Mini 1787: Peruvian Nightclub Mafia (Game End!)

[Bins]

fuck no i read through it again and i'm changing my mind again i really need to go to bed i dont think i've ever flailed this hard in a game

I still want a H_A lynch.
I feel as though whenever wagons move this late it is a result of a wagon moving off scum.

why would floof post this as scum?
but then again, why wouldn't floof post concern about the doc claim unless really trying to hold ground on the bussing?

either floof was town & really accurate about the read
or floof was scum & was really really going full commit on the busing thing and just looked sort of awkward because of it (like it "i am confident he will flip scum")

maybe... i'll meta floof

[Bins]

ok well floof has one game and it was abandonned night 1 hey that looks like a good sample size

but it tells me exactly what i was trying to find
she was town and she made posts SUPER EARLY

like

Spoiler: quote dump

That's something I can agree to.
HURT: Egg.

I am guessing you are scum this game?

No we aren't lynching egg because I am not voting with scum.

@mod how many lynches can the judge veto, is no lynching an option?

Also Ircher is scum.

Ranger/Ircher this is an easy game.

Ircher if you want to make is obvious you are scum after I clearly explained to you why claiming votes first is optimal you are scum.

For example if 2 people claim to vote Jeanne and 2 claim to vote the Ranger slot they are all conf town.
If there is 3 Ranger slot votes and 2 Jeanne slot votes we know the 2 Jeanne slot voters are town and there is 1 scum in the Ranger voters.

Like Ircher you are scum or bad because I am spelling out to you why this information is really good.

H_A is probably scum btw.

and i mean she didn't really have any bigger posts than those... that's it...


conclusion: i feel better about floof's "i kno u r scum no ands buts ifs or ors"

[zakk]

this oughta be rich. lol

[zakk]

heuristically_alone and egg being in those posts gives me such a headache

i wish you could have different skins for different games so you wouldn't get so confused on playing with the same players over and over

[Dunnstral]

I mean, I said already I thought there was at least one mafia in zakk/bins based on what I quoted at the bottom of the last page

What's rich

[Dunnstral]

I don't really think those quotes even show us much to be honest

[zakk]

you guys trying to prove that my predecessor was scum when i clearly already know the answer to that question. that will be rich indeed

[Dunnstral]

The arguments for you being scum have already been made a couple people posted general reads lists on people, I'll try to compile a list here

[Tyler the Creator]

stay the course, charismatic scum's tough to lynch but not impossible

[Dunnstral]

Aye aye captain

Nah bins never really had any sort of read anyway

[Tyler the Creator]

bins,

1, meta is trash
2, compare those floof posts to his posts here the tone is actually way different

it's hard to describe, but his entry here was tepid as fuck, like basically a "i got shit to do will post later" after the game was already rolling which is off right about because when you're not a big content poster to begin with and just go off feels it's way easier to jump right into the game - im exactly the same way so i should know

his ircher and ranger reads feel a lot more real there then his jaack and ha reads here, just the bluntness and indignation when talking about his scumreads there shines through and just reads townn

here, his scumread on jaack was soft, and the ha read - as ive pointed out and multiple people including yourself have ignored - was selective

[Dunnstral]

K analysis.

It occurred to me that we've actually gained a pretty valuable tool for finding the third scum if we can find the second scum.

The fact scum have daytalk changes the dynamic of HA's doc claim. There's no way scum wouldn't have discussed HA's claim prior to him claiming, so the other scum on the team would have had some kind of plan. IMO, there were only two objectives scum could've had there: assuming HA would die and voting him immediately, or trying to use HA's claim to dismantle his wagon.

So if we get a scumflip on a player who bussed HA after he claimed doc, it would be logical to assume that the other scum player also bussed HA. And if we get a scumflip on a player who seemed like they were waiting to see how other people reacted, or who actively tried to dismantle the HA wagon, we would do well to look for another player that acted similarly.

Specifically, if Robert is scum, this suggests that the scum were trying to save HA with his doc claim, because why would Robert step in and claim macho townie if not to save HA? If that were the case, and we would only know for sure if we got a scumflip on Robert, then we would do well to hunt for the last scum within the pool of people who tried to argue that HA was town after the doc claim.

On the Robert claim

, I'm less inclined to lynch him than I was toward the end of D1. Part of this has to do with rereading the last part of #596. I finally understand what he was saying. We were thinking about game balance in different ways, I think. I was thinking about how a mod would try to have roles

interact with each other

, while Robert was talking about weighing

negatives against positives within the town

. While I think we disagree about how bad a macho townie is for town, I get the basic logic at least.

On top of that, I also realized that it's weird to see fakeclaiming, gambiting scum not only coming up with the super weird fakeclaim of macho townie, but then having that explanation (from #596) for why they think a macho townie would be in the game. The structure of what he's writing doesn't really fit in with the kind of mindset that a scum partner would have to have in order to think that fakeclaiming under those circumstances was a good idea.

Spoiler: The HA wagon

-Final lynch: Keyser, Floof, tool, Jake, Tyler, Jaack, Dunn
-Keyser: One of the first players to suspect HA, starting in #222. Votes HA in #297 after HA makes a case on Keyser. At this point, for them to be partners it would pretty much have to be a designed bus. That's possible, but I lean town on it just because I find it less likely than the explanation that they just aren't partners and because there wasn't really a reason to bus at that point -- neither was in any real danger of being lynched. Knowing that HA is scum actually makes it look like he was trying to take advantage of some of the early suspicion on Keyser (HA's #268 actually was him trying to put logic behind a post where Dunnstral said he suspected Keyser but didn't have any reasoning for it). Once HA claims, Keyser immediately doubts it, though it is worth pointing out that he didn't comment until after ira had counterclaimed. So if Keyser were scum, scum were definitely following the "scum expected HA to die" tactic.
-Floof: First mention of HA is a vote for him in #187, saying HA needed to post more. Later he doesn't answer my question about why he wanted HA to post more than any other player in the game. Points for Floof making one of the earlier non-RVS votes of HA in the game (first?), but the reasoning is weird enough it does make me wonder if it could be bussing. In #367, Floof says the original vote was just to prod activity out of HA, but now he's scumreading HA (at this point floof isn't voting anybody, and he doesn't explain the scumread on HA). Floof explains in #373 that he felt like HA was following wagons, and Floof votes HA. The timing of this is interesting because it's before HA's doc claim and floof said he was either going to vote ira or HA. Ira was the leading wagon (4 votes), but the HA wagon had just gained steam with two votes on HA on the same page (putting the HA wagon at 3 votes). So as a scumpartner, Floof went for a bus even when there was a viable alternative wagon in ira. Water down the townpoints on that for the fact that the HA wagon was the trend at the time and that floof's vote still only put HA at L-3 (not all that dangerous).

Edit from later: Floof actually basically did the same thing that jaack did in choosing HA over ira, but he did it after jaack and dunnstral on the same page. Actually a little suspicious.

Floof's #486 and #631 are asking why people are moving off of HA (this is after HA's doc claim), so if floof is a partner to HA then he's in the "scum expected HA to die" camp.
-Jake: As far as I can tell, Jake's first real interaction with HA comes in #277 and it's a theory debate (up til this point Jake's been doing a lot of that because of disagreements over readslists and such). In #298 he says HA has made some good points and criticizes a vote on him. This strikes me as pretty brazen for scum, especially given that Jake had no real need to do it, and so I lean town on it. Another defense of HA in #337. Jake is also the first to really push HA's inconsistencies, which he does in #410. In fact that's what pushed me to look at HA further. Again, no need for scumpartnerJake to do this, especially since he was already townreading HA, and it led to HA's lynch. So I don't see Jake as a scumpartner. That being said, just to do due diligence, Jake's reaction to HA's claim was to unvote immediately, and then revote HA immediately once ira counterclaimed, then unvote and say that there have been games where both BGs and docs existed. So if Jake is alive in LyLo or something (which I don't expect him to be if he's town) then I think we could put him in the "scum were trying to save HA" camp.
-Tyler: First interaction with HA is #301 and it's nothing very telling. It's kind of interesting, actually, that Tyler basically ignores HA until HA's claim. Tyler actually did not post for the two days leading up to the claim, and then he posted about 20 posts after HA claimed doc. He doesn't really weigh in until after ira's counterclaim, and it's in kinda vague language ("doc and bodyguard both existing in a mini is kinda meh"). In #505 he sets up floof as a possible lynch of HA flips scum. He does some theorizing on the competing claims (#523), but doesn't really take a stance until #540 when he says he's fine with an HA lynch. He hops onto the Robert wagon in #628 after initially pushing against it, and clarifies later that he would still support an HA lynch. A lot of this just kinda raises my hackles as scum avoidance of the subject and trying subtly not to lynch HA. The fact that he disappeared for two days and then came back right as HA claimed would lend support to the "wait-and-see" scumbuddy approach. If Tyler is scum, he's in the "scum were trying to save HA" camp.
-Jaack: His very first post is a vote on HA in #5, and while this is very probably RVS, it does follow a Dunn vote. Maybe not super telling on its own but good to note I think. He puts HA as second-most-likely scum in a readslist in #357 and most of his reasons make sense. He actually votes HA over ira in the next post, and he explains it later by saying that his vote on ira wasn't doing anything. I lean non-partner on this. Very interesting reaction to HA's doc claim in #480, he is indeed the first person to point out that doc is a standard scumclaim and at the same time concedes that it'd be better to leave it be just in case HA is actually the doc. He later gives intent to hammer HA after ira's counterclaim, and then once Robert claims he pushes a kind of pragmatist's approach that favors lynching Robert before HA. I lean town on jaack based on the earlier interactions with HA (probably the biggest piece being him voting HA over ira), but if he is scum then he was in the "scum were trying to save HA" camp.
-Dunnt: Don't really consider Dunn's vote of HA in #4 to be anything. In #129 he leaves HA off a readslist (one of 3 people he leaves off the list). He notes that HA isn't saying much in #162, but votes for Bins instead. Dunn defends HA against floof in #193. Dunn's response to HA in #285 is the kind of catty I don't really expect from scum partners (he calls HA dumb). He votes HA in #365, right after jaack but before floof. He unvotes HA immediately after the doc claim in #483, with the kicker that it "Looks like we're all believing him" -- very similar to jaack's reaction. He's back to HA after ira's counterclaim, and then in #519 suggests that maybe the daytalk is a way of compensating for town having two protective roles. He revotes HA in #553, unvotes HA after Robert's claim and says in #630 that all three could be town. He actually kinda wobbles back and forth on this a bit, saying he still thinks HA is scummy and ira is towny but maybe Robert is telling the truth and they're all town. He says he keeps thinking HA might be town, but then declares intent to hammer and does hammer HA (after zach declares intent to hammer, but earlier than dunn). Up until the HA claim, Dunn looked pretty much not like a partner. But the weirdness around the doc claim opens up the door again imo. Needless to say, if Dunn is a partner then he's in the "scum were trying to save HA" camp.

Spoiler: Robert's claim

-Robert's claim was in #563. After that, the people who voted him were: Jaack (#616) and Tyler (#628).
-So it wasn't really much of a wagon. But more people weighed in on it than voted.
-Jaack is the first player to say Robert is scum in #590.
-Bins poses the question in #591 of whether Robert, ira and HA could all be town. In #598, once Robert seemed to say the PM said "weak" but was describing a macho role, Bins reverses and says Robert might be scum.
-In retrospect, Tyler's #609 doesn't make sense. He said he can't remember the last time he saw scum misread their role PM...which, if Robert is scum, he's fakeclaiming. So it's not like he would be reading a role PM incorrectly...I'm not really sure what to make of this, honestly. Does it suggest scumTyler knowing that Robert is town and therefore not thinking all the way through the scenario of Robert being scum? Is it townTyler just half-baking a thought? I guess it might be weird to see scumTyler working this hard to lynch his partner, HA, instead of townRobert.

Edit from later: Tyler explained this; he was thinking of a fakeclaim.

-Wow, then Bins agrees with it in #612.
-#622 is intentional WIFOM from HA for sure.
-Tyler naked votes Robert in #628.
-Dunn casts doubt on Robert being scum in #629, floof does the same in #631, Zach says he doesn't think Robert is scum in #644.
-Xyzzy and ira come along townreading Robert in #652 and #653.
-Not really understanding Bins' #681. She speculates that Robert could be scum or town and then says "Robert's move, much like irao's, is crazy town."

Edit from later: Bins explained this too.

Conclusions:

-More suspicious of Tyler now.
-More suspicious of floof now.
-Jake is probably town.
-Keyser is probably town.
-Bins is maybe town.

Up next:

-Looking through HA's ISO for interactions.
-Examining the cognitive dissonance I have when considering the possibility of a Tyler-floof/zakk-HA scum team.

HA's interactions with...

Dunnstral:

-#268 is HA providing reasons to Dunn for why Keyser might be scum. It seems a little more coordinated than I would expect from two partners...possible, but I lean town.
-The second half of the post is....a little harder to tell. HA is clearly buddying up to Dunn. My first thought rereading this is that HA was trying to drop associatives with Dunn so that if he flipped we would come back and think townDunn was HA's partner. And then it veered immediately into WIFOM territory from there when I realized it could also be HA trying to look too buddy-buddy with his partner for people to ever think they were scumpartners. I'd tend to believe the former (that HA was buddying up to townDunn) over the latter, just based on the different levels of insidiousness and foresight necessarily involved in each scenario.

Robert:

-Says Robert's been inactive and he doesn't have a read on him in #281, but leaves open a door to possibly scumread Robert later. This one could go either way in terms of looking partner-y.
-Suddenly has Robert as a top-two scumread in #392.
-Ah right, and then Jake points out the weirdness about HA's flipflop on Robert, which is that before #392, HA was talking about Robert like he was town and using that to justify another read (on jaack I believe).
-And then in #434 HA talks about mixing up Robert and Zach re: which person he'd asked if they were scum. He says he mixed up games, but bottom line is HA invented reasons to scumread Robert. That suggests HA is not partners with Robert imo. The whole arc looks a lot more like HA being opportunistic scum than it looks like bussing scum.

Bins:

-HA's take in #281 on Bins' #38 is pretty weird. It's like he's saying that regardless of whether Bins looks towny or scummy, she will be scum. Lean not partner on this.

Zachstralkita:

-#265 seems pretty ballsy for a partner-on-partner interaction. I think I'd actually have to give kudos to HA on this one if he's partners with Zach because this just does not seem like a partnery interaction at all.
-HA's reasoning for keeping his vote on Zach in #281 feels forced.
-Yeah he just clearly is trying to come up with reasons to keep his vote on Zach. Feels like HA was treating Zach as a safe haven for his suspicions. Def does not look like partners to me.

Keyser:

-Again, #268 doesn't seem like HA talking about a scum partner to me. A player brings up that they can't justify a scumread on HA's partner and HA volunteers reasoning for why his partner is scum?
-In #394 HA puts Keyser in his top three for scum for a dumb reason. Reminds me a little of how it looked like he was reaching for reasons to scumread Zach actually.

xyzzy:

-Only three mentions of xyzzy in HA's ISO, and two of them are when he's using xyzzy to explain his townread on Dunn.
-The third is in his readslist in #281, and it's an underdeveloped townread on xyzzy.
-This is maybe partner material.

floof:

-And an underdeveloped scumread on floof in that same readslist (#281).
-Literally no other comments on floof throughout the game.
-Also maybe partner material.

Tyler:

-Only real mention of Tyler is in the #281 readslist, and it's a townread...despite the fact that he first points out that he doesn't understand why tyler posted his first post. The townread is for having similar thoughts about the game.
-Also maybe partner material.

Jaack:

-By far the weirdest thing here is HA at first treating Jaack like he's town by looking for scum going after Jaack (#281), then later reversing (#329) and talking about how scum would be more likely to go after Robert's vote (like Jaack did). That's basically the bulk of his interactions with Jaack actually. It seems almost like HA slipped that he wasn't Jaack's partner by first treating Jaack like he was town. Part of that theory has to do with how HA responds to Jake in #422, by repeating what he said in #329 even though it didn't make sense. It's like he was trying to cover up a mistake he'd made, the mistake being that he had forgotten to leave room for the possibility that Jaack was scum.

Jake:

-Gives a somewhat confusing reason for townreading Jake in #281. Other than that, not really a whole lot of any thoughts on Jake. Jake's interactions with HA are far more significant imo.

Looking better: Dunn, Robert, Bins, Zach, Keyser, Jaack

Neutral: Jake

Looking worse: xyzzy, floof/zakk, tyler

I'm not feeling well and am kinda tired so this post is shorter than I'd like it to be.

to clarify, I still think Zachstralkita has been acting scummy; I just think that 1)I was mostly looking at his actions on their own, not really focusing on who might be scum with him, which isn't that useful, especially following a scum lynch, and 2)I was probably a little too insistent that not productively contributing to the town is inherently bad, and I need to reread and think about what all stood out to me throughout day 1.

I didn't ever vote Jake yesterday because I felt like my vote being on Zachstralkita was more useful/productive. later, Jake started to do things that felt more town to me. (see my post 447)

re: whether Robert's claim is scummy: Jake is using the logic that no sensible scum would ever make that fake claim to prevent their partner from being lynched, because that would just result in them also being lynched; the argument that something is so scummy that no scum would ever do it feels really flawed and I don't like it at all.

731 (Dunnstral) - I don't understand how this isn't obvious to anyone else; h_a, who was scum, tried arguing that Floof and Bins aren't scum together, and then almost immediately after suggested that they're both scummy, without any other info. I think h_a was trying to avoid saying anything too substantial about anyone, while still trying to make at least 1 scum partner look better.

Jake: continuing the whole "Dunnstral was lying" thing (757) is pointless. it seems like Dunnstral stopped acknowledging this argument because it's a bad one, and because you refused to acknowledge that anyone else's opinion on the matter had merit. just because you refuse to have a meaningful discussion on the topic where you acknowledge the arguments made by other people doesn't make your argument valid. pretty much the opposite in fact!

zakk's lack of contribution feels deliberate. it's bad.

Keyser spent a lot of time criticizing ira but didn't vote ira, and then as soon as h_a started repeating the same arguments ira had made, voted h_a; this feels really weird and inconsistent, but now that we know those players' respective roles, it's almost certainly not evidence that he's scum.

Dunnstral is town. Tyler is town. Keyser is probably town. so is toolenduso. Zachstralkita and Jake have been better today than they were yesterday. Jaack is town. Bins might be scum. the vote on zakk is a good one. Robert is probably town.

VOTE: zakk

Note: I actually had a problem with the reasoning on this one and talked about it a short while ago

That's obviously not everything on the topic, just some additional opinions

Notable keyser had some mild suspicion just from looking at h_a's iso but he had a bunch of people listed as suspicious (and I think he has more stuff on the way)

[Dunnstral]

Also notable that both h_a and floof were in that other game, I didn't get that vibe at all. Hint: mafia have daytalk

[Bins]

UNVOTE:

zach did u ever explain this unvote

[Dunnstral]

lemme read up before we lynch anything please

[Bins]

bins,

1, meta is trash
2, compare those floof posts to his posts here the tone is actually way different

it's hard to describe, but his entry here was tepid as fuck, like basically a "i got shit to do will post later" after the game was already rolling which is off right about because when you're not a big content poster to begin with and just go off feels it's way easier to jump right into the game - im exactly the same way so i should know

his ircher and ranger reads feel a lot more real there then his jaack and ha reads here, just the bluntness and indignation when talking about his scumreads there shines through and just reads townn

here, his scumread on jaack was soft, and the ha read - as ive pointed out and multiple people including yourself have ignored - was selective

yeah 1 game meta is trash but it proves that town floof did act like that before

and i feel the posts are very similar in the way that he was sort of blunt and maybe ever awkwardly forceful about his reads
especially the "blah blah blah YOU ARE SCUM" post i feel reads the same

i just don't see how his position on the wagon is scummy unless he was really committed to bussing H_A
which does make sense because he didn't flinch at the doc claim (but i feel like that sort of goes with the stuff from above)

[Bins]

lemme read up before we lynch anything please

K MAN DID I ASK YOU THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN THAT

[Bins]

wait you know fuck this i have time and i'm not tired

toolenduso - "hi i appear sometimes with super good posts and i had a really good reaction to the ira claim that made bins feel really good" (493) and tool didn't jump on the Robert wagon and actually kept his wits about him and i feel like in posts 640 (saying no to Robert) and 667

Dunnstral - "hi i give bins good feelings but that's about it" and his fucking stance on the H_A and Ira THING IS SO NULL

Robert2424 - "hi im a wea- fuck"

Zachstralkita - "hi i never hesitate so i'm town af but lol look at all the fucks i give there are none"

Keyser Söze - "hey guys i was right about h_a all along fuckerS"

xyzzy - "hi i put a lot of effort and i've been PRETTY NULL but i didn't jump on the robert bad wagon so that's pretty good and idk why people are scum reading me pls guys stop PoEing me"

Zakk - "lol guys don't vote me i don't even have my role PM yet and i really didn't give info with my reads post that much eh and everything floof did was just so eh"

Tyler the Creator - "hi i give bins so many vibes shes probably just going to ignore me until i do somethign really scummy but i havent yet so thats good"

Jaack - "hi my name is MR FUCKING OPPORTUNISTIC"

Jake from State Farm - "hi i think Dunn is scum and i'm stubborn about it so that's pretty town of me and also other reasons huhuhu"







tyler what do u think of jaack?

[Bins]

sorry i actually lost interest after my tool read as you can see exibxit A and i just thought i'd still give general impressions

[Bins]

@Dunnstral has been by far the most entertaining player for me to follow in this game so far. As for liking him, makes me want him to be town. Best proof I have of you being town is your response to post 34 by xyzzy.

: |

fuck this makes me townread Dunn so hard

[Bins]

@Dunnstral has been by far the most entertaining player for me to follow in this game so far. As for liking him, makes me want him to be town. Best proof I have of you being town is your response to post 34 by xyzzy.

: |

fuck this makes me townread Dunn so hard

[Dunnstral]

Why are you suddenly starting to get a jaack wagon going

[Dunnstral]

Eh, I actually like Zach's stuff right before the hammer.

p-edit - I'M NOT DONE CHILL.

I'd say right now scum is in zakk > xyzzx, and maybe Jaack (if not xy). I'd say I lean strongly towards zakk and xy. I still haven't looked at Jaack before the lynch.

??? So what did you find

[Bins]

First off, I found it so strange that so many people read Jack so early on as scum or town based on his vote in post 13 against Robert. I think anyone voting him as an easy vote at the beginning makes for possible scum players,

(Keyser, tool, floof for example)

, not that I'm saying that one of them HAVE to be scum. As for Jack, I don't have enough information yet from him to really say for me what he is, but for now I'm leaning on town.

the jack read is interesting as is tho

Spoiler: xyzzy

I'm thinking town at this point. More of a gut feeling. There have been quite a few posts done that seems to be generally seeking more information from players and challenging players on their spots and it just feels pro town to me

HMMM
too lazy to put quote tags sorry fam

Spoiler: tyler

vote:xyzzy

guess why im voting this

Still confused about what you meant by this. Were you assuming that we though it obvious why you voted thus?
First assumption is that Tyler is town. Also a gut choice. He does seem to think Jack is town and has some doubt on Bins like me, so with common thoughts, I'll put him as town for now.

idk i feel like this isn't a scum partner stance because of the fact he mentioned a post lmfao but other than that really neutral

Spoiler: Toolenduso

As you might have guess from my Jack reading, I have a little suspicion towards tool. Also like Keyser, posts clarifying posts but lacks giving some original content to help town.

null

Spoiler: Zach

My vote stays on Zach for now.
70 "Also, I'm certain you guys aren't aware of this, but I have a mental power thing like I can see into people's hearts with my mind. Like a scouter for your soul. I have the intuition of a reincarnated something. Sure, It's natural to be skeptical, but expect me to make a definite solid statement on the true identity of the scumteam at some point and be super right. Maybe today. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe 19 days from now. Maybe in 5 minutes." I find this a scummy post. Obviously trying to have some fun with the game, but also poking fun around the the time limit and not giving definite times. This type of joking is something I've seen other mafia and myself do as scum.
146Why are you so eager to get Dunn on the wagon? I think that Dunnstral's line of thinking could be considered a threat to the mafia and would want him destroyed

@Zach What's all this shade getting thrown my way without really saying anything of value

You're scum.

Refuses to give explanation of vote other than "He is scum". Voting people without evidence hurts town.

There's not much to say at this point, you lynch him, he flips scum, yay, you lynch him, he flips town, you lynch me.


More likely: You lynch me, I die, no one does anything about Dunnstral following this.

I vote the last option. If we are wrong and you are townie, than we can go after Dunn.

idk this looks pretty good for zach

Spoiler: Floof

Also a suspect of mafia for voting Jack. There hasn't been any more substantial reading from Floof to get more of an opinion.

EHHH ehhh...

Spoiler: Jake

246Asks people to not use lists because it helps the mafia out too much and doesn’t help the town. If this is an earnest request, then it makes Jake town, whether or not people agree with him on his opinion of read lists

[/quote]
super null

[Bins]

At this point, Zach is still my number one scum read.

i don't think this was bussing

Whoever people want to vote out first: Zach, Robert, or Keyser, I am more than happy with getting anyone one of those 3 out.

: |

I want to say these aren't bussing either but can't be certain. Man... probably most likely is Robert scum or Keyser went hella bus mode with H_A? Possible? Bah. Nah, too deep to look into.