Open 638: Friends and Enemies! (And Enemies!) - GAME OVER!

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: Kop

You're not cop, not in this game anyway.

[BTD6_maker]

{randomidget}
{Creature, Kop}
{BTD6, Masquerade}
{Charloux}
{Kasumeat, Javajoe}
{Killthestory, karnos}

One.

What does that mean? If it's a reads list, which side is town? Can you even have such strong reads yet?

[BTD6_maker]

Ranger's reads are godlike. His accuracy is insane.

Well, then, wanna lynch one of them?

VOTE: Killthestory.

All Ranger has right now is a very uninformed gut. How can you have anything more than very weak reads during RVS?

That said, the RVS is essentially meaningless without any real stakes. (Scum can just dice vote and pass it off as real). Thus, purely to see how he (as well as others) react to this and to up the pressure, VOTE: Randomidget.

[BTD6_maker]

KuroiXHF, I think Karnos voted DrDolittle, not me,

[BTD6_maker]

This should suffice for now, anyway. My posts should be easier to see with an avatar. Currently even I sometimes miss them when scrolling.

[BTD6_maker]

I don't get where any of your reads are coming from. Do you actually have strong reads yet or are even the bottom ones weak?

[BTD6_maker]

I'm also suspicious of KTS right now for the same reasons, but that readlist by Ranger with the Moderator in it is super sketchy. I've never that specific slip before, but it smacks of "I'm not really thinking about these reads, I'm constructing them" which is scummy as fuck. Every time I've seen players give reads on dead players, it's been a scumslip.

VOTE: Ranger

I personally find it more like a confused Town. I know this because in my last game (Newbie 1700) I actually said that a dead player (Karnos) should claim. Needless to say, I was quite confused but it didn't matter as a Cop claim by someone else actually won us the game.

[BTD6_maker]

UNVOTE:

My RVS vote wasn't doing anything. RVS seems to be very Non Alignment Indicative.

I think that Kasumeat is a very slight scumread at the moment (effectively nullscum). It's the strongest I have and it's certainly better than an RVS vote.

VOTE: Kasumeat

[BTD6_maker]

PEdit: If you wouldn't mind explaining the BTD6 readm that would be great thanks

Sure thing. I liked 9 a little, so BTD started as a mild townread: not solid, but placed well enough on page one. 31 was a fairly typical first-Ranger-game response, except this line:

Can you even have such strong reads yet?

Rubbed me the wrong way. This was further amplified by 40, where they defended Killthestory and attacked the strength of my reads. It's one thing to ask how I can have reads, it's another to state it is impossible for me to have them, and BTD looked like they were doing the latter. The vote on you for pressure felt like a horrible afterthought thrown in to make them look like they were doing something. This bounced back in 79, because

that

was the way I was originally expecting a town player new to me to ask about my reads, yet I had given no prior indication of this and there were no hints in-thread that this is what I was looking for.

I was trying to ask how it was possible for you to have reads at all, when there was next to nothing of note so far as RVS is full of NAI. I was not implying that you do not have reads, that it it impossible to have reads at that stage, or that you are scum for having early reads.

[BTD6_maker]

And defending a scumbuddy in a two-man scum team is suicide.

To the contrary, if you don't defend a scumbuddy in a two-man scumteam, you lose.

"Buddying really fucking hard is not scummy at all, so don't vote me. Also, vote Kasu and Ozy because Ozy is buddying him." — Ranger 2016

Buddying is in fact a good reason for a player to be scum in this case. Do show how there's any buddying from me. It doesn't even have to be me to others, though that seems to be your implication; demonstrate the alleged buddying to me. I see none.

I agree that it was an horrible post, in general, but is it more likely to come from scum or town?

This is scum, defending scum, while trying to maintain a neutral stance: "Yes, it's bad, I agree it is bad, but..." is basically classical scum behavior, especially for a fairly new player.

As far as I know, scum can speculate about Masons in their thread.

The wiki says otherwise; they, along with the masons, have only night talk.

If not defending a scumbuddy is suicide then scum will defend each other. If defending a scumbuddy is suicide then scum will not defend each other. Either way, on its own it's probably unremarkable. What is noteworthy, though, is defending a scum for no apparent reason.

[BTD6_maker]

In my last game both scum self-voted for some strange reason. I can see no Town incentive to self-vote. Scum may try to shorten the day, generate confusion, or make their scumbuddy look good. I think we should lynch Kasumeat, but first we should discuss things a bit more to resolve any potential confusion and possibly find his scumbuddy.

[BTD6_maker]

That was my point. Lynching too early will harm Town, which is why I suggested discussing until we are absolutely sure or the deadline approaches.

[BTD6_maker]

@BTD6: I checked that game, newbie 1700 right? Wow, I feel sad you had to go through that. Such a bad effort and something that barely happens. I've also seen town get frustrated enough to selfvote and I've thought about doing it once or twice as well but it's bad form to do as town. As scum as well btw, either way it's screwing over your team.

It mostly is bad regardless of alignment. However, for Town there pretty much never is any advantage. As scum, it mostly harms your faction but at least there is the hope that you are helping your partner to escape detection or make them look good or making a Townie look bad. For example, when RadiantCowbells self-voted I was not sure of his intentions but it may hae been to make me look suspicious even before the flip. Tojam2 just gave up - we had a guaranteed win anyway. Essentially, self-voting as scum (when there is another partner alive) is essentially a form of self-bussing.

I can't understand Kasumeat's motivation though as Town. Kasumeat, if you are Town, please unvote.

[BTD6_maker]

In post 195, BTD6_maker wrote:
In post 185, Masquerade wrote:
@BTD6: I checked that game, newbie 1700 right? Wow, I feel sad you had to go through that. Such a bad effort and something that barely happens. I've also seen town get frustrated enough to selfvote and I've thought about doing it once or twice as well but it's bad form to do as town. As scum as well btw, either way it's screwing over your team.


It mostly is bad regardless of alignment. However, for Town there pretty much never is any advantage. As scum, it mostly harms your faction but at least there is the hope that you are helping your partner to escape detection or make them look good or making a Townie look bad. For example, when RadiantCowbells self-voted I was not sure of his intentions but it may hae been to make me look suspicious even before the flip. Tojam2 just gave up - we had a guaranteed win anyway. Essentially, self-voting as scum (when there is another partner alive) is essentially a form of self-bussing.

I can't understand Kasumeat's motivation though as Town. Kasumeat, if you are Town, please unvote.


Self voting usually means three things:

1. Frustated town.

2. Scum faking frustated town.

3. Scum who just self hammered.

I think we are in the first situation here.

If he is frustrated town, then unvoting himself will undoubtedly be beneficial to Town. This s why if he is Town he should unvote in his next post.

[BTD6_maker]

UNVOTE:

This makes Kasumeat look more like a genuine frustrated player who realised his mistake. I'm not saying he can't be scum, but his self-voting is no longer a strong scumtell to me.

[BTD6_maker]

Weak town: Creature, Masquerade, Randomidget
Null: Javajoe, Ranger, Karnos, Charloux,

Kuroi <3

Weak scum: KillTheStory, Kasumeat, Ozymandias

My reads are fairly weak as of now.

VOTE: KillTheStory

[BTD6_maker]

Weak town: Creature, Masquerade, Randomidget
Null: Javajoe, Ranger, Karnos, Charloux,

Kuroi <3

Weak scum: KillTheStory, Kasumeat, Ozymandias

My reads are fairly weak as of now.

VOTE: KillTheStory

And Kop?

Kop has posted so little that it was barely worth trying to read him.

Weak town: Creature, Masquerade, Randomidget
Null: Javajoe, Ranger, Karnos, Charloux,

Kuroi <3

Weak scum: KillTheStory, Kasumeat, Ozymandias

My reads are fairly weak as of now.

VOTE: KillTheStory

your reads are absolute ass. absolute A S S

Is that an OMGUS attempt because I scumread you? My reads differ from yours. That doesn't make them bad reads.

[BTD6_maker]

omg youre ass. an OMGUS is a vote, not a fucking opinion.

yes, it does. my reads are always right, your's differ from mine a lot. therefore, your reads are ass

You are essentially FOSing me for my reads. It's not full OMGUS but it still seems to be mildly OMGUS.

You are not a scum hunting god.

You cannot possibly always be right, and claiming that you are is sheer arrogance. Being less arrogant will greatly benefit Town.

[BTD6_maker]

OH MY GOD IVE BEEN PLAYING THIS GAME SO WRONG I COMPLETELY THOUGHT MY ROLE WAS SOMETHING ELSE LOL HOLD ON I HAVE TO OBVTOWN LOL

You couldn't have been playing as if you were scum all this while as the fact that you do not remember your scumbuddy would give you away. Hence you must have been playing as town. Thus, this is a pretty strong indication that you are either scum or a Mason. You're probably more likely to be scum.

[BTD6_maker]

OH MY GOD IVE BEEN PLAYING THIS GAME SO WRONG I COMPLETELY THOUGHT MY ROLE WAS SOMETHING ELSE LOL HOLD ON I HAVE TO OBVTOWN LOL

You couldn't have been playing as if you were scum all this while as the fact that you do not remember your scumbuddy would give you away. Hence you must have been playing as town. Thus, this is a pretty strong indication that you are either scum or a Mason. You're probably more likely to be scum.

oh dude nice rolefishing tho for real tho

VOTE: BTD6

I am not asking anyone to claim. I am simply acknowledging the possibility of you being Mason. Acknowledging a hypothetical is not rolefishing.

ye now that i know my real role BTD6 is scum and random is town. ranger is also town, and im going to have to evaluate others. Karnos feels scum as well

By real role do you mean you actually misread or forgot your Role PM and mistook your role for a different one?

[BTD6_maker]

no when I was in my scum perspective before I looked back at my role, Ranger seemed pretty obvtown. I agree moreso with his reads here

because now I know I'm actually scum

, and that when I was in my scum mindset, he was scumreading me. His reads are correct this game, and I like them. He's town af dude lol.

BTD6 is not town tho

Are you claiming a scum here?

[BTD6_maker]

I am pretty sure that my 270 was because I was ninjaed by Ranger. I had another tab open and for some reason the ninja didn't register.

It's obvious that KillTheStory intended to say Town by now but then I considered it to be a genuine Freudian slip.

KillTheStory, if you were previously playing as scum, did you even have any idea who your scumbuddy was?

[BTD6_maker]

I got my Kasumeat read as he was self-voting, which I thought scum are much more likely to do. He is still a weak scum lean of mine, but by now it's pretty much nullscum.

If KilllTheStory is not a Mason, the real Masons do not need to counterclaim. Simply wait for one of Ranger or Kop to counterclaim. They have not got a chance to post since then. In any case, if KillTheStory is scum, he will be lynched today without Masons outing.

[BTD6_maker]

To whoever asked me why I unvoted Karnos and voted ranger, it was because he had not been online since I replaced in and I did not want to leave my vote there until he came online. I still don't really like his posts, even though I only skimmed the last three pages.

VOTE: BTD6_maker

I am still waiting for you to explain the Kasu read step by step, because your stance on him was awkward, to say the least.

And your reads list was questionable, to say the least.

I will re read the last pages better when I have the time.

In what way is my reads list questionable? Again, it differs from yours. I have a different perspective. I could certainly have been scumreading you or the Masons but at that stage there was no indication of who was and was not Mason. Having inaccurate early reads does not imply that anyone is scum.

Also, in Newbie 1700 RadiantCowbells refused to unvote himself in Day 2. That is my only past MS.net experience so that is why I was using it. Of course, I may be wrong as I only have one sample.

[BTD6_maker]

To whoever asked me why I unvoted Karnos and voted ranger, it was because he had not been online since I replaced in and I did not want to leave my vote there until he came online. I still don't really like his posts, even though I only skimmed the last three pages.

VOTE: BTD6_maker

I am still waiting for you to explain the Kasu read step by step, because your stance on him was awkward, to say the least.

And your reads list was questionable, to say the least.

I will re read the last pages better when I have the time.

In what way is my reads list questionable? Again, it differs from yours. I have a different perspective. I could certainly have been scumreading you or the Masons but at that stage there was no indication of who was and was not Mason. Having inaccurate early reads does not imply that anyone is scum.

Also, in Newbie 1700 RadiantCowbells refused to unvote himself in Day 2. That is my only past MS.net experience so that is why I was using it. Of course, I may be wrong as I only have one sample.

That was a different situation, when someone self votes and it's not an hammer, you have to look only at one thing: is that a frustated townie or scum faking frustation? I don't think Kasu unvoting himself is indicative.

But if that's your experience here, I guess it could make sense.

Regarding your read list, I don't like that you had Ranger as null, I think she has done enough to warrant a read.

Do you have me as scum because you think I am Kasu's scumbuddy or are there other reasons?

I am also interested to hear why you have Random as Town.

Ranger was null as despite her having contributed a lot, I pretty much found her equally Towny and scummy.

I had weak reads so I did not think it was that likely that I would have both scum of a team in my scumreads. For you it was mainly a weak gut lean. Same with Randomidget.

[BTD6_maker]

The question you quoted was obviously rhetoric and was I supposed to say that it was a good post when it was not?

You were flat-out saying the post was bad. This you admit. You also were flat-out defending him. This is from the post itself where you ask what about it is scummy in spite of acknowledging it was a bad post. This is "trying to have your cake and eat it, too".

As for the whole mason claim: the correct play here is for me to neither verify nor contradict Killthestory's claim, for obvious reasons.

Surely if you are VT you should say so, exposing a scum. What are these obvious reasons?

[BTD6_maker]

I see 2 most likely situations here, and KDS is town in both of them. Don't ask for claims and vote for someone else today.

What are these situations? It's fairly obvious now that he is either scum or Mason. If you don't want to lynch a Mason, let them claim when they are at L-1 and about to get lynched. Either way, until this entire business is sorted out (without exposing anyone other than those three) my vote stands.

[BTD6_maker]

4. Fakeclaiming scum (possibly pretending to be 2 or 3)

Without confirmation, I'm not convinced. If he is a Mason, why lie about the others? Surely it would suffice to say "I am a Mason" without specifically naming two non-Masons. In fact, if he does this, chances are 13/18 that he has called a scum a Mason.

We should probably wagon KTS. If he really is a Mason, surely Ranger and Kop will support him at L-1. Also, if he is scum, consider the possibility that neither Ranger nor Kop are his partner.

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: BTD
At this point I believe KTS' claim (about himself, at least) so I'm going with my strongest scumread that's on his list too.

Just because you believe KTS doesn't mean that his reads are right. Any given person almost certainly does not have exactly correct reads.
I personally think that KTS has somehow convinced most people that he is Town, even if he is fakeclaiming. He could easily be scum claiming a gambiting VT if he is counter claimed. It is also possible that he and Ranger are scumpartners and are relying on Kop's inactivity in the hope of not getting counterclaimed. Keep an open mind about KTS.

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: BTD
At this point I believe KTS' claim (about himself, at least) so I'm going with my strongest scumread that's on his list too.

Just because you believe KTS doesn't mean that his reads are right. Any given person almost certainly does not have exactly correct reads.
I personally think that KTS has somehow convinced most people that he is Town, even if he is fakeclaiming. He could easily be scum claiming a gambiting VT if he is counter claimed. It is also possible that he and Ranger are scumpartners and are relying on Kop's inactivity in the hope of not getting counterclaimed. Keep an open mind about KTS.

What you're saying is theoretically possible, but we should have a counterclaim emerge when somebody is L-1 if he's faking. The scum KTS/Ranger gamble is extremely unlikely given how bad a coutnerclaim would hurt both of them.

If he's telling the truth, and I do believe that's more likely, he's correct in that sheeping the masons is a pretty good idea unless we have a really strong read otherwise. Considering that 2 of them are currently voting for me, I don't have much choice other than to go with my strongest scumread that the masons might also consider lynching. I would personally rather lynch Masq than you, but they haven't indicated they'd consider that option.

If he is faking with Ranger then upon a counterclaim he will just claim gambiting VT and Ranger will keep quiet. (Ranger hasn't confirmed KTS so she won't be as badly affected and will seem VT).

Moderate town: Creature, Masquerade
Weak town: Karnos, Charloux, Randomidget
Weak scum: Ozymandias
Moderate scum: Kasumeat, Javajoe

VOTE: Javajoe
He is slightly more scummy than Kasumeat in my opinion.

[BTD6_maker]

I am only lynching kts if he gets cced and I do not want any mason coming out Day 1 ergo I'm not voting kts today unless there is an idiot mason.

Again, no Mason needs to come out. If Kop (or Ranger) claims VT then we know that KTS was lying.

Here's a question that should settle the matter:
Ranger, are the Masons you, KTS, and Kop? (If you choose not to answer say why)

If you say yes, nothing much has been revealed as KTS had already outed the Masons.
If you say no, that proves nothing about you. You could still be either a VT or a Mason and so could Kop. No one is hardclaiming here.
If you do not want to answer, a reason would help (without giving away the answer)

[BTD6_maker]

And that makes the mason pool smaller. Nobody cc TODAY.

I don't see how Ranger's answer would make the Mason pool smaller. If she says no, KTS may or may not be a Mason, Ranger may or may not be a Mason, and Kop may or may not be a Mason. No one will be confirmed Mason or non-Mason.

[BTD6_maker]

Purely to confirm whether KTS's claim is worth listening to. Everyone actively does not want him to be lynched, despite no one wanting to confirm his claim or counterclaim. We should probably play as if KTS had never claimed, which means at least considering the three as potential scum.

[BTD6_maker]

Purely to confirm whether KTS's claim is worth listening to. Everyone actively does not want him to be lynched, despite no one wanting to confirm his claim or counterclaim. We should probably play as if KTS had never claimed, which means at least considering the three as potential scum.

Why are you rolefishing? It answers questions in regards to the claim, but you are actively saying I don't want the masons to claim, but would like them to back KTS claim up. Which is it?

If Ranger (or you, you can answer as well) says yes, this has just confirmed what KTS has outed. If Ranger says no, no one's role has been revealed.

Of course, Ranger can refuse to answer, which is what I think you are suggesting. I am not intending to rolefish here.

In that case, why are people suggesting that no one should vote for or lynch KTS? If we are ignoring Masons, we should act as though KTS never claimed, in which case he's as valid a lynch as anyone else. In that case, ignore his claim completely.

[BTD6_maker]

BTD6 you are being sooooo scummy right now.
Kop, any other comments on the game?

I'm not sure how that's scummy. I am not trying to force a rolefish. What I am saying is that if we establish that no one should counterclaim then anyone could have claimed without it meaning anything. KTS's claim means nothing now if Town are just going to accept it as is.

[BTD6_maker]

That is my point. If we don't need the information for fear of giving it to scum, why should we act as though KTS is unlynchable? In this case, we should not claim but also not consider KTS's claim to have any worth.

You have said two things which together I find to be incompatible:
1: No one should counterclaim
2: If no one counterclaims, KTS must not be lynched
Essentially, you are implying that KTS should not be lynched no matter what. In that case, there is no basis at all for believing KTS's claim. You can't say that "no one counterclaimed so KTS is truthful" if Town generally told everyone not to counterclaim.

Also, this is the second game in a row in which I have pointed out a logical flaw/possibility and people have accused me of rolefishing.

[BTD6_maker]

Either way, today we should ignore KTS's claim. If anyone would have voted KTS (or the other two) had it not been for his claim, you should probably be voting them. His claim has no meaning until someone flips. It is best not to stop people from voting him, Ranger, or Kop as it is (at least for today) just as if he never claimed at all. It would also help if he was more active so I could read him better.

[BTD6_maker]

Realistically, though, we should assume that KTS is as likely as random to be a Mason. Wagoning any random person to L-1 is as likely to cause a Mason claim as wagoning KTS. If the claim cannot be tested, anyone of any alignment could claim without consequences. If they are found later to be fakeclaiming, they can just claim gambiting VT.

Deciding already that someone should not be lynched is essentially assuming that they are conftown (until further flips show otherwise). Assuming someone is conftown is one of the worst mistakes Town could make.

It is worth noting that in 307 KTS explicitly denied that Kop was a Mason. That would probably affect the level of trust you can ascribe to his claim.

Ranger, is there any reason why you are voting for me? If you had read my later posts you would have known that in hindsight I decided it's best for you not to answer. That was just there if you wanted to answer so I would have been fine with no answer.

[BTD6_maker]

To reiterate, if we L-1 a mason KTS and force another mason to claim to protect him, we basically have about a 50% chance of having both him and his masonbuddy NKed in the first night, which would be extremely bad. If there's uncertainly about who the masons are, we're in much better shape.

Essentially, the exact same happens if we L-1 a Mason Creature, Kop, Masquerade, Kasumeat, Javajoe, Ranger, Karnos, me, Ozymandias, Randomidget, or Charloux. If you really want uncertainty, just assume that there is a 25% chance that KTS (or everyone else) is Mason. There is no point in purposefully deciding not to L-1 KTS but placing someone else at L-1. They are equally likely to be Mason.

[BTD6_maker]

Ranger, are the Masons you, KTS, and Kop? (If you choose not to answer say why)

Here's my answer for you.
VOTE: BTD6.
Kasumeat and Ozymandias are still scum, though.

Explain why because I don't agree with either. Kasumeat I can maybe see but Ozy I've been liking lately.

@BTD6: We're not agreeing to never ever lynch Kts. We're agreeing to not lynch Kts

today

. You're being voted because you keep fishing for a counterclaim or confirmation. What's your mafia-experience before you joined MS?

but yeah im the greatest to ever play this game, so please stop denying it

You really aren't. Because if you were you wouldn't have had to claim already AND out your hypothetical mason-buddies.
But you do have a point regarding BTD6.

I'm not trying to force anyone to claim, at least not now. I may have made a mistake before, but now no claim is needed.

At this stage KTS is no more likely to be Mason than, say, Creature. We should also agree not to lynch Creature today. Likewise, today we should not lynch Kop, Masquerade, Kasumeat etc. in which case the only option is to No Lynch today and wait for flips.

[BTD6_maker]

Also, don't like karnoskeeping the vote on kts after his claim.

The claim meant nothing. If you don't like a vote on KTS, you might as well not like a vote on anyone, in case Masons are outed. You should really be voting No Lynch here.

VOTE: No Lynch

[BTD6_maker]

I was trying to make a point by taking Town's arguments to their logical conclusion. It seems that Town does not want to lynch KTS today in case he is Mason. Logically, anyone can be Mason. If it is known that Town do not want any counterclaims then anyone can claim without consequence. Note that KTS had hardclaimed that Kop is not a Mason, and later reversed it. A Townie can be suspicious of his claim without it being a scumtell. I was trying to expose Town's bad logic.

That said, Javajoe is my strongest scumread and some pressure on him would help. VOTE: Javajoe L-3

Why do people still repeatedly accuse me of rolefishing after I explicitly said in many posts that I

don't

want a claim?

[BTD6_maker]

I never said I wanted a No Lynch. I said that Town would want a No Lynch given the points they are making.

This seems just like what happened last game, when I outed my copread after reading him for inactivity and not voting. Town will move on.

[BTD6_maker]

Ranger and Kop confirm your masons. Me or Ranger is dying tonight, so it doesn't matter.

Anyway, stop fucking talking about the possibilities.

Java wagon is trash because BTD is on it. Otherwise, I find the other players acceptable. BTD is still scummy as shit, and he's getting away with it. I don't care if you think he's a VI. Intelligence isn't in relativity to alignment, so stop pushing it like you are. What's really relevant here is what BTD is pushing.

He was,pushing I'm not Mason. Idiotic. He was pushing a no lynch. Idiotic and scummy. D1 Lynches will always be superior to no lynches. He then, 3 hours after pushing for a no lynch, pushes Java, an easy target. If that's not a scum mindset I don't know what is.

Firstly, there is nothing wrong at all with being suspicious of a claim, especially one with zero evidence.

Secondly, you clearly did not read my posts. I was not saying that a No Lynch is better than a D1 lynch. My point was that the Town logic was flawed by showing that according to the Town logic, No Lynch was the best option.

Thirdly, if you were actually reading, I had voted for Javajoe before this and had scumread him.

[BTD6_maker]

Moderate/strong Town: Masquerade, Randomidget
Weak/moderate Town: Karnos, Creature
Nullish/weak Town: Ranger, Charloux
Nullish/weak scum: Ozymandias, Kop
Weak/moderate scum: KTS, Kasumeat, Javajoe

[BTD6_maker]

My Ozymandias read was very weak and mostly stayed the same from my past read.
My Kasumeat read also didn't change that much.
This was mostly as everyone was pretty much solely about my suspiciousness of the claim. I didn't find anything that strongly scummy or Towny.

[BTD6_maker]

Creature, could you please explain why you think that I'm scum with Charloux? I don't see where you get such reads.

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: BTD6_maker

Do you have any actual reasons for your vote?

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: BTD6_maker

Do you have any actual reasons for your vote?

Yeah, I don't think your town.

Why do you scumread me?

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: BTD6_maker

Do you have any actual reasons for your vote?

Yeah, I don't think your town.

Why do you scumread me?

The manner you handled the claim, and still persisted to push the case. It seemed that you wanted the other masons to come out and back it up, something town don't want, especially on day one.

You must have misread me. What I said was that I will not believe the claim without evidence. There is nothing wrong with that. I was already suspicious of the claim. At that point I also thought that in these circumstances backing or counter claiming doesn't hurt Town in any way, although apparently I was wrong (this is my first game with Masons of any sort). My reasoning was that KTS, Ranger, and Kop were already likely to die regardless of further backing.

If (this is a big IF, I am neither endorsing nor trying to stop a hardclaim) he does, then in this case (he's being wagoned and asked to hardclaim) there is a much lower chance that he is a gambiting VT. In that case one of Javajoe and KTS is lying and therefore probable scum (though with KTS there is a higher possibility of a gambit).

[BTD6_maker]

I believe the mason claim so I would strongly prefer to vote with them. It's just so much safer. I'd be happy with a Java lynch if they choose to move there.

Believing a Mason claim is one thing. Believing that any Mason is invariably correct to the point of blindly sheeping is another, foolhardy thing. If they really are Masons, there is a high chance that they are sheeping each other. In that case it's always best to vote for who you yourself think is scummiest and not who the Masons think is scummiest.

Also,

prodding Kuroi

[BTD6_maker]

I believe the mason claim so I would strongly prefer to vote with them. It's just so much safer. I'd be happy with a Java lynch if they choose to move there.

Believing a Mason claim is one thing. Believing that any Mason is invariably correct to the point of blindly sheeping is another, foolhardy thing. If they really are Masons, there is a high chance that they are sheeping each other. In that case it's always best to vote for who you yourself think is scummiest and not who the Masons think is scummiest.

Also,

prodding Kuroi

I'm not blindly sheeping them, you're scummy as fuck

I just got that impression from your post, in which case I may have misunderstood it. What I thought you were saying was along the lines of "I'll vote for whoever the Masons vote for".

[BTD6_maker]

As far as I know, Javajoe needs a prod now.

[BTD6_maker]

I think KTS is also due for a prod at this stage.

[BTD6_maker]

dont think BTD bussed him, BTD seemed to jump on him to get out of his own lynch which implies their opposite alignments.

Think it's plausible someone else bussed him, or that his teammate is on BTD wagon

I actually voted Javajoe when my wagon had only one vote on it. I did not have much pressure back then.

[BTD6_maker]

well i think im forced to believe hes genuine since ya know

hes my mason bud and all

Who's genuine? Ranger? You said "he".

If you meant Kasumeat, why do you keep on changing your story?

Also, Ranger, please explain why you think I'm "obviously scum".

[BTD6_maker]

I can see where ranger is coming from
Hammers get more attention, town aren't generally bothered about that attention because they can prove there towniness and gain trust, scum don't want attention because they are lying and whilst being under pressure due to the unwanted attention, caused by a hammer does lead to contradictions, slips etc.

The very fact that you've pointed it out means that scum will do it to reduce suspicion.

It's her fucking smug arrogance as she plays like complete fucking dogshit

I've noticed some of this arrogance. Like

thinking she can call out all four scum on Day 1

.

[BTD6_maker]

Is this Night Skip for N1 or N2? If N2, do Mafia No Kill?

[BTD6_maker]

Kuroi, please link to all of the private threads.

[BTD6_maker]

Only now i figured out it's Dr. House. I feel so stupid now
Put me in the list of players!

Sure. I'll put you in as a pre-in!

Kuroi, please link to all of the private threads.

They've all been made public.

It's fine. I've found them now.

[BTD6_maker]

I've /Inned to both Kuroi and Masquerade's game and Ranger's game.