Mini 515 - The Pine Barrens - Game Over!

[Boggzie]

/confirm

[Boggzie]

I know this is the comfirmation stage, but do we get a breakdown of roles/possible roles?

Number of Mafia would be helpful. Unless this game is played different, I am a little new here.

[Boggzie]

vote: Boggzie

I think I know you from somewhere. That makes you suspicious in my book!

indeed.

I shall return the favor!

Vote: mcpaltp

[Boggzie]

I actually suspect Ryan for a whole different reason, which I'll reveal in due time, but his behavior here hasn't helped.

unvote

FoS: Ryan

[Boggzie]

I actually suspect Ryan for a whole different reason, which I'll reveal in due time

, but his behavior here hasn't helped.

unvote

FoS: Ryan

That is a giant cop out and you know it. That's the same as a player saying "I'll contribute when it's closer to end game, I'll be more important than" If you're going to throw suspicion out there at least have the courtesy to back it up so I can respond.

Fine, I'll give it up now.

During our confirmation stage Mafia were allowed to communicate. I have my preferences on here set to email me notices of when I get a PM, as probably most of you do; I received a notice email of a PM from ryan, but it was "unsent" before I could read it. Now, being that Ryan and I have

no

connection other than this game, why would he PM me out of the blue? I believe the answer is pretty simple; he PM'd the wrong name from the list - he's scum.

So I'll lay out my vote now.

Vote: Ryan

The mistake of PM'img me also leads me to believe who the partner may be. However we'll see how they follow along now.

[Boggzie]

Your statement is 110% false. There IS a possibility that I PMed you to be in a game I'm currently modding and needing a replacement (Open 41 if anyone wants to check) but other than that what you've said is a 100% LIE.

Unvote/Vote:Boggzie

"mith@mafiascum.net" to me
show details Oct 15 (3 days ago)


Hello Boggzie,

ryan has sent you a new private message to your account on "mafiascum.net" and you have requested that you be notified on this event. You can view your new message by clicking on the following link:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/privmsg.php?folder=inbox

Remember that you can always choose not to be notified of new messages by changing the appropriate setting in your profile.


--
Thanks, The Management

If anyone would like I'll post a screenshot of my mail, seeing as how I seriously doubt our mod would allow me to forward it.

You're scum, aren't you, Ryan? Pretty rookie mistake too, damn typos.

I'd

love

Bookitty's thoughts on this, seeing as how I think that's who he intended to PM.

[Boggzie]

-- oh and another note, Rishi PMs my role at 853a, and out of the blue, just an hour later (954a), Ryan PMs me to be a replacement in his game? Right, right, just a coincidence.

You're a liar, man. You're scum and your partner is

so

hating you right now.

[Boggzie]

boggzie, did you get a PM?
there's a possibility ryan actually did send you a pm for replacement in his game. have you checked the game that he says he needed replacement in? were you interested in being a replacement for him? is your name close to anybody's name who did want to be a replacement. I find you to be a little too sure about this. PM's are sent out for many different reasons. I think you're making too much out of something that is possibly nothing, and that's scummy.

vote: boggzie

Are you serious?

Rishi PMs the roles at 853a, ryan PMs me one-hour, one-minute later and it's a coincidence?

I never asked to replace anywhere.

Also, invariably, instead of deleting the PM why didn't he just PM again and say; "oh already found someone" like

every other mod does

, had I even asked to replace anywhere anyway?

Why come back so hard if he knows I was lying? Why the huge OMGUS vote?

Even better - making a play like this is suicide if I'm lying. It serves no further purpose to make an accusation like this this early in a game this large. It's total stupidity if I'm just lying to knock off one player. Why would anyone with even the slightest amount of exp. in this game do that? Oh wait - they wouldn't!

Ryan's scum, period. His defense was a two-line OMGUS and you think I'm the liar? You're hilarious.

[Boggzie]

This is 100% crap. Do you know want to know why I voted Boggzie, because he is LYING and should have been mod killed for posting a message. I did NOT ever say that Boggzie asked to be replaced, I PMed a bunch of people that were online at the time as I was looking for a replacement quickly in the game. The message I sent was to replace into a game (I can't find it in my sent box at the time but I will keep looking) Listen I'm not going to bog down the town here on Day 1 but I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that I am not scum, Boggzie is lying and should be lynched for causing a complete and udder pile of flaming crap so far.

You appear awful upset for me being a total liar. Besides, you admit to PMing me, hence I'm not a liar. So, you're either so upset and angry that you're losing track of your train of thought, or you're telling lies to cover yourself. Either way - you're looking worse.

I even insinuated that you probably meant to PM Bookitty from the list, and sure enough she hopped right to your defense; making sure to include enough faux-doubt to distance.

I'm not going to get tunnell vision this early on anyone but you, because I know you're lying. You're falling all over yourself in doing so. The others will come to light, like they do in every game. You just made a bonehead mistake and now you're having to deal with it.

[Boggzie]

since I know for a fact that I received no PMs from ryan

What?

ryan has PMed me regarding replacing into Open 41 on October 8. I didn't feel I could do so at the time, due to having replaced into several games.

Didn't you just say you

didn't

receive a PM from ryan?

Are you aware, Boggzie, that if this is just a gambit on your part, you're likely to be lynched tomorrow if you're wrong?

Even better - making a play like this is suicide if I'm lying. It serves no further purpose to make an accusation like this this early in a game this large. It's total stupidity if I'm just lying to knock off one player. Why would anyone with even the slightest amount of exp. in this game do that? Oh wait - they wouldn't!

I've already stated that I know this is suicide if he's town.

Boggzie: Ya know what bro, the only reason I'm upset is because you have 100% lied on Day 1 and instantly put the town in a terrible and awkward position.

Teriible and awkward? You put the

scum

in a terrible and awkward position. If by some stroke of luck you make it to Day 2, tonight you're gonna have a bunch of 'splainin' tah do, Lucy.

Your PM (and you know it) was about replacing into my game. I have done nothing early on to show any sort of scum tails and if taking one persons word over another is how you people are going to vote (instead of finding evidence) I will gladly be lynched because the town does NOT deserve to win this game. For the last time, I am 100% town, period.

Um - wouldn't the smart thing to do, since at the point you PMd me would have been to let the PM stand as you

knew

you were in a game with me?

I haven't lied about anything, as you keep saying. I received a PM from you during the mafia-only communication time during this game. Which you confirm. If you're town,

which you're not

, I'll be lynched tomorrow - that goes without saying. However, I'm confident enough that you made a mistake to lay it on the line and prove now, very early, that I'm town.

[Boggzie]

Here's the thing, though; if Boggzie DID receive a PM, then he knows what it contains.

I don't know what it contains, he deleted it when he realized he PM'd the wrong person.

[Boggzie]

I'm unsure on 'Kitty. Her initial unwillingness to vote ryan, worried me. However, her eventual turn lessened it, but now it seems like it may be an overt "distance" ploy. She's not a huge worry to me right now.

hasdgfas

- I'd like to know your thoughts now. Keep your vote on me, whatever, but I'd like to know why you'd so quickly believe ryan's OMGUS reply & vote. I mean, I have the most to lose, really it's the only way anyone's believing me. So that weighed against a

blatant

OMGUS vote, and subsequent angry posts; where do you stand? How do you feel about ryan?

Unvote

Honestly, I think it's possible that ryan is telling the truth and was simply trying to look for replacements. Not certain, but definitely a possibility. Honestly, if I was town and I received a PM from a scum in the game who mistakenly thought I was his scumbuddy, I would ask to be replaced. But that's just me. So I'm not really engendered to Boggzie right now. At this point, it's a huge case of your word versus his, and I don't think we're going to get anywhere debating about it right now.

Here's the thing, though; if Boggzie DID receive a PM, then he knows what it contains. If he's trying to play up this "I received a PM from him he must be scum" angle while he KNOWS that's not what the PM was about, that makes him a liar.

FOS: Boggzie

TheHermit

- Again, I've the most to lose. Why would a scum make a claim like this

knowing

they'd be knocked off the next day? What sense would it make? It's not my word vs his, it's the game overall. All logical strategy would have to be tossed out the window. Why? To what gain? I'd love to hear you rationalize it out. Also, because I had this nugget of info and didn't ask for a replacement it somehow makes it less believable?

Overall, as I said before, I've only the one piece of evidence that I've shown. Everyone else, while some I must suspect more than others, are relatively equal to me right at this point.

[Boggzie]

I just had this thought. Boggzie says that he mus be innocent because of the risky move he's made. Well, sure, you're taking a risk if your town, but I wouldn't put it past mafia to make such a risky move, and here's why: mafia has backup. If all the mafia got in on the plot in the beginning, Boggzie would actually have less people to convince, making this move not nearly as risky as he's trying to make it out to be.

There is absolutely nothing I can say to counter this; you are 100% right. All I can say is simply read back through the thread and look at how reactionary ryan has replied. Nearly every reply has been a OMGUS!.

As far as Bokitty I have mentioned that she is less of a worry now as her confusion came off to me as sincere, but I am looking her direction because at one point she said she

did

get a PM from ryan, then she said she

didn't

. I dunno if it was emotional confusion or just she forgot her story. I'm thinking she was genuinely confused. However, I can see why a few of you are thinking me drawing her in was scummy. I can acknowledge that much. Let me reiterate, she's not a great worry to me at this point.

...but just so you know, it could easily be on ryan for the same thing. You just seem a little more...eager to get someone lynched quickly.

Your logic seems , well, logical. Although I don't see where I'm looking for a "quick lynch". Besides in a game this large, I find it hard to believe there is going to be a quick lynch. There's no way to give anyone any definative proof, just the same as I said already - there's a glaring difference between the two players you're weighing against one another.

That said;

The people who are voting me have zero evidence (you included) you are taking one person's word over another and calling it gospel and that is NOT how you play mafia. You take evidence and build a case, until you do that I will continue to call you out on this.

That

is a cop out stance. This entire game is based soley on what you post here; i.e "your words".

It's one thing if we're trying to solve a case in an American court of law, it's quite another to be playing this game.

However, you started replying so emotionally, and borderline irrationally that other folks' radar went off, and it only confirmed it all for me. You made a mistake, a quite costly one, and now you have to answer for it.

Because instead of saying that I might have sent him a PM to join my game he immediately said that I was scum trying to PM him and I messed up and sent it to my wrong scum buddy, that is a bold faced lie. I do not discount that I may have sent him a PM to join my game, and yes I realize he wasn't on the reaplacement list, but what I did (as I stated earlier) was PM people that were online at the time when I needed a replacement. I cannot find the message in my sent box and I sent out quite a few replacement inquiries that day so I do not know for 100% certain that I sent him a message to join my game BUT I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt I did NOT send him a PM as my scum partner as I am not scum

I have repeatedly stated I never read the PM - couldn't, you deleted it. You deleted it because you realized what you did - sent a PM to someone other than your partner. This is more of your jumping up and down "HE'S A LIAR! HE'S A LIAR!" when you acknowledge I'm not lying, you

did

send the PM, you

did

send it when I said you did. All this is is more of your desparation to get the spotlight off of you.

Without quoting my role I can tell you that he has lied about the contents of said PM. Basically the way I look at it is IF I sent him a PM (which I didn't)

Yes you did, you just said you did. Who's lying? This is more of your irrationality and emotionally filled posting here. You can't even keep your story straight.

...I was scum and he wasn't and it was past the speaking deadline than he should have reported it to the mod and one of us should have been modkilled for PMing AFTER the deadline was imposed, that would be breaking rules early on and easily fixed (by one of us being modkilled)

This a a last ditch effort to confuse people. I have posted the time of your PM (954a 15 OCT), all the players hadn't even confirmed until the 16th at 649p, it was post 20, look it up. Mafia was allowed to communicate during the confirmation stage, right? Your PM was well before the deadline. What a pitiful tactic to save yourself; trying to get me modkilled so you survive day 1 or yourself modkilled so you can save your record? Is that the last ploy now?

Ryan, you're seriously failing here, bro. You may want to just be quiet, aand hope your scum partners, if they haven't already turned on you for being so silly, can somehow bail you out.

[Boggzie]

If I was scum, I'd bus him.










Did he just say that? Oh snap! *joke* *joke* *seriously joke*

I don't know what "bus" means, does it mean "sacrifice"? That's kinda funny if it does.

Anyhow, if it does, I think everyone needs to smile a little, especially ryan. I hope he smiles anyway.

[Boggzie]

Boggzie: Than quote what was in the message that I sent you. You've already quoted that I sent you a PM that "must be scum" (in your words) so quote it and show everyone EXACTLY what was in it.

So, you're so misguided aand lost now that your not even reading your own accuser's posts? Or are you so painted into that corner you don't have another argument.

I have said, along with other players...here...I'll just quote it.

I have repeatedly stated I never read the PM - couldn't, you deleted it. You deleted it because you realized what you did - sent a PM to someone other than your partner. This is more of your jumping up and down "HE'S A LIAR! HE'S A LIAR!" when you acknowledge I'm not lying, you did send the PM, you did send it when I said you did. All this is is more of your desparation to get the spotlight off of you.

So again, are you really getting so desparate that you have no other option than to regurgitate your earlier defenses when they have already been addressed?

At this point I cannot see how anyone but your own partner could possibly defend you. I can't see how anyone else here can stand by and

not

see your just out on a limb, trapped by your own mistake, and doing anything, from asking for a modkill to blatantly lying, to save your own skin.

You're guilty, period. You really need to just be quiet unless you can come up with some other defense. You're only looking worse and worse.

[Boggzie]

I guarantee you will be lynched after my role is outed and that's not a "let's put fear into you" quote, why would I delete a PM I sent to you? That's just stupid. I have no scum buddies, my vote remains on you for lying and keeping up this crap logic and your badgering is bullshit.

Scum, anyone?

I'm tired of him being offered the benefit of the doubt. Just read all this. Terrible.

[Boggzie]

I don't have an adequate defense. The PM was real, it was far too suspicious in my opinion to let go. I just

knew

he was scum. I am unsure of where to go from here.

[Boggzie]

I expect to be lynched today. That is what I expect. That's what's best for the town.

If I'm not lynched, it's because the scum are shifting focus elsewhere because I'm easy to pick off later. The scum know I'm town.

If I am, then the game can proceed correctly, the only drawback is I'm town.

I made a mistake. There's no "oops", there's no pleading for my life. I saw no other reason for ryan to PM me except he was scum and made a mistake.

ugh, and this whole thing is filled with WIFOM. The correct thing to do is lynch me as the scum will use it against the town to turn you on me later, costing you another townie. That's the most honest assessment I can give.

[Boggzie]

I'm not lurking, no i'net @ home. I'm not

supposed

to be posting from work, but I didn't want to look even more scummy than I already do. I'net should be sorted by the weekend. If there's specific questions I can answer quickly feel free to fire away as I'll be checking in.

[Boggzie]

I feel that his "internet problem" couldn't have come at a better time. Take a couple of days off have a couple scumbuddies give the townies something else to think about while he gets away with letting ryan die.

That's silly. You can easily look at my involvement in other games. I stay involved, regardless. The problem is genuine. Just started a new job, went two weeks with no pay, and cable was the last on the list of priorities. I said I'd check in and answer any questions anyone had. I feel bad enough about the whole fiasco, I'm not lying to cover it up.

[Boggzie]

I quoted what I felt was the

spirit

of the first of your two highlighted posts.
And even though you later backtracked on this, the fact still remains that at one point you

were

attempting to set up a chain lynch.

The spirit?

I know I'm probably the last person to be tossing accusations around, but, uh - "the spirit"? I haven't played that many games, but I've been in enough to know you can't quote "the spirit" of a post. Either someone said it, or they didn't. Your "quiet time" and this worries me. And frankly, anyone defending me right now, even to me, looks scummy.

[Boggzie]

Boggzie, I would really like a response from you.

Relax - I still have no i'net at home.

I don't have a defense. Keep your vote on me. If you look back it was my first or second post on D2 asking the town to vote for me because the scum will use the D1 debacle to muddy the waters and use it against us later on. I'm town, I got a PM that seemed to be for no other reason than related to this game. I wasn't Mafia, so I assumed ryan had made a mistake, and was scum. Quite clearly I was wrong.

What do I think regarding the scum's current strategy?

I think they're laying back and making cases elsewhere

besides

me because I'm an easy lynch later. "

Look what he did to us! We would have a fighting chance if it wasn't for him, he has to be scum!

" All along to that point leading folks in the wrong direction. I think the scum are the ones, currently, pushing cases on anyone except me.

I'm 100% comfortable taking the lynch to clear the minds of everyone and take a ploy, sure to be played later, out of the hands of the scum.

[Boggzie]

note: GRandmother died, had to go out of town. I asked to be replaced in my other game becasue there were fewer players. I felt I could catch up here.

Anyway...

Has anyone considered we may be looking at a larger team then just two? I mean we have a larger town. It's hard enough to play scum, if you had only two teammates v town it would be nearly impossible I think.

Right now, I'm through with feeling bad about "yesterday" I made a mistake, if ryan would have taken it in stride, I would have believed him too. Just like everyone else.

I think we're looking at a larger team than just two. I think we may have three mafia folks hiding here. At the moment neko, Zak, and Admiral are sticking out at me. These appear to be the most threatening at the moment.

I want to see how Zak's replacement acts before I toss out a vote. A new person is going to want to play. I think that'll be our tell.

[Boggzie]

um...as you all know I check this from work - and in light of all of Adels analysis (i'm actually printing off the graphs now) I need to read over these.

wow.

just...wow.

[Boggzie]

I'm feeling Neko's vote on Adel is a distraction. I felt Zak was scum, but wanted to hold my vote to see how his replacement played - his replacement, weighing even his own evidence, leads me to believe he's pushing too hard.

"The lady doth protest too much."

Or maybe, in this case, "accuses too quick". My suspicions still lay on Adel/Zak, neko, and Admiral.

Admiral - I'd like to see you elaborate on who you're pointing your finger at. Why have you been so cautious?

I am almost positive we're looking at a three person team of scum at this point.

[Boggzie]

neko - you're off my list.

Adel - why defend your process in another game when no one called you on it?

Admiral - You seem like you're dancing. Suspect here, thought there. That's troubling, overcautious either means you're town/cop, or you're trying to blend in. I need more info to help me decide. You and Adel now top my list.

I've went over over the graphs again and again, to the extent of looking at them at home trying to be wholly separate from the game. They're simply nothing, noise if you will.

Looking for more info on Admiral and Adel.

[Boggzie]

In ref to neko - I would like to abstain from explaining why I took you off my list until Adel responds. I'm not ignoring your question. If it becomes obvious Adel's not going to cooperate, it's an answer in and of itself, and I'll be happy to explain then.

[Boggzie]

I'm dropping the hammer

vote: adel

[Boggzie]

Neko - you dropped of my "watch list" because you defended your position, and didn't jump away from your vote.

I dropped the hammer on Adel, because all of her (I guess) posts seemed like noise, distraction. Then, the self-vote I truly thought was a way of getting one of you to remove your vote from a mafia member. I figured Adel was banking on someone being too level-headed and cautious and removing a vote, or in my case or Admiral's we'd be too "standoffish" to toss a vote. Adel also never answered any questions, s/he only tossed around more noise and seemed to muddy the game.

[Boggzie]

I dropped the hammer on Adel, because all of her (I guess) posts seemed like noise, distraction. Then, the self-vote I truly thought was a way of getting one of you to remove your vote from a mafia member.

ok.

Adel also never answered any questions, s/he only tossed around more noise and seemed to muddy the game.

why didnt you pressure her for more info?

No no no. There were two to three posts from Adel between my question, when s/he voted

it

self, and when I dropped the hammer.

Which I already explained

. see post 416

[Boggzie]

I'm here. Just reading.

Admiral was evidently looking over the same thing I was - voting. There's very valid evidence there. It does appear only two folks line up consistently, in fact, so consistently they vote first and lead the way. Ad' just saved me a bunch of time writing it up.

vote: opie

[Boggzie]

Boggzie, since you are voting for me because of my voting record and that it lines up with mcpaltp's, is there any reason why you are voting for me over mcpaltp?

Admiral's post was, almost exactly, the case I was planning on writing up after two days of re-reading the game. When it comes right down to which of you to vote for it was simply a flip of the coin, although I could be swayed to oust the other if a vote is needed.

I will be completely frank and say I am still looking at a three person team for scum. Given that hypothesis this makes it LYLO (?; still learing my abbreviations). Although, all theories being equal, if there is a third, based on my own case (via Admiral), and evidence - it would be me . Since I'm sure of that being an incorrect result, it leaves it as good strategy for scum to keep this third member a secret. Perhaps having them not vote at all? In this case that makes it Admiral or has.

All of that said - I don't feel Admiral would have exploited his partners in an effort to simply distance. So, that leaves me thinking has is a strong possibility as a "hidden" partner for scum.

My vote stands.

[Boggzie]

I'm really interested in who the scum are. Promise me that you'll let me know if you found my actions to be a happy coincidence, or if there was deliberate triangulaiton.

Easiest scum victory ever.

You're getting a little emotional, man. Seriously.

[Boggzie]

I'm thinking of just hammering again to see where we stand. We're a month and a half into this, I think mcpaltp is just as guilty as opie.

I'll post later. I want to think on it before sticking the knife in.

[Boggzie]

unvote

Lots of thinking done. Opie and Mc are both guilty. Let's get rid of one of them.

Vote: mcpaltp

Bookitty's post sealed it for me. I think you're just trying to play the sympathy card.

[Boggzie]

Does anyone else get "lyncher's remorse" akin to "buyer's remorse" after they cast the deciding vote?

...I guess I do.