Open 638: Friends and Enemies! (And Enemies!) - GAME OVER!

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: Kasumeat
I've got this guy read perfectly

[Kasumeat]

I am also new, this is my 3rd game, 2nd on this site.

[Kasumeat]

now we wait for someone to be scummy as fuck

And with that remark, the room goes silent

[Kasumeat]

Or maybe I spoke too soon

[Kasumeat]

But your post was the one that discouraged everyone from posting by making it look like you were spoiling for a fight

[Kasumeat]

I'm also confused by that but maybe that's its sole purpose?

[Kasumeat]

That list, that is.

[Kasumeat]

Ah OK that makes sense. I can see why the reads on KTS and Karnos.

[Kasumeat]

How long till we replace the absentees?

[Kasumeat]

My meta is odd. I am read as scum when I am town, and town when I am scum. Every. Single. Game.

So in others words, you're town who is going to play scummy, or you're scum?

[Kasumeat]

so basically random wants to policy me because im annoying and pretentious? did you forget how great my reads were?

also, Karnos, Random wasn't spreading false information, someone unvoted before they said that and claimed they didn't like the L-1.

Any reads so far?

[Kasumeat]

I mean what are your reads on people so far?

[Kasumeat]

My meta is odd. I am read as scum when I am town, and town when I am scum. Every. Single. Game.

So in others words, you're town who is going to play scummy, or you're scum?

Not scum, and not playing scummy intentionally, but stuff happens and I am a lot less careful what I say as town so I come off as more scummy.

Right now you're practically arguing for a policy lynch against yourself, saying you're either a scummy town player or scum. It's nullish for me, since you could either be a town saying "please don't lynch me for my dumb posts I often make such as the one I am currently making" or you could be scum trying to cover your ass too. Either way it's really dumb and anti-town.

[Kasumeat]

I'm also suspicious of KTS right now for the same reasons, but that readlist by Ranger with the Moderator in it is super sketchy. I've never that specific slip before, but it smacks of "I'm not really thinking about these reads, I'm constructing them" which is scummy as fuck. Every time I've seen players give reads on dead players, it's been a scumslip.

VOTE: Ranger

[Kasumeat]

EBWOP: never SEEN that slip before

[Kasumeat]

I'm also suspicious of KTS right now for the same reasons, but that readlist by Ranger with the Moderator in it is super sketchy. I've never that specific slip before, but it smacks of "I'm not really thinking about these reads, I'm constructing them" which is scummy as fuck. Every time I've seen players give reads on dead players, it's been a scumslip.

VOTE: Ranger

I personally find it more like a confused Town. I know this because in my last game (Newbie 1700) I actually said that a dead player (Karnos) should claim. Needless to say, I was quite confused but it didn't matter as a Cop claim by someone else actually won us the game.

Scum are way more likely to make that mistake about a moderator though. Think about the process one goes through when making a reads list. If you're town, you know nothing, so you have to look at each player and actually spend some time thinking about what they've said and come to a conclusion. When you have to think about each player, you're extremely unlikely to make that mistake.

If you're scum however, you post a read list with a goal in mind. You're not thinking about who's scum and who isn't. You don't have to take a good look at every poster, you're just focused on the town posters who you want to implicate and your buddies you want to bus or protect. Putting a mod on your reads list is a much easier mistake to make in this case.

[Kasumeat]

I am thinking Ranger did this intentionally.

Uh, what?

[Kasumeat]

Please explain, because that doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.

[Kasumeat]

Do you at least know what post I am talking about?

Yes. Please explain why Ranger might intentionally make that mistake, because I can't come up with any plausible explanations.

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: kasumeat

I like this vote simply because it appears he isn't reading the thread in great deal like town would.

lol at this vote right after I make the first real effortpost of the game and then Creature follows it up with "oops, I didn't read the thread properly"

Can you please point out a single post where it indicates I haven't been reading? Reading less than Ranger who just posted a read on the moderator?

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: kasumeat

I like this vote simply because it appears he isn't reading the thread in great deal like town would.

I kinda think that is part of the reason though.

Masq, I am really struggling to see how you reach your conclusion based on his post. Not only does he explicitly say it's the only reason, Kop has posted literally NOTHING other than this and an RV in this thread.

[Kasumeat]

If it's obvious that his vote is ridiculous, then your defensive is really strange. I mean if it's obvious then you don't have to defend at all.
-1 town points for you

Eh I guess. I got defensive because it felt like Masq was ready to jump on.

[Kasumeat]

I am seeing Ranger as town. I believe she usually makes not-so-well-thought gut reads. The Kuroi read seems weird, but I don't see scum motivation behind it.

There isn't motivation behind mistakes.

[Kasumeat]

@Kasumeat: Not scum motivation does not equal town motivation. You just completely destroyed your own point on Ranger.

VOTE: Kasumeat

I have no idea what you're trying to say with this sentence but it doesn't make sense. Let me explain again what I said to Creature.

Creature says that he doesn't see the motivation for Ranger to make that mistake. This doesn't make any sense. Mistakes don't have motivation, they happen

despite

motivation. What I'm saying isn't contradictory at all.

[Kasumeat]

Ranger, I can see how you could mistake that uncoloured post for a non-mod post. (

128 is not in mod-colour either

) But what doesn't make sense is that you wouldn't read the rest of his many posts before posting your read. And now you're scum-reading me because I cased you on what many people agree is a very suspicious post of yours. That should be increasing my town cred in your eyes, not decreasing it.

[Kasumeat]

The buddying between Creature and Ranger was just so hard and came out of nowhere and it was Creature defending a post which even Ranger admitted was stupid as fuck. I suppose it's possible they're masons but I cannot possibly believe they're both VT.

[Kasumeat]

"Buddying really fucking hard is not scummy at all, so don't vote me. Also, vote Kasu and Ozy because Ozy is buddying him." — Ranger 2016

[Kasumeat]

Java.

[Kasumeat]

This is my second game on this site.

[Kasumeat]

Plus one on another site.

[Kasumeat]

The buddying between Creature and Ranger is that creature tried to play off Ranger's mistake as intentional, which she admitted was not the case. Creature then voted me to protect Ranger. The obvious VT/mason thing to do in that situation is saying "that's a pretty stupid mistake Ranger made, I can see how you could see it's scummy, but I think it's just a mistake" but instead Creature resorted to outright denying it was a mistake and going on the offensive against me. It's classic Chainsaw: when you have no reasonable way of defending, lie and go after the person making the case.

Night or day talk does not matter, scum has no reason to speculate about masons in the game thread one day into D1.

AH but it's different in multiball setup! Not to mention town gains nothing from speculating who the masons are; it only benefits mafia and werewolves.

This is true and it was dumb of me to mention it. But I'm struggling to come up with another reason for Creature to buddy her so hard so I considered that possibility. My scum-read on Ranger and Creature is very strong right now so I can't think of another non-scum explanation.

[Kasumeat]

When you mislynch me, FFS take a good look at Ranger And Her Legendary Reads.

[Kasumeat]

I just wanna point out how fucking obviously I would've moved off of Ranger after she explained her mistake with the mod colours if I was scum. It's fucking retarded for scum to make a stand so zealously on D1, but very much worth dying as a VT (which I am) to take out her and her scumbuddy.

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: Kasumeat

[Kasumeat]

That's L-1

[Kasumeat]

[/unvote]Kasumeat[/unvote]
VOTE: Ranger

[Kasumeat]

Kasumeat: if you are town, please unvote. Give your top reads. If you are scum, carry on get lynched.

I've already explained my Ranger scumread, but I'll reiterate. Ranger admitted her own mistake with the read list. And while I do believe her reason she gave for why she made the mistake, I think it's a mistake that scum are more likely to make than town. Also, there's the fact that she's supposedly this savant-like scumreader and she's wrong as fuck about me but still maintains her stance. I expect better of The Legendary Ranger. The one thing that gives me a shred of doubt about her is that she might just be a spiteful and petty town like I, admittedly, have been this game too. But unlike her, I'll admit that my mistakes are a reasonable reason to vote me. I don't think the wagon against me is necessarily scum-driven.

Kop is also scummy as fuck. His entire posting history, 3 days into this game, is one RV plus one vote on me with the sole justification being that I wasn't reading carefully,

immediately after Creature just admitted that he didn't read the thread carefully.

And after that, Creature defended Kop's vote by saying that Kop had other reasons to vote for me when Kop's #104 explicitly states that it was the sole reason. If that isn't buddying, I don't know what is. This hasn't been a low-content game so the only reason to be lurking that hard is if you're scum with no pressure on you.

[Kasumeat]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p7920414]
Excuse me, I didn't defend Kop's vote.[/quote]

Oh fuck that was Masq, my mistake.

[Kasumeat]

Oh, whoops, that was meant to have a readslist.

{randomidget}
{Creature, Kop}
{Charloux, karnos, BTD6, Javajoe}
{Killthestory}
{Masquerade, Kasumeat}

I'm thinking, but in the meantime, sure. Why did you speak for Kop and defend his vote against me?

[Kasumeat]

Oops, didn't mean to quote that. The above post is directed at Masq.

[Kasumeat]

{randomidget}
{Creature, Kop}
{Javajoe}
{Charloux, karnos}
{Killthestory}
{BTD6, Masquerade, Kasumeat}
Three.

First, having posted LITERALLY NOTHING other than a single RV, Kop is somehow the second-most town player in the game according to Ranger.

VOTE: kasumeat

I like this vote simply because it appears he isn't reading the thread in great deal like town would.

Now we have this really stupid vote from Kop, his only other post of the game...

Oh, whoops, that was meant to have a readslist.

{randomidget}
{Creature, Kop}
{Charloux, karnos, BTD6, Javajoe}
{Killthestory}
{Masquerade, Kasumeat}

... yet somehow this hasn't hurt Kop's towncred according to Ranger.

{randomidget, Kop}
{Creature}
{Charloux, karnos, BTD6, Javajoe}
{Killthestory}
{Masquerade}
{Kasumeat}

Mod: I moved my vote to Masquerade, but I'm still listed on the Killthestory wagon.

Though,
VOTE: Kasumeat.
Masquerade's no townread, but his 117 puts him a tier above Kasumeat. (They were otherwise equal in scumminess until that point.)

And now, Kop having posted absolutely nothing since then, Ranger now has Kop as super-town.

Ranger's reads are fake as fuck and she is scummy as fuck.

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: kasumeat

I like this vote simply because it appears he isn't reading the thread in great deal like town would.

Kop didn't say you weren't reading.

Yeah, that's a poor vote kop. His push on Joe would be a better reason

I kinda think that is part of the reason though.

Here is Masq "not defending" Kop's vote.

I'm thinking, but in the meantime, sure. Why did you speak for Kop and defend his vote against me?

I didn't defend his vote. I agreed with his point against you. I don''t get why it is so hard for people to differentiate between the 2. I also explained what I thought i saw and asked Kop whether I was close to what he saw. Other than that it means nothing, because even though he has a point on you that i agree with, the 2 of you can potentially be opposing scum.
This is multiball, it;s a little different.

No, you didn't agree with his point against me. His point against me was that I wasn't reading the thread carefully. You didn't state that you agreed with that, but rather you said he voted me because of my push on Joe. You are blatantly lying right now.

[Kasumeat]

Also, Ranger has played with Kop before, I have played with Kop before, maybe you should start listening and just accept that the inactivity is not alignment indicative for Kop.

So I just stated that I'm reading Kop and Ranger as scummy, and now you're telling me "trust me and Ranger, Kop isn't scummy." There's a bit of a problem with your argument here. And it's not just the inactivity, it's trying to push a case against me for a blatantly nonsense reason.

[Kasumeat]

Weak town: Creature, Masquerade, Randomidget
Null: Javajoe, Ranger, Karnos, Charloux,

Kuroi <3

Weak scum: KillTheStory, Kasumeat, Ozymandias

My reads are fairly weak as of now.

VOTE: KillTheStory

And Kop?

[Kasumeat]

kop isnt scummy. this is literally him. i see why ranger is townreading him because Kop always plays like this. his content here just seems to make the slightest more sense

If he always plays like this, how the fuck is his play towny?

And can you please explain why you think Ranger in conftown?

[Kasumeat]

Kop's play is towny because I'm willing to bet that even if I haven't played with scum!Kop, his play would be even more garbage if he were scum. Here, he actually seems to make the slightest sense.

This doesn't make any sense. His play has been garbage. It's been one post, and a very bad one at that. I could buy a null read on him at this point, but town makes absolutely no sense.

[Kasumeat]

I have given backing on each read I have been asked about. That's literally the opposite of faked.

Please explain how Kop is your strongest town-read in the game and how he came to be so while not posting.

[Kasumeat]

Your read on him changed between your list on 123 and your list on 130. Kop's last post was 104, and I didn't post between 123 and 130. Your lists are incredibly fake and you're scummy as fuck.

[Kasumeat]

k its obvious but im mason so sh and lynch btd6 tyvm

Well then.
UNVOTE: Ranger

[Kasumeat]

Interesting claim from KTS. Hopefully those who can confirm/deny note it and take appropriate action without revealing themselves.

It's a mason claim. In this setup, it's confirmed by nobody counter-claiming.

[Kasumeat]

So then both claimers get lynched and you've traded a scum for a mason which is a bad trade for the scum.

[Kasumeat]

I guess it makes sense for the masons to do what you're saying until closer to the deadline since there isn't anything to lose in doing so. This is my first mason game, forgive my slowness.

[Kasumeat]

Yeah that vote is incredibly mind-boggling.

[Kasumeat]

My only hesitation to vote Karnos here is that that post is equally unfathomably stupid for both scum and for town to make.

[Kasumeat]

Then it's scum trying to look like a bad town.

That's one hell of a gambit: huge risk of a lynch just in order to gain some incredibly sketchy town-cred.

[Kasumeat]

That's a very unlikely play for newb scum to make, no?

[Kasumeat]

Thiiiiis game

[Kasumeat]

I want everyone's readlists as of right now. I need to see where everyone stands as of right now. If anything, at least post your top 3 scum

Don't actually do this, this is exactly what a fakeclaiming mason would post before being outed. We can discuss our reads in a bit, but give everyone a chance to respond since the claim before giving away too much info. There's no need to rush the game.

[Kasumeat]

youre honestly one of the worst players ive ever been graced with playing with.

GOD WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE DOING IM OBVIOUSLY MASON LOOK AT MY POSTS AND RANGERS. WEVE BEEN HARD DEFENDING KOP ALL GAME, BUT RANGER WANTED TO DISTANCE HIMSELF FROM ME BUT I HAD TO HARD DEFEND HIM LIKE WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE DOING?

I understand that and still believe your claim, but there's no reason to panic like you're doing right now

[Kasumeat]

Intentionally or not, you're playing exactly how a fakeclaiming scum would play in your spot

[Kasumeat]

So, should everybody check in and say they don't counterclaim?

That is the same as handing the scum a list of masons to kill, if every VT & scum check in with a "no counterclaim".

Only one mason needs to counter claim. Alternatively, kop or ranger could claim non-mason, though it wouldn't shock me if one of them (ranger probably) is actually a scum partner willing to go along with the charade.

KTS already DID hand them that list, real or not.

And I think you're suggesting that a scumbuddy Ranger might claim Mason too, which would also be incredibly stupid because then a single counterclaim by the real Masons would kill both scum.

[Kasumeat]

Town Mason - Killthestory
Town Mason - Ranger
Town Mason - Kop
Vanilla Town - Creature
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town

Let's close this list then we can PoE.

I forgot my role so I'm not sure where I go on this list

[Kasumeat]

Well, do you want to be mafia or werewolf?

Hell yes

[Kasumeat]

Well, do you want to be mafia or werewolf?

Hell yes

Which one?

Either is good, this game is looking easy either way

[Kasumeat]

So then both claimers get lynched and you've traded a scum for a mason which is a bad trade for the scum.

In a normal game, sure. In this game, one scum faction comes out clearly ahead in such an exchange.

Maybe it's still overall good for town, but it's even better for town if the 3 masons can drive a lynch into KTS without directly coming out, isn't it?

Whatever, just forget I brought it up. I think most likely KTS is indeed what he says he is.
-----------------------------

Back to scum hunting, I'm truly puzzled at the "kop is town" reads. Hiding so much is more often than not a scum tactic. And if kop does it every game, that certainly isn't indicative of him being town, it's just a null indication. So far ranger and KTS are the two pushing the idea that kop is obvious town...

Between the two, I trust ranger a bit less, especially given the recent discussion on KTS' role. Gotta put my vote where my mouth is-

VOTE: ranger

Obviously subject to change if anything comes out against KTS.

So I've thought about this some more, and contrary to what I said earlier, Karnos is looking somewhat scummy to me rather than VI. I neglected the obvious benefit to Karnos' post which is forcing all the masons to claim. There is still a strong element of "this is too scummy to be scum" which in my limited experience is actually true, so consider him a scum-lean for me.

[Kasumeat]

So how do you know how a fakeclaiming scum plays?

Because it happened in my first game on this site: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=65937
It's an ongoing game though so I can't elaborate further.

[Kasumeat]

So then both claimers get lynched and you've traded a scum for a mason which is a bad trade for the scum.

In a normal game, sure. In this game, one scum faction comes out clearly ahead in such an exchange.

Maybe it's still overall good for town, but it's even better for town if the 3 masons can drive a lynch into KTS without directly coming out, isn't it?

Whatever, just forget I brought it up. I think most likely KTS is indeed what he says he is.
-----------------------------

Back to scum hunting, I'm truly puzzled at the "kop is town" reads. Hiding so much is more often than not a scum tactic. And if kop does it every game, that certainly isn't indicative of him being town, it's just a null indication. So far ranger and KTS are the two pushing the idea that kop is obvious town...

Between the two, I trust ranger a bit less, especially given the recent discussion on KTS' role. Gotta put my vote where my mouth is-

VOTE: ranger

Obviously subject to change if anything comes out against KTS.

So I've thought about this some more, and contrary to what I said earlier, Karnos is looking somewhat scummy to me rather than VI. I neglected the obvious benefit to Karnos' post which is forcing all the masons to claim. There is still a strong element of "this is too scummy to be scum" which in my limited experience is actually true, so consider him a scum-lean for me.

EBWOP: That is to say, slight lean rather than strong read.

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: BTD
At this point I believe KTS' claim (about himself, at least) so I'm going with my strongest scumread that's on his list too.

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: BTD
At this point I believe KTS' claim (about himself, at least) so I'm going with my strongest scumread that's on his list too.

Just because you believe KTS doesn't mean that his reads are right. Any given person almost certainly does not have exactly correct reads.
I personally think that KTS has somehow convinced most people that he is Town, even if he is fakeclaiming. He could easily be scum claiming a gambiting VT if he is counter claimed. It is also possible that he and Ranger are scumpartners and are relying on Kop's inactivity in the hope of not getting counterclaimed. Keep an open mind about KTS.

What you're saying is theoretically possible, but we should have a counterclaim emerge when somebody is L-1 if he's faking. The scum KTS/Ranger gamble is extremely unlikely given how bad a coutnerclaim would hurt both of them.

If he's telling the truth, and I do believe that's more likely, he's correct in that sheeping the masons is a pretty good idea unless we have a really strong read otherwise. Considering that 2 of them are currently voting for me, I don't have much choice other than to go with my strongest scumread that the masons might also consider lynching. I would personally rather lynch Masq than you, but they haven't indicated they'd consider that option.

[Kasumeat]

That is my point. If we don't need the information for fear of giving it to scum, why should we act as though KTS is unlynchable? In this case, we should not claim but also not consider KTS's claim to have any worth.

You have said two things which together I find to be incompatible:
1: No one should counterclaim
2: If no one counterclaims, KTS must not be lynched
Essentially, you are implying that KTS should not be lynched no matter what. In that case, there is no basis at all for believing KTS's claim. You can't say that "no one counterclaimed so KTS is truthful" if Town generally told everyone not to counterclaim.

Also, this is the second game in a row in which I have pointed out a logical flaw/possibility and people have accused me of rolefishing.

If we L-1 a mason KTS, we force another mason to claim to protect him. If he's a mason who is lying about his masonbuddies, which he very well might be, that would be bad since we just gave scum more info. Outing masons is particularly bad in multiball format since it protects both scum factions.

If he's gambiting scum and we L-1 him, we get a scumkill without revealing any masons. But the masons might choose to CC anyways if we L-1 someone else, in which case we can lynch KTS immediately.

When you weigh the risks and rewards, I just don't see enough value in threatening a lynch on KTS.

[Kasumeat]

To reiterate, if we L-1 a mason KTS and force another mason to claim to protect him, we basically have about a 50% chance of having both him and his masonbuddy NKed in the first night, which would be extremely bad. If there's uncertainly about who the masons are, we're in much better shape.

[Kasumeat]

hold off on posts have to do something

Has this thing happened yet?

[Kasumeat]

Seriously, it's like BTD is seeing how many times you can double down on scumminess before it somehow becomes town.

I wouldn't hate a Joe lynch at all, but still think it's better that we sheep the masons.

[Kasumeat]

That's L-2 on Java

[Kasumeat]

Er L-3 I can't count

[Kasumeat]

KTS/Ranger/Kop scumteam confirmed /sarcasm

[Kasumeat]

Karnos, KTS could still potentially be lying to protect the other masons. As has already been pointed out, knowing who the masons are is a lot more valuable to scum than to town. Yes this could create problems by having Ranger and Kop considered confirmed town when they're not, but we're not going to lose all three in one night. If 2 of 3 die tonight, the living mason can correct us if necessary.

Could you please fucking drop this. Maybe you're just an incomprehsibly horrible town rather than scum, so if you are, all you're doing is making things worse. Your posts are just mind-bogglingly awful and anti-town. If you hadn't fucking started with your incredibly stupid pushes on Ranger and Kop, KTS wouldn't have outed them. If he's telling the truth, it's your fucking fault they're outed.

[Kasumeat]

Regardless of your role, you're the heavy favourite for scum MVP.

[Kasumeat]

Ranger and Kop confirm your masons. Me or Ranger is dying tonight, so it doesn't matter.

Anyway, stop fucking talking about the possibilities.

Java wagon is trash because BTD is on it. Otherwise, I find the other players acceptable. BTD is still scummy as shit, and he's getting away with it. I don't care if you think he's a VI. Intelligence isn't in relativity to alignment, so stop pushing it like you are. What's really relevant here is what BTD is pushing.

He was,pushing I'm not Mason. Idiotic. He was pushing a no lynch. Idiotic and scummy. D1 Lynches will always be superior to no lynches. He then, 3 hours after pushing for a no lynch, pushes Java, an easy target. If that's not a scum mindset I don't know what is.

Can I just point out that you're not voting BTD

[Kasumeat]

Joe is still better than BTD. He keeps commenting on irrelevant aspects of the game, without actually trying to solve it. Still waiting for your reads, man.

I am having trouble understanding where the VI border ends and it becomes scum this game. Not everyone can be a VI here, someone must be dumb scum or scum faking dumb, I guess, otherwise the game is solved.

I agree that Java is scummy too but it's much safer to sheep the masons while they're still alive

[Kasumeat]

It's funny because he says he's a lot less careful to post as town, though, he's posting very little.

This is a good point

[Kasumeat]

Typical. Everybody just takes what they need and disregard everything else without any regard for the mental status of others. I'm through with this game.

I'm sorry you feel this way. Focus on real life if that's what you need to do. You can replace out or go V/LA depending on when you think you'll be ready to play again.

[Kasumeat]

I believe the mason claim so I would strongly prefer to vote with them. It's just so much safer. I'd be happy with a Java lynch if they choose to move there.

[Kasumeat]

I believe the mason claim so I would strongly prefer to vote with them. It's just so much safer. I'd be happy with a Java lynch if they choose to move there.

Believing a Mason claim is one thing. Believing that any Mason is invariably correct to the point of blindly sheeping is another, foolhardy thing. If they really are Masons, there is a high chance that they are sheeping each other. In that case it's always best to vote for who you yourself think is scummiest and not who the Masons think is scummiest.

Also,

prodding Kuroi

I'm not blindly sheeping them, you're scummy as fuck

[Kasumeat]

Indeed, my condolences. I sincerely hope it's the last of the IRL drama plaguing people in this game.

[Kasumeat]

I find Karnos hard to read because he's playing equally scummy as BTD but is less experienced so it could just be inexperience, or it could be a ploy to use his inexperience to play anti-town. He's null for me, whereas Charloux's wishy washy play and strange reads make him slightly scummy.

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: Java

this flips town then BTD is next lynch tyvm

L-1. I'm willing to hammer Joe and will do so in the day next or so, so speak now everyone.

[Kasumeat]

Kasumeat's offer to hammer pretty much proves he's scum, btw.

??????

[Kasumeat]

??????

Offering to hammer is a decent scumtell in my experience.
Town players just hammer. They may offer intent if they want a claim (this part does not apply for this game), they may choose not to hammer when they have the opportunity, but they will not

offer

to hammer. They either do, or don't.

It's fucking hilarious how tunnel visioned you are. If I had just hammered without offering, you'd be saying it also proves I'm scum. Your read on me is shit and a petty OMGUS and it could cost us the game because you're basing half your reads in this game on me being confscum. May I remind you that VTs are not 100% certain of who the Masons are so hammering without warning would be incredibly fucking scummy.

[Kasumeat]

Swallow your pride and get over the fact that you made an incredibly bad post I thought it was a scumslip. You're going to look even worse when I flip town.

[Kasumeat]

??????

Offering to hammer is a decent scumtell in my experience.

Does anyone actually fucking believe this

[Kasumeat]

If I had just hammered without offering, you'd be saying it also proves I'm scum.

To the contrary! I'd be reconsidering my read on you.

Sure, there's scum hammers all the time.

But I recognize the difference between scum hammers and town hammers.

You hammering then would have been a town hammer.

You didn't; instead you were cautious and offered to hammer, the scum move given the current scenario.

Ergo, you're scum.

AHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAA

[Kasumeat]

If I had just hammered without offering, you'd be saying it also proves I'm scum.

To the contrary! I'd be reconsidering my read on you.

Sure, there's scum hammers all the time.

But I recognize the difference between scum hammers and town hammers.

You hammering then would have been a town hammer.

You didn't; instead you were cautious and offered to hammer, the scum move given the current scenario.

Ergo, you're scum.

If Ranger wasn't a Mason, is there any fucking person on the planet who doesn't think this is the scummiest post in the history of Mafia

[Kasumeat]

yo so ranger im not really sure how thats a scumtell

but kasu's tone noticeably changed and they seem to flailing really hard right now

Yeah it's called really fucking pissed off and trying to decide whether to get myself modkilled

[Kasumeat]

It's her fucking smug arrogance as she plays like complete fucking dogshit

[Kasumeat]

That was unexpected

[Kasumeat]

I honestly thought Ranger was just terrible lmao

[Kasumeat]

Yeah the rhymes are nice, you're even getting multiple syllables happening

[Kasumeat]

ISO Masq and it should be pretty obvious why.

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: Masq
L-2

[Kasumeat]

What do you guys make of Ranger's interaction with Joe? She was townreading him hard. If Joe is her scumbuddy, she'd have to know that her protection of him wouldn't last long once her Mason cover is blown. If he wasn't her scumbuddy, I'm not sure she'd risk buddying him since it looks like there's a pretty good chance he's scum.

[Kasumeat]

I think the latter is more likely. I think she just townread him and was hoping he'd get lynched and flip town.

[Kasumeat]

Because I'm not scum and she knew that, and it would throw even more suspicion on me after the gambit is up. I'm still curious why you pulled that gambit

Or not because this post is pretty fucking scummy

[Kasumeat]

FWIW I had somebody else in mind for her scumbuddy but now I'm getting more confident it's Joe

[Kasumeat]

My original thought was Charloux. His no-vote promise is scummy, as is his attacking Random for changing his mind. On the other hand, his posts over the past week have been townier so I dunno. What I don't like is Ranger's interaction with him: She completely ignored him, and he stayed at the middle of her readlist which I think is the most likely place to find her scumbuddy. He's the player she drew the least attention to.

[Kasumeat]

No need to Lynch immediately. I would rather wait a little bit to get more info in case we're wrong on masq or Joe.
UNVOTE:

[Kasumeat]

I also think we're right on Masq, but I'm less certain about the last scum which is why I'd like to at least hear a little from the others before the lynch. We haven't had a single post since the flip from 4 players, and I'd rather not have Masq self-hammer to spite us.