Mini 1763 - Game OV

[Performer]

Hell yeah, I'm town again.
VOTE: Katsuki
because I initially joined due to him and a few others I recognized on the player list
his award isn't as frightening as I thought, based on his activity level and another detail from his profile, which you can find here:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=13446

VOTE: lapsa

would this be related his play in d1 from the game you replaced out of?
you know, the game that MarioManiac hosted

VOTE: Boonskiies

anything to do with what I think it has to do with?

VOTE: Boonskiies

hey rc wanna be pretend masons.

that would involve getting me night killed so no.

damn, I wanted to pretend to be Mason too
I've never been a Mason off or onsite

VOTE: Soapbar
For seeing 4 wagons and not voting on one.

what's up , Mario!!!! why did you feed your cat the muffin I brought over as a gift
muffins are for humans
-----

Spoiler: initiating playstyle imitations

of

talah, metal sonic, Thor666

[Performer]

Katsuki, iron, and Townie haven't posted so far.
Game solved.

[Performer]

If I get too many votes will it be like TOS and I get time to give my DEFENSE and to explain my role?? And people vote GUILTY or INNOCENT?

Can you link us to the this TOS site where you played "1000 games"
I want a better idea of your FM experience.

[Performer]

I am in the queue but I never got into a game because it is taking so long, so I join other queues, and now this game started first,!

That's actually a very good way to go about it. I put myself into multiple queues when I was newer onsite, when I had a lot more time, for newbie and normal games.

[Performer]

So you are all trying to lynch me now?? But I am town,

There are only 3 people on you right now...so I wouldn't say all of us are trying to lynch you .

Oh and FA, what's up dude! It's been awhile since I've seen you in that 2-man scum game as well as the themed game we won as town, where I was a Mailman LOL.

Lapsa I haven't forgotten your atrocious gambit that got me killed. I can't recall any games where I was PR and a town member got me killed like that.
I 've got my eye on you.

[Performer]

I have a lot of time now but people post slow and vote anyhow, any way why is jumping on vote trend not a tell here?? It is a MAJOR tell in TOS,

I know what you mean, I have some time right now too. People posting slow is sometimes extremely frustrating. Jumping on a vote for poor or no reasons is typically a scum sign.

[Performer]

Then I don't understand this website,
in TOS if there are 3 votes, all others will jump and inevitably lynch the victim, and people who jump on it tend to be evil roles or jesters!!
which means that if you have 3 votes you are dead pretty much unless during the defense most people vote you INNOCENT

Oh. That's also a reason why I think this is the best version of FM in terms of normalcy and balance - which you'll find in normal and newbie games.
On day 1 in this 13-player game, you need 7 votes to get lynched, not 3.

[Performer]

@Kain if you have anymore questions about how the site works, you might as well ask them now before things get more serious and before more people post

[Performer]

No you will need 7 votes too in TOS except that once 2 or more peopel vote for the same person other people just follow suit and the person will be lynched... it is really annoying because sometimes people vote for no reason, but at least in DEFENSE you can tell everyone your role and results and town will vote INNOCENT...!!

Since this game does not have DEFENSE, when should I reveal my role??

We have players like that as well on this site. For example, Albert B. Rampage sometimes does that, and so does Lapsa.

If Lapsa has 5 votes for example, and you add one more, you do it like this:
"
VOTE: Lapsa
L-1"

So he'll be at 6 votes. The next vote is 7th, which is a hammer, and shortly after that - the moderator reveals his role.

[Performer]

You know what I'm pissed about
I'm pissed about a particular mod who replaced me
I lost track of time , it's not like I intentionally wanted a replace
so mad... - _-
-----
anyway
@Townie/Lapsa/Katuski
what are you guys doing, talking in your scum day chat and just laughing at us right now?

I sincerely hope there's no day chat mechanic in this game

[Performer]

Hmm. It appears I forgot about iraonavp.
I looked him up and fortunately there's meta on him as well as other players in that game, who're in this game:
forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64581

[Performer]

Spoiler: off topic at FA_Q2

Do not speak of that 2 man scum game - got my ass handed to me in that one and I should not have

Well tbh...2-man scum team with 2 Mafia Vigilantes and a 1-shot Bp Doc....threw everyone off....

Hell yeah, I'm town again.
VOTE: Katsuki
because I initially joined due to him and a few others I recognized on the player list
his award isn't as frightening as I thought, based on his activity level and another detail from his profile, which you can find here:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=13446

THIS BOONSKIIES WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT ABOUT THE AWARD IS NOT FRIGHTENING

THIS BOONSKIIES WOULD ALSO LIKE TO REMIND PERFORMINGNOOB OF THE SCARCE NUMBER OF PLAYERS TO HAVE BROKEN 10K POSTS

ANYHOW

HAMMER+1

VOTE: LAPSA

Why are you referring to yourself as a version of Boonskies? Does it mean you're going to lurk like him? I really dislike that.

Spoiler: off topic at Lapsa

Lapsa I haven't forgotten your atrocious gambit that got me killed.
I can't recall any games where I was PR and a town member got me killed like that.
I 've got my eye on you.

it was your distrust that initiated it - you missed tryinging

had had scum neighborizers in 2 consequitive games and that odd modifier made shit way too confusing

I didn't miss anything. I fully rejected the ludicrous idea and it was a major contribution to our loss.
JarJar also played very slyly as scum, that game.
Anyway , I just hope you learned from that game.

[Performer]

But I am good at it, I won 700+ games and only lost less than 300

A vast majority of the players don't think things through while here every action gets criticized. People think things out here. Set up spec is unknown so fake claims become viable here and scum can always claim vanilla town and no one will question it because it's a legit possibility that all that are left is vanilla. In town of salem you can just all claim roles day 1 and lynch the people that conflict have conflicting roles you can break it in 100s of way as town. Tbh the reason town doesn't win so much is the amount of stupidity on there.

Thanks for expounding on ToS - very enlightening.

VOTE: Kain

his d1 80 vote on Soap for no valid reason, was scummy
Mario's 79 analysis on him sounded reasonable

[Performer]

Thoughts on the people on the Lapsa wagon:
Garmr voted him for RVS, I did it to demonstrate an example to KT at the time, RC hopped on that wagon, Kat addressed me in 73 and voted Lapsa.

None had any good reason but the latter two's actions were most questionable.

[Performer]

@kain vote is sufficient and you are ignoring me

No it really is not. You are asking questions but not a whole lot of actual input and posting VC's. Looks like a tryhard.

Unfortunately based on my game with Lapsa when we were both town, and based on Lapsa's meta - he carries an early-game playstyle that looks quite...mysterious to say the least. I find his alignment becomes clearer down the road, however - based on what he does and what he doesn't do.

[Performer]

I didn't miss anything

you did. my obvious hint that i'm desperate to figure out who's your recruit

I guess we'll just agree to disagree as clearly you believe fake claims are an oh-so-fabulous strategy for us to win against scum.

his d1 80 vote on Soap for no valid reason, was scummy

Perhaps it was a poor vote, but how is it scummy?

It's as I stated - no valid reason. How are you seeing Kain voting Soap for nothing, to be a "poor vote" instead of a scummy vote?

[Performer]

RC began the wagon on me, then Kat joined in on 180 because he thought my 144 & 145 were "scummy." And then Boon joins on 189 to "add pressure."

Weird? Yes, to say the least.
Scummy? Just might be, considering how RC & Boon's votes have 0 good reason.

This boonskiies still would rather go Iaor, but Performer pressure is nice.

Your vote on me is pointless. What're you trying to achieve?
VOTE: Boonskies
------
@ Kat what's "scummy" about my 144 & 145?

[Performer]

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

I loathe you utterly to the depth of my person.

RC do you have meta with Lapsa?

[Performer]

VOTE: Performer

Hate that reaction.

and the continued empty post by RC about why he's voting me.
this is looking like it's going to end up being you stubbornly scumreading me, like you did in the game where we were both town vs Fire/Xtox/Espeon
------

I mostly voted MarioManiac because I felt he was scum, and maybe I'm not entirely sure why I felt that.

@ira This is an odd post. Penny for your thoughts on the people on my wagon?

[Performer]

@garm

depends on lot of things. even in circus game that move had a chance to end up being brilliant

Yeah no, it wouldn't have ended up brilliant. If it went another way, like I told you, people probably would've believed your fake claim. Then I would've probably been mislynched - to which meant I'd flip that PR role in that game. Which would come back to people wondering why you fake claimed in the first place. 1 action leads to a series of other actions.

You need to drop this talk about that because I am still angry about that, I have a protective streak for my PRs, and this particular talk about that isn't leading us anywhere. I'm getting weary of this talk.

The fact he is eager to claim now probably indicates he is town and scum I think he would be very hesitant to do so according to tos meta.

I'm not familiar with ToS meta and how exactly they play. The fact that KT wanted to reveal twice for no good reason, is a terrible idea - scummy? Probably, probably not. I can't tell if it's that or him being super new here. But what I've been seeing more recently from him, is he's engaging and not just asking about how to play on here. That's a good thing for town and he just might be town.

[Performer]

Performer comes off as incredibly scummy. What I noticed is his habit to push his own version into things. Like my original vote on lapsa he was saying was that because of last game. Then 146 was him trying to put anyone on the same wagon after him in a bad light even through it was rvs. I think his going for low hanging fruit with his vote on kain and boon.

Wasn't that was my very 1st post in the game during RVS?... I posted that you voted Lapsa because a of a finished game, partly as a joke and partly to see how you'd react. You responded that you recognized him, which is a null reply to me.

As for that wagon on Lapsa, I find things that're scummy and bring them up . I don't just idly sit back and not call people out. I don't just wait for others to analyze things. If I voted someone for no reason, others would jump on me as well. The fact you, Garmr, didn't find RC & Boon highly questionable in their voting me - you need to question why they'd do that.

This wagon on me is absurd.

[Performer]

Not_Mafia replaces TOWNIE247.

Welcome, Not_Mafia. I can't recall ever playing with you. Thoughts on anything?
I seem to recall your predecessor claimed 1-shot Bulletproof for no reason? Why?

I have found one thing that gives me concern from rc but I want to see how that plays out since no one really mentioned it.

If you wanted to let it play out before acting on it, why would you even bring it up?

@Garmr you saw something from RC that was concerning, yet you're willing to let it play out when we're already past the halfway point. I'm looking forward to what you think was concerning.

id says he doesnt like earlygame inactivity which i dont really think is a tell.
ill let boon respond to #175 but i dont think its a good reason either.
performer's vote was to do with no-reason vote, again not a good reason.

basically i'm going to be That Guy who sits in the corner and criticizes wagons till either i or somebody else finds something scummy.

Based on this player list, off the top of my head - I remember Mario/FA/Lapsa seeing my town play after night 2 and/or all the way into endgame - either when we were both town or in a game you hosted. You guys know full well I'm one of those types who doesn't manipulate his meta well, at all.

I really don't see how you still see KT as scummy. Your read on him hasn't evolved?

[Performer]

RC why are you being

weird

?

RC is always weird. In fact, he's a self-proclaimed wildcard .
not sure what on earth he's trying to do in this game though

[Performer]

@Lapsa what specifically do you find weird about Not_Mafia and my interaction?
@Insidious it was only a reaction test, like the one I used in Mario’s Circus Mafia game
-----
Garmr it sounds like you believe I voted KT because of ToS? That’s a radical assumption. I was trying to better understand KT’s play there compared to here. Unlike people who play with “vibe/feeling/gut,” I actually look at meta and other factors, and in his case he had meta on ToS instead of this site.

Kat voted me for 2 posts that he still never answered me on. Boon voted me for gut. I’m still not getting why Garmr voted me .

[Performer]

@Lapsa what specifically do you find weird about Not_Mafia and my interaction?

in my mind - town perf is very paranoid. i'm not seeing that

!mafia (i'm gonna call him foo) seems fairly disinterested in game

his #277 feels empty - random quotes is what i see

on #281 foo is defending you

you aren't familiar with foo yet seem to be uncannily friendly (e.g. #278)
+ bullshit about bulletproof claim

NM isn't making sense with his eye rolls, I can say that.
This game has slowed to a crawl and it's just day 1 so that's very concerning.
The mod hasn't prodded Katsuki either, despite him not posting for over 3 days. I'm looking forward to him being replaced so we can get better input from that slot.

My reaction tests are carefully plotted out and not randomly based on whim - it's the same as the one I used to call out Skybird, who happened to be Mafia Role Cop.

[Performer]

@ira I think your vote on Garmr is misplaced. The guy seems town. His explanation for his vote on me seems to be coming from a town thought process, and so does his continued engagement with me - though he's voting in the wrong direction.

Who are your other scumreads?
-----
@Garmr I voted Boon because of the following:

which is enforced by him voting Mario who is like the easiest person to vote for no reason on this entire site

This boonskiies still would rather go Iaor, but Performer pressure is nice.

2 fluff statements along with a vote on me,

finally

explained by his 284 post – where he scumreads only me, by ridiculous reasoning that I’ve given him “no town vibes.”

He had a few posts after that one that were just socializing and his 332 is an unsatisfactory catchup post.

Despite the questionable 284 about me being his only scumread because of "no town vibes," in the rest of his ISO, I do see he posted about people not reading (looks like genuine frustration), and he thinks he's off about something - could hint at him trying to figure things out.
I find it harder to believe he's scum than town, because though he's questionable in his posts, he's answered me and has engaged with others.
UNVOTE:

[Performer]

VOTE: Katsuki You're 16, yet you're saying you have too much (paid?) work to put a little investment into this game. I find that very hard to believe to be true, and you've yet to answer why you think I'm scummy when I asked you about it. Your posts about asking Boonskies to join you to wagon me, I'm not sure what on earth that's about but it sure is mysterious and that doesn't cause me to trust you, either.

You're not contributing much either, it looks like you're still trying to slide by as scum.

[Performer]

Checking in, should be catching up by tomorrow

[Performer]

@KT I voted you later because of something Mario brought up in his d1 79 analysis, which looked reasonable. My read later changed on you and I already went into that. Didn't I already mention this, or have you forgotten? Boonskies is right, you don't look like you're reading closely.
-----

But PERFORMER taught me a bit on how to play the game.... i dont want to lynch him???

But PERFORMER taught me a bit on how to play the game.... i dont want to lynch him???

this is a bad attitude. why do you say this? are you trying to protect performer?

This is a sudden and strange accusation from Mario. Mario should know my town play very well by now and I've seen his scum play

and

his town play. If this is scum Mario, he must be trying some different playstyle. However, I don't think he's scum this game. I wonder what your reads are at the moment, Mario.

I hate you all

deadline is in 3 days so i will try my best to get to this today...

motherfucker I didn't know about this.

I looked over FA's ISO, between him and Performer, I'd rather Performer. a lot of his posts are just fluff, he tried to mislynch the most obvious newbtown of all time (Kain), and 145 and 146 are just prime scumposts

VOTE: Performer

Yeah I don't like this guy. The fact that he's ok with lynching FA or me, two people who're making sense and responding to terrible votes against us (RC/Boon/Not Mafia/Katsuki) - I'd be fine with Soap's lynch today as well as Katsuki's. I see Soap has the same reason as Katsuki for voting me - regarding the latter scumbag, he hasn't ever answered my question either. What's scummy about 145 and 146? You guys are completely misrepresenting.

So if we policy lynch anyone, it's going to be RC.

Nope.

[Performer]

Soap mentioned my wagon was reachy in 325 over 4 days ago, then he votes me today for the same reason Katsuki gave. If that's not suspicious, then I'm Donald Trump.

Welcome Ircher. RC being replaced by Ircher , that is extremely unfortunate. But that does indicate something to me – most likely that slot is town. Scum would be laughing and enjoying this situation with this ridiculous wagon on me. In addition, the game has been progressing quite slowly. Wouldn’t make sense for scum RC to replace out in this situation.

361 & 363 - KT I want to see your thought process on these. Or are you just too busy putting out weak, unexplained votes on me?

[Performer]

@Boon you’ve had your vote on me for the longest time since 2/20 and you haven’t changed it, that’s just sad that your d1 is supposedly this unremarkable, that your reads don’t evolve. Though you yourself attested your d1 is bad - maybe I’m wrong that you’re town and maybe you’re scum after all.

I see where RC is coming from, and I’m sick of you as well.

[Performer]

you ignored everything Kain said in post 80 and after (he legitimately thought I was being serious in post 77) and in 146 it looks like your trying to throw suspicion (at least to me it looks like) onto Kat and RC when we were still in RVS at the time those 2 posted.

@Soap I kept tabs on KT's activity, and he continued engaging - which tends to be town. I stopped scumreading him .
As for throwing suspicion, I incorporate wagon analysis no matter what the stage is, when my wagon gets substantial. As scum I couldn't care less, but as town it'd be mindless to not analyze your own wagon, when it gets sizable.

In general, I'd throw suspicion at anything I find questionable. Otherwise we'd be lurkers, which I'm obviously not fond of and that habit is deadly to town.

how can I misrep

what i never represented in the first place

i only said those posts were scummy and I didn't post why since I thought it looked obvious so how did I misrepresent you.

Well, at least in your post, you explained part of why you thought I'm scummy - for 146, you thought it was because I was suspicious of Kat & RC in RVS. That still doesn't make sense to me though, since I already stated why. RC for empty vote and Kat for a poor vote - later on, my scumread maintained on Kat because of my 340. If you have an issue with how I scumhunt, I suggest it be for something with substantial basis. Right now you're looking opportunistic, saying the wagons were reachy and you were having a tough time, then all of a sudden pulling out the same reason as Kat to vote me, because we were close to deadline. That sequence of events doesn't look town.

Your strange interpretation of my 145 scumread of KT, is an ancient reason. That was over ages ago, 10 days ago - after all this time you finally bring it up on 3/1, as 1 of your justifications in voting me?? What're your other scumread and why? Or are you going to be like the disappointing Boonskies and say I'm your only scumread?

[Performer]

To add to the suspicion, since Feb 26th of irao's vote on me, he has yet to give valid reasoning for voting me
Though I haven't gotten a scum feeling from his ISO, his empty vote definitely raises eyebrows

[Performer]

Because iron is more scummy lapsa is constantly frustrating no matter his alignment.

I can agree on the part about Lapsa. Irao has been growing scummy, more on that below.
-----
@Boon I think your list should be Katsuki and Soapbar instead of Lapsa and KT. Lapsa - though he gets on my nerves , I've seen his town play and he seems to harbor potential. KT is staying active and looks like he's continuing to try, which is typically good for town.
-----

@mod please prod Katsuki

My vote on this slot is going nowhere and people aren't voting him. I'm thinking I've been in the wrong direction toward Katsuki today, as much I dread admitting this.
-----

I feel like irons vote was the scummiest of them through and it's that slot that's made me paranoid that performer will flip town.

VOTE: Garmr

It's safe again, don't worry.

To add to the suspicion, since Feb 26th of irao's vote on me, he has yet to give valid reasoning for voting me
Though I haven't gotten a scum feeling from his ISO, his empty vote definitely raises eyebrows

I was voting you because you're scum-aligned, and voting scum-aligned players furthers my town-aligned wincon.

So iraonavp left his vote on someone for a while , I asked him about his thoughts, he voted me, I called him out on the poor vote, and he replies with this. He voted Garmr in a super odd 438, scumread Ircher (in a very odd-to-understand 443), and even put an empty vote on FA.
VOTE: iraonavp

[Performer]

I FIND LAPSA more scummy, but i have not been observing IRON because he has been blending into the background??I FEEL like he is town though but will READ his posts......

I suspect MARIO a bit but IM NOT SURE anymore....!!!

KT you have got to start providing more elaboration on why you townread and scumread people. I'm not certain why you capitalized FEEL and READ in your second sentence in this post.

And when you post about things you plan to act on, it would be very helpful if you follow-up on it - by providing what you think you found or if you didn't find anything worthwhile, then let us know anyway. Because maybe you noticed something I or someone else hasn't.

I have a suspicion why you're voting Mario and I don't think it's a good enough reason to think he's scum, which I don't think he is. But I want to clarify from you - why exactly are you voting Mario anyway?

[Performer]

Please

say we got that extension.

I don't think the extension will help and I don't think the mod believe we're justified a deadline extension. I pmed him yesterday about prodding but he never read my message, which tells me he's been busy (?)

[Performer]

Also @mod: please prod Soapbar too

[Performer]

@Mario according to the mod's previous post, deadline is at about 4pm PST today, so it hasn't expired. Not sure where you getting that d1 expired.
@iraon claim please

[Performer]

That conflicts with his updated 1.06...I don't know what the mod is doing haha

[Performer]

Damnit FA's dead. Whenever he and I are both town - such as in this game, we are monsters against scum.
-----
@droog Why do you like Lapsa? Explain.

i caught up during the night
this was the most entertaining game to read
in a long time

Why is that?

some asorted reads

town

irchir/rc -- mostly because of rc
he cut to the center of a few things i wanted said

kain -- leading obvtown newbtown
though i have fun imagining him as a thor alt

faq (shucks)

lapsa -- i like the cut of his jib this game

scum

boonskiies -- not suce why i find him scummier
he just seems different from ton boon ive seen before

This is a super strange reads list. What meta are you basing your read of Boon off of? Just so you know, Boon has this growing trend of scumreading me every game, which doesn't instill my confidence in him being town.

Now, is anyone going to actually read my notes from yesterday, as it was quite apparent that you didn't yesterday.

I read it in d1. Ircher, please help me with pressure on folks. There are repeat offenders like Kat & NM who've been way too strange for way too long. I'm looking forward to the low-hanging Kat being replaced with someone who wants to contribute more.

[Performer]

hi clown

Lapsa, thoughts?

[Performer]

D1 ending votecount

iraonavp (7) - Garmr, MarioManiac4, Ircher, Lapsa, Performer, Not Mafia, Boonskies
Performer (2) - Katsuki, Soapbar
FA_Q2 (2) - InsidiousLemons, iraonavp
Not_Mafia (1) - FA_Q2
Mario (1): KT

FA's last vote was on NM. FA flipped Town Vig.
NM voted ira.
Later, NM wanted FA's death in 495, 3/4 (his vote still on ira). On the same date, only a few posts later in 518, he suddenly stated preference for No Lynch while his vote was on ira.
What do you think of the Insidious slot now? I noticed you scumread that slot in d1.

[Performer]

FA called Lapsa/NM/Boonskies possibly scum.

@Boon what do you find scummy about Lapsa? Serious question.

@Lapsa how about your thoughts on any other folks than droog. Reads list for instance.

I speculate that scum has strong roles, seeing as we had a Town Vig.

[Performer]

Now i'm curious how you come to the conclusion of a strong scum team.

My thought process was that Vig can kill others, so with that kind of town power, scum power would be necessary. This is a balanced and normalized game after all.

[Performer]

And if I was scum, nobody would be scum reading me.

This is untrue. Despite having less experience in my first game with Boon a while back, I eventually scumread him (I think he was teamed with Titus). Anyway.

placement on Irao, stance on it, and FA.

would argue it's better than yours

That's the extent of your rebuttal to Boon?
And droog missed me on his reads list for some reason, as did you.
-----
@anyone what're your stances on the lurkers Kat & Soapbar?

[Performer]

sheeping irch

VOTE: Katsuki

I can't tell if you are being genuine or are scum buddying to me. You do realize your on my "next to lynch" list, right?

I'm convinced about Lapsa now. Looking back at d1 posts - the sideline jabs from him on d1, constant turnaround posts against my questioning of him, the way he's been acting on d2 on pgs 23-24. Ircher, join me with Boon on the Lapsa wagon.
VOTE: Lapsa

I foresee Kat gets replaced soon, hopefully with Antihero or someone who provides more substance.

[Performer]

Did a skim and wow - Lapsa does not look like scum.

VOTE: Katsuki
Bring him to L-1 please. He posted why he thought I'm scum, I questioned him for elaboration, he played under the radar for rest of d1, continued ignoring my question, posts a full-of-hot-air post about forgetting his case on d2.
Let me guess - he'll return later, take full advantage of this particular mod for not punctually prodding him, and he'll post some more dirt-low posts about me being scum. I don't think so, scum.

Iirc, I've noticed a pattern with Garmr:
-ira voted me>Garmr naked-voted ira
-Mario voted Lapsa>Garmr naked-voted Mario

There's something odd about that pattern.

Don't have much time tonight, planning on full catchup tomorrow.

[Performer]

Added multiple quotes to address , clicked Reply after the several-page catchup, and WOW. What a waste of my time the quotes didn't generate.

I'll address what I remember, with a big-picture approach:
-@Boon you better be damn sure about Kat not being scum. I'll unvote him for now though he's still troubling to the point of looking scummy. If he/KT/Soap are left at LyLo, though I wouldn't like the chances of town victory in that case, it should still not be too tough for 2/3 of them to catch the remaining scum based on the horrendous play that's transpired between the 3
-KT's reads list was lackluster. He's thinking I'm possibly scum for a reason stale as the bread on my work desk from 2 days ago. Already addressed that ToS talk that Garmr brought up in d1. You're either not following closely enough and need to up your towngame, or you aren't actually town
-Lapsa I understand where you're coming from with a particular post of yours, because after my catchup, I began wondering the same thing. I'm not going to say anymore specifics because that could be detrimental to town, but I will tell you post game...just remind me in case I forget
UNVOTE:

[Performer]

Here for about the next 30 minutes if anyone wants to engage with me about anything.

[Performer]

Mario's 714 logic for voting Soap was very odd. Boon’s 718 made sense from a town pov, in voting Mario. Mario’s 724 about Lapsa possibly fakeclaiming so that Soap is probably not scum, it sounds to me he's bending Lapsa's talk about the supposed guilty claim and PR claim. Lapsa, dude...lol. You are TWISTED for your fake claims. For a moment, I thought you were truth claiming a guilty on Soap but if that was the case, we'd have lynched him by now.
I bet you fake claim in your scum games too? Lol.
Then all this talk from Mario about an SK…which makes no sense in this game, based on 1 nk of the Town Vigilante and having 13 players.
VOTE: Mario
L-1

[Performer]

and 5th spot on mario wagon is quite juicy

I don't see why people think wagon spots are alignment indicative. Of the several tools we can use in scumhunting, the "when" isn't alignment indicative to me.

Mario's 714 logic for voting Soap was very odd. Boon’s 718 made sense from a town pov, in voting Mario. Mario’s 724 about Lapsa possibly fakeclaiming so that Soap is probably not scum, it sounds to me he's bending Lapsa's talk about the supposed guilty claim and PR claim. Lapsa, dude...lol. You are TWISTED for your fake claims. For a moment, I thought you were truth claiming a guilty on Soap but if that was the case, we'd have lynched him by now.
I bet you fake claim in your scum games too? Lol.
Then all this talk from Mario about an SK…which makes no sense in this game, based on 1 nk of the Town Vigilante and having 13 players.
VOTE: Mario
L-1

HOW WAS IT "VERY ODD"? If you're going to call my points "odd" and "horrible" you could at least try to explain why. And Boon just said "i dont like his push on soap." How is that in any way a point against me?
And what exactly in my 724 would you call incorrect?

714 - It was odd in that you stated if Soap flipped town, Lapsa would be scum. I find the latter hard to believe after seeing what I saw on d2 from Lapsa. Boon was thinking the same I was - that it looked scummy in your logic on Soap .
As for 724, it looked to be you were answering for Lapsa, before asking him about that weird move.

[Performer]

@Mario have you played with Lapsa before
It's not looking like you have..?

[Performer]

If we do not lynch Soapbar today, I 100% refuse to take Lapsa as conf town.

mario, why such stubborness?

don't you agree that's a viable path to take?

what exactly lies beneath 'i 100% refuse to take Lapsa as conf town' ?

is that == lapsa conf scum?

would you change your mind in case soap flips scum later on?

basically;
you are not conftown from my point of view. if we lynched two non-soapbars today and tommorow, and you were like "ok lol lylo i'm gonna lynch soapbar" I would powerlynch you with prejudice. It's certainly a new playstyle as scum but it makes sense. If you refuse to lynch your guilty, we can never know you are town. And if you don't get nightkilled...
well.

@ircher; why do you believe that, or were those numbers just pulled out of thin air?

Ok. The scum half of Mario's readslist, I'll get to in a bit.
But this post of Mario's, along with his readslist and seemingly reasonable engagement with Lapsa , I see where he's coming from in pushing on Soap and Lapsa now.
VOTE: Soapbar
Typically I'd call someone fake claiming to be scum but then there was talk about how Lapsa was kidding. I think Mario has an excellent point about Soap and that we can look at Lapsa more in the following day, if Soap flips town.
----
@Mario alright. Is this also your first time playing with Ircher?
I have meta on Lapsa as well as Ircher and I believe I can read them fairly well. Ircher has less experience than many folks and he has his own way of posting, which looks odd. Also, Ircher does something I did often back in the day - he wants to use up as much time as possible before lynching, and is adverse to putting people at L-2 or L-1. Fortunately after my recent game with him and something ongoing, it looks like he is improving.
-----
Note: catching up on older posts , then addressing newer ones

[Performer]

For the skeptics about wagoning Soap - take a look at his ISO. The only votes he made are on 3 Townies - FA, Ira, Perf.
I find it difficult to think he's town based on his ISO.

[Performer]

The Case of Soap

Voted ira in d1 on post 74

Soap lurked and posted only 44 times in this game (flying under the radar via lurking). Take a look at that one and you'll see it's resembling this one - he was scum in that game:

forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=64581&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select[]=27091&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go

He was also ok with lynching FA or me, two people who're making sense and responding to terrible votes against us (RC/Boon/Not Mafia/Katsuki) .

In d1, he mentioned people on my wagon, were reaching.
Then 4 days later out of nowhere, he made the opposite decision by voting me. He sheeped the same reason Katsuki gave. Along with an indecisive 325 and other unsubstantial posts like criticizing my post (without engaging me on it) and telling people to kiss in 348, I don't foresee moving my vote on d2. This is whopping evidence.
-----
On a related note, with further thought into the Soapbar subject - I see why Lapsa thought Mario could be bussing his buddy. I don't believe I'll be voting either of those 2 today though , as they're both townreads of mine now. And before anyone thinks the 3 of us are Masons, you've gotta be kidding me.

[Performer]

For the skeptics about wagoning Soap - take a look at his ISO. The only votes he made are on 3 Townies - FA, Ira, Perf.
I find it difficult to think he's town based on his ISO.

Counting yourself as town on that list is pretty bad since that is most likely his bus vote it's like your trying to use his votes to make yourself look town instead of trying to find scum.

No...Garmr, if you've played enough with me, you'll know I'm one of those folks who doesn't manipulate his meta easily. I will defend myself and can get tough against folks who scumread me when I'm town. Throw all the shade you want, but I want to see you scumhunt others too. You've been voting others who've voted others, and you've consistently scumread me from d1 to d2 - yes, I've been keeping track.

I

have

seen 2 of your town games before though and you seem to have potential. But from what I've been seeing in this game, I'm going to put you from townread to null, which is something that's very uncomfortable (null people are hard-to-read people in my book, which can mean they are scum).

I doubt that mario is actually so horrible at this game to actually think performer would be town. Even if he did he wouldn't rate performer so high in his reads list and he gives a bs reasoning.

Mario has even moderated a game of mine where I was 1-shot Town Neighborizer. He has extensive experience with my meta as town and we were scum in 1 game (interesting fact: that was my 2nd game on this site and I was terrible and never cared about improving my scum game LOL).

[Performer]

The Case of Soap

Voted ira in d1 on post 74

Soap lurked and posted only 44 times in this game (flying under the radar via lurking). Take a look at that one and you'll see it's resembling this one - he was scum in that game:

forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=64581&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select[]=27091&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go

He was also ok with lynching FA or me, two people who're making sense and responding to terrible votes against us (RC/Boon/Not Mafia/Katsuki) .

In d1, he mentioned people on my wagon, were reaching.
Then 4 days later out of nowhere, he made the opposite decision by voting me. He sheeped the same reason Katsuki gave. Along with an indecisive 325 and other unsubstantial posts like criticizing my post (without engaging me on it) and telling people to kiss in 348, I don't foresee moving my vote on d2. This is whopping evidence.

There's a claimed guilty.
-----
On a related note, with further thought into the Soapbar subject - I see why Lapsa thought Mario could be bussing his buddy. I don't believe I'll be voting either of those 2 today though , as they're both townreads of mine now. And before anyone thinks the 3 of us are Masons, you've gotta be kidding me.

FTFY

Mario will you stay alive with me into LyLo this game? I was hoping FA would too
People typically kill me by night 3, at latest. They don't want to leave me alive because when I'm alive into later stages, we end up dwindling down the scum team to the point that I never lost in the last day of a game where I was town. Aka my game with implosion/I am Innocent/RadiantCowbells vs Firebringer/Xtoxm/Espeonage, and the game with Albert B. Rampage/Titus/SilverWolf/Vedith/Netherspite vs Shinobi/Shiro/The Silver Bard, and Firebringer (3p Survivor who we lynched on d1 LOL).

2 of my proudest games ever (as town of course).

[Performer]

Votecount Day 2 as of pg 32

MarioManiac4 (3) - KainTepes, Garmr, Boonskiies
Soapbar (2) - MarioManiac4, Performer
Katsuki (1) - droog
Performer (1) - Katsuki

Not Voting (4) - Soapbar, Ircher, Not_Mafia, Lapsa

11 alive, takes 6 to lynch
-----

Not_Mafia- Null, is going to be very hard to read.
droog- I didn't have an opinion on IL and this guy comes in and just defends Lapsa. I can see this as scum especially if Lapsa is town. Right now I'd like to see if he has an opinion on current events.
Katsuki- Null, is going to be very hard to read.
Garmr- Reacts in a weird and unprovoked way when attacked- "you can go fck yourself because im town" is a bit weird for a town who knows mislynches happen and is more likely from someone who has something to hide.
Soapbar- Basically a known mafioso who we refuse to lynch. There's probably scum influence in that and I'm not going to completely rule out a Soap!town Lapsa!scum scenario in which Lapsa refuses to lynch Soap intil LYLO to get a scum win.

@Mario this latter half is interesting. I agree with your reads overall, and there are 2 parts I haven't thought of so your perspective is very helpful here - especially toward Gar/droog. For instance, droog - from my memory, his towngame showed him being more engaged. In this game, he replaced in, posted, then has disappeared. I remember reading Insidious, his predecessor, as town based on ISO. I need to ISO droog and review his posts.

As for the 2 null folks in your reads - in my experience and from advice for town play, null slots should typically not be trusted. Doesn't mean we can't work with them or have them work with us, but null slots are there for a reason...whether they're being consistently vague, too brief, lurking, contradictory, misrepresenting, etc.

I'm at a different place toward Garmr than you. I have him as null as you may have seen from my previous post. Makes me rather other uncomfortable as I may have read him wrong on d1.

I definitely appreciate the reads list , as I haven't thought of droog and Garmr in those ways.

[Performer]

some asorted reads

town

irchir/rc -- mostly because of rc
he cut to the center of a few things i wanted said

kain -- leading obvtown newbtown
though i have fun imagining him as a thor alt

faq (shucks)

lapsa -- i like the cut of his jib this game

scum

boonskiies -- not suce why i find him scummier
he just seems different from ton boon ive seen before

I didn't give it much thought when I read his reads list a few days ago, but looking back at his ISO - his elaboration on his townreads of KT & Lapsa, are super mysterious. His scumread of Boon is him basing it 100% of meta.

VOTE: KainTepes
Capital letters oh boy

InsidiousLemons, are you satisfied with the current position of your vote?

Not really, no. Despite the fact that Kain is easily aggravated and seems not to have much idea what he's doing, I don't think he's scum. I don't really like the way that Boonskiies and Katsuki are interacting, but I feel like it's a bit ballsy as a scum move. Still though, I don't like Boon's general lack of activity, so I suppose I'll
VOTE: Boonskiies

-----
@Kain & Boon what do you guys think of the Insidious/droog slot
Also
@Lapsa what do you think of that slot

[Performer]

@Mod Isn't Droog due a prod? Its been 50 hrs

I might replace out as well. I am seriously not liking this game because there have been several prods that have gone over. I wish there was more firm enforcement of the prodding policy, and/or a Backup Mod to help with prods/replacements of inactive people. We're going to lose at this point because scum will take advantage of the lackadaisical approach to prods.

i don't know, perf

garm`s attitude towards me has been different than prev game (i remember "drunken" posting), but that prev game might be the cause to that

i townread lemon, that's a thing

another thing i have forgot to mention

soap played with fuckyou previously - explains the NK

Then vote Soap with me.
-----
I find it disappointing that not enough people commented on my Soap case and that people are keeping the Mario wagon alive. Soap is as scummy as the definition in the the FM Dictionary.

@Not Mafia I'm curious, what're your reads? Your minimalist approach is putting me on high alert

[Performer]

Fuck you i was totally misrepped by performers 702 and the fact i already had a scum read on ira is obvious get on my level pal.

???
Dude I never twisted your posts. I simply pointed out something I found to be a pattern, and I've found in games observed and played, that scum tend toward comfortable patterns, such as consistent lurking, consistent misrep, consistently vague posts, consistent patterns of questionable voting, and so on.

Actually nah mario can **** himself I'm vanilla town replace me out rc had the right idea with replacing out I don't even care that I would probably win this game by staying in it if I have to put up with mario.

Can't tell if this is serious of a scum ploy regarding replacement.

[Performer]

ebwop: Can't tell if this is serious or a

[Performer]

To say mario and performer our both scum if one is scum and how they both are town if ones town is also fucking stupid I just went over over how they can't both be scum together from soaps posts. Yes they can be town together but I don't think they could be scum together.

as i said, world #1 looks more and more improbable

one of the reasons is that mario-perf interaction makes little sense

We interacted a ton on pg 32. Can you elaborate on what you find weird about him and I?
I wish you played with Mario before, Lapsa...
I remember one game where he replaced my slot (I forget why LOL), and he continued into endgame (that slot was town). I learned a lot about town Mario.

His explanation for his read on me, is somewhat off but I understand that could be simply his interpretation.
As scum, I lurk, avoid confrontation, am brief in my posts, vague in posts, and I'm indifferent to anything, even my win condition. I'm not sure how he derived me as "friendly" as scum. I can be sociable as town and I can be odd due to the playstyles I'll use in a game, but when I'm here, I do mean business. I don't want to waste mine or anyone else's time. I have a higher respect for high-performing players and will unashamedly coach others if I think they're town (based on the situation of course). I couldn't care less about friendliness or care about anything, if I'm scum.
You can also find out more by checking my profile Wiki webpage.

This is the Thor665 of me talking, but seriously - can we get more people on this Soap wagon or what? Put him at L-1, come on folks. We need some progress! I work M-F at my new job so I'm more or less V/LA on weekdays! Come on!

[Performer]

And before someone replies with something about being cautious of accidentally hammering, because they've forgotten the vote count - here it is:

Votecount Day 2 as of pg 35

MarioManiac4 (4) - KainTepes, Garmr, Boonskiies, Not_Mafia
Soapbar (2) - MarioManiac4, Performer
Katsuki (1) - droog
Performer (1) - Katsuki

Not Voting (3) - Soapbar, Ircher, Lapsa
Deadline 3-21-16
11 alive, takes 6 to lynch

[Performer]

Ircher, NM was doing that on pg 35-36 becuase he's scum. Or he's town trying to provoke reactions, much like how RC (and Boon maybe?) do things from time to time.

What game was that Perf? I went through my game history and couldn't find it.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=63200

Yep, this game is dead.

We might as well lynch Soap, not that it really matters....

I CAN VOTE EITHER MARIO OR SOAPBAR,, JUST LET ME KNOW WHAT I SHOUDL VOTE

Vote Soap. Once he gets to L-1, give him a chance to claim. If he doesn't or claims VT, someone hammer him. I am highly certain he's not town, and I'm not the only one seeing that.

If I somehow die tonight, be careful of Boon & Kat in the coming days. They're either scum or town together. I really didn't want to post something more about them, but their continued push on me is growing scummier rather than townier.

Has anyone seen Lapsa? Wth?

[Performer]

Few things.

Boon is town.

Performer is scum based on how he tried to preemptively paint my slot as scummy before anything happened, then pushed it as a reason for me being scum. Go back and read the first couple pages, and see how unnatural developed Performer's stance on me was. His progression of reads is not that of a townie, and I am absolutely certain that he is scum. You do not need to look past pg 6/7, his play alone is indicative of him being scum.

Hm so apparently no one wants to vote Performer.

Oh well time to sheep. Bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Vote: Mario

Wow. You and Boon, wow. If one of you dies and flips scum, I'm fairly certain the other is scum. If somehow one of you die and turn up town, then the other should be the same alignment too.
Boon & your continued push on me isn't just annoying, it's constantly causing me to second guess my townreading of Boon & you. Majorly disappointed you didn't replace out, Katsuki. And if you think some of my posts are scummy, well, maybe you're misreading that - I'm not 100% averse to reaction tests, which I've dishing out regarding you.

The fact that you think I'm scummy, want Boon to sheep you, and are sheeping the largest wagon, and failing to mention anything else...maybe next day I should vote park you or Boon. It's not like the evidence isn't already here, in terms of your activity - what you're posted, which is poor quality overall - as well as what you haven't posted (inactive with excuses about being "too busy").
-----

Saw the mod's recent message. Thank you.

[Performer]

Eager for this day to end.

[Performer]

pisskop! Hello!

Firebringer, haven't seen you in ages...! When was last time I saw you? In a large normal? I forget if it was the one with the 4-man scum team or the 2-man scum team , haha.

Ircher's posts on this page, I am agreeing with to some extent, especially about Firebringer/droog and Garmr.
I'm very sorry that you replaced into yet another scum slot, Firebringer.
Now that you're here - one of your predecessors claimed 1-shot Bulletproof. Why?

[Performer]

Garmr, you wanna be masons then?

Whoa. What in the.

[Performer]

Garmr, you wanna be masons then?

Whoa. What in the.

You and Garmr. Hmm. I'm fairly certain at least 1 of you is not town.

[Performer]

Lapsa I understand you didn't vote on d2. Need your help on this day phase, I'm very serious about this. Please.
I need you to help me as much as Ircher is helping me figure out the game.

Firebringer you are just too funny. VOTE: Firebringer

[Performer]

you both can't be this stupid.
Or maybe you can.

Well, 1 of you should be scum...

Firebringer I understand your scum is stronger than your town game?
You should read the ISOs at least...to see how things have happened . Scum have been sliding by in this game, more or less.

[Performer]

I asked if my ability was wasted if I did it on a person who died.
The ability was a neighborizer. I was using it on Mario so we can totally be masons.

I am not refunded it because N didn't answer my question

Wow. Scum team better try to kill me tonight because this is all sorts of awful. Leave me alive and they'll regret it.
Ircher, I understand you may still be new to FM but you do NOT just unvote within 1 irl day like that. A proper town player holds their ground against awful fake claims.
Think about it. Fire seemed frustrated at mod, claimed 1-shot Neighborizer immediately on d3 despite not being pressured, and somehow targeted the person who died. Fire I recall playing in games with you when you were every alignment. You mentioned at least twice that you are good as town. This is not at all making me think that about you. In other words, his actions were all rather convenient - as if he completely fabricated all this.
-----

Well, @Fire, I'm not letting this game die.

Pedit - You claim 1-Shot Neighborizer? Normal guidelines is shot isn't refunded. I can believe that claim --
VOTE: Garmr

Well, I can't say I'm against your vote on Garm either . : ) I've already setup my notes regarding Fire & Garm.

[Performer]

@NM whatever. Help us solve this game. KT & your avatars have been growing in annoyance
-----

Let's see:

Lapsa - Investigative
Soap - Mafia Even Night Gunsmith
Fire - 1-Shot Neighborizer
Fa_QU2 - 1-Shot Vig

Town still seems weak considering Mafia had a gunsmith.

Ircher thank you for keeping tabs on this. Apparently Lapsa investigated Soap on n1 and got a guilty. Wondering who on earth he investigated on n2.

Hmm. Going to add more to my notes. There's something very wrong going on.

[Performer]

Come to think of it. If he really was investigative, why isn't he already dead?????

[Performer]

Just read the dead thread. All that bravado about being obvious townie and it should be obvious is something I do when I actually feel like living is more a Appeal to Emotion. I find people are less likely to lynch me when I do this and guess what it works.

@performer
before you say I am the worst townie you ever meet performer I'm probably the most hit or miss townie you ever meet when I hit I hit really hard and when I miss it ends up like this. There have been games where I nailed the entire scum team day 1 or 2 and then there have been games where I flopped like this one. Also you actually didn't do any better this game your scum read were on me and fire bringer at the end.

Well..ok. This sounds quite true based on this game and the game I played with you and Lapsa in, where Mario moderated.

Honestly, they whined then blamed others instead of controlling the game themselves XD

Didn't make good use of their night actions. Performer cop N1 was pretty sub-optimal.

The setup was pretty awesome though, soapbar kinda panicked and misplayed but oh well KAIN TEPES SAVED THE DAY!!!!!!!!!!!

Katsuki has a great point here - I learned a lot about PR usage . In terms of "they whined and blamed others," that's not exactly true. There is productive criticism in dead thread...at least for town play, from what I recall. : )

[Performer]

I am very glad that I replaced out of this game.

I hope you at least learned something from reading this game after you replaced out.

Tbh I just lynched ircher because hew as annoying as well. @rc if you stayed in the game I would of played better i missed you.

I can't even begin with the 2 issues with this post from Garmr...

Imho, I kinda think it was the first mod's fault as to why this game deteriorated to the state it did. If Chaos had done a better job of keeping with the game, the players would feel more inclined to play.

So, no, I don't neccessarily blame you Katsuki, esp. considering you were scum. But, this game imo was hardly a game.

Honestly I don't feel blaming the mod is entirely fair. Town were just so all over the place this game that they were bound to fall apart sooner than later. It really hurts that there were no strong town players as well so this game had a severe lack of town leadership.

This I heavily disagree with in terms of no strong town players. What points do you believe constitute strong town?

[Performer]

You and Massive.... I will powerlynch/policy lynch you two.... Well, maybe I'll give you another chance.

I'm of the same mindset regarding Kat and massive.
Nothing personal.

Town dictate the effort scum needs to put in to evade being caught, if town fails to make scum put any effort in and scum know how to ride that, then town has not done their job properly and scum deserve to win.

I agree with this as well. Hence why effort with substance, is a good town sign.

[Performer]

and I didn't even get close to getting suspected

i did suspect you. especially after perf died. too much PR wannabes

Mario & I suspected KT & you on d1. Unfortunately I had no experience playing with or against either of you . I also learned that no matter what role I would be as town going forward, that I should have more faith in my scumreads on d1.

[Performer]

^ebwop that was toward Katsuki

[Performer]

This I heavily disagree with in terms of no strong town players. What points do you believe constitute strong town players?

Those who are able to dominate games as town.

Hmm...I meant more in terms of actions....but ok.

[Performer]

@Fire: I forget why exactly I scumread you but between the time that I last posted when alive, into the time that disappointing wagon grew on me - I was going to move my vote to Kat, Garm, or Lapsa.

I think I scumread you when you replaced in because of how you posted when you replaced in .