Mini 1783: GTA 2 Mafia (GaME OVAH)

[Dragon Knight]

#banned

[Code of Honor]

Dragon I can agree with you. Ranger's counting skills are REALLY triggering my OCD sensors ensuring he is mafia

What does this even mean? Where is she counting, and why does that ensure that she's scum?

Scum team is banta and polar/ranger

But you just said that you were sure that Ranger is scum.

VOTE: TheDominator37

-Xk

Sarcasm...

Really? I'm usually pretty good at picking up on sarcasm, but I completely missed that one. I guess it does make more sense as sarcasm though, instead of a serious statement.

However, if your first statement was sarcastic, then why the scum read on Ranger in the second statement?

[Code of Honor]

Dragon I can agree with you. Ranger's counting skills are REALLY triggering my OCD sensors ensuring he is mafia

What does this even mean? Where is she counting, and why does that ensure that she's scum?

Scum team is banta and polar/ranger

But you just said that you were sure that Ranger is scum.

VOTE: TheDominator37

-Xk

Sarcasm...

Really? I'm usually pretty good at picking up on sarcasm, but I completely missed that one. I guess it does make more sense as sarcasm though, instead of a serious statement.

However, if your first statement was sarcastic, then why the scum read on Ranger in the second statement?

-Xk

[Code of Honor]

OK, I'm caught up.

Jeanne watches DK and that way we get at least one cop result. No point lynching either of them Today.

This should be today's lynch though;

VOTE: FA

I like this plan, and I'm fine with the FAQ lynch. His ISO shows him voting BBT for the last week, while attempting to cast suspicion on almost everyone he interacts with, instead of actually pushing for BBT's lynch.

-Xk

I have pushed him and BBT has completely ignored anything I have said. Town is just letting him lurk his ass right out of it. Why should I bother then?

Ok, then it seems you have two choices. Either push harder for the lynch you prefer (presumably BBT), in an attempt to convince others, or move on to someone else. The way you are casually throwing shade on different people, but not hard pushing anyone, makes it look like you're just trying to throw shit around to see what sticks, and hoping someone else will pick up on something you've said and run with it.

I've only played in one game with you (briefly in Netherspite's Role Madness game, after I replaced in), but you were town in that game, and I don't remember you doing anything like this in that game.

-Xk

[Code of Honor]

And no, you don't fucking get a choice in who you investigate. I propose we also take a vote on that one.

Bearbert

No, no and fuck no.

This is asinine in the extreme. By telling scum who a cop is targeting you give them information that they need to decide in order to plan their actions.

We have 2 options, if you think DK is scum then you lynch it. If you think DK is town then they direct their power where they see fit. Chaining a PR is simply giving scum all the power over it.

No. As long as both DK and Ranger are both town, the plan works and is a great idea. Ranger watches DK, and DK investigates Dominator. Worst case scenario is that we get just one result.

-Xk

[Ircher]

Who the heck is Ircher.

My alt

Liar

[Ircher]

Anyone want to give me the cliffnotes? Ill catch up in full later.

[Polar Vortex]

Anyone want to give me the cliffnotes? Ill catch up in full later.

DK claimed cop, Jeanne(replaced by Ranger) claimed Watcher. We should lynch Dominator

Bear

[Ircher]

UNVOTE:

[Masquerade]

Lets lynch scum.

VOTE: Code of Honor

And we're not telling DK who t investigate because it will only tell scum what to do about it. Obviously Ranger should watch DK so scum can't kill him (that's assuming Ranger and DK are both town)

[BlackStar]

VOTE: fa_q2
I should've voted for you a while ago

[Polar Vortex]

Lets lynch scum.

VOTE: Code of Honor

And we're not telling DK who t investigate because it will only tell scum what to do about it. Obviously Ranger should watch DK so scum can't kill him (that's assuming Ranger and DK are both town)

If we play it right, they have absolutely nothing to do about it. That's what I said pretty much

Bear

[Masquerade]

Ok.

Well I still think CoH is scum, my vote wasn;t because of that alone.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don’t necessarily like that FA is so focused on BBT to the extent that it blocks out his interplay with the rest of the thread but 560 is Town. Maybe not the right choice but completely from a Town perspective given scum in a Role Madness game are going to be loaded for bear as it were.

Ok.

Well I still think CoH is scum, my vote wasn;t because of that alone.

Explain then please. Because CoH is one of my stronger Town reads this game and I’d like to know why you are scum reading them.

Who's your bigger scum read, Magna, BlackStar or Ranger?

Blackstar. Which is why my vote is where it is still. I fully admit I have a weakness for over-reading scum in players who make clearly ill-founded cases on me. Which is why I’m putting the time in my back and forth with Ranger. Because I see her reasoning as very generic and based solely on a clearly faulty meta stance.

I’ve already made my Blackstar read pretty clear. I know others have disagreed but his continued posting that amounts to “I really don’t have scum reads” coupled with “I suck at finding scum” hasn’t reduced my perception that he’s scum.

Magna, if you agree with me that watcher is a weak role than why did you ask us about why we'd be happy if Jeanne was NK-ed?

Bearbert

Well we were talking at cross-purposes then. My understanding was that you would be happy if Jean (the player) was shot first independent of her role. Which is why I included reference to Cobalt and Dom in my response – I thought you were asking if as a lurker bringing nothing to the game scum-hunting wise I would be happy if she died first.

If your premise was that you’d rather see a claimed Watcher flip first over other potential and claimed Town Power-roles then I can see your point. I think there are going to be some fluff roles in the set-up (Fruit Vendor level) that I would rather see dead than a Town Watcher but that’s just speculation on my part.

Why is it unsurprising?

As I explained to Code above – my gut reaction to the terrible “case” (if you want to call it that) Ranger threw at me was “scum”. I disagree with your premise that this stance isn’t Scum looking to diffuse the wagon on them. A Town player in Ranger’s shoes should have some suspicion of the players whose case on Ranger’s slot is “Meta from prior player and lurking”. There was enough noise made in that direction that several other players stepped in to say “No, not lynching that”. But Ranger blithely just chalks that whole crew up to “Unimpeachable Town” which to me makes no sense from a Town standpoint. Especially on the basis she has provided as support.

Assuming she's town, which of those players would you suspect?

Either Banterlords or Dom. At this point Banterlords if you held a gun to my head. Both were quick to jump on the meta bandwagon but Banterlord’s jump off with the excuse of “I refuse to consider Ranger scum until Day 3” sticks out as bad after the verve with which Banter espoused the lynch in 338.

Dragon on the other hand has the most to lose from so stridently pushing basically solely on the meta basis if Ranger were to flip Town.

Yeah, I really don't get the "Scum looking to survive" vibe from her. I mean, it's not like she claimed cop at L-1

See this comment confuses me. Do you think it was scummy for a player to claim Cop at L-1? Independent of what I think of Dragon’s play that lead to the wagon I don’t see anything inherently more scummy about claiming at L-1 as opposed to Jean claiming Watcher effectively “just because”. Of the two Jean’s claim looks objectively worse when viewed form a distance.

MoI, talk to me. I thought you'd see this, but apparently you don't. How is ranger's lynch acceptable but DK's isn't, taking not just their claims, but their play in consideration?

-Snow (previous one was mine too)

Ok I thought I had been talking to you this entire time.

I think I’ve explained this in my response to Ranger but I’ll reiterate – both players I’ve read as scummy. Dragon for his early player which earned my vote and Ranger for the replace in reads which to me don’t logically come from a Town standpoint. As I said earlier – I’m not lynching an UnCCed Cop Day 1 no matter how bad their player is. Dragon’s claim will be tested via Night and re-assessed. On the other hand I don’t believe a Watcher is nearly at the level of Cop as far as leash Day 1 goes.

Is Ranger my preferred lynch? No, not at this stage. But it is a lynch I would consider dependent on how my read on the slot develops.

[MagnaofIllusion]

A particular playstyle tell, yes, absent from those same player's town games yet present in their scum games.

Given that you’ve never played a single game with me (unless you are some Alt) and you haven’t even brought up meta evidence that relates to me you can understand why I doubt your magical tell, can’t you?

And this is why you are scum. Watcher is near-universally considered one of the strongest town roles in existence. It is both investigative and protective, because its existence limits scum's actions in a manner similar to how a doctor would. You're experienced enough and well-versed enough in mafia theory to know this.

Do you actually believe this? I see you have tagged random threads but if you are honestly suggesting that Watchers are deemed stronger than Cops or Doctors I question your sincerity on the issue. Because Polar Vortex is this very thread has espoused that they don’t see Watcher the strongest role. And perhaps there’s been noise in GD in the years I have been missing but the entire existence of Trackers and Watchers can be credited to the fact that Cop roles were considered too strong and weaker Town information roles were needed.

Watcher is useless to the scum. What are they going to catch? Their own nightkill? A doctor if their nightkill fails? A bodyguard? A roleblocker on them if they watch one of their own? A serial killer if they watch one of their own? There are better roles for that, e.g. Tracker, Rolecop, Rolecop variants (Neapolitan, Vanilla Cop).

I see this and don’t buy for a second you think this. Catching a Doctor protecting a popular Town player is huge for a Mafia team. Catching a Vig (I notice you specifically ignored mentioning them in your response which I find interesting) for the same way. And these are just two options off the top of my head. There are many other uses for scum as well Of course they are not going to catch their own Nightkill. That’s absurd and the fact that you attempt to use it as a solid point in your favor says to me you aren’t honestly stating what you believe but what you think frames your position best. Which is scum-play.

You also fail to factor in that if Watchers are so strong as far as Town roles go that they make wonderful scum roles for “Outguess the Mod” WIFOM.

Also – back to a point we’ve discussed before – do you not like having a role you claim is universally viewed as the Strongest Town information role? If the role is so powerful in this game as you suggest in 554 I’m curious why again about your initial statement. You’ve clearly got an ego and I would assume Town Ranger would love to be in charge of such a powerful tool that you claim Watcher is.

There was no votecount. There wasn't even an unofficial votecount as far as I can tell. People noted there was a wagon, but I don't remember seeing any player tally them to a wagon. And if I don't see a votecount of all the players on...then I don't know what the wagon was like. That simple. I know there was a wagon. I know the players I townread, and held no issue with what they were doing. If that really was all there was to the Jeanne wagon, then yes, I have no issue with it. But I don't know because it wasn't something tangible. It popped up and disappeared before anybody bothered to note who was there. As-is, I'm taking your word for it, that it was all townreads of mine on there. I'd have to go back and check myself to confirm. Because I don't know. Thanks to it, you know. Not having been tallied.

Um, whut? There was no pressure to lynch Jean? Are you saying that you read the whole thread, back to front, without noticing players calling your slot scum for meta reasons and calling the manner your slot claimed as scummy? Simply because there wasn’t a vote count? This strains the bounds of credibility for me to believe you saw all three of those players vote for you and just “didn’t notice it” because he has a Town read on them.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: fa_q2
I should've voted for you a while ago

So is this yet another Null read you are looking to get something out of? If not why should you have made this vote "a while ago"?

[Polar Vortex]

Ok.

Well I still think CoH is scum, my vote wasn;t because of that alone.

Why? I don't see that in CoH so you'll have to explain if you want a lynch that way. If you don't, it's just a throwaway vote that means nothing


Magna, what do you think about BBT? I'm becoming increasingly suspicious of his absence and would totally change my vote there. Also, I believe we aren't lynching Blackstar today so you could change your vote as deadline is approaching
-----Bearbert D------
^signed in a more obvious way so Magna doesn't think I'm Snow -.-


^signin

[BlackStar]

VOTE: fa_q2
I should've voted for you a while ago

So is this yet another Null read you are looking to get something out of? If not why should you have made this vote "a while ago"?

Dial down the snark. Anyways, he's parked his vote for an entire week, he barely posts and all his votes just give off the feeling that he's trying to hard to look like town

[Masquerade]

@Magna: About 560, I could easily make something like that as scum. It's null to me because I don't know Faq well enough to judge if he could do it is either alignment.

About my scumread on CoH: I'm not getting the feeling they are trying to figure this game out. I feel a lot in their iso is more about setup than scumhunting, there's very little opinion on other players. I don't know where they stand other than not wanting to lynch the claimed PR's (and not having a scumread on jeanne/Ranger but slightly scumreading DK) and now voting Dom which just seems like an easy target to push.

I read the rest of your walls as well and didn't see anything I want to comment on rn. I'm null on both you and Ranger and I hope the coming night will sort some stuff out for me. I'm still doubting whether you are tvt or svt. If svt, I'm currently leaning more toward Ranger being scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, what do you think about BBT? I'm becoming increasingly suspicious of his absence and would totally change my vote there. Also, I believe we aren't lynching Blackstar today so you could change your vote as deadline is approaching
-----Bearbert D------
^signed in a more obvious way so Magna doesn't think I'm Snow -.-

BBT – I think this looks exactly like what I expect from BBT Day 1 of a game. Now this is a very, very limited set of experience with him but nothing he’s posted as made me think “hmmm, that’s scum”. Does he have a meta for lurking as scum I should be informed about? Has he made posts you find suspect?

Who do you think I should move my vote to? Dom? My confusion on that stems from the fact that both yourself and CoM seem to be advocating a “Ranger watch Dragon, Dragon scan Dom” plan which doesn’t make much sense if you just want to lynch Dom instead. Is that who you think is the best lynch of the day? Or do you have an alternate plan for how Dragon and Ranger operate?

Dial down the snark. Anyways, he's parked his vote for an entire week, he barely posts and all his votes just give off the feeling that he's trying to hard to look like town

So has half the game (re: parking of votes for long periods). And I don’t understand how you are saying “His votes look like he’s trying to hard” given FA has made a whopping total of two votes – one on Code in RVS and one on BBT that he has latched onto with lockjaw. Why does parking a vote make him look like he’s trying to hard to be Town if your initial premise for FA = scum is based on parking his vote?

As for snark – if you really are offended I apologize but I’m definitely not trying to be snarky. This is bland for me.

About my scumread on CoH: I'm not getting the feeling they are trying to figure this game out. I feel a lot in their iso is more about setup than scumhunting, there's very little opinion on other players. I don't know where they stand other than not wanting to lynch the claimed PR's (and not having a scumread on jeanne/Ranger but slightly scumreading DK) and now voting Dom which just seems like an easy target to push.

Thanks. I have a pretty good CoH town read but will take this under advisement. What do you think of Blackstar? Polar is right to point out that deadline is approaching and we need to start consolidating wagons.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We should lynch FA.

[MagnaofIllusion]

We should lynch FA.

Reasons. Provide them please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

He's scum.

What more do you need? Just look at his push on me and tell me how that comes from a town perspective.

[Polar Vortex]

He's scum.

What more do you need? Just look at his push on me and tell me how that comes from a town perspective.

Why are you town? Have you done anything that would make people read you as scum? If not, why is FA_Q's push bad?


Bearbert

[shos]

YES! YEAHHHH!!!!