Mini 1784: Mafia Z – Game Over

[yessiree bob]

VOTE: chilldtea

that's a wagon, yessireebob

[yessiree bob]

VOTE: UT

[yessiree bob]

didn't like the day 1 vote by UT tbh

it was trying to kill the momentum of the chilledtea wagon, as well as taunting pip to pressure him not to hammer

[yessiree bob]

Fate is a man with a narrative.

[yessiree bob]

That's Flubber and he townslipped (may be pretend, but unlikely) unless he's really uninvolved.

wait not flubber but Xsadfgdsz or something

the townslip comment is still true

[yessiree bob]

eh, it's not solid but

[yessiree bob]

if the DV hydra is scum and X isn't trying too hard, X either mistook his teammate for the person who lolhammered his teammate or he his mistook his teammate for the person who was lolhammered by his teammate.

[yessiree bob]

didn't like the day 1 vote by UT tbh

it was trying to kill the momentum of the chilledtea wagon, as well as taunting pip to pressure him not to hammer

ehhh not really? itlpip's fake vote looked increidbly awkward and scummy, so I voted him

turns out I was right, so I'm not going to apologize for it. the CT wagon was an RVS powerwagon that had the good fortune of being on scum.

my vote looks SUPERFICIALLY like an attempt to start a counterwagon but the content of my post should have let you know that I thought it was exclusively RVS nonsense and I was voting for an actual read I'd gotten.

likewise, I think your vote had the good fortune of landing on a werewolf when no one expected multiball

UT isn't werewolf thats a bullshit read

THIS IS A WEREWOLF SLIP

BECAUSE NO ONE WAS PUSHING UT WEREWOLF LMFAO

[yessiree bob]

likewise, I think your vote had the good fortune of landing on a werewolf when no one expected multiball

expand on this, because I'm not really seeing what you're trying to say

im saying the fact that you voted scum (werewolf) doesn't change the fact that you could be mafia with chilledtea

[yessiree bob]

sircakez:

Your wagon?

two votes isn't a wagon, but I'm not surprised given that itl flipped as scum and my vote superficially looks like me trying to start a counterwagon (ended up being on scum though, so HA)

You were starting a wagon in response to a wagon. How is that "superficially" a counterwagon?

This post also looks like distancing

the key difference is that I wasn't voting to stop an RVS wagon but rather to express an actual scumread on one player who I was actually scumreading.

distancing from...what exactly?

Distancing from itlepip

READ PLS

I don't understand how you can vote for UT and still push this

But yes I got the itlepip and chilledtea slots backwards

If the DV hydra is scum and X isn't trying too hard, Flub mistook his teammate for the person who either was hammered by or hammered his teammate.

also disregard yessiree's post for now, we haven't had the chance to sync up and drill shitty stances out of one another's heads

[yessiree bob]

didn't like the day 1 vote by UT tbh

it was trying to kill the momentum of the chilledtea wagon, as well as taunting pip to pressure him not to hammer

ehhh not really? itlpip's fake vote looked increidbly awkward and scummy, so I voted him

turns out I was right, so I'm not going to apologize for it. the CT wagon was an RVS powerwagon that had the good fortune of being on scum.

my vote looks SUPERFICIALLY like an attempt to start a counterwagon but the content of my post should have let you know that I thought it was exclusively RVS nonsense and I was voting for an actual read I'd gotten.

this is just a "I'm assuming scum intent X because of the way post Y was phrased" vs "you shouldn't assume scum intent X because there's also a possible town motivation" argument that has no chance of going anywhere

[yessiree bob]

Your quote pyramid is going nowhere because you're telling yessiree to change a low-level gut read because of an interpretation he's already considered and disagrees with. You're stating the superficially obvious town interpretation of your post and you're using that as an argument to challenge his gut read. It's not going to work.

fixed

[yessiree bob]

that's sort of coherent if you ignore the repetition in the second line

[yessiree bob]

Your quote pyramid is going nowhere because you're telling yessiree to change a low-level gut read because of an interpretation he's already considered and disagrees with. You're stating the superficially obvious town interpretation of your post and use that as an argument to challenge his gut read. It's not going to work.

Ah.

Well I guess my issue is that he seems to be considering my vote as a reaction to the chill wagon when it was not since I thought it was just an RVS flash wagon and I was moving based on an actual read I had that was based on a vote.

This is like Mafia 101, I'm not sure what's difficult about this for him.

you're still doing it

I could see scum messing this up too, wouldn't call this a townslip tbh

yeah it isn't solid, but good enough for now

[yessiree bob]

UNVOTE:

[yessiree bob]

Copped Fate last night, got "no results". I feel there's a pretty good chance he's a mafia godfather.

that's not how it works

there's no way you believe that's how it works

How accurate would you say your results are?

since this isn't a bastard game I would assume I'm guaranteed to be sane....

that's not how it works

!

[yessiree bob]

wait shit you're right, I was confusing that with ascetic

unvote

there is no way someone of your caliber can make low level mistakes like confusing the interpretation of "not mafia" and "no result"

it also doesn't make sense for there to be an ascetic mafia and not godfather when there is a cop that specifically cops for mafia

here's out tinfoil theory, there was only 1 night kill last night, most likely because the werewolf was roleblocked

UT knew he was roleblocked, so he lied about being a cop and getting "no result" to dismantle his wagon


so can we go back and vote scum thanks
VOTE: UT

[yessiree bob]

Or maybe maf and werewolves don't kill the same night?

Think how fucking imba 10p multiball would be normally.

this is a game where most likely vts dont make up the majority

the double kills per night can be compensated by multiple kill-prevention roles

[yessiree bob]

that really doesn't hold up to scrutiny

if I'm "of that caliber" then you would think that my fakeclaim would not have a mistake in it, no?

everyone makes mistakes dude. sorry to be the one to have to tell you that.

it's a tinfoil theory dude, and this isn't just a "haha my b" mistake dude, how can you not understand what your role does dude

[yessiree bob]

k

UNVOTE:

[yessiree bob]

kinda confused why you're mocking my usage of the word "dude" but I'll just let that go instead of arguing about it

i wasn't mocking it, you're reading too much

[yessiree bob]

No you don't get to call one confusion a town slip and another confusion a scum slip

you're grouping the two as if they are the same thing; they are not

there's a drastic difference between mistaking a player with another, and misinterpreting the implications of a negative result and a no result.

[yessiree bob]

No you don't get to call one confusion a town slip and another confusion a scum slip

you're grouping the two as if they are the same thing; they are not

there's a drastic difference between mistaking a player with another, and misinterpreting the implications of a negative result and a no result.

You're going to have to spell it out because I'm not seeing it

I was about to give you an ELI5 but then I remembered why are you asking us to spell it out in the first place?

[yessiree bob]

No you don't get to call one confusion a town slip and another confusion a scum slip

you're grouping the two as if they are the same thing; they are not

there's a drastic difference between mistaking a player with another, and misinterpreting the implications of a negative result and a no result.

You're going to have to spell it out because I'm not seeing it

you're more likely to mix up two enemies than an enemy and a teammate

to me, UT's mistake feels kinda like it's the result of tailoring the claim to explain his behaviour (although I'm not sure that's yessiree's reasoning as well)

[yessiree bob]

VOTE: killthestory

[yessiree bob]

yeah I could go with this

VOTE: sircakez L-1

[yessiree bob]

especially considering how much there's to say about you two

are you a mafia roleblocker?

[yessiree bob]

s c u m c o u n t e r w a g o n
It was impossible to build a KTS wagon but this comes together in an hour and a half? No way.

ok so you think kts is scum and he got help from his teammates who are alive and well to counter

what alignment distribution are you thinking of? 5v3v2?

[yessiree bob]

have you seen one man mafia/werewolf/etc?

has anyone seen one man mafia/werewolf/etc?

[yessiree bob]

zakk did anyone review this game if so who and in what mental state

[yessiree bob]

dont make us try

we were so chill

[yessiree bob]

Flub wants you to explain why you don't believe the fact that cakez was speedwagoned somehow makes him more likely to be town.

[yessiree bob]

@yessiree, can you explain your thought development from voting KTS to voting SirCakez? I'm interested because they're scumreading each other currently.

we've been scumreading cakes for quite some time

we didn't pursue or mention it because we wanted to finish our UT push first

I think the discussion on cakes started with yessiree saying that if UT really was blocked, the RB was probably on his wagon since they'd believe they blocked the kill, and that sircakez was most likely to be this RB

I mostly agreed, but added that it is quite likely that the roleblocker is a town jk/rb since town hardly has a majority (we'd discussed numbers just before that)

we also agreed that cakes was shifty in general

as for the kts vote, I'm pretty sure yessiree just felt like voting someone, he doesn't care that much for following MS's voting etiquette

[yessiree bob]

I think the discussion on cakes started with yessiree saying that if UT really was blocked, the RB was probably on his wagon since they'd believe they blocked the kill

btw I later realised that this is only true if the kill that was stopped wasn't the roleblocker's, but I don't think I mentioned that

[yessiree bob]

So your scumread on me is based on you thinking the possible rber was on the chilledtea wagon and that I'm shifty in general? You have to unpack that more.

You'll have to take gut for an answer for now. I mentioned the rb thing mostly because it was part of the process zef was asking about.

zef side is six years old

[yessiree bob]

So your scumread on me is based on you thinking the possible rber was on the chilledtea wagon and that I'm shifty in general? You have to unpack that more.

just dropping by to say that we pretty much agreed on scumreading you the instant it was brought up, it was like telepathy

the general sentiment is that, during the first 10 pages, your shiftiness pinged us, you were trying to look busy without actually doing anything, just remaining on the edge of the conversations without taking hard stances

too lazy to quote and shit but if you read cakez' ISO you will know what we're talking about

also v/la until 25th

-y

[yessiree bob]

I'm pretty sure zef can be figured out by skimming one of his town games and one of his scum games

who feels like doing some meta-shallow-diving?

[yessiree bob]

also kts what happened to "no way this sc's town game"?

[yessiree bob]

No one hammers until we got this sorted out.

I tracked SC. He's obvious town anyway you dumb fucks.

Stop voting me for fucking disagreeing with you.

He's obvious not mafia for his early vote. His reply makes him obv town.

You mean his d1 vote? Why the hell would you track someone who you think is not mafia?

[yessiree bob]

Have trouble believing there's a tracker, a seer, and a cop.

In 6v2v2?

[yessiree bob]

If scum have a roleblocker, I'd expect more than a tracker and 2 cops

[yessiree bob]

We decide on the hammer.

How's this for a setup

Mafia kills odd nights
Werewolves kill even

2 mafia goon
1 werewolf goon
1 werewolf odd-night tracker

3 VT
Jailkeeper
Seer
Cop

Your setup is certainly possible, but there are other options.

I mean, yeah.

Werewolves having tracker makes sense since they probably kill N2, hence me outing.

Are you claiming seer? If so, why didn't you out your result?

That's utter shit.

I tracked SC and SC is town.

I didn't track RC. Nor did I claim to.

Meanwhile RC has fabricated 3 fucking roles and gets unvoted but I actually question reads and I am the bad guy.

Intelligence is dead. I hate mafia.

Answer my question.

[yessiree bob]

hope you get your thumb relocated

Oh I missed it Bee.

Tracker is about clearing people N1. We had zero way of knowing who was going to be a killer so I went for clearing my townreads.

Tracker is about tracking people to the kill

This doesn't make any sense

Can you point me to a town game where you made similar assertions or where you clearly tracked your townreads?

[yessiree bob]

we are all aware of that DV made some weird posts that can be interpreted the way you interpret it

I'll hammer if titus can't prove she usually plays tracker like a weak cop unless yessiree brings something new in the mix

in any case, we want to have a chance to evaluate titus' reply

[yessiree bob]

flub, how did you feel about tracking a town read?

[yessiree bob]

how about you stop assuming things about us

im not moving on a wagon Fate is on

[yessiree bob]

unless someone has a guilty (note that there's probably only one goon left), everyone should claim (hypothetical) targets

then we no lynch, I think

we shouldn't discuss anything else (including reads) before we've decided on this

[yessiree bob]

Why would we nolynch? There's probably only one scum left.

even numbers
scum can't no-kill
remaining PR(s) shouldn't have to out today because their innos are wagoned
if we mislynch today, we'll have to nl tomorrow
if we nl tomorrow, scum can pick a better kill than today
if we were to lynch correctly today, we'll probably also lynch correctly tomorrow with additional information
we won't lose any information if we hypo (targeting PRs claim their targets, others makes up something believable)
hypo'ing past targets has little downsides if I'm right about the last mafioso being a goon and people don't fuck up
hypo'ing n3 targets is probably also a good idea

[yessiree bob]

zakk, can we get a full description of UT's role?

[yessiree bob]

in that case we might lose information even when hypo'ing

I'll wait to see what yessiree has to say

[yessiree bob]

I haven't touched base with bob yet, but support a massclaim

I mean yesiree bob is just scum、you're right

you dont sound very certain with this read

pedit: Fate is scum

[yessiree bob]

I'm actually willing to bet some skins on fate-scum right now

[yessiree bob]

I mean, fate had us in the scumpile yesterday, but that was aight

but today? after 2 ww flipped? we're mafia with chilledtea?

no fucking way

[yessiree bob]

SHIT

this is bastard

[yessiree bob]

when did UT claim they were bright-lighted?

also, can't it be read as angel flavour?

[yessiree bob]

I'm not going to die for nothing.

you might have lived to see tomorrow if you didn't address your claim anymore

[yessiree bob]

alien jailkeeper

why do you think the alien and the jailkeeper are the same person?

you're not going to do a DV, are you?

[yessiree bob]

actually don't answer that, just beware that UT never said anything about a bright light

strategy:

-PRs who have a non-descriptive role name that isn't anticipated claim their full role and targets
-PRs who a self-explanatory role name (i.e. a fancy version of jailkeeper) claim their past targets and their n3 target
-other folks make up some believable past/n3 targets
-no lynch

This allows jailkeepers and similar roles to hide in the crowd while still producing two clears if they're killed tonight.

[yessiree bob]

"we won't lose any information if we hypo (targeting PRs claim their targets, others makes up something believable)"

See my previous post for the reasoning

[yessiree bob]

when did UT claim they were bright-lighted?

also, can't it be read as angel flavour?

Read UT's death post again. The mod confirmed that UT saw a bright light a la RC's story.

You supported a mass claim and yet when Fate suggested you claim first, you immediately jumped on him. I find that suspect.

uhh fate suggesting us claim first and the scumread on fate has nothing to do with each other

find my reason in thread and correct yourself in the next post thanks

[yessiree bob]

uhh yeah, we're the 3rd vote on that wagon

we could have voted elsewhere to prevent the wagon from building up any further, but we didn't

what kind of retarded scum play is that


IF BY NEXT POST YOU DONT CHANGE THIS SHIT READ YOU'RE CLAIMING SCUM

[yessiree bob]

actually, you're scum

why am i wasting my breath

[yessiree bob]

That's yessiree. "scum RVS buddies all the time" Yeah, but neither of us are terrible at mafia. Scum usually don't respond well to RVS wagons, especially if their buddies are on them. It's just dumb. The fact that you're not going to buy this argument and cry WIFOM proves it's the worst thing you can do as scum.

And even if it was a bad defence, why would that matter?

when did UT claim they were bright-lighted?

also, can't it be read as angel flavour?

Read UT's death post again. The mod confirmed that UT saw a bright light a la RC's story.

alien jailkeeper

why do you think the alien and the jailkeeper are the same person?

you're not going to do a DV, are you?

UT saw a bright light and claimed roleblocked on D2. RC saw a bright light and claimed roleblocked today. Like dude are you even trying to solve this game? My gut and brain says you're scum.

I hadn't read that death scene before. Now I'm sad. What's more likely?

-UT is blocked and gets a message saying he saw a bright light. When run up, UT claims his role and the fact that he was blocked, but leaves out the ominous bright light. When UT is killed, zakk decides that the town could have a little help and decides to include a hint to a past result in the death scene, which is something that never ever happens on MS. RC gets targeted by an alien jailkeeper.
-UT is blocked, but doesn't get a message he saw a bright light. UT claims everything he knows. When UT is killed, zakk includes a reference to a very common near-death experience. RC reads this death scene and thinks "hey, I, the Master Manipulator, could base a fakeclaim on this to divert the attention from me, the last mafia"

VOTE: RC

[yessiree bob]

do you believe zakk included information about an alien jailkeeper's n1 target in a n2 death scene? do you?

[yessiree bob]

answer me i need to go to sleep

also we're on pseudo-L-1 since RC will probably hammer us if he gets the chance

[yessiree bob]

No, but that's irrelevant to RCs alignment

So do you believe RC is fakeclaiming? Do you believe in the existence of an alien jailkeeper? Or do you think a townie vanillaized RC?

[yessiree bob]

B-B-B-B-B-B-B-BAITED

LETS FUCKING GO

BOB WTF ARE YOU VOTING RC FOR

VOTE: Fate

[yessiree bob]

HAHAHAHAHAH FATE YOU PICKED THE WRONG GUY TO MISLYNCH

YOU DUG YOUR OWN GRAVE

[yessiree bob]

no

whats worse is him using it as some sort of defense

but then not ALSO using it to scumhunt.

He's using it merely as his SCUMLORD SHIELD LOOK AT ME I DID SOMETHING

and not trying to figure out the GAME with it.

Instead we get this half'assed "OH YOU DONT THINK IM TOWN CUZMY PRETTY SHIELD? UR CLAIMIN SCUM LOLZ"

I'm completely ok with UT being the only marr to our perfect sweep (<3 u UT)

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME

WHAT THE FUCK HAVE YOU BEEN DOING THIS GAME?

let me tell you

throwing scumreads around like theyr candy

remind me who fate called scum this game

then remind me who are still alive

YOU FUCKING DUG YOUR OWN GRAVE AND YOU FUCKING KNOW IT BRO

[yessiree bob]

Yeah I'm want to get rid of yessirree, just don't want inevitable quick hammer from RC.

stop fucking posturing and fucking put your vote where your mouth is son

[yessiree bob]

it's an all you can lynch buffet over here and all you fools are on the menu

Fate called everyone scum except RC

why would he do that?

think for yourself

[yessiree bob]

I'm 100% sure Fate is the last scum

if there are still more than 1 scum left then

[yessiree bob]

remember

when Fate dies, town wins

if not then

[yessiree bob]

there is only one scum left and that's you Fate

it's just a matter of time before you die

you're still talking like we're scared of dying and clinging to life?

dont make me laugh

I told Bob I was so fucking glad we rolled VT this game

you know why?

because the perk that comes with being a VT

IS THAT YOU CAN PLAY LIKE A FEARLESS HARDASS MOTHERFUCKER

so when scum like you tries to mislynch us you're signing your own death warrant

[yessiree bob]

"have you even claimed yet?"

i claim when i see fit so dont fucking stick your nose where it doesn't belong

[yessiree bob]

I wasn't going to mention this until after the NL I hoped would happen, but I briefly looked through zefiend's ISO in a town game of his. He seemed significantly more analytical there.

Other reads: kts is probably town*, fate is likely town*, RC is pretty town if the thievery is explained, likely scum if not.

As you can probably tell, yessiree and I haven't been able to sync up since the start of this Day.

* I am aware of how these type of reads are generally perceived on MS and I would have picked different ones if I were scum.