telling me to shoot him. So if I did, he could get credit for being ok with shooting scum. Now that that is over, he supports not lynchign him, calls it a PL and doubt casts us.

Yeeeea no.

P.edit:

Yea cakez, Titus trusted me over my townread on Dav, I was apparently wrong.

~Shiro

[Cookie Bakers]

Let's see here

Pk votes Dwelee for lurking.
Ignores Toog's lurking despite being a VT.
Both Toog and Dave and Kop push Titus is an asshole ignore her.
Pisskop tries to doubtcast confirmed town.
Toog and Dave wanted Ari shot preclaim.
Kop says should have shot Toog, votes Dwelee.
Says Toog is policy lynch, votes Dwelee on policy.

[Cookie Bakers]

Clevage, what do you think of PK and Toog?

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Yeah, care to explain PK's massive cogdis on Toog if he's town or why you're trying so hard to block a lynch you're meh on.

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For someone who went about the entire day trying to make it protown and shit, you're sure forgetting that a quick consensus lynch on toog tells us nothing regardless of flip.
I'm not blocking anything.

Toog nets us Pisskop scum too.

A scum lynch is a scum lynch. We get info from who defends it and who votes it.

You clearly were wrong on Cakes trying to divert from Toog and now you're trying to minimize the value of lynching scum knowing full well we are likely dead tonight.

[Cookie Bakers]

*and were trying

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If Sircakez CCed neighborizer, why wouldn't we lynch him? You really think that the town has 2 of them? What did Xfkyu say while j was gone that was scummy?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: sircakez

doubted the shot on Ari.

Why would Cake as scum CC Ari when we were likely to shoot Ari anyway? Cakey is town.

Join on Toog.

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@Clevage, You've been diverting from toog the whole game whether it's PW or Cakey or Ari or X.

We'r confirmed town and likely dead. If you aren't townreading Toog, give us this one.

[Cookie Bakers]

I never had toog as strong scum and never said shit about cakes trying to "divert" from there. I think you're projecting your own moonlogic on to everyone else.

I made a typo and fixed in my next post. You're the one diverting from Toog not Cakey.

[Cookie Bakers]

Toog needs to die and he isn't posting so..... I don't have much to do.

You need to revote Toog. Votes reset.

[Cookie Bakers]

If Sircakez CCed neighborizer, why wouldn't we lynch him? You really think that the town has 2 of them? What did Xfkyu say while j was gone that was scummy?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: sircakez

doubted the shot on Ari.

Why would Cake as scum CC Ari when we were likely to shoot Ari anyway? Cakey is town.

Join on Toog.

What did he do?

Claimed VT and has done nothing in a role madness game. He's not scumhunting he's coasting.

[Cookie Bakers]

@PW, Yeah, like wtf? The only way not to potentially not kill two townies is to no lynch.

Second, speed to wagon isn't alignment indicative. We are conftown, sheeping us isn't a problem.

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Everyone's telling me to vote this person or vote that person but they're not giving me good reasons to. You say that toog hasn't done much. Well we just killed someone for not doing much and that didn't turn out so well. And nobody is even telling me why they want Xfkyu dead. I don't really know what's going on

ChecCheck out PK's posts after the vig and tell me they aren't buddies defending each other.

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Waffling, doubt casting, opportunism etc

^ that's why Xk has to go. Toog claimed VT in Role Madness.

That's why PK and Toog must die.

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I have an opportunistic vote on my buddy, then?

See, this kinda stuff.
Clearly townposting.

Fify.

PW is annoying but obvtown.

[Cookie Bakers]

And it's not only just that his posts are hollow most of the time.
It's that now that we aren't in limbo and actually are free to push for lynches we went. He's still directionless and isn't doing anything that resembles pushing the people he thinks are scum.
Unless you count his naked vote on toog, I guess.

Beeboy is directionless. We should lynch him.
Toog is direction less. We should find any other wagon to lynch because Toog claimed VT.

[Cookie Bakers]

Yeah, your hypocrisy is showing. Beeboy and X questioned your reads and you want to lynch them. Cakez was against you. PW was against you.



You couldn't try to lynch us BC we had dayvig.

Your reads aren't scumhunting but just defending the fuck out of Toog. Knock it off. If you don't have a townread, let me have this one.

Hen you can chase town into the ground with yourcrap.

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@Cakez, Not anymore due to the blatant hypocrisy used to push Beeboy's lynch over caught scum Toog and PK.

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Yeah, your hypocrisy is showing. Beeboy and X questioned your reads and you want to lynch them. Cakez was against you. PW was against you.

Sorry titus I'm not you. I don't lynch people just for disagreeing with me.

Really, you didn't want to lynch X until he disagreed with the Ari shot. Would I find the same pattern if I looked with your other reads (minus us). I bet I would.

[Cookie Bakers]

You couldn't try to lynch us BC we had dayvig.

When did I push a lynch on you?
Never.
Stop creating stupid noise and work for your toog mislynch.

I said you never could. Now you're not even reading and trying to give Toog an excuse to do nothing while attacking town.

Stop being an asshole. Show Toog as town by play or get out of the way.

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wholly cow the irony is palpable. shut up titus and let people who arent consumed by hubris post

Yes, Clevage needs toshut up if town.

You still haven't responded to the blantant hypocrisy that was your Dwlee vote whilesaying I should have shot Toog.g

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Yeah, your hypocrisy is showing. Beeboy and X questioned your reads and you want to lynch them. Cakez was against you. PW was against you.

Sorry titus I'm not you. I don't lynch people just for disagreeing with me.

This is not why we are voting Toog at all

~Shiro

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Pisskop, Toog will never post if you keep hard defending him.

PW, That middle post is very townie.

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Oh bullshit you're not defending Toog. You'rejumping on any counter with a pulse and saying the same reasons for scumreading Toog apply but letting Toog coast.

You're doing everything in your power to doubtcast our motives, since you doubt are alignment.

[Cookie Bakers]

*you can't doubt our alignment

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Titus you're being weird. I'm not mad anymore. But you preach all the time about VCA sucking balls when there's no "choice."
I'm trying to give people a choice.
The composition of XK's wagon is all town.
Toog's isn't. That's why I'm worried.

This post is wrong on so many levels. You don't want choice. You're trying to prove you have the bigger dick. Your wagon has scum on it. Mine does not.

We have had choices. People spoke. It's time to lynch scum. Time to lynch Toog. Stop defending someone you aren't townreading. I am townreading X.

Pisskop and Toog are scum.

[Cookie Bakers]

Your wagon has scum on it. Mine does not.

This is the thought that I'm actually the most afraid of.

You're afraid of my reads being right? They've been pretty consistent so far and my claim saved town Cakes.

P.S. I haven't been wrong on Cakes inBorderlands or the last pen we did together.

Can you just consider me being right as not scary?

[Cookie Bakers]

Your wagon has scum on it. Mine does not.

Are you seriously calling Beeboy and Xky town?

Yes.