Mini 1787: Peruvian Nightclub Mafia (Game End!)


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Post Post #1200 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2016 3:46 pm

Post by Zulfy »

*instrumental*

Votecount 2.06


Zakk (L-3)
: Tyler, Dunnstral, xyzzy
Dunnstral (L-3)
: JFSF, zakk, Zachstralkita
xyzzy
: Toolenduso, Jaack,

Not Voting
:Robert2424, Bins, Keyser Söze

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-05-20 10:00:00)
Last edited by Zulfy on Thu May 12, 2016 9:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #1201 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2016 4:38 pm

Post by Bins »

tomorrow is my birthday don't ruin it by saying mean things about me and wondering where i went
is this where I tell you to swipe right

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Post Post #1202 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2016 4:44 pm

Post by xyzzy »

I actually kinda like toolenduso's response to me in . I don't think there's harm in speculating on information that someone is choosing to conceal and whether that concealed information is good for the town, but taking a strong stance like this feels town to me, even if it's the opposite of how I feel.

anyone who thinks that Dunnstral is a good person to lynch right now is... wrong? not paying any attention? poorly perceiving the entire flow of this game? I guess I'm not surprised by the wagon on me (and I've still not had sufficient time to work on any longer posts with more substantial analysis, but I'm trying), but... I honestly can't fathom believing that the person who's done the most to really critically analyze other players and take meaningful stances on things is scummy, especially when no one has offered any real reason for it other than incredibly reachy things trying to connect him to h_a in ways that don't make any sense. anime jazz hands is the worst possible lynch

I wrote this paragraph like 5 pages ago and now people are seriously leaving my wagon to vote for Dunnstral, which is just... so comically bad. next thing you know someone's gonna vote Tyler and someone's gonna ask why and the response is just gonna be "b/c scum"

here's some thoughts from the last several pages

Jake saying that town doesn't mud sling () is hilariously hypocritical and no one had done as much mud-slinging as he has

- I mean I've definitely said that Jake was scum, although I've been shifting in the "he's comically wrong" direction for a while now

- oh come on are you honestly citing something that happened
after
Dunnstral's 1170 as proof that Dunnstral was wrong? I mean, I agree that 1170 is factually incorrect, but this is an embarrassingly bad argument.

I'm fine with Bins' response re:role fishing in .

- I'm concerned about this post and it doesn't feel town at all.

:o happy birthday Bins
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Post Post #1203 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2016 5:25 pm

Post by zakk »

happy birthday bins

lol xyzzy 1173 is a joke if you didn't catch it. perhaps you're the one who's "not paying attention or is poorly receiving the entire flow of the game" :P
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Post Post #1204 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2016 5:42 pm

Post by toolenduso »

Looks like I got some catching up to do...tomorrow.
In post 1154, Bins wrote:Tyler, I'm waiting for input from Keyser and Tool and xy before I place my vote.
I'm two out of three now. Hope to finish it off and catch up and post and stuff tomorrow.
"Half of the game is figuring out who the scum is. The other half is convincing everyone else that you're right." -- PlaysWithSquirrels, in Newbie 437
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Post Post #1205 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2016 8:54 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Bins wrote:tomorrow is my birthday don't ruin it by saying mean things about me and wondering where i went
No worries I won't wonder where you went :good:

[quote="In post 1203, xyzzy"anime jazz hands[/quote]

;)
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Post Post #1206 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 3:18 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

In post 1203, xyzzy wrote:Jake saying that town doesn't mud sling (1166) is hilariously hypocritical and no one had done as much mud-slinging as he has
I don't fee like I've slung any mud at all cause everything I've said is basically the truth. (With the exception of parts where I made mistakes and later corrected myself)
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Things I've learned.
1. It's just a game, have fun.
2. Don't waste time on people who think you are scum. Ignore them and keep scum hunting.
3. Don't take everything so personal.
4. Tunneling sucks (unfortunately I can't seem to stop)
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Post Post #1207 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 6:37 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

Reading/posting tonight.
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Post Post #1208 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 9:05 am

Post by toolenduso »

In post 1148, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 376, Floof wrote:
In post 375, Jake from State Farm wrote:
In post 373, Floof wrote:He was dodging the game and his only post was a vote on my town read. I think he was just following bandwagons at the time which is scummy. I am pretty confident he will flip scum at this point to be honest.
How could he be following bandwagons when he didn't really join a bandwagon?
The consensus at the time was Jake was scum/null I thought :?
See this is actually productive. Floof slips up here, and doesn't even realize why he's voting h_a
Not sure I'd call that a slip-up...in #373, floof says she "thinks" HA was following bandwagons. The train of thought seemed to be floof basing reasoning on something she thought she'd seen earlier in the game without going back to double-check. Not the greatest way to go about doing things, but not necessarily a slip.
In post 1171, Tyler the Creator wrote:get a load of zakk fanning the flames of a tvt
My thoughts exactly.
In post 1195, Dunnstral wrote:I've been giving bins the benefit of the doubt for a while now. I'm not sure why they think outting who they think is pr is a good idea.
If she's scum trying to out a PR, why say it explicitly in the thread and then say that it's not right? In other words, how does that get the PR to out? It's not like Jake, as a PR, would go "Oh no, you were right I'm a PR."
"Half of the game is figuring out who the scum is. The other half is convincing everyone else that you're right." -- PlaysWithSquirrels, in Newbie 437
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Post Post #1209 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 9:15 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

Well you could argue that his "why not just full claim" comment as an attempt to get me to figure out if I'm actually a pr or somebody who's just confident in his reads. Anyone who knows me though will know I can get pretty hard headed once I make my mind up on my reads.
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1. It's just a game, have fun.
2. Don't waste time on people who think you are scum. Ignore them and keep scum hunting.
3. Don't take everything so personal.
4. Tunneling sucks (unfortunately I can't seem to stop)
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Post Post #1210 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 9:52 am

Post by toolenduso »

In post 1210, Jake from State Farm wrote:Well you could argue that his "why not just full claim" comment as an attempt to get me to figure out if I'm actually a pr or somebody who's just confident in his reads.
Eh...I just can't really wrap my head around the mindset where somebody would think that would work and get the PR to out themselves or drop a big hint or something.

Also I think you missed this question from me earlier:
In post 1008, toolenduso wrote:
In post 867, Jake from State Farm wrote:Would have more fun if people would help me lynch scum but nobody seems to want to
What do you think of HA's interactions with Dunn?
"Half of the game is figuring out who the scum is. The other half is convincing everyone else that you're right." -- PlaysWithSquirrels, in Newbie 437
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Post Post #1211 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 10:05 am

Post by Dunnstral »

Jake from State Farm wrote: I don't fee like I've slung any mud at all cause everything I've said is basically the truth.
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Post Post #1212 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 12:07 pm

Post by Zachstralkita »

In post 1207, Jake from State Farm wrote:
In post 1203, xyzzy wrote:Jake saying that town doesn't mud sling (1166) is hilariously hypocritical and no one had done as much mud-slinging as he has
I don't fee like I've slung any mud at all cause everything I've said is basically the truth. (With the exception of parts where I made mistakes and later corrected myself)
We needa just take out dunn you guys should stop fucking around think this is a game??
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Post Post #1213 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 12:09 pm

Post by zakk »

i'm getting very bored of this game and i haven't even finished reading it.

dunn is like 95.8% noise (i.e. worse than animorpherv1)
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Post Post #1214 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 12:14 pm

Post by toolenduso »

Aight. So. A while ago Tyler asked me what order my scumreads were in, and all I said was that he was third behind xyzzy and zakk.

The reason I did this was because my vote on xyzzy was purely for the purpose of starting a counterwagon, and I didn't want that to influence people's interactions with the wagon. It occurred to me that D2 had been pretty focused on zakk, and I liked the idea of setting up a choice for scum to make between voting xyzzy and voting zakk. Depending on flips, the choices people made could be useful later on.

That being said, I did not expect a sort of mini-wagon on Dunn to get going amid all of it...

Anyway, while I was giving people time to interact with the wagons I decided to go through the ISOs of my top three scumreads, ignoring the interactions with HA (which I've already covered) so I can focus on other parts of their play. Here's that:

Spoiler: xyzzy
-The three posts from #34-#42 are potentially scummy, and people noted it at the time. Xyzzy goes after Dunn in a kind of provocative way, only to keep their vote on Jaack and not really come to a conclusion on Dunn. Xyzzy's explanation in #59 is that the game is still early and they're going to wait to see what Dunn does later in the day. Just seems like it could be scum searching for a good first wagon to build momentum on without wanting to be too central in the push.
-I didn't notice this before, but in #89 (xyzzy's first post-by-post analysis), they talk about at least two of their own posts...a little bizarre, since I would think the point of a post-by-post analysis would be to scumhunt. Adding in a post from themself just seems like filler.
-I noted before that xyzzy's vote on zachstral in #89 was an "easy" vote to make. In #158, xyzzy responds to my point by saying that it's partially just a vote to get Zachstral to talk. The problem with that is that Zachstral had actually been posting quite a bit relative to other players at that point, while floof had only posted once and HA hadn't posted at all.
-The approach to Jake in #174 also bugs me a bit. Jake had naked voted Zachstral, and xyzzy responded by asking Jake about his reasons -- normally might come across as town to me, but xyzzy specified that they were fine with votes on Zachstral. Seems like trying to come across as suspicious while simultaneously trying to keep Jake's vote on Zachstral.
-#286 only adds to that weirdness, because xyzzy says Jake is scum and then says they're going to keep their vote on Zachstral. No mention of the fact that Jake was voting Zachstral, nor the implications for Zachstral's alignment if Jake -- who was voting Zachstral -- was scum.
-Xyzzy agrees with a point from HA that I thought did not make a whole lot of sense in #393.
-The turnaround on HA #447, #561 and #566 does seem kind of...opportunistic, for lack of a better word. It's just that xyzzy didn't pay a ton of attention to HA up until that point, and actually had kept their vote on Zachstral for most of the game. Then when HA gets close to being lynched, Xyzzy reassesses and gets on board with an HA lynch.
-Should be noted that xyzzy comes out against a Robert lynch in #652. If nothing else this tells us that if Xyzzy is scum, scum expected HA to die from the doc claim.
-In #852, xyzzy defends the all-D1 Zachstral vote by saying it seemed more productive than a Jake vote. This doesn't really make a ton of sense to me; I don't remember much of any pressure on Zachstral yesterday.


Overall xyzzy looks worse than I thought. The interactions with HA (from both perspectives) are not good, the posting and voting arcs are a little confusing and possibly event contradictory, and there's a general air of trying not to open themselves up too much.

Spoiler: Floof/zakk
-In #366, Floof unvotes Jaack (she actually got this wrong; she was voting HA at the time and not Jaack) and doesn't revote.
-In #367, she says she is still scumreading HA but doesn't vote. Floof says in #369 that she's waiting to vote, but doesn't say what she's waiting for. Floof votes HA in #373. This was on the same page -- and within a span of about six hours -- as Jaack and Dunn both voted HA. Less than two hours pass between the time Floof says she is going to wait to vote and the time that she votes, and the only posts during that time were insignificant posts from Jake and Dunn. Floof's vote on HA comes as she's explaining her HA scumread to Dunn. This is all pretty weird. What was floof waiting for, and what about it justified her waiting? Why did she then decide not to wait? I am actually wondering if there might have been something going on in scum's daychat that Floof was waiting for, perhaps asking HA about the possibility of bussing or something like that. A more grounded explanation would be that Floof was simply looking around for voting options and decided that HA looked the scummiest (which could explain the behavior regardless of Floof's alignment honestly).
-There's not much else worth commenting on in this ISO that I didn't already cover when I was looking for interactions with HA.
-As zakk, ignoring the posts he made before getting the role pm. In #1013, zakk's catchup post, he sees halfway through that Zulfy announced scum have day talk and he says that maybe scum were coordinating about him posting before he had a role PM. Lean town on this just because it strikes me as a thought process that could be a little hard to reach as scum. As in, "Zulfy says scum have day talk" -> "Oh, as town I wouldn't have known that scum had day talk before I saw that post" -> "As town, I would think that scum would use day talk to coordinate and attack me on my role PM mishap."
-BUT zakk also votes Jaack in that post despite only having read the first four pages of the game. This is a red flag for me. It signals that he is trying to avoid suspicion by looking like he's scumhunting and using his vote, as opposed to genuinely trying to figure out who's scum. It's also something I saw AP do the last time I played with him (Circus Mafia, AP was scum). It was pretty much the only scummy thing I thought AP did in that game until Zulfy got a pseudo-guilty on AP.
-The reasoning in #1017 kind of backs up that idea of scumZakk being overeager to look like he's scumhunting. The reasoning here for Dunn is kind of shallow (Dunn is perhaps a little prone to making lynchbait-type posts) and therefore it looks like Zakk is just looking for the first scummy stuff he can find to pick on.


This slot still looks super scummy, and I don't like zakk trying to get a Dunn wagon going either.

Spoiler: Tyler
-So not only does Tyler vote xyzzy first (non-RVS) in #46, but then he goes on to argue against possible counterwagons in Jaack and Robert in #54 and #61. Which is to say that, while I find the Tyler-HA interactions to be suspicious, he has now consistently gone after both xyzzy and zakk, who I've both found scummier than him anyway, and he bussed HA on top of it. Double bussing is much tougher for me to buy than single bussing.
-Meanwhile, the hopping from xyzzy to ira in #108/109 feels kinda towny to me just based on experience...that is, I've seen town take this approach to scumhunting before, where you kind of just prod the first person who looks scummy to you to get out of RVS, then they do something mildly towny and you're off to the next person to pressure them. It's one of those things that
can
look scummy, and therefore I give minor townpoints to Tyler for doing it anyway because it suggests a genuine scumhunting mindset.
-#536 should be noted I think for flip purposes. Tyler, after setting up floof as a possible lynch if HA flips scum, suddenly finds a post from floof he likes. If Tyler were scum and floof was town, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for Tyler to set up a mislynch and then immediately go back and water it down.


Probably the biggest thing here is that Tyler's voted for HA, floof/zakk and xyzzy. That is tough for me to reconcile with him being scum. His ISO also gave me some townfeels.

VOTE: zakk
"Half of the game is figuring out who the scum is. The other half is convincing everyone else that you're right." -- PlaysWithSquirrels, in Newbie 437
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Post Post #1215 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 12:27 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

zakk wrote:i'm getting very bored of this game and i haven't even finished reading it.

dunn is like 95.8% noise (i.e. worse than animorpherv1)
Nice calculations Einstein, 95.8% huh, care to show your work on that one?

Alright let me make an executive decision as the town leader here: vote zakk. Still feeling much better about this than xyzzy

Yes this game has stagnated;

Bins you seem to be having trouble figuring out where to place your vote. Let me
help
you on this one: vote zakk

Tool I see you've switched to zakk :up:

Keyser I've got no idea where you're at with your thoughts

Robert.... where'd you go.... again

Jaack not sure how you feel about this either
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Post Post #1216 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 12:37 pm

Post by Jaack »

zakk is like my number 4 lynch choice after robert, xyzzy, and bins, but xyzzy is the only one of those that seems to have a chance at happening right now.

Eh whatever. Better to have a vote on a wagon than not
VOTE: zakk
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Post Post #1217 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 12:38 pm

Post by Zachstralkita »

I TRIED TO STOP THIS
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Post Post #1218 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 12:39 pm

Post by zakk »

brb replacing out cause this is stupid
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Post Post #1219 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 12:43 pm

Post by zakk »

i don't have the patience for this at all, plus not having my role pm was moonbeams

bye
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Post Post #1220 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 12:48 pm

Post by Jake from State Farm »

In post 1211, toolenduso wrote:
In post 1210, Jake from State Farm wrote:Well you could argue that his "why not just full claim" comment as an attempt to get me to figure out if I'm actually a pr or somebody who's just confident in his reads.
Eh...I just can't really wrap my head around the mindset where somebody would think that would work and get the PR to out themselves or drop a big hint or something.

Also I think you missed this question from me earlier:
In post 1008, toolenduso wrote:
In post 867, Jake from State Farm wrote:Would have more fun if people would help me lynch scum but nobody seems to want to
What do you think of HA's interactions with Dunn?
Kind of weird, kind of hard to put into words especially without going back and reading them again but I don't think they really reveal much. I think dunn's actions were more telling. But I've covered that
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Things I've learned.
1. It's just a game, have fun.
2. Don't waste time on people who think you are scum. Ignore them and keep scum hunting.
3. Don't take everything so personal.
4. Tunneling sucks (unfortunately I can't seem to stop)
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Post Post #1221 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 12:49 pm

Post by Jake from State Farm »

In post 1217, Jaack wrote:zakk is like my number 4 lynch choice after robert, xyzzy, and bins, but xyzzy is the only one of those that seems to have a chance at happening right now.

Eh whatever. Better to have a vote on a wagon than not
VOTE: zakk
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Dude you really need to remove Robert from your list
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Things I've learned.
1. It's just a game, have fun.
2. Don't waste time on people who think you are scum. Ignore them and keep scum hunting.
3. Don't take everything so personal.
4. Tunneling sucks (unfortunately I can't seem to stop)
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Post Post #1222 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 12:50 pm

Post by Jake from State Farm »

In post 1219, zakk wrote:brb replacing out cause this is stupid
No replacing out is stupid.
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1. It's just a game, have fun.
2. Don't waste time on people who think you are scum. Ignore them and keep scum hunting.
3. Don't take everything so personal.
4. Tunneling sucks (unfortunately I can't seem to stop)
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Post Post #1223 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 12:53 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 1222, Jake from State Farm wrote:
In post 1217, Jaack wrote:zakk is like my number 4 lynch choice after robert, xyzzy, and bins, but xyzzy is the only one of those that seems to have a chance at happening right now.

Eh whatever. Better to have a vote on a wagon than not
VOTE: zakk
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Dude you really need to remove Robert from your list
You have no right to talk while voting me
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Post Post #1224 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2016 12:54 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

though I agree
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