Mini 1762: Game Over

[implosion]

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

[implosion]

srsly tho bbt id enjoy if you were less obvious

[implosion]

You can do whatever you like

[implosion]

Serious note though, that selfvote wasn't scummy.

[implosion]

BBT and kirroha are both pretty good votes.

kirroha's 75 is disconcerting. I agree with RC in that the way she expressed concern over the wagon is likely scum-indicative, but it's dependent on how kirroha follows up that concern as well. Given her claim that there are likely scum on the BBT wagon given how fast it popped up, I'm curious to see what names she specifically indicts.

I actually really don't like BBT's opening, I was posting from class earlier and thought it was kinda weird but thinking more about it I really don't like characterizing tojam's selfvote as awful. It was pretty neutral-looking to me. I'm not sure how you can connect that selfvote to an increased likelihood of being scum (unless by awful he meant that it was bad play in which case I'm not sure why he was calling for more votes).

And @iai yeah I'm already on the wagon.

[implosion]

ah.

[implosion]

hrm.

the winds they are a swaying

Unvote

VOTE: kirroha

[implosion]

aw man shit happened while I wasn't here.

Hrm.

Not sure what to make of a super early softclaim. Or iai's speculation on it. Pretty much the only thing coming strongly out of this is a townread on rc which is nice to have.

[implosion]

Kill also looks pretty town.

[implosion]

Unvote

[implosion]

Actually, never mind. She's scum.

VOTE: Kirroha

[implosion]

I figured out the softclaim.

[implosion]

@Syndesis: The way he's calling out inactivity feels genuine/town motivated.

@ink: Do you know what she's softing? Scum would do that for a variety of reasons.

-Stall wagon momentum (which it did) while not having to actually claim yet and without the typical downsides of a softclaim like that as scum
-Gain towncred by acting in an unusual way
-Set up opportunity to push a counterwagon

Idk, like, that seems like a really really scum-motivated way to softclaim. I usually like things like early softclaims as pretty strong towntells but this just feels scum-motivated.

Why would town do it? It's anti-town, and kirroha strikes me as the kind of player who wouldn't make that kind of a play as town. She shouldn't feel the need to do something that drastic to swing wagon momentum as town at this stage of the game.

[implosion]

My scumread on BBT is waning when I think about it more, however. Scum has the pretense of feeling cautious in these type of scenarious, and disregarding any meta a scum member theoretically would not bring himself to such attention unless, frankly, he's bat shit crazy or a good player.

Are you familiar with this concept?

I enjoy that i was skimming this and saw this post without reading what you were quoting and knew what you were linking to immediately >_>

As for kirroha 128 doesn't really make me feel much either way on her. Her softclaim is

really

scummy. I guess I'll wait for her to say more about it but I'll probably just explain it if no one else does and if she isn't willing to just claim it because if i could figure it out then a coordinated scumteam certainly can. Like there's

yet another

reason why this play makes no sense as town. I figured out the softclaim in like five minutes of looking. The entire point of a softclaim is that scum can't figure out what you are. Kirroha is a 2009 player who's making cogent arguments; I hate to invoke burden of proficiency but I would not expect Kirroha to make such a sloppy play as town, whereas it makes plenty of sense as scum (which, again, I'll explain if Kirroha refuses to hardclaim, but I'll give her a chance to if she wants).

[implosion]

Alright. Let's wallstripe Kirroha's post because I think it's worth it to.

I need to clarify something.

I did not softclaim anything.

All I revealed was that I crumbed my role early in the game, and everyone started going back and trying to figure out what was it that I crumbed and making speculations (which are all wrong).

Two things. One, I probably should have said crumbed instead of softclaimed (I occasionally use them interchangeably which I shouldn't, but etc). Two, mine isn't wrong. And since it's integral to why Kirroha is scum let me just say it (since, again, scum will be able to figure it out anyway since I have): Kirroha has, in fact, breadcrumbed vanilla town in post 107: "xiang'cao'nong'min." It's a transliteration (pinyin) of Chinese for "vanilla peasant" (at least according to the internet).

And to preempt the "lolol implosion is rolefishing" argument because SOMEONE is going to make it: (1) her crumbing vanilla townie is the main reason I think she's scum and (2) scum will be able to figure this out anyway; I'm just opening it up so that the town can discuss it too.

I stated quite clearly that my crumb is in plain sight, but is impossible to figure out unless you know the language.

I don't know the language (I took Chinese in high school over 4 years ago and remember ostensibly nothing); I just recognized what it was and then googled for it. Google translate can't but there are other sites that can translate from pinyin to English. Google translate also gives pinyin. It's not hard to put the relatively few normal roles into google translate and see which ones give what you said.

I have deliberately also made it a crumb that isn't Google Translateable either, so that nobody will be able to tell what it is until I have to explain the crumb myself. Essentially, the crumb will only make sense after I am forced to claim.

There are essentially two things that could be going on here. Either Kirroha is scum and is lying about this (relatively unlikely) or Kirroha is telling the truth that she thought the crumb wasn't decipherable. If it's the latter then it makes plenty of sense as a scum strategy: you can kill the momentum on your wagon without having to commit to claiming anything risky, since it's a vt breadcrumb. I can sort of see the motivation for this as town but it seems way less likely, especially since Kirroha has dropped hint after hint after hint to what she's softclaiming; as scum she wouldn't necessarily care if it got out that she was claiming vt (it doesn't necessarily harm scum) but as town it is harmful for her to be known as a vt (gives scum more info on who to nk).

This is so there is no way my crumb or the fact that I have a crumb would give any kind of extra information to scum.

Instead, it is a way for me to inform the rest of the town that I had a

consistent

role from the beginning, something which scum is unlikely to have. It doesn't necessarily mean a PR softclaim. I could've crumbed "vanilla townie" for all you know.

Again, having a "consistent" role from the beginning is not hard as scum when that role is vanilla townie. Also note that she seems to be backhandedly implying that crumbing vt is something very town-ish to do (which it isn't) by comparing it with this idea of having a consistent role.

@Regarding me as a 2009 player: I just need to clear it up that I have only played 4 games on this site so far - 2 in 2009 and 1 in 2014. In all of them, I was either lynched early, or the game ended early for any other reason. While I'm not trying to excuse being a tentative or bad player, I hope you can consider this fact before anyone points out the fact that I don't play very well as being scummy because "if I'm town I would be better at this since I'm a 2009 player".

Fair enough, but the read of you as competent is more based on you making cogent arguments and the fact that you're arguing from past experience than your join date. It also isn't integral to you being scum.

P-edit: here's another great thing.

I'm not going to talk anymore about my crumb in case you're scum trying to fish information about my role.

If you were town concerned about scum fishing your role there is no way you would give hint after hint after hint about your crumb. If you're scum then in 2-3 days or whenever you're forced to claim you can just explain why you weren't nked after crumbing by saying "oh well I guess scum figured out my role."

[implosion]

tl;dr lynch Kirroha. Probably scum. Worst case vt.

[implosion]

To clarify the hints:

137: says she's crumbing.
156: hints that she's not crumbing a role scum commonly have.
158: says the crumb is obviously a crumb, which makes it easy to find.
230: "Impossible to know unless you know the language." Hints that it's written in another language.
231: explicitly says the above.

[implosion]

Ok so you're using the basis of that crumb to scumread her?

Dude, been there done that did not work out

?

I don't know what you're referring to but unless it's a different game in which someone crumbed vanilla townie and then repeatedly mentioned and clarified the crumb and did all of the other things i'm scumreading Kirroha for then I don't see how this is relevant at all. This is a different game with a different player (I assume) from whatever you're referring to.

[implosion]

I'm like, pretty damn sure about this for a d1 read. Really want to know what others especially rc/iai think.

[implosion]

"more or less" is not a thing in mafia >_>

Every game is entirely different, every player exhibits an entirely different personality and set of tendencies as either alignment.
Different site means different meta as well. I could imagine crumbing vt like this to be much less indicative of scum in a different metagame.

[implosion]

Like, there are tells.

But saying "I saw something similar in another game therefore I give your case no credence" (or at least implying it) is frustrating.

[implosion]

So you admit that you know I'm telling the truth but you want to lynch me anyway. Cool.

What. How did I say this at all.

[implosion]

I'm saying tunneling the read based off a crumb and not in game behavior hasn't worked out for me, and I was 99 percent sure

Again
That was one crumb
This is an extremely different crumb (again an assumption)
Plus it isn't just the crumb on its own, it's her behavior around the crumb.

[implosion]

That's just not true. If you claim anything other than vanilla townie on day one as scum, you have to explain why you're still alive on day two. If you claim doctor, or cop, or even some weak power role, that's plenty of reason for scum to kill you. That's not even wifom; if you're going to softclaim or breadcrumb something d1 as scum when you think there's a significant chance you're going to have to claim it, you're going to go for vt or some weak role.

VT is an extremely strong claim as scum; it throws you into a massive pool of indistinguishable players and forces the town to use scumhunting to discern between them, and scumhunting is always fallible.

[implosion]

Idk. I might be wrong. I really want to hear either people agreeing with me or some better reason for me to be dissuaded than there having been a similar situation in which the person in question was town.

[implosion]

Bleh. I'll look more at other people later. I am probably starting to tunnel.

[implosion]

I've been really lazy today. I can see Kirroha as town now. Not convinced. But meh. I'm not sure what I think about the vt claim thinking more about it. It just feels so off but she's said some things that seem pretty unlikely as scum. I guess I'm willing to table a kirroha lynch for now, but I still wouldn't mind it I think given that I still think she's potentially scum (and since she's claiming vt).

@kirroha: I can definitely see shortcut as scum. I've tried to read his ISO a couple times and I just can't really tell what he's doing; it seems like he's just not committing that strongly, and possibly in a scummy way. The hop off of kirroha is also pretty arbitrary-looking.

Idk about killthestory. I still get a gut townvibe from what I mentioned earlier. 375 is interesting, but I feel like it's probably just a misunderstanding that could be cleared if killthestory clarifies what he means.

BBT is just a pile of either null or null-slightly-leaning-scum. He really needs to do some shit.

Unvote

VOTE: Shortcut

Still need to keep looking at others. If anyone wants me to prioritize looking at anyone else in particular say so, otherwise I'll keep working through getting reads later.

[implosion]

I think you're definitely tunneling, possibly moreso since you seem to think VTs are disposable.

This is inaccurate. I would be happy to lynch someone who I have, say, a small scumread on and who I know isn't a power role on day one. I wouldn't want to lynch a vt claim that I had a townread on.

But whatever. You're misinterpreting a lot of my case but I'm not interested in looking more at your slot right now. Maybe later.

[implosion]

I can see IAI scum. 328 is pretty bad. He jumps off of Rubixxx because he thinks it won't get momentum but still leaves a lingering fos and the reasoning for that fos is that he started posting after IAI pointed out that he wasn't. It's damned-if-you-do damned-if-you-don't.
Curious why RC thinks IAI's scum/is willing to vote him.

Nino is probably town based on the way she phrased her defense of kirroha.

tojam's last post is pretty sad... rhetorically asking if someone's done anything useful yet when his contributions amount to calling some reasoning poor without explaining why, and voting someone else for an ad hom.

Rubixxx seems somewhat town. Mostly gut though. Can elaborate if desired.

[implosion]

Rubixxx, there isn't really a "standard." Do whatever you want. In general if you find yourself with too many townreads or too many scumreads then that can inform which people you need to be looking more at.

RC, what do you currently think of shortcut and IAI?

[implosion]

Why do I interest you?

[implosion]

Good observation, Raskolnikov.

Would you happen to have any scumreads of your own?

[implosion]

ok so I wanna vote this guy because
well you see
its very subtle
the way he
actually just trust me

Infallible.

[implosion]

So RC, you said in the other game that the way to read you is to just wait until d3 and if you're alive you're scum, right?

[implosion]

Implosion you just introduced wifom and ruined that you fool

Hi Raskolnikov.

Do you have any scumreads?

[implosion]

I was wondering if you would ask again

Yes.

How many?

[implosion]

okay tojam i know you've said a couple of times that this game has had a lot of flaming but

other things have kind of happened

so if you could comment on those it would be nice?

Also Raskolnikov if you could not be intentionally opaque? That would also be cool.

[implosion]

I mean I guess I should say the same thing to RC. I guess for some reason I kind of expect it from RC even though we've only played half a game together. He just seems like he belongs to that set of players that's always going to do that.

Intentional opacity is really annoying. It makes you harder to read. If you're town you shouldn't want to be harder to read.

[implosion]

@bbt I think 183 was part of it but I don't remember what I saw in it that was strongly town. There was something but I don't remember and it doesn't look particularly town looking back.

Pretty lazy. Will continue doing shit later.

[implosion]

Some of Rubixxx's posts' lines of thought feel genuine (i.e. 290). 300 and 303 also strike me as genuine: the way he phrases those posts just doesn't feel like scum faking activity or faking an attitude or whatever. That general feeling of not being faked carries over into his more recent posting as well. 541 for instance feels genuine to me.

I can't see how you got town from 183 at all...

yeah neither can I >_> I tend to read very scattershot into things on day one and then often go back on later days and not really be sure why I read things as strongly as I did.

Right now I have ostensibly no opinion on RC.

[implosion]

Syndesis lynch is O.K. with me but I like lynching Taisho more. I think scum is mostly hiding in the hidden spot between the war between RC-senpai and BBT. I am less suspicious of those who are taking one side or another, and more suspicious of those who are dancing in-between. I do not think I am smart enough to understand the War between ink and Kill and Rubixxx sadly.

TheCow is it OK if you prods Kill, Taisho, Implosion and Syndesis? >w<

i posted 11 goddamn hours ago >_>

[implosion]

Yeah I don't want this day to end yet. Especially with a lynch on someone who's posted once.

Unvote

[implosion]

Now Taisho is back to L-2. Strange how this wagon never seems to hold up very strong.

I really don't see how "back to L-2" isn't holding up strong

[implosion]

VOTE: TaishoGal for Nino

I'm going crazy, I swear Nino just posted telling someone to put Taisho at L-1, and now I've lynched him/her because it was all in my head!

At least we don't need a replacement now.

Does anyone else read this as terribly scummy, and an awful attempt to "accidentally" hammer another user? I could be reading too much into it, but idk.

*goes back to watching One Punch Man*

I can also see this.

[implosion]

Yeah I actually don't like this wagon. There are too many people who seem too willing to stay on the wagon this late when we don't have any recent information on the person being wagoned.

[implosion]

Yeah shorts voting history is very bad (niño, kirr, and BBT) + this lurking near deadline hints at scum hoping a wagon will disappear.

unvote rubixxx
Vote taishagal

Kill is also still a great wagon

this lurking just seems like a player who joined too many games and hasn't started reading and then the game got longer and they continued not wanting to read

i feel like that's pretty much entirely alignment-independent. Why do you think it hints at scum?

[implosion]

damn you cow why would you do this to me I didn't even read the thread
Gimme a day or two I have to sleep soon.

There's only 2 reasons someone would be upset like this:

1) they're town and not happy starting at L-2
2) they're scum and not happy starting at L-2.

That's such a false dichotomy and it completely sidesteps the question that I asked.

It looks to me like taisho joined this game and has basically read 0 posts because of lack of motivation or other commitments or whatever. I'm not even convinced that she knows she's at l-1.

I really am kind of apathetic about this game right now. I feel like I really haven't gotten what I want to out of this d1. I liked syndesis's tojam vote and I'd join that.

Actually let's just do that for now and see if it gets traction. It really isn't that close to deadline.

VOTE: tojam

I can try looking at kill again but I really just feel like there's going to be a mislynch unless momentum shifts significantly. I Mean bbt might not be but I really don't know how to read him.

I really don't know how people have

strong

scumreads on taisho. Scumreading the slot makes sense but it just doesn't make sense to me that a lack of posting can give you a strong scumread in context. It really feels like the easy mislynch that scum are just letting slide by. The other wagons were built up and torn down pretty quickly; this one has been at l-2 or l-1 for a long time now because we're waiting and no one has really been pushing for anything else very hard. Or at least it doesn't feel like it.

[implosion]

Yeah I think this is better than taisho. Idk I still get a gut townvibe from his early posting but his recent posting is pretty bad. I really don't know how to feel about bbt. It'd be nice if RC would say anything about why he suspects bbt but until then *shrug*. I think I prefer kill over bbt a bit.And either of them over taisho.

VOTE: Kill

2.5 days left is also starting to actually be a time crunch.

[implosion]

Today was a long day.

Idk. I just can't motivate myself to figure out this game as much as I'd like to. I still think the Robster slot is town especially after Robster's initial posting. I'm willing to lynch kts or bbt. There's just an alarming lack of coalescing.

I think I still have a preference for kill over bbt.

Again though if RC said any actual content about bbt he might be able to convince me but it doesn't look like he wants to. BBT's last post is a bit weird but I can see it as a rushed post from either alignment.

[implosion]

I can very much get behind this flashwagon. IAI's felt off all game and his argument for KTS still being the best is sketchy at best. It's reasonable to want to limit additional claims but saying "we didn't lynch the pr claim d1 in this game and we lost to them" is just absurd. It would have been right in that game; that doesn't make it right in this game or in general. Jailkeeper may be a common fakeclaim for scum rb but that doesn't preclude him being a town jailkeeper... and jailkeeper is a pretty damn likely role for scum to kill tonight if he is town (thus saving us the wasted mislynch). I don't know what scum claimed d1 in the game he linked (I looked for it a bit and then got bored) but we will get extra info about kts by not lynching him. 847 just feels like scum who's mad that they had the day locked down and that they might get derailed by the jk claim.

His play this game also just hasn't felt like last game. But that's somewhat of a weak feeling. But he's done other individual things that felt scummy.

VOTE: IAI

[implosion]

Well I woke up for this but this does not look particularly promising. I don't think I've ever been in a game that went to a deadline nl.

VOTE: tojam

L2. I think.

[implosion]

yes, I super hard drove a BBT lynch as scum citing my meta scumread and went on to win the game. BBT expressed that he thought I might be scum and spent some time pursuing that but gave up and (I believe) ended up townreading me when he died in that game. But he made a serious effort to pursue the avenue of scum!RC and regardless of whether I'm correct that he died townreading me he didn't give me a carte blanche townread.

He has made no real effort to consider the possibility that I'm scum here and given my proficiency as scum and the relentlessness that I've been pushing him I can't imagine him as town reacting in the way he did on this page; a way that basically 100% assumes that I'm town with the tone and the words that he responded to me with. It really doesn't grok, especially when he's been claiming to townread me.

The way he's avoiding the thread and coming back at times that help him as scum feels really bad as well.

You know earlier than 30 minutes before deadline would have made just a teensy bit more sense to say this when multiple people were asking

[implosion]

Tojam is more likely to reach lynch

[implosion]

Okay god I hate phone posting. Let me think

[implosion]

Yeah this isn't really looking promising for any lynch <_<

[implosion]

I'm here.

I just love it how nobody finds it shady that implosion kill and rubixxx are all MIA as we scrounge to find the best town to lynch

There's this thing called I was asleep

[implosion]

Is anyone else still here other than us

I'll be here until deadline then I'm going back to sleep

[implosion]

Note that you're not being productive right now and that we get it

[implosion]

And I can at 11:29 if need be

[implosion]

But it's pointless if just me and kirro are here

[implosion]

Me or rc?

[implosion]

still need one more i think?

[implosion]

no

lynch tojam

we have enough to lynch tojam

[implosion]

i feel better about him than iai also after the selfvote

[implosion]

siiiiiilent niiiight
hooooooly niiiiiight

[implosion]

no. it gives me pause on you being scum.

[implosion]

i'm not sure what your motivation there as scum is to selfvote when a lynch on you is a strong possibility but it's possible

[implosion]

can't believe this actually happened >_>

[implosion]

synd or rask maybe? Idk. They've both felt vaguely town to me too though. I could be wrong on either of them or rubixxx. Or kts. Like it really could be anyone. Or even no one, possibly. It's also possible that scum were lurky near deadline so they just didn't hop on. Although ink is the only person who didn't post after you got wagoned.

[implosion]

We should've just hammered Taisho when we could.

i mean in retrospect yeah

in practice this has never happened in around ~50 games i've played on ms

[implosion]

{rubix, kts, syndesis, ink} are the people who didn't post in the past 2 hours. The most recent of them was rubix at 18 hours, the next most recent was nino at 2 hours ago.

I wonder to some extent if it's possible both scum are in there. Or if scum are less likely to be in there since so many people were online and we still couldn't reach a lynch.

This is gonna be a rough game >_>

[implosion]

synd or rask maybe? Idk. They've both felt vaguely town to me too though. I could be wrong on either of them or rubixxx. Or kts. Like it really could be anyone. Or even no one, possibly. It's also possible that scum were lurky near deadline so they just didn't hop on. Although ink is the only person who didn't post after you got wagoned.

So you just voted kill before me, yet he is the least likely to be scum on my wagon?

Eh, not really. Idk, I haven't put a ton of thought into him since the claim. When someone makes a pr claim on d1, unless I have a very strong scumread on them (and I can only think of one game that fits that category), I more or less file them into the back of my head until later. I guess it's inaccurate to say that I think he's the least likely scum on your wagon (or a particularly unlikely one). More so that the claim will likely help resolve itself to some degree. Basically every night he doesn't die makes him more likely scum. Even given that I suspect he'll probably die tonight if he's town.

Essentially I feel like I don't have to think about kts right now. If he's alive tomorrow then I'll think more; but if he's town then he's likely to die and it's wasted effort.

[implosion]

VOTE: RC

[implosion]

I see RC's end of day as very scummy. Him having pushed BBT and BBT flipping town is whatever. But RC just mercilessly tunneled BBT for the last several RL days without ever considering other possibilities. In particular RC never showed a shred of willingness to compromise to get a lynch; he essentially put forward BBT or nothing. He pushed BBT or nothing up until, quite literally, the very last minute of the day. It just doesn't feel town-motivated that he had no concern at all about the day ending.

[implosion]

wow that convinces me

[implosion]

RC if you haven't figured it out yet you aren't going to get anywhere with me if you're just going to use rhetoric. I'd thought you'd have figured that out after the seventh time I asked you to explain why BBT was scum yesterday. And to your credit you eventually did. Now if you're town give me some reason to think it.

[implosion]

I think I'm working based off of strong townreads of GR, Nino, and prooobably kirroha. My gut also really wants to put Rubixxx in that pile. A lot that he's posted just feels genuinely town at a really basic level. I have some other townreads here and there but need to re-evaluate them for the most part.

[implosion]

RC town. Nino town.

I'm going back to my shortcut read because heck. VOTE: Golden Robster

Also beeboy, your predecessor claimed a PR before he vanished. Do you stick by that?

Why RC town?
What do you think of GR in a vacuum?

[implosion]

@

Rubixxx

: tell me why scum RC would deathtunnel a townie. (This is not a rhetorical question.)

I essentially said it was something a scum player would NOT do, but RC corrected me by saying it's something he HAS done before as scum, which quite honestly left me stumped about how to respond.

His entire essence is the embodiment of WIFOM, so I'm not even going to touch trying to argue him either way with a 9 foot pole. I WILL, however, say my scum read on him remains because of it because... fuck if I know. With RC, I sometimes feel like you just have to guess one way or the other and stick to it, because it's not like anything about his play is EVER purely pro-town or pro-scum.

I have been lynched once as scum. Two town got instalynched after my lynch for it.
I have been lynched about 25 times as town.

You're better off just assuming I'm town, and that's a fact.

for some reason this doesn't give me even an inkling of desire to unvote you

[implosion]

Also @GR the difference between their death tunnels is what I said here. IAI was very willing to vote even himself to get a deadline lynch; RC was not.

[implosion]

(that is, not willing to vote people other than his death tunnel target, as opposed to not willing to vote himself)

[implosion]

for some reason this doesn't give me even an inkling of desire to unvote you

If I was scum you have a 0% chance of getting me lynched.

It took both my partners bussing me and me fakeclaiming cop to get someone lynched to get me lynched that one time.

What chance do you think

you

would have?

Postie spent like days reviewing my meta and couldn't catch me.

Again

this does not convince me even remotely to unvote you

[implosion]

"appeal to i'm a better player than everyone" is the opposite of a valid argument

[implosion]

RC looks more town in the last page. Not super strongly but a bit. I could see what he did as what ink accused him of but I can also easily see it as genuinely looking for reads.

/sigh. I also can't get any scumreads to stick. I really don't know what to think of ink, he hasn't really done anything recently that made me feel strongly. Most people in the game feel various degrees of townish and no one really feels scummy. I'm basically reading entirely by weak poe and I'm not happy with that at this point in the game.

I think the people I can be most persuaded to vote at this point are RC/beeboy/ink. But I definitely think I'm wrong about some of my townreads. I might join kirroha's beeboy vote.

[implosion]

@IAI:

Rask is a weak townread based on gut feeling about some posts. Idr exactly what. He's one of my weaker townreads.

GR is a strong townread. Of the d1 wagons the sb one felt the most to me like it had characteristics of a mislynch being pushed by scum. I thought SB's posting was moderately bad but the way the wagon stagnated/stayed very large after he disappeared felt scum-driven. The fact that the wagon stayed at l-1 or l-2 for like half a week or a week or something like that when there had been no recent posts from the slot and very little pre-existing posting (not enough to get a strong read imo) felt off. GR's posting on replacing in really didn't feel like i-just-replaced-into-a-scum-slot. His reaction to kirroha's reaction test felt genuine, and he just immediately started attacking people in every direction in a way that really didn't strike me as something that scum would do if they replaced into a wagoned slot. It feels too acerbic for scum in that situation.

Actually yeah this is good. I think tojam's vote on the sb slot might have been the part of the wagon that was doing that. I need to go back and look at the timeline more closely though.

VOTE: beeboy

[implosion]

prod dodge. Pretty low motivation atm. Mostly for rl reasons.

[implosion]

@Rask:

GR is a strong townread. Of the d1 wagons the sb one felt the most to me like it had characteristics of a mislynch being pushed by scum. I thought SB's posting was moderately bad but the way the wagon stagnated/stayed very large after he disappeared felt scum-driven. The fact that the wagon stayed at l-1 or l-2 for like half a week or a week or something like that when there had been no recent posts from the slot and very little pre-existing posting (not enough to get a strong read imo) felt off. GR's posting on replacing in really didn't feel like i-just-replaced-into-a-scum-slot. His reaction to kirroha's reaction test felt genuine, and he just immediately started attacking people in every direction in a way that really didn't strike me as something that scum would do if they replaced into a wagoned slot. It feels too acerbic for scum in that situation.

Also rubixxx is cementing himself as town. Although I feel like this:

No, wait, I know. It's that smarmy, smug little "I've got this all figured out because I'm the absolute shit" attitude. That "I'm gonna death tunnel you because apparently I think my word is law" mindset.

should also apply to RC's play yesterday.

[implosion]

Pretty sure beeboy is scum. I saw the softclaim had 13 letters on d1 and thought it might be a vanilla claim. I was hoping he was actually a town PR and was trying to hide it by like, encoding "xxxxxcopxxxxx" or something like that, which would be really clever, although kind of counterproductive given that he replaced out... but if it was actually a vt claim then I find it hard to believe that he would have made that claim with an emphasis on "lol you can't crack this" with it actually having been a 13-letter ciphertext of "vanilla townie."

[implosion]

Yes. Rask was already on the wagon.

Would be nice if we could still lynch the slot though~

Also rubixxx continues to be town

[implosion]

Essentially its excessive storytelling, too much back-and-forth, and emotionally he comes off as doubting its legitimate but pretty much going with it anyways with a fake reluctance.

I think this is just the way I tend to talk; if you look at my meta you'll see similar things.

[implosion]

I'm really having trouble motivating myself to sort out my weak townreads. Gut says RC is town right now. I feel like I have a pretty tenuous basis for reading him at all though.
I just can't really see anything in ink's iso that makes me feel strongly. I don't really see what Rubixxx does. But he's certainly not a townread. He just looks like one of those players who has a very abstruse playstyle. Synd and Rask both consistently do things that make me feel slightly town. Like, I can potentially see what GR is saying about Syndesis, but associative tells without flips are almost universally weak just because of statistics. Syndesis' posts feel genuine in general. Like her most recent reads list. The way she talks about her townreads feels like a townie who's having trouble sorting things out. Rask's general affect also feels town.

[implosion]

I'm willing to hear more about Nino. I haven't reevaluated her in a while. But I feel like I had pretty good reasons for that town read.

[implosion]

I'm town but I haven't had any solid scumreads for most of the game. I'm extremely confident that rubixxx is town and I'm pretty confident that GR and kirroha are town but I could be convinced on those two. I don't think anyone is going to convince me that rubixxx is scum. I'm guessing it's 3 out of you/rask/rc/syndesis. I think if I were to hazard a guess right now it would be that rc is town. But bleh.

I've spent the past week (spring break) essentially just doing stuff with friends so I haven't been looking at this much. I'll try to put a big chunk of time into solidifying reads tomorrow probably, or maybe Sunday. If someone wants to chat about something I can although I'm not sure how online I'll be atm so I'm not sure how directly I'll be able to chat back and forth.

[implosion]

Like I've mentioned I have too many town reads. Rask and synd have been weak town reads for a while. But now most of the player list are stronger town reads than them.

I'd say Synd is probably a bit stronger right now but that's just from memory. And like, me guessing rc as the town in those four is very much at the level that I will probably feel differently after any amount of consideration. I could very easily see any of the four as town. Or maybe gr or kirro as scum but less likely so.

[implosion]

Also I interpreted what you said as me being sheepable from some previous game. Why/how strongly do you town read syndesis?

[implosion]

GR's recent posting is definitely lacking compared to his earlier posting. But idk, his early posting still really looks town. That said I can say the same thing about kirro. But idk, I have trouble getting past existing townreads on either of them. Nothing in their recent posting really looks particularly scummy, a lot of it is very coasty and that's pretty much null. GR's complaining about no one following him is interesting in that regard as well. It feels town to me since he's been pretty consistent in his reads.

I'm pretty lazy right now though.

[implosion]

Yeah... mafia doctor and town doctor both make very very little sense (assuming RC is town and not BSing). If there's a scum doctor and a town jk that makes the vig oddly weak. Town doctor + town jk + 1-shot vig + town rolecop seems like a lot, although I guess it's possible if scum is strong or has roles like a tracker or a jk of their own or something like that although again jk would make the vig really weak.

On the other hand if RC is scum and there's a town doctor that seems pretty decently balanced. Town doctor synergizes nicely with the 1-shot vig because they can protect them after they're outed (especially since the jailkeeper is limited although 3 shots is a lot). There's been a recent trend (or at least it feels like it) that rolecops have been more town than scum, and it's possible RC could be trying to gain cred from confirming himself as a rolecop in this way, or making it so that he's able to kill the doctor tonight with impunity and still claim rolecop. I could imagine RC doing something like that.

Idk, I guess it could make sense either way contingent on what else we see claimed.

@Rask: I'm actually surprised how little I've drawn scum looking back. I assume the one game you found was ffery's, which to be fair is actually probably a pretty good example of me as scum. I'd imagine it'd be close to how I'd play as scum these days. I remember liking the approach I had to that game.

We're at another one of those awkward we-can't-really-do-much points in a way again, though. Nino hasn't posted for 4 and a half days, Rubixxx is replacing out. Idk. I might just wait for massclaim to finish before trying to solidify reads. But the rolecop claim is good food for thought.

RC, did you crumb? Do you have a history of crumbing when you roll PR? If no and yes, why? You strike me as the kind of player who would although idk if you would just not because you die early a lot.

[implosion]

The way RC is claiming is also interesting. Actually it seems more likely to be the latter; if RC were a town rolecop with a doctor result there's like no reason at all not to wait and see if they claim. A scum doctor would likely not claim doctor so them claiming doctor would lend credence. Now if RC is town, with a result on a scum doctor, they get to claim their role for free. This is like god-awful play if RC is town. You wait if you have an investigative or possibly contradicting result to see if someone contradicts it. Like the last game I played where I was a town rb and blocked the last scum but still waited for them to claim just in case I could get a tiny bit of extra information that would matter.

This seems much more like the second paragraph of my last post. It seems extremely likely that RC is scum trying to gain cred by claiming before the doctor does, so that RC can claim rolecop, get role confirmation, and kill the publicly outed doctor tonight and then nino the next night.

[implosion]

VT. Think that just leaves GR and rubixxx-slot; GR next.

Challenging the doctor is somewhat bold

Indeed; and my impression of RC from the game and a half I've played with him is that he is quite bold.

I really disagree with your post on a fundamental level; I don't think you can accurately put yourself in the shoes of scum-RC and call with any degree of certainty what strategy you think he would be following.

[implosion]

I've lost my last shred of motivation if that wasn't clear

[implosion]

@Rask: gs is gunsmith.

Well this was a thrilling conclusion to the massclaim.

I'm not voting magna unless there's some damn good reason. RC and GIF are off the table too (and nino obviously). I guess that leaves rask/gr/synd/kirro. Magna, do you think 3-shot jk + 1-shot vig would be balanced in 13p? I guess it's possible if there are only 2 scum but if that's the case we could cross that bridge if the game doesn't end if we mislynch in what we thought was lylo.

Kirroha has done nothing since a week and a half ago (not that I have either). But i don't know if I'm going to have the willpower to actually solidify a read on her. She still did things d1 that pinged town. And GR still feels town. I think I lean vaguely toward voting Rask right now over synd. I have a better memory of the things that I thought pinged town from synd than from rask. Really though my reads are probably all shit right now and there's a pretty nominal chance of me ever having motivation to fix that concretely.

Magna if there's anything in particular from kirro that you want to point out other than the vt claim that would be nice. I don't think the claim itself was very towny but I think what made me feel kirro-town was the way she talked about the claim. It felt genuine/like it would be too bald-faced for scum.

[implosion]

I really don't see synd+gr as a team, looking at it more. GR->synd doesn't feel very bussy. It looks like a scumread that transitioned from not being primary to being a main scumread naturally. Idk, GR's early posting still feels really genuine to me. I have a hard time seeing him as scum even though his recent posting isn't as strongly town. Especially with synd.

I think rask is the person for scum that contradicts the fewest of the feelings that I have of having townread people. I really, really doubt it's gr/synd/kirro, and unless the gif inno is false I really just can't think of a team that would make rask town. Unless somehow magna is scum. In which case wp rubixxx i guess. I really don't see myself getting past that townread.

I can imagine rask + two of gr/synd/kirro, or replacing one of those with gif. Honestly I think this game makes way more sense if gif is scum. Like, rask/synd/gif would be by far the most sensible team in my head. RC's role is strong enough that I can imagine scum having both a godfather and a doctor (it would be interesting design too, giving the two kinds of investigative abilities so that if you think you hit a false negative you can try again and that each one has a different false negative). Either way I don't think I want to put a lot of stock in that, but I don't think I want to lynch him today.

Regardless I just cannot think of any team that doesn't have rask on it.

VOTE: Rask

[implosion]

Scum doctor passes gunsmith check, yes.
Since my results have been outed anyway, GIF is Cop inno and Implosion is GS inno.

I don't believe there would be both a Godfather and a scumdoc and I feel like both that Implosion was taking advantage of his inno status and also trying to introduce wifom.

Why after all would one of the innos say that there was both a godfather and a scumdoc? It just doesn't feel right to me.

You should know that I speculate like this from literally the half of a game that you played with me. I'm not thinking of myself as an inno; i'm trying to figure out what roles would make the setup make sense and how likely gif is to be scum/whether it would be likely that he'd be scum regardless of which inno result he was since you weren't outing which was which yet. I don't know why you're saying "one of the innos." The fact that I have an inno result on me doesn't strongly affect how I'm looking at the game.

But again.

I do this kind of speculation in like every game I play.

RC I really don't see any of your logic for anything this game from the d1 read on bbt to any of the calls you're making today. I'm confident you're town, but I really don't see anything that you're talking about.

MoI also hit the nail on the head re: rask's post. It's completely vapid.

[implosion]

Aight Robster's just trying to avoid dealing out associatives now.

would scum-gr who was scum with me REALLY just not respond to your post for the sake of possibly not giving additional associative tells (hint: there's no way any scum player in their right mind would do this)
or did gr just miss your post because it was posted at literally the exact same minute.

you're tunneling. Really, really hard.

[implosion]

can someone who rc trusts like
tell him that he's being really stupid right now
because i'm pretty sure he's not going to listen to literally anything i say and this is frustrating.

[implosion]

like, i might be wrong about my reads but about me at least he is being really stupid

[implosion]

yeah, i also figured he was lying about the commute.

I really think it's rask/gif. No one else makes sense as scum to me. I really don't think synd/gr was a bus and I really don't think kirro or moi are scum. Like, I think I'd like to lynch rask and if he flips scumdoc then it's probably one of synd/kirro but gs means scum do relatively likely have a doc and if Rask flips scum not-doc then I don't think the gs results mean much at that point since there'd be one scum alive and no flipped doc.

Seeing the flip also makes me feel a bit better about gif-scum because gs-doc is a lot more common these days than godfather. I was having a lot of trouble coming up with a team that made complete sense yesterday but now I think rask/gif really raises no alarm bells.

I do agree that RC certainly checked gif. Unless scum have a roleblocker and he just didn't want to claim a result but then he'd have claimed some other role in the joat. Like the fact that he claimed two investigative shots and commute means he was trying to tell us that he used two investigations on me and gif, and he just had to change one of them to cop to make the commute believable (although, surprise surprise, it looks like scum saw through it >_>)

VOTE: Rask

[implosion]

Curious what moi thinks of the flip as well. And also hopefully for nino to get in here and do stuff >_>

[implosion]

Oh no my moi townread is like 99% leftover rubixxx townread.

I honestly haven't put much effort into reading moi. Which I should probably do.

[implosion]

Idk moi. like, I see some of the things you're saying but a lot of it I'm tending to agree with nino on; like, the compulsive vigilante thing is really stretching it. That's a pretty reasonable question to ask from town or scum trying to get a sense of people's reads if they're feeling a bit lost. Idk, looking at your general case there are a lot of things that I want to say about it but they aren't really that accurate. It feels like some of the things you're accusing her of are more personality tells, like the way that she interacted with her supposed scumreads, and some others feel like a deeper level of planning than I'd expect 3 pages into a game. Some of them are pretty good points. I think the thing that gives me most pause on review is the play around the gr vt claim. It does feel somewhat abrupt, or like she took the now-active replacement as an excuse to not have to actually go through with the bus. But the vt claim still feels town at a gut level. Like, 380 does not feel made up to me. I feel like that post would be very difficult to fake effectively as scum and it looks like a genuine reaction to me, even more so on re-reading through it. Some things in it are a little odd (like saying she'd claim macho townie with a gun or whatever) but ultimately that post feels like that of a townie who was trying to explain why what they did was actually obviously town play.

I guess I can see her as possible scum. But not as much as rask or gif. I don't remember ever seeing gif do anything; I just kind of forgot about him when I lost all motivation and RC kind of ignored him presumably because of the gs inno. I think I might be able to see her as scum more so than syndesis. I think I'd put my reads at something like rask > gif > kirro > synd > moi from scum -> town at this point.

I'm probably not going to have the motivation to enter a sustained dialogue about kirroha (end of semester/college is really sapping a lot of that at arbitrary times) but I guess I do feel like lynching rask+gif+kirro should win the game like 95%. I really don't see synd or magna as scum. And of that I think I'd put rask+gif at like 80-85%? I really have a hard time getting past any of the feelings of thinking the others are town. Again kirro is like possible but I really don't think that vt thing was faked.

[implosion]

Who do you think is the scumteam?

I still want to hear an answer to this question. Just because he hunts mostly by poe doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to give a most likely scumteam at this point in the game. I also want to hear Synd's answer to this; I have a better sense of her person-specific reads but she's hinted at some teams she finds unlikely and I'd like some elaboration on that.

[implosion]

GR was also pressuring synd long before d3. GR's play looks more like scum who was somewhat-frantically trying to swing the easiest mislynch (synd) while still fossing a buddy (rask). It really looks like a classic instance of vote-a-townie fos-a-buddy so that he can push for the mislynch while still appearing to maintain distance from a teammate.

[implosion]

Because he was trying to push for a synd lynch while fossing you, rather than trying to push for a you lynch while fossing synd... I do see a big difference in effort from GR for you vs syn on the last day. In fact his very first post of the day put synd alone in his bottom tier on his scumreads. It's a moot point that he technically would have had to vote you and even the way you phrased that feels like it came from a mindset of him having been scum with you.

I have also thought synd's play today has looked much more genuine than yours. I'm really not buying the "lynch me then syndesis" narrative. It feels constructed.

[implosion]

It'd be lovely if kirro could like do something given that she's said she's up to lynch either of the two candidates that have had the most suspicion expressed toward them and then didn't really elaborate at all.

Or we could just lynch rask.

[implosion]

well then you don't have to but you're still my top pick for scum with him so :hitoshrug:

[implosion]

I mean I guess hopefully kirroha is scum ~_~ it seems certainly possible.

If kirro+nino get modkilled then it's effectively as if we lynched kirro and scum killed nino. And honestly I'm almost willing to vote kirro. I really think it's 2/3 in rask/gif/kirro and although kirro is imo the least likely in that group we do at least have a ml. It's unfortunate that we might be forced to use it without really having a choice if she's town.

I feel like I've already put the effort that I should into figuring this game out and more is just going to lead to second-guessing in a bad way. Having more time to is just useless to me unless there's other specific points people want to raise. And steam has run out from pretty much everyone with regards to those.

[implosion]

Would be really nice if you could you know provide any reason at all for your reads out of nowhere that are essentially the opposite of mine in most regards but w/e -_-

I guess kirroha getting lynched isn't the end of the world. Still feel like lynching the three i've said will win the game. Still don't see synd or moi being scum.

[implosion]

@dwlee magna's predecessor was really really town. Really i'm reading rask as scum more by poe myself than by anything else. If you have actual reasons for any of your reads then I'm happy to discuss them but it sounds like you're mostly just pulling them out of thin air.

Agreed with synd that we need to consolidate. And this looks like the only place that it'll happen.

VOTE: Kirroha

[implosion]

I keep opening this game and wanting to be motivated but it just isn't coming. I definitely think I might be wrong on Rask at this point because some of his recent posting does give pretty strong townvibes but idk. I still just really don't think syn or moi makes sense as scum.

Like rask is sounding somewhat town but I don't really agree with his points. Like post 2020 feels like too simplistic of a view of how scum act. But it feels like reasoning that's coming from town.

Right now I just really think gif is scum coasting on a fake inno and I just can't get a confident read. The other three all seem pretty strongly town to me. And I can't really get past any of those reasons. Like, rask gave some townvibes early on that disappeared early yesterday and his posting started seeming fairly scum-motivated to me, but now it doesn't feel scum-motivated anymore.

I sort of feel like I should give this game an iso read of each of those three slots at least but like the constant delays and missing player slots and everything have just sapped my motivation for this game. I have time for it but not motivation. It's really annoying that the only slot I really feel good about as scum is gif and I still agree we shouldn't lynch gif today.

[implosion]

Rask it's not like me replacing out is going to be good for this game. It'll be really bad. I've

been

playing this game and have experienced the earlier days and have reads based on those. Look at all of the playing the game that dwlee was willing to do yesterday. He basically arbitrarily listed reads until a lynch happened. IMO the biggest reason this has been a struggle game was the constant stream of slots being under replacement from day one until yesterday.

I don't really care about being read as town right now. I care about figuring out which of the three of you is scum (or which two) so that we can not-lose the game today. If we manage not to screw up today then I'll start caring about how I'm read.

I would have remorse for having been in the game and not playing it but i

have

been playing it. I analyzed things as the game went on. I re-analyzed them yesterday. At some point it feels like looking at the same material too many times does more harm than good. Especially given that that's essentially why I don't have any strong reads right now. I've basically second-guessed everything that I've thought throughout this game. I was really, really confident rubixx's slot and synd were town based on their play and interactions with gr, and your recent actions probably aren't on par with the degree to which I saw their actions/relations as townish but because of recency they're more at the front of my mind.

I've explained both of those townreads in pretty high depth throughout this game I think. Rubixxx made posts that I don't think would have been faked. Gr interacted with synd in a way that I don't think would have happened if they were both scum. With regards to 2020 like I said it's just overly simplistic. It's overlys implistic because assumes synd-town would be so confident in her read on you so as to stake the game. After you offered the 1 for 1 synd described you as "probably scum?" and I would hardly expect town with that stance to want to take an offer of a 1-for-1. It's overly simplistic because it assumes scum will just go for that kind of thing. Scum aren't going to "accept" or "go for" a 1-for-1 offer because that doesn't mean that it happens. That can look scummy to do. Like, most of the time that that kind of thing happens from town it's so that analysis like you gave in 2020 can be given and at that point you'd be calling anyone who jumped on scum and scum would know that. If you and synd are both town then it really isn't surprising at all that no one jumped on to that idea because it's not like as soon as people agree the 1-for-1 trade becomes sacredly ensrhined in gold with no takesies-backsies. It's not like scum can just say "okay guys we did it the two townies are 1 for 1ing, we win, lets vote them." Because that's not how the dynamic nature of a mafia game works.

[implosion]

honestly my perspective on this game is pretty warped. You're right about that. I don't know how you still care about this game so much, regardless of your alignment. Saying GiF has had more presence than me is just patently absurd and pretends that I haven't done anything this game. Which I have.

[implosion]

I was looking at moi's recent gr interaction reads and also started isoing gr. I think the one read that I'm almost certainly not going to change is moi-town. If that slot is scum then I'm honestly just really impressed with rubixxx's play. MoI's play has been fine but I honestly haven't been putting a lot of effort into reading it and the more I think about how strongly I felt rubixxx was town back when he was here the more I think that's the read that I have to just accept.

Which leaves three possible teams which moi reminded me is actually really interesting given gr's posting like this. Where he says his three top scumreads are those three slots. And that post in particular... it's interesting. And also this one. They make me doubt that it's gr+gif+synd moreso than gr+gif+rask. The way that rask is sort of there as the third option feels like something that would be more likely than him essentially treating his two scumbuddies as the two best lynches and a townie as the third. The way that he talks to rask in the 1260s also feels off, the way that he talks about rask progressing from 1253 to them. It feels like he's still testing the waters to a degree but doesn't want to commit to a second bus. Notably I'm also pretty much ignoring the possibility of synd+rask (it's both unlikely and irrelevant for the purposes of which of the two is a better lynch today).

I think moi being town is the assumption I have to make. And looking more at things makes me feel like it's rask+gif again.

Sorry for not really posting much but I didn't really have much to say until I realized just now that there are so few possible teams if I just assume moi is town and I think it's the safest assumption to make. It's annoying that for i think the fourth time now we have to deal with a slot that is literally just completely absent (first with shortcut, then nino, then kirro and now gif). It's really the biggest thing that's been sapping my motivation because of how I look at games. But I suppose if there's one slot that I don't really strictly need to be here to figure out the game it's that one given that I don't think there's any likely team that doesn't have gif-scum.

[implosion]

Syn, Implosion, why is it that every dead by nightkill town suspects at least one of you?

You really are begging the question here. KTS, RC and Dwlee all almost certainly died because they were claimed PRs. As MoI mentioned BBT was a vig shot. That leaves IAI as the only nightkill that can really meaningfully be speculated. Looking at his ISO, IAI did suspect me; he also suspected rask and called syn town. He didn't really discuss those suspicions much on day two because neither of them were under pressure. You're hilariously mischaracterizing this game if you look at the nightkills and think it's relevant that each of them suspected at least one of the two of us. Even that statement is just so weak, that every townie killed at night suspected at least one of two people. I don't really feel like doing the work for it right now but it's almost certainly true for plenty of pairs of people in any given game just statistically. This line of reasoning both distills the opinions of people that have died into "did they suspect at least one of these two people" which both ignores their read on the other (in this case, IAI having read syn as town) and assumes baselessly that the reason they were killed was for their reads (which almost certainly isn't true of anyone but IAI, and still can't be safely assumed for him as there are a ton of different possible reasons for someone to be NK'd).

Syn and Implosion have some explaining to do regarding why this GR wagon folded.

I mean, I unvoted because the slot was essentially afk and I didn't feel like I had enough information on it to be confident. I don't know what the high-level reason is why the wagon died. Probably largely because of the reason I unvoted. As I've said several times this game has often been defined by the people that are absent. When GR replaced in I thought his immediate posting looked town. I have no idea what you mean by "we have some explaining to do." I'm not accountable for why a wagon died, I'm accountable for my own actions in this game, and I thought the shortcut/taisho wagon looked increasingly bad as time went on and people stayed on it despite a lack of a replacement. I was wrong.

Virtue is reinforcing my scumread on his slot with these arguments. They're so flimsy in terms of the reasoning behind them and yet he's throwing them out as if they aren't. Granted he's said he's listening for "good answers" but those are not good questions. The fact that he looked through NK history and specifically singled out that everyone who died suspected either me or syn makes me think pretty strongly that he was looking for reasons to be able to call me+synd scum, rather than looking for who is scum from a neutral baseline.

[implosion]

prodge

[implosion]

I'm ready to vote Rask. I'll be on right before deadline so I'm not concerned about deadline. I'll wait in case it's syn+titus and MoI wants syn so that they can't blitz.

[implosion]

I really did not enjoy this game very much. When I got my role PM I was excited for a role I hadn't been before but being fake-innoed as a traitor kind of sucks. I had no strong motivation to look town anymore because my lynch was off the table and I couldn't win the game on my own. Ostensibly my only imperative was to make Synd look town and it's not really fun playing in that way of only caring how someone else is perceived. It also isn't fun being more or less forced into a specific tactic because nothing else benefitted my cause (obviously I had no reason whatsoever to bus after GR flipped and only nominal motivation if that before).

Regardless of that, gg.

I am actually ironically probably the most curious about the scum PT because I'm curious how obviously I was the traitor to scum <_<

[implosion]

oh dear god did i really scumslip >___________<

[implosion]

the only thing that I really did that was trying to crumb traitor at all was when I outed kirroha earlier. I was trying to look to scum like I was helping them role fish. I'm actually not sure whether or not I'd have done something similar as town.

[implosion]

Yeeeeeeah.

Most of my play as scum revolves around trying to emulate my play as town. If I were regular scum I certainly would have mentioned the translation in the PT, and I would have figured out what to do in-thread by trying to figure out what I'd have done as town (possibly mentioning that I decoded the crumb but not saying what it was).

Incidentally I actually spent like an hour trying to solve tojam's crumb (I essentially just ran it through a couple of algorithms to see if it was any of the common roles on the wiki) to no avail. I did notice that it was 13 letters long and thus likely vt (which I also would have mentioned in the scum PT if I had been scum).

[implosion]

(Also just to be clear, no hard feelings at all toward either GR or synd, although I do have some towards shortcut/taisho )