Scummies Ideas, Suggestions and Comments Thread

[pirate mollie]

In mafia, there's really no "cohesion" among town -- with no information, there's no way for people to reliably "team up".

this statement is such complete and utter bullshit I am not sure why you made it in the first place.

but by all means bring mafia back to the dark ages where town wins by accident. cos that is what that statement is encouraging.

what you are stating is that town are too stupid to find their own teammates and that any effort for self-improvement is futile.

uninformed majority will nearly ALWAYS have a hard time finding each other, that is why they shld be acknowledged when they actually DO.

[pirate mollie]

I encourage you to make a case for as to why the 4 lurkers or one sentence shit posters in your game deserve to relish in the same amount of recognition for the achievements and leadership of a handful to half a dozen solid townspeople. I know cases and examples can be made for games where full cohesion is more or less achieved across the majority of the towns but is there really going to be enough games

every year

of that caliber to warrant keeping the award around? Probably not.

then why not punish the lurkers.

I have been wanting this since forever.

sometimes good town play is to FOLLOW. I suppose the same cld be said for scum but for different reasons.

and yes there are several games of that caliber! if you guys need help then ask for it. but don't eliminate categories just cos you can't be bothered.

[pirate mollie]

muffina

[pirate mollie]

I for 1 am looking forward to pple giving less of a shit when they are town than they do now.

I can't wait! >.<

[pirate mollie]

Not at all what I'm saying or stating at all! You love to put words in people's mouths.

I'm saying that it makes more sense to award a "best team" role to the group that is

actually a team

and behaves as such.

In any game where an "uninformed majority" finds each other and locks in and behaves as a team, there are plenty of people in that uninformed majority who obstruct the process or are not a part of the "voting bloc" or whatever you want to call it. So we either have to give the award to people who objectively do not deserve it, or we can just say, "if there was a single person you felt stood out during that game as a great town player, nominate them". The latter is much easier.

I am not putting words in your mouth don't even.

the town game that I was happiest with was 1 where town didn't check out. it didn't get nommed and I think it was the single most game where town were able to find each other and work together as a team in a scum to town 1:3 ratio. I wld be hard pressed to pick any single town player in that game for "oh ty 4 winning this 4 us."

what you guys are doing is focussing on a single individual rather than promoting team effort. if that is your goal then sure.

I think it sucks and is pretty divisive. I mean if you can't be bothered than do away with the scummies altogether.

[pirate mollie]

You say you'd be hard pressed to point to any single town player: that's fine. Not every game has a standout town performance. But BASICALLY every game has people on the town's side who don't pull their weight and in order for the award to have any value, we'd have to exclude people from receiving it and there's no fair/objective way to do that. 2014: Reckoning 3 Invitational. There wasn't really any cohesion. We all argued around each other and wound up obstructing each other's lynches and were only saved thanks to some night play, but there was very little total cohesion. We all won for it anyway.

"Best Town Performance" winds up being an arbitrary act of looking at if a town mislynched or not, and then how difficult the scumteam was to play against. Then the award gets handed out without regard for who sucked up space and didn't deserve it.

We're focusing on rewarding

good town play

. In any game, someone is going to look more right than others in the town. That's why we're choosing to focus on the consistency aspect of the award, which cannot be done in a single game performance.

reck I really understand where you guys are going with this I really do. pple are competitive as it is and this devalues teamwork and promotes pple centering the game around their egos and solitary play and we have enough of that.

can you guys at least have a "best team" category that is neither town nor scum? that seems like a fair compromise.

the site needs to promote more teamwork IMO. not pretend it can't exist.

[pirate mollie]

@ reck

1. you and I know that is not how it works. pple will look at the single player and forget every1 else. how the hell is that even remotely fair. I think some of my best games are where I

followed

, not lead. mebbe I am craaaazy but I think collective cooperation ought to be recognized and appreciated.

2. promoting a single player above every1 else forces competition even if it happens unconsciously. sure, do away with scummies I am kewl with that it wld be much better than the environment that you are trying to create by changing the scummies distribution.

3. of course it is mr paragon of mafia catchers. I have been saying this for a long time. it is also why I want recognition for solid team play. <------ like this shld be the biggest thing that ought to be recognized.

4. mebbe I am an optimist but I generally think there is more than 1 person who is correct amongst town. it usually requires a collaborative approach.

[pirate mollie]

1. You're incorrect. I've observed judging for years in Scummies. Teamwork and team play is a huge factor in judging outcomes. There's not really a way to argue this. You're just flat out incorrect. I've seen the evidence. You can ask basically anyone who has judged Paragon. You are just blowing smoke on this.

Cooperation is recognized and appreciated

.

2. Scummies do not promote competition for the award. I don't really think anyone

tries

to be Paragon by going rogue on a town. If they do, they pay the penalty for it. Again: teamwork is a huge factor in town play.

3. You're missing the point here so I'm going to drop this line of conversation.

4. It requires collaboration between a couple people, sure. Or night actions. Or setup. Or whatever. But it

devalues

the idea of getting an award if the first place if half the town doesn't deserve it and just gets it by default. What about people who win the award after replacing in on the last day? Should they be eligible? Should the person who replaced out be eligible? Should someone who got prodded and lurked by eligible? How do you propose we distinguish between all of those things? What you're pushing for is essentially a participation trophy and that's not really what the Scummies are about.

1. mebbe cos there were teamwork categories to judge, which you are trying to eliminate.

also fun exercise:

show me where teamwork is promoted on this site

.

2. now you are just being a troll.

3. sure

4. silly me I must be retarded! can I call myself retarded? is that allowed? I thought the scummies were about recognition of good play and removing a team effort award from the scummies is pretty much donald trumping the system into some vacuous survivor like episode that you merely want to spectate in.

I know that me disagreeing with you will probably make you mad and I am sorry about that! but I think you are wrong here.

ffs this is me and me alone

[pirate mollie]

are you willfully ignoring that I am attempting to address the elimination of the team players categories?

cos it sort of seems like you are!

[pirate mollie]

As for the rest: teamwork is promoted because this is mafia and teamwork is a part of mafia. We have "how to play" guides and the like, but I fail to see how it is the Scummies responsibility to promote a specific aspect of townplay. I am not trolling when I tell you

teamwork and cooperation is heavily considered when judging Paragon

. This is a fact. This isn't really up for debate. I'm unsure what you mean by "Donald Trumping the system" -- are you just using political buzzwords or is there actual context behind it?

silly me I thought the scummies were about recognition, not promoting an aspect of any type of play.

okay then. by all means "promote" a single player over anybody else on their team. I bet the enjoyment of games will rise.

I guess an area where teamwork is promoted on this site doesn't exist huh.

eta: @ zoraster - plz don't beep boop this convo by looking up how many times certain words are used. I like you and I love reck but neither of you seem to have a pulse on the site or understand that what you are promoting is competition amongst town cos pple will want to stroke their ego. I wld rather the single player categories get eliminated before the team 1s do.

but y'all do whatever.

[pirate mollie]

Fair enough. Sorry you disagree.

its okay!

neither of you play enough games to have to live with the results of your decisions!

[pirate mollie]

I wonder if there is room for some amount of middle ground with something like a Best Synergy award. Allow it to apply to some subset of a team that plays well without having to include everyone.

if you cld find a middle ground I think that wld be fantastic.

I disagree with the elimination of the categories of team play. <---- I feel like team play is pretty integral to how the game is played regardless of alignment. no1 can do it on their own.

ffs I feel like I am speaking into the void.

[pirate mollie]

I think that keeping the scum team scummie intact while eliminating the town 1 is pretty funny and ironic.

[pirate mollie]

*points back to the five hundred times I've repeated why it's harder/less valuable to judge an entire town's performance versus a collaborated scum effort*

even when several members of the town sync, it's not a planned/coordinated effort. it's individual players coming together.

that doesn't explain as to why it shld be ignored when it happens. call it a unicorn scummy.

[pirate mollie]

*points back to the five hundred times I've repeated why it's harder/less valuable to judge an entire town's performance versus a collaborated scum effort*

even when several members of the town sync, it's not a planned/coordinated effort. it's individual players coming together.

that doesn't explain as to why it shld be ignored when it happens. call it a unicorn scummy.