Mini 1774: Formation of America's Mafiascum - Perfect Town W

[Persivul]

VOTE: Firebringer

Just tradition.

[Persivul]

Sorry, didn't expect a wagon so soon.

UNVOTE:

[Persivul]

Yep, just looked at the player list and chose an RVS vote.

[Persivul]

Sorry, didn't expect a wagon so soon.

UNVOTE:

Dude you put him at l-1

You're aware of the situation and have a vote on Firebringer, but didn't unvote. Why not?

[Persivul]

VOTE: persivul
If it was a random vote why say "just tradition" while voting??

It wasn't a random vote. It was a RVS vote. Despite the R, those votes generally aren't random. Do you think everyone voting FB went to a random number generator and all got the same value?

[Persivul]

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch (

even for the unknowing hated

).

Mod, can you clarify this? Seems to contradict the meaning of

hated

.

[Persivul]

Oh, and guess what: I've read the thread now and it turns out my vote was only L-2 anyway. FB incorrectly put beeboy on the wagon. When FB said he was at L-1, then "corrected" it to L-2, he was really at L-3.

Panic much?

[Persivul]

For the Freedom of Assembly, For the Right to Bear Arms, Against the Quartering of Soldiers in Homes, Against Unreasonable Searches and Seizures, Against Taxation Without Representation,

For a Fair Trial

, For the Freedom of Religion (or from Religion), and the Freedom to Trade With Any Nation Desired

If the name of the protest hints at its action, I'd say For a Fair Trial is most likely to remove the hated status, and I suggest we all vote for it tonight.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Firebringer

Too much screwing around.

[Persivul]

I still think we should protest against taxation without representation.

Why, what do you think it accomplishes?

[Persivul]

Except if I had read the game I would have noted when I voted that it wasn't L-1, thus avoiding the whole controversy - duh.

[Persivul]

I find it interesting how Kill made two bigger posts directly after I called him out for not doing anything.

That's not a fair charge. If he continues to do nothing, you continue to suspect him for that. If he does something, you say it's suspicious that he did something in response to being called out. It's like asking someone if they've stopped kicking puppies yet.

[Persivul]

You know what fuck it
Dayvig: Kill

If this is real then why oh why wasn't it on firebringer?

[Persivul]

Please do lynch me, I really don't want to be involved in the train wreck that this game is going to be.

[Persivul]

Omg Ate already. We caught scum ladies and gentlemen.

Yeah you got me.

[Persivul]

Not Voting (2): Persivul

mod, I'm on Firebringer per 68. Thanks.

Fixed. ~Titus

[Persivul]

This is like the first time people are following me, this distresses me.

Why? Don't you think you have a good reason to vote me?

[Persivul]

I don't like this wagon on sir cakez

What do you think of the wagon on me?

[Persivul]

I like it alot better.

Why? Do you really think I'd play scum this badly?

[Persivul]

Looking at my wagon:

Kill appears to be unfamiliar with me, and then unvoted - town points
Cakez to my knowledge doesn't know me, and could just be voting for D1 pressure - null

Shiro and FB have some knowledge of me and should know better, particularly FB.

[Persivul]

I played one game with per before and he replaced out. I should know better indeed. I forgot I was a master of using a small sample to solve every game in the future forever. My apologies. :p

I couldn't remember our experience together, and so I said especially FB. I'll take your vote as null too.

And, I would have accepted a response from FB like

I was just playing along with the fake hydra thing

, but I don't like the response he gave.

[Persivul]

It's just an appeal to wifom.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Dierfire

Dubious honor of both longest elapsed time and fewest posts. Cat got your tongue?

[Persivul]

Also FB - lean town

p-edit: was sorting FB. I think he's town.

[Persivul]

FTR, when I got some suspicion I purposely let the wagon go to see who would get on it.

[Persivul]

I'd like to see more from

Nosferatu

and

Beeboy

.

You're seriously going to ask for more from two people who have both more posts than you, and more content in those posts? I just read your ISO and there's nothing there - it's all fluff.

VOTE: Klingon

[Persivul]

don't think that "present but not doing much" is a read that addresses the concerns about SirCakez that I and others have expressed

He could be scum, but I am going to give him more time, he seems like an easy mislynch if he is town tho.

That's one scummy freakin' post.

[Persivul]

Intent to hammer!

[Persivul]

I'm behind in the game, but I like your wagon, particularly nos, alch, kill, and bbm. That's pretty good company to be in. Care to claim?

[Persivul]

Well that's interesting.

[Persivul]

@Persivul, Cakez already claimed VT so you can hammer.

Kill jumped off the wagon.

[Persivul]

NM, I see he's back on.

Just a reminder that

For a Fair Trial

sounds like it might undo our Hated person and so is a good protest to vote for.

VOTE: Cakez

[Persivul]

The hated townie has lost their status as hated.

Oh yeah, I called that one baby...

[Persivul]

VOTE: Firebringer

[Persivul]

Not in this game anyway. On the Speakeasy, I probably take one less vote to lynch...

[Persivul]

Whatcha think about FB? Tunneled WA all of yesterday. Trying to buddy people and get them to sheep him. Not his typical town play.

[Persivul]

Hm, gut feeling is that scum would not want to tunnel someone early game because the repercussions of that would damage a scum position late game.

How so?

[Persivul]

I need to reread to find scum.

Start with FB ISO.

[Persivul]

that is one of those game moves that will come back to bite you because behavior like that would be able to hang you easily if the suspicion begins to turn against him.

Holy shit that's one heck of a non-answer. There's words there, sure, but they don't add a damn thing.

[Persivul]

Why? Is being called out for tunneling better some how if it happens on page 14 or page 45? Also on the subject of tunneling I do not feel like Firebringer would have any reason to do this as scum because in the event he is wrong, that places all the focus on him as one of the main drivers of the train.

How would he be wrong as scum? That makes no sense. You're quite defensive of FB, yesterday and today.

For this reason, I think I can say with slight reasonablness right now that Firebringer is a slight town lead for me.

Very defensive of him, but it still only amounts to a slight, slight town read...in case he flips red maybe?

[Persivul]

FB and Suzie sittin' in a tree, s-c-u-m-i-n-g...

p-edit: you got both of those right beeboy

[Persivul]

I can do that. Still a lot of work to do but either of these two are good starters. Need to check their interactions with cakez.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Suzune

[Persivul]

Nos has to be town. I cannot see yesterday's cakez/nos being contrived D1 SvS distancing.

Cakes reads suz as townie and FB as scummy early in the day, but then doesn't mention them at all, instead focusing on nos and me.

[Persivul]

Final cakez wagon: Nosterfaru, Alchemist21, Dierfire, beeboy, BBMolla, Killthestory, Persivul

Kill acted weird at the end, like maybe he would get a power if he hammered, but if town why not just say so? BB, Kill and myself could have been scum jumping on for town cred. Nos, alch, dier, and beeboy are probably town.

[Persivul]

FB and Suzie sittin' in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g

p-edit: you got both of those right beeboy

Fixed.

You wish.

I had an interesting night btw.

Yeah, killing a very powerful opponent must have been interesting.

Ill talk about that later.

No one likes a tease...

[Persivul]

Yep, I totally killed Widow Attack, because clearly me pushing them all day would totally not implicate me at all when they die. Like, what?

You were the one pushing them - don't pretend you didn't see their soft claim, which made the kill worth it.

[Persivul]

So FB posts lead you to vote molla because...?

[Persivul]

I just ISO'd you to make sure I'm not missing something but you really never have provided evidence or examples of your claims.
Nor have any others that just jumped on us.

I'm going to die laughing if we get lynched like this. You have literally go no idea how badly you will screw yourselves over.

Soft claim made to FB.

[Persivul]

Really, no one likes a tease. If you guys (FB and Suz) are gonna claim neighbors or something, just do it already.

I'm not buying suz's push on beeboy.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Firebringer

No one likes a tease.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Klingon

[Persivul]

I was pushing you D1. You replied you're bad at D1. Now it's D2 and you don't have that excuse.

[Persivul]

I'd say claiming that you have info from night phase but not sharing it is anti-town.

[Persivul]

I had an interesting night btw. Ill talk about that later.

I got some mail last night Suzune. Did you send this my way/

VOTE: Firebringer

Staying there until you explain this.

[Persivul]

Because he said he would.

[Persivul]

You tell me - what's the town motivation for saying that you have information from night phase, but not sharing it?

There are good reasons to withhold such information. Maybe it's not conclusive, and so you: don't want scum to know or think you're a PR; or, you want to trap potential scum in a lie. But, it then makes no sense to say you have information and will talk about it later.

[Persivul]

So vote her.

[Persivul]

It would be mine to share, and at this point there is no reason to share it. Have a little faith in me.

No. It should have been kept quiet, or fully disclosed. In my first game here goodmorning was scum and coasted for a couple days on a vague soft claim which was pointed out by her scum partner.

[Persivul]

WTF suzune stop quit the 1v1 with beeboy, it's nothing but a distraction.

[Persivul]

UNVOTE:
This phase is a mess.

[Persivul]

I'm still liking my vote for Shiro because I don't see a good reason for Shiro to cast so many votes with which Shiro appears to disagree (376, 454, 639). It definitely seems more like Shiro wants to emphasize the interaction with Firebringer, but not to actually persuade Firebringer to use the partnership well.

Funny, I was thinking the opposite, considering she went on after 639 to ask FB to honor the deal, then scum reads him for breaking it.

[Persivul]

I don't quite understand what's going on with Firebringer but I assume that Suzune has a good reason to trust him.

Why do you assume that? What is the town motivation for their play?

[Persivul]

Persivul, you are tickling my scum sensors now.
Cause this is EXACTLY how you pushed me in your scum games.

Which games?

Off the top of my head all I remember is Blitz 1, and IIRC we weren't concerned with pushing you at all on D1.

[Persivul]

I think that the better question is this: what is the reason for them to make that play as Mafia that will not be exposed in time? For example, if we get to D4 and they offer a reason for the behavior that is obviously insufficient to justify it, then we'd lynch them anyway.

To cruise to D4, meanwhile killing me and anyone else who takes an interest in it.

[Persivul]

Game is stagnating.
Sorry Kling

VOTE: Klingoncelt

Out of everyone your still a null read for me.

You'd vote a Null read?

C'mon, Fire, that's bullshit.

That post stuck out to me as well.

If we're going to vote someone just because the game is stagnating, at least make it kill for being annoying.

[Persivul]

kill is utterly useless and I can PL lynch him.

It's like how I felt with the first time I played with Fire but kill isn't even funny

Brilliant observation.

[Persivul]

IIRC I played a game as scum and KC was town in a hydra, and they were always getting run up because yeah, the thought processes were really scattered.

[Persivul]

There's 5 days left guys.

[Persivul]

OK, I think I know where I want to go but I need to do some meta first.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Shiro

[Persivul]

So give us a current reads list.

[Persivul]

That was the worst catchup I've ever seen.

[Persivul]

aggressively null people
should be lynched

Huh, that's an interesting thought.

[Persivul]

Yeah, I think she's saying that aggressively null people are scummy.

[Persivul]

Can we actually get some activity? Kling is a slight townlean and has content and will probably be obvious by tomorrow so I don't really like that lynch. Shiro has 0 content but out of the 4 people on her wagon I am townreading exactly 0 of them so in my mind that is never going to be an actual scum lynch.

Those 4 people were all on the D1 scum lynch with your slot.

[Persivul]

So vote Shiro.

[Persivul]

I need to catch up. I voted for freedom of assembly. Since there was a hated before, I thought this might give us a loved.

[Persivul]

Just did quite a bit of review and I don't see why kling isn't back on the board. She was on the Window CW to cakez and on the Shiro lynch. She's mostly defended and her few reads are weak and feel like scum making the obligatory list under pressure.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

[Persivul]

Beeboy was on the cakez lynch. Kling was on the counter wagon.

[Persivul]

I just read beeboy's ISO and I don't see scum there at all. Your 975 reminds me of when I'm scum and want to manufacture a case on someone.

[Persivul]

She asked me to say it.
She is continueing to write a narrative where I am twisting her words which I am not doing.
I am obv town me and cakes would have scum reads on each other when we where both easy wagon contenders day 1 when

we both don't like to bus

.

I am so ok with my vote it isn't funny.

oh beeboy, clearly I was teasing you. Sorry if you missed it.

You are far from obvious town though.

Did you play borderlands 2?

Cakes never gave a good reason for me being scum day 1 for a reason.
He never tried getting me lynched beyond that for a reason.

I hard town read both my buddies when they where under pressure for a reason.

As players we don't bus

and it is obv you should know that if you are really critically scum reading me right now.

UNVOTE:
Does not look like the best option right now.

Huh you may actually be town after all.

If it is any consolation I still like you for scum.

Then go reread my interaction with cakes again.
Out of all the viable wagons he could have pushed when he was at L-3 he wouldn't choose a scum buddy since I could help him drive a mislynch.
Also

I wouldn't just hard bus

a buddy like that.

Sorry folks, tax season has me brain dead. I went to do some meta on beeboy and realized that I just finished a game with him (Open 630) in which he was scum, and bussed his partner D1. Not liking him so much now.

[Persivul]

Snap, beeboy is now Ranger. This should be interesting.

[Persivul]

For the record: I don't like Persivul's white knight of my slot, nor the sudden turnaround on it. This behavior matches his scum game and not his town game.

What games are you referring to?

[Persivul]

Who did I WK and then turn around and condemn in the next post in Open 612? And what other scum games did I do it in?

Really though with this start on top of the beeboy ISO and beeboy's activity in our last scum game, I'm cool going up against you. Let's do it!

VOTE: Ranger

[Persivul]

{Firebringer}
{Alchemist21, Killthestory}
{Nosferatu, Dierfire, Klingoncelt}
{BBMolla}
{Suzune}
{itlepip, Persivul}

One.

Are these page numbers that you've read through? Cause I didn't post until page 3...

[Persivul]

It wasn't the very next post,

So, you haven't seen this behavior in me as scum before. You've seen my reads change over time and pages as scum. They also do that as town.

[Persivul]

Spoiler:

I need to catch up. I voted for freedom of assembly. Since there was a hated before, I thought this might give us a loved.

Just did quite a bit of review and I don't see why kling isn't back on the board. She was on the Window CW to cakez and on the Shiro lynch. She's mostly defended and her few reads are weak and feel like scum making the obligatory list under pressure.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

Beeboy was on the cakez lynch. Kling was on the counter wagon.

I just read beeboy's ISO and I don't see scum there at all. Your 975 reminds me of when I'm scum and want to manufacture a case on someone.

Snap, beeboy is now Ranger. This should be interesting.

She asked me to say it.
She is continueing to write a narrative where I am twisting her words which I am not doing.
I am obv town me and cakes would have scum reads on each other when we where both easy wagon contenders day 1 when

we both don't like to bus

.

I am so ok with my vote it isn't funny.

oh beeboy, clearly I was teasing you. Sorry if you missed it.

You are far from obvious town though.

Did you play borderlands 2?

Cakes never gave a good reason for me being scum day 1 for a reason.
He never tried getting me lynched beyond that for a reason.

I hard town read both my buddies when they where under pressure for a reason.

As players we don't bus

and it is obv you should know that if you are really critically scum reading me right now.

UNVOTE:
Does not look like the best option right now.

Huh you may actually be town after all.

If it is any consolation I still like you for scum.

Then go reread my interaction with cakes again.
Out of all the viable wagons he could have pushed when he was at L-3 he wouldn't choose a scum buddy since I could help him drive a mislynch.
Also

I wouldn't just hard bus

a buddy like that.

Sorry folks, tax season has me brain dead. I went to do some meta on beeboy and realized that I just finished a game with him (Open 630) in which he was scum, and bussed his partner D1. Not liking him so much now.

OK, these posts were enough to put me at the bottom of your reads. Seems a little like OMGUS...

[Persivul]

P-edit, um Peri, why are you so worried.

I'm not at all worried. As noted, I welcome her pushing me on nothing, as I know how I'll flip if it gets to that. I think Ranger v. Pers wagons could do town a lot of good.

[Persivul]

You are my gut town read and you are making me worried and when I am worried reads change.

Really? I'm worried all the time. Doesn't mean my reads change all the time. I'm worried about your kinda sorta secret power that you won't explain...I'm worried because you weren't on ANY of the cakez, the WA CW, or the Shiro lynches...if you're still alive tomorrow after kinda claiming I'll be worried...

[Persivul]

Basically: mislynch me. Lynch itlepip and Persivul.

We agree on something. We three should be the lynch pool today.

[Persivul]

Dare you to, so much as once, find me OMGUS someone as scum.

DARE you.

I'll wait. I have ten scum games. Find one where I attack a player after they have attacked me, rather than vice-versa. (I always attack first as scum. Always. And can show it in post numbers, 100% of the time.) It shouldn't be that hard, should it? Ten games isn't much to search through, and they're all listed clearly on my game history.

I don't OMGUS as scum. People accuse me of OMGUSing, sure, but it never is.

Interestingly, this is only a defense against the scum charge if you admit that you actually did OMGUS me in this game. So, even if you're town (which I don't believe), you're reading the thread with an initial faulty scum read on me and conf biasing as you go.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Klingoncelt.

As of 41.

I am waiting until you reach a point I want to talk about, then you can tell me if you still think that is a good lynch order.

Whatever that point was, I've reached it.

My reads haven't changed. It honestly doesn't matter which of {Klingoncelt, Persivul} we lynch first; both are scum. So, more or less, my order remains unchanged, although I'm currently voting Klingoncelt because the wagon there is larger.

Between beeboy's multiple lies about busing and your OMGUS on me and itlepip I was cool with you as scum, but when I went to bed last night, one thing was bothering me: scum!Ranger would want to discredit me, but she wouldn't want to lynch me. Rather, she would NK me and claim that scum were framing her if pressured on it. Now you've removed that doubt.

Town!Ranger would push me here. There's over 11 days left in phase, there's only two votes on kling, and she's been wagoned before. It makes no sense for town to come in, make as many posts on me as you did, but then just drop the push before it has time to take off.

[Persivul]

Kling, you are looking very desperate here. Just like yesterday.
It might just be Kling and Persivul.

Cool, vote me.

[Persivul]

Wow, a lot of shit going on and no one has an opinion.

[Persivul]

It's pers - and I thought you said that my flip on beeboy was the towniest thing I've done...

[Persivul]

it was,

OK.

but flipping back again is super bad and makes your previous worse.

OK, but I haven't given any signals that I'm doing that, so I don't see why you're bringing it up. I know that this isn't distancing, but don't be surprised if Ranger makes that charge.

The key is that I don't have any faith that you actually have reads on a slot that I am pretty sure is scum. You jumping around wagons based on how the game is progressing isn't towny.

Wagons are indeed townie. Lynching scum is townie. If I were scum I would have been all over that WA CW.

[Persivul]

BTW, you should check your own slot's D1 play. On the WA wagon most of the day, called one cakez post bad and jumped on the wagon. Is that jumping wagons based on how the game is progressing?

[Persivul]

I will explain tomorrow.

This should be interesting. That was the weirdest turn of events I've ever seen. She shouldn't be the lynch...hammer...guarantee she's scum...WTF?

I'm voting No Quartering tonight.

[Persivul]

Nice, who made the shot?

[Persivul]

Rip one of my stongest town reads.
Suzune, we will win this for you!

VOTE: Persivul

I think this will end it.

VOTE: Persivul

Firebringer why didn't you shoot him last night? If Kling flipped scum I was gonna sheep and kill Persivul with my gun, but since you were scumreading him I figured you were going to shoot him so I shot my personal suspect and kill Dierfire.

VOTE: Persivul

It all worked out in the end, but guys...seriously?

[Persivul]

VOTE: Peri

What was that? Didn't you think it was worth waiting to see if Ranger would hammer?