Mini 1796 | May 13th - Game over (Tomato Mafia wins)

[Transcend]

You also have to keep in mind that mathematically it doesn't make sense. Scum are in the minority so at a glance, 10 vs. 3 looks townsided. Now keep in mind every time scum survive a lynch they eliminate (assuming no assassin/vig power from either alignment and assuming the kill goes through eg. no RB, doc save, hit bp etc.) two town numbers with the power of lynch and kill. Say hypothetically town gets lynched and one town dies at night. The mafia now sit in an 8 vs. 3 scenario. The numbers go down fast since mafia can easily eliminate numbers. Keep in mind that while scum are in the minority, they have advantages that town don't have which are just part of the game. For instance, they're an informed minority who know each others' identities and roles.

TL;DR 10-3 is balanced.

[Transcend]

As for epicmafia, it's a whole different ballgame. The ranked setups range from 7-10 people and the setup is always open. The closest you'll get to closed is you'll get a maximum of six possible setups with different roles in them. And as a regular ranked EM player, there's quite a few day start setups. Sometimes, scum don't even know who their partners are if the game starts on day, unless there's a dawn mode, where all roles have a n1 action/meeting but they are nullified. Anyways, usually mafia's goal is to hit pr's at night as opposed to hitting towny people, like people do here. The reason is, the town prs are usually clear if they're uncc'd and are a dependable source. Town can claim pr on this website, but their claim isn't instantly credible due to the setup being closed. And keep in mind a pr can be uncc'd and still be mafia since there's HUNDREDS of power roles in this fun little game we all call mafia.

[inspectorscout]

You are right, but i cant imagine this town without PR, so that means, like someone said, that mafia should have a PR too
Im thinking about a godfather-cop-doctor-RB thing but oh well its too early to discuss that unless someone wants to discuss this with me xd
I kinda have to study rn and i cant contribute to the dunn-trancend discussion because i have too many nulls in my list, so ill come back when smth interesting happens (like those lurkers finally talking)

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: Raskol

Please, gently.

Looked bad on first read - Keeping in mind that Raskol is almost always lynched day 1 the reaction makes a lot more sense considering I started going hard page 1

Eh, I can't be bothered to seriously address this atm.
A fast wagon here actually has some value though so this isn't completely terrible.

Well the wagon does have value but maybe apathetic isn't how you want to react
Makes sense though if you always get day 1 lynched so I'm around null on this

I actually like dunn's aggressiveness but I'm not sure whether he's legitimately tunnelling or pretending and exaggerating in order to get an emotional reaction.

I think this is a good post and a good reaction to what was happening (bonus points for townreading me)

Simply put scum generally don't play with balls like this. Actually sorting this out so early is a mess because I have to consider ego and because town lying for reactions is hard to tell apart from scum lying for malicious purposes.

drmy's jump on is pretty shit though.

Another post that I liked - pointing out drmy here is good too (though I don't quite agree with them being scum yet)

It's a fair question.
Or even if you don't want to think about drmy you can def give your view on dunn and me at this point.

I agree with this post

Have you read the thread since you last posted?

I like this directed at Blue Yoshi

Ironically everyone defending me for no reason is more worrying that dunn possibly confbias tunneling here.

I agree with this and also like it. (Bonus points for townreading me)

Zach you've been here and involved for pretty much the whole day can you actually go into your thought processes a bit?

If you're town then 'joking' here when the conversation is getting serious is being unnecessarily obstructive, though it does read as an excuse tbh.

Towny line of thought towards Zach (he won't read this by the way)

I'm not being obstructive, there's nothing going on. This is going to be a long day anyway.

This is bullshit.

yes

Actually jar has potential to explain himself rather than zach who appears afraid to.

I am somewhat serious in that I genuinely don't care if I were to get mislynched in a day 1 speedwagon because I wouldn't consider it my fault at all, and it'd probably do me a favour rather than playing with than a playerlist that would do that.

That's not at all what u said though. You said the fast wagon has value. As in: it would be somewhat beneficial for town.

Now you're changing the reasoning to: spite/bitterness.

This looks contrived.

My mind went to the worst case scenario, I was bitter and spiteful. I had to try to be stoic and look at at look for some optimism at that point.
And the truth is technically my reads are best on people who are critiquing me personally in-depth.
People reading one another I don't know the objective truth and have to judge their perspective on what I think is reasonable and I often don't know whether they're right/wrong because I'm second guess my own read and view there. With this since I know the answers and know myself I can actually try to judge if people are being genuine or not in their details far more easily because there aren't those unknowns.
Even if I do get lynched I think I'll leave behind pretty accurate reads if it comes to it, and with that though I can stomach this wagon more easily. I was trying to convince myself of what I said as much as anything when I had said it.

I liked this post

that wasnt a scum claim btw i just hate those if ur x then y posts

I'm not sure, I'm not very good at gauging such things, but I believe Jar was joking. If you're scum, keep overreacting to jokes.

He wasn't joking. Zach was casting shade on dunn in a vague way for moving his vote there and jarjar said it wasn't an actual scummy thing that zach was pointing out.

hmm let me go into depth here well Dunn's entire tone has struck me as nonsensical, he votes Raskol, says he has reasoning, then unvotes him, so it was a reaction test, and through the very short period

that

was going on you determine Raskolnikov town and drmy scum for his hopping on the wagon when drmy's tone was in fact genuine imo, then you vote me for clearly joking and people actually BELIEVE YOU

Can you distinguish a reaction test here from actually developing reads based on new information? Are you saying not enough happened there which could actually change or create a read?

Dunn knows he obviously cant lynch a complete lurker and actually get it so he wants to go for someone in-thread thats why he mentioned blueyoshi out of the blue and said drmy was scummy earlier, and of course he says I'm scum

Do you think dunn is going around yolo trying to force a mislynch 24 hours into the game? How is this a reasonable conclusion?

I liked these too.

Overall I'd say I've got a good townread on Raskol

So basically that means as the town leader I'm saying that everyone needs to stop voting for them

[inspectorscout]

Town+mafia with power role to rebalance, also nice ninja
Ok double ninja

[Transcend]

BTW if we're announcing preliminary townreads, I'll announce my first townread on inspector.

[nnn_thekushmountains]

Yo jar jar what up bro

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: Zachstral

[Transcend]

The Bert makes me laugh legit every time.

[inspectorscout]

BTW if we're announcing preliminary townreads, I'll announce my first townread on inspector.

If i may ask, why are you townreading me? (I dont take townreads for granted cuz if theyre unsupported, both the guy who posted them and me are fucked then)

@thekushmountains what are your reads so far?

[Transcend]

I like your posts. If you want, I can make a long post like Dunnstral and say "I like this post" after every quote. I personally hope this suffices.

[inspectorscout]

Fair enough
It does for now, you cant have enough info yet to put down clear reasons, but i will ask you this question again later on, i hate being read as something by just 'i like ur posts'

[Tommy]

Mod, I'm V/LA till Monday evening UK time I'm afraid.

I'm pretty sure the Strals are sock puppets. Not really sure what to do about that. If they're on different teams, they're unlikely to play to their win condition.

Noted

[Tommy]

*VOTE: Dunnstral*

[Transcend]

What......

[Transcend]

Fair enough
It does for now, you cant have enough info yet to put down clear reasons, but i will ask you this question again later on, i hate being read as something by just 'i like ur posts'

Your tone is towny. Plus I don't think you're forcing tells, all the tells you've given appear genuine. If you really want me to go into specifics, I can. But overall I don't see anything scummy about you (after your vote on Zach ofc).

[Transcend]

I literally cannot tell if Tommy's vote was RVS and he hasn't read the game at all or if he has read the game and acknowledged the Dunn-Zach interactions because that was the most ridiculous reason I've seen someone getting voted for in pretty much my entire life.

[inspectorscout]

Fair enough
It does for now, you cant have enough info yet to put down clear reasons, but i will ask you this question again later on, i hate being read as something by just 'i like ur posts'

Your tone is towny. Plus I don't think you're forcing tells, all the tells you've given appear genuine. If you really want me to go into specifics, I can. But overall I don't see anything scummy about you (after your vote on Zach ofc).

Tbh i already clarified my vote: at this point i just want info, and either i vote for lurkers that probably wont even notice, or i vote for the people that seem suspicious for some reason, in this case his meming. I cant build a case around that, but i can build a case about his reply on my votr

[Transcend]

I know

[inspectorscout]

I really want to ask tommy about his vote and general reads but v/la gg
Are games here always dead?

[Raskolnikov]

Alright.
Jarjar interaction with me reads more misunderstanding than scum making things up. Fairly reasonable in his approach and asking me relevant questions plus I like his 128 164 to zach.
Weak TR on scout. I like the way he comes off and his reads are okay for someone admitting they don't have much. The focus on setup analysis and pr spec is concerning but him wanting to wait for the nulls to come in before going too hard is valid.
Transcend's pretty null for now.
I see what people are saying on yoshi triv but it doesn't feel like enough either way to be confident in yet. I do want triv to give reads/explanations considering he's read the game, been here and voted.
Nothing changed on dunn zach read and I probably was overreacting on dr but I still somewhat dislike it.
Tommy's vote is incredibly shallow and if I was going V/LA without having read the thread I probably would NOT vote the leading wagon before doing so.

[Transcend]

I'm 90% sure Tommy just RVS'd even though we've escaped that phase.

From experience, I find it hard to get 1 on 1 interactions with people as schedules we have with our real lives conflict with each others'. By 1 on 1 interactions I don't mean interactions that are done over the course of a couple of days, I mean interactions that are made within seconds of each other.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Tommy
Ideally I'd still vote zach but most people don't seem interested. Leaving this till I get back sunday afternoon.

[Raskolnikov]

I'm 90% sure Tommy just RVS'd even though we've escaped that phase.

From experience, I find it hard to get 1 on 1 interactions with people as schedules we have with our real lives conflict with each others'. By 1 on 1 interactions I don't mean interactions that are done over the course of a couple of days, I mean interactions that are made within seconds of each other.

I would ordinarily buy this but he RVS'd leading wagon and his post indicated he's read at least some of the game.
Overall it looks like garbage especially as he leaves to vla.

[Transcend]

I mean his vote, in hindsight, looks shitty, but there's a chance he literally clicked the thread, looked at playerlist, didn't read a word, and voted someone randomly. I have no idea what his intentions were with his vote, and won't know until Monday.