[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
User avatar
PantherPunt
PantherPunt
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
PantherPunt
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3333
Joined: July 20, 2015

Post Post #602 (isolation #0) » Thu May 19, 2016 8:54 am

Post by PantherPunt »

Third time's the charm? I think I finally got to the right place....Although now that I read the OP in the Open queue, it seems that I'm not allowed to pick my own Open set-up to run. That stinks.

I've modded games elsewhere, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't count for anything here.
In post 8733, PantherPunt wrote:Hope this is the right place for this...

I've played in this setup. I'm interesting in running it. Have never modded on here and don't know what needs to be done ahead of that. I get some type of permissions added? I get approval to run the game? I get permission to post in the queue? Or a mod posts it in the queue? Help a new guy out :)
In post 1143, PantherPunt wrote:Considering running my first game on site here. It wouldn't run until at least 6/6.

I'd like to run this at 3d/1d. I'm unaware of the demand and not sure if shorter phase lengths are well-received here, so if the supply is lacking, I can lengthen, but won't go above 6d/1d.

I believe I have full discretion over who I let in the game, yes? I'd just like to check each /in (if I'm unfamiliar) for activity level / patterns of flake history.

Poisonous Mafia - 17er

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Poisoner
2 Vanilla Mafia

1 Town Variable Cop
1 Town Poisoner
1 Town Healer
10 Vanilla Townies


Role PMs:
Spoiler: Mafia Roleblocker
You're the Mafia Roleblocker. Starting N1, you may roleblock one player each night. The roleblocked player will not be able to perform their night action, if any. You will not receive any result for your action. The roleblocked player will not be explicitly informed that they were roleblocked.

You may choose to holster. If you do not submit a target your action will be lost.

Your team is:
X
X
X
X

Spoiler: Mafia Poisoner
You're the Mafia Poisoner. Starting N1, you may poison one player each night. The poisoned player will be announced to the thread at the start of the following day. If not healed, your target will die at the end of the day.

You may choose to holster. If you do not submit a target your action will be lost.

Your team is:
X
X
X
X

Spoiler: Vanilla Mafia
You're a Vanilla Mafia.

You are a villainous cretin; your vote is your weapon.

Your team is:
X
X
X
X

Spoiler: Town Variable Cop
You're the Town Variable Cop. On even nights, including Night 0, you may Affiliation Peek a player of your choosing. This will return [Town] or [Mafia].

On odd nights, you may Role Peek of a player of your choosing. This will return [Role] or [Vanilla], but not affiliation. For example: vanilla mafia and vanilla townies will both return [Vanilla]. The mafia poisoner and town poisoner will both return [Poisoner].

If you are roleblocked, your result will be [No Result].

If you do not submit an action your target will be randed among the remaining townies.

Spoiler: Town Poisoner
You're the Town Poisoner. Starting N1, you may poison one player each night. The poisoned player will be announced to the thread at the start of the following day. If not healed, your target will die at the end of the day.

You may choose to holster. If you do not submit a target your action will be lost.

Spoiler: Town Healer
You're the Town Healer. Starting D2, you may heal one player who was poisoned the night before. If you do not heal a poisoned player, they will die at the end of the day. You must submit your action by 1 hour before end of day. The healed player will be announced as soon as the moderator can process it.

This action is considered a Day action. You may choose to holster. If you do not submit a target your action will be lost.

Spoiler: Vanilla Townie
You're a Vanilla Townie.

You are the soul of the game; your vote is your weapon.
User avatar
PantherPunt
PantherPunt
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
PantherPunt
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3333
Joined: July 20, 2015

Post Post #604 (isolation #1) » Thu May 19, 2016 12:28 pm

Post by PantherPunt »

In post 603, BBmolla wrote:Variable Cop = Rolecop for site consistency sake.

Most effective strategy would be to direct the Town Poisoner I think

Do Mafia have a factional nightkill or is the poisoner their only nightkill?
Mafia do have a factional kill.

Variable cop is not a Rolecop strictly. It's an alignment cop on some nights and a Rolecop on other nights.
User avatar
PantherPunt
PantherPunt
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
PantherPunt
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3333
Joined: July 20, 2015

Post Post #607 (isolation #2) » Fri May 20, 2016 3:12 am

Post by PantherPunt »

In post 605, callforjudgement wrote:Setup is broken, assuming scum don't have a nightkill (there isn't one listed). The Roleblocker can't block the Healer, thus if the town massclaim and direct all actions then the scum will never have any ability to kill or lynch any town power role. Town forces an NL/NK cycle until everyone has been investigated. PEDIT: OK, I see you disclaimed this already; I was writing this post while you were writing yours.

Thus, I'm assuming you meant to give scum a nightkill. At 13:4 town would be relying a lot on their power roles to balance the game, either via claiming to confirm themself or more directly via stopping the scum poison. (Town are in huge trouble if they lose their Healer to an NK, or to a lesser extent, being roleblocked; before that point, directing the Poisoner makes it double day, but as soon as the scum get the ability to kill then town are behind.) Apart from the double day ability (which is genuinely powerful), Town pretty much have only the Variable Cop (who is an even-night-plus-confirmations Cop odd-night Rolecop) for power, with the other roles all cancelling each other out. That said, the Variable Cop is a very powerful role; the setup is clearly scumsided without it (as having any PRs revealed is devastating for town, so they can't really claim-to-confirm) but I'm not great at reviewing Larges and am not sure if this would balance it. The setup is at least clearly very highly swingy, possibly unacceptably so, because all three town PRs represent a major amount of power and the town will be set back a long way by losing any of them to factional nightkill or repeated roleblocks.
I'm not a setup expert, but this game was designed by one.

"Town are in huge trouble in they lose their Healer to a NK" - how so? if they want to slow down the rate of death, they can just have the town poisoner holster. or is there another concern?

Cop has a n0 peek, so at game start there are actually 4 clears, or 3 clears and an outed maf (I personally prefer n0 checks to be randomized town checks, but w/e. not an expert).

It wasn't written in role PM, but maf roleblocker cannot target the same player on consecutive nights (I think that's generally not a thing here; but it is where I play).

I don't think it's that swingy, honestly. You're getting a minimum of 3 game days. (A vanilla 17er at 13:4 has a minimum of 4 game days).
Fastest possible wins:
Town: EOD3 (d1: mafia lynch, d2: mafia lynch and mafia poison, d3: mafia lynch)
Mafia: EOD4 (d1: ML, n1: NK, d2: ML/town poison, n2: NK, d3: ML/town poison, n3: NK, d4: ML and/or town poison)
^^hypothetically, this could actually go faster if healer holsters. or if healer dies and town poisoner keeps poisoning town resulting in 3 town deaths each EOD when there's a ML (this could make game end in mafia victory at EOD3/N3)

Also, you're assuming "ideal" play with town coming to a consensus on poison target. In my experience, you have individuals saying who they'd poison, and you have a poisoner who may just do whatever the f they want, because they trust their own reads over others'/consensus (paranoia that maf are influencing the target, and general hubris inherent in a good percentage of people playing this game).
It's rare that there are "true ideal team players" in a game to the point that ideal play can be employed.

I very much appreciate you taking the time to give your feedback! And would gladly take suggestions for adaptations.
User avatar
PantherPunt
PantherPunt
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
PantherPunt
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3333
Joined: July 20, 2015

Post Post #608 (isolation #3) » Fri May 20, 2016 3:20 am

Post by PantherPunt »

In post 606, BBmolla wrote:Making one of the Mafia a Traitor would make me more comfortable with the setup I think.
I'm not very familiar with how traitors (lone wolf in my vernacular) help adjust balance of a game. I assume it makes the mafia faction weaker, but I'm not quite sure I understand how it does so to the point of being impactful to balance.

At surface level it just seems as though it's more difficult for mafia to influence thread narrative, as they are 3 voices who can coordinate together, rather than 4 voices who can coordinate together.
As a counter-point, I think it is a slight pro for the mafia if/when that traitor dies. Town cannot read their 'spew' for indications on who teammates are, because they didn't know who their teammates were. There is also the chance that they can incorrectly vote a partner that they don't know.

Any theory insight would be greatly appreciated.
Post Reply

Return to “Open Setup Discussion”