Newbie 1714: Mafia Thread

[Raskolnikov]

This is going to be difficult. Ranger's a good town player and as scum I'm pretty bad.

[Raskolnikov]

I'm going to try to plan things out a bit...

[Raskolnikov]

Okay.
Ranger is scary. F-oh-x is really good for a newbie. Beeboy's experienced though I don't know if he's good.
Rest idk. These three cooperating will be very bad if it happens though I think.

[Raskolnikov]

I don't know how different IC ranger is from regular ranger. I see regular ranger as pretty vague and terse with her readslist style and here I'd want town to have an air of paranoia surrounding her.
I expect f-oh-x to obvtown this game if not early than eventually so I don't want to think about mislynch there.
Beeboy I have seen mislynched in the past for not taking the game that seriously but I'm not sure if he'll tryhard here or not.

[Raskolnikov]

I'm going to poke and marginally suspect ranger in the early-midgame d1 and then return to it with an 'evaluation' after it's later in the day. The goal here being to get her to town or nullread me until we nightkill her.
I think I'll approach and possibly push beeboy midgame, or maybe start in rvs if the opportunity presents itself.
Odds are one of the newbies will be the lynch at the end of the day and that is a risk if it ends up being you.

[Raskolnikov]

Do you think you're more a tone player or analytical?

[Raskolnikov]

My advice is not to play afraid. Activity is good and you want to be around the middle in terms of postcount here.
Try not to over-exaggerate or stretch too hard in your reads esp "scumreads" early on. People generally townread indecisiveness and the emotional vibes from people who sounds like they feel lost or clueless in their reads.
But if you feel like you have a good enough reason to "scumread" someone don't be afraid to vote them either.

[Raskolnikov]

I recommend
1. display paranoia onto one of the experienced players (possibly later in the day a bit of secondary suspicion for one of the others)
2. find someone you think doesn't make sense and vote them, especially if its one of players I mentioned
3. fake the read-"development"; if they explain themselves well you should admit that. Try not to back-off too easily but also don't stick around too long/needlessly if they did a really good job defending.
4. if possible end the push by saying you still feel uncomfortable or paranoid about them but you don't have anything logically to justify it, so you have them null or something
5. revisit it and comment at a later point just to show you haven't forgotten that you're supposed to care about said person
6. at midday/laterday try to work with your "townreads" and co-operate with what they're doing. Co operation and compromising for the lynch should be liked by them I think.

Be careful because I will have to push and/or vote you if you do something I think is 'scummy' to try to not leave behind a partner association.

[Raskolnikov]

You don't have to be completely calm though, if you think you can fake panic and distress from being unjustly wagoned you can do that as well.
I think in terms of emotions you actually want to be pretty honest because people townread "these emotions are genuine" and they forget that scum can genuinely be upset too.

It's more than likely a vote or two WILL go your way this game but it's honestly more of a test people will want you to pass/respond well to than them wanting to lynch you even if they pretend otherwise.

[Raskolnikov]

I'm linking a PT that has advice in it from a player I really respect, from a completed game of mine
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=66015

What nacho says I think is great, especially about fighting.

Although the thing about roleblocker and claiming isn't going to apply here since we're goon/goon.
I think in this case if you're l-1 late in the day and you think you'll get lynched anyways you should claim tracker so I know who to target
but if you think you can survive and that people can swing to another lynch claiming VT gives you a chance at people reconsidering

[Raskolnikov]

It'll start when most people have confirmed, which will be soon.

[Raskolnikov]

I'm personally going to try to do is follow a "mindset" at any given time.
Early on it'll be the "I have no clue" mindset and without anything substantial to fake a scumread on I'll to express my feelings for not having scumreads and lightly poke people to try to get them.
Then if there's something interesting I'll go into to "interested/exploring" where I'm trying to feel out the so-called scumread and ask questions/acquire more information there.
After a while of that I'll try to fake make conclusions from it, and I'll try to be very honest and measured instead of pretending something is way more scummy than it actually is so people townread my honesty there.
and then I'll go back to "I have no clue/lost" and rinse and repeat.

I think I won't even have to lie much if I just play like a townie in a game full of townies and feel sad for not having major things to scumread and express frustration in not being confident enough in any lynch later in the day.

[Raskolnikov]

The last thing I'll say is that you want to be inquisitive or "productive" in other words like you are town and you're trying at any given point to be doing something rather than just existing.

If you have a "scumread" you want to pretend to get more information to change your "confidence" in it rather than convincing everyone else they're scum or to lynch them etc.
If you backed off a read and they said a lot and new information was created you want to "re-evaluate" based on that. Remember if someone is or was your main focus of attention you're supposed to care about them later and what they do still.
If you aren't pushing or "confidently scumreading" anybody, rather than disappearing you want to act like you're someone in that position. I would be asking about things I didn't understand especially because some people will be posting very complicated cases this game. You want to ask and "know" their thought process and then judge for yourself whether you think it's "good". You want to consider if they're town and "right" on their reasoning and that someone is scummy, you want to consider if they're town and "wrong" or misguided with their reasoning on someone who's potentially town after all, and you want to consider the third option that maybe they're the scum and they're trying to cast doubt on someone for bad reasoning.

Obviously we know that the TownvsTown are just being misguided but we can't too obviously display that. It would go amiss if you assumed one thing without pretending to think about the other options.

[Raskolnikov]

The towniest newbie I've ever read in game was this player
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7825971
in this (completed) game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=66019

even though he/she wasn't doing amazing scumreads and votes, just from how open and active they were everyone was townreading them.
I really think that we might not have to BS and fake scumreads much if we can try to capture the impression.

Also if you're in a position where you're getting wagoned and very scared I'd actually advise you study other newbie games and see how town act there as a bit of a reference

[Raskolnikov]

If you're being wagoned I'll pretend to be for it and try to ask you specific questions to "be sure".

Questions about your scumread and thought processes, and what I feel would be decent responses

explain this read

go into detail here proportional to what the player actually has worth talking about, and about each significant "aspect" or thing about them you want to give a bit of a value judgement. I liked his X I didn't like this Y, I don't understand Z. "his posts are good/bad but his tone is bad/good". or like "I don't follow his reasoning but he just feels towny"
Give less detail for a read if its a townread unless its someone you're acting paranoid towards. Use tone if you can because people can't really argue with tone and it sort of ends discussion; but at the same time the people have to kind of understand what you're saying when you think its a certain tone even if they don't agree. I'd use a mixture of tone and "they're showing they're really thinking" to justify most townreads and "i dont understand their view as legitimate" to often justify my scumreads.

For the most part I wouldn't go into/explain a "townread" unless a) they just did a lot in the game while they we're involved much previous to that, b) said "townread" is getting wagoned, suspected or otherwise the topic of discussion, c) someone is asking me about it.

explain this thought process

go into it and especially what you were "thinking at the time". If pretty much everyone disagrees or like logically disproves it you can definitely say you were possibly wrong there. It's okay to be "swayed" a bit and see things differently after hearing opposing arguments, moreso if they come from a third party than the person itself though.

what are your other scumreads this game? (since you probably already talked about your first at this point)

what people will like to see is self-doubt and frustration on the side choices, and even on your first is people have "proved" it was bad logic or faulty

how do you feel about the wagon against you? Who do you think is town voting you as opposed to scum being opportunistic?

what people will like to see is an answer with some depth in it as opposed to the simplistic "they're all town" or the "they're all scum" wagoning me.
In reality this a question that nobody should answer sounding too certain because it's a really hard thing to judge so you want to just show some paranoia on someone wagoning you maybe and on someone you're really "townreading" feel sad they're voting you.
If I was being voted by my best or second best "townread" I'd almost say sorry and try to give off the impression that I'm upset and don't know how things could have gotten to that point. That I used bad logic and am remorseful rather than doubling down if it's clearly not a defendable position. If I'm being voted by my "scumreads" obviously I'll act differently there and suspect their being malicious in their push, but even there I'd have to act according to how "confident" I'm pretending to be in that scumread so my response or tone isn't mismatching my read on him.

[Raskolnikov]

Anyways good luck. I know it's a lot to take in but the game will be quiet early on so you'll have a lot of time to think about things.
Remember RVS is mostly nitpicking for pressure and you don't have to fake a confident scumread until quite a way into the day.
Revisit later maybe. I wouldn't have posted all this if we had daytalk but I feel like the odds are against us here; my record as scum is pretty bad so we'll have to survive pressure and wagons until they move onto other people if we want to win this game.

[Raskolnikov]

Thank you again for the reading material, will definitely read this.

Useful but don't use it TOO hard. Remember most people are new here too.
Also the way in which you use it is key.

Good usage: Sorry to bother you, what does X complicated concept I saw in your post mean? [asking questions, showing it but not over-the-top]
Concerning usage: As I said earlier, this is my first game so I don't understand. *brings it up 4 times* [too self-conscious]

[Raskolnikov]

Lastly I'd recommend just having a text file you keep your "viewpoints" in
but like chronological so they "change" over time.

That way later on when you're talking about a person you can fake a somewhat natural looking read in that it developed over time, and you don't have to try to make everything up on the spot if someone asks you about a person you never talked about so far.

Also maybe a note on how "productive" you feel at a time (town feel productive when they have decent leads they can follow); town are supposed to be frustrated in certain situations and really happy and engaged in others. But you don't want to look apathetic, even if town are sometimes apathetic.

Anyways I THINK that's all I have to offer so I hope it does help because I'm not sure myself if how sound most of it is yet.

[Raskolnikov]

Thank you again for the reading material, will definitely read this.

No problem and good luck to us both.

Worst case scenario a lynch on one of us day 1 isn't necessarily the end as long as we don't leave too bad association. We will be interacting at some point day 1 and hopefully can make it seem natural.
Just in case I somehow die d1: without any PR knowledge I'd do ranger kill n1 and probably f-oh-x/beeboy n2 depending on if one is figuring the game out and/or too heavily being townread to ever lynch.
Even if ranger is "suspected" actually lynching her isn't easy and even if she has a read wrong d1 she could easily re-evaluate overnight and figure the game out next day.
If we can weather d1 and get rid of her I think our chances are okay.

Anyways I'm going to confirm now and the game should start at some point tomorrow (and obviously we cant then comm anymore). If you have any questions feel free, but otherwise see you then.

[Raskolnikov]

One last thing, if I'm being wagoned I should be fine so don't feel pressured to defend me in any way.

[Raskolnikov]

Like even if I'm at l-1

[Raskolnikov]

Okay... With a little luck managed to survive today. Was literally getting panic attacks from day 1 onwards, I think I'm not cut out for scum

Are you there? This night timing is actually unfortunate for us because I leave today in a few hours and get back sunday night and I'l be missing most of the time to talk in here. I'm not sure if you got bored and flaked out of this game either, though even if that were the case I think the timing is such that replace wouldn't come till past night. I hope you're still playing! But regardless I'm going to leave my thoughts in here since I'll be gone for most of this 'night'.

[Raskolnikov]

I still want to kill ranger even if she's potentially mislynchable here. Though she seemed mixed on me here just seeing this flip has a huge chance of her figuring the game out, if not also seeing the NK and playing through next day if we leave her alive. Even if beeboy KNOWS I'm scum he's going to have some work convincing everyone, whereas ranger can potentially articulate it perfectly or use some form of magic or other to win the game. I definitely see why people kill ranger and I can only hope beeboy isnt doctor/jk to save ranger, or cop to cop me. I feel like beeboy can't try to get me lynched without looking scummy himself in the process, and I with the newbie influence I seem to have here I MAY win a 1v1 there even if he goes all-out. I feel like if ranger get's ML'd she'll post final thoughts calling us out and people will 100% believe and trust her, whereas if beeboy or someone else gets mislynched people won't automatically trust whatever reads they have (though technically ranger's view on sad should have people doubting in practice who knows). Ranger nk also has added utility in that I'd expect most of the newbies if they were PR to investigate her and if she's dead it's a wasted action.

[Raskolnikov]

Before this hammer actually happened I was thinking that I forgot to mention something here and it was very coincidental! About 1/2-2/3s into this day I realized I should have mentioned; if ranger, beeboy or potentially even f-oh-x (the three players I pinned as threats before the game started) get within L-1 it's actually very good if you were to quickhammer them and pass it off as an accident! People counter intuitively don't scumread or lynch quickhammering nearly as much as you would expect and it does come from town a fair bit. That way too would have gotten ranger/f-oh-x out of the way instead of sad/?ranger(if not saved), and quite frankly we wanted sad alive.

But that's no longer a viable strategy anyways because of this happening, no one would buy another "mistake" after this.

[Raskolnikov]

dvds(slot) kills ranger

Just setting this now in case I don't come back for some reason before thread lock.
Will reconsider and get the chance to change it before night ends but I somehow doubt I will. If I was a better scum player I'd know who the PRs are about now but nope.

[Raskolnikov]

Next day if you are here I need you to be way more active though and have a scumread. If you're having trouble you can write what you want to write in this topic and I can look over it when I get back sunday night but it is pretty important for you to get townread here by someone.

My personal plan I THINK will be pushing beeboy/vandit? I'm not quite sure but I feel like beeboy will push me so I want to beat him to the punch here and make it look omgusy or even like TvT. Vandits an easy mislynch here but after he flips it'll potentially look obvious I was going for the low hanging fruit there, and tbh I see immense value in having him in 3-2 LYLO even if it's pretty evil to use that to our advantage.

But I will have to push your slot today just for consistency and depending on how that goes it may be a bus; I'm not sure if town will townread or scumread you and I can't really go against town without sticking out if it ends up the latter. I'd even straight up hardcore tunnelpush except that I'm afraid of giving away weird associations/messing up distancing.

[Raskolnikov]

In a perfect world I'd lynch beeboy somehow tomorrow and NK f-oh-x, leaving against us in 3-2 lylo
zyf, sickofit, vandit.
Although that isn't to say they won't figure the game out. I think sickofit could have potential if he wasn't so AFK/inactive and I see lylo pressure as potentially bringing it out of him. Him suspecting me is quite likely if the IC and other SE is dead.
Zyf townreads me for now but on the same reasoning I expect him to question that townread heavily after the playerlist keeps narrowing down. However zyf and vandit both scumread sickofit and he's potentially the final ml if we get there, even if they cool off I still doubt they'd 180 to townreading him and never doubt him again.

[Raskolnikov]

The danger of today is beeboy and f-oh-x cooperating in scumreading me and lynching there.
I touched on this but to reiterate, if I fall under a lot of pressure it may be better to not defend/counterwagon me and possibly even scumread me there. Though don't make it out like I'm your top scumread and then vote/pressure elsewhere because that would be a read/actions mismatch; if I'm l-1 it's understandable for you to just hold vote vote and even l-2 for a while if its early in the day and the wagon was fast. But I think it is important you take a side, whether its scumreading like beeboy or townreading like zyf does because apathy there is the worst tell.
I bring up not defending because people generally feel suspicious of when someone is being wagoned and close to lynch "easily" and without resistance, and furthermore if it gets desperate I can scumread your jump onto my wagon and either make you look better or divert the lynch to a bus or onto a third party entirely (if anyone joins me in scumreading your jump on I can then call them opportunistic for playing both sides of the 1v1).

Mmm I'm not very experienced at scum myself though so this is mostly theory which may or may not work out in practice.

[Raskolnikov]

Okay... I'm assuming you flaked. Probably spouted too much theory and drivel at you, although tbh most of this was planning for myself. Welcome to whoever replaces you, estimated time June 7-8; I assume you'll read this. I know a lot of what I said wasn't even good since I'm bad at scum myself but I had hoped to minimize risk of newbie doing obvscum tells or whatever else and getting caught by scary ranger right away, in practice the flake makes it irrelevant now unless you're also newbie instead of an SE+ replacement.

I'm thinking of pushing you shortly after replace, on the reasoning that "I have too many townreads" and so you're likely scumpartner to whoever else is scum. People shouldn't like that reasoning but I doubt they'd see it as bussing either. More importantly it'll let my ask the questions I've been meaning to when you get wagoned, though of course ignore my faux-answers if you are experienced yourself. If you're experienced I'll also use paranoia of you BECAUSE of your experience as part of my push and justification to "get a read on you", though I won't say that's what I'm doing for the latter but rather "show it" and bring it up if people later ask why I'm pushing there.

Although if you don't want me to go through with this you should give me some sign, such as saying "I'd prefer not to do" but talk about something else at the end there and I'll assume it was about this. I may ignore that anyways though!

@mod ^this is fine under rules, right? Can I go further than that and hypo plan our day with word triggers? Where is the line drawn?

[Raskolnikov]

1 hour to day start... I'll try not to show up too late since that looks bad... Assuming ranger doesn't survive somehow I'll do the beeboy vote (pressure sort-of) or maybe a sickofit (or even f-oh-x?) one instead.
Also I have to remember to find some reason to show paranoia on zyf at some point just so he doesn't start scumreading me for completely ignoring him.

[Raskolnikov]

alright im back

[Raskolnikov]

Im glad you replaced in btw, I think you're pretty good. As scum I've had a HORRENDOUS record (lynched day 1 4/4 times) previous to this so I've been trying not to suck here, but tbh every experienced player I feared from gamestart (ranger,beeboy,f-oh-x) had suspected me anyways.

haven't caught up yet though I caught the vandit lynch. lol he was talking like he was PR before too

[Raskolnikov]

Okay, that was interesting. I was wondering why people didn't wait like I asked to monday but it makes sense with vandit not posting at all and everyone getting really bored.
Luckily for us too the way people postured around the hammer looked bad for them (sick fox? beeboy? etc) although Im starting to feel sorry for some of them now... As someone who prefers townplay this just feels wrong...

[Raskolnikov]

Zyf essentially claimed VT in one of his posts, if I was more confident a player I'd have done my town response which would have been to tell him that it was bad.

[Raskolnikov]

234

[Raskolnikov]

Yeah I kind of feel bad for the vandit thing too... It's really just a stylistic thing where epicmafia doesnt match up to this meta I guess. And this game is more that 'natural' misunderstanding than me having earned it too I feel.

I fucked up a certain newbie really bad (1685) where I quickhammered town, somehow got into lylo as confirmed t but then horrendously screwed up the lylo choice.

[Raskolnikov]

*that newbie being where I fucked up game AS town and gave maf free win

[Raskolnikov]

Mmm I was thinking of using the same kind of defense if I got scumread, all of my scum games I've just been incredibly obvious (and I'm even scumread a lot as town) so I hope that would help a bit, or at least make people look at the meta.

Although tbh it's not accurate since what happened was that I got all my scumgames while I was still really new, and since I didn't know how to play town I definitely couldn't fake town at that point (and they were not newbie games but games full of experienced players). But even those weren't that long ago since I've been pretty active so I don't think people will notice that and make the connection.

[Raskolnikov]

Ugh these pr things give me a headache, I've never lived long enough to have to try to figure this out before.
So theres

Row 1: JK VT |Goon
Row 3: BP Track |Goon
Col B: Cop VT |Goon
Col C: Doc Track |Goon
~impossible, but maybe still useful
Row 2: Cop Doc |RB
Col A: JK BP |RB

50% tracker, 25% JK,25% cop
25% Doc, 25% BP, 50% VT

I'm pretty sure Beeboy isn't an investigative because he would have investigated me (got guilty) or vandit and gotten something to make him hesitant lynching there (but he wasn't). But maybe he's BP or Doc.
F-oh-x or sick I'd assume to be investigative though it's unfortunate because they're both the best potential mislynches. We're lucky if its tracker or jk who mistargets but cop will reck us. I'm going to have to revisit reads to see if anyone is potentially using innos (maybe f-oh-x inno'd zyf for that 180? if sickofit is cop he probably wouldn't check me but he might you). it will really suck if we don't hit the pr-investigate tonight yeah.

[Raskolnikov]

So if there is a JK or Cop then BP and Doc are safeclaims, but beeboy I think knows this so I'd be a little wary too, and if he does bring it up it will actually look kind of bad.

OTOH we don't both want to be VTs I think because that would put us both in the lynchpool and give huge percentage to them. ugh headache...

[Raskolnikov]

Haha, that's actually part of why I NK'd ranger n1. Most of it WAS fear but I also figured any newbie cop would check the scary IC.

[Raskolnikov]

Yeah I figured I'd have to kill her eventually anyways to avoid a nightmare confirmed-town ranger at lylo or something scenario, but super quick before people had time to output reads was useful and threw some people off too.

I'm thinking... assuming beeboy is tracker/jk he WOULD have checked me n1 and because of the psychological bias against checking someone twice in a row I assume he would check you or something else next. So I think I should do the kill tonight?
If sickofit is PR same conclusion I think because he seems to townread me but idk if hes townreading you.
Admittedly its a problem if zyf is the pr all along since I think he'd check me at this point but I think hes VT.
f-oh-x I think would check me which prevents my kill if its JK so fuck. More likely tracker or cop though right? Assuming hes the kill anyways it doesn't matter that he'd prob check me if hes track/cop.

[Raskolnikov]

Pre Vandit Flip, scumread order. Will change based on flip but is maybe useful somehow? My speculation, point out if you think any of it is wrong.

Beeboy

very reserved, kept almost all reads to himself
~scumreading
Rask
sick ? f-oh-x? mhsmith??
probably not zyf

F-oh-x

~scumreading
Rask
sick > beeboy
mhsmith?, not zyf anymore

Zyf

~scumreading
Sick
Rask? (paranoia)
f-oh-x I think he likes him now tho. Maybe his earlier susp can be twisted/reused (234)
beeboy, mhsmith?

sickofit

~scumreading
F-oh-x
beeboy?
mhsmith?
rask, zyf (mislynch should change one of these, probably make him paranoid of me?).

[Raskolnikov]

Beeboy isn't cop (would have copped either me or vandit)
Zyf isn't cop since he doesn't treat anyone like inno or guilty and hes been extremely vocal so I think it would be obvious if he was a cop. Maybe he'd be cop who checked ranger but I kind of doubt it since he plays so much like a VT.

sickofit I doubt is cop, he clearly didnt check zyf or f-oh-x if thats the case, MAYBE have done ranger or beeboy. tho 269 makes me think he didnt check beeboy either, and even if sick was cop I assume he'd check F-oh-x next which makes him rather benign (since we're killing within sick/f-oh-x anyways prob).
F-oh-x MAYBE cop if he copped zyf and used it for his 180 on that scumread or ranger.

[Raskolnikov]

Lol you think f-oh-x copped vandit but let him get lynched?

[Raskolnikov]

I'm also wondering on how we'd even coordinate a quickhammer without daytalk. Maybe have it on a set minute of the hour or something like (35 minutes EXACTLY from the last vote) or some special thing like that and hope we're both online.

Maybe like {15m from last vote, +30m if one of us hasnt posted in the last hour}

[Raskolnikov]

Idk I still think f-oh-x is potential mislynch too since sick doesn't like him and zyf and beeboy seem mixed there.

[Raskolnikov]

Lol bee boys 298. He had it for a minute

I know for a fact beeboy still scumreads me though from the RVS, I think the only reason he didn't push it more was that vandit came along and technically he didn't have much actual "evidence" to justify his gut-like scumread onto me.

[Raskolnikov]

FOX = JK or cop - vt left
FOX = Tracker
FOX = Doctor
FOX = VT
No kill

VT and no kill are the bad ones IMO. the rest we can/should be able to work with. JK/cop are of course the best flips. Tracker nearly as good, because one town clear and no investigative.

Ok so fox flipping either JK or Cop puts us in an all VT game and we can just play standard.
Tracker flip we know someone is claiming BP or doc so I'm wondering if one of us should claim it first, possibly as doc protecting zyf all game. If we don't then either beeboy or sick (i dont think zyf is pr) would be the conftown and it would be a lot of trouble dealing with that.

VT flip is ugh... In that case I think sick is would be the jk/cop and he'd have probably checked beeboy or something, or maybe beeboy after all but with a non-cop invest. I think nokill is more likely than us seeing a VT flip here though.
The Nokill meaning either f-oh-x is BP, doc'd (doubt it), or either him or you were JK'd. Idk what to do here, but jk guilty won't be that bad esp on me since I am technically night targetish, and would work to our advantage if on the town. MYLO isn't that bad either if we're lucky maybe we get a hammer anyways, with the extra person being valuable to mislynch considering that there will be 1-2 conftown.
It doesn't feel like there's any good things to claim if its nokill though but at least no-kill rules out cop. Technically BP feels okayish if theres NK since it would work with JK and counterclaim the real bp/doc with the advantage coming to the first claiming but I think claiming bp unprompted is scummy since a real bp will think about a JK so it'll be weird dealing with that.
idkkkkkkkkk

[Raskolnikov]

If you do push beeboy I'll have to push sick though he seems to like me so idk if I want to.
It might be good to do the other way around where I push beeboy/you and you push sick/me to try to get zyf to vote him since zyf suspects sick and also is wary of me.

The problem of course being that we would be forced to bus if people preferred either of us to beeboy or sick but I think we have some credit built up, and the danger that if we do get forced into a 1v1ish scenario that people want to lynch between we won't get any mislynch chance...

[Raskolnikov]

Well meta isn't REALLY necessary I think. From personal experience I've seen beeboy get mislynched as town and people scumread him for being loose since he plays a bit differently from analytical wallposters.
I can say his reliance on tone and gut as opposed to reasoning and casing is low commitment and intentionally flexible and/or defensive since people have less material to judge.
I know in a pressure situation he might just say "x is scum" and repeat it instead of being THAT convincing to other people, whereas certain people would get others to follow I think beeboy has potential to fight in a way that makes it hard for people to judge the 1v1 well.

I know pretty much as a fact he'll be on me today so I have to fight that to some extent and scumreading him myself and having it 1v1 might be more optimal than you scumreading him and me doing other things

[Raskolnikov]

I think you're a little less towny than you think you are, or at least people are hiding their doubts but they def have them now.
People didn't really talk about you because of vandit and a bit of f-oh-x but you VS people like zyf I think people townread zyf more, and idk between you and beeboy but some people like him too.

[Raskolnikov]

I don't think these are the type of players who will meta
Zyf and sick no, beeboy feels more gut based and if he wanted to meta he definitely would have since we've been in a fair bit of games together.

All the better since us using the meta should be better. It'll be a meta vs no meta comparison instead of towny meta usage vs scummy meta usage.

[Raskolnikov]

Mmm I think some of the more implausible/stretching it "guilties" could get you in trouble for using them.
I probably should talk about this stuff and plan more but I'm really tired tbh and prob sleeping soon.

What's your timezone?

[Raskolnikov]

Yeah personally I'll be trying to use my own play I've had as town in pressure situations before.

Going to bed

also idk if we even should try to coordinate qhs since one of us will be scumreading said person and could legit vote and then the other could hammer, and if person unvotes it isnt end of world either.

[Raskolnikov]

Mmm, not really I guess. I would plan out a lot more but I can't really before seeing flip or no-flip.
I do wanna push beeboy tho personally if just for my defence so people dont sheep him.
I think either sick voting beeboy or zyf voting sick is our most likely way to win today, imo odds are beeboy won't misvote and will be focused on me.
I may push you hard if I feel like it idk.

Good luck!