Mini 1776: Evolution Mafia (Game Over)

[Edgar Allan Pro]

VOTE: Hellhound

AM: Hellhound

Aight den, if that's how it's gonna be.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I actually think we should ensure that town players are always on the wagon, while using our AM vote at L-1 to collectively agree on someone who probably shouldn't evolve.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I guess we could do it at L-2?

I mean, this isn't a huge game, and we can be civil.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Hellhound looks so happy that he's swinging a heat counterwagon.
Gonna punch his buns.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Nah, Flubber setup specc'ing reminds me of town-Flubber.
What was the game that you made that chart in, Flubber?
At least, I'm pretty sure you were town in that one.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Regardless, ain't a reason for me to abandon this hellacious wagon

[Edgar Allan Pro]

One of those games where we find scum on day 1 and get the easy lynch cause scum buddies want mutations too? Yup

It also makes people more eager to mislynch?
So frankly, I am not sure how well that is working in our favor.

Persevul may be my choice for a lynch today. So far, I feel like he is over-explaining.
VOTE: Persevul

I am not Varsoon, btw.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

the heat wagon was bad, why wagon someone who's not gonna respond to the pressure?

Nah, Flubber setup specc'ing reminds me of town-Flubber.

i'm gonna call this a reach

pers is doing good work right now. you're alright pers
-EP

Why do you like Pers's play right now? I don't have Varsoon's experience, but I don't get it.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

VOTE: Heat
Hellhound is providing the heat for this wagon.

Then again, this is confusing. Why would you build a wagon on a VLA player? It is not like we are going to get reactions out of them. I will admit to skimming a little already, but this is either underhanded or willfully ignorant of the game state, imo.

P.S. Pfffffff What Flubber said

[Edgar Allan Pro]

@Sir
Heat was a bizarre RVS vote, though. RVS is there to stir the shit or w/e, right? I just don't think you were paying attention, homie. Why don't you wanna cop to that?

@Flub: That is an odd refutation there in 151.

I am still not Varsoon. I don't know who is telling yu jerks otherwise.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I'm showing the contradiction in his accusation I really don't see the problem

But you could not try as town AND scum, but only try as scum and Cakez could still be right?

But w/e.

What is the vote count on SirCakes now? *looks*

[Edgar Allan Pro]

[/vote]SirCakezVOTE:

I think that puts the man at 5.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SirCakez
I think that puts the man at 5.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Pfffff. Fucked up there.

@Flub:
Consider the following:

Scum:
Game1=Try
Game2=Try
Game3=Not Try
Game4=Not Try

Town:
Game5=Not Try
Game6=Not Try
Game7=Not Try
Game8=Not Try

Here, you only try as scum and only not try as town.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Wait. I said that wrong x3

I forgot the structure of my own argument halfway through.

You said this though:
"So you're saying I don't try exclusively as town?"

The answer to that could be "no" and you could still on ly be trying as scum

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Oh yeah. This was totally a useless diversion that I did not expect to happen when I said I found your refutation odd. -w-

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Persevul may be my choice for a lynch today. So far, I feel like he is over-explaining.

how is he over explaining? he's made maybe like 3 content posts and all of those were succinct votes and reasons for those votes.

Actually, I think it is only 99 that really made me feel like that. I was looking at him because also voted for Heat (as did Hellhound) and he made a lot of filler posts. Looking at his ISO though, you are right; my gut feeling about his over-explaining was misplaced.

Pers is still not my favorite slot this game, though.

My favorite slot is me. Also, I am still not Varsoon.

@Apri: You are gonna need to wait for Varsoon.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Nah, Flubber setup specc'ing reminds me of town-Flubber.
What was the game that you made that chart in, Flubber?
At least, I'm pretty sure you were town in that one.

I've never made a chart to my memory.

I very rarely partake in setup spec. There usually ends up being too much information that I have to try and keep organized in my mind to really work with it, but I wish to improve that aspect of my game, hence my current strategy.

I'll have to dredge it up but it was awhile ago. I remember you were speculating the different outcomes of different plays and then you ended up scanning some notebook pages where you wrote out different possibilities. I recall being impressed by the effort and townreading you for it.

VOTE: Hellhound

The SirCakes wagon is a shitty counterwagon to Hellhound and I won't stand by it.
I'm going to have to talk to my other head about why he plopped a vote there.

-Varsoon

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I didn't realize how many games I've played with Flubbernugget (FF7, NY182, Diamond Shreddies, Booneytoons, Molligeddon, Drawn on Arrive, Hope+1, Advance Wars UPick!, to name a few).
I do remember noting that Flubber is a little meaner when scum, although he did have some edge in Hope+1.
Notably, looking through these games, I tend to butt heads with Flubber and catch a vote from him in almost all these games.
Of course, I dived Flubber's ISO in all the games I could remember that we'd played together (from his 'My Topics' page) and I can't find the one I was talking about.
So I must be confusing Flubber with someone else. Flubber, do you remember playing a game with me where someone posted some actual scans of real life notebook pages with game notes?

I apologize; this is another reason I try not to rely on meta too much--I don't take notes of my own and it can be easy to forget or confuse things. Also, I don't think certain behaviors are really tied to certain alignments in a player's meta as neatly as a lot of people tend to believe.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I don't know, especially with my other head making the dumb move of voting Cakes.
Maybe it was Cheetory or House or someone? I recall it coming from someone I didn't expect, and being really floored by it, but I also associated with you, who I associate with an old man, because maybe you used to use an old man for your avatar, or perhaps your current avatar just strikes me as an old man.

We can chew the fat about this game, though, until you wanna butt heads with me over a bad read of mine. I'm sure I've got a few.
-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Don't pull that 'erryone is kicking me man feels bad' appeal.
You did open the game with a spooky gif.
Besides, this sounds like scum-caught-for-the-wrong-reasons.
What don't you agree with with regards to how Max, Flubber, and Cakes are pushing you?
Why does it seem like 'getting kicked in the face'? Even I thought your all-caps outburst post was a bit much, mayne.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

You can moan and wail or you can put down some content that folks can actually engage and grapple with.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I've read the thread. You've got a bunch of quality posts engaging the people 'kicking you';

Specter, can I just say. I really like your guys avatar.

Obviously you guys all think Antihero is scum, and thats okay. I think he is kinda scumy too. But guys...

Its me firebringer. I am obviously obviously not town, like ever.
So won't you leave me be for a day?

Dictated but not read,
Firebringer

PEdit: Bruh I didn't say 'scummy defense' I said 'treatment of the Cakez wagon'

oh my god

if we're really doing this, just fucking kill me now

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Like, chill out, slow down, it's Day 1, page 13, you can actually engage with people instead of THRASHING.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Your response of "I already did that" and "You didn't read the thread!" is indicative of the THRASH.
-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

For you;

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Although, honestly, I prefer:

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Your ISO is full of posts like that. Want me to go grab six more?

Don't just run away. I want you here. Talk to me about your reads. Talk to be about SirCakes.
Having Firebringer do damage control is just... why?
If you're town, you've got no reason to care about that stuff.




@Specter: Except dat's not my entire push. Yeah, he feels like 'scum caught for the wrong reasons', but that's never been the entire reason for my push regardless.
I voted Hellhound early. Hellhound hasn't responded to that pressure well at all.
Given the first chance of swinging a counterwagon--when SirCakes was shown to have some vote support, Hellhound went for it.
Now Hellhound is flailing more.
I don't agree with everyone else on the wagon, but no, homie, you're reading absolutes rather than factors.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Like, even Hellhound has been pushing the whole, "You guys see me as scummy for the wrong reasons" thing.
-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Although, hm, a lot of people have just outright abandoned the Hellhound wagon for other ventures.
I'm not seeing what makes SirCakes, Flubber, or Persivul so scum.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

The speed at which the wagon picked up on Hellhound and then dropped, followed by Hellhound still seeming tense to the point of wanting Firebringer to run damage control just strikes me as particularly weird.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

The speed at which the wagon picked up on Hellhound and then dropped, followed by Hellhound still seeming tense to the point of wanting Firebringer to run damage control just strikes me as particularly weird.

What strikes me as weird is the way you push HH, but throw in some seeming coaching posts like 302 and 306.

Asking someone to stick around and parse out their thoughts is coaching?
Oh me oh my.
I just figure that, with more content from the slot, people (as well as me) could come to a more accurate read on what might otherwise be a large questionmark.

P-EDIT:
Why Shiro?
I also agree, kinda a bad post.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

This isn't the first time someone's said 'FB feels town to me';
Maybe that's why Anti wants to defer to FB?
Doesn't feel good.
Both heads of a hydra should represent.
Speaking of, I really need to skype my other head. We haven't touched base since we got our role PM.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I could see the town logic behind it if you agree that town wants to be survivalistic, but I've always adhered to the philosophy that town should just wear their guts on the outside for everyone to see.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

@Specter: I tend to think that scum are the ones who try to keep up appearances, whereas town are more prone to just playing a 'genuine' game.

This isn't the first time someone's said 'FB feels town to me';

Were they right?

I did a test this morning - I read the beginning of his ISOs in several games without checking his alignment beforehand, and I read him right in 4 of 5 games (the fifth I wasn't right or wrong, I couldn't get a feel one way or the other). Those weren't hydras, but he was operating mostly solo at the beginning of this one.

Numbers-wise, if you always guessed 'town', you'd be right three out of four times anyway.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

<3
I'm sorry for driving you mad, yo.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

There we go, Flubbadub-dub.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Should we Anti-mutagen Icerint just in case he's scum claiming miller?
Feels like a legit miller claim to me, actually.
UNVOTE:
I'll give Hellhound some breathing space since I got all I wanted out of Hellhound for now.

We've played together before, do you not know the lovable face of Varsoon?
-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

That does remind me:

AM: Unvote

I agree--AM votes shouldn't be synonymous with with regular votes. They ONLY get utility by being on a player who is on the lynch wagon. That's why I was suggesting stalling at L-1 or L-2 to set up AM votes. Other people said that was dumb. :/

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Oh, I missed that bit--I either misread or forgot.
So AM votes go for the following day's lynch, which makes it a bit awkward to figure out how to parse them out.
If you're lynching the person you find most likely to be scum, an AM on the person you find second most likely to be scum seems like a good idea--unless you just lynch that guy on the following day.

Maybe we should all just decide on someone that should never mutate? Hm.
I mean, we can still use it on a globally scumread player, but now that player has to play along with not joining any wagon that crops into a lynch.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Pagetop, for great justice.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Should we Anti-mutagen Icerint just in case he's scum claiming miller?
Feels like a legit miller claim to me, actually.
UNVOTE:
I'll give Hellhound some breathing space since I got all I wanted out of Hellhound for now.

We've played together before, do you not know the lovable face of Varsoon?
-V

I am upset with you for making antihero mad.
>___>

You are on the naughty list for awhile, but I don't know if you are scum for that push on us.

I once drew a picture of Anti wearing an ass hat and the hat was pooping and Anti was eating the poop from the hat.

I am not Varsoon.

I also am having trouble reading this game (though I think my other head is blowing the "badness" of the early Cakez wagon out of proportion). I think pushing low producing players may be what to do next. I actually like the Shiro push, in that regard.

I am maybe a little wary of Lane right now. I feel like he has made a lot of filler posts and has kind of been going with the flow and taking shots where he can.

@Ice Why can't we just use AM as kind of a more formal FoS? That way, "scum-ish" players will still be less likely to get powers. Maybe I am having trouble following you?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Page top for the hydra!

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I disagree with you, homie.

Sometimes I want people to pay extra special attention to a slot I find suspicious, but also think there is a better lynch for that day (be that due to information or I just have two pretty good scum reads or w/e)

Still not Varsoon.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Gonna chirp in and say that I don't really do FoS and prefer to just use my actual vote as tangible pressure on slots.
For me, I'd rather just articulate why I find a slot scummy--serves the same purpose as FoS or whatever.
I also agree that trying to 'spread pressure' rather than focusing on one place at a time does get kinda whack, but you can also run the risk of tunneling and confbiasing yourself into oblivion.
At least, I know I have in the past.

This is Varsoon.
-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Please do catch up. It's nonsense that we've got a 1-week deadline and folks that still haven't posted more than the mod.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I wanna see posts from Lane and Shiro still. Did Shiro ever respond to the wagon on him?

*rattles saber*

*is now not Varsoon*

VOTE: Shiro

AM:Lane

P.S.: Man. Earlier, I though Cakez may have been copying some of my gameplay, but now I think we are just hitting on the same wavelength this game for whatever reason.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

@Hiplop: I thought you were a hydra in this game?

@Lane: I dropped the pressure for now because it was going nowhere. Hellhound literally shut down. I wanted to recoup with my other head and avoid just tunneling, y'know? It's important to spend D1 looking at everyone.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

But you had no better place to put your vote. That's the part I find shady. So hellhound is still your number 1 scumread?

I had other places to put it, but wanted to talk to my other head before doing so and then coming back to him shuffling it around again.
Yes, Hellhound is still my most informed and highest scum-read. I'm hoping I can suss out why other people are town reading him, because I'm still unsure of it. Most people seem to have bought into Anti's backing out, but I just see that as an appeal to emotion after being backed in a relative corner.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

That said, my other head also isn't that sold on Hellhound. Last I heard from him, he really wanted more info from people that were skirting by, such as Lane, Shiro, and Heat. He said he doesn't want to push people that are replacing out or on V/LA, though, since we've got such a small day phase it would be a waste of time as far as whatever info we'd see from it. The other night, he hit me with "I wanna vote Shiro and AM Lane. You have 10 minutes to stop me." Such is our scandalous relationship.

Furthermore, he's not really sure why I see Hellhound as a viable wagon, and the problem is that I don't. Getting a lynch out on Hellhound would probably only happen at deadline, given the reads people have on him. There's at least two scum in this game, I figure, so I decided I'd look elsewhere and get a better gauge on the whole of the game rather than entrenching myself against something that probably won't happen today.

As a note, Not!Varsoon also wanted to pressure Icerint before catching up and seeing the Miller claim. Guess we got the same vibe from the slot, but I feel like the Miller claim is pretty genuine.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I like anti's recent posts on eap. I would like to see their rebuttal.

I'm also interested in what reads Sircakez has

You want me to rebut someone who has not made a case on me?

(Not varsoon here)


@Heat: Hey hot hot heeeeeat. Got any red hot scum reads this game? Or are you just from Ontario so your Heat is not even that hot.

P.S. @Specter: I mostly wanted to push lurkers some because I was not really feeling any of my reads too strongly yet. Varsoon seems sure abut Hell, but I really am not buying his case.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

While I am here:
@Spector some more: I also have some reason to not like Hiplop, not the least of which was that over reaction to an FoS.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I am pretty sure Spector Deflector is town.

I am gonna keep an eye on the slot, though cuz I can't read Maxwell scum for shit. I spectated SU mafia (I am not Varsoon) and I did not get his wagon when it formed and I was double surprised when that motherfucker actually flipped scum.

@Lane and Hiplop
Why are you guys getting so bent out of shape that he is scum reading you two? You can defend yourselves when he or I actually try to push your wagons and lay out our arguments. Telling you what makes your play scummy right now would just let you correct your game and make building a case against you harder later.

In summary: get gud, scumfucks.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

@SpecterDeflectors: I don't think effort is indicative of alignment, but I generally do find it easier to get better reads on people who have posted content and engaged with other players/had to deal with some pressure on their slot.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

How is explaining my approach to Mafia 'scumming it up'?
Keep throwing that shade, Hellhound. It's sunny out today, and I want to stay cool.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I did, but let Hellhound warp it to his conf-bias.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I'm almost positive that the miller claim isn't a lie.
Unless Icerint is town gambiting, at which point, it's STILL a town-claim.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I'm really loving this flavor.
Also
VOTE: Hellhound
Why didn't you vote for anyone as the day was coming to a close?

I feel uneasy about hiplop, although the AM on them eases that stress a little.
I'm hoping people actually post today. :/

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Like; Hellhound swings onto the Shiro wagon, but then when we've got about 10 hours left to deadline, they unvote.
What the fuck.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

because we're scum and we saw the lynch was going through so we totally bailed on getting a pr

Nice OMGUS and scumclaim.

On the real, I think you actually figured that you'd stall out and there'd be no lynch. There's not a plurality lynch in this game, just a majority vote lynch. Even if the entire scumteam was on the lynch wagon, the town power gained would out-pace how much scum could control the game. In this game, No Lynches aid scum the most because scum continue to get kills, but town don't get abilities such as protectives, investigates, etc.

You can keep playing up your hydra dissonance, but you take up one slot. :/

[Edgar Allan Pro]

It's irresponsible and anti-town to simply unvote or vote no-lynch within >24 hours of deadline.
I wouldn't be so critical if you were swinging a different wagon, but you weren't. You unvoted, then started asking questions with no urgency, as if there weren't 10 hours till deadline.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Also, 'founding' the Shiro wagon doesn't matter at all when you hopped off to wagon Hiplop within a page of Specter Deflectors going there as well.
Founding the Shiro wagon doesn't matter at all when you hop back onto it and then off of it within the >24 hours to lynch range.
Finally, 'founding' the Shiro wagon actually makes you look even scummier, given Shiro's townflip.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Why as scum would I jump off the wagon when it gives me powers to stay on it? RIDDLE ME THAT!

Ohh wait, you can't because your scum pushing for a stupid mislynch.

Stop proving that you're not even reading or engaging with my posts.
I already explained this:

There's not a plurality lynch in this game, just a majority vote lynch. Even if the entire scumteam was on the lynch wagon, the town power gained would out-pace how much scum could control the game. In this game, No Lynches aid scum the most because scum continue to get kills, but town don't get abilities such as protectives, investigates, etc.

Scum are much more likely to form a long-lasting wagon on town in the early game. When it comes to bussing, scum typically just do fleeting distancing rather than rooted 300-post-long bussing. The chances of you deciding, "Hey, let me dig my feet in against this town player early..." then seeing it wasn't working out and sheeping onto the Hiplop wagon is slightly scummy. I understand that town votes for town and doubles down on town a lot, even in the early game. This isn't the crux of my push on you. This is simply supplementing the larger scum read I have.

I came out the game voting you today because I want answers. Instead, you're making a fuss and posting a mile-a-minute.
You're acting like my push is out of my ass, discrediting it for no good reason. This is blatant mud-slinging. You've been throwing shade on me the whole game.
What would you do when your biggest scum-read waffles on a town-player being wagoned, unvotes in the most anti-town fashion, then rides out the day without voting anyone else?

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I don't get the lane push.
Explain it to me, Cakez?
Explain it to me, Hiplop?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Why don't you guys weigh in on Lane, too?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I can see Firebringer doing that as a gambit to force the day to a no lynch (though for other reasons I do still think this slot is town)

Have you seen Firebringer do gambits like that before?
What reasons do you have for townreading Hellhound?
Why the Cakez Vote? I mean, aside from his current lane push.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

No.
VOTE: AM: Hellhound
Just in case you guys lynch someone else while I'm out.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Gonna need some elaboration on those reads, Hellhound.

Also, if I'm not here much; I've recently gotten a job and I'm moderating one of the most mod-intensive games I've ever run. And I'm trying to balance a social life with a significant other on top of that. What's worse is that my other head has more going on in his personal life than I do. We hydra'd up hoping that we could balance each other's activity and all that.
If you've got questions for us, just bold our name and ask away. I'll get to 'em when I get to 'em.

<3
-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

@Hellhound: e·lab·o·rate
verb
əˈlabəˌrāt/
1. develop or present (a theory, policy, or system) in detail.
"the key idea of the book is expressed in the title and elaborated in the text"


You need to give us all the details for how you came to those conclusions based on the evidence we all already have in the thread.
Why are you seeing these people as town are scum? Present your reads in detail. Elaborate.
To me, your reads list just looks like a going-through-the-motions to seem like you're real into this game and haven't spent all your time death-tunneling me.
It looks like you just assigned people town or scum values but, other than in the case of your own interactions with those slots, I have no clue how you're coming to all those conclusions.

@Hiplop: Why lane?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

i'm ignoring you for the rest of the game

Nice scum post.
Just disengage with anyone who scumreads you or asks you to elaborate on your content produced.
It's almost like you've got some real secrets, Hellhound...

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Poe, how come you're not too busy to fight with anti but can't read the thread?

I'm reading now, obv.
It kinda bums me out that Hellhound is turning my scumread into me just being a jerk. :/
What are your thoughts on the game, Flubber? I'm not entirely sure that I follow the whole Cakez/Lane thing, myself. I've been trying to get some insight into it but people have been dodgy and only about 1/2 the players are even posting.


-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Not Varsoon reporting in at long last.

I quickly read the last few pages. Honestly, I am not hating my other head's push on Hellhound as much as I once did. 910 comes off as really unnecessarily defensive to me.

That said, we have one day to lynch I guess?
I'd jump onto cakes at the 11th hour if I needed to; Heat's case on the lad makes enough sense. However, I dunno. At the risk of being offensive, I think it is perfectly plausible that Cakez is just gormless town.

I am still not super crazy about Lane, though. I'd jump on that too. I may read his ISO and build a more real case tonight but I am not sure if there is enough time.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

We should all just vote for Hellhound. Not Varsoon here.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Yeah. 755 is actually one of the main reasons I don't like Lane. If that was a town post then it would be a weird ham-fisted gambit.

I am not sure about the other post you sited, though. Something something no kill equals no information and no investigative powers for town something something.

Would you say that is reasonable, Cakez?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Now I am worried about Zakk and a possible Zakk/Lane scum team. :T

-Still !V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Now I am worried about Zakk and a possible Zakk/Lane scum team. :T

-Still !V

Where do you pull that from?

The jump off of Lane and generally jumping back and forth between Lane and Cakez.

He is also trying to build a wagon on you with less than a day left but has not really been pushing the case on you that much. Like: I see where he is coming from on you. He sites some kind of bullshitty posts from your ass, but now he is saying that he is following his gut and expects that to build a wagon in less than 24 hours. That shit ain't gonna happen. You need to vocalize your case.

He also just jumped off the Lane wagon, which pulls Cakez into being the single defacto viable wagon.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Oh crap we have less then a day left.
EAP and Hellhound need to kill their 1v1 for now and vote a wagon, Deflectors also needs to get off of Persivul (idk what they were doing there).

Chill your tits, homes. Hellhound just hopped to your counter wagon.

You are just pressuring me because I have recently voiced some preference for the Lane wagon. -w-;
Did you even read my recent posts? I think I have been more than vocal about my awareness of our time limit.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Wat
I'm not pressuring you
I just want you to move your vote to a viable wagon :/

So you are saying it would be a good idea to vote for you? <w<

What would you consider the viable wagons, Cakez?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I'm here.
Who do we have to vote to avoid a no-lynch?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I think there's a really obvious answer for that one, SpecterD.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

UNOFFICIAL VOTECOUNT 2.35

SirCakez (6):

Flubbernugget, Persivul, Heat, Zakk, lane0168, hiplop

lane0168 (3):

SirCakez, Hellhound, Specter Deflectors

Hellhound (1):

Edgar Allan Pro

Hiplop (1):

Apricity

Not Voting (0):

Spoiler: Antimutagen

Flubbernugget (4):

SirCakez, Persivul, Specter Deflectors, hiplop

lane0168 (2):

Heat, Zakk

hiplop (2):

Hellhound, lane0168

Hellhound (1):

Edgar Allan Pro

With 11 Votes, it takes 6 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-04-01 18:02:14)

Antimutagen: Flubbernugget

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Pretty sure Cakez was town. :/
What the fuck, people?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Those last minute vote-hops and fake hammers don't feel good to me at all.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I figured you were town; my other head wasn't convinced, but I would've definitely swung Lane before you. Regardless, you just gotta step it up, kohai.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Were you really charmander, though?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Also; reads, thoughts, etc?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Do we know if the scum team has daychat?
'cus if so, the whole lane/hiplop thing being co-ordinated makes a lot more sense.
If no, I'm willing to buy that there's just 1 scum in the pair.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

VOTE: Hiplop

AM: Hellhound[/v]

That hammer was inexcusable.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

AM: Hellhound

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I do like that Hiplop is OMGUSing me because he knows Hellhound will back him up no matter how shitty his push is.
The only vote on me that I'm townreading is Zakk.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

What's next, Hiplop?
Gonna claim a fake guilty on me?


-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Hellhound links post after post of himself not building a case against this hydra and just saying "c'mon lynch him" and thinks that means he fought to have me lynched. I don't even know what homie is doing, really.

That dog don't hunt.

That dog don't hunt. (Explaining the joke for Anti's sake: your hydra is name Hell

hound

and you never actually scum hunt.)
-!V, btw.

P.S. Fucking Varsoon swooping in right when I caught up.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

It is 50% shtick, 30% thinking I can rattle your cage and have you make mistakes, and 20% not liking your lack capitalization coupled with your sense of superiority.
-!V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Like: do you think you are too cool to hold down the shift key like the rest of us? Come on, man.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

[Edgar Allan Pro]

My main question is why would Persivul claim out of the blue like that?
Especially with such a negative-utility looking role.
It's either town trying to put info on the table about their negative utility (in my experience, Ascetic always claims ASAP) or it's scum gambiting that claiming their negative utility will get them townread.
In either case, there really wasn't much pressure to lynch Persivul anyway, right? I thought it was going to be down to Lane or Hiplop, tbh.

I don't know how to make heads or tails of it. I guess we trust him on the claim, though.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

That's the only way you get to corral for both of us to get lynched so that you can swing off your hard push on me should a Persivul wagon spring up, right?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Fencesit harder, Scumlop.
<3

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I'd love for you to illuminate how I'm not reading, bro.
Seeing as there's about two posts every day, it's a pretty farfetched claim to make.

A "No Result" on persivul does not equal a need to claim, homie.
Especially given Persivul's claim, if true.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Like, there was literal no pressure to claim.
Hellhound votes are proven worthless votes with no pressure in this game.
Otherwise I would've been lynched D1, right?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

That's what I'm saying, that's what I'm commenting on.
Maybe you need to re-read the thread.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Derp, you got me, I am illiterate.
I misread the claim as Ascetizer twice, rather than Ascetic and then evolved to Ascetizer.
I thought it was like SirCakez, where he got an single shot and could evolve into a second shot.
In this case, yeah, you're right.

Would "No Result" still be yielded if Persivul didn't visit anyone anyway or would it say "Persivul didn't visit anyone"?
Because if "No Result" is is indicative of not visiting anyone, then it's no pressure, but if "No Result" absolutely means a blocked action/rolestopped/ascetic, then I do see what you mean.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Fencesit harder, Scumlop.
<3

fence....sit?

"I'll just call both other high-profile players up to lynch today scum so that if the votes swing to anyone but me, I can vote there and look like I'm not just lolhammering like I did yesterday."

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Who as AM'd yesterday, by the way?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Nope, try again.
You're scum and I'm lynching you.
You still haven't excused or explained your horrible play yesterday.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Who as AM'd yesterday, by the way?

Why'd you dodge this question, Hiplop?
If I am reading the game right, you were AntiMutagen'd yesterday, meaning you couldn't evolve.
Why did you troll hammer when there were two other players who you could have let vote and gain more powers?
Even if you think I'm scum, why did you do that when you don't seem to be scumreading Specter Deflectors?

VOTE: Hiplop

Die.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

You literally just went
"ALL THE OPTIONS OF PEOPLE THAT I COULD REALISTICALLY LYNCH RIGHT NOW ARE MY SCUMREADS"
You built your fence and now you're sitting on it, bro.
Your opinions aren't extreme in the least. :/
You still haven't answered for the points I made in 1272.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

That's fine and dandy; I think you're scum before anyone else on this playerlist.
I'm really annoyed by how much people are just forgetting all of your awful, anti-town, scum-as-shit play up to this point.
I feel like I'm some sort of madman here, like am I the only one who sees this shit?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Idgaf, if you flip town, then just quicklynch me or some shit
I'm so done

[Edgar Allan Pro]

All I've ever wanted was a lynch on Hellhound or Hiplop and you stupid fucks keep lynching people that I tell you are town
I literally handed you scum on a silver platter and you refuse to lynch them
Fuck this noise
!Varsoon can just play the rest of this one out


-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

It disgusts me that you're all like, "He's built actual cases against players, fuck him, he must be scum."
I stand by my wagons. The ease at which I'm being scumread by literally everyone but Specter Deflectors should be indicative of my alignment, you chumps.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Pic Related; it's how far you're stretching here.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

You better start giving a fuck about Space Jam, and you better start giving a fuck fast.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Actually, the occam's razor is just that it is literally the truth, lol.
I'm pretty sure everyone with exception of SD has voiced suspicion and willingness to vote me at one point or another.
Whatever narrative you derived from the truth is in your head.

I want that Hiplop lynch. I have extremely good reason to believe Hiplop is scum.
Barring that, I'll take Hellhound.
But that's it.

Ya'll mothafuckas can talk to Not!Varsoon about anything that falls beyond that ultimatum.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Heat's such a non-presence in this game, I wouldn't be surprised.
That said, I am much more certain of my other scumreads.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I'm not lynching Hellhound. What's your extremely good reason about Hiplop?

He's scum.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Oh, I got a result that said hiplop visited Flubber.
I was pretty sure that indicated Hiplop-scum.
I'm glad I'm not the only person who wanted to be sure of the slot.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Combined with Hiplop's scummy play, bad hammer, and my result, I was pretty sure he was scum.
We haven't lynched any scum yet, so if there is a godfather effect in play, I don't know how much we can trust any single investigative result, but, ehhhh

Notable is that the second Hiplop is maybe-cop-cleared, Hellhound, being my alternative push, starts going balls-deep pushing me.
It's like they're scared they'll be lynched and instead want to divert flow my way.
So, until we sort out this Hiplop stuff;
VOTE: Hellhound

P-EDIT:
I crumbed it, dumbass.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Also, I didn't want to claim because I don't want to paint a big-ass target on my back, but there you go.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

What's next, Hiplop?
Gonna claim a fake guilty on me?


-V

I knew that Hiplop didn't visit me last night in this post; was trying to bait Hiplop into claiming actions contrary to the ones I got at night.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I apologize if I play too aggressively for your sensibilities.
The rhetorical situation of the game requires me to play in ways that aren't always friendly-diplomatic.
I don't mean for my play to be a personal assault.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I'll gladly trade myself for a lynch on scumlop

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I got am'd yesterday. Did not visit flubber

VOTE: Hiplop

Being AM'd does not prevent you from visiting players.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I take offense to anyone scum-reading me, Wgeurts.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Then either you're lying or I was given a false read that wasn't a redirect.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Persivul flaking in the face of all of this also doesn't really look good on him. My other head wants a lynch there, but I don't want to give up on or compromise my own suspicions/leads.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Yeah. I'm not amazing at crumbing--I usually am too explicit with it.
I wanted it to be clear that I know Hiplop didn't visit me and to say that at the start of the day in a way that wouldn't fully out the fact I did have that knowledge.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I'm pretty sure that I made another post that was even less explicit, but I can't find it now. :/
Maybe I thought about making it and then decided not to, deciding one crumb was enough?
Last time I crumbed, scum figured that shit out before town and killed me.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I literally just told you I am shit at making crumbs.
I actually did expect you to fake a guilty on me, or at least claim some shit contrary to the result I got.
I wanted to see how thirsty you were for a lynch on me.
I imagine, given my role, you would be.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Then what am I to interpret this as other than a factional kill or a false-positive sent to me?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Naw. He ain't lying -w-

-!V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Why you keep talkin' about hammers?
There's 3 votes on me and it takes 5, right?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

And fuck you, you don't get to run away from facing this problem right now by being like
"WELP HAMMER HIM BEFORE EVERYONE GETS TO SEE AND DISCUSS THIS"

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Here's my theory:
1. There's a fucked up false-positive role in the setup that's messing with me
or
2. You're a lying scum godfather

Occam's razor is telling me 2.
VOTE: Hiplop

Fugg whatever !Varsoon wanted to do.

-V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Your shitty hammer yesterday was meant to bait investigates
Hooooly shit
It's so obvious now

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I knew that Hiplop didn't visit me last night in this post; was trying to bait Hiplop into claiming actions contrary to the ones I got at night.

like what

you expected me to fake a guilty on you????????????

That quoting though XD

Tbf EAP that was a terrible crumb. I would never have processed that as being a crumb.

Doesn't that make it the BEST crumb?

Anyway, yes it said Hiplop visited Flubber last night.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

thats literally the wrong play

you lynch the fakeclaim and me if hes telling the truth

hint hes not

Says scum when they want to lynch an investigative role. How the fuck does that make sense?

-!V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

!V you've got more investigatives then?
- Max

Not answering this question but you should know how many times I've evolved (hint: It is one time).

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Dem appeals, Hiplop
"Ep knows how town I am"
"No he doesnt"
"Shit."

[Edgar Allan Pro]

might as well fullclaim

I'm a FUCKING BOMB. PGO, essentially for nightkills.

Thats why I 'crumbed' so hard day one.

now lets vote eap in peace plz

Good job negating any utility your claimed role might have had while simultaneously explaining why scum-you won't be killed.
It's so obvious you're scum that it hurts.
I hope you coast off your stupid Godfather 'clear' until endgame.

Here is the problem with that line of thinking, Zak:
If you kill me, scum kills Apricity for cop potential. If you don't kill me, scum had to choose between Apricity and myself.

Pickin up the slips.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

because errant and you should be townreading me

just a heads up

that varsoon has never townread me ever

These are both lies.
Hiplop is just straight lying and crossing his fingers you'll believe him.

Aside from that, his behavior (esp. wrt Hellhound) is not cutting it for town.

I'm sorry if my 'treatment' of my number 1 scumread was wrong?

he has 3 votes

i have one

vote eap

This is Hiplop directly trying to strongarm a lynch on me. Chances are, his scumbuddies are already voting me, so he's created a false sense of "Oh there are three votes for him and only one for me, he's clearly the scummier one" when scum control the strongest unified voting bloc in the game right now.

So basically if you guys don't lynch hiplop, I don't know what's wrong with you.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

So I REALLY hate when I lay out what is a very clear, unrefuted argument for why Hiplop is scum and Hiplop's response is
"No guuuys Varsoon can't read me, you guys, I'm town, lynch him! Look at how many votes he has."
Nevermind the whole "Varsoon has never correctly read me" is null-as-fuck and even errs on a scumslip--it's basically admission that I am trying to 'figure out' his alignment rather than the fact I could be scum/already know it.


And then you believe him over me.

So like, let's change that?
Guys Hiplop has never correctly read me before!
Guys you know I'm town this is the towniest game I've ever played
Guys Hiplop has 9 votes on him pls lynch

[Edgar Allan Pro]

"Oh fuck someone else thinks I'm scum because they can see that I'm lying full-tilt; better call them scumbuddies with EAP!"

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Don't refute arguments or anything, Hiplop.
I'm sure your buddies will sheep you and give town a false sense of you being right.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I've got a really awesome reason for why you haven't been shot yet; scum don't shoot themselves.
Also, scum bomb is a thing that could exist, so I'm not even really doubting the validity of the claim.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

It's just that the way you claimed completely wrecks it of any town utility and only serves the purpose of explaining why you won't be shot from here on out

Which, imo, is a super scum thing to do.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Unless you have strong reason to believe there is a town vig in the setup who might shoot you, but if you did, then that doesn't align with you trying to draw a kill/stealing hammer and playing very scummy.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Hurrdurr
Enjoy losing

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Hiplop's going to coast off of my lynch for the rest of the game
This is some bullshit.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I stacked about a mountain of evidence that he's clearly scum godfather--he also makes the scummiest claim, moves goalposts, etc, and you all STILL lynch me instead of him?

Blacklist me, whatever, I'm just playing according to the evidence that I have and to my own intuition.
If that makes me a shitty player, fuck it, I'm a shitty player.
Scatman forever, dawg.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Also nice calling up your buddy Heat to swing in like that.
Playing like you guys don't have a PT together with this whole, "I'm gonna trust you lol"
disgusting

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Wait. Was that the hammer or not?
-!V

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I sincerely hope town listens to me after I'm dead
But chances are you'll just coast to a win and get a scummy for it lol 10/10 Varsoon sucks Hiplop the best


@!V That was the hammer, by my count. It's only 5 to lynch.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Yeah it was Hiplop, Persivul, Firebringer, Zakk, Heat.
Heat hammered in the last literal 30 minutes because "lol gotta get them evos and hammer claimed investigatives."

Dicks.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Before thread locks:
Lynch Persivul and Hiplop.
Heat's probably their third, if my analysis is worth anything.
I trust Spector Deflectors, Apricity, and Lane to be town, with Lane being the weakest townread of the three due to the townflip on Cakez.

Take that shit to the grave.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Hellhound honestly might be my hubris, so really lynch the people we have hard guilty evidence on first please.
Just investigate Hellhound and clear them before trusting me there.
I did entrench and I got a bit too fiesty; I really am sorry.
Although if that was a tactical replace-out hidden via AtE, I will forever scorn you, but I highly doubt it. <3
I hope we can all be cool after the game is over.
I'm sorry I shit games up so bad.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

persivul voting me dork

Where?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

"In the case a lynch wagon isn't achieved and the deadline passes all players on the wagon with the most on it will mutate."

Fuck my life
All you goddamn mutants

[Edgar Allan Pro]

You're all just letting scum mutate without even letting lynches go through like what the fuck

[Edgar Allan Pro]

If there really was no lynch I'm going to be so fucking mad

[Edgar Allan Pro]

hiplop just scumclaim already.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I agree with that. Especially if heat knew it wasnt a hammer.

buuuut hiplops posts at day end of d2 were even worse
guess if scum can get away with it once....

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Because when I flip town he'll just continue to lie and you guys have believed him up to this point
My flip also will help him lie, trust me. My role info will just make people think I was lying or my results were tampered rather than hiplop scum at this point.
Dude's a godfather. Lynch him.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

It didn't go through.
I'm not a tracker.
I got that result sent to me as a message through Wgeurts.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I assume it's an amnesiac message, but if it is scum fucking with me, then scum have a way to send out false positives.
If that's the case, that may be the 'godfather' sort of role that the setup was alluding to.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

My whole reason for claiming investigative/tracker was to try to pull a kill to me overnight, so the lynch pool would look better for town
But with no lynch and people ready to string me up anyway, chances are I'll make it through the night regardless.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Oh, and, of course, to make scum think that lynching me would remove an investigative from the game, so I'd be protecting the person who sent me the results regardless.

P-EDIT: Yeah.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

It was a kinda shitty gambit, but the whole thing hinged on hiplop flipping scum today and me drawing the kill tonight
Since none of that happened, it's pretty null and void.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

A lynch on me would just have people be like, "Fucking liar Varsoon/EAP" and that's okay, too.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I honestly think, at this point, having this info out is better than gambiting/lying/concealing it.
Even if it does inform the kill :/

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Ayyy
how'about that.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

VOTE: Hiplop

AM: Persivul

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Any reason why Firebringer is in the Votecount twice and our numbers to lynch are 10 rather than 9?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

MOD: Is the votecount correct in reflecting that Firebringer now occupies two slots?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

@Firebringer: Does you having two votes inflate the votes needed to lynch someone?
Because if it does, then you having two votes is null but if it doesn't, then you're probably town based on role spec alone :l

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Does your extra vote inflate the votes needed to lynch as reflected in the votecount?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Zakk is right, though. We need to get claims on the table. With a no-kill, that means we have at least a confirmed town or scum.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I want that Hiplop lynch. I have extremely good reason to believe Hiplop is scum.

Notably, this was my other crumb towards the result I got on Hiplop.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

If lane's commute is the only claimed protective action, lane is conf-town.
This is why a massclaim is important today.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Oh, I thought by 'other' night, you meant last night. :/
Shit then.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

A no-kill gambit is always possible, but No-Kill gambits are almost always accompanied by a singular power-grabbing 'protective'/town-clearing claim.
Since no one really rushed into this day to claim why there'd be no kill and drive the effective lynch of the day, I don't think this was a scum gambit and I'm willing to say it's more likely that the kill just failed.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

@Hiplop: And I have a guilty on you, Godfather. We've been over this.
No shit you're going to 1v1 me.

Your fear of a mass-claim is scum as fuck though.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Hiplop doesn't even want to see if we can confirm/clear people.
Dude just wants to lie his way out of being lynched today.
Best to at least trade 1 for 1.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

godfather like ability that is likely a late-game thing

holy fuck

Where are you pulling this from?

he lied

that is a guilty

lynch him.

im prodging until hes lynched

Okay, so you don't have a guilty on me; so you're lying to town to try to get me lynched.
I had some doubt about my result; I thought maybe I was sent a wrong result on purpose or some similar false-negative might be going on, but the way you're responding is so anti-town and confrontational that I'm pretty sure I just caught you and you're mad that you couldn't coast on a cop innocent.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I'd be pissed too if I was Godfather, played poorly on purpose at day-end to draw an investigative, forced a mislynch, then couldn't coast on the cop-false-positive on myself.

You're caught.
Give up and give in.
Don't self-vote and deprive town of the mutations, kthx?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Also, if everyone massclaimed truthfully, then whoever sent the results to me would be revealed (unless scum sent it), so your resistance to the mass-claim is soft evidence that I'm right and you're trying to end the day quick on a lynch on me.

So yeah die already

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Probably going to lynch EAP, to be honest.

Just give Hiplop the win then.
I've spent all this time working on this game, explaining how Hiplop is scum here.
All Hiplop has done is drag me through the dirt and refuse to engage with the game otherwise.
If you're going to reward Hiplop for that shit and lynch me right now, I'm just going to straight up quit mafia for awhile.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Like I can't handle that shit.
This is far too stressful.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

You realize that if you're town, then a massclaim would clear you, right?

I can't even right now

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Like how is Town!Hiplop against a Massclaim right now I have no idea.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

You're going to have to explain how the massclaim helps scum here, Hiplop.
I'm not seeing it.

Or are you just saying that shit because I want a massclaim and you're scumreading me?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

It's nuts
My two biggest scumreads want my blood
who would've thought
It's almost as if

I was right

[Edgar Allan Pro]

VOTE: Hiplop

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I'll miss you, wgeurts. The game has been very well written and exciting so far.

Did anyone else receive a tracker result last night or is that wishful thinking?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I'm down for a massclaim, but I highly expect one of the scum team will have a fake-claim that will be safe to cover the fact they gave me false results via mod PM.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Also, Zakk, if you're town, then you voting me means that we lose the game the second the whole scumteam is online at the same time.
Unvote unless you want to lose the game or unless you're scumclaiming.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

You got blocked?

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Also, it's pretty clear we should've mass-claimed yesterday.
A massclaim yesterday would've made it clear that the false-info message was a scum-sided ability
which would've cleared Hiplop
so I seriously don't get why Hiplop was against it.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

Uhhh, Zakk, Icerint was bulletproof.

[Edgar Allan Pro]

I think if you both were town BP, it'd be more likely that scum have a Strongman, right?