Open 627: Mexican Standoff [endgame]

[Aneninen]

VOTE: Mad King Ashnard

I bet everyone knows my reason for that.

[Aneninen]

VOTE: Mad King Ashnard
I bet everyone knows my reason for that.

I don't, what is it?

RadiantCowbells is in that hydra. We've been auto-RVS-ing each other whenever we meet.

14

kuroi -2 +3 =8 -11 =12 -==14 =39 -51 =77 | =51 =64
Aneninen R -4 ==6 -7 | =11 -14
Smudger ==3 +9 -10 | +14
acryon -3 v4 u119 R =31 | =11 =14
Persivul +=2 -10 R +316
pisskop -1 ==2 -13
plotinus = +1 +7 +8 -11 =12 +13 -=14 -443 | -577 -581 v626 =648
radiantcowbells =3 -5 -11 ✝

Need I ask anything?

VOTE: KOP
Because who really likes

c

Kops
Hello everyone, new to the forum, fairly new to the game but seen alot of videos on youtube. Exciteddddd!!

Newb-town.

Afraid wtf?? I am never afraid. I am here to find scum and we have a limited time to do it so let's move move move!!!
I don't like your OMGUS vote. And you called me scummy for being 'afraid' when I'm not afraid, so prepare to get dunked, scum!

Sounds fake.

VOTE: KainTrelpes
Let's get some wagons up in here. Major posturing by Kain in his last post.
~Titus

Do we have town-Titus or scum-Titus this time?

Or is the Blitz game different from the Mexican game

Okay, have you played Mafia on another forum or IRL before?

[Aneninen]

RadiantCowbells is in that hydra. We've been auto-RVS-ing each other whenever we meet.

Ooh in that case.
VOTE: Mad King Ashnard

Huh?

I am VERY aggressive in TOS, and I will do so here too, because that is the only way to catch evil players off guard and lynch them quickly. Quietness is not good which is why I want people to move

Okay.

Also your sucking up to Titus is disgusting, happy to vote you

On the other hand, it's strange that a player new to this site uses one of the heads's name instead of the Hydra-name.

I am not sucking up to Titus, I was responding to Aneninens post about her alignment.

And that conclusion was too fast.

How about you explain attacking someone for pushing their reads?

On Page3, at a phase many players haven't posted any content in. Mmhr?

VOTE: Burning Crystal
This one is serious.

So much for your townread on that slot. Wow.

VOTE: smugder

Too Long; Didn't Read.

67–68. Kop must be town. Direct meta.

I am VERY aggressive in TOS, and I will do so here too, because that is the only way to catch evil players off guard and lynch them quickly. Quietness is not good which is why I want people to move

Sure, aggression can be good. What's good about lynching people quickly?

Or he missed the Day Length. Although that happened earlier.

For what it's worth, Xtoxm is no stranger to naked votes. It may not be alignment indicative of him, just poor play.

So right now I have O scum reads but the only person who I semi believe is town is Xtoxm. He voted twice without any reasoning. I don't think mafia would boldly do that in fear of putting themselves out there. I know Kuro said he's done that in the pass. I am curious to know what his alignments were those times.

Not a good reason for townreading anyone, especially after the post above it.

He said "catch evil players off guard and lynch them quickly". Maybe you misread or maybe you are misrepping?

Which one is TOS?
Do they call scums "evil ones" there?

[Aneninen]

I remember Eagle from a recently finished game. Plenty of players wanted to lynch him because he'd had a kind of scummy attitude.
This attitude seems just as scummy, however, different to that one.
Either he's changed his gamestyle (I think he said so) or he's scum.

I don't know what to think.

Maybe he should be investigated if we have that one. Although, there may be a Godfather on the scum side.

[Aneninen]

Was just voting RC like I've done before in RVS. Familiar faces and all.

Okay.

Which one is TOS?
Do they call scums "evil ones" there?

I don't know what you're even talking about. What is TOS? And what does that have to do with anything? This reads like you are playing dumb.

TOS was mentioned by KainTepes and I don't know anything about it. I had reasons for that question.

I have played mafia a lot on TOS but this one here is my first game

[Aneninen]

Oh wait.
I forgot to respond to this:

14

kuroi -2 +3 =8 -11 =12 -==14 =39 -51 =77 | =51 =64
Aneninen R -4 ==6 -7 | =11 -14
Smudger ==3 +9 -10 | +14
acryon -3 v4 u119 R =31 | =11 =14
Persivul +=2 -10 R +316
pisskop -1 ==2 -13
plotinus = +1 +7 +8 -11 =12 +13 -=14 -443 | -577 -581 v626 =648
radiantcowbells =3 -5 -11 ✝

My answer must be this:

Playerlist

1. Aneninen – Alkari Entropy
   
2. xtoxm – Ethylene Banana
   
3. Burning Crystal – Chenjesu Discussion
   
4. Kop – Coffeetje Fertility
   
5. Extrapolated Eagle – Juxtapose Experiment
   
6. smudger – Cornelius Immunity
   
7. davesaz – Dazed and Hemlock
   
8. Persivul – Eki-Eki Raspberry
   
9. acryon – Mythical Okaleaf
   
10. TOWNIE247 – Guidebooked Muffin
    
11. KainTepes – Lasombra Agitator
    
12. Mad King Ashnard – Mrrshan Decontamination
    
13. KuroiXHF – Technocratic Sleepover

[Aneninen]

Ok that makes more sense. Do you think that they would need to call scum evil ones over there? Isn't it clear that evil ones means scum in that context? Do you think Persivul purposefully misrepped?

That "evil one" or what he said sounded weird, that'swhy I'm curious.
If you mean his 76, I don't know. KainTepes might be used to shorter Day lengthes or other mechanics – but, as far as I remember it had been made clear before the post Persivul responded how long a Day here is.

[Aneninen]

It was me.
I thought it might be a kind of association tell, because it was odd from a newer player to name a hydra head instead of the hydra itself.
But, it's clearly not a tell.
If it were, you'd have to know Titus's gender right.
Titus is she, not he.

[Aneninen]

This really confuses me. I have no idea what any of this is.

I'll tell you as soon as the Mad King hydra explains their one.

WHY IS EVERYONE SO QUIET IN THIS GAME NOW???

So as to leave room for you.
Audio mastering 101.

Kuroi what is the list you posted??? What is Lasombra Agitator??? VERY CONFUSING EXPLAIN PLEASE!!

Again, it was me, not Kuroi.
Although I must admit I was wrong about you.
You're not Lasombra Agitator.
You're Thraddash Vociferator.

BECAUSE I AM A VERY AGGRESSIVE PLAYER!!!!

Do you need a pigeon?

WHY DO I KEEP ACCIDENTALLY QUOTING XTOXM???

Yes, also didn't like the reason for voting EE..I don't know why two of you have sheeped it. EE has been one of the better posters so far.

I don't know. It must be a kind of virus.

[Aneninen]

What is Lasombra Agitator??
What is Thraddash Vociferator??
EXPLAIN PLEASE THANKS

Yes, also didn't like the reason for voting EE..I don't know why two of you have sheeped it. EE has been one of the better posters so far.

Either google them or from now on, I'll call you Clotilde.

Post-edit.
Oh no, not that Xtoxm quote again!
I don't get it, I'm sure that I used the Reply button instead of the Quick Reply field.

[Aneninen]

Yes, also didn't like the reason for voting EE..I don't know why two of you have sheeped it. EE has been one of the better posters so far.

Okay, KainLasombraThraddashTepesClotilde, I stop kidding.

You're quoting it because you accidentally pressed the Q+ button beside Xtoxm's post. It mush show "Q–' now. Press it again, and it's solved.
Also, use the Reply button instead of the QuickReply field. There, you can Preview your posts with the corresponding button.

By the way, I don't think KainThraddashClotilde is scum. Mostly because of our recent interaction.

[Aneninen]

I never said any of this.

You needn't worry. Whatever I post he seems to think it was written by someone else.

Oh, I've almost forgotten this:

Yes, also didn't like the reason for voting EE..I don't know why two of you have sheeped it. EE has been one of the better posters so far.

[Aneninen]

Yes, also didn't like the reason for voting EE..I don't know why two of you have sheeped it. EE has been one of the better posters so far.

It worked!!

Not really.
(1) Go to post #86, the one was written by Xtoxm.
(2) To the right, you can see an exclamation mark, a "Quote", and a Q button.
(3) If the latest one is "Q–", click on it. Now it says "Q+". It is done.
(4) If it's still not working, close the page in your Browser and open a new one.
(5) If there's still no change, restart your Browser.
(6) Or Logout and Login again.
(7) Or Clotilde.

[Aneninen]

OFF

I hate Ebony.. but I cant put it down.. bastard!

I'm glad whenever I hear something like that. It makes me motivated to finish the next part. (Actually the new Levels are almost done...)

Why you talk like Hades is fucking a tornado?

Please, do not offend any of the Ancient Gods.
Thanks.

ON

...well at least we cured the "no one talking" part of Day One.

Seems so. ^_^

Why you talk like .................... ?

So why am I Clotide???

Do you have a special PR like "respond to someone else when Aneninen posts something ten times and you win" ?
You doesn't seem to want to be Thraddash. So, you must be Clotilde.

I am reading old posts, suddenly I realize it is so scummy that Extrapolatod thought Burning Crystal was town and SUDDNELY thinks he is scum, very suspicious...!! But Extrapolated is aggressive and post a lot of posts!! In TOS scum are always the people who don't post at all, so maybe Extrapolated is Town...

Why is nobody here??

You still haven't answered what TOS is, but on MafiaScum Days usually last for 14 Real Life Days. Games are usually long and it's not uncommon if noone posts for hours.
Your reasoning may make sense on TOS (whatever it is), but things are very different here. Post amount, in itself is not a strong tell, if it's a tell at all. (I don't think so.) Some scums are indeed lurking, but others are picking up fights vehemently and often.
Although I still found that shift from Eagle strange, it's not a big thing on Early-Day1.

And PLEASE, turn that quote off!

Use the same method you used before.
I really, REALLY don't want to see that again.

Or change it to something new. For example, this one:

Yes, also didn't like the reason for voting EE..I don't know why two of you have sheeped it. EE has been one of the better posters so far.

[Aneninen]

Clear.
Days last here for 14 Days. There's plenty of time for everything. Read a couple of wiki pages.

[Aneninen]

I f-cked it up.
Actually Day (with capital) means an in-game Day, whereas day (with lowercase) means a real life day.

[Aneninen]

Do not take it as an offence, but I seriously recommend you read a couple of Wiki pages. Things are very different here, different to any other Online Mafia games. I think you should have joined a Newbie first, but what is done is done.
Get used to the terminology, the editor, everything.

For example, the Roles you described are called Anti-town Roles or, in general scum roles here. "Bad" usually refers to gameplay, strategy, etc. "Evil" is not used in this context.

I don't know what to think about Eagle; I expressed my thoughts earlier.

________

For the others: sorry for posting things that doesn't help move the game, but I think someone needed to do so. Every Clotilde has a first game.

[Aneninen]

Spoiler: Read this, Thraddash; irrelevant for everyone else

I know the feeling.
About 20 months ago or so I too joined a Newbie and it took forever until it finally started. Then I got FoS-ed [search for that expression on Wiki] for silly reasons, I freaked out and eventually lost the game to the town because of that. Even if I actually solved the game on Day3...

Yes, it seems to take ages. But, try to get used to MafiaScum, to its ...special things. If you want to play this game on a site where strategy means more than anyone else, this is a place for you.

As you get familiar with the game

here

, you can still sign up into Blitz games. They're much faster – although, I, personally know nothing about Blitz. I'm quite a rhapsodic player, when I have time, I'm here a lot, but when there's a lot of work, I hardly post anything for days.

There are some forums about theory, strategies, whatever else here, too. Some of those are quite up-to-date, compared to Wiki, which's quite outdated sometimes. (But still, it's worth reading that one too. I got plenty of information there and sometimes I'm still reading those pages.)

[Aneninen]

What do you think about xtoxm?? He still needs to answer his question, he is taking too long,

Not much, so far.

Spam posting just gives scum a good place to hide and begs for a policy lynch.

The first part is very true.
Policy lynches, on the other hand, are never good.

Unless you'd like to explain what my attitude is and why my attitude is "scummy?"

If I knew, I'd point it out.
In YCBA many players thought you were scum, although I didn't think so, I put you somewhere in the wallspam-town section.
Now, your gameplay is different and if I hadn't met you before, I'd put you in the "bad-town" section.
But it's clear that your posts are different here and I don't know it's happening because you've changed your gamestyle or because you're scum.

Maybe he should be investigated if we have that one. Although, there may be a Godfather on the scum side.

I just read this again and it reads so bad. It's such a nothing comment.
VOTE: Aneninen

And I'll be even more speculative later.
I'd explained my reasons for doing so in the sign-up thread, before the game started.

My play style changes every game.

Okay, that's a kind of answer.
As for the later posts: what do you mean by "Aneninen shouldn't have said things he doesn't know"? I don't get it.

This?

1. This is an ok statement: "eagle looked like he had a really scummy attitude to a lot of players that game." I won't dispute this, I actually agree
2. This is not an ok statement: "eagle's attitude was really scummy that game" this is not ok he doesn't know what's going on inside my head

Originally, I said this:

I remember Eagle from a recently finished game. Plenty of players wanted to lynch him because he'd had a kind of scummy attitude. This attitude seems just as scummy, however, different to that one. Either he's changed his gamestyle (I think he said so) or he's scum.

Also, see my post above about the topic.

You're making something out of nothing.

Someone please raptor him before I get back. This is a personal matter he's invaded and is pushing on and I swear if he still pushes this when I get back I will push back like he's pushing me: personally.

Was that for me?
If so, I still don't get it why do you think I offened you or something like that.

[Aneninen]

I think Anenine must be good, because he tried to teach me how to play the game,

That's not an alignment tell.

Also, I'm asking it again.
Does anyone think that I've offended Eagle? If so, when?
I only know if I found something offensive, I'm telling it instantly and I try to keep the topic as far from the in-game things as I can. Actually it's ironic, because exactly the same happened a couple of page ago.

[Aneninen]

Yes you offended me but screw it it doesn't matter. Apparently I'm not allowed to have feelings this game. I'm not going on vacation angry, but I would like to know what on earth everyone thinks I'm trying to distract from. The fact that a lot of people thought I was town when I was scum?

I don't get it.
If I offended you, explain where and with what.
Noone said that you weren't allowed to have feelings.

My problem with this game is much easier and much more in-game.
After 8 pages I got nothing. Not a single read. Partly because we have to explain a lot of things to KainThraddash, partly because of your argument with Acryon (and others?) whether I'd offended you or not.

Can't we just play, as always? Getting reads on each other, town- and scumreading each other, fighting each other because of

in-game

things eg. scummy posts, pushing wagons, counter-wagons, and so on?

[Aneninen]

He called me fake and overreacting, I did not see how he tried to teach me because i was upset at him calling me fake, no one calls me fake that is what bullies do

Actually he tried.
Bully = scum in that sentence?

[Aneninen]

it looks like you're trying to buddy Anen and not EE. So why?

For me, it looks more like a newb-tell, not a scumtell.
(Actually I'm one of the worst players to buddy. Everyone knows I care very little about getting "allies" or town credit.)

I do not know if Eagle is scum or town but I think Anen is good, he has been helpful and pressuring people,,!

Erm... I haven't pressurized anyone... I honestly don't have any reads yet.

This is what gives me also the impression that this whole charade of you claiming your aggressive is fake.

Do you think KainClotilde is faking?

But I want to be AGGRESSIVE like all the strong players and catch scum like they can... am I not aggressive enough??

Well... as for aggression, you'll surely met a couple of REALLY aggressive players... and I bet you'll have every chance for this with RadiantCowbells (as hydra) and me in the game...

Things To Say To Someone To Guarantee You'll Never Get An Apology" for 500, Alex Trebek.

I don't even know what should I apologize for!!!

Also, I'm missing this one so much:

Yes, also didn't like the reason for voting EE..I don't know why two of you have sheeped it. EE has been one of the better posters so far.

[Aneninen]

"Everybody knows" is bullshit. Absolutely unacceptable. (Don't do self-meta, it's bad for you)

I had a goal with that post, and I'll reveal it later, maybe in a couple of RL days, it depends on how the game goes on.
A little hint: that was an answer for KainThraddash, not for eg. you.

[Aneninen]

I see a lot of posturing from KainTepes about being aggressive, and that's good, because evil players aren't aggressive, and that's bad, so he needs to be aggressive.
Looks like an act, which is scummy to me.
VOTE: KainTepes

Ghhhhhhhh, I missed this before.
This sounds like Davesaz is going after the "low hanging fruit".

I dont like it because I am town, but if you all think I am a useless player then its ok lynch me...

That's not how it works on MafiaScum.
Normally, scumread players are good lynches. Lynching someone because they're useless or annoying is not a good idea, because it rarely has to do anything with their alignment.

Utility lynches

, however, do exist, but that's a different story. (That happens in weird Setups or situations when even someone's town their mere existence is detrimental and/or their death gives so much information that the gain is bigger than the loss. But this is not a situation like that.)

And you wonder why I think this is all fake....

I don't think so.
By the way, Kop, you're so obv-town. ^_^ (For the others: I saw him as scum in another game a couple of weeks ago.)

VLA cause flu for today

Fine with EE or KT lynches ATM.
~Titus head (vla only for that head)

Gute Besserung!
What are your other head's reads?

[Aneninen]

Whut?

[Aneninen]

I see a lot of posturing from KainTepes about being aggressive, and that's good, because evil players aren't aggressive, and that's bad, so he needs to be aggressive.
Looks like an act, which is scummy to me.
VOTE: KainTepes

In your experience do newbscum go out of their way to draw attention to themselves like that?

Good point...

It's an impression that I'm getting. We think differently so you may well not get that impression.

Assuming he's a newbie (or at least, newbie to MafiaScum), I don't think he'd be so reckless as scum.

I have no problem with what aneninen said, I do have a problem with the way he said it. To pretend to understand me like that after playing that game the way he did....

Where did I pretend to understand you?
I was guessing and I expressed this fact, I think, very clearly.

I'm sorry I really don't want to play after that BS. I could sit here and take apart every piece of that pile of horse waste of an argument that was used against me but I doubt I could get through your dense skull with a jackhammer, so I'm not even going to try. I need more space for the time being and if you push me I will either claim or replace out.

What are you talking about?
I'm not even voting for you! As far as I can remember, I've never had a case against you!

No, it's not "low hanging fruit". Yes, I do believe that scum might try to hide by "acting town". No reason to think newb scum would do that any less than experienced.

As for the second part, see above!
For the first part, he's definitely not a fruit launched to the moon from a cannon.

So. I'm taking a break here. I'm sorry. I'm not usually like this and I don't know why aneninen triggered me the way he did but the way acryon responded was frankly disgusting, IMO. Right now this game is ruined for me and I just want to replace out, so please ... I don't know, accept that I'm offended by different things from you and need some space so I can back off for a minute, please?

I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the box, so my problem is that
I Still Don't Understand What I Had Done That Offended You That Much.
Okay, it can be anything, and if you don't want to explain it, you need not do so. Alternatively, we can talk it out post-game in PM. Or whatever.
I'm here to play. Not to make enemies.

[Aneninen]

2. I do think Eagle is not a good lynch D1. I think this is a noobtown mislynch in the waiting and I will not touch it. I ask the rest of you to do the same. Good choices would be Burning Crystal or Persivul. (More info on this coming).

When will the more info come?

Current preferred lynches would be Smudger/Anen/Mad King. There are others I could compromise on, and others i'd be less enthusiastic to. I won't go into my town reads right now.

Where did those name come from?

@aneninen. Not mad at you. I wasn't even that messed up until acryon got into it.

Let's just say I have emotional issues that I need to deal with and I apologize for them leaking into the thread. I try to stop myself when I recognize I'm blowing things that don't matter at all into mountains, it's just hard to take a break and calm down when you have... ...things... Like acryon jumping in on things and just riling people up more.

Then let's leave this story where it belongs to. In the past.

Not that this has anything to do with the game, but how do you (or anyone else) have a flu for a day?

Fzzzzzzzrt.
(1) It might have meant the worst day of flu.
(2) Some people can have flu quickly and dreadfully. It lasts for only a couple of days, 2 or so, but those days are horrible.

I'm actually in agreement. Some people look better than others, but all of them have a good poker reads. (There are obviously some that are quicker to emotion, but it's striking me more-so as newbish)
The question I have for you is that if you're not really into voting anyone, what's with your vote on Ameninen?

They may have left it there from RVS. Actually I left my vote there from RVS, because I'm another player who simply can't find too much useful content.
I mean, most of the things happening have been about a couple of players, whereas apart from those things... nothing.

OK. I'm all caught up. There are more irrelevant posts in this thread than there are actually relevant ones. If I disregard the posts that are irritating in an irrelevant-to-game way I'd say Persy is the one standing out as a slight scum lean.

However, I need to sort out RC first. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Rasko before, so I would certainly appreciate it if you guys signed your posts for me to tell who's actually doing the post.

Why is it more urgent to sort RC out first than anyone else?

You're putting us in a bad position here. I don't want to see someone get RL pissed off over this, but I've posted similar stuff in the past, and only when I was scum. It was partially true and partially strategic. When I'm town and I think I'm misunderstood or treated badly, I don't threaten to replace out, because I'm satisfied that my lynch is going to give town good info, and particularly on D1 when there's usually a mislynch anyway. All I see from you is concern about your personal survival. I don't see concern for town. Some people do get overly concerned with personal survival as town, but in general it's more often a scum trait, because scum have smaller teams and the loss of one has much greater impact than loss of a single town.

Erm... I can't explain it, why, but this is scum.
I often do such kind of appeasing posts or what-should-I-call-them, both as town as scum, and even if it can't be noticed (or at least, it has not been yet), I know my town-calm-down posts are different to my scum-calm-down posts.
I know it's weak but right now, better than nothing.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Persivul

You're ruining this game. It's no fun if someone is actually upset about it IRL.

mod, please replace me

Shyt.
UNVOTE:
I simply can't imagine a scum replacing out in this very situation.

________

Frankly, everyone!
Can't we just play? Like in all the other games?
Pisskop deserves a better playlist than we are, including me.

And I f-cking don't care if you think that's my scum-appeasing post, actually it's not, but even my lynch would be more contribution to this game than everything has happened so far.
Actually Persivul was posting something similar, wasn't he? And he got a scumread from me.
Good.
I'm an idiot.

*hitting a tin bucket with a rusty hammer, which sounds terribly*

[Aneninen]

My Anen read is based on not liking a handful of his comments combined with a healthy dose of meta. Things like voting and unvoting Pers in #261 i'm not really buying, just looks to me like he's trying to fake stream of consciousness. I don't have a scum meta on Anen but I do have a good amount of town, and his play here is very different to what I was expecting from town-Anen..So it follows that this is more likely to be his scum play. Certainly good enough for me to support for D1.

Your logic is wrong, but whatever.

Actually that vote/unvote was the result of my catching-up method. I saw Percivul's post which I found scummy and I saw him replacing out

after

I hit the Preview and I added that part next.
Obviously, I know it's only my words but that's all I can tell.

This part above goes for everyone.

Anyway, I don't particularly find Aneninen scummy, but I did find the vote/unvote in the same post a bit intriguing. I don't mind applying some pressure there, and especially so with me currently not voting, so..
VOTE: Aneninen

*shrug*
I don't really care. If my lynch helps improve the atmosphere of the game, go ahead. At least, after that there will be

real

things to talk about.

VOTE: Adenine

Pigeon boy saying some weird things.

Aaaaaaaand yet another pearl of hydra incostistency. You'd already been voting for me.

It is possible I'm wrong about your alignment. The best way to convince me, and others, is to actually do the things you're saying town should do.
What do you think about the people who replaced out?
Do you think Extrapolated Eagle was truly upset, or was it an act to derail the suspicion on him?
Eagle said he was upset with Acryon, not Aneninen. Did you see Acryon do anything to justify that position?
Do you have any opinion about the people who seem to have quick reads on others they have past experience with? Especially the ones who claim to get a read off just a couple posts?

Erm... I assume there's no Mafia Daytalk. Or at least, it's not written on the Wiki.
This sounded like a kind of couching.
VOTE: Davesaz

I've not participated with you in a game where you are scum, so I have zero idea what your like as scum.

In Zar's I was the SK. ^_^

[Aneninen]

Also Anen, you're being a bit selective.

Why?

VOTE: Adenine
Pigeon boy saying some weird things.

This is close to not being a vote

Sooner will politicians stop lying than RC will stop calling me Adenine.

Eagle, did you re-start your game in 303 ?

I see no logic in this. This post implies that someone is switching out in order to make themselves look more town for the person who replaces him. I have to ask: What does someone care for the game if they no longer play? That's like thinking about the prostitutes in Grand Theft Auto after you turn off the Playstation 4. Why do you care? They're whores and you're not playing the video game right now.

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

I know it's just a feeling that the post above gave me serious scum vibes.

Yeah. I finally see why some want to lynch Aminem. There's not reacting to votes and there's being OK with dying. It seems scummy that you're trying to play it off cool by making your death acceptable. If you're town, I don't know why you're not fighting for your survival.

I've already explained it.

Ew. Walls.
Hi.
Bye.
Will post tomorrow.

There's something for you in that spoiler above.

Is your scum read on them based on lurking/absence?

He quite specifically said that vote was to pressure them into hoping that he would come out and post.
I've done it before as scum, where I've delayed things by saying soon. It's one of those post words that you hope will appease the crowd and hope they forget about you.

Actually yes, it's not only lurking. Also, it's not a bad strategy if a scum wants something to "die out" in the thread, without eg. derailing a wagon or protecting someone openly. I know this has just come from the wrong slot now, but it's still true.

I'm not using this to paint you as scum, but that just doesn't make any sense. I don't know whether to place that into; you are trying to appear that you are keeping up; or in putting your thoughts out and making people see that you are actually thinking out loud in the thread.

Sometimes I'm thinking loud.
There were games where this strategy earned us scumlynches. My half-bake thoughts were completed by someone else.

________

Hooraay! I've started getting reads!
*dancing around the room like a little anime girl*

That's much better than it was before!
*jumping high, landing on a plastic banana and falling over*

Even if I get lynched later, at least I can tell you something before.
*lying on the floor, stars spinning around her head*

[Aneninen]

When you think I can't be a bigger aßhole I'm proving that I can.
After checking every single game I'm in I reached this one and faced the decision: Mafia or swimming pool?
I picked the latter one.

And I'm terribly sorry for being a useless pr1ck again.

[Aneninen]

I'm starting to post my reads. (By ISO-ing, which may change some of my previous reads.)

Acryon

– he hasn't done too many things, but as far as I remember; he's usually a slow-starter. His interactions feel natural. My intuition says nothing wrong about him.

Lean town

.

Almost50

– It's strange that he wanted to sort RC out first 254, his 266 was empty. His later posts, on the other hand, are better, showing interactions and original thoughts. I don't know what to think.

Unsorted

.

BurningCrystal

– I find it very strange that a hydra containing Titus has so few posts. (Knowing Titus, I don't think it's an alignment tell.) They started out good, but their later absense is a bit concerning. However, it may be because of IRL things.

Lean town

. (More precisely, a unique category: they're not a priority now, because I expect more content later from them.)

Davesaz

– I know plenty of others have been coaching KainThraddash, but Davesaz's words were different. There are other things too. Eg. he misrepresented me in 342, and generally speaking, he's simply going with the flow, waiting for an easy wagon to hop on.

Scum

.

Eagle

– It's hard to say anything. He has different gamestyles, yes, but in this particular game many of his earlier posts resulted a null both on him and on others. His later pushes are mysteries for me.

Unsorted

.

Firestarter

– This one is a biased-read. I don't think any scum player would have replaced out at the time and in the way Persivul did. The one relevant post Firestarter has made seems to be okay, but I need more to solidify my read in either way.

Lean town

.

The other half of the players are coming later.

[Aneninen]

More reads.

KainTepes

– I only can say, his newbie-ness prevents me to form a firm read on him. He was on another forum before and I can imagine this was the default behaviour there. I don't have time for that right now, but, here's something. If he's scum, I bet at least one buddy of him has coached him so far. If so, there may be a change in his posts

after

the coaching. (I know I said Davesaz had sounded like that, but what if that's not the only possibility?) If there's

no

change, he must be town. Considering everything

lean town

(as I have time I'll check the thing I've just said. Or anyone can feel free to do so.)

Kop

– Despite his latest walls I still don't think he could be scum. His scum-play was very different. Also, most of the things he's saying make sense.

Town

.

KuroiXHF

– Plenty of small things. He reacted to my 96 but said nothing about Mad King's similar post. I said Davesaz had been moving with the crowd all the time, but Kuroi's doing the same and he does that much more times. His 381 could be either way – it may mean genuine effort but may have come from a scum too. (I've already done something similar before and I have seen scums doing the same). But! Actually I opened some of the posts he quoted only to see... how shallow that long quote-list is.

Scum

.

Mad King Hydra

– I don't think they read this game a lot. When they voted for me their vote had already been on... me. This is the most blatant example that confirms my thoughts.

Unsorted

.

Sunset Illusions

– Three f-cking posts from that slot. How on Gods' Green Earth should I get a read on that?

Unsorted

(If he flips town later, on the other hand, we should examine those who started wagoning him!)

Xtoxm

– Actually that 264 doesn't look good at all, but as scum he could have gone after much easier wagons. Not too much content, intuition says he's not scum.

Lean town

.

[Aneninen]

I want to policy lynch KT at this point.

I am willing to join that if it becomes a thing.

Policy lynches are bad and you should feel bad.

Xtoxm, I think you're town but I think Anen is too. Can we meet in the middle?

It's okay for me. For Today.

Sunset KT Dave and Kurio work for me.
I don't have town feels for any of them, that is if you can't join me on EE.
~Titus

Dave or Kurio.
As for EE, I've been thinking. If I'm right, he did a hard-reset on the game and I can see no scum motivation for that.

I have a request. Could you please try to do a quick read of the thread and see if this could be a multi-ball with precisely KT+RC on one team and EE+Kop on the other one?

Why those teams and why do you assume two teams?

Doing an entire read through was somewhat taxing, especially when I stated that I accidentally closed out the tab halfway through. As a result, I wasn't as thorough as I wanted to be. Evidently, you find that scummy.

A mistake I sometimes do or a fake I sometimes perform. Regardless of my alignment.

1) Voting Sunset for being inactive is a bad move.
2) Voting KT for yelling/being obnoxious is a bad move. (Although part of me just really wants to vote him and I may have difficulty resisting the urge.)
3) Burning Crystal is the best lynch for today, although I suppose I could get under Almost50.

1. Agreed.
2. Agreed.
3. Wrong.

Almost50 scum
Kop
Kurio not protown
Everybody else I just want to lynch just because only four players have had decent play this game and only three of those are likely town.

What was that last bit? Which three?
I still don't think Kop's scum.

Dave is strong town and one of the pro town players

No.

@aneninen this is my only scum game on the site

Checked. Gave me no useful information.

[Aneninen]

Kop is playing one of my scum games if you mixed it with an elyse and sprinkled a little bit of bloodstone

Kop's scumplay I saw was very different.

I've made it up to page 10.
UNVOTE: Kop I haven't got to where he votes me, but he looks like town. Actually, my one strong read so far.
I'm reading a lot of emotional stuff. Not seeing a lot of scum hunting.
Mad King posted the odd numbers on the first page, but I haven't seen an explanation or very much of him at all in the first 10 pages.

This looks like town-TexCat.

VOTE: Kop
1. Ineffective pushes on new people and flakes
2. Eagle's case was pretty good
3. Quote wall defense when Eagle started making points on him
4. Not paying attention to most of the player list

How to Build a Counterwagon. Chapter 6.

Will post tonight. Sorry, got busy.

I've already forgotten that he's in this game. Not a good sign.

[Aneninen]

@Anen: Sorry if I missed this, but what do you think about Almost50, specifically the comments I made regarding him?

Sorry, my fault, that was between my two readlist-posts and I simply forgot about it.

The 1st quote is weird, although I don't know whether it's scummy too.
The 2nd one, yes. It looks empty with a lot of words. I remember reading that. It didn't ping me that hard (I saw it was very empty) because at that point there had been so little useful content that I had too coped with forming any reads. Although, you may be right here.
As for the 3rd one, I don't exactly remember the context. Although, if Eagle is scum (which I don't believe), there might have been some coaching in that post.
The 4th one. Long wall, wall-answer. I don't get why he picked KainThraddash, Kop and you. The Titus and Mad-King reads are fence-sitty at best.
As for the 5th one, that Sunset-wagon was quite terrible. (Maybe I'm biased now, because I don't think TexCat is town.)

So, I see your point, there are concerning things, I'd add eg. his 432 too. Maybe I'm wrong about Kuroi. (An intuition because of his latest posts.) But, I'm content with my Davesaz-vote right now and now I'm waiting. I'll explain later what for.

[Aneninen]

Finally, you've managed to get a pagetop! ^_^

[Aneninen]

Intuition.
Your ignorance seemed to be genuine.

[Aneninen]

Just so you stop messing around; I'm an X-shot PGO

Good.
If so, he won't get to LyLo, so I'm believing this. (Check out the Setup Scheme.)

VOTE: Almost50

I KNEW you'd fall for THAT. There's NO PGO in ANY of the WW scenarios.

Wrong. Besides Wolf, they can be
(1) Townie with a contradicting PR
(2) Mafia with a contradicting PR
(3) any alignment and doubting your claim.

This is the worst reaction I've ever seen...

Which one? Almost's? If so, it was. Although I'm unwilling to test that claim by a Day1 Lynch.

1) That wasn't me. That was Raskol.

Time stamps and parallel activity check confirms this statement.

If we leave Mad King and they're WW, they get NK'd anyway as I see it.

But then we need to find someone other than me to lynch, and while I don't mind being scumread (more accurately not being universally townread) I don't want town to lose my crime fighting prowess.

On the chance that the setup isn't one of the WW setups, maybe we go ahead and lynch them anyway.

The highlighted part is so scummy that I've had to adjust the measure threshold on my Scum-O-Meter.

Your crime fighting powers?
Your technical ability is awful and your scumhunting is awful as well. You single handedly lost us the game with Soapbar and Iraonavp.
Don't even talk.

Why have I had to read posts like this in every single game recently?

VOTE: Mad King Ashnard

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

Clotilde!

@Titus: I fake claimed PGO to trick Ashnard and they fell for it. I believe there are 2 teams (as I've explained before) judging by the way interactions have been going between each couple and the obvious hostilities between the two sides. They may or may have not realized they're actually targeting the other scum group, but still it looks like each pair is working together simultaneously from the other pair.

WHUT?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Almost50

I think the most likely explanation is that Almost is a PR who knows that there is no PGO.
He could be some sort of scum knowing that too but I think that's more likely.
Unfortunately he doesn't know what he's doing so :\

That's not zero sense.
That's actually Sub-Zero sense.

Aneninen's "case" on me was that I was scum because I was coaching KT.

That isn't the only thing.

VOTE: kuroi

Oeoh?

Okay, I'll try to focus this game tomorrow. A legitimate problem for me here is that this playerlist is more experienced than what I'm used to so I don't have any easy newbie sorts (kt doesnt count) and having to weigh everything vs meta ends up exhausting. Not an excuse for me not putting in enough effort though. Sorry.

I don't like this either.

[Aneninen]

Sorry about last night. I don't know what I was thinking. Wtf eagle. How was a drunk post alignment indicative?
By the way, I won't be v/la but no computer access until monday

I've seen drunk posts. That didn't sound like a real one. :/

What was so fake in it?

The ONLY PR that could've been outed here would be the PGO themselves. I'm a Weak Bodygaurd.

No.
And your math is flawed too.

[Aneninen]

This part stood out as the super fake part. He makes sure everyone knows he's drunk so he seems vulnerable and he can post freely seeming like he doesn't actually know who scum is or anything

I'm doing the same as town and trust me, my drunkposts are much worse.

Sorry, this still looks like a claim from scum. I would expect the real Bodyguard to be more familiar with the scenarios he was in. Especially if he claimed to study them.

I expected a different role, which would have ruled out PGO as a possibility. Look more carefully at setup 12. (pedit: ninja'd)

If he is a bodyguard, I'd prefer we not lose that role

. It's the only sliver of a chance to get more than one openly revealed cop result.

I still don't believe his claim but whatever.
It's also possible that he's indeed a bad-town and if so, he must be a planned counter for the real scum.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Davesaz

VOTE: Texcat
Not finished reviewing but from who I've looked at so far I feel good about this.

Why?

[Aneninen]

It's not alignment indicative. It's a personal preference. I don't think flavor should be game related.

You seem to have picked something irrelevant for working with.

VOTE: Aneninen
I have a reason for wanting the bodyguard to be preserved. You really need to pick another target. Immediately.

Okay for Today.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: Anenien

Where did this come from?

I could but my obvtown reads are pushing Anenenien. Tex is not likely to give us reaction, so he's more of a lynch if there's nothing better to do.
~Titus

Davesaz as obvtown?
You actually voted for him in 442. Dafuq.

Seriously, my scumreads aren't getting traction. I'm not explicitly townreading Anenien. We need wagons. Too many chefs spoils the broth.

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!!!!

Dave and acryon have been pretty townie lately and I see where a strong case can be made on Almost. I'm getting quite a few townreads. IF you want me to follow you, you'll need to convince me that either a) texcat is scum or b) you're townier.

Townies misreading players. Have you ever heard of this?

First, the hasty reaction with unplanned reaction fish plus Almost reaching out to immediately try to fix his blunders. Dave seems to be on the same page and trying to create wifom around who Almost should protect tonight. While they lack subtlety, the motivation is clearly townie.

Where did Davesaz post that?

7 posts apart, both signed as ~Titus, and I haven't posted in between. What's the deal here??

Good one, Almost!

Context Almost.
I was meaning a strong TOWN case can be made on you. The second paragraph in the second post is talking about how townie you are.
I don't care what you accept as a slot RC. I am nullreading Texcat. No amount of whining and bitching will change that. You aren't having a valid push on Texcat. You are refusing to provide a reason for your push at all.
~Titus

Okay.
But.
Townreading Almost doesn't make you town.
As for TexCat.
I've seen her mislynched on Day1. She has a gamestyle which, somehow, acts as a mislynch magnet. Therefore, I'm not sold on the case against her. However, it's possible that Burning Crystal's either protecting or Whiteknighting her.

VOTE: Texcat
Now

That's what I wanted

.
I will ride this out and see where it goes for awhile if you're willing.
*peace offering*
~Titus

What did you want?
What's that *peace offering* pigeon poop?

It looks like you're just pissed I am trying to bury the hatchet with someone I am scumreading.

It is to you.
Can you walk me through why are you are scumreading us?

Bad phrasing. I meant to say I am used to scumreading.
I had solid town reads on your wagon. If I was scumreading you, I wouldn't be trying so hard to bury the hatchet. I would just vote you.
~Titus

Even if I'm an ESL player, mixing up "I am scumreading" and "I am used to scumreading" is not a thing I can buy. Using that expression for a ...hydra slot?

Eh. I'm not good with words. Sorry, Titus. Friends?

What sort of puppet show is going on?!
I thought this game is about scumhunting, not friendmaking.

Let's test Texcat v Anen v MKA and see who jumps where. Pick one?

How to Manipulate Players, Chapter 4.

I'm ok with this one
VOTE: texcat

Dafuq.
Now I'm almost sure TexCat is a planned mislynch. I know if her wagon reaches lynch, I'll look terrible, but f-cking don't care. Gain is bigger than loss in that case.

VOTE: Burning Crystal
Because slowly but firmly, they are getting in control to manipulate the whole town.
Maybe one of the earlier major wagons were on their partner, but we can check that later if I'm right. Some other "reads" of them are Whiteknighting, I guess.

And before trying, I'm telling: I f-cking don't need "friends".

[Aneninen]

^^
Townpost.

[Aneninen]

MAD KING why are you so afraid of getting lynched??? And you say we are trying to LYNCH you for being TOO GOOD??

That was a strange question considering they had had mere two votes on them at that time.

@Ash if we sheep you on tex today will you sheep us on K tomorrow?

Badpost.

VOTE: Anenien
Scum flail 101 Anen.

OMGUS 101, Burning Crystal.
Besides, what sort of flail are you talking about? Earlier Today there had been a bigger wagon on me. Did I flail?

Compare his recent posting to 223 in his YCBA ISO. Both call out those for what he thinks are shitty pushes, but Anen talks about and analyzes the Gamestate as a whole. Here is posting is much more defensive, much like Klingon's. In YCBA he didn't ignore the other wagons forming at all. In fact, he voted wagons of players who weren't suspecting him.

Compare this to Klingon's ISO that game. Klingon responded to nothing but just tried to tear down her attackers and make herself look good. that's what Anen looks to be doing here. He'd have something to say about the substance of MKA's posts if he was town most likely.

~Titus

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

@aneninen @ash let's go here and get Titus tomorrow when this flips scum

Erm... there was something similar happening before with different names. Also quoted in this post.
What are you doing, Eagle??!

Alright, I felt kinda bad about asking you to change anyways. Sorry.

@mod please replace me

Need

Should not have done so.

Oh and EAGLE. I HAVE voted BURNING CRYSTAL earlier this game.

I AM KUROIXHF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I AM A PIGEON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I have more exclamation marks than you do.

I point out why neither of Almost50's claims can be true and that's useless and not scum hunting?
I ask questions to try to sort people and just because you can't see where I am going with it, it's entirely worthless. Do I have to be "going somewhere" to ask questions?

Is the process bar of your readlist moving?
As it gets ready, I'm all ears.

Less than two days till deadline and fluff is a thing?
I guess it's important to have fun.

We are the Mycon. We respond.

This time, I'm not going to get blinded by thinking that someone who comes around to me easily is town.Comparing Aneninen who is willing to let me live but still uncertain about my alignment to Burning Crystal who is willing to call me obvtown after I say the bodyguard needs to live, I'm more inclined to trust Aneninen. I'm also quite worried about BC's horse trading. It's almost like they're talking up a compromise in thread so as to appear like it isn't coordinated off thread, but I have seen Titus plan a manipulation and this looks similar.

^^
Parrot.

ok i change my mind... this POST by dave is actually very TOWNLIKE,,
MAD KING is still suspicious though, VOTE: MAD KING TEPES

But why?

That said, I have mislynched Titus an awfully large amount of times so I'm wary of voting her at this time and would prefer we vote Texcat.
So, will switch back if necessary since she's not a townread but there's stuff I'd rather do that would be just as informative about her alignment; I really don't think that this is white knighting here considering that she'd lose all potential town cred she'd get for it after having voted him. If Titus is scum, I'd near guarantee that Texcat is scum as well.
So, VOTE: Tex

Whut?

[Aneninen]

In the everning, I shall come.

[Aneninen]

Great. I'm catching up soon.
This game has my attention now.

[Aneninen]

I believe that Kop would be the best person to lynch today. He is my biggest scumread but only because of the way he posted. Some people who I consider town (Anenien, etc) believe he is town because of some posts in which he advises my previous slot owner. Unfortunately I don't consider advice as a town read.

Have you ever seen scum-Kop?

Texcat is also good choice in my opinion, I don't agree with anenien that there is some planned wagon on her.

Why is she scummy?

By the way, Chilled may be town.

WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT ME ANYMORE...

Read and you'll see how the others post.
I don't want to be the egghead here (and I'm not even a particularly good player) but still. Develop your own gamestyle and omit the shouts.

Like I said, it felt like you were trying to manipulate the town into starting the wagon while looking innocent in the process. I am not sure how to put it. I still think you are scum.

Is that one still a tell?

I've said similar things to that in previous games when I've been scum, when trying to give reads out without really asserting myself to give the impression that I know too much.

Did you mean Zar's?

The spoiler above is just horrible. Any WW would just sit quietly and pretend your claim was real, knowing it wasn't. Why in the world would a WW ever call you out based on your claim not matching the setup?

We can sort Almost out later. He's not worth the try Today.

Being scum in this scenario, the perfect play is to drop something a little scummy and leave. Lurk shit out. The other scum (SK or other team) would be much less likely to shoot you.

Why do you assume a crosskill so early?

Acyron, I would rather not as Dave was softing his full role, not just being a PR generally. It would probably be more protown to lynch us than to have me out Dave's role.
~Titus

Erm, you voted Dave earlier.
Whatever you saw there it does NOT make you town.

Damn kuroi why you buddy me so hard this game eh?

It's your fault. I wouldn't buddy you if you weren't so good looking.

My read on kuroi this game has consisted of "if he was scum he would be better than this right?"

Feels fake. Although I can't put my finger on anything definite.

[Aneninen]

WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN PEOPLE CALL ME A LOW HANGING FRUIT THOUGH...

Wait-oh, that's fake.

This:

@MOD My vote is on KainTepes

No, it's not "low hanging fruit". Yes, I do believe that scum might try to hide by "acting town". No reason to think newb scum would do that any less than experienced. The first advice you see if you look up how to play scum is to look town. What better way to do that than to tell people what town looks like (to you) and then try to look that way. What makes it an act is how the talk about being aggressive doesn't go with the actions.

seriously if i was scum i will NOT be that stupid, i always found myself an aggressive player on TOS, but now here everyone just says im loud and not very useful, so i was feeling hurt, so nevermind, but that is my personal issue and you are just exploiting that personal issue so now you look really SCUMMY!!!!!

[Aneninen]

It's me again.

To me it is. You don't think so? Personally I am not a big fan of "X plays in this manner when scum ; he isn't playing in this manner. Hence, he is town." logic.

By

"Is that one still a tell?"

I meant something else.
Namely, I read on the Wiki long ago that scums are hesitant to start a wagon which achieves a lynch, therefore they tend to jump on existing ones. I don't think

this

is a tell nowadays.
As for meta-ing, I know it's not an all-powerful thing. But I also know how different I am whenever I'm scum (even if most people don't spot it), so I think there's a difference at everyone else's gameplay.

Eagle was not good. Sure, he pushed against Kop, but Eagle's played a completely shit game - all game. Chilledtea is a lot more... chilled. Unfortunately for you, Chilledtea - you're going to inherit all of Eagle's negative points... at least until you earn the positive back.

To tell the truth, I wouldn't rule out him or KainThraddash as scum.
I don't think Eagle's a bad player; he's experimenting with different playstyles all the time. It's possible that his slot is scum and this playstyle worked out terribly. (Although if so, the Mod should examine the situation whether it was a tactical replace-out or not. Obviously, it's too early to speculate on that.)
As for KainThraddash, I have bigger issues. I believe he's used to Towns of Salem. (I've never played there but others here have so I believe their thoughts on that.) So, it's not about his posting style – it's something else. His posts are "fluctuating": sometimes he's noisy and very active, sometimes he dissapears for long periods. I can imagine a scum behind that very easily. (Whenever he gets FoS-ed, he walks away until the "water gets still" again.)
Also, any of those slots may be coached by their buddy or buddies. Since plenty of us have been giving them advice (later I realized, Daves was right; he hadn't been the only one), basically plenty of players are possible scums if any of those two flips scum.

This seems like an OMGUS.

Actually BurningCrystal voted me before I voted them. Or am I wrong?

Texcat's 761 is a bit vague, compared to the lenght of the post. Although she doesn't usually say more, as far as I remember.

I am

really

tempted to vote Fire Starter now. I still see his posts elsewhere on MafiaScum. I'm going to

ask the mod

to give him a prod and see if he can do something useful.

Fire Starter is not within prod range

Fire Starter has requested replacement.

Either flaking out as scum or leaving because of being uninterested in the game. Right now we can't decide which one.

Mod, can we get time extension?

It thus follows my reads haven't changed much, and I'm still not voting outside of KT, Kop, chilledtea or Mad King. One thing I've learned from a recent game though is to never post a full list of reads on everybody. It only makes it easier for scum to pick their targets from the universally town read pool.

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Nightkills are sources of WIFOM.
By the way, I accidentally read

town Deadpool

instead of

town read pool

...

I do agree that we need to agree on a lynch since we only have two days left. I think we should take some of the more popular lynches and decide on one.

Even if we don't get any extension, we need to consolidate as soon as we can.

Right now, the three most popular lynches are Mad King Ashnard, Burning Crystal and Kop. I think we should decide on one because it's either that or no one dies.

As for me, Burning Crystal is the preffered lynch. I'd vote for Mad King if I must. Kop is a bad idea.

VOTE: Burning Crystal
I feel like Titus is using different heads as an excuse to justify voting us when her behaviour towards us heavily indicated that she read us as town. Now, TN451 FINALLY shows up and it's to support voting someone that Titus can't? Like, gone the entire game but now he finally shows up and the reason is to vote someone Titus couldn't get away with?
If I'm wrong here, sorry I guess. But there's been so much nasty stuff from the slot that I can't justify not voting it to myself.

Was that a consolidation?

________

Going on soon.

Who likes washing the dishes?

[Aneninen]

Fourth, you're really wish washy with your vote and you've begun vote shopping for a new wagon already. On the one hand, you say you're tempted to vote Fire Starter (765) but in your next post you state that Fire Starter shouldn't even be an option.

I can see no contradiction there.

Given MKA's recent post however, I'm a little askance about that. He's twisting how this head feels about him in order to paint any future attempt to vote him in a bad light. Oh well, the other hydra head isn't townreading our slot either. Better try to paint the dissonance as scummy.

That's true, on the other hand. As if noone had ever seen hydra dissonance.

We're town yo.
I've only been mislynched on D1 once before. And that involved both BBT and Lilith.
Don't be the second.

Now, THAT bothered me a lot.
Putting someone on a pedestal and making themselves bad if they're acting in the undesired way is a well-known tactique of manipulation IRL.

To be fair, anybody and everybody can use that defence. It doesn't hold water. I've been mislynched many a time, I don't use that as a defence to votes being put on me.

And this is also true.
Getting mislynched on Day1 can be a result of a terrible gameplay – but of scum strategy too!

Are you thinking along the lines of 'wants to provide a case, but can't find something suitable?'
I mean, that is one of those defensive comments where he can't come up with anything better and gone for a fail safe comment that can't really draw any attention too. Or can be read 'fence sitting'.

I don't know. Something was not quite okay in that 744–746 part.

Acryon, do you have an updated readlist?

IS THERE SOMETHING I CAN HELP WITH....? I WANT TO HELP BUT ALL THE LONG POSTS ARE CONFUSING ME...

Wellshyt, see my previous post!

[Aneninen]

pigeon

[Aneninen]

Anchoring where to start catching up. 801

[Aneninen]

Ranger has replaced Fire Starter

Now there's an interesting unexpected turn of events.
WELCOME

Why?

Am I the only one who thinks that KT is an alt and is doing this on purpose??

Yes.

but I'm still working under the assumption there are 2 factions and that is why we don't seem to agree on a lynch.

That's not a good assumption.
There can be bussing.
Townies can misread everything.
Agreeing about a certain player, especially if their wagon is quick, might mean that the wagoned one is town.

The good news though is we've got Ranger here. I already think Burning Crystal is town, and I was leaning town on Ranger's spot, so together they can figure out Mad King (whom I'm still suspicious of) and then we go from there.

Why did you emphasize Ranger's arrival was a piece of good news?

Probably. Scum!Titus would've seized the chance to make a push on town!me all the way. But that's not all. I get town vibes from their posts (both of them) and reactions to everything being said of/to them.

What sort of town vibes?
Also, I don't think any scum follows any kind of pattern whom to push.

We should take our focus completely off the setup.
Let's agree on a lynch candidate, then we can discuss the possible setups up when we have flips to deal with, then we can be assured what we could possibly be dealing with.

Yes, I agree, which is the problem with Almost. Any of his pushes are essentially based in setup spec, which is very silly at this point, and has no hope of bringing people on board.

^^
Parrot.

KOP and ANENINEM are the most town-like to Me...

Me? Why?
I'm one of the most insignificant players here... I mean, I've hardly done anything so far.

5 times already he VOTED WITHOUT REASON... its weird, usually in TOWN OF SALEM the mafia will vote without saying anything because they want to be UNDETECTED...

(1) This is not Town of Salem.
(2) Someone posted it before that Xtoxm tends to throw naked votes.

Kuroi, 829 and others. Please, fix your vote tags and don't omit playernames. It's very hard to follow posts like that.

Manipulation is a core tenet of my town play as you should be well aware, Adenine.

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

Welcome to my lynch pool.

Yo. This game's gonna take me a while to get fully situated, though my understanding is we have a deadline impending. I'm doing something like five things at once, so it might take me a while to get caught up, but the urgent nature of the situation means I'll be making this game a top priority until night falls and

I inevitably get nightkilled.

Dafuq was that.

So this is just from pages 31 to the present, my list may change upon reading. It's a start, though.
{Xtoxm, chilledtea, texcat}
{Aneninen, Burning Crystal, Mad King Ashnard, Kop, KainTepes}
{davesaz}
{Almost50}
{Kuroi, acryon}
That's untouchable-town, strong-town, null, below-null, and well-below-null if you were wondering.
Obviously, this means I do not approve of the current wagons, so, uh:
VOTE: Kuroi.

We have very little time left.
You've read a couple of pages.
And you want to launch a new wagon.
It's definitely something I'd do as scum. (Regardless of my buddies would be wagoned or not.)

{Xtoxm, chilledtea, texcat, Mad King Ashnard, Aneninen}
{Burning Crystal, Kop, KainTepes}
{davesaz}
{Almost50}
{Kuroi, acryon}
This off the first four pages.

Those pages?
As far as I remember, apart from irrelevant topiques, nothing happened there. Nothing!

[Aneninen]

Take that vote off me.

Honestly, my acryon scumread is stronger, but I didn't see any votes on acryon and I

did

see votes on you, so yeah.

Pigeon poop.

*In the spirit of being completely clear: All scum chats are active during the day.

There's really no need to be coaching him in thread.

Please, everyone who has been talking about in-game coaching, grab a smiley from above. (Hint: there have been eight of them, originally.)

And the WINNER of the BEST post of THE GAME is.... *Drum Roll* *Tadaaa*

I was not saying ME... I was saying MAD KING TEPES, not KAIN TEPES... you must read my post PROPERLY!!!!

I am SORRY. I have FAILED to read that post PROPERLY!!! I will try my BEST in the FUTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^^
Parrot

I'm going to super tryhard this

The difference between fairies and you. I don't believe in either of them.
Actually I

know

fairies exist. Therefore, it's not a matter of belief.

6/12

Clotilde.

[Aneninen]

Let me think, Let. Me. Think.

[Aneninen]

I know you all are going to hate me, but I can see different things.

Firstly, Ranger in her 881 is trying to convince us how obv-town she is, which I definitely don't like.
Secondly, I haven't got time to read the wall of MadKing yet. So I don't know whether that may change my read on them. KainThraddash (and maybe Almost?) liked it, Ranger did not.

Kop called me out, as for my vote for BurningCrystal. Just because I'm the first one there. I don't know what to think. I'm one of the least significant players here, frankly.
But, as for BurningCrystal. I'd eagerly scumread him weiter, but something makes me stop.
This.

This wouldn't be a problem if Anen was town. It just wouldn't.

The whole post sounds like scum-flail, but why me? I don't think they would have posted that part as scum. Yet again, I'm not that important right now, I'm very far from getting lynched, there are some townreads on me but most reads are weak, and I've hardly did anything so far. They could have named basically anyone else as scum, couldn't they? So, what if their read is genuine? Can you see my point?

And finally, that Kuroi-wagon.
Burning Crystal, Acryon, Davesaz, Almost.
I dropped my scumread on Kuroid long ago (and if my memories are correct, it wasn't even a strong one). So, what if the whole wagon is a counter to BurningCrystal?

I can't tell if this is a scumtell or not, but I don't like this. Since all players are equally likely to be assigned as town or scum, all players are alike in significance, unless they're proven to be townie or scum in any way.

And my answer will be even more terrible.
In most games I'm either a relentless tunneller or doing you–or–me fights, sometimes including fake claims too – or I'm a slowf-ck, or what could I say, you know what?
Just like the Chenjesu Broodhome starship in Ur–Quan Masters. Hits hard, hampers enemy, hard to bring it down, but slow as an obese sea turtle and by the time it gains momentum stars usually reach their next phase.
Or imagine a lorry in GTA. Carrying a motorbike. Shit, how can I explain it?

________

TL;DR
I don't like either of the wagons. If I must, I'll stay on Burning Crystal. After all, what if the Kuroi–wagon has indeed been a counter? If so, who's the scum there?
I'd say, Mad King, KainThraddash or Ranger, maybe. But I don't think any of those would gain momentum.

And no, even if you know this pigeon poop gameplay from me, I'm not obv-town. What if I'm just miming this as scum? I'm aware of this.

[Aneninen]

Does anyone know the feeling when you KNOW that you could see the answer but you're simply unable to see it? I'm feeling so dumb.
Just like IRL, when I'd been searching for a spiritual answer for ages, and in the end it was told me in a dream by... Freddie Krueger.
If only I had time. At least, give me some to read that wall from Mad King.

[Aneninen]

Erm, call me an idiot, but what if Acryon is scum?

– He launched the whole Almost-case (414) and started pushing us to join it
– His readlist in 725 was very vague and dropped a vote for Kop – an only lean-scum read.
– He kept calling players dumb (eg. 788), which I don't think I've seen from him before. Also, spreading doubts on everything (eg. on Almost, Davesaz)
– In 897, this:

"I was torn on BC, and I would still prefer a Kuroi lynch I think, but I'd go Burning Crystal. [...] Consider this an intent to push to L-1. Would actually do it but I have had several games recently with quickhammers, so I'd rather not. BC should claim."

– That vote never arrived. Also, intent to push? Wow.
– Quickvoting Kuroi, 906 and that "ugh" as a comment with the unvote in 928. (It reminds me the classic "well that sucks" scumtell)
– Generally speaking, his ISO contains much less useful content than we would imagine.

I know it won't work and I know in the end I'll end up voting for Burning Crystal again, even if I'm not as convinced about that as I was before. But I don't think I would like to lynch TexCat (reasons provided before) and I'm definitely unwilling to lynch Kuroi Today.
I'm still leaving this post along with the vote here for later references.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Acryon

[Aneninen]

Quickpost, need to work.
Day's about to end, so let's consolidate. Only the main suspects – whom I'm not really content with – are those we should choose from. Contradicting myself.
I know.

[Aneninen]

My problem with the Texcat wagon is Zar's Open C9++.
She got lynched there in a similar way. Link comes as I get home.

[Aneninen]

Firstly, Ranger in her 881 is trying to convince us how obv-town she is, which I definitely don't like.

What.
I mean, doesn't change that I

am

obviously town, but I've made absolutely no effort until this post to vocalize that sentiment.

KainThraddash (and maybe Almost?) liked it, Ranger did not.

Wrong. I didn't like the conclusions. That does not mean I did not like the wall. To the contrary, it only reinforced my townread. But what I want is content from RC, rather than Raskolnikov.

(1) It can be sorted out later, I guess. (We've never met in any games before so I don't know whether it's typical of you.)
(2) I see.

I don't understand why everyone is working so hard to NOT vote BC. Everyone is saying he's scummy but won't vote him. I actually feel this more or less confirms him actually being scum.

I expressed my doubts before. As for the others, you may have a point. If they're scum, your wagon must clearly have been a counter.

Everyone is saying he's scummy but won't vote him.

To the contrary, I see a lot of people saying, "meh" on them and not taking a hard stance: even those who join the wagon. The people voting them don't care if they're actually lynched.
This is almost a surefire sign they are town. Which fits with my read there anyway.

Yeah, this.
Noone seem to care a lot and I can feel they're a compromise-wagon now. I may return there later but only to avoid a NoLynch.

My strongest scum read is still Almost50, and Acryon is the one who started the wagon on him. I'm not really feeling the Acryon lynch.

But why?

ayy let's lynch little miss have-my-partner-vote-me-right-after-I-declared-a-townread-on-you.

Namely?

962–964 – Yet another quick-wagon. Xtoxm, Kop, KainThraddash. We should remember those names, just as well the Kuroi-section.

As for TexCat

, I meant this game: Zar Show (C9++)

It's strange that neither Kop, nor Acryon has mentioned it. Both of them were there.

Going on soon.

[Aneninen]

A no lynch doesn't give us any better information, but if it's a fail safe idea then it could be useful. We will have power roles that can gain us information without a lynch. We've already pressed a wagon on Burning Crystal, then moved to Kuroi, who then hinted at something, we tried to go to Aycron, and now we're onto Texcat. I've been in a few games where we no lynched day one, but still went onto win end game.

I don't like this reasoning at all.
Also, Acryon has never been a wagon. Even I, who voted for him first, said it wouldn't take off Today and i would join a stronger wagon in need later.

There's only so many wagons we can run before we hit a VT or a CC. I think we've forced at least 1 scum into a bad claim. Removing a suspected VT is better than NL.

^^
That.
Who do you think was faking?

Hmmm... I don't suppose jail keeping the killing mafia member would save my life, would it?

Jailkeeper trumps Nightkill actions.

VOTE: texcat
This may be

L-1

but that's based only on someone else previously reporting a L-2, and may not be correct.

It is.
I still don't like this wagon, reasons were posted. I'd only vote for her if we were just before Deadline. (As it was said, removing a suspect still helps later.)

[Aneninen]

VOTE: Acryon

Mobilepost.

I hate doing this but... what did I tell you about TexCat?

[Aneninen]

VOTE: Acryon

Mobilepost.

I hate doing this but... what did I tell you about TexCat?

What is your point? I didn't even vote for TexCat.

There was no connection.
1. I still think you're scum and your eintritt was scummy too.
2. I scolded the whole town.

[Aneninen]

You thought dave was most likely to get NK'd?

Yes. He soft-claimed a PR, and I read him as town with more certainty, and now I KNOW he is town regardless of being a PR or not.

At least we know Davesaz is town if Almost is really a Bodyguard

[Aneninen]

There's a good question.
If we assume two scum teams, where's the other Nightkill?

[Aneninen]

Other players assumed two teams Yesterday.
Still from mobile.

[Aneninen]

I can see there goes the quickwagon.
Examine that Tomorrow.
I bet I get dead by the time I get home.

[Aneninen]

I posted that I'm from mobile.
Whenever I get quicklynxhed I'm town and everyone misses examine my wagon later. THAT lattet part is my problem.

[Aneninen]

I posted that I'm from mobile.
Whenever I get quicklynxhed I'm town and everyone misses examine my wagon later. THAT lattet part is my problem.

You expect the Queen of VCA not to analyze wagons?
That's the story you're going with?
And if I die, no one else would do it?

~Titus

And that's what I think was a scumslip.
It sounds as if you know that I'll flip town.

Also, others were speculating about a possible other scumteam (I included the SK too by talking about that). About the time when Almost claimed.
So, calling me scum because of that is WTF,

especially

because I posted that I was from mobile.

And I can see a clear scum motivation for removing me. I'm a slow player; the more time I spend in the game the surer my reads are.

My scumread on Acryon is not new.
The one on BurningCrystal has just born, see above.
Almost may be town, but I wouldn't rule out an Acryon/Almost team. Actually, Acryon was talking a lot about Almost, but... checking the VCs... what can we see? Also, check the BurningCrystal wagon. And check their positions...
I don't know what to think about Kop, but I suppose he's town, based upon his Day1.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BurningCrystal
Add the fact that TexCat may have been a counter to another wagon.

[Aneninen]

Wow, when I highlight your narrative sucks and has no plausibility, you vote me crying "scumslip" right.

Mobile post doesn't excuse pursuing absolute bullshit. You're trying to use mobile post as a defense to having scummy thoughts and pushing narrative to save your own bacon.

Mobile post maybe excuses typos.

~Titus

Discrediting 101.

Now I'm sure that you've scumslipped!

[Aneninen]

@Anen: She's not alone, tbh. Anyone who still thinks I'm anything less than conf!town by now is a bad player who should not be followed. Acron-Almost is ridiculous. Why am I confirming davesaz then? Why didn't we just kill him and claim I protected the claimed PR? I claimed Weak BG, and nobody countered. Not the role and not the scenario. Not a single detail/occurrence in the game suggests or even hints I'm lying. And you know why? Because I AM a Weak BodyGuard and I DID target davesaz last night. Now all we need to do is wait to see if he's got any results to share. This is why I'm not voting until dave shows up.

Yeah. Your uncountered claim is something we can't ignore. That'swhy you're not a priority right now.
But, you know, it's very possible that these post are my last chance to express my thoughts.

VOTE: Burning Crystal

What's up Mad King?

Also FWIW the back and forth between Anen and BC here looks like SvS. I'm still far more certain on Anen-scum and that needs to be pursued first 100%, but I think it's fairly likely both are.

Good.
Acryon is scum too.
Scum-vs-scum, eh? What a wild-card thing! If BurningCrystal gets lynched, that confirms you and gives you a mislynch on me. If I get lynched, you can drop your BurningCrystal read freely.
Actually, if Titus were town, she could examine your voting pattern. Parking on me for ages, then jumping to Kop, joining Kuroi, and ending up... not voting. Basically, you've just avoided all the major wagons.

And oh, that "what's up"... trying hard to out the Cop, aren't you?

[Aneninen]

Good finding, KainThraddash!
I bet if I asked about the jump from BurningCrystal on me after that post, I'd be discredited once more.

[Aneninen]

And that's what I think was a scumslip.
It sounds as if you know that I'll flip town.

You're gonna have to explain that to me. I see Titus saying she'll analyze your wagon. That applies regardless of your alignment. If you were to flip scum (you won't, I can tell that much), then the wagon would be useful, especially for finding town. If you were to flip town (you will), then the wagon is still useful, for finding scum in particular.

Firstly, I don't think they'd have pointed it out that they'd VCA my wagon later if they scumread me for real.
Secondly, their reaction. Check out their 1069 once more. They did NOT care about my post (actually nor my content at all) – that post had one single goal: discrediting me.

#Anen: I take it back.

I don't think Ranger was affected my post as for her reads.
Also, why are you so worried? It's clear that lynching you would be a terrible idea right now. (We'll see later whether your claim is real and if so, you need not worry.)

They won't be coming soon, all Aneninen has done is quotewall to make it look like he's more active and involved than he really is.
I can't believe people are following his crappy votes with even worse votes and none of it seems to deserve any attention or notice whatsoever?

More discrediting. I'm not surprised.
Also, calling everyone voting for you terrible is another scumtell. Firstly, I don't think my posts are the only reasons for voting for you. Secondly, you're totally ignoring the fact that you were wagoned Yesterday.

Naked votes don't fly outside of RVS, guys, so why don't you try doing something original instead of following scum around like a bunch of brain-dead pidgeons?

VOTE: Aneninen

Good. You started insulting me. It works on many players, I know, but no, you won't make me upset. You're attacking the player instead of the posts, which is scummy.
You're acting as if the votes for you had been RVS-es. Palpable misrepresentation of the events.
And one more thing. Repeating the vote. It makes my wagon look bigger than it really is. I know that trick.

Good finding, KainThraddash!
I bet if I asked about the jump from BurningCrystal on me after that post, I'd be discredited once more.

And I bet that if you posted relevant content instead of a bunch of assumptive statements with no corroborating evidence, people that matter might actually believe you. Unfortunately, this is something you not only seem to not possess, but a concept you appear to not understand.

More discrediting. More insults. As if I hadn't posted anything relevant.

Why would scum roleclaim midway through day 1 with no pressure whatsoever? An unnecessary gambit. His "fake-claim" actually would be extremely courageous at that point.

Most of those players claimed because of being pressurized.

[Aneninen]

{chilled, 50}
{BC, acryon, Ranger}
{davesaz}
{MKA, Kop}
{Anen, KT}

What makes you think BurningCrystal and Acryon are town?

1: Oh really, and what is your source for this claim? Or are you just flinging shit to see what sticks?

For example these two sentences of you.
Instead of showing that you're actually interested in my posts you threw out a question

and added a discrediting sentence instantly

.

2: I didn't call them all terrible, I told them to provide reasoning for being on the wagon. Something I should have done yesterday when our wagon started up in the first place.

There were plenty of things posted about you Yesterday. Yet again, you're ignoring the fact that I actually

do have

a case against you. You're acting all the time as if I were a player shouldn't be listened to. That's called discrediting.

3: Posts that contain a vote tag and nothing else are baseless votes, regardless of what you say. I didn't realize Titus snuck in a vote against you. Believe me, with how much you've been deflecting and not answering questions we won't need silly tricks like that to see this wagon through.

I don't believe you at all. Neither of you seem to be the kind of players being unable to talk to each other about your thoughts.
As for my vote for Acryon. I had explained my scumread on him clearly on Day1 and you act as if I had never done so.

4: For someone so defensive over his supposed contributions, you sure are hesitant to point out what those contributions actually are.

Apart from throwing shyt at me what else have exactly you done Today?

Why would scum roleclaim midway through day 1 with no pressure whatsoever?

This is dependent on the player. There's not a universal answer. The question isn't why scum would roleclaim, it's why Almost50 would roleclaim under no pressure. The answer is because that's what he'd do.

As far as I remember there were pressure on him.

How has momentum begun to shift on them without any votes? I imagine if this was a scenario where there were lots of votes on them, you would say I was being opportunistic and sheeping. But since there haven't really been, I am opportunistic and following the " sentiment momentum" (does that sound right?)? Seems like you would come up with whatever to support your narrative. Also if you actually looked at all my votes you'd see they don't even follow the picture you're trying to paint.

Erm... I actually posted why I think you're scum. 946. It was not only about your votes. Nothing you've done since then looked town.

[Aneninen]

Oh I'm terribly sorry that I've forgotten that in this game, I'm not a player who is worth talking TO; I'm the player who is only worth talking AT.

[Aneninen]

It sounded as if you thought the only reason for scumreading you had been your vote pattern. I corrected that fact.

[Aneninen]

I don't have much to say.
BurningCrystal is my preferred lynch and I've already explained, why.
Acryon is scum too. Also explained; and his gamestyle here is something I've never seen before from him (as town).

What can I say?
Still want BC dead, don't really feel the anen wagon. Honestly still reeling from the texcat flip, ordinarily I'd talk with RC though I haven't seen him on skype for like a week now. Could also settle for kop at this point.

Are there some new things about Kop you can see?

KT needs to step up his game big time. I kind of feel bad about posting this personally. Unless he is scum - then he is actually playing to his win condition.

I actually think the opposite. He started posting thoughts.
Also, I don't think KainThraddash would be a good lynch. I see that it would be detrimental if he were here at LyLo (unless his gameplay would change a lot – and that's not impossible!) – but right now he looks like a lynch scums could compromise easily without getting FoS-sed.

Straight up; here's what I think: If we don't talk; we're not going to get any new info. If we're not going to get new info, we're lynching blindly. If we're lynching blindly, we might as well get done and over with. There's absolutely no sense in procrastinating to vote in hopes one would catch up later when there's nothing to catch up with in the first place. So, I suggest we either talk or everyone pulls out a random number and votes accordingly.

Basically, noone seems to want to take a move.
However... this might give me an idea. So, let's see what happens next...

[Aneninen]

I would be against an acryon lynch personally. If it is possible someone needs to make a case on BC because both you (anen) and MKA think they are scum. I am having difficulty reading them. I can actually see them as town - but as scum it seems difficult.

946 and his whole Day2. It's emptier than it looks and lacks real scumhunting. Also, his town-meta I know is very different to this.

Also, anen, KT is not confirmed town. Let me remind people that he could be scum, and there is no reason why we shouldn't expect more from him now that we are in Day 2.
The "scum could just get on his wagon without fos" doesn't mean much if he is scum himself.

I've never said KT's confirmed town.
As for the next part, it's more likely that scums would build a counter instead of jumping on him. Especially in this situation; we're basically stalled.

Why are we stalled?

Guys, I've never played with Scum!Ranger, so I wouldn't know for sure, but I'm sensing something is off with her persistence on lynching an unCC'd BG. If we're in scenario 5 she's probably the follower, and she verified my claim to be true so she can't wait to get rid of me bc her team prefers not to waste a NK on me.

I know it's a useless answer but something is not right. I don't know what to think of this or of Ranger or of something I can't put my finger on.
I've quoted this only to draw others' attention to this topic too.
Update because of later posts. The above goes for their whole interaction.

Almost, Ranger is being a dumbass. His reads suck and it's pretty blatantly clear he hasn't read the setup. It seems like the town is coming to the place I was two days ago. Almost and Dave are obvtown but not confirmed.

I've never met her before but I've heard the opposite about her. Namely, her reads are usually good.

[Aneninen]

Oh I meant make a case on Burning Crystal. I read that post and I agreed with it initially but I have a gut feeling that acryon maybe town.

My case about BurningCrystal has too been posted before. See eg. 1068, 1070, 1096, 1106.
Some highlighting:
– They jumped on me for a silly reason (which is not essentially scummy), but at a point when they hoped I'd be quickwagoned (this is much more scummy)
– They scumslipped in 1067 and their reaction in 1069 confirmed that.
– Most of their discussion with me was about to discredit me, which is a scum strategy I've seen plenty of times before.
– Also, they were a possible lynch on Day1. We ended up lynching TexCat, and I find it very strange that noone focuses on the other major wagons of Yesterday.

Exactly what it sounds like? What's not to get? I'm a frequent nightkill. Scum usually fear me. Sometimes, it is based off of past game experience, if the scum have played with me before and fear my talents from that game. Other times, it's because I've earned the respect of the scum in the current game in spite of no prior record. In either case, I still die early and often.

The more times you post how town you are the more FoS you get from me.

Titus lurked out most of D1 which is a towntell for her, she has no reason to buddy me in the way she has given my history of not working with her, and my general level of mislynchability I think she would want me as a lynch option were she scum and she's effectively ruled out that option or at least made it difficult for her to change that stance. Also when asked to claim at L-1 on D1 she pretty much VT softed (by not claiming), which again is a good indication of town.

Lurking is null at best. It can happen because of RL reasons and/or it can be faked easily. Softing VT is not an alignment tell either. (Actually, that may make sense as scum so as to avoid a stray SK/other team Nightkill if we have any of those factions. Scums, if I understand the Setup well, are aware of that piece of info, on the other hand.)

[Aneninen]

I can see town BC doing everything they are accused of doing as scum in that case.

That doesn't explain Day1 VCs. From VC1.20 (800) to VC1.23 (907) they were the leading wagon at L–2. VC1.24 and 1.25 (929, 950) they were even with Kuroi (L–3 and L–4, respectively). Finally (1017) TexCat got lynched.
Also, Titus is said to be the VCA-master (actually she is) and she hasn't done anything with any of the Day1 VCs.
Besides, I still think they scumslipped.

I will say that if people want BC lynched then I wouldn't be opposed but I still think that both Kop and KT are better options. The only reason people think KT is town (including me on day 1) is because we consider him newb town. I think that is potentially underestimating.

I don't know what to think of him but I think there are better lynches.

I am starting to think that it is possible ranger is scum as well.

Same here.

I heard somewhere KT was no newb, but rather a troll account. The one who said this seemed to know whom it was an alt of. Just saying.

Are you allowed to and/or willing to post any details about this?

I think this is the concensous that I'm coming too right now. If anything, it removes any doubts of what he is, and removes the WIFOM that he brings to the game. I still think we have a lot of time left to actually do some work before we lynch KT.

I agree.
Do you have other reads too?

[Aneninen]

Missing kill?

Yes. While its theoretically possible there is no second kill, the odds are 1/12. So I am assuming two kills meant to take place.
~Titus

WAS?

...and I was wagoned because of this post.

There's a good question.
If we assume two scum teams, where's the other Nightkill?

(Before asking, I made it clear in 1068 that I included a possible SK too.)

How exactly do these add up?

By the way...

You expect the Queen of VCA not to analyze wagons?

@Aninen, I don't do VCA until a scumflip. It's pretty well documented actually.

And how do THESE add up?

[Aneninen]

Because I was from mobile, as I said.
But then, someone STATED that it's not an excuse, oh wait, wasn't it YOU?
Yeah, sure, everyone seems to know better what I'm actually doing IRL, whether I have 2 spare minutes for a thought I don't want to forget while I'm working and focusing my mind on something entirely different or I'm scum and posting a silly question and faking all the time.

[Aneninen]

Why can't you do VCA on a town flip? I know a scum flip does show who could have possibly bussed, but surely you could get some information from a town flip?

parrot.

[Aneninen]

Dave claimed? I thought he hinted or dropped some sort of crumb? So why would you put him in the obvtown bracket based on a crumb, hint?

I think he only hinted

[Aneninen]

In conclusion: Stop wasting my time.

Gross.
Should you or anyone need an answer for those posts, tell me. Although most of them are about arguing the same things over and over.

It's called notepad, try it out sometime. Still not an excuse.

As if I'd never posted things like that in any of my games.

FoS davesaz.

I don't think the things you pointed out are scummy in themselves.

That was not posting about how town I am. That was stating facts. It is objectively true that I get nightkilled often. It is objectively true that scum usually are afraid of me. A statement of how town I am would be, "I mean, I am town, but...". Which this post is doing, yes. But that post was not.

We'll see. Although, if you're town, posting how often you get Nightkilled early helped the scum generate a WIFOM.

As for the Acryon/Davesaz interaction; I still think Acryon is scum and Davesaz is town. But I must admit that I may be bias-ed.

[Aneninen]

Also notice Anen and MKA are vote parking and lurking.

What the dancing little nymph are you talking about? Firstly, I've produced more content than quite a few other players. Secondly, I'm not vote parking, I'm pushing your wagon. Why would I jump off if I think you're the scummy here. By the way, aren't YOU and Aronis vote parking too in that case?

The best move for us is

VLA two days

Make those fuckers post reads.

Yeah, that's the best move for you so that your wagon might die out. (Hint: it shall not.)

Your last post (the HELOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! one) is so silly it really makes me want to replace out.

That, I suppose was simply a prod dodge in KainThaddash-ish.

I too want answers for those questions asked in 1240.

[Aneninen]

If you look through my ISO, you'll see the various issues I've had with him, but mostly it comes down to him trying to make things seem scummy that just aren't, and going down roads that misdirect town from scumhunting. 1053 is a good example.

Isn't it strange that you're still bringing that up whereas you're BLATANTLY ignoring that others have made similar speculations. Eg. BurningCrystal's Setup post was absolutely not scummy, was it?

The primary reason being the lack of defenders. Wagons on scum tend to have people defending it. As far as I remember, no one was really opposed to it until I said I was. It also doesn't help that Anen is leading that wagon and his cases are dependent on a decent helping of misrepresentation.

Unless you're their defender.
In another game I posted the same reasoning about my scumbuddy.

Maybe BC's scumpartner can't find anything to defend. Maybe Ranger is the BC scumpartner.

That's another possibility but Acryon is more likely.

Yeah I suppose a second scum-team would eliminate my criticism about no real defenders. Although it still makes me nervous that Anen is leading it who may as well be confscum.

Since when have I been "may as well confscum"? Oh, wait, because you and BurningCrystal say it so. Aaaaaaaaand I'm lurking and tunnelling. If so, what are YOU doing?

For example:

I want Anen first for sure, and since we've got some time I'd like to keep building that.

[Aneninen]

Catching-up.

[Aneninen]

Isn't it strange that you're still bringing that up whereas you're BLATANTLY ignoring that others have made similar speculations. Eg. BurningCrystal's Setup post was absolutely not scummy, was it?

Because you are the one that decided to run with it and entertain it. Responsible thing to do as town there is not speculate, because it takes us down a path that may be irrelevant. Instead you seem to fully embrace it without question.

Erm, I had one single post about it. And some players jumped onto me because of that. Others have posted plenty of things about the same topic. Your answer still doesn't explain why you don't bother about all those players.

Some clear hyperbole from me, but I think things like my 1234 make clear that I'm, not here to tunnel or lurk.

Apart from the facts you've refused to move your vote and your gameplay is very different to the town-play I know...

So you're suspicious of things titus has done. Lovely.

You've distanced yourself from your... other head. Seems legit.

I've got Anen and MKA as scum with Chilledtea, Ranger, Kain and Kop as PoE possible scum.

So, have you just assumed a three-member scum team? And you have that idea because...?
Also, six scumreads. Wow.

@MKA, Bullshit on us starting it. We had a scumread on you. That doesn't justify a petulant attitude where scumhunting stops. Yet, that's perfectly convenient for you. Vote park someone you have a history with and blame them for your inability to scumhunt.

Who else is vote-parking? Oh look, BurningCrystal and ...Acryon. Isn't it interesting?

Unchanged except for the maybe-need for one extra person as scum. {acryon, Kop, Almost50, Burning Crystal} is where I'm looking at. So if Almost50 were removed, then I'd assume either we're in a 3-scum setup or I'm townreading one scum.

Actually I've started thinking she's town.
Firstly, compare this read to BurningCrystal's. They seemed to know a 3-player scumteam (Aneninen, ChilledTea, MKA), whereas Ranger was talking about possibilities.
Seconly, because of reasons I'm not allowed to detail.

[Aneninen]

Isn't it strange that you're still bringing that up whereas you're BLATANTLY ignoring that others have made similar speculations. Eg. BurningCrystal's Setup post was absolutely not scummy, was it?

Because you are the one that decided to run with it and entertain it. Responsible thing to do as town there is not speculate, because it takes us down a path that may be irrelevant. Instead you seem to fully embrace it without question.

Erm, I had one single post about it. And some players jumped onto me because of that. Others have posted plenty of things about the same topic. Your answer still doesn't explain why you don't bother about all those players.

Some clear hyperbole from me, but I think things like my 1234 make clear that I'm, not here to tunnel or lurk.

Apart from the facts you've refused to move your vote and your gameplay is very different to the town-play I know...

So you're suspicious of things titus has done. Lovely.

You've distanced yourself from your... other head. Seems legit.

I've got Anen and MKA as scum with Chilledtea, Ranger, Kain and Kop as PoE possible scum.

So, have you just assumed a three-member scum team? And you have that idea because...?
Also, six scumreads. Wow.

@MKA, Bullshit on us starting it. We had a scumread on you. That doesn't justify a petulant attitude where scumhunting stops. Yet, that's perfectly convenient for you. Vote park someone you have a history with and blame them for your inability to scumhunt.

Who else is vote-parking? Oh look, BurningCrystal and ...Acryon. Isn't it interesting?

Unchanged except for the maybe-need for one extra person as scum. {acryon, Kop, Almost50, Burning Crystal} is where I'm looking at. So if Almost50 were removed, then I'd assume either we're in a 3-scum setup or I'm townreading one scum.

Actually I've started thinking she's town.
Firstly, compare this read to BurningCrystal's. They seemed to know a 3-player scumteam (Aneninen, ChilledTea, MKA), whereas Ranger was talking about possibilities.
Seconly, because of reasons I'm not allowed to detail.

[Aneninen]

DID YOU READ MY POST ON CHILLEDTEA,, I TOOK A LONG TIME TO WRITE MY OPINOIN INTO WORDS,, WHAT DOY OU THINK???

Kt , you want to sort Anen and annoy your scumread?
*points to Anen wagon*
I don't bite if you're town.

And I'm accused of tunnelling.
Dafuq.

Do you know what's going to hurt?
Even if you and Acryon manage to lynch me, you'll look terrible after my flip. Your plan, namely, quicklynch me before I kick in crumbled into dust long ago. My flip will show that I haven't been lying.

You don't think Burning Crystal is scum?

Nope. I think they're leaning town. KT is my top scum read actually. I think all his posts are meant to distract and shed doubts.

Why? This goes for both of the questions.

@KT, Because he's more concerned with his own hide than scumhunting. He basically yells poop at any argument he disagrees with and OMGUSes anything with a pulse. A wagon with myself, Almost and Dave (all pretty likely town) voted him. The response was to immediately wagon our slot. Anen hasn't done much in giving reads or propelling the game forward. All he's done is cry scumslip and attack credibility. He's letting others attempt to fill in what this mysterious scumslip is (hint: it doesn't exist). That's what Anen and MKA have done all game long. They've just sat back and let others fill in the blanks.

For a U-turning like that people get killed in civilized galaxies if it happens IRL. YOU've been discrediting me all the time and you're accusing me of doing so.
Also, you named the people voting for me wrong.
One other thing. You've been doing basically two things. (1) telling how scummy I (and MKA) am by repeating the same pigeon poop over and over and (2) speculating over the Setup, which is a well-known scum strategy to look like doing some scumhunting instead of doing so. (Titus, I bet you remember JK9++)

They say they are vanilla town as well. Considering that, unlike you, they should have zero information regarding setups. Instead they are rolling in setup guesswork. I just can't see vanilla giving a damn about setup, unless it actually mattered.

^^
So, ChilledTea has too noticed point (2) above.

CHILLEDTEA IS SCUM!!!!!!! VOTE CHILLEDTEA,,
VOTE: ChilledTEACUP

Why?

@Almost,

Me being protected is also frankly pretty easy to deduce.

First, Kuroi likely jailed his scumread.
Jailing a bodyguard claim in this setup is stupid, like I mentioned.
So, I was jailed.

There's a missing kill (which I explained above)

That leaves either a) both scum kills shot the jailor or b) I was shot and protected

Both scum shooting the jailor with terrible reads makes zero sense.

Thus, I was shot and protected.

c) You wanted to send the Nightkill and Kuroi stopped it.
However, the whole post is speculative and un-confirmable. But leaving out that possibility stands out blatantly.

@Almost,

There's a spot on the Anen wagon waiting for you.

Although I know you're not going to announce your target (nor do I want you to reply to this beyond acknowledged), I think checking me is the best for the town.
:nod:

Just lynch them Tomorrow if they manage to get me lynched Today. DO NOT FORGET sentences like that.

That's kind of a big ask for the town to

not pursue the two biggest wagons for the sake of a possible investigation

by you if and only if you even live, which seems unlikely.

Notice.
At that point BurningCrystal had 3 votes, Kain and me 2–2 votes.
That's how misrepresentation of the facts work.

1288 is a good post.
I don't think Burning Crystal is groupscum.
There's the obvious chance of Serial Killer, but definitely not groupscum.

No, that was a speculative post. They act as if they were scumhunting but apart from tunnelling and speculating they're doing nothing.

I've had thoughts of BC as town for quite a while, but needed to get a better handle on the motivation for setup talk.

VOTE: Aneninen
I was going to wait for answers but then realized I'm on the tail of the day plus I might be busy later tonight.
Fireworks are more fun anyway.

What sort of answers were you waiting for?
How did you get your BurningCrystal townread after this post:

The lack of a kill + probable MB + Kuroi scumreading you and presumably jailing you does not clear you as town.I could imagine a newer player making that logic mistake, but a hydra of two very experienced players?

Because you are the one that decided to run with it and entertain it. Responsible thing to do as town there is not speculate, because it takes us down a path that may be irrelevant. Instead you seem to fully embrace it without question.

Erm, I had one single post about it. And some players jumped onto me because of that. Others have posted plenty of things about the same topic. Your answer still doesn't explain why you don't bother about all those players.

Because you were the first to run with it, as I said. Some people can't help being followers. You, on the other hand, know better than to lead people there.

Wow-wow-wow, are you someone from our government? You're spreading bullshyt in the similar way.
This ALONE shows that you're NOT interested in reading the game, forming reads, you're simply after me because you're after me period.
Aaaaaaaaaaaand let's ignore the fact that I was the one who started scumreading you on Day1.
Had I done something similar you'd done, I'd have accused of OMGUS-ing by now.

This game would be a perfect illustration for an encyclopaedia for "Double standards".

[Aneninen]

Anen, you have a few points in 1315/1318 that I'm pretty sure even I could defend against, and I'm not Burning Crystal. I'll let them respond to them, but needless to say: I don't think you're right, here.

Ask your questions.

And I have something else to tell, and this goes for everyone.
Read the start of the Day again.
You'll see that the "case" on me came out of nowhere. BurningCrystal and Acryon desperately needed a reason for wagoning me. Why? Because of my naked vote. They thought I'm the Cop but they, of course, couldn't be sure... until I'm at L–1. Read that part again with this "what if..." assumption.
Now, compare those pages to the later ones. Posts are coming and going but their case never changes, never actually develops.
And no, I'm not telling whether I'm the Cop or not.

[Aneninen]

@Ranger, You seem to know Anen is reaching and fabricating things. Why no vote on Anen?

She had questions, not knowledge.
Yet again, you're misrepresenting the events.

Yeah, the difference between you and me is that I'm actually commenting on things and discussing reads other than you. You're not. Acryon was listening to the points against his read and commenting. You're just doing verbal poop. You're also not being voted for a single post. Not at all. I've said why you've been voted several times.

The good old trick. That's the difference

because you're saying so

. I've actually been commenting on many things, the problem is that you haven't liked them. Where's that "several times", by the way?
And my wagon was launched

because of one single post

, even if you post the opposite. (Even if I explained that post.)

Your first scumslip theory that you latched on was proven bad

Where was that proof again?

I find the end to 1318 particularly amusing since I actually stand up to government bureaucrats as my day job. Kinda scary what happened in Southern California though. I play mafia to forget that shit though.

About this, maybe post-game.
In our country things are, you know, a bit different. Here the government wants to make everyone but their buddies into slaves and get rid of everyone who's ill.

Your post conviently doesn't respond to people realizing my motivations but to whine and complain. What are your thoughts on Kain Tepes. Chilled Tea?

Chilled Tea I think is town. I can see real scumhunting effort there. The only problem is his predecessor, who looked much worse. I don't entirely get that Kop-read either.
KainThraddash is a big question mark. Firstly because of (ongoing, mustn't explain). Secondly, his post are changing. Slowly, very slowly – and that's the point. If he had a scumbuddy, the change would be much faster (or there would be no change at all). This, obviously, tells us nothing if we're in a Setup with SK.

By the way, Kuroi scumread Almost50 too. He could have targetted him as well. Or maybe Davesaz (so as to block the Nightkill at the other end).

[Aneninen]

Titus, what are your reads on Kop and Acryon?

Who the brown-pink flag flying on a rusty pole are you?

[Aneninen]

Ask your questions.

Basically I have no problem with a POE pool (what they actually said), which is not a "these players are scum" pool (what you assumed they said). I have no problem with their setup spec,

especially

not from Titus (I'd frankly be suspicious if Titus did NOT do setup spec short of the game being a full-on open...and maybe even then!). I also don't have a problem with their reads in of themselves: I think their scumread on you is

wrong

, but I do not think it is scum-motivated.
So like I said. I don't think they're scum.

What's the

town

motivation for discrediting me then?

As for me, I'm either a WBG or I'm scum. In the event I'm the WBG you don't block me either. Even if you don't buy it, you opt to protect someone you think is town. You don't even protect someone you're not sure about bc you would want the Cop to be able to investigate them.

Yeah, you're right.
But he still could have targetted Davesaz or the Nightkill could have been blocked because BurningCrystal had sent the Nightkill.

You've flipped your reads over that many times, soon enough, you may just get to the conclusion you are looking for. You've gone a whole 180 on Burning Crystal, then unvoted them and now your going to double think about BC.

This is what I'm getting from the inconsistencies of your reads. What made you change your mind and unvote Burning Crystal and now your going back onto that read to double check?

This was about ChilledTea. I'm just quoting this because it looks important if Kop flips town.
ChilledTea's answer were "over-explaining" himself.

I'm scum reading KT because I don't get any town vibes from his posts. But I'd rather let the whole trio of suspicious activity within anen/ranger/BC take it's course, as I strongly believe those 3 contain the most information that can be produced. KT's lynch, unfortunately doesn't give a great deal of information that could link things together, that's why he's a policy lynch.

And that's a post behind which I can see town motivation.

But I am so sceptical of lurkers. Lurkers reduce the game to basically townies blabbering with each other and then make the town lynch the scummiest town player. This is something I am learning quite a lot here on MafiaScum.

That's definitely true. I don't know whether it came from town or scum, though.

Aneninen:

Burning Crystal is not a lynch happening today. I'm trying to stop your lynch (which shouldn't go through), but I don't trust the town enough to assume it will never go through. So in the interest of self-preservation, can you vote Kop?

I care very little about self-preservation.
Actually my lynch would give us quite a lot of information, I think.
And it's a pity that neither the BC nor the Acryon lynch is happening Today.

RC alt-slipped and has been making a good chunk of the posts today and now the slot is trying to play dumb as to who is dead. The first thing hydras (if town) should be talking about is reads and where the game is.

...and we know it was

him

who had Alt-slipped, because of...????????????????

________

I can realize that I missed quite a lot of things Today. I mean, while I was pushing Acryon and BurningCrystal, I missed certain interactions. I should have focused more on players like Ranger and ChilledTea.

As for Kop, I think the same as I thought when TexCat got lynched. It's a compromise-lynch because we're running out of time. So, it's been another Day when scums have been wasting our time only to end up on another mislynch.
I know I'll look bad if Kop flips scum, but I don't really care. In that case one scum is out and I won't be a big loss dying.

[Aneninen]

Just dropping by to remind everyone.
BurningCrystal promised there would be a VCA Today because they had never done it before Day3.
Instead of a VCA we can see them tunnelling me futher.

I wonder why anyone thinks they're town.

[Aneninen]

Just talking out loud here, but we have a cop somewhere with two innocents. That gives us 3 confirmed towns. With 2 NKs, I almost wonder if its worth them claiming today to make our discussions a lot clearer while we still have townies alive. Someone feel free to tell me why this is bad, because I haven't thought it through TBH.

Mobilepost.
Acryon could be Godfather/alphaWW

[Aneninen]

Probably it's Setup 6 or 10

[Aneninen]

Although I don't have time to post Ive read Day2 especially latepart.
It's BC+Ranger and Acryon+???
Yeah I think I was wrong about zhat Acryon+BC yesterday

[Aneninen]

Sorry misread. Mobile and not wearing my glasses.
I meant 5 or 10.

[Aneninen]

Fck it
10 of 12
I can't see those cells there well either.

[Aneninen]

Before claiming.
Who else has claimed so far?

[Aneninen]

VT
and I hope townies will realize that those two who were advocating my claim that loud (without themselves claiming) are those two who've been scumread by me for ages and, not coincidentially, have been tunnelling me for ages.

Popcorn BurningCrystal.

[Aneninen]

VOTE: Xtoxm

I'll catch-up later. If needed. I don't think too many of you believe me.
At least I can work on E.B.O.N.Y.

[Aneninen]

I know it sounds lazy, but here's my idea.

If we have a guitly result, we should lynch that one. And we'll see Tomorrow what to do next.
I have quite a lot of thoughts, but I don't think we should "fork" all the things instead of focusing on the best lynch we can have.
One of these thoughts is KainThraddash. Right now he's acting as if he didn't know where he had to vote. Dafuq.

[Aneninen]

I'll catch up with the latestes later. I'm busy right now.

[Aneninen]

Acryon is obvtown.

I wonder where this came from.

Interesting, wolves must think they can beat us in LYLO. That gives me a huge clue, and I'm in no hurry to vote.

Didn't you get a result?

As if you had never seen this.

It should be clear already since I didn't get any strong town reads or guilties, but I was RB'd both nights.

It must be Acryon and BurningCrystal.
I could write a plenty of things but now everything depends on Davesaz and Ranger, not on me.

Here are some pieces of key information.

– I was the first one scumreading Davesaz on late-Day1.
– The early-Day2 wagon on me. I got dangerous after the point above. I think they hoped a quick-mislynch would happen.
– Then my wagon persisted while the BurningCrystal wagon was growing. Kop was the panic-counter later.
– Actually Titus has NEVER done any VCAs, although we've read a lot of excuses why NOT.
– Their interaction. In a Setup like this, bussing is bad strategy. Basically, they teamed up; and sometimes the easiest strategy is the best.
– It would be worth to read BC's reactions to the following topics: Missing Kill at Night1, Jailkeeper's move, Davesaz's role and results.
– Acryon has been building up the whole Aneninen/Ranger = scumteam thing for ages. No read progression at all.
– If something, just check the readlist in his 1234. Check his read on BurningCrystal. I've seen (and used) this kind of read on a scumbuddy zillions of times.

[Aneninen]

...and why did you assume a change?

[Aneninen]

The Setup says: the WW team's PRs are the same as the Mafia's.

Besides, you know there was no Roleblock, because of...?

[Aneninen]

Not ready to vote since I'm not 100% on my reads.

He's waiting because he wants to hammer.
Good to know.

VOTE: Acryon

[Aneninen]

Wellshytsorry.

I thought it was you and BC, Acryon.

I indeed voted for you because I thought you'd wanted to hammer me as scum.

[Aneninen]

And that was the crux of the problem, Acryon. Even if we lynch BC, I'd never have thought of Ranger next. Which is a pity because I remember assuming them as a team Yesterday. And I guess you'd have gone after me next.

[Aneninen]

So, yeah.

Pisskop modkilled me over a personal grudge.

I will never play another game modded by Pisskop and I suggest everyone else do the same.

Whut?
Any mod can make a mistake.
And need this happen here?

[Aneninen]

Later.
I have a bathroom to tidy up.

Also, need I care?

[Aneninen]

I've checked the Dead PT. I can see a mod error but I can't see an intention.
Obviously, mod errors hurt any game but it's neither useful nor fruitful to speculate over "what would have happened" things.

[Aneninen]

Actually it was Acryon and me who'd f-cked this up for town. Mostly me, but Acryon helped too. ^_^

[Aneninen]

As for the Setup.

Pisskop, I've been thinking. As I said, this Setup is very close to the one I designed (Matrix–14), although it seems to be based upon different things.
Doubling-up PRs in the table would result that the Setup could be solved later. Once a town-PR gets forced to out (just like in this game), things will be much easier for any scum faction(s). Unless it's Setup6 with 5 town-PRs: I don't think the scumteam could ever win that after a Day1 massclaim. (3 and 5 would be tricky, too). This is a common thing which could be improved.

Others too pointed it out that the Roleblocker being able to Block and Nightkill at the same time literally turns off a town-PR.

Almost every Setup has more than one Anti-Town faction, which makes the games very swingy. If any scum factions gets a good start at Day1, the Setup is pretty unforgiving for the town. And once some PRs are outed, the chance for a crosskill drops significantly... However, if a scum faction gets into trouble too early in a town-PR-heavy Setup, it's the opposite.

Maybe Daytalk is a thing which could be tinkered with. What if scum factions get Daytalk for ONE selected Day only?

[Aneninen]

More thoughts later.