Mini 1796 | May 13th - Game over (Tomato Mafia wins)

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Aside from transcend who I mislynched and lost the game when I played with (whoops) and occasionally noticing drmy in discussion forums this is my first time with all of you.
Nice to meet you all!

VOTE: Lowell

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dayvig: Lowell

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I love the concept of "mafia, but not mafia enough to be bother voting".

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O lol oke he was meming rip
So rqs: how many games did u guys play as mafia so far

My scumgames came in a string of 4 when I just joined the forum, all of them in non-newbie games when I was still a very new player.
Lynched day 1 in all 4, of course

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It's one of those things where you either laugh or cry.

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Please, gently.

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Eh, I can't be bothered to seriously address this atm.
A fast wagon here actually has some value though so this isn't completely terrible.

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Do you two know each other?
Is this like a good cop bad cop routine?

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I actually like dunn's aggressiveness but I'm not sure whether he's legitimately tunnelling or pretending and exaggerating in order to get an emotional reaction.

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With the game actually serious though.
VOTE: drmyshotty

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Simply put scum generally don't play with balls like this. Actually sorting this out so early is a mess because I have to consider ego and because town lying for reactions is hard to tell apart from scum lying for malicious purposes.

drmy's jump on is pretty shit though.

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It's a fair question.
Or even if you don't want to think about drmy you can def give your view on dunn and me at this point.

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and the other one appears to be a guy anyway

Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

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Have you read the thread since you last posted?

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Ironically everyone defending me for no reason is more worrying that dunn possibly confbias tunneling here.

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If you're town here you should all really read and try to take a stance on the things that have happened instead of ignoring them so we can actually start this game.

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Zach you've been here and involved for pretty much the whole day can you actually go into your thought processes a bit?

If you're town then 'joking' here when the conversation is getting serious is being unnecessarily obstructive, though it does read as an excuse tbh.

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I'm not being obstructive, there's nothing going on. This is going to be a long day anyway.

This is bullshit.

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VOTE: Zach

I wish I could vote jarjar, drmy and zach all at the same time.

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Actually jar has potential to explain himself rather than zach who appears afraid to.

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Eh, I think I actually am weird in how emotionally detached I play. No normal person would have actually townread dunn in my position and tried to objectively look at the people NOT voting or being nice.

I am somewhat serious in that I genuinely don't care if I were to get mislynched in a day 1 speedwagon because I wouldn't consider it my fault at all, and it'd probably do me a favour rather than playing with than a playerlist that would do that.

LAMIST is either BS or pretty poor analysis because as far as I know you can call anything that looks town LAMIST and say it's scummy for that.

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I am somewhat serious in that I genuinely don't care if I were to get mislynched in a day 1 speedwagon because I wouldn't consider it my fault at all, and it'd probably do me a favour rather than playing with than a playerlist that would do that.

That's not at all what u said though. You said the fast wagon has value. As in: it would be somewhat beneficial for town.

Now you're changing the reasoning to: spite/bitterness.

This looks contrived.

My mind went to the worst case scenario, I was bitter and spiteful. I had to try to be stoic and look at at look for some optimism at that point.
And the truth is technically my reads are best on people who are critiquing me personally in-depth.
People reading one another I don't know the objective truth and have to judge their perspective on what I think is reasonable and I often don't know whether they're right/wrong because I'm second guess my own read and view there. With this since I know the answers and know myself I can actually try to judge if people are being genuine or not in their details far more easily because there aren't those unknowns.
Even if I do get lynched I think I'll leave behind pretty accurate reads if it comes to it, and with that though I can stomach this wagon more easily. I was trying to convince myself of what I said as much as anything when I had said it.

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VOTE: BlueYoshi

This guy tickled me

I don't know, he felt more oblivious than anything else. With age/post count I can see him posting innocently there.

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Whether you're scum or town your posts are objectively anti-town for constantly being half-serious and often about irrelevant shit.

I think at this point continuing and antagonising people after multiple people have pointed it out, rather than trying to cooperate is scummy because clear communication should be your goal as town and hiding in vagueness reduces your accountability.

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that wasnt a scum claim btw i just hate those if ur x then y posts

I'm not sure, I'm not very good at gauging such things, but I believe Jar was joking. If you're scum, keep overreacting to jokes.

He wasn't joking. Zach was casting shade on dunn in a vague way for moving his vote there and jarjar said it wasn't an actual scummy thing that zach was pointing out.

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hmm let me go into depth here well Dunn's entire tone has struck me as nonsensical, he votes Raskol, says he has reasoning, then unvotes him, so it was a reaction test, and through the very short period

that

was going on you determine Raskolnikov town and drmy scum for his hopping on the wagon when drmy's tone was in fact genuine imo, then you vote me for clearly joking and people actually BELIEVE YOU

Can you distinguish a reaction test here from actually developing reads based on new information? Are you saying not enough happened there which could actually change or create a read?

Dunn knows he obviously cant lynch a complete lurker and actually get it so he wants to go for someone in-thread thats why he mentioned blueyoshi out of the blue and said drmy was scummy earlier, and of course he says I'm scum

Do you think dunn is going around yolo trying to force a mislynch 24 hours into the game? How is this a reasonable conclusion?

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Mmm, I have to go bed too now. Today's set a personal record for the fastest time a game's gotten interesting.

FYI I should pop on tomorrow morning but I'll be busy saturday and come back sunday afternoon.

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Alright.
Jarjar interaction with me reads more misunderstanding than scum making things up. Fairly reasonable in his approach and asking me relevant questions plus I like his 128 164 to zach.
Weak TR on scout. I like the way he comes off and his reads are okay for someone admitting they don't have much. The focus on setup analysis and pr spec is concerning but him wanting to wait for the nulls to come in before going too hard is valid.
Transcend's pretty null for now.
I see what people are saying on yoshi triv but it doesn't feel like enough either way to be confident in yet. I do want triv to give reads/explanations considering he's read the game, been here and voted.
Nothing changed on dunn zach read and I probably was overreacting on dr but I still somewhat dislike it.
Tommy's vote is incredibly shallow and if I was going V/LA without having read the thread I probably would NOT vote the leading wagon before doing so.

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VOTE: Tommy
Ideally I'd still vote zach but most people don't seem interested. Leaving this till I get back sunday afternoon.

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I'm 90% sure Tommy just RVS'd even though we've escaped that phase.

From experience, I find it hard to get 1 on 1 interactions with people as schedules we have with our real lives conflict with each others'. By 1 on 1 interactions I don't mean interactions that are done over the course of a couple of days, I mean interactions that are made within seconds of each other.

I would ordinarily buy this but he RVS'd leading wagon and his post indicated he's read at least some of the game.
Overall it looks like garbage especially as he leaves to vla.

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I actually don't find his vote suspicious, maybe at most coincidental. Also, looking at the vote log, Rask was the leading bw. Not defending this guy per se, just not getting the suspicion given to him because it all reads null to me.

Wagon on me is (3) but has has lowell which was an RVS, dunn would be at (3) with tommy though the vote doesn't seem to have counted.
I get where you're coming from but I just don't think he did that without reading, I think it's far more likely he read at least a bit to say that and saw their interaction rather than just scan the playerlist. And with any level of reading that vote (which would be 3rd) with that reasoning as he leaves is sus.

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But yeah I'm off for now.

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I'm back.
Just from the skim I'm voting this, going to proper catchup soon.
VOTE: drmy

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Okay I don't like yoshi's 240.
Don't understand the zach townread and the explanation given is shallow.

Troll play is hard to read sometimes but Zach's looks rather town, seeing as he didn't jump too hard on his own defense when Dunn started pressuring him.

I think he's saying he thinks zach was not over-defensive vs dunn and so he townreads the response. Not-overdefensive = townread isn't strong reasoning to begin with but in this case I wouldn't even agree with the premise.

What I saw was zach voting dunn after dunn pointed out zach's vote was scummy (as opposed to asking why/engaging there), engagement with dunn that's half-serious and pretty much constantly throwing shade on him with the same style but not really committing.
If zach is town than this is just stylistic as opposed to intentionally obstructive/avoidant/non-committal, and I could buy townreading zach for something else, but saying you liked THIS as a response to pressure and townreading for it I don't understand.

Transcend perspective's okay-ish. 241 his thinking about the triv and transcend in terms of lynching as opposed to voting and wagoning at this early point in the game is weird, especially given the tiny amount of info we have now and all the people who haven't been involved yet.

Taken as a whole he's actually not THAT bad because he's more or less consistent with his shallow reasoning (which sounds counter-intuitive but is a pain to explain fully).

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Trivium not voting yoshi after 287 288 290 291 is worth noting. The observations are decent and with a vote for emphasis I'd have liked his posting here, but as-is it's whatever.

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I'm back.
Just from the skim I'm voting this, going to proper catchup soon.
VOTE: drmy

Where is this coming from? Even off a skim?

You play like obvscum. You don't have enough to look at for me to analyse any deeper atm.

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VOTE: BlueYoshi

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I had about twenty minutes to skim the thread. I was so sure at that point that Dunn and Zach were the same person that I pretty much skipped their interactions. 'This guy's filling up pages arguing with himself,' I thought. I probably shouldn't have tried to vote. I was sort of thinking that an uninformed vote is better than none.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense.

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Transcend what's the case on jarjar? He's one of my best townreads.

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VOTE: BlueYoshi

I would however like some commentary along with this vote. Are you just agreeing, or what exactly is going on here?

Commented earlier in 321. Drmy is worse but I don't mind having a yoshi wagon at this point.
Since then the complete rolling-over/appeasement in 371 is concerning, and considering he scumreads you and you're voting him I'd expect him to be less passive here and at least analyse that.

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I don't know what to do, my scumreads aren't really posting and the game in general's gotten so apathetic.

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Can people get off jarjar and vote yoshi with us?

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Actually I am wondering how you aren't scumreading drmy this game.

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Half the game is dead and we need some cooperation to actually get wagons rolling here.
Yoshi isn't my #1 either (drmy is) but we need to kick people and get them squirming.

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Dude he went on zach for the dumbest thing possible (even though I'm not townreading zach) and he just lurks around throwing shade at people.

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zzzzzzzzzzzz

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So I iso'd literally all of Shotty's posts, and you think this is the scummiest candidate? Tell me something I'm missing if you think this slot is scummy. It just looks like you're being opportunistic towards this guy. And then your vote on Blue Yoshi is also ick.

He's been popping in the whole game throwing shade at people and asking lazy questions.
Mostly from a motivational standpoint I see him intentionally being useless/active lurking; no followup on the questions or conclusions drawn or really any pushing.
No evidence to suggest he's figuring the game out and with half of his questions being on fluff and dumb technical-details I really doubt it's a priority either.

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That's not really my play style. I prefer sitting back a tad and observing the machine on a sociological plane. I'll get there. So far I don't have any super strong scum reads, and I don't want to get in the way of them developing.

Okay, this better though for actually outlining his stance a bit.

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You're misunderstanding me if you think him being my top scumread means I'm super confident on him and would definitely lynch him this moment.
The inactivity makes it really difficult to be certain and as of now I really just want to pressure people and get something actually substantial!

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The tone here feels like you're talking to me as if you know I'm town.

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Okay, I did the same thing. I pressured him for being inactive and got nothing out of it. But you're saying he's your top scumread just for being inactive. And I brought up that you said his vote on Zach was bad, and you've said nothing about that.

I said it was a bad vote based on shallow reasoning. I don't like how you make it out as though that's completely unsubstantial.
I'm not entirely sure how I would explain why pointing out that something isn't a scumclaim, isn't a scumclaim, and that voting off of it is weak.
Most of it is I just don't think that's solid reasoning beyond maybe a bit self conscious because scum are marginally more likely to notice that and saying it's a straight up scumclaim is an exaggeration.
Part of it is that zach did things which I actually saw as scummy (already went over) and so drmy not saying anything there but tuning into what feels more like a technical/simple thing here felt like he just wanted a reason to hop on as the wagon was rolling at that point.

Him coming along here and saying he doesn't really have scumreads and implying that vote which he's still using there isn't serious does make it better though. The tone he's been using has come off as serious and I thought he was pretending to be involved with these questions but the straightforwardness and admittance here ends that.

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Here, you also disliked drmy's jump on your OWN BANDWAGON was bad. But nope, gotta lynch him cause he's lurking!!!

Eat rope imo.

You're misunderstanding me if you think him being my top scumread means I'm super confident on him and would definitely lynch him this moment.
The inactivity makes it really difficult to be certain and as of now I really just want to pressure people and get something actually substantial!

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Here, you also disliked drmy's jump on your OWN BANDWAGON was bad. But nope, gotta lynch him cause he's lurking!!!

Eat rope imo.

Interesting your mindset is so into lynching at this point as opposed to wagoning and applying pressure, especially given the current gamestate.

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Not what you said but in how you're choosing to interpret me here.

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currently im thinking about jarjar, trivium and one of the above kiddos that are fighting, raskol/transcend. not sure which one, though. maybe both and its a cool scum on scum fight

lol.

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You can't say that. I've pressured/wagoned people this game. I'm just in a more aggressive mood right now so my tunnel on you is more harsh as opposed to others.

Not what you said but in how you're choosing to interpret me here.

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You misunderstood me for like the third time in a row.
I'm not saying you're that lynch happy (although maybe?) in-of-itself, I'm saying you assuming that I was lynch-happy and not even considering pressure motivation was weird.

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But nope, gotta lynch him cause he's lurking!!!

Was referring to this.

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A minor point either way, though.

Now I'm bored again.

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What's genuinely concerning is that I have too many townreads at this point.

Between transcend and jarjar transcend's way better but I still have trouble seeing the case against jarjar here.
Can someone summarise it without the gut or tone arguments that I can't actually follow?

I think the main point brought up against him is the inspectorscout vote being lazy and/or opportunistic for voting a newbie player with too harsh judgement. That town would consider the newbie being lost there and talking about fluff as a believable stance for this game rather than assuming malicious intent right away. Though a lot of what makes inspector look town is actually tone and it is possible for someone not to pick up on it.
The thing I would have liked is if he did more of a pressure vote there instead of seeming so quick to decide on inspector scum, but as it is inspector's one of my weaker townreads and I don't even know if he's actually wrong for certain here.

Jarjar reasoning and justification for votes isn't bad though, and it's just that him feeling quick to solidify his reads and happening to scumread what feel like the easier targets at convenient times (could be coincidental tho) cast a bit of doubt here. If he can reasonably fake realistic vote-reasoning then the other things like his motivation and positioning line up enough that he COULD be scum but what I've heard from trans/bacde directly isn't that convincing.

Though jarjar's response to bacde grilling him was okay (liked the bacde interrogation here) I do notice something around this. Earlier jarjar made it clear he wasn't afraid of the people scumreading him and that it was probably 1t 1s; later it feels like he gets more appeasing towards you two and especially 574 582 setting up a compromise wagon with the people on him feels like settling too quickly. Let's see how he reacts to the inspector vote though.

Overall very mixed but still leaning town, though if it is me transcend jarjar all town this game I can already see we're going to have a lot of problems.

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VOTE: drmyshot
full readslist please!

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how are 3 townreads too many?

Moreso in general I'm having a lot harder time seeing scum here than usual. Before there was some leeway from the inactives but tommy bacde are good and then alpaca replaces the yoshi slot and towns it out.
If you realize that at least one of your reads has to be wrong for the game to make sense it makes any degree of confidence difficult.

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Speaking of which you should post scumreads and read the game nnn

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VOTE: drmyshot
full readslist please!

You must not read, or you are setting me up here, but regardless no.

I read what you said and I don't care.

Set aside an hour, put down your phone and go into your reads this game.

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Zachstral

Actually can you go into this townread a bit?

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ಠ_ಠ

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VOTE: Tommy

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Hi!

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Yup!~

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How could you ever have doubted me?

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away till sunday night or monday

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Was gonna leave catchup for tomorrow but not much happened I think.

Transcend unvoting scumread for day off would normally be weird but he's obvtowned this game and there was that quickhammer

Inspectorscout misrepping trivium there; townreading someone and questioning someone else townreading them is NOT contradictory or scummy unless done in a scummy manner. I think scout uses this as lazy vote justification but what feels weird is that it sounds confident and not like the scout who was giving newbtown vibes earlier. Attacking the townslip feels like exaggeration; I would say hey this is probably not a townslip, I wouldn't go the other way and say it's 100% faked impossible to be a townslip. Looking back scout hates trivium though so this might be tunnelling or confbiasing from him, admittedly not paid scout much attention this game. Townread triv tho so don't want this push succeeding.

Still hate all the lamist reasoning I'm seeing everywhere.

Tommy revisit
Tommy's super reserved and argues well enough that he'd have to be half decent scum to pull this play off, in answering the questions given to him he's okay. 773 assigning reasoning to my naked vote is humorous, it also potentially shows hes not paying attention to me (iow trying to read me) but mainly it was funny reading. What I really don't like is that he plays like a wuss and hasn't voted since d1, most of his energy is used defensively but I don't feel like he's trying too hard to read the people he's talking to either. His logic is fine and I can't point out specific scummy posts but I don't see town-impetus/drive or anything to townread. Finds kush at fault (not an unreasonable thing to wagon someone for!); doesn't push or vote there, waiting for kush to get back but cmon do something! Most people would complain at kush not coming, be annoyed at their lack of productivity in this situation, probably push a secondary scumread in the meanwhile or just do something other than answer questions and appear completely unfazed.
Funnily enough when I initially voted tommy today I didn't feel any scumreads strongly in the game and was just sheeping transcend onto a null but I think he's scum now.

Zachs similar in playing like a wuss and hes focusing on scout way more than tommy right now, but not even pressuring/pushing there in-as-much-as casting(throwing?) shade like he did to dunn earlier, reads cowardly. I feel like zach/tommy is distancing/bussing because neither seem to really give a fuck in their exchange and their priority feeling directed elsewhere. The "personality" out for zach's scum stuff makes feeling 100% on this read annoying though and I want to push other scummy just to avoid dealing with this headache.

Probably have to revisit a lot of day 1 reads too tomorrow though most of them seem afk anyways. I'm really tired and this was more tonal intuitive than usual but transcend I want you to respond to this stuff since I kind-of maybe sort-of half respect you at this point. Damn this way took too long.

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If I catch third scum tomorrow can mafia pls surrender

Don't worry no one will judge it as playing against wincon... probably

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Hmm. I had an hour on Saturday morning, and I was quite pleased with my progress there: I got a solid townread on Trivium. I know you're not so convinced about the slip, so I guess that holds less weight for you. Since then, I've only really had time to check in quickly and react to what others are saying. If I'd had longer, I probably would have done a profile on Transcend or Lowell. When you're under attack, there's always less time for analysis. But with several players yet to post in day 2, I think it's a bit early to vote someone because "do something". As I've said, I think our first order of the day is to analyse the hammer, and I reckon it's somewhat previous to vote before we've done that.

You don't scumread any of the actives then?
Ugh and why does it feel like you're appeasing me here. I admitted to blind voting you as sheeping earlier and scumread you now from mostly gut and you don't have any problem with that? Nothing you want to point out about it, nothing you want to ask? Like just assuming I'm wrong/misunderstood as opposed to malicious probably shouldn't happen if you're town unless you're really confident with your read on me.

But even here it's a logical a response I can't honestly fault any of the points... why is this game so difficult.

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I'm still cool with lynching JarJar based on yesterday but does anyone want to compromise on nnn? Because I'm not feeling a scout lynch and it looks like its all the same people on scout/jarjar respectively

Unless anyone has any new arguments based on today as to why we should lynch scout, again I haven't really seen today stuff

This is an ultra flexible stance that allows him to do any of these lynches. And why would you suggest diverting from your own wagon onto your own scumread (jarjar) which is going somewhere ??

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Those were on a previous page so there is BOTD.
Tbh I don't even fault the quickhammer considering how drmy looked but the lurking and refusing to play the game is annoying. Odds are he's getting replaced though so ehh.

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Okay with tommy's response, though he NEEDS to play more aggressively and impact the game more because he seems actually decent with analysis.
Still think scout jar is probably tvt though it looks like pretty much nobody agrees with me there (maybe dunn if he were alive).

VOTE: Lowell

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alpaca and raskol, you need to do better. this is not a good use of your time. jarjar, you're fine. someday our wincons will align and we can be friends.

lol

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V/LA till sunday.
I'd lynch lowell or tommy (maybe zach?) and I want bacde to post more.

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prodge

please unvote infinity

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VOTE: Alpaca

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This game is confusing and I just want blood now.

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What happened to the lowell wagon

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please unvote infinity

Explain please

He's gucci.

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Alpaca what are your current scumreads?
You went on lowell saying kush was your 2nd but went off lowell and idk where you are now.

Infinity is mostly gut and his view on triv is exactly what I used to think about him day 1.

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Yes.

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Okay if I HAD to choose between scout and jarjar I would lynch scout because of the way he townreads people like hes giving out free candy. But I don't want either of them.

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I want to go back to lowell.

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Triviums town because hes super committed and zoned in onto his scumreads and his pushes are honest

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All I have is townreads on half the playerbase and still garbage weak poe when it comes to the rest. I want it to me lategame already so there's less people

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I apologize if my laziness gets me wastes our resources though

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He really isn't vote hopping compared to like everyone else and he's solidly anti scout. Jarjar scum has been pushed by over half the game and a substantial amount are power towns like trans so having that driven into you day after day will wear you down if you're not egotistical like me and assume everyones wrong.

I don't care if you townread me I just want to get to tomorrow because I'm hoping for some clarity then tbh.

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okay never crumbing again

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man I really thought lowell was scum this game