Do you believe in evolution?

[Yosarian2]

So, what's the difference between God guiding evolution on a day-to-day basis, and God specifically designing the Universe in such a way that, in his omniscience, he knew that we would evolve and come into existance exactally the way we did?

If you impinge upon free will, I guess there's no problem.

What's free will have to do with it? This is all stuff that happened before there were any human beings, for the most part.

[Thesp]

Wow. Calling out people who think Revelation wasn't written by the same guy as wrote the fourth gospel. That's hardcore.

And Moses didn't write all 5 books of the Pentateuch! And Paul didn't write all the letters that say they were from Paul!

[Kelly Chen]

Wait a minute, you're saying Moses didn't write all 5 of them or that he did?

[Yosarian2]

Wait a minute, you're saying Moses didn't write all 5 of them or that he did?

He didn't.

[Kelly Chen]

so to clarify, this is Thesp's position
1. author of Revelation = author of the fourth gospel
2. Moses didn't write all 5 books of the Torah
3. Paul didn't write all those letters

If that's right... do you see what is standing out for me here... It's #1.

[Foolster41]

I think he was being sarcastic.

I'm not as sure about what you're saying about number 3. I had thought it was pretty well established that John (who wrote the book of John) after being exiled to Patmos (Legendz say after surviving being boiled alive, not sure how comfirmable that is) wrote Revelation. Or are you saying simply it doesn't matter? or does matter? (I'm not sure if it does or doesn't myself either way)

[Thesp]

so to clarify, this is Thesp's position
1. author of Revelation = author of the fourth gospel
2. Moses didn't write all 5 books of the Torah
3. Paul didn't write all those letters

If that's right... do you see what is standing out for me here... It's #1.

Sorry if I wasn't clear - I think good schalorship has shown #1 is

not

the case - The Gospel According to John and The Revelation According to John are in fact two different John's. It is significant to the readon of both books, though, as to if they are the same author or not. (You learn much more out of Luke-Acts when you see them as a unified unit by the same author.)

[Kelly Chen]

Ok, thanks Thesp. I misunderstood you.

Foolster, in my opinion the safest bet is that none of the gospels were written by apostles (at least not in the form in which they arrive to us). I think I would find it easier to believe that Revelation was written by the apostle John, than that the fourth gospel was.

[Andycyca]

Is there any country in the world, other than the United States, where this is a topic of debate?

It's funny, but based on what I've seen, yes (and no, I'm not from the US)

[Alasdair]

why the shit are you guys wandering onto talking about the Bible

I thought it was on the scientific theory of evolution for the biodiversity of life on this planet and the origin of species

if you disagree with that then you're as silly as not agreeing with the theory of gravity, the theory of atoms, or the theory of germs

As somebody who has enough faith to believe in God while still accepting science, I challenge an evolution denier (I'd call them creationists but really that'd imply they had a belief system that made sense, that'd be like calling holocaust-deniers their own special name for their wacky belief system)

[Aisar]

why the shit are you guys wandering onto talking about the Bible

I thought it was on the scientific theory of evolution for the biodiversity of life on this planet and the origin of species

if you disagree with that then you're as silly as not agreeing with the theory of gravity, the theory of atoms, or the theory of germs

As somebody who has enough faith to believe in God while still accepting science, I challenge an evolution denier (I'd call them creationists but really that'd imply they had a belief system that made sense, that'd be like calling holocaust-deniers their own special name for their belief system)

No you're wrong evolution is real but we didn't come from STINKING MONKEYS !

[Adele]

That's a really immature approach to the matter, Alasdair. Baldly calling folk "silly" and calling it the same as gravit, atoms or germs is absurd, though; you are ignoring the fact that erstwhile accepted scientific theories have fallen out of vogue.

Do you believe in Steady State Theory? The Electromagnetic Ether?
How about superstring theory, for something that may be seen as more "true" than gravity as you conceive it some way down the line?

And, I gotta say, I don't think it's an impressive "look at me!" thing to manage to believe something that's not true at the same time as blindly saying whatever your fifth grade science teacher told you.

[IH]

why the shit are you guys wandering onto talking about the Bible

I thought it was on the scientific theory of evolution for the biodiversity of life on this planet and the origin of species

if you disagree with that then you're as silly as not agreeing with the theory of gravity, the theory of atoms, or the theory of germs

As somebody who has enough faith to believe in God while still accepting science, I challenge an evolution denier (I'd call them creationists but really that'd imply they had a belief system that made sense, that'd be like calling holocaust-deniers their own special name for their wacky belief system)

So you prefer to not interpret the Bible literally, and therefore not interpret the book of Genesis literally, either by citing the verse of the day=1000 years, or just inserting an arbitrary gap between Gensis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2

Or do you prefer to ignore the entire book of Genesis?

Just curious.

[Alasdair]

Cool, knowledge is refined and improved over time, thanks for the input!

Watch me do this too

Do you believe in Odin? Zeus? Thor? No? They fell out of favour huh.

I'm going to toss this silly Bible out, who believes in that shit, could be gone tomorrow

[TheNinthLayer]

Yeah guys evolution doesn't exist, oh yeah and there were never any dinosaurs, they were made up by scientists trying to trick the world for their evil purposes, or more likely planted in the soil by God to test your faith. Heathens.

[Alasdair]

why the shit are you guys wandering onto talking about the Bible

I thought it was on the scientific theory of evolution for the biodiversity of life on this planet and the origin of species

if you disagree with that then you're as silly as not agreeing with the theory of gravity, the theory of atoms, or the theory of germs

As somebody who has enough faith to believe in God while still accepting science, I challenge an evolution denier (I'd call them creationists but really that'd imply they had a belief system that made sense, that'd be like calling holocaust-deniers their own special name for their wacky belief system)

So you prefer to not interpret the Bible literally, and therefore not interpret the book of Genesis literally, either by citing the verse of the day=1000 years, or just inserting an arbitrary gap between Gensis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2

Or do you prefer to ignore the entire book of Genesis?

Just curious.

Genesis isn't meant to be taken literally, if you take the Bible literally you're going to have a hard time understanding that Jesus guy, he keeps on going off about wacky stories that don't relate to the matter!

But I prefer to talk about science, so I'd like Adele to know how we want this approach to go. Would you like me to present the evidence for evolutionary theory to you, Adele, or would you like to shoot it down? Who wants to take on defense?

[TheNinthLayer]

I will champion creationism, after all we weren't descended from dirty monkeys!

Don't believe what your third grade teacher told you, fight the power!

Alasdair if you believe in evolution, how do you explain the FACT that the earth is only 6000 years old?

-Ninth

[Alasdair]

Supernova 1987 is a Supernova that we can use simple trigonometry to find is 168 K light years away. First the supernova lit up, then the gas rings around them lit up about 8 months later. Simple trig to figure out how many light years it is away. The cool thing about this is that it doesn't even depend on the speed of light

So how can there be light 168 K years old in a 6K year old universe?

[vollkan]

why the shit are you guys wandering onto talking about the Bible

I thought it was on the scientific theory of evolution for the biodiversity of life on this planet and the origin of species

if you disagree with that then you're as silly as not agreeing with the theory of gravity, the theory of atoms, or the theory of germs

As somebody who has enough faith to believe in God while still accepting science, I challenge an evolution denier (I'd call them creationists but really that'd imply they had a belief system that made sense, that'd be like calling holocaust-deniers their own special name for their wacky belief system)

I'm curious, how do you reconcile science with your faith? How do you consider your religious belief scientific in light of the fact that faith is wholly irrational (see the now defunct God Thread, which I think this may prompt a resurrection of)?

No you're wrong evolution is real but we didn't come from STINKING MONKEYS !

We did not come from monkeys. Monkeys are a contemporary evolved species. We came from, and still are, apes.

Cool, knowledge is refined and improved over time, thanks for the input!

Watch me do this too

Do you believe in Odin? Zeus? Thor? No? They fell out of favour huh.

I'm going to toss this silly Bible out, who believes in that shit, could be gone tomorrow

*blink* I thought you said you believed in god?

[Adele]

It's fun being completely misunderstood!

reread my post and you'll see I'm clearly not a Christian.
Read all my posts in this thread and you'll see where I stand on Evolution.

However, you clearly don't understand what science

is

, since the word "tentative" is apparently not part of your vocabulary. The fact is that there are scientists who don't agree with the "theory of gravity" (if you are referring to the Newtonian construct, it'd be most; if Einsteinian, fewer, but still plenty). The word for those people is not "silly" but "potentially groundbreaking".

You are dogmatic in your approach to this matter, and condescending besides. It makes me think that your understanding of the subject is limited to the first - or perhaps second - round of "lies to children" you got fed. Newsflash: Reality is more complex and elegant than is dreamed of in your philosophy.

[Mert]

Trap!

[vollkan]

Alasdair if you believe in evolution, how do you explain the FACT that the earth is only 6000 years old?

I don't need to explain that "FACT" because it is a complete falsehood. The very fact you are raising it undermines your credibility from the get-go.

[Xdaamno]

Supernova 1987 is a Supernova that we can use simple trigonometry to find is 168 K light years away. First the supernova lit up, then the gas rings around them lit up about 8 months later. Simple trig to figure out how many light years it is away. The cool thing about this is that it doesn't even depend on the speed of light

So how can there be light 168 K years old in a 6K year old universe?

Despite the fact he's wrong anyway, he said 'earth', not 'universe'.

EDIT: To make sure I don't look like an idiot, yes, I 'got' it :/

[Adele]

Alasdair if you believe in evolution, how do you explain the FACT that the earth is only 6000 years old?

I don't need to explain that "FACT" because it is a complete falsehood. The very fact you are raising it undermines your credibility from the get-go.

Vollkan just got successfully trolled.

I think TheNinthLayer deserves a round of applause!

[Alasdair]

dude reading's for fags, I'm here to fuck with Creationists, they really are on the same level as people who don't accept the theory of gravity so WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE MORONS

also where are these scientists who don't agree with the theory of gravity I hope they have good handholds otherwise earth will throw them off and that would be rather sad