New York 194: Guns N' Roses Mafia! (Day 8)

[Ozgin]

VOTE: pisskop

Because I missed you, bby. <|3

[Ozgin]

Ne'er once did I claim to be the Wizard of Ozgin, you name-ist.

[Ozgin]

we arent townreading people for rvsing like they did that one time at band camp.


o/ oz!
o/ frag

you guys should see how awesome and town i am here, right?

Yeah, I see it now. My b, homie.

VOTE: jam

@jam

We love you, never forget that. This will make you stronker. Not stronger, stronk-er.

[Ozgin]

You ever go to classes, then to work, then come home and get hammered, and then wake up with an awful head cold, and look at the mafia game you're in, and see the game went from like 3 or 4 pages to like 8 pages, and those 4-5 pages were just two people arguing about being defensive, one person shitposting, and like three or four people chiming in from the fray (or at least that's what my sick mind clung to), and like you ISO like two or three people together to observe an argument, and you think someone is playing very similarly to how you played scum literally every game in the past?

Yeah, that's my morning so far. VOTE: N e s s.

I think Ness plays like how I play scum, quoting and attempting to refute literally every post thrown at him. The whole talk about defensiveness is kinda stupid, but it also rings true that most nervous scum see scum reads on them or even statements made loosely against them to be excessively detrimental to their success. In other words, N e s s is probably going to quote me, say why he thinks I'm wrong, and that's his way of defending himself when he really never had too much pressure on him to begin with.

Also, all of the talk about "meritable day 1" (I think the word credible is more fitting in this instance) is

bullshit.

Every day

is "meritable."

Every post

is "meritable."

Every fucking argument in a post

is "meritable." You're on a forum, playing a forum game where you get information by

writing posts to each other

. It doesn't matter if you wrote the post "two irl days" into the game, it doesn't matter if you wrote the post "on the first in game day," it just doesn't matter, every post reveals information about every player, every time. Even though Golden Robster is just shitposting, for example, you can argue that the shitposting is just an earnest effort to move pressure around the player pool, or that the shitposting can come in handy later if they randomly stop doing it or if they do it the entire game. All posts, sooner or later, tell us something about a player. If anything, it at least shows us how a player plays the game, and meta albeit, that's information.

/end rant

[Ozgin]

Ozgin, are you implying that a town Ness shouldn't reply to your post? I mean, I sense defensiveness in his tone but the simple fact that he replies to things directed at him being considered scummy feels off.

No, I understand replying to things directed at him. But the way he blew up over it (he never had any real pressure on him, but he still reacted to every post against him with great offense) is what makes him scummy. A town Ness shouldn't attack/take offense to every post thrown at him the way he does.

Now if he were to respond to my post, that would make sense, because now I am literally accusing him of playing bad/anti-town. Now is the time to actually try to reply and refute me. He does a lot of "refuting" points that aren't even strong against him, and his idea of "refuting" is to get into a war over it. It just rubbed me the wrong way, and his defensiveness (in my opinion) is entirely too strong on all fronts.

[Ozgin]

Wow, that replace-out is actually fairly annoying.


How are you today, Reubus?

[Ozgin]

Am back, sorry, long weekend

[Ozgin]

Reading now, sorry Aero <3

[Ozgin]

Oh wow, okay, this game got weird fast.

Spoiler: Creature

So at first I was confused as to why this was the leading wagon, so I assumed it was just some Day 1 pressure being thrown around. And then I read the ISO of Creature, and oo boy.

In 433, Creature says "Two stones, one scum" and votes for Drixx, which is some strange cryptic thing that has no apparent meaning.

Then he gets pissy when Drixx basically says his vote was bullshit, and he

immediately

turns tail and scum reads SirCakez in the

next post

. Lo and behold, he moves his vote to SirCakez a few posts later, with the apparent reason of two quotes, one of which being his own.

Not really building a case against SirCakez, edits one of his quotes as a "joke," and just kinda makes some lazy comments about SirCakez just being scum, as if he's just sitting there watching him be scum and nobody is doing anything about it.

He makes the claim that Kop's vote on him seemed opportunistic, although Kop was the second person on his wagon, and stayed on until now.

3/5 of his scumreads are on his wagon, just lol.

He finally gives us an explanation of that cryptic two stones one scum line, and honestly I'm even more confused than I was when he said the line in the first place. Even worse in this post he claims Drixx has been pretending to claim survivor, but I don't see that anywhere in this game, aside from a joke that some player made to Drixx.

This post, where he outlines a case against KAAG, made me cringe a little bit. Or a lot of bit. Now I'm not going to go out of my way to shoot down his arguments against another player, but a lot of them read to me like this:

KAAG in a post:

You lied, I didn't do _______ at all.

Creature's response:

Yeah-huh.

KAAG in a post:

You did this scummy thing.

Creature:

Nuh-huh, I just didn't know what was going on!

etc., And so forth.

Now rather than link to his 500, I'm going to break this down, because his response (to Egg making a case that his nervousness early game seems to be from him being a scum, and being nervous about playing scum) just does

not

make sense:

I'll just admit: I feel the same nervousness when I am town too. I have difficulty to make a good post initially and I don't accept being mislynched D1. If you want to lynch me, at least you'll learn this is my typical town play. Take my reads seriously, they're not detailed as you would expect, but it's already an idea.

Let's take this one step at a time.

I'll just admit: I feel the same nervousness when I am town too.

"Nuh-huh! What you think is a scum read is really just my town play!" And even if you don't agree with me when I think that's what this sentence sounds like, just the way this sentence is structured is weird. Just admitting something? As if it's a confession? It's just a weird and awkward defense.

I have difficulty to make a good post initially and

I don't accept being mislynched D1.

If you want to lynch me,

at least you'll learn this is my typical town play.

Is it just me or does this literally say, "I really don't like to be mislynched, but if you do then oh well, at least we all learn something!"? I mean, not only is that an obvious sentiment (because nobody likes being mislynched), but it's flat out contradictory. Especially when you consider his 429, where he even points out the upside to being lynched as adding to his meta (and note he says lynched and not mislynched). Make up your mind: Do you want to be alive and not "mislynched," or do you not care if you die for the sake of adding to your meta?

Take my reads seriously, they're not detailed as you would expect, but it's already an idea.

I honestly couldn't tell you what this meant if you paid me. Is this just an excuse for lazy scumhunting? Or lackluster posting? Why say to take your reads seriously rather than building better, and real cases on them?

And how am I supposed to take your reads seriously? You only build ONE real case against any player (KAAG), and you're not even voting for them. Instead, your voting for your other scumread, who you need to elaborate more on, or make a case against.

VOTE: Creature

Now that we have that out of the way, I wanna read more on iraon, but I have to do things for a little while this afternoon, I'll come back later and check out their ISO.

[Ozgin]

prodge - I'm sorry about my unavailability, I will make an honest effort to read up on iraon (like I had intended a few days ago) today/tonight. I'll also look at Reubis/N e s s as well (more Reubis) if I have time. I like how my Creature case went unnoticed

[Ozgin]

Sorry, it's Springfest weekend on my campus, and it's an excuse for us all to be wasted constantly. But I gotchu fams.

Spoiler: iraonavp

So I'm all the way down to post 315 in ira's ISO when I find something worth commenting on, everything before now was pretty null, nothing much to be said. In this 315, however, I dislike the "defense" iraon presents for himself (literally just saying, "Nah, that's a lie"), and I also disagree with you saying that you simply "asked Mafiaturtle a question," because you definitely were calling them out, at least a little.

318 doesn't seem to make too much sense, why get to "Do you think I'm scum-aligned" from "shut up." I just don't understand the dissonance here? Like it's a really passive-aggressive defense for no reason.

Your reaction to pisskop's vote was just really really really bad. I mean, if this is a standard reaction test, you fail for the semester and have to drop out. Like, real bad.

Lol @ this fucking post (323) this is all I can think about:



In 405 you bring up policy lynching any survivor claims, when you're the one who (albeit jokingly) made up the "quintuple dayvig survivor" claim a few posts earlier. What are you doing, setting some kind of trap?

In 513 he votes a no-lynch. Just no. Then in 547 you change it to a vote on "yes-lynch," which is equally as stupid.

I like how in 610 you even admit that your no-lynch vote wasn't a reaction test, but rather a stupid prodge.

Spends the next like 5 posts just throwing around "this is town" and "this is scum" to people he likes/dislikes, no apparent reasoning. Just quoting someone and judging them on that one post.

700 is basically OMGUS, where ira just kinda goes, "Wah, that's not fair, leave me alone doo-doo head!"

Posts 708-710 are just bad, in fact, most of what I've seen of iraon reacting to SirCakez has just been a real bad breakdown almost.

After that terribad interaction with SirCakez, iraon immediately just turns 180 and goes back to calling out Drixx, which I find interesting.

What I find interesting in 844 is that he says he is not vanilla town,

"or any other vanilla,"

which would imply that he's not excluding the possibility of him being not-town aligned. This also makes me think of various places throughout his ISO where he uses the terms "town-aligned" and "scum-aligned," disregarding anything in between (third party or otherwise), and he never claims himself to be "town-aligned," so it makes me think that maybe we have a serial killer or some other weird third party role on our hands here.

With all said and done, I'm a tad apprehensive to vote for iraon on the chance that his PR claim is true and he's town-aligned after all. It doesn't excuse his play, though, so we'll have to see how this plays out.

That was a doozie. Alright, next:

Spoiler: Reubis

This is a tiny ISO, and so for what it's worth I found

N e s s

to be a rather scummy player, but I'll try not to factor that in too much.

392 is null.

511 - Apparently we've his undivided attention. Kay...

"How do I even mafia?" says he.

"How do I even read?" says he.

In 531 he backpedals from reading the game to reading every individual player, as if he meant that he had to develop a read on every individual player when he said "reading 21 pages" was going to be difficult.

In 533 he at least asks -some- questions, probably feigning curiosity for the sake of seeming interested.

In 675 just actively admits to being both VT and disinterested in this game.

On that note the next like two posts don't really matter, Reubis is just disinterested and is not going to put forth effort and has already soft-claimed VT. I don't see the point in waiting for a claim, and we're running out of time.

With these cases considered I feel pretty comfortable

holding intent to hammer

in the next few hours.

[Ozgin]

When you say roommate, are you saying you were his neighbor?

Also,

@Aero - what exactly is a friendly neighbor/what exactly does a friendly neighbor do?

Like as a role, with the JOAT, what is it? Did he have the ability to become someones neighbor for one night?

[Ozgin]

Yeah SnarkySnowman, didn't you get the memo? You can't make reads or scumhunt until day 5, it's all RVS until then.

[Ozgin]

I don't think GuyFawkes' hammer was scum; I was about to hammer anyways, Reubus gave 0 shits about this game, the day was going nowhere, and we were low on time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ozgin]

@Slandaar - Give me one sentence why I should vote Aristophanes, or was it just post-RVS-post-Day1-Post-Night1-RVS? Because, you know, that's apparently a thing.

[Ozgin]

prodge until tomorrow evening, I am dead

[Ozgin]

@Slandaar - Give me one sentence why I should vote Aristophanes

Here is the funny thing about this sentence.

It is the first time he has actually tried to engage someone instead of just ISOing the person in question.

Coincidence perhaps.

It's almost like every time I've made a case against someone, it's after I prodge and am not around for days at a time because I'm a lazy shitsack, and just forcing an interaction with someone to try to discern whether or not they're scummy is harder than just ISOing them and not liking their posts. Woah!

Anyways, I still like Ira for scum, and yes, I'm going to ISO Fragger and then Drixx, but I'll probably only do Fragger for now because ISOing people, while it is more direct and effective and it makes more sense to judge someone based on their history rather than a few interactions with someone, is time consuming, and takes at least half an hour to try to build a case against someone. Pity.

tl;dr - I'm lazy and ISOing people is easier for me to scumhunt rather than trying to force some interaction, and, to nobody's surprise, my next plan of action is to ISO Fragger.

[Ozgin]

Spoiler: Fragger

At post 58 and I already feel some type of way - Unvoting in RVS is kinda pointless, and typically it's an overly-careful move that scum take to try not to seem aggressive.

59 and 65 also give me bad vibes. They're really overly-analytical and overly-thought for RVS. I don't know if Fragger is always the kind of player to take every step of the game seriously, but the fact that he acknowledges the existence of RVS in his 65 and then still proceeds to read super deep into it just kind of makes me feel weird.

102 is another post where I feel like Fragger is being too analytical, but at the same time it's kind of hand wavey and sloppy. He goes as far as to say that Story and SirCakez "could easily be opportunistic scum jumping at something as simple as a reaction test," but this comes immediately after the classic, "oh yeah my day 1 play is bad haha whoops!" kind of bullshit.

129 Is Fragger responding to getting called out for wishy washy responses with a wishy washy response.

He votes for ira a little later, which I like, but it looks like his reasoning is... a counting error? A bit of OMGUS? And some blanket statements about ira's posts lacking substance? I mean, come on.

Post 275 is another post that kinda pops out at me. It's just a mechanical list of questions directed at Performer. The thing is, I noticed (and I double checked) but by this point there was no "jam wagon" (the first question he asked Performer) as of the VC in post 250, so why is that still a thing? And why did Fragger ask Performer about Perf's read on Frag? Then he seeks validation in his own scumreads with his next question, and then asks a shitty general question, which is as useless as, "what do you think about the game?" One of the five questions Fragger asked Performer made sense/were good questions to ask.

This post made me, at 4:30am in my dorm bed, audibly exclaim, "What?" within the first like, two fucking lines. This is apparently when he realized that jam is probably "newb town and not newb scum", but I'm pretty sure Fragger was never with the jam wagon, and in fact used it's existence as a weapon against iraon just about a dozen or so posts prior to this one in his ISO. I also like that Fragger starts by listing off his reads for town (or at least townleans, whatever), then makes some shitty blanket "everyone is lurking or inactive and the game is kinda big so lol you're all null," AND THEN GOES ON TO NAME 'NOTABLE NULLS.' What. The. Fuck. Is. A. Notable. Null. Seriously, the word null implies nothing, empty, neutral, default, etc. How can you be notably neutral? Notably empty? Notably default? I don't know if it's just because it's 4:30 in the morning or what, but this post really fucking threw me off. I can't even identify a motivation behind not listing any scum reads, either, while I'm pretty sure his vote was resting on iraon by this point still.

Four posts later in his ISO, but 200 in-game posts later, Fragger does the same shit as last posts. Makes a few town leans, declares most other people null, and goes about his life. Even people he started to say had bad play (which by the way he very adamantly avoided any negative or offensive language when describing these people) he reduced from "early skepticism" to pretty much null or "I want to believe they're town!" It's now that I'm realizing there is a lot of wishy-washy shit happening with these reads in this ISO. I'm starting to understand a Fraggernaut lynch more and more as I read.

Short intermission IRL at this moment to collect my thoughts and take a drink, I feel like I'm getting kinda hostile at this point, but it's a long ISO that I'm reading at the end of a long day.

Okay, back. Reading on.

621 - Oh boy, a scum read! It's a shame it came with little-to-no-reasoning, and it's another shame that Fragger has been clinging to this scumread since like, post 100 lol.

In 633 Fragger calls out Slandaar for not reevaluating people. I was totally gonna call him out for not reevaluating Ira, but thankfully he calls himself out for it, but it's okay apparently because he's supposedly "reevaluated other people," and then he goes on to use some meta argument for why Slandaar is wrong, but hey ho, earlier on (238) he claims he doesn't like using meta. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

803 - Acknowledges that ira is probably a PR, or at least has the claim.
810 - Still vehemently only has one shitty old scumread on ira.

I know he did NOT just call another player wishy-washy. Ooooo lawd give me strength.

822, 826, and 827 (don't feel like linking all of them) are just him backpedaling to cover up both of what I just caught in post 803 and 810, and what Ira called out in his 815. Neat!

830 is some shitty little self-appearance worry amidst Fragger being barraged with questions about his shitty inability to acknowledge the fact that ira might be a pr, and he's still clinging to a scumread on ira for no apparent good reason.

831, 834, and 836 (again not linking all these) seem like conveniently-placed distractions for himself and everyone else regarding the whole scumreading someone he just acknowledged might be a PR thing. Hehe, whoops, I wonder if he's just gonna play that off...

Oh wait, in 842 he literally goes to an almost cartoonish, "What? PRs? Who's talking about PRs anyhow?" HE LITERALLY IS TRYING TO PLAY IT OFF.

Even still, after now supposedly understanding the whole confusion/conflict over the post where he wants someone to vig a PR, yadda yadda, he still wants ira.

1025 "My ira scumread was explained in detail on day 1!" Huh, remember when he accused someone of never revising their opinions? Oh yeah, let me also point out to you that his detailed scumread was a post in the mid-100s of day 1, like 150 something. But okay, bud, you sure got 'em.

I like how in 1042 he defends himself, very lazily, with more meta.

Hey, he stole my style of case making. Cut that shit out, I patented this. {This post doesn't contribute to my read of Fragger, I just kinda chuckled at this thought and wanted to share it.}

1070 "I have changed my reads!" Meanwhile everyone except for ira seem to be either town or null.

All in all, I learned two things from this ISO.

1) Iraon is probably not scum (and if he's bluffing, he's certainly not worth risking a kill today).
2) Fragger has been perpetually going in circles, being wishy-washy, backpedaling, and having double-standards for everyone else but himself, and this was honestly the most scummy ISO I have read yet.

VOTE: Fragger

I will probably ISO Drixx tomorrow, but fuck me if I'm going to wake up before 2pm. It's now almost 5:15, and it took me over an hour to do that ISO, and doing these ISOs with people who have a lot of posts takes a hella long time, but at least I now have a base opinion of Fragger to work off of (if we don't kill him today) moving forwards.

[Ozgin]

Ozgin that whole wall to say so much but not actually say anything of real substance .

More hand-wavey wishy-washy responses from Fragger.

I'm probably not going to have time to ISO dive Drixx tonight, in all honesty. If I do, it'll be another 3-4am sitting.

[Ozgin]

It's almost like every time I've made a case against someone, it's after I prodge and am not around for days at a time because I'm a lazy shitsack, and just forcing an interaction with someone to try to discern whether or not they're scummy is harder than just ISOing them and not liking their posts. Woah!

Everytime you are not around for days at a time because you are a lazy shitsack you return and just happen to think the latest wagon is scum and have a huge case on them! Woah!

Anyways, I still like Ira for scum, and yes, I'm going to ISO Fragger and then Drixx, but I'll probably only do Fragger for now because ISOing people, while it is more direct and effective and it makes more sense to judge someone based on their history rather than a few interactions with someone, is time consuming,

and takes at least half an hour to try to build a case against someone

. Pity.

Why are you trying to build cases against players Ozgin? Ozgin

You know. If you were town you could just read their ISO see if you suspect them and then vote a case is not required. Your cases are not having any effect on anything.

tl;dr - I'm lazy and ISOing people is easier for me to scumhunt rather than trying to force some interaction, and, to nobody's surprise, my next plan of action is to ISO Fragger.

No don't do that.

I would like to see an ISO on killthestory. Will you do that for me?

Mobile post - yeah, I'll do an ISO of killthestory, I wanna do a Drixx ISO first.

As far as building a case for everyone, I do have to do that, at least for me, because I don't like votes without explicit reason beyond, "they're scum, read their ISO."

Innocent until proven guilty, if I try to prove someone guilty and it falls apart, then they are probably innocent. It works, I'm telling you.

[Ozgin]

Spoiler: killthestory

So I'm down to 314 in this ISO already and all I see is a lot of light shitposting, but posts like 110-112 and 108 before this point are sarcastic and sassy but they're still accurate. I'm pretty content with this ISO so far.

429 is a naked vote with no reasoning, not even loosely discernible from the context surrounding the posts. This is different than some of his previous votes, that either came with a quote (implying some reason) or at least made sense with the context surrounding the vote (usually the previous 2-5 posts or so). People were talking about SirCakez a little before this vote on him, but opinions were tossed and nothing was really brought up against him. This just strikes me as weird.

714 is a kinda dickish post. I mean, this was in response to what I assume is Ira's 713 (the post immediately before kts's), but ira was actually making a decent point about being active, even as a replacement, rather than just trying to back out of putting in effort and blaming the fact that you have a lot to catch up on. Was this supposed to be a defense of Drixx, then? Because that's who iraon's 713 was aimed at. This is just strangely abrasive, especially against a valid point against Drixx.

786 - No, stop that. Even when we're going for a shitty last-minute lynch on an apathetic player, quick hammering is bad, there's no town motivation in rushing a lynch, regardless of how stupid you think it is.

829 is blatantly useless. Indirect ad hominem attacks benefit nobody.

890 made me deja vu back to 786, I actually fucking refreshed my ISO page on this stupid and bad post.

This post made me think back to when a certain player said responding to posts with memes was defensive, and furthermore scummy. Who said that again? Oh yeah.

Although in this post where he reuses the image, it actually kinda makes sense.

At least he can admit to playing like a shitlord, too.

All in all, despite a few discrepancies, I think KTS is actually a relatively townie player this game. A bit of an asshole, yeah, but it kinda reminds me of House or ABR's styles of being an ass, but being a correct ass.

I'm sorry, but I'm not doing the Drixx ISO for a little while yet. I have class at 1:30 but I might not go due to illness, I'll try to ISO Drixx before tomorrow, I still like Fragger for a lynch though.

[Ozgin]

I didn't like the way his reads changed from 1110 -> 1111. In particular it sounds like he intended to vote Fraggernaut and start reading me as town-aligned when he wrote 1110, and the case thing was perfunctory.

I'm actually a

little

offended that you called "the case thing...perfunctory." I sat up from like 4:30am to like 5:15am writing that, with a small break to drink some tea. I didn't copy/past like three dozen fucking url's into url tags to be 'perfunctory.'

[Ozgin]

Mod: V/LA for a few days - I'm sick, I can't talk/eat very much and I have classes and stuff so this is going to be a rough few days.

[Ozgin]

Mobile post - yeah, I'll do an ISO of killthestory, I wanna do a Drixx ISO first.

I look forward to it!

As far as building a case for everyone, I do have to do that, at least for me, because I don't like votes without explicit reason beyond, "they're scum, read their ISO."

OK that is fine but explain why you have a huge case with something like:

In 433, Creature says "Two stones, one scum" and votes for Drixx, which is some strange cryptic thing that has no apparent meaning.

How is this alignment indicative?

Innocent until proven guilty,

if I try to prove someone guilty

and it falls apart, then they are probably innocent. It works, I'm telling you.

Yes. I do get the impression you try to prove them guilty and when you can't they are innocent. Seems more like Guilty until proven innocent.

Before I go, though, a quick response - Saying weird, cryptic bullshit like "Two birds one stone" early in Day 1 serves no purpose to confuse and distract people, and it derails town thought and reads. Furthermore, I wouldn't put it past a scum player to say something really weird and then later claim it was a soft claim or a crumb, or something equally bullshit. Like, "Oh yeah, I'm a Vengeful townie, if I die at night the scum who kill me also die! Get it? Two stones one scum?", etc.

And I go into the ISO assuming they're innocent. I read until I find something that starts to sway me to believe otherwise. After enough contradictory posts/bad posts/scummy posts/things that don't make me thing someone is innocent, they are no longer considered innocent to me.

[Ozgin]

VLA end "officially" today but I don't feel up-to-par yet so I probably will only keep up with reading and light posting.

I still think Fragger is a good vote, given my case on him that he totally just blew off with the wave of a hand. One day I'll read Drixx's ISO.

One day.

[Ozgin]

Ozgin...

So I'm down to 314 in this ISO already and all I see is a lot of light shitposting, but posts like 110-112 and 108 before this point are sarcastic and sassy but they're still accurate. I'm pretty content with this ISO so far.

OK.

why are so defensive? clearly that was just a reaction test and joke post that i was making?

however now youre responding to me with memes? dont you realize how defensive that is?

great job you figured it out i'm José the taco vendor

how great job admitting your scum, what are you abilities? what do your tacos do specifically scum?

This is an accurate post? how exactly was it accurate?

happiness is a scumtell

Same as above. How is this accurate? You actually think Happiness is a scumtell?

Read those two posts together with the context of the posts around them. KTS is being super sarcastic, but what he's doing is good: He's calling someone out for claiming something non-town (even though the claim was also sarcastic, claiming Jose' the taco vendor). The Happiness is a scumtell thing was very clearly a joke in response to the post that said "My tacos will give people happiness" or something like that. KTS does a lot of posting where he kinda just replies to stuff, and you have to read the surrounding posts to gain the context.

429 is a naked vote with no reasoning, not even loosely discernible from the context surrounding the posts. This is different than some of his previous votes, that either came with a quote (implying some reason) or at least made sense with the context surrounding the vote (usually the previous 2-5 posts or so). People were talking about SirCakez a little before this vote on him, but opinions were tossed and nothing was really brought up against him. This just strikes me as weird.

Don't care for this paragraph basically says nothing.

I just wanted to make note of the fact that it was a weird naked vote. It doesn't fit with his other votes. If, theoretically, SirCakez was scum, I think it would be a worthwhile thing to remember that one time when kts randomly voted for him, and could raise questions.

714 is a kinda dickish post. I mean, this was in response to what I assume is Ira's 713 (the post immediately before kts's), but ira was actually making a decent point about being active, even as a replacement, rather than just trying to back out of putting in effort and blaming the fact that you have a lot to catch up on. Was this supposed to be a defense of Drixx, then? Because that's who iraon's 713 was aimed at. This is just strangely abrasive, especially against a valid point against Drixx.

The whole sequence not just responding to the one post I would assume.

Even so, ira wasn't wrong in that sequence at all. It was pretty uncalled-for and harsh.

786 - No, stop that. Even when we're going for a shitty last-minute lynch on an apathetic player, quick hammering is bad, there's no town motivation in rushing a lynch, regardless of how stupid you think it is.

Nothing here.

I was saying that quick hammering is anti-town.

829 is blatantly useless. Indirect ad hominem attacks benefit nobody.

Annoying not scummy is worth a note.

890 made me deja vu back to 786, I actually fucking refreshed my ISO page on this stupid and bad post.

Same as previous.

I would have to disagree with you - ad hominem attacks are more than just annoying. Attacking someone and not their arguments when you can't win a debate clearly indicates that you're wrong, which is why I called out the ad hominem attack. The deja-vu also is worth noting that it was tied to the quick-hammering post, which is still anti-town.

This post made me think back to when a certain player said responding to posts with memes was defensive, and furthermore scummy. Who said that again? Oh yeah.

Although in this post where he reuses the image, it actually kinda makes sense.

Different scenarios. But - you didn't seem to want to say that you find this contradictory?

Yes, they are contradictory. That's why I pointed it out. The second time it was used, though, it made sense to use it, and it wasn't as contradictory the second time because kts didn't have anything to defend.

At least he can admit to playing like a shitlord, too.

Eh Nothing here.

All in all, despite a few discrepancies, I think KTS is actually a relatively townie player this game. A bit of an asshole, yeah, but it kinda reminds me of House or ABR's styles of being an ass, but being a correct ass.

What is he correct about?

Killthestory is correct in the way he approaches the game. He's sarcastic a lot, and is kind of an asshole, but when he calls people out or says something it's not usually wrong/scummy.

Really have no idea how your conclusion ended up as 'relatively townie' with the comments you made it kind of makes the comments pointless?

The comments were parts of the ISO I didn't like, but just because I don't like some parts of the ISO doesn't mean they're not town.

[Ozgin]

Prodge and sick post, I feel like shit that got steamrolled and dried into frisbees that got thrown and shot at like skeet shooting discs. That being said, I have read up the last few pages and I'll make a reads list (since that's what the cool kids are doing).

It's just gonna have to wait til later because my Friday's are hell :^).

/mobile post

[Ozgin]

I'll need a few hours today to post, but if I'm not around in the next like 6 hours then I probably won't post again until tomorrow. Fuck these weekends

[Ozgin]

@Mod - Another VLA for a few days - Turns out I'm sicker than I thought. Might be strep, I dunno. I've been spitting blood and haven't been able to swallow comfortably for a whole week now.

[Ozgin]

Update - I'm doing better, I don't have Mono luckily enough, just Strep Throat. The antibiotics are working wonders

Can we get a VC? I'll try to read Aristo's and Snarky's ISOs amidst all of this extra work I have piled up.

[Ozgin]

VOTE: Fragger

Is this finally happening? It's the only solid read I have, but I have 2 days of classes left so I plan on spending a decent amount of time on Wednesday putting together a real readslist, now that I -pretty much- survived my plague, just in time for finals week.

[Ozgin]

So I'm still busy studying for finals, totally on the edge of failing like 3 classes, and I don't have time for this game. I got a little ahead of myself, and I thought I would have more time.

@Mod - I'm either gonna need another week (until next Tuesday) to finish this semester in it's entirety, or you can replace me. Just PM me, we can work this out either way. Between my physical and mental health failing me in the recent weeks, and this semester being ridiculously fucking hard for me, I was looking for a spare-time release sort of thing, and I thought I had the room to pace in some mafia. Total miscalculation on my part. <|3

[Ozgin]

...but for the record, I have read up the last few pages, and just holy fucking lol is Fragger badscum. Regardless of what comes of any of this, that's pretty much all I got to say so far lmao.

[Ozgin]

Finals are almost over, and since I'm being kept in this game I'm trying to keep up at least a little so I don't have to reread ~25 pages and get shit on when I finally do come back and get in this game.

From page 76 to now, I haven't developed many "new" reads for me. I'm willing to say Slandaar is most likely town, I actually have really admired his posts lately.

Fragger is still scum, and has had a scummy ISO for a while.

Ozigin in typical Ozgin fashion the entirety of this game placed a vote & disappeared.

Ha. Ha ha ha. Ha. Do not, and I mean, do

not

talk like you know my "fashion," or my play style at all. And do

not

try to front me for being busy. Yeah, my ISO is lacking in posts. But don't act like I shit out naked votes and fade out into obfuscation. Because you and I both know that's horse shit. I've put a decent amount of effort into each of my posts, because I can't afford to be super active right now, so I try to make up

quantity

with

quality

. You know, quality? That thing that 95% of your posts lack? Yeah, that.

Also, I'd like to note that Fragger has had similar defenses against my case against him and other players:

1222 literally just kinda says, "Meh, your case has no substance, so I'll ignore it."

1888 just calls all cases against him weak, saying they come from weak angles.

1934: Again, just calls S_S's case weak.

And his 1963 also dismisses S_S's case as weak. I didn't even include all of the posts where he does this in his ISO, because there's at least 2 or 3 other ones where he just call's S_S's case weak and he never really addresses it.

Oh, but don't worry guys, this case I'm bringing up against him now is just weak and lacking substance, I'm sure.

Aside from that, DrippingGoofball has lived up to her name (being a dripping goofball).
Iraon is town, simple enough. I like a lot of page 79 from him.

I really hate how he says I have no case just because I haven't done a quote wall.

'Tis okay, I tried that once and he dismissed me the same way.

Ozgin hasn't done anything all game and I would kill them 10/10 times.

Fucking

try

it. I don't want this "he hasn't done anything all game hnngghh" bullshit, because you conscientiously object to actually address how shitty your ISO really is. You're a literal shit factory of fake, pretentious posts and I'd bet my left nipple and my right leg that you're scum who's trying

real

hard not to look that way.

[Ozgin]

I wanna hear iraon's response to the claim and the result.