Individual-1 (Donald Trump)

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Post Post #0  (isolation #0)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:04 am

I like him, and voted for him in the Texas primary, but I'm interested in what you all think. I'm sure I will be putting my self back on the MS most wanted list with this admission, but I'm interested in finding out.
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Post Post #2  (isolation #1)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:08 am

Sadly I think we will all be disappointed as to how normal his presidency will be. He's not a lunatic.
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Post Post #3  (isolation #2)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:08 am

Now Bernie Sanders.... there's a crazy man.
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Post Post #5  (isolation #3)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:13 am

Wait Psyche why do we have the same title....
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Post Post #8  (isolation #4)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:35 am

In post 6, Katsuki wrote:VOTE: SHOTTY

12 years and you will be serious about that vote.
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Post Post #10  (isolation #5)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:59 am

He is decimating the playing field.
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Post Post #11  (isolation #6)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:20 am

I would also like to take this time to point out that you can connect to Internet Explorer from a Wendy's POS.
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Post Post #19  (isolation #7)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:14 pm

In post 18, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 17, Glork wrote:Shotty, I'd like to know exactly WHY you support Donald Trump. What policies of his do you agree with, and for what reasons? Because I'm perfectly willing to have a civil and productive conversation with a Trump supporter, except that I have yet to encounter one whose answer to the question "why" isn't some generic bullshit about "he speaks his mind" or "he tells it like it is." Those are deflective non-answers from people who aren't willing to admit that they don't understand his platform or policies, or people who aren't willing to straight-up admit that they're racist bigots.

this x100000000000000000000000

I'm at work, but I will get you a detailed explanation after work.
Also Reck I'm much different now, I would have hated the me you new 6 years ago as well. I don't plan on going the fuck away again, but who knows.
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Post Post #20  (isolation #8)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:17 pm

In post 17, Glork wrote:At this point, I'm basically assuming that anyone who votes/supports Trump is an unabashed racist.


There is a huge difference between race and legal status, remember that.
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Post Post #22  (isolation #9)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:23 pm

In post 21, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 17, Glork wrote:Categorizing most Mexicans as rapists

But he didn't. That's simply false.
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Post Post #27  (isolation #10)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:45 pm

In post 26, Glork wrote:http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/dec/21/2015-lie-year-donald-trump-campaign-misstatements/

A good explanation of how you (shotty) are buying into the rhetoric of a chronic liar. MANY fact-checking groups have shown a large majority of Trump's claims and statements to be completely untruthful. Why do you support this?

One loaded question at a time please. I'll get to all of this! Any one feeling graphs?
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Post Post #31  (isolation #11)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:41 pm

In post 29, zoraster wrote:
In post 19, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 18, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 17, Glork wrote:Shotty, I'd like to know exactly WHY you support Donald Trump. What policies of his do you agree with, and for what reasons? Because I'm perfectly willing to have a civil and productive conversation with a Trump supporter, except that I have yet to encounter one whose answer to the question "why" isn't some generic bullshit about "he speaks his mind" or "he tells it like it is." Those are deflective non-answers from people who aren't willing to admit that they don't understand his platform or policies, or people who aren't willing to straight-up admit that they're racist bigots.

this x100000000000000000000000

I'm at work, but I will get you a detailed explanation after work.
Also Reck I'm much different now, I would have hated the me you new 6 years ago as well. I don't plan on going the fuck away again, but who knows.


If your first contribution to the site in six years, or whatever it is, is to post fawning Donald Trump things, I suspect if you're different, it's not in a good way.

Have you seen the South Park where they have to decide between a douche and a turd?
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Post Post #32  (isolation #12)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:52 pm

In post 23, Glork wrote:I know that, but three things here:
1) Trump's comments weren't directed at only-illegal-immigrants-from-Mexico

Corre
2) Being an illegal immigrant still doesn't make you a rapist

blue is blue
3) Trump's comments about Muslims are arguably worse than his statements about Mexicans, and while Islam is technically a religion as opposPogChampd to a race, the combination of his statements towards both groups is indicative of a systemic xenophobic attitude

It's called a moratorium and it happened in WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and the Cold War. It's not racist, it is logical. If I gave you a bowl of 10,000 M&M's and told you one was poison how many would you eat?

Many GOP members (and candidates!) want stricter immigration law AND stronger enforcement of said law. And most of them aren't inflammatory racists like Donald Trump is.

First off Donald Trump isn't. Second, truly only Ted Cruz is the only other (GOP) candidate who wants as strict of regulations as Trump does.
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Post Post #35  (isolation #13)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:26 pm

In post 17, Glork wrote:At this point, I'm basically assuming that anyone who votes/supports Trump is an unabashed racist.


I can understand being conservative. I can understand being fed up with the establishment (esp the GOP establishment). What I absolutely cannot comprehend is how anybody could support Trump's obvious racism, pathological lying and backtracking, and willingness to sell out to anyone and anything to increase his publicity.

Racism - we will have to disagree on motives here and there is no sure fire way of knowing which of us is right so I'll drop this one.
Pathological Lying - I would like some sources here.
Backtracking - Why is it back tracking when it's not wanted by the democrats, but it is proving you can be flexible when it is? People change and opinions change. This is why I don't support Ted Cruz, and why I would consider voting Bernie before I vote Ted, he has no flexibility. A leader need to be able to change their mind and work out deals, that in the best possible manner, represent the people they are representing.
Willingness to sell out to anyone and anything to increase his publicity - again sources here please, he is a businessman I'm sure he sells a lot, but he isn't a political whore.

Categorizing most Mexicans as rapists
Categorizing all Muslims as terrorists
Advocating war crimes by insisting that we bomb extremists' families
Making fun of a disabled reporter
Encouraging violence from his supporters by promising to cover legal fees for those who perform violent acts in his name

Mexicans - again acknowledging that there is a criminal element to mixed in with the non criminal is far from saying that most Mexicans are rapist. It is true. My three nieces where raped by three different husbands of my sister in law. All three were illegal immigrants one of them was one of the girls father. They have all since been deported for crimes and have all made their way back to West Chicago, Illinois. This doesn't make all Mexicans or illegal immigrants rapist, but that element does exist and the current system does not stop them from coming freely into our country and over our seemingly non-existent borders.

Muslims - I don't have a personal anecdote for this demographic, but the same principal applies. Even if 1/10000 are terrorists we need to take some time to figure out a better process and in the mean time we need to stop all immigration. You wouldn't leave your water lines uncapped while you waited for the plumber to figure out which sink is best for you would you?

Bombing extremists - We did much worse to Japan in the name of security, why should we be less aggressive with a better armed, better funded, and more advanced enemy? How many extremist families lives are you loved ones worth? It is opportunity cost, and, while tragic, in some cases you have to choose the best terrible choice, or in a few years you won't have that luxury.

Reporter - This is a non-story, he didn't know the man was disabled and he hadn't seen the man in 15 years. Try to impersonate someone who you haven't seen in 15 years, and wasn't disabled when you last saw him. Trump waved his arms around, if you take that personally, it is your fault. He could have been impersonating people who had been tasered and people with seizures or any plethora of other people. Hillary Clinton barked on stage, is she mocking bitches everywhere?

Legal Fees - He was talking to the police in the instance you are referencing, and said he would cover there court fees is the protesters tried to sue them. In my opinion that is some much needed respect for our officers in blue. You have the right to protest, but not the right to trespass or disrupt private functions. I hold the protests at fault not Trump. You don't see Trump supporters interrupting Clinton or Sanders' rallies.

These words simply don't come from a person with a shred of moral fiber. To support him is to support white supremacy, oppression of good and innocent people, and the complete disregard of United States law.

I hate to say it(actually I don't), but in no United States law do non citizens have any protections under our constitution. Donald Trump is no white supremacist, in fact the KKK is a historically liberal and Democrat group, and they, for the longest time, where the military branch of the Democrat Party. Also if you entered this country illegally, you are not innocent, you are guilty of tax and legal fraud, having an illegal presence in this country, and if you brought others with you, then you are guilty of human trafficking. Criminals are criminals, and I'm sick of law abiding citizens have to pay the price for others breaking our countries laws, and our government for allowing our borders to be decimated.

Shotty, I'd like to know exactly WHY you support Donald Trump. What policies of his do you agree with, and for what reasons? Because I'm perfectly willing to have a civil and productive conversation with a Trump supporter, except that I have yet to encounter one whose answer to the question "why" isn't some generic bullshit about "he speaks his mind" or "he tells it like it is." Those are deflective non-answers from people who aren't willing to admit that they don't understand his platform or policies, or people who aren't willing to straight-up admit that they're racist bigots.

I will get to this in a few hours. Let me preface my explanation with this, I do not agree with Trump 100% nor do I agree with any candidate 100%, but there is a time when you have to take you emotions and your morality out of the equation and do what is necessary. More on this tonight.
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Post Post #36  (isolation #14)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:29 pm

In post 34, xRECKONERx wrote:The fuck does "blue is blue" mean?

And if you're really espousing WW2-era Japanese internment camps as a good idea -- one of the worst mistakes in modern US history -- then you're lost.

The blue comment was me pointing out that mexican != rapist is as pointless to say as blue == blue.

Also, the internment camps where completely separate from the moratorium, they where passed together, but in no way are they the same thing.
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Post Post #41  (isolation #15)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:57 pm

In post 40, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 35, drmyshottyizsik wrote:Muslims - I don't have a personal anecdote for this demographic, but the same principal applies. Even if 1/10000 are terrorists we need to take some time to figure out a better process and in the mean time we need to stop all immigration. You wouldn't leave your water lines uncapped while you waited for the plumber to figure out which sink is best for you would you?

More acts of terrorism have been carried out by Christians than Muslims in the US since 9/11. Thoughts? Should we put a moratorium on Christian immigration too?

Yes! We need to stop ALL immigration until we hit a point that we can control what is already going on here.
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Post Post #48  (isolation #16)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:04 pm

In post 47, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 35, drmyshottyizsik wrote:Mexicans - again acknowledging that there is a criminal element to mixed in with the non criminal is far from saying that most Mexicans are rapist. It is true. My three nieces where raped by three different husbands of my sister in law. All three were illegal immigrants one of them was one of the girls father. They have all since been deported for crimes and have all made their way back to West Chicago, Illinois. This doesn't make all Mexicans or illegal immigrants rapist, but that element does exist and the current system does not stop them from coming freely into our country and over our seemingly non-existent borders.

And I was molested by a white Christian male, but you don't see me implying all white Christian men are homosexual kid diddlers.

No but I don't here you making a case to go get a bunch of white males with unknown backgrouds to move in with you either.
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Post Post #49  (isolation #17)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:04 pm

In post 47, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 35, drmyshottyizsik wrote:Mexicans - again acknowledging that there is a criminal element to mixed in with the non criminal is far from saying that most Mexicans are rapist. It is true. My three nieces where raped by three different husbands of my sister in law. All three were illegal immigrants one of them was one of the girls father. They have all since been deported for crimes and have all made their way back to West Chicago, Illinois. This doesn't make all Mexicans or illegal immigrants rapist, but that element does exist and the current system does not stop them from coming freely into our country and over our seemingly non-existent borders.

And I was molested by a white Christian male, but you don't see me implying all white Christian men are homosexual kid diddlers.

No but I don't here you making a case to go get a bunch of white males with unknown backgrouds to move in with you either.
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Post Post #51  (isolation #18)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:08 pm

In post 50, inte wrote:FYI the study that trump referenced when he made the 'mexicans are raping women on the way to america' comment was actually factually interpreted wrong

its actaully the coyotes, not the actually illegal immigrants, that are raping women in exchange for getting over the border

Coyotes are part of the process, a process that results definitively in crimes being perpetrated. Why is it wrong to want our laws enforced?
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Post Post #53  (isolation #19)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:15 pm

In post 46, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 35, drmyshottyizsik wrote:the KKK is a historically liberal and Democrat group

Yes, and the Democratic party also used to be the party most popular among Southern white evangelicals. Different party, different times, and this statement is willfully ignorant of that fact.

If you look at the states that have voted for Hillary Clinton I think that still apllies to the democrat party. Also it is the same party, and the KKK is still made up of a majority of democrats.
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Post Post #54  (isolation #20)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:16 pm

In post 52, Alchemist21 wrote:What are coyotes?

Human traffickers typicaly from Cuba, Mexico and other latin american countries.
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Post Post #57  (isolation #21)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:20 pm

In post 33, toolenduso wrote:All the other awful things about Trump aside, I'm living in a city that could basically be swallowed by a river before the end of the century.

So there's no way I can support a person who doesn't want to do anything about it.

I suggest moving because, sorry to burst you false guilt global warming bubble, the climate is always changing. Now have we accelerated the process, oh lord yes. I do think we need to clean up and reduce emissions, but as for you town, either build a big, beautiful, great wall, or move. The damage is done.
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Post Post #66  (isolation #22)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:37 pm

In post 59, toolenduso wrote:
In post 57, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 33, toolenduso wrote:All the other awful things about Trump aside, I'm living in a city that could basically be swallowed by a river before the end of the century.

So there's no way I can support a person who doesn't want to do anything about it.

I suggest moving because, sorry to burst you false guilt global warming bubble, the climate is always changing. Now have we accelerated the process, oh lord yes. I do think we need to clean up and reduce emissions, but as for you town, either build a big, beautiful, great wall, or move. The damage is done.


You acknowledge that we are causing it, and think that we shouldn't do anything to stop causing it?

Yes, we need to adapt. But we'll have to do a lot less adapting if we can pollute less.

And by the way, not sure what part of Texas you live in, but Galveston is pretty boned too.

You quoted me saying that I think we should do thing to change it. And again we are not causing it we are contributing to it. There is a huge difference.
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Post Post #68  (isolation #23)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:40 pm

In post 65, Glork wrote:Might have to pre-emptively bomb the families of Trump supporters. We'll just change the laws so it's okay.

Once Trump supporers stop identifying themselves and start beheading people and drowning them in mass in cages and bombing people and staining rivers red with blood, go for it.
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Post Post #71  (isolation #24)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:44 pm

In post 69, Glork wrote:A KKK GRAND WIZARD ENDORSED TRUMP AND TRUMP WOULDNT DISAVOW HIM UNTIL CALLED OUT ON IT MULTIPLE TIMES.


THAT IS DOMESTIC TERRORISM BY TRUMP SUPPORTERS.

He had already disavowed them on multiple occasions, why is that always magically forgotten, and the fact that the audio feed went down during that question.
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Post Post #72  (isolation #25)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:45 pm

In post 70, zoraster wrote:Did you just suggest that there's no difference between an ordinary muslim and those in ISIS?

No if anything it would have implied the opposite
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Post Post #75  (isolation #26)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:49 pm

You hit on my big point, we as people need to be good staurts of the earth we can't wait for our government to tell us to. And as I said before I don't agree with Trump 100%
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Post Post #77  (isolation #27)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:54 pm

In post 76, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Hillary is a corrupt, self-entitled and dishonest political hack and the worst candidate of all. Ted Cruz is a crazy right-wing bible thumper who will set back gay rights. Kasich is another establishment idiot who supports TPP and takes money from Soros. Sanders doesn't appeal to minorities like Hillary so he can't win.

Yeah, Trump is the best candidate with a chance of winning.

Leave it to Albert to summarize my thoughts
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Post Post #81  (isolation #28)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:58 pm

In post 78, Glork wrote:
In post 72, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 70, zoraster wrote:Did you just suggest that there's no difference between an ordinary muslim and those in ISIS?

No if anything it would have implied the opposite

No, you're lumping them together. You have implied that because any Muslim *miiiight* be a terrorist, they should be barred from the country.

No I was responding to bombing trump supporters andt their families . We discussed earlier bombing extremests and their families. Unless YOU are implying that all Muslims are extremists.
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Post Post #90  (isolation #29)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:16 pm

It's beyond white guilt that I'm sick of. I'm sick of american guilt and needing to reconcile with the world by decimating our culture.
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Post Post #96  (isolation #30)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:23 pm

In post 94, xRECKONERx wrote:so ABR to be clear you think it's fine that Trump is inciting violence at his rallies or

He's not inciting violence.
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Post Post #106  (isolation #31)  » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:47 pm

Trump is pulling a large amount of the libertarian and independent vote, as well as a fair amount of democrats that don't want a socialist nor do they trust Hillary the witch Clinton.
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Post Post #180  (isolation #32)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:16 am

Reck you seem to care more about the behavior of an individual at a rally than the actual policies. Also, who do you support and why? it's my turn to ask loaded questions filled with ad hom and straw mans, with the occasional red haring to throw you off.
Last edited by drmyshottyizsik on Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #182  (isolation #33)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:25 am

By the way, Trump Winery's Blanc de Blanc is great.
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Post Post #184  (isolation #34)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:50 am

Sure can! I ordered a bottle of Trump Vodka too,750ml for 15.99
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Post Post #187  (isolation #35)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:23 am

I'm a libertarian. I would prefer Ron or Rand Paul, or even Gary Johnson ex governor of new mexico. The reality how ever is that the best viable option that can win is Donald Trump. It semds the same message to the establishment that Sanders would for the democrats. People are pissed off and fed up.
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Post Post #188  (isolation #36)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:23 am

Also is drunk posting still a thread I need to go there.
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Post Post #302  (isolation #37)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:43 pm

In post 206, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 98, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Trump will hire smart people that help him make good decisions for America. MAGA you nimble navigators. Canada will accept any americans that want to hop the fence when Trump is elected.

@ ABR, Shotty:

When Donald Trump says that he's going to make Mexico pay for the wall keeping them out, I don't understand how you can look at him and say "wow, that guy knows his stuff!". Do you really believe that would every work?

Ok I'll respond to this in two parts.
First, Mexico does not want it's people coming here. They are losing all of their workers and tax payers. It is bankrupting Mexico and may be a bigger issue for them than us. There are vacuums left in once peaceful cities taken over by terrorist cartels(very similar to Iraq and Syria). I've been to Mexico many times and over the past 10 years it has taken an unrecognizable turn for the worst. The country is falling apart and they need to stop this flow out of their country just as a trauma patient needs to stop the blood loss. We are the floor and we don't like to be bled on either, now who is going to pay for the blood being stopped the floor or the patient?

Second, Mexico makes a large percent of their money off of American consumers. So if we break NAFTA(which is bullshit anyway) then implement a tax on companies who are importing goods into the US, this would cripple their already paraplegic economy to a point that they couldn't even produce goods. However if they build a wall, which as you remember from my first point helps them keep taxable revenue in their country, that tax goes away. This is a no brainer for the Mexican government.
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Post Post #311  (isolation #38)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:26 pm

In post 304, Rob13 wrote:
In post 246, Rob13 wrote:
In post 215, Albert B. Rampage wrote:immigration is rampant.


Except that it isn't.


In post 246, Rob13 wrote:
In post 215, Albert B. Rampage wrote:immigration is rampant.


Except that it isn't.


In post 246, Rob13 wrote:
In post 215, Albert B. Rampage wrote:immigration is rampant.


Except that it isn't.


In post 246, Rob13 wrote:
In post 215, Albert B. Rampage wrote:immigration is rampant.


Except that it isn't.


In post 246, Rob13 wrote:
In post 215, Albert B. Rampage wrote:immigration is rampant.


Except that it isn't.


In post 246, Rob13 wrote:
In post 215, Albert B. Rampage wrote:immigration is rampant.


Except that it isn't.


In post 246, Rob13 wrote:
In post 215, Albert B. Rampage wrote:immigration is rampant.


Except that it isn't.


In post 246, Rob13 wrote:
In post 215, Albert B. Rampage wrote:immigration is rampant.


Except that it isn't.


In post 246, Rob13 wrote:
In post 215, Albert B. Rampage wrote:immigration is rampant.


Except that it isn't.

The "analysis" you link to only refers to the documented flow of migration. We are talking about illegal and un documented immigrants. A figure that we can not determine due to liberal policies banning ice from counting or reporting the number of undocumented people in the US.
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Post Post #312  (isolation #39)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:32 pm

In post 309, Rob13 wrote:I mean, Pew is as reputable as it gets among think tanks, man. Your random dismissal of any fact that contradicts your world view is frightening.

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Post Post #315  (isolation #40)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:40 pm

Everything you are linking is speculative and you are passing it off as fact.
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Post Post #317  (isolation #41)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:47 pm

In post 239, Davsto wrote:
In post 238, Albert B. Rampage wrote:This is the closest we will ever get to sending a message that the people can't be manipulated by the media.

Really? Because honestly, the only message you'll send to other countries is that a majority of voting Americans are fucking stupid.

Do those other country pay taxes in America or vote in this election? If not why are they relevant? We need to act in our own self interest for the first time since Vietnam.
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Post Post #320  (isolation #42)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:52 pm

In post 319, Rob13 wrote:
In post 317, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 239, Davsto wrote:
In post 238, Albert B. Rampage wrote:This is the closest we will ever get to sending a message that the people can't be manipulated by the media.

Really? Because honestly, the only message you'll send to other countries is that a majority of voting Americans are fucking stupid.

Do those other country pay taxes in America or vote in this election? If not why are they relevant? We need to act in our own self interest for the first time since Vietnam.


...Drmy, are you suggesting that Vietnam was in our self interest?

EDIT: Actually, don't answer this. I don't want to go down this rabbit hole.

No it was the point in which we stopped acting in our own self interest.
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Post Post #321  (isolation #43)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:55 pm

In post 318, Rob13 wrote:Uh, no. Pew Research doesn't publish "speculation". They publish research findings based on large reputable datasets. They literally say in the report how they calculate the flow of immigrants, and I'll quote it here for your reading.

To calculate estimates of how many people left the U.S. for Mexico, this report uses data from the 2014 Mexican National Survey of Demographic Dynamics, or ENADID and the 2010 and 2000 Mexican decennial censuses. Each asked all respondents where they had been living five years prior to the date when the survey or census was taken. The answers to this question provide an estimated count of the number of people who moved from the U.S. to Mexico during the five years prior to the survey date. A separate question targets more recent emigrants—people who left Mexico. It asks whether anyone from the household had left for another country during the previous five years; if so, additional questions are asked about whether and when that person or people came back and their reasons for returning to Mexico.

To calculate estimates of how many Mexicans left Mexico for the U.S., this report also uses U.S. Census Bureau’s American Community Survey (2005-2013) and the Current Population Survey (2000-2014), both adjusted for undercount, which ask immigrants living the U.S. their country of birth and the year of their arrival in the U.S.


Whether you like it or not, there is significant evidence that illegal immigration, on net, is not a problem at the moment. No amount of hand-waving or dismissing academics as liberal puppets is going to change that.

And killthestory, yeah, it kind of is a big deal, given that we have a presidential candidate running on a policy of "Let's build a wall!". Not only is he offensive in his rhetoric surrounding this, he's also just blatantly wrong. Academic research shows a wall would result in more illegal immigrants in the United States, not less, if it prevents people from both entering and exiting illegally.

These are estimated results, that in and of itself is room for speculation. Second, why would anyone answer these things honestly if they are here illegally? They won't even call for an ambulance when someone is shot, we have a billboard campaign in Ft. Worth right now that say "don't be afraid call for help".
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Post Post #322  (isolation #44)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:03 pm

Since you like pew so much, here is a report they did contradicting what you are saying.
http://www.pewhispanic.org/files/reports/44.pdf

Here are some highlights:
Pew wrote:About 80 to 85 percent of the migration from Mexico in recent years has been undocumented.

Pew wrote:As of March 2005, the undocumented population has reached nearly 11 million including more than 6 million Mexicans, assuming the same rate of growth as in recent years.

Pew wrote:Number of Undocumented Mexicans by state California 2,400,000 Texas 1,400,000 Florida 850,000 New York 650,000 Arizona 500,000 Illinois 400,000 New Jersey 350,000 North Carolina 300,000 All Other 3,150,000
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Post Post #325  (isolation #45)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:08 pm

adjusting for under counting widens the room for speculation even more, and now you can add a hint of tampering or guess-work manipulation

p-edit:
read the article it has a figure stating that the net flow of undocumented immigrants between the US and Mexico is 700,00 into the US
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Post Post #327  (isolation #46)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:18 pm

newly arrived is 1.5 million
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Post Post #335  (isolation #47)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:28 pm

Rob it's from a different study, I will link in a minute. For now here
Pew wrote:On average the Mexican population living in the United States has grown by about half a million people a year, 80-85% of which is undocumented
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Post Post #339  (isolation #48)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:31 pm

In post 333, Rob13 wrote:Why wouldn't a wall stop people leaving? If it stops people getting in, by definition, it stops people getting out. Unless the immigrant wants to go through a valid checkpoint and tell the border officers "Oh yeah, been here illegally for a couple years, lol, just taking a trip home, no big!"

That won't go well for them. No-one will do that.

You'll find no argument from me on the TPP; Sanders doesn't support it, and that's who I'm backing.

So explain Bernies 90% tax rate, and how only blacks experience poverty, and his generally socialist out looks on everything.
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Post Post #370  (isolation #49)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:50 pm

Rob - Well, and I will say idealisticly democratic socialism is near perfect but only in a perfect world as deffined by socialists, how do you support a socialist?

P edit
Rob it would be mitchy or paul r if they brokered a convention

P edit again

We loose gun rights, the right to a free and neutral internet
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Post Post #373  (isolation #50)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:51 pm

In post 368, KuroiXHF wrote:
In post 312, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 309, Rob13 wrote:I mean, Pew is as reputable as it gets among think tanks, man. Your random dismissal of any fact that contradicts your world view is frightening.

Image

The missing verb in that picture annoys me more than anything else about it.

There is no missing verb, are is not meant to be there.
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Post Post #379  (isolation #51)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:00 pm

Agree with me or else you. Is a complete sentence. Adding adjectives to the subject, you, is fine.
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Post Post #388  (isolation #52)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:08 pm

Rob do you work for msnbc or cnn? I can't remember.
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Post Post #406  (isolation #53)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:25 pm

In post 392, Psyche wrote:
In post 384, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 380, Psyche wrote:http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35828747

hheehehehe


The writer is close friends with Hillary. This is just more proof of media bias and corruption in DC.

aw poor abr doesn't believe in journalistic integrity

Hasn't existed in a long time, are you ser.... wait you're trolling right?
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Post Post #410  (isolation #54)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:29 pm

Obamacare would cost me and my wife $2200 a month for us and my 2 year old.
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Post Post #411  (isolation #55)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:30 pm

In post 410, drmyshottyizsik wrote:Obamacare would cost me and my wife $2200 a month for us and my 2 year old.

This is with a $10000 deductible. My past insurance was $250 dollars a month with a $400 deductible.
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Post Post #417  (isolation #56)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:36 pm

In post 414, KuroiXHF wrote:
In post 413, Fluminator wrote:Reading this thread, and you've both convinced me America is screwed no matter which one wins. RIP

See. You're learning. The two party system is a failed system.

Correct we need a no party STV system
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Post Post #422  (isolation #57)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:39 pm

In post 416, Rob13 wrote:
In post 410, drmyshottyizsik wrote:Obamacare would cost me and my wife $2200 a month for us and my 2 year old.


How much do you earn?

Well my wife doesn't work, and I'm an IT manager of an SMB.
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Post Post #424  (isolation #58)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:43 pm

also FLAT TAX ANYONE?
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Post Post #431  (isolation #59)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:47 pm

In post 428, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 410, drmyshottyizsik wrote:Obamacare would cost me and my wife $2200 a month for us and my 2 year old.

You must literally be using the website wrong if you got 1 price and it was that much.

I gave some details of my plan
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Post Post #435  (isolation #60)  » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:52 pm

In post 433, Rob13 wrote:If you don't mind me asking, what state are you in drmy? If you PM me a state and ballpark income figure, I can tell you what a Silver Plan should cost and what subsidies you're eligible for, if any.

This is insulting
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Post Post #469  (isolation #61)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:52 am

In post 460, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 410, drmyshottyizsik wrote:Obamacare would cost me and my wife $2200 a month for us and my 2 year old.

No, it wouldn't. And Obamacare isn't a plan, the plans are still offered by private insurance companies, so you can go direct your rage at them. Obamacare is just a subsidy for people who don't make enough to afford insurance

source: I actually worked in the health insurance industry during the transition and know what the fuck I'm talking about

I never said I had the Obamacare plan. I said with Obamacare. Look this all varies wildly by state. I looked into it again last night and yes that price was pre-subsidies. After subsidies it will be 9% of my monthly income per person. So that is 27% of my pay check. Now for easy math let's say I make $4000 a month. That means after subsidies that total $1120 a month(now where does that come from, my taxes maybe), I am still stuck paying $1080 a month for the gold plan with a $4000 individual deductible or a $10000 family deductible, after which I am still liable for 35% of the bills after the 10k. Now compare this to my current unionized insurance I receive that costs $284 a month and has a $400 individual deductible or a $1000 family deductible. I pay 20% from $1000-10000 and nothing after that. Now explain to me how the affordable care act makes insurance anymore affordable for me? Also this doesn't even begin to get into the fact the employers cut hours and employees so that they don't have to provide insurance. Obamacare is not just subsidies, it is also a litany of mandates that have driven premiums up 40% on average and deductibles have nearly doubled.
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Post Post #476  (isolation #62)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:30 pm

In post 472, xRECKONERx wrote:They can be up to around the 1500 range, mine's about 500

Liberals like the NY Times right?
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/un ... octor.html

Lady had a $6000 deductible.

In comparison, the average deductible for a bronze plan on the exchange — the least expensive coverage — was $5,081 for an individual and $10,386 for a family


Silver plans, which were the most popular option this year, had average deductibles of $2,907 for an individual
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Post Post #501  (isolation #63)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:55 pm

In post 478, BROseidon wrote:
In post 470, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 469, drmyshottyizsik wrote:After subsidies it will be 9% of my monthly income per person.

nope

gold plans don't have 4000 personal deductibles, that's ludicrous

all the ACA did was make it so PEOPLE WHO CANNOT AFFORD IT CAN NOW AFFORD IT and INSURANCE COMPANIES CANNOT BLOCK YOU FOR PREEXISTING CONDITIONS


OH MY GOD READING AND CONTEXT ARE SO HARD GUISE AM I SMART NOW???

Fair enough, and it may have been a silver package, and after researching it it had to have been, but still. Also I'm not against single payer. I do think if we just removed the state by state insurance regulations and made it a free market that would work too, but single payer is not out of the question.

Trump isn't totally against single payer either. Maybe he and Bernie can negotiate a deal with the rest of the government. A good deal.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... n-wealthy/
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Post Post #503  (isolation #64)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:59 pm

In post 488, Rob13 wrote:Another obvious example is a union. Every worker benefits from the negotiating power of the union, but if just one worker refused to pay dues, then they could get that benefit for free. So why pay dues if you aren't forced to? This is why many contracts require you to join a union and pay dues nowadays - in the past, unions suffered serious problems with free riders.

How about no unions and if you want the benefits only those who pay for them get them? You know, free market capitalism.
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Post Post #505  (isolation #65)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:00 pm

In post 490, Rob13 wrote:If you think free-riding isn't a problem, then propose to me a solution to my streetlight example. What should everyone pay in order to fairly pay for the streetlight without having any one person free-loading?

Take out the street lights. Then if you want to see buy better headlights.
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Post Post #509  (isolation #66)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:09 pm

In post 506, Rob13 wrote:
In post 503, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 488, Rob13 wrote:Another obvious example is a union. Every worker benefits from the negotiating power of the union, but if just one worker refused to pay dues, then they could get that benefit for free. So why pay dues if you aren't forced to? This is why many contracts require you to join a union and pay dues nowadays - in the past, unions suffered serious problems with free riders.

How about no unions and if you want the benefits only those who pay for them get them? You know, free market capitalism.


Mostly because of this: http://www.sbctc.org/doc.asp?id=4463

Employers have a lot more power than an individual worker. That's why individual workers have to organize into unions.

Human labor if worth roughly 2 dollars an hour. If an employer had no employees that would work for $2 an hours then the employer would be forced to offer more. Just like all other markets human labor and wages are governed by supply and demand. Unions eliminate that and force employers to pay higher wages than needed which throws a huge monkey wrench in the economics of business and shifts the power to the employee in an unbalanced manor. There was a time an a place in which unions were absolutely needed, and we still need the threat of unions to keep employers honest, but the power pendulum has swung to far and it is hurting our economy and the growth of unionized industries. Also America has changed a lot since the 1920's and since The Jungle was written. Our huge national government has put things in place like OSHA and a federal minimum wage. Unions plus a huge and massively regulated national government do not mix. One or the other is tolerable and in same cases needed, but together they ruin our economy.
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Post Post #512  (isolation #67)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:18 pm

In post 507, Rob13 wrote:
In post 505, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 490, Rob13 wrote:If you think free-riding isn't a problem, then propose to me a solution to my streetlight example. What should everyone pay in order to fairly pay for the streetlight without having any one person free-loading?

Take out the street lights. Then if you want to see buy better headlights.


Headlights would cost $50. No-one except the person who valued light at $50 would buy one, and everyone would be much worse off except that person. This is clearly not optimal.

I garentee you that if you removed the street lights, everyone will start to value light at $50. Supply meet demand.
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Post Post #513  (isolation #68)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:20 pm

In post 511, Zachrulez wrote:
In post 509, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 506, Rob13 wrote:
In post 503, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 488, Rob13 wrote:Another obvious example is a union. Every worker benefits from the negotiating power of the union, but if just one worker refused to pay dues, then they could get that benefit for free. So why pay dues if you aren't forced to? This is why many contracts require you to join a union and pay dues nowadays - in the past, unions suffered serious problems with free riders.

How about no unions and if you want the benefits only those who pay for them get them? You know, free market capitalism.


Mostly because of this: http://www.sbctc.org/doc.asp?id=4463

Employers have a lot more power than an individual worker. That's why individual workers have to organize into unions.

Human labor if worth roughly 2 dollars an hour. If an employer had no employees that would work for $2 an hours then the employer would be forced to offer more. Just like all other markets human labor and wages are governed by supply and demand. Unions eliminate that and force employers to pay higher wages than needed which throws a huge monkey wrench in the economics of business and shifts the power to the employee in an unbalanced manor. There was a time an a place in which unions were absolutely needed, and we still need the threat of unions to keep employers honest, but the power pendulum has swung to far and it is hurting our economy and the growth of unionized industries. Also America has changed a lot since the 1920's and since The Jungle was written. Our huge national government has put things in place like OSHA and a federal minimum wage. Unions plus a huge and massively regulated national government do not mix. One or the other is tolerable and in same cases needed, but together they ruin our economy.


Unions are actually at their weakest in terms of power since we established unions way back in the day. You literally don't know what you're talking about.

Depends on how you define strength, and it really depends on the individual union. I know quite a bit about what I'm talking about, you just don't agree and that's fine. However, insults like that will not further your point or make either one of us any more correct or incorrect.
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Post Post #519  (isolation #69)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:45 pm

In post 514, Davsto wrote:
In post 512, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 507, Rob13 wrote:
In post 505, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 490, Rob13 wrote:If you think free-riding isn't a problem, then propose to me a solution to my streetlight example. What should everyone pay in order to fairly pay for the streetlight without having any one person free-loading?

Take out the street lights. Then if you want to see buy better headlights.


Headlights would cost $50. No-one except the person who valued light at $50 would buy one, and everyone would be much worse off except that person. This is clearly not optimal.

I garentee you that if you removed the street lights, everyone will start to value light at $50. Supply meet demand.

Imagine an area.

Lampposts not used by the rich because they don't go outside alone at night.

Used largely for safety of those out that late, the poor maybe walking home from long working hours and homeless, who can't afford to pay for these streetlights due to unfortunate circumstances in their life beyond their control.

This results in a higher crime rate targeted largely towards the poor and homeless due to low light conditions, many of them are dying.

Still unfair to expect anyone else to contribute towards the streetlights?

Well it will decrease the surplus population right?
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Post Post #528  (isolation #70)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:51 pm

In post 523, BROseidon wrote:
In post 516, KuroiXHF wrote:
In post 514, Davsto wrote:This results in a higher crime rate targeted largely towards the poor and homeless due to low light conditions, many of them are dying.

Still unfair to expect anyone else to contribute towards the streetlights?

Do you think rich people want crime? Why would they not contribute toward it?


OH MY GOD YOU'RE A FUCKING MORON.

YES. THEY LITERALLY DO WANT CRIME. BUT ONLY FOR POOR PEOPLE.

You assume that the rich even think twice about it. They don't WANT crime they just don't, typically, care if it happens. Now the Democrat Establishment want crime, it is how they keep their voter base needy and needing them.
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Post Post #529  (isolation #71)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:51 pm

In post 527, BROseidon wrote:It's gonna be funny watching your worldview fall apart once the only way to make money is to own the means of production because all work has been obsoleted. That will be really, really fun.

Isn't the popular idea that once that happens we will all be forced to specialize?
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Post Post #538  (isolation #72)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:01 pm

In post 533, BROseidon wrote:
In post 529, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 527, BROseidon wrote:It's gonna be funny watching your worldview fall apart once the only way to make money is to own the means of production because all work has been obsoleted. That will be really, really fun.

Isn't the popular idea that once that happens we will all be forced to specialize?


We'll keep specializing until eventually machines do literally all work better than people. The buck stops at a certain point.

Until we colonize the galaxy, then the universe, then other dimensions, as long as there is a new frontier we are safe. The buck won't stop for a few thousand years and we won't be here for that anyway.
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Post Post #539  (isolation #73)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:03 pm

In post 537, KuroiXHF wrote:Toolenduso, I think we're at a point where we've understand a lot about each other's opinions. I think it's a point where we inherently and fundamentally disagree with one another.

The only thing I can add to that is that I don't think anyone should tell us or force us how to eat. At the same time, I don't think it's my responsibility to pay for anyone else's healthcare, especially if they eat McDonald's five times a week and have a 7,000 calorie per-day diet.

*But it's not their fault they can only afford McDonald's and that they are so big now that they have to eat that much!


*italics used for sarcasm
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Post Post #543  (isolation #74)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:09 pm

In post 540, KuroiXHF wrote:
In post 539, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 537, KuroiXHF wrote:Toolenduso, I think we're at a point where we've understand a lot about each other's opinions. I think it's a point where we inherently and fundamentally disagree with one another.

The only thing I can add to that is that I don't think anyone should tell us or force us how to eat. At the same time, I don't think it's my responsibility to pay for anyone else's healthcare, especially if they eat McDonald's five times a week and have a 7,000 calorie per-day diet.

*But it's not their fault they can only afford McDonald's and that they are so big now that they have to eat that much!


*italics used for sarcasm

I think they should vote for Vermin Supreme so they can eat their ponies.*

We all need to buy boots
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Post Post #544  (isolation #75)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:10 pm

In post 526, Davsto wrote:
drmyshottyizsik wrote:Well it will decrease the surplus population right?

Okay thanks for being obvious with your trolling

Davsto out!

I'm quoting Dickens
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Post Post #545  (isolation #76)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:16 pm

Also Obama is now trying to amend the former president act to increase the amount of money past presidents get from about 1 million a year to 1.2
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Post Post #548  (isolation #77)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:36 pm

I do find it hilarious that we continue to enact laws that the reverse natural selection, but also complain about a growing population
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Post Post #553  (isolation #78)  » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:55 pm

Truly all a president does is pardon turkeys right?
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Post Post #570  (isolation #79)  » Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:34 pm

In post 559, Rob13 wrote:And drmy, supply = demand doesn't work the way you think it does.

If Apple offers an iPod for $5000, people don't suddenly decide to value iPods at $5,000. That would be insane. They decide not to buy them.

That's the problem in the case of street lights when no single person values the street light enough to purchase it. People will decide not to buy them unless they form a group to buy it, and then you have to try to figure out how you decide which members pay in the group, and how much.

Or people just don't buy head lights, so those same light manufacturers who were making huge profits off the government purchased street lamps will have to lower the price of their head lamps for cars in order to increase the demand and make up for lost revenue. I'm very good at economics, I work with tons of venders and negotiate deals all day long deals ranging from 100,000 to 5,000,000 usd. The problem with all your economic theory is that it is theory and you are failing to understand the way businesses work and manipulate around an ever changing economic field.
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Post Post #573  (isolation #80)  » Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:44 pm

In post 571, BROseidon wrote:lol.

"These academic studies about how things work disagree with my experience in something vaguely related, and therefore you are wrong"

Academia is a fantasy, reality is much to complex.
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Post Post #579  (isolation #81)  » Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:16 pm

In post 576, zoraster wrote:
In post 570, drmyshottyizsik wrote:I'm very good at economics,


This is a very Trumpian quote.

I am I did very well, very well in economics. So well.
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Post Post #582  (isolation #82)  » Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:55 pm

In post 581, Killthestory wrote:
In post 580, Psyche wrote:i won an ipad mini in a high school econ contest aren't i great

i won a catgirl

What's a cargirl.
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Post Post #584  (isolation #83)  » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:02 pm

I think we need less government regulation. Obviously we need street lights. I'm more arguing the concept than the example.
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Post Post #586  (isolation #84)  » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:13 pm

I agree but they shouldn't be national concerns. That all should be states rights.
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Post Post #587  (isolation #85)  » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:13 pm

I don't want no government just a tiny national one
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Post Post #589  (isolation #86)  » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:18 pm

In post 588, zoraster wrote:Why?

Different parts of our country feel differently on so many things. The larger and more regulated the nation government is the more people get pissed off and frustrated. Let county and states regulate their people and keep representation local.
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Post Post #592  (isolation #87)  » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:26 pm

In post 590, zoraster wrote:What about states that have stopped their local governments from putting in "liberal" regulations?

I'd need.more specifics, but I believe that if the state nor the country has a law in place about something and the local government tries to enact a polocy but the state says no that that is wrong regardless of partisanship.
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Post Post #601  (isolation #88)  » Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:55 pm

In post 600, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 598, BROseidon wrote:It clearly can't listen to things like logic and scientific studies.

Yeah. I'm done too. There is a clear pattern of ignoring arguments in order to score cheap points.

Plus I just don't believe half of what shotty says his life experiences are. Sorry.

Lol that's fine. Believe me your approval or affirmation were not being asked for.
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Post Post #609  (isolation #89)  » Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:31 pm

See robs a comy
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Post Post #611  (isolation #90)  » Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Oh shit,,, you're an ad.
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Post Post #651  (isolation #91)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:05 pm

Imagehere in Texas we've had some bad idras ur selves.
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Post Post #653  (isolation #92)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:13 pm

In post 652, Zulfy wrote:The Democratic party doesn't have socialistic roots, unlike the majority of left-wing parties in the world.
Otherwise yea it'd be the other way around.

No but we're getting there.
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Post Post #657  (isolation #93)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:16 pm

Psyche how old are you? Do you have children? Do you work and for how long?
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Post Post #660  (isolation #94)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:27 pm

So 17?
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Post Post #665  (isolation #95)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:43 pm

In post 664, Majiffy wrote:
In post 657, drmyshottyizsik wrote:Psyche how old are you? Do you have children? Do you work and for how long?

"All people that support liberalism are young, unemployed atheist hippies"
"You must be working solely to support your family that you foolishly had at an early age to have an informed perspective on politics"

Etc.

How about I was just curious?
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Post Post #667  (isolation #96)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:47 pm

I'm only 22. I have a 2 year old and a pregnant wife, but that doesn't mean I am a fool, or that I believe you have to have children to have a justified opinion.
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Post Post #671  (isolation #97)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:53 pm

In post 668, Majiffy wrote:Then why ask the question in the first place?

It has no place in a political discussion.

No it does, there is a truth to all stereotypes, with out asking questions like these we won't ever know how true they are.
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Post Post #673  (isolation #98)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:59 pm

In post 672, Majiffy wrote:
In post 671, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 668, Majiffy wrote:Then why ask the question in the first place?

It has no place in a political discussion.

No it does, there is a truth to all stereotypes, with out asking questions like these we won't ever know how true they are.

Please tell me how rearing a child better informs you on the impact of privatized prison systems.
And do go on about how having a full-time job offers great clarity onto our foreign relations in the Middle East.

Who said it did?
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Post Post #675  (isolation #99)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:04 pm

In post 674, Majiffy wrote:
In post 673, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 672, Majiffy wrote:
In post 671, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 668, Majiffy wrote:Then why ask the question in the first place?

It has no place in a political discussion.

No it does, there is a truth to all stereotypes, with out asking questions like these we won't ever know how true they are.

Please tell me how rearing a child better informs you on the impact of privatized prison systems.
And do go on about how having a full-time job offers great clarity onto our foreign relations in the Middle East.

Who said it did?

You did.

You cannot narrowly cherry-pick your arguments when it favors your point.

Someone's employment status and whether or not they are married, have children, etc. does not hold a valid impact to include it in a discourse of politics.

But if you want to go down the road of "stereotypes are kinda true!" we can get into the ugliness of a statement like that.

I suggest you back off it.

Ummm go for it?

Also what you quote in no way validates what you said. I said I was interested in the sociology aspect of his political view and you are asking how kid affect someone's knowledge of the middle east. You aren't making sense.
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Post Post #677  (isolation #100)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:09 pm

In post 676, Majiffy wrote:
In post 671, drmyshottyizsik wrote:No it does, there is a truth to all stereotypes, with out asking questions like these we won't ever know how true they are.

Image

Please tell me the truth to the above stereotypes and how truthful you perceive them to be.

Well in my experience neither are true. They don't take that many jobs, they do a fair amount of work most citizens wouldn't want to. Also they aren't to lazy to work. A sect of them are, but mainly just the gangster crowd. Most Mexicans I know are extremely hard workers. I just want everyone to pay taxes.
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Post Post #680  (isolation #101)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:21 pm

In post 678, Majiffy wrote:I thought there was truth to every stereotype

A degree of, and the degree is very important. Typically if there is very little truth it is a hate filled stereotype and something we she probably be concerned about on a sociologic level, however when the stereotype has a decent amount of truth behind, for instance African Americans having a lot of abortions(abortion rate is 50% amongst them), then it becomes something we need to start being concerned about on a political level.
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Post Post #683  (isolation #102)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:29 pm

In post 682, Majiffy wrote:Instead of considering truth to every stereotype, consider that people are people and some people are similar for sociological reasons that you posit.

This does not mean it is a healthy way to approach people by stereotyping, as you cannot be certain which sociological elements are at play in any given stranger.

And furthermore, even if you could be certain about sociological elements, that does not mean that they form similar opinions or behaviors equally across every individual.

The only thing a stereotype is, is an uninformed assumption. You do yourself no justice by relying on them or referring to them.

See and that is the biggest problem with a large central government. With out representation on a local as logical basis all politics are left to shaping platforms around stereotypes.
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Post Post #685  (isolation #103)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:43 pm

In post 684, Majiffy wrote:Do you believe that marriage should only be between a man and a woman?

Not at all, in fact to a degree I think homosexuality is just part of nature itself.
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Post Post #689  (isolation #104)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:31 pm

In post 687, Majiffy wrote:
In post 685, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 684, Majiffy wrote:Do you believe that marriage should only be between a man and a woman?

Not at all, in fact to a degree I think homosexuality is just part of nature itself.

Do you agree with Trump that we should deport all the undocumented workers?

I think we need an easier path to citizenship for those here, but we need to be strict about who we let in. If you are unskilled then you are not of much help to our current economy.
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Post Post #692  (isolation #105)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:02 pm

In post 691, Majiffy wrote:
In post 689, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 687, Majiffy wrote:
In post 685, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 684, Majiffy wrote:Do you believe that marriage should only be between a man and a woman?

Not at all, in fact to a degree I think homosexuality is just part of nature itself.

Do you agree with Trump that we should deport all the undocumented workers?

I think we need an easier path to citizenship for those here, but we need to be strict about who we let in. If you are unskilled then you are not of much help to our current economy.

Please answer the question. What about undocumented workers already in our borders?

Let me be clear, I in no way want to see the destruction of families, however blanket amnesty is a tricky situation. You would have a flood of criminals fleeing Mexico to come here and nothing is more important than our national security and the peace of mind in our local communities.

I would propose that we do something like give amnesty to anyone who can prove they have been here over 3 years, and than not allow them access to things like social security and welfare for a period of 5 or 10 years.
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Post Post #695  (isolation #106)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 pm

In post 693, Majiffy wrote:How do you intend to document and verify these workers within the scope of small federal government spending?

We raise the spending for it in the hopes that we will make it back it gained tax revenue.
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Post Post #698  (isolation #107)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:36 pm

In post 697, Zulfy wrote:
In post 677, drmyshottyizsik wrote:just want everyone to pay taxes.


Oh do I have news for you.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/04/1 ... 118B-Taxes

That's like the fourth time I've shared that link too

Great they pay an average of 1100 dollars in tax each. I paid that on my bonus.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/illegal- ... d=10699317

They cost us on overage 10,000 dollars each, so net each illegal alien costs tax payers 9,000 a piece.
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Post Post #699  (isolation #108)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:38 pm

In post 696, Majiffy wrote:Keynesian

What's wrong with Keynesian economics
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Post Post #706  (isolation #109)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:24 pm

In post 700, Majiffy wrote:It's the opposite of typical conservative economic structures.

I'm not a conservative. I believe that in a lot of ways we should shoot to act conservatively at least in a fiscal manor. However, when it comes to things like rights and basic human liberties I tend to be a lot more liberal. I do believe in social welfare, I just think we have made it too easy and bountiful. I struggle a lot with the logical fiscal side and my sympathetic and loving liberal half, but I truly believe that our country is in a state in which we need to focus on the fiscal aspects of our country. This is why I support Trump, but don't mistake, I would have to think long and hard between a Sanders and Cruz race.
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Post Post #707  (isolation #110)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:28 pm

In post 703, zoraster wrote:I feel like shotty has pulled one on us. Gone full trump supporter and then came back to at least sounding fairly reasonable.

I started the thread off by making sure it was known I'm not a full Trump supporter. I do no agree with everything he wants, but he is the best man for the country, I believe.
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Post Post #713  (isolation #111)  » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:53 pm

In post 708, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 707, drmyshottyizsik wrote:but he is the best man for the country, I believe.

So the lack of any previous political experience doesn't faze you?

I never said that, you are putting words in my mouth. All of the candidates suck for one reason or another, but to be honest his lack of political experience doesn't hit the top 5 of the things that scare me about Trump.
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Post Post #730  (isolation #112)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:42 am

In post 729, Majiffy wrote:
In post 722, Kublai Khan wrote:You can't run a government like a business. It's just not possible.

Especially since he's not even especially adept at running businesses.

Oh really? He is valued at between 6 and 10 billion dollars, and he isn't a good business man? The company he took over from his father was failing.
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Post Post #736  (isolation #113)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:46 am

In post 734, T-Bone wrote:Donald is the guy who will take $1.00, invest it, and come back in six weeks with $1.02 and call it a success though. It's easy to make a lot of money when you have a lot of money though. I don't know that he isn't taking his 1 billion and turning into 1.02 billion though.

no he took 1 million and turned it into 10 billion
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Post Post #737  (isolation #114)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:51 am

In post 733, BROseidon wrote:
In post 730, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 729, Majiffy wrote:
In post 722, Kublai Khan wrote:You can't run a government like a business. It's just not possible.

Especially since he's not even especially adept at running businesses.

Oh really? He is valued at between 6 and 10 billion dollars, and he isn't a good business man? The company he took over from his father was failing.


He would have had a higher income shoving all his money in the s&p500, by most estimates. It's hard to pin down because we don't know exactly how much he started with, and his current net worth changes based on how he feels on a day-to-day basis.

Still, though, as a venture guy, he underperformed the largest companies in the US on returns. That's what we call "bad"

In post 732, Untrod Tripod wrote:
In post 710, Killthestory wrote:
In post 708, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 707, drmyshottyizsik wrote:but he is the best man for the country, I believe.

So the lack of any previous political experience doesn't faze you?

And Hillary's who's literally nicknamed "The Evil Clit" doesn't faze you? I mean, it's pretty said when all the presidential candidates who have political experience are doing about equal to Trump.

How fitting that the type of people who are opposed to Hillary would use images of female genitalia to try to summon revulsion in others

So now you're the person stereotyping. I don't like Hilary one bit, and I'm still embarrassed to see people making jokes like this. There are so many reasons other than her gender to dislike Secretary Clinton, wait I just realized is it sexist to call her a secretary? Shouldn't we call her office manager of state or receptionist of state?
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Post Post #740  (isolation #115)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:05 am

In post 739, zoraster wrote:He got significantly more than 1 million. He inherited 200m from his father.

Anyway, there's significant disagreement on how much he's worth:

Image

Image

His father was living when he started his company and he received a 1 million dollar loan in which he paid back with interest.
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Post Post #744  (isolation #116)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:57 am

In post 742, BROseidon wrote:
In post 740, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 739, zoraster wrote:He got significantly more than 1 million. He inherited 200m from his father.

Anyway, there's significant disagreement on how much he's worth:

Image

Image

His father was living when he started his company and he received a 1 million dollar loan in which he paid back with interest.


"I think the Economist is wrong"

This simply assumes he received a 200 million inheritance. It is reported that it may have been as low as 40 million, if you re graph that at a start of 40 million he would only be worth 3 billion vs the s&p 500, which would mean regardless of speculation, he has way out preformed. Guess we won't know until he releases his tax records.
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Post Post #749  (isolation #117)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:32 pm

Hillary values a 30 minute speech at a quarter of a million dollars. That's not narcissistic? Well, it may just be collusion but still.
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Post Post #752  (isolation #118)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:40 pm

In post 750, zoraster wrote:
In post 749, drmyshottyizsik wrote:Hillary values a 30 minute speech at a quarter of a million dollars. That's not narcissistic? Well, it may just be collusion but still.


People paid her that much, so no. Not narcissistic. If trump can actually milk his name for 4B then that's not narcissistic either, but it's hard to see how it'd be worth that much to him.

If someone offered me 250k for a speech, it says nothing about how much I think of myself to accept that offer.

Fair enough, I'm not saying the name Trump is worth 4 billion, but I help doctors sell their practices and a lot of what they try and sell thw buyer on if always how valuable the practices reputation and name are worth they may hae 100k in equipment and 300k in pand and building but they get 2 million for the practice due to the name and patient base.
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Post Post #754  (isolation #119)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:53 pm

In post 753, zoraster wrote:Reputation, name brands, good will are all things with legitimate value. Trumps name, perhaps until this election — or perhaps even more after this — definitely has a monetary value of something.

Book of clients is a bit different than just brand though.

True but it's the closest thing I have experience with, and the concept is similar.
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Post Post #761  (isolation #120)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:31 pm

In post 760, Rob13 wrote:Implying that anyone will want to touch the Trump name after this election is done.

He must have made a business decision to enter this election at some point, and he certainly knows more about business than I do, so I guess he thinks it will help him? I can't see how, though, with some of the things he's saying.

What if, am I'm not saying I believe this 100% myself but, what if Trump isn't doing this for business purposes, he already stated he wouldn't run the company during his administration. What if Trump actually does want to make America great again.
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Post Post #766  (isolation #121)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:44 pm

In post 762, Not_Mafia wrote:When did America stop being great?

In my opinion around 1933. However it has been fairly up and down until the 60s, which I think some real progress was made.in the 60s but it did have a price, and staid meh until the late 70s then turned up for the first half of the 80s but went fairly bleh again around bush sr. and hasn't really gotten much better. We have simultaneously cut our military and also engaged in more and more over seas war and police presences, most of which for corrupt and personal reasons. We have made ourselves slaves to big oil through both the destruction of the middle east, a lot of which we cause, and through our own regulations on drilling in the us. We have made ourselves slaves to big pharm with a growning lack of responsibility and accountability and also the corrupt cash flow coming from over prescripting and a healthcare system that work when it was in a bubble but since hasn't worked, doesn't work, and if we don't either completely deregulate, and eliminate state line or go single payer l, won't work. We have a huge amount of undocumented workers, net annually or not there are a lot here and we need an easier way to citizenship but one with the future in mind, both imidiate and long term. America hasn't been great in a long time due to weak liberal policy and corrupt cronyism with in the republicans alike. It's time for a non partisan government. One that work of for and by the people.
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Post Post #782  (isolation #122)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:00 pm

In post 778, xRECKONERx wrote:i swear to fucking god shotty if you push me so far that i am DEFENDING SHILLARY "GOLDMAN SACHS" CLINTON i will hunt you down


I'm waiting ;)
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Post Post #783  (isolation #123)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:03 pm

In post 775, Davsto wrote:
In post 766, drmyshottyizsik wrote:In my opinion around 1933.

Ahh, so you thought the last "great" year of America was several years into the Great Depression, also a year where a particularly large number of black lynchings were held?

Figures.

Why do you have to make it a race thing?

Also let's be clear WW2 is what truly got of out of the great depression, the new deal was just a bubble, it would have popped.
http://www.cato.org/publications/commen ... oor-people
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Post Post #788  (isolation #124)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:45 pm

In post 784, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 783, drmyshottyizsik wrote:Also let's be clear WW2 is what truly got of out of the great depression, the new deal was just a bubble, it would have popped.
http://www.cato.org/publications/commen ... oor-people

Ah, the Cato Institute. A libertarian think tank founded by one of the Koch Brothers. Well, they certainly have an impartial opinion that isn't at affected by their agenda.

I mean, their job is to literally sit around and to to produce believable bullshit about government is bad. Good thing shotty is too smart for them and is currently out seeking more believable sources. Maybe call in to a right-wing talk show so that they talk about the right thing for you to repeat.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/busin ... .html?_r=0
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/3800
http://money.usnews.com/money/business- ... ork?page=2

There have a read. It is no new idea that the new deal did more harm than good.
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Post Post #791  (isolation #125)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:29 pm

In post 790, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 788, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 784, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 783, drmyshottyizsik wrote:Also let's be clear WW2 is what truly got of out of the great depression, the new deal was just a bubble, it would have popped.
http://www.cato.org/publications/commen ... oor-people

Ah, the Cato Institute. A libertarian think tank founded by one of the Koch Brothers. Well, they certainly have an impartial opinion that isn't at affected by their agenda.

I mean, their job is to literally sit around and to to produce believable bullshit about government is bad. Good thing shotty is too smart for them and is currently out seeking more believable sources. Maybe call in to a right-wing talk show so that they talk about the right thing for you to repeat.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/busin ... .html?_r=0
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/3800
http://money.usnews.com/money/business- ... ork?page=2

There have a read. It is no new idea that the new deal did more harm than good.

#1 is an opinion piece.
#2 was written by a senior fellow of... the Cato institute.
#3 is an actual article. And... Well, let's quote #3.
Just how rapid that trend was, though, depends on whom you ask. Except for a downturn in 1938 (historians still debate its origin), the economy and unemployment did improve after the onset of the New Deal. The country's real gross domestic product fell from $865 billion in 1929 to $635 billion in 1933 but rebounded to $1 trillion by 1940.

Compare to shotty's analysis:
In post 783, drmyshottyizsik wrote:Also let's be clear WW2 is what truly got of out of the great depression, the new deal was just a bubble, it would have popped.


So according to Shotty, WW2 happened and ended before 1940. Time to adjust the history books.

Wow you are terrible. WW2 started in 1939. We made the majority of the money that help us rebound off of the first two years of the war, before US involvement. So as far as our economic gain and getting out of the great depression yes most of THAT did happen and end before 1940 ended.
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Post Post #792  (isolation #126)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:32 pm

We profited by providing a material solution to other nations, rather than trying to fix the worlds problems and giving our resources away.
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Post Post #794  (isolation #127)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:47 pm

In post 793, Psyche wrote:ever heard of the marshall plan shotty

Yes and I have mixed feelings. Morally we needed to do it, but in the wake of world war 2 could we afford it by the end of the war? Not really. It was a political move. It was an attempt to make new allies and make them little Americas and make sure they weren't going to become part of the USSR. The aid we gave was not at all as useful as Americans like to feel proud about though. Look at Berlin just as an example. Also we were in a position where America was the a huge world exporter and we needed other countries to recover in order to buy our goods.
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Post Post #796  (isolation #128)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:15 pm

In post 795, Korts wrote:https://www.facebook.com/ElizabethWarren/posts/10153621490203687

Oh trump capitalized on laws legally oh no I'm pissy oh no. Also ad hom much?
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Post Post #800  (isolation #129)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:21 pm

In post 797, Korts wrote:Shotty, Trump is a spoiled brat all grown up and ready to break everyone's favorite toys just because he can. I am truly terrified for the future of your country if you are stupid enough to give it to him. That is all I will say to you in this thread.

In post 762, Not_Mafia wrote:When did America stop being great?


I only hatewatched Newsroom, but you have to admit this is a strong scene.


Your description fits the gop much better
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Post Post #808  (isolation #130)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:19 pm

In post 808, Rob13 wrote:This thread wrapped up officially when drmy asked why slavery had to be a race thing.

What? That was never said.
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Post Post #811  (isolation #131)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:21 pm

No
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Post Post #814  (isolation #132)  » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:28 pm

In post 783, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 775, Davsto wrote:
In post 766, drmyshottyizsik wrote:In my opinion around 1933.

Ahh, so you thought the last "great" year of America was several years into the Great Depression, also a year where a particularly large number of black lynchings were held?

Figures.

Why do you have to make it a race thing?

Also let's be clear WW2 is what truly got of out of the great depression, the new deal was just a bubble, it would have popped.
http://www.cato.org/publications/commen ... oor-people
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Post Post #832  (isolation #133)  » Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:45 am

In post 820, OhGodMyLife wrote:What really frightens me about Donald Trump is how many Bernie supporters I know who keep saying he's their second choice.

Bernie is my second choice.
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Post Post #835  (isolation #134)  » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:01 pm

I'd love to have a nafta argument
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Post Post #844  (isolation #135)  » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:07 pm

Guys Rob Ford died :(
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Post Post #845  (isolation #136)  » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:07 pm

Guys Rob Ford died :(
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Post Post #851  (isolation #137)  » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:33 pm

What about bernie saying women fantasize of being raped?
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Post Post #853  (isolation #138)  » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:46 pm

That is why I shouldn't Scum and drive.
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Post Post #855  (isolation #139)  » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:48 pm

In post 855, zoraster wrote:Yes. That's why.

Those where both almost sentences.
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Post Post #858  (isolation #140)  » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:04 pm

In post 858, xRECKONERx wrote:57% doesn't include overcoming the superdelegate deficit, as the line goes that superdels will fall in line with the voters

You under estimate the corruption of the establishment.
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Post Post #860  (isolation #141)  » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:10 pm

In post 860, xRECKONERx wrote:we're talking about math, not your conspiracy theories

Bernie will not get the superdelegates until Hillary is determined to not be able to win the primary at all.
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Post Post #861  (isolation #142)  » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:11 pm

The democrats don't want an independent taking over their party any more than the republicans.
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Post Post #863  (isolation #143)  » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:45 pm

In post 863, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 861, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 860, xRECKONERx wrote:we're talking about math, not your conspiracy theories

Bernie will not get the superdelegates until Hillary is determined to not be able to win the primary at all.

historically, superdelegates vote where the popular vote went. so if bernie can claim +50% of the pledged delegates, the superdelegates SHOULD fall in line -- unless they want to risk all out war like the republicans

I hope so, but I also hoped the republicans would back their popular candidate as well. I understand the constitution says nothing about parties having to respect popular vote in primaries but it just seems right. I hope it doesn't come to this but I can see a situation where trump gets the delegates but the republicans choose someone else anyway, and Bernie gets the popular vote and the elected deligates, but the superdelegates throw the nomination. I also could see that turning into a 4 man general election.
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Post Post #865  (isolation #144)  » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:54 pm

In post 865, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 864, drmyshottyizsik wrote:I hope so, but I also hoped the republicans would back their popular candidate as well. I understand the constitution says nothing about parties having to respect popular vote in primaries but it just seems right. I hope it doesn't come to this but I can see a situation where trump gets the delegates but the republicans choose someone else anyway, and Bernie gets the popular vote and the elected deligates, but the superdelegates throw the nomination. I also could see that turning into a 4 man general election.

There's a difference, because Trump would only lose the nomination in a situation where he didn't get the majority to wrap it up -- and that's how the convention works. In a two person race, there's not much of a way for Bernie/Hillary to run into the same issue.

If he gets the majority they can still contest and hand pick a nominee. A member of the rnc already came.of and said that contrary to poular belief and due to media lies the public has been falsely been told that the public chooses the nominee, however that isn't true the party chooses the nominee. The rnc.doesn't have to honor the deligates, they reserve the riggt to change the rules up until mid night of the day of the convention. - paraphrasing

I believe they are thinking about runing Paul Ryan with Kasick.
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Post Post #878  (isolation #145)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:08 am

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Post Post #881  (isolation #146)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:26 am

In post 881, BROseidon wrote:There isn't a DOJ indictment coming.

You're better off hoping that she literally dies.

I know, but it's fun to hope. Isn't that what Sanders supports are all about? Ignoring reality, and dreaming of a perfect world we don't live in. Ms. Lynch already said despite the FBI's recommendation that they will not indict Hilary Clinton.
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Post Post #883  (isolation #147)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:48 am

In post 883, Not_Mafia wrote:Yes the Sanders delusions of making Mexico pay for a wall and deportation forces ejecting people's families

If we threaten to leave nafta a wall will go up. Plus Mexico already built one for Guatemala
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Post Post #886  (isolation #148)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:09 am

In post 885, BROseidon wrote:
In post 884, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 883, Not_Mafia wrote:Yes the Sanders delusions of making Mexico pay for a wall and deportation forces ejecting people's families

If we threaten to leave nafta a wall will go up. Plus Mexico already built one for Guatemala


lol.

You're delusional.

How so, either Mexico builds a wall or we tax their goods and mexico will then pay for it.
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Post Post #889  (isolation #149)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:16 am

In post 889, BROseidon wrote:Like you're so far off the rails that I can't actually justify putting together a cogent response.

Or you can't argue with simple math and logic.
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Post Post #894  (isolation #150)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:50 am

In post 893, Cephrir wrote:
In post 887, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 885, BROseidon wrote:
In post 884, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 883, Not_Mafia wrote:Yes the Sanders delusions of making Mexico pay for a wall and deportation forces ejecting people's families

If we threaten to leave nafta a wall will go up. Plus Mexico already built one for Guatemala


lol.

You're delusional.

How so, either Mexico builds a wall or we tax their goods and mexico will then pay for it.

the mexican government doesn't own mexican businesses. there is not just one entity down there called mexico that produces goods, buys goods, forces its people to illegally immigrate to the US, runs the government, shoots mayors of mexico city and does whatever else mexico does

also they've told this idea repeatedly to go fuck itself and i believe them wholeheartedly

I said Mexico, not the Mexican government. Mexico has more than just a government. It also has people and corporations. Also, I believe you are talking about what a PAST president of Mexico said.
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Post Post #895  (isolation #151)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:53 am

In post 894, BROseidon wrote:Vicente Fox literally just started laughing when asked about it.

Yes because I care a lot about a washed up and corrupt Mexican politician. HIS opinion is most definitely what we should base American policies on! The man who built him self a luxury ranch off of the scraps of a crumbling country he was supposed to be ruling and representing.
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Post Post #897  (isolation #152)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:05 am

In post 897, BROseidon wrote:
In post 896, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 894, BROseidon wrote:Vicente Fox literally just started laughing when asked about it.

Yes because I care a lot about a washed up and corrupt Mexican politician. HIS opinion is most definitely what we should base American policies on! The man who built him self a luxury ranch off of the scraps of a crumbling country he was supposed to be ruling and representing.


Oh my god I can't.

Mexican politician opinions matter when you're trying to literally force them to do something.

HE ISN'T THE PRESIDENT ANYMORE! He gave up his political career in the wake of a corruption probe! Why don't we consult the Castro brothers on our embargoes on them, oh and what if we gave Iran a say on whether they can build nukes or not. I wonder if the prisoners in Guantanamo bay would like a say in whether they stay imprisoned or not. That is not how this works. That is how America becomes weak and dies.
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Post Post #901  (isolation #153)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:21 am

@Zor I never said he stepped down prior to the end of his term. He has since just gotten away from politics and more into business.
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Post Post #903  (isolation #154)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:27 am

In post 899, itlepip wrote:Yes because the United States can definitely infringe on Mexico's sovereignty and force their citizens and corporation to pay for things :roll:
In post 896, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 894, BROseidon wrote:Vicente Fox literally just started laughing when asked about it.

Yes because I care a lot about a washed up and corrupt Mexican politician. HIS opinion is most definitely what we should base American policies on! The man who built him self a luxury ranch off of the scraps of a crumbling country he was supposed to be ruling and representing.

Yes compare that to the all of the extremely reliable and respectable people that have said this is a great idea :roll: :roll:

First off you are either stupid or being difficult no matter what. You obviously have no idea on how macro economics works or how import/export taxes work. We aren't infringing on anyone's sovereignty. We would implement a tariff that would pay for the wall on all goods imported from Mexico. This is really simple math guys. Also, you second point is a red haring. We aren't talking about other people, you and other are saying the due do the words of a corrupt politician in another country should determine the laws a policies implemented in ours. Your off the cuff and passive slams of Trump do not make him any less corrupt or any less non credible.

P-Edit
Zor I agree, and that's sad. We have lost our states men.
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Post Post #907  (isolation #155)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:37 am

In post 907, zoraster wrote:We never really had "our statesmen" if by that you mean someone who is President and then runs for another office. Andrew Johnson isn't exactly a great example of someone we want our politicians to emulate.

Andrew Jackson is a wholeeeeeee other thread. I think he had no good options. However by statesmen I mean someone with the interest of those they represent at heart. The last one I can think of was Jim Wright (Look at me complimenting a Democrat).
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Post Post #908  (isolation #156)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:38 am

In post 905, Kublai Khan wrote:I'm feeling like Shotty has me on ignore.

I'm at work I can't listen to the video, if you spell them out for me I can rebut.
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Post Post #910  (isolation #157)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:45 am

In post 910, zoraster wrote:
In post 908, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 907, zoraster wrote:We never really had "our statesmen" if by that you mean someone who is President and then runs for another office. Andrew Johnson isn't exactly a great example of someone we want our politicians to emulate.

Andrew Jackson is a wholeeeeeee other thread. I think he had no good options. However by statesmen I mean someone with the interest of those they represent at heart. The last one I can think of was Jim Wright (Look at me complimenting a Democrat).


Didn't you just criticize Fox for stepping out of politics in scandal? Wright literally resigned because of an ethics probe.

I just about fell out of my chair. I'm so glad you saw what I was doing there. I just gained a lot of respect for you Zor.
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Post Post #912  (isolation #158)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:53 am

In post 912, zoraster wrote:Stop posting in your car or pretending you are. The next time you do it, I'll ban you for the sake of others on the road.

That was supposed to say chair.
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Post Post #913  (isolation #159)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:54 am

I'm at work right now. I only scum at red lights anyway.
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Post Post #917  (isolation #160)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:13 am

In post 915, itlepip wrote:The math also just doesn't work if you use tariffs. We get 30 billion dollars in custom duties, where about 70% of our imports aren't under NAFTA. If you just put Mexico on the normal tariffs we would only get estimated pretty optimistically 4.4 billion out of a required 10-12. Therefore you would probably need at least 2-3x the normal tariff amount to pay for the wall. This by all measures creates a substantial barrier for Mexico to legally export goods to the United States, meaning that a). we would get substantially less revenue from tariffs forcing us to raise them, b). The most substancial is that we lost a fair portion of 14% of the imports to this country which destroys the economy, and c). Mexico would probably also establish tariffs after NAFTA is broken which decreases the 236 billion dollars in exports to Mexico which further kills our economy. Like if Mexico puts a .5% tariff on all goods entering the country we just lost any gain for 'getting Mexico to pay for the wall' . Like even if the wall was the greatest idea ever (it super isn't), tariffs should never be used in the current day to fund the government

Basically the cost of the effects of the tariff to our economy would cost us, already with a huge GDP gap, to probably go into another recession and cost the government much more than the wall costs because guess what, tariffs are not a significant source of income for the government.

There are HUGE! problems with this. a). Or it would aid in companies wanting to make products in the US. b). while we may export 14% to mexico. Mexico exported 80% of their goods to the US. c). again their is a 55 billion dollar deficit in trade. If we both implement equal taxes we still come out ahead. Big Business is going to do what ever is better for their bottom line. If there are no taxes to import goods from america, but it is cheaper, due to regulations, standards, and minimum wage laws, to make the product there, then they will make the product there.
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Post Post #918  (isolation #161)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:14 am

America is loosing jobs to Mexico, and while big business prospers, places like Detroit crumble.
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Post Post #921  (isolation #162)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:27 am

In post 920, itlepip wrote:
In post 918, drmyshottyizsik wrote:There are HUGE! problems with this. a). Or it would aid in companies wanting to make products in the US. b). while we may export 14% to mexico. Mexico exported 80% of their goods to the US. c). again their is a 55 billion dollar deficit in trade. If we both implement equal taxes we still come out ahead. Big Business is going to do what ever is better for their bottom line. If there are no taxes to import goods from america, but it is cheaper, due to regulations, standards, and minimum wage laws, to make the product there, then they will make the product there.

a). We can never go back to a nonservice based economy. Companies based in Mexico are much more likely to move to Taiwan or India than to go back the United States. Its not like if Mexico stopped making shirts our textile industry would suddenly kick off again. Most of the things produced in Mexico are never going to be produced here. Second the service based economy which we currently have only gets hurt by tariffs.
b). Yes because if their economy is hurt more we are okay. Economies aren't 0 sum at all.
c). No because Mexico doesn't just keep trading the same amount after we put tariffs up. It would still be cheaper to make the product a half dozen other places than the US.

a). Can't or won't? And so you are saying no tariffs at all on any imports? You are crazy!
b). They don't cause each other, but both can be true separately. In fact if we just cut off all trade with Mexico entirely, imports and exports, we would have 55 billion dollars extra each year,
c). At least if they go else where they will be taxed. We need to make it easier for companies to bring their money back to the US, and more expensive for them to do business over seas.
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Post Post #923  (isolation #163)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:00 pm

In post 905, Kublai Khan wrote:I'm feeling like Shotty has me on ignore.

Ya the estimate I read said about 17 billion dollars to build. I have no real retort for your points. They are solid points. This is why I believe this all hinges on the threat of leaving nafta.
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Post Post #925  (isolation #164)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:12 pm

It's just math. Of course it goes much deeper than that but I'm making a point.
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Post Post #927  (isolation #165)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:37 pm

In post 927, itlepip wrote:
In post 926, drmyshottyizsik wrote:It's just math. Of course it goes much deeper than that but I'm making a point.

Okay, if we lived in a world where the best way of dealing with a trade deficit is just to cut off trade, you have a point, but we don't, so yeah when you simplify things to absurdity maybe voting for Trump is the right policy.

In philosophy you are taught to start arguments at extremes do exploit the point.
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Post Post #929  (isolation #166)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:46 pm

In post 929, itlepip wrote:
In post 928, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 927, itlepip wrote:
In post 926, drmyshottyizsik wrote:It's just math. Of course it goes much deeper than that but I'm making a point.

Okay, if we lived in a world where the best way of dealing with a trade deficit is just to cut off trade, you have a point, but we don't, so yeah when you simplify things to absurdity maybe voting for Trump is the right policy.

In philosophy you are taught to start arguments at extremes do exploit the point.


Okay, did you know that Trump has publicly not disavowed supported made VP aKKK leadera neonazi Adolf Hilter's corpse. How is that sort of thing useful in a debate at all?

It's not, that was non sense.
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Post Post #931  (isolation #167)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:01 pm

You're an idiot. I bet you believe in communism as the one form of government that lifts us all up too huh?
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Post Post #933  (isolation #168)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:39 pm

Go back and look at posts 899, 915, 920, and 929, they are subjective, and so is 933. That is over half of your posts.
Also 933 is full of hate. Why do you hate so much? I'm no xenophobe, not even close. Also I'm not illiterate, nor uneducated. I got a 1540 on my SAT(I also got a 31 on the ACT but that was in the 7th grade), I had a 4.0 through out my undergrad, as well as my graduate degree. I'm married to a woman who is currently working on her PHD in dietetics and nutrition. I am not low class or some ignorant racist. Since you brought up my intellect though I'll keep going. My IQ is around 130, I've programmed multiple pieces of software being used in tons dental practices. I broker deals with some of the wealthiest men in Texas, deals ranging from 250,000 to 3 million usually. I am no fool. I'm not saying that the wall is a be all end all for immigration, or that it will even be cost effective. I haven't seen the bids or been in those meetings, but I do know that if we can find a way to create expensive border condos or find some other way of monetizing the wall, plus the tax revenue we can generate from revoking nafta(again I know we disagree that's ok), then it might make sense. If it turns out that it will cause the US to start losing large amounts of money then I am very against this wall. However if it can be done in a cost effective manner, and with not to much upkeep, then it will provide, if nothing else, a great sense of security(false or not) to a lot of Americans. It will also allow us to keep better tabs on who is here. I agree the expired visa issue is huge, one that no wall can fix, but that will have to be something we address entirely separately.
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Post Post #936  (isolation #169)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:53 pm

In post 935, Majiffy wrote:And yet you're arguing with 20 year olds about politics on a forum built for party games.

Pretty sure this board isn't for games, but rather general discussion, but point taken.
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Post Post #941  (isolation #170)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:20 pm

In post 941, Psyche wrote:even us millenials don't respect the writing section

Nor did Cornell when I got in.
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Post Post #947  (isolation #171)  » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:11 pm

In post 945, BROseidon wrote:
In post 942, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 941, Psyche wrote:even us millenials don't respect the writing section

Nor did Cornell when I got in.


Only Cornell, lol

To bad I went to North Texas, Cornell out of state is way to much.
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Post Post #964  (isolation #172)  » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:46 am

And that you apparently got accepted into Cornell what would timeline wise basically be a month before the semester started.

I graduated in 2012, that was in 2011.
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Post Post #965  (isolation #173)  » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:49 am

In post 956, zoraster wrote:
In post 955, LlamaFluff wrote:Its really impressive that you managed to go from getting fired from a Subway job to having a degree and graduate degree in under five years that gave you a job that you negotiate with people on a daily basis for multi-millions of dollars.


Wait. Are you saying that shotty's personal narrative might not be credible? Say it ain't so!

Also, don't forget he's had two kids during that time period.

My wife is 8 months pregnant and I have a two year old. I'll post pictures with them if the face with a name.thread is still around.
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Post Post #982  (isolation #174)  » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:19 pm

I can post my sat results if you want
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Post Post #984  (isolation #175)  » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:21 pm

In post 984, Not_Mafia wrote:Can we see your college transcipts?

Thats like 15 bucks dude.
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Post Post #987  (isolation #176)  » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:10 pm

In post 986, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 983, drmyshottyizsik wrote:I can post my sat results if you want

Hey, hey shotty.. Caring about SAT scores only indicates how immature you are, not how smart you are. At college level and beyond, nobody gives two fucks about SAT scores.

Your SAT number is as meaningful in the real world as my middle school football yardage number.

All I said is I could post them since I'm being called a liar. Fine by me if otherwise, it makes no never mind to me. I haven't used my sat score since first getting into college, hadn't thought about them in a while. Yes I'm proud of my score, I value intellect quite a lot. I do feel as if I've accomplished a fair amount for my age. I'm sorry if that bothers you. All of this stemmed from me being called dumb, remember that. I'm not bragging I'm simply responding and deffending myself from the insult.
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Post Post #990  (isolation #177)  » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:30 pm

In post 990, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 988, drmyshottyizsik wrote:All I said is I could post them since I'm being called a liar. Fine by me if otherwise, it makes no never mind to me. I haven't used my sat score since first getting into college, hadn't thought about them in a while. Yes I'm proud of my score, I value intellect quite a lot. I do feel as if I've accomplished a fair amount for my age. I'm sorry if that bothers you. All of this stemmed from me being called dumb, remember that. I'm not bragging I'm simply responding and deffending myself from the insult.

I'm sure you're not dumb, but surely you recognize that nobody whoever thought someone was dumb changed their mind after they heard about that person's SAT score.

When people call me dumb (and it happens a bunch), I either ignore them or re-explain my point so that they understand it better.

Fair enough.
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Post Post #1007  (isolation #178)  » Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:10 am

In post 1007, Untrod Tripod wrote:
In post 955, LlamaFluff wrote:Yeah, I am older than you and the "out of 1600" wasn't an option when I took it.

tbf the writing portion is nonsense

It was. I took it in 2010 it was there but I didn't do too well. Most of the schools I applied to only look at the composite score of the other two.
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Post Post #1012  (isolation #179)  » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:34 am

In post 1009, Untrod Tripod wrote:bragging about your SAT score is not a good look though, just saying

I know it was childish. I just really don't like being called dumb.
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Post Post #1029  (isolation #180)  » Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:51 pm

itle wrote:I hate the writing section, I went from a 1580 to a 2190
I feel ya. I went from 1560 to 2120
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Post Post #1030  (isolation #181)  » Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:52 pm

In post 1028, Rob13 wrote:Honestly, I think colleges should start making the SAT optional if you have like 3 AP tests under your belt. They need some form of standardized grading to compare students, and I can get behind that, but AP tests work just as well for comparing students.

Like if a college said "Take the SAT or take one science, one history/English/foreign language, and one math AP test", that would be fair.

I agree AP does a much better job than thr SAT.
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Post Post #1038  (isolation #182)  » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:56 pm

Sanders is up in Washington 75%
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Post Post #1059  (isolation #183)  » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:27 am

In post 1041, BROseidon wrote:
In post 1030, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
itle wrote:I hate the writing section, I went from a 1580 to a 2190
I feel ya. I went from 1560 to 2120


It shows

It's not binary. I didn't miss any of the multiple choice on the writing section. Also, as Reck may pop up and point out. I was a horrible speller back then.
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Post Post #1065  (isolation #184)  » Sun Mar 27, 2016 8:55 am

Burnie won 82% in Alaska, a whopping 440 votes total! Alaska is feeling the bern
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Post Post #1068  (isolation #185)  » Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:18 am

So I voted for Obama in my schools mock election. Then I voted Gary Johnson in 2012, and now I will vote Trump in 2016. Shit, I'm going to be a bitter old man who think everyone out after 10pm is selling dope before I know it.
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Post Post #1070  (isolation #186)  » Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:25 am

In post 1070, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 1069, drmyshottyizsik wrote:So I voted for Obama in my schools mock election. Then I voted Gary Johnson in 2012, and now I will vote Trump in 2016. Shit, I'm going to be a bitter old man who think everyone out after 10pm is selling dope before I know it.

Out of curiosity, where/when/how do you think Obama failed you?

By what metric are things not better now then they were the day he took office?

Personally other than ACA, the abuse of the executive order, the Iran deal, and other things I morally and politically disagree with, my life is better than it was prior. However, a lot of that is hard work on my part, but I haven't felt inhibited. I never said Obama failed me. I think he has failed this country, and made us very weak, but on a day to day basis my life hasn't been made any worse, as far as I know.
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Post Post #1071  (isolation #187)  » Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:27 am

In post 1070, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 1069, drmyshottyizsik wrote:So I voted for Obama in my schools mock election. Then I voted Gary Johnson in 2012, and now I will vote Trump in 2016. Shit, I'm going to be a bitter old man who think everyone out after 10pm is selling dope before I know it.

Out of curiosity, where/when/how do you think Obama failed you?

By what metric are things not better now then they were the day he took office?

One other thing I will say as far as metrics are concerned is that they are double edged. Yes more people are insured, but there has also been more money spent out of pocket. Yes jobs have been created, but unemployment numbers are misleading in the way they are recorded, and also most jobs are low in pay and low in hours. We are growing our lower class.
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Post Post #1073  (isolation #188)  » Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:36 am

In post 1073, Not_Mafia wrote:What do you dislike about the Iran deal? What specific executive orders did you think we're inappropriate?

It's Easter, and I'm on my phone, but tomorrow I'll post all about it.
However, I will say this. Iran how no business with nuclear anything.
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Post Post #1093  (isolation #189)  » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:44 am

In post 1093, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 1091, Elbirn wrote:*burps*

I was posited the argument that trumps wall will create jobs and is therefore good and I'm not smart enough to agree or disagree with that statement and have surprisingly found very little on that particular tidbit

Well, I guess it creates jobs the same way the Census creates jobs.

But we could also do something like use that same money and create the same jobs by improving our infrastructure and get more of a long-term benefit.

Well you see this is not true. This is why Mexico has to build the wall. Trump will have kicked out all of the wall builders.
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Post Post #1095  (isolation #190)  » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:27 am

In post 1095, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 1094, drmyshottyizsik wrote:Drumpf will have kicked out all of the wall builders.

There's some powerful naivety in that statement.

Statements like that tend to get made as if it's as easy as "Get Milk" on an errand list.

That was a joke.
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Post Post #1097  (isolation #191)  » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:37 am

Speaking of laws, I want ti zipf's law ms.
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Post Post #1101  (isolation #192)  » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:20 am

In post 1101, zoraster wrote:What about the archers and boiling oil specialists you can then hire to keep out the hordes?

Don't forget the draw bridge operators.
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Post Post #1106  (isolation #193)  » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:26 am

Hmmmm a few pages ago I said the new new wasn't all good. A lot of that was building and maintaining walls(well damns) and parks and I got screamed at.
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Post Post #1110  (isolation #194)  » Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:12 pm

Itle you speak as your own opinions are fact, then turn around and say you haven't said anything subjective.
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Post Post #1126  (isolation #195)  » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:52 am

In post 1126, Rob13 wrote:That's obviously not affiliated with the campaign Albert. Bernie is fighting for survival in the primaries. He gains nothing wasting money on Trump right now.

He's getting air time. Infact the more bernie protesters disrupt trump the better bernie seems to do.
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Post Post #1137  (isolation #196)  » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:13 pm

I'm done with this . If I don't agree with your speculation than I'm close minded and an idiot, and if I present a counter you say "jdjdj trumpf djdj idiot djdj no real reason watch me get pissy djdjdjdj you're not listening jsjdisks bwa!"
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Post Post #1143  (isolation #197)  » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:06 am

In post 1142, AlwaysInnocent wrote:That's a joke, right?

No they are real events. They don't fit your hate narrative so I'm sure you'll make excuses for yourself so that it does, but that's ok. Liberalism is an incurable mental disease.
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Post Post #1148  (isolation #198)  » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:52 am

In post 1148, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
In post 1144, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 1142, AlwaysInnocent wrote:That's a joke, right?

No they are real events. They don't fit your hate narrative so I'm sure you'll make excuses for yourself so that it does, but that's ok. Liberalism is an incurable mental disease.
Obviously you don't get the point. Reckoner gets it, though. I'm not the one making excuses -- it's you.

If you want to be taken seriously, then perhaps refrain from saying that liberalism is a mental disease, which merely exposes your ignorance on many subjects.

First off I'm not making excuses those are called reasons, I know reason is hard for you in your ideal bubble. Second this has been a thread of mindless and childish insult from both side so don't lecture me on beong taken seriously. Thirdly, my small retort in no way exposes any ignorance. I don't like liberalism, be it socialism, communism, or fascism, this doesn't make me ignorant, it just means I don't like it. I am quite informed on the subject, and I wouldn't have such a strong opinion if I weren't. Look up ignorant, it doesn't mean wrong or stupid or that you don't agree, although this is how you use it. It means uninformed. Believe it or not but God gave us free will and our founding fathers gave us the liberty to think how we please and use our opinion to enacted and persuade change via our elected representatives. Soooo we could look at the same thing and have different opinions, and neither of us would be ignorant.
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Post Post #1152  (isolation #199)  » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:07 am

In post 1152, Davsto wrote:
In post 1151, Untrod Tripod wrote:
In post 1149, drmyshottyizsik wrote:liberalism, be it socialism, communism, or fascism, this doesn't make me ignorant

it's ironic because those are four very different political ideologies!

excuse me i think you'll find he's very educated on political knowledges

I am, also knowledge is already plural.
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