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BROseidon · Post Post #3575 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:51 pm

In post 3572, Sudo_Nym wrote:I'm pretty happy to see Knife Juggler and Leper Gnome get nerfed, since aggro has been too strong for a bit now; control has basically managed to survive by taking advantage of tools like Sludge Belcher that are rotating out, and this should help keep the playing field level.

lol

Aggro has not been too strong.

BROseidon · Post Post #3576 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:52 pm

In post 3574, Sudo_Nym wrote:Azure Drake isn't getting changed. It's just the comparison card for the effect. Azure Drake is a 4/4 draw 1 spellpower 1 for 5, while Ancient is a 5/5 draw 1 for 7. You're basically paying 2 mana for +1/+1 stats and the option to trade draw 1 for heal 5 and losing spellpower. Not a great tradeoff, especially since Drake is a neutral and Ancient's a class card.

Yeah, ancient should go down to 5. That way it also fights with DotC instead of... the nothing that exists on 7.

BROseidon · Post Post #3577 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:52 pm

Also, the Leper Gnome nerf should have been to its death rattle instead of its attack :/

Sudo_Nym · Post Post #3578 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:01 pm

In post 3575, BROseidon wrote:
In post 3572, Sudo_Nym wrote:I'm pretty happy to see Knife Juggler and Leper Gnome get nerfed, since aggro has been too strong for a bit now; control has basically managed to survive by taking advantage of tools like Sludge Belcher that are rotating out, and this should help keep the playing field level.

lol

Aggro has not been too strong.

Yeah, alright. Best meta decks are control and midrange. But still, fuck face decks yo.

BROseidon · Post Post #3579 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:27 pm

I hate how much Hearthstone players hate aggro. Aggro is the only playstyle that I actually like.

Sudo_Nym · Post Post #3580 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:06 pm

I actually don't really mind aggro that much. I hate playing as aggro, but "fair" aggro decks like face hunter I don't mind, and it's probably good for the meta game that decks like that exist. It's the ridiculous fart-out-a-win decks like Secret Paladin or Face Shammy that I really hate and want to see gone.

PJ. · Post Post #3581 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:31 pm

with reno being so pervasive, I think aggro is fine? Idk I'm not great but It just feels the aggro nerfs are not great. And I think Face is good to have in the meta because they are mega cheap for new players. Midrange and control cost 7k+ dust, but those face decks cost less than 3k. Face cost 1k or less. Idk i just feel they are pricing out new players by nerfing good fast cards like juggler and leper gnome

I've never seen master of disguise in anything so idk why they touched it.

BROseidon · Post Post #3582 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:34 pm

In post 3580, Sudo_Nym wrote:I actually don't really mind aggro that much. I hate playing as aggro, but "fair" aggro decks like face hunter I don't mind, and it's probably good for the meta game that decks like that exist. It's the ridiculous fart-out-a-win decks like Secret Paladin or Face Shammy that I really hate and want to see gone.

Face Shammy actually requires a decent amount of skill to manage overload and when to contest board vs. GO FACE.

BROseidon · Post Post #3583 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:34 pm

In post 3581, PJ. wrote:with reno being so pervasive, I think aggro is fine? Idk I'm not great but It just feels the aggro nerfs are not great. And I think Face is good to have in the meta because they are mega cheap for new players. Midrange and control cost 7k+ dust, but those face decks cost less than 3k. Face cost 1k or less. Idk i just feel they are pricing out new players by nerfing good fast cards like juggler and leper gnome

I've never seen master of disguise in anything so idk why they touched it.

Also a lack of Aggro means that control decks can get super, super fucking greedy.

Venmar · Post Post #3584 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:31 am

I'm not a fan of the nerfs they're rolling out. They might as well call them "making these cards garbage" rather than "nerfs".

Like, why call it a nerf when you completely change how the card works or make it completely not worth putting in ANY deck? FFs

BROseidon · Post Post #3585 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:26 am

Leper gnome is still playable.

BROseidon · Post Post #3586 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:26 am

As is force tbh

BROseidon · Post Post #3587 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:26 am

And Bgh is still really good.

Remove a 5+ mana minion for 5 that gives you a 4/2 body is still really good

3dicerolling · Post Post #3588 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:27 am

I didn't think leper gnome was ever overpowered, no clue why it got nerfed.

hasdgfas · Post Post #3589 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:22 am

In post 3588, 3dicerolling wrote:I didn't think leper gnome was ever overpowered, no clue why it got nerfed.

I assume because it was an auto-include in every single aggro deck and they want to see whether they can get some cards that are less automatic in every deck. At least, that's my thinking.

I'm mostly upset about Blade Flurry. I like playing Rogue and now the card feels way too clunky.

Sudo_Nym · Post Post #3590 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:30 am

I think they either should change blade flurry to not hit face, or cost more, but not both.

I don't think leper gnome or knife juggler were overpowered, but they were basically top end. They were as strong as neutrals could be for the price, so there was no reason to run anything else in those slots. And since they're classic cards which will never rotate out, they had to be toned down for anything else to see play. Though I'm not sure if leper gnome or abusive sergeant was more problematic at 1.

PJ. · Post Post #3591 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:13 am

Rogue already kinda sucked. Hitting the best card so hard is really a kick in the dick.

Sudo_Nym · Post Post #3592 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:04 pm

Yeah, I do wish that one of the cards yet to be revealed for rogue will be a board wipe to make up for nerfing Blade Flurry. They seem to be trying to push Control Rogue as a thing, so it makes sense that they should; I just wonder if they actually will.

Bins · Post Post #3593 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:07 pm

I'm like Reynad levels of salty about Knife Juggler nerf. How is that even close to good enough? Nerfing the attack doesn't do anything.

Sudo_Nym · Post Post #3594 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:39 pm

It means that 2/3s become more valuable, since they can trade into it efficiently.

BROseidon · Post Post #3595 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:18 pm

In post 3588, 3dicerolling wrote:I didn't think leper gnome was ever overpowered, no clue why it got nerfed.

The problem isn't that Leper Gnome was OP, it was that, for aggro decks, it made no sense to ever not run it. Now there's actual tradeoff (do you go for the 1/1 with a guaranteed 2 damage to face attached for it, or do you go for a slightly larger minion that may get removed, traded, etc)

BROseidon · Post Post #3596 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:18 pm

Also Kibler's point on Blade Flury makes a lot of sense.

It's not that Blade Flurry is OP. It's that it prevents Blizzard from doing a ton of shit with the Rogue class because of the potential for it to be OP.

BROseidon · Post Post #3597 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:19 pm

Basically it's not a balance issue - it's a design space issue.

BROseidon · Post Post #3598 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:22 pm

Also Kibler predicts that Abusive Sergeant will also get changed a la Leper Gnome eventually.

pickemgenius · Post Post #3599 (ISO) » Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:42 am

In post 3596, BROseidon wrote:
It's not that Blade Flurry is OP. It's that it prevents Blizzard from doing a ton of shit with the Rogue class because of the potential for it to be OP.

I'd believe that if Rogues got a good weapon in Old Gods... or any weapon...