House M.D. Mafia - Doctor Test Round - Feel free to jump in!

[KuroiXHF]

I'll start this throughout the weekend. I'll be on V/LA but will try to update when I can.

For those of you aren't aware, I'm starting a Micro Game. I thought of a fun mechanic where you actually play a doctor and how well you treat a patient can help you keep your job or push you towards termination.

I'm waiting until five people join. Again, this is a TEST RUN of the doctor's part ONLY. This is, however, a great game for those interested but want to dip their toes in.

Go here for more information:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=225 228

1. Antihero
2. Masquerade
3. Karnos
4. TellTaleHeart
5. Charloux
(I may have more than five players if this booms.)

[KuroiXHF]

ah, neat. being a pretend doctor sounds fun.

/in

It's like pretending to be a real doctor in real life, but the police aren't involved.

[KuroiXHF]

Messages have been sent all around. To be honest, I have a really good feeling this will turn out well. I'm sure there will be kinks but I'm confident they'll be fixed before the real game begins.

If it turns out well enough, I might try it again for a full themed game. But I'm taking this one step at a time.

[KuroiXHF]

omg yaaas.

ONE MORE.

[KuroiXHF]

What is the time commitment for this test run?

I've never done this before, but I'm guessing a week.

[KuroiXHF]

I'm going to start this now. If other players want to join, they can but if you pop up after a vote count, you don't get to compensate by asking more questions or doing more procedures.

I'm going to ask this of everyone before they begin: By reading the rules without playing the game, how confusing are the rules? What can I do to clarify them?

Let's begin:

"42 year old man. Seemingly healthy. Find out what's wrong with him."

You look down at the file in front of you and find this:

Patient's Name: Daniel Hawthorne
Age: 42

Medical Conditions:
Pre-Hypertension (beginning of high blood pressure)

Toxin Screening:
Negative for all recreational drugs and alcohol.

Previous Surgeries:
None

Current Medications:
Lisonopril - Blood Pressure Medication

Reason For Admittance:
Suffered a seizure while throwing a frisbee to his dog. Transported by ambulance. Administered diazepam. (Anti-seizure medicine) In stable condition. Underlying cause still unknown.

Your get to ask him two questions. More than that, your options are:
1. Give him a type of medicine. (Antibiotics, blood thinners, pain killets, etc.)
2. Perform a procedure/surgery. (Plasmapheresis, put them on dialysis, etc.)
3. Search their home for environmental factors. (Mold, fungal, rodents, etc.)
4. Make a final diagnosis.

As I've said before, I'm trying to make this realistic. Some of what you'll learn is relevant. Some of what you'll learn is not. It's up to you to figure out which.

Also, you only get two questions to ask the patient. You get as many questions as you want asking me on how this game works. You're also fine to Google. In fact I would highly suggest it during cases like, (Ex: "I've found out that the patient suffered a severe reaction to a bee sting... what do we do?") This game isn't designed to be abused by Web MD's symptom checker.

Dr. House looks at you all annoyingly, "I said get to the patient!"

[KuroiXHF]

Actually, that is standard information I should have added.

He's 5 foot 9 inches and weighs 175 lbs. His blood pressure is 125 over 70

Btw you have one more question you can ask

[KuroiXHF]

To clarify, you get two questions and one action per vote count period, not day phase. Of course, you aren't trquited to use them.


Clarify to masquerade, you would be doing the home search so it's either the search or the angiogram, not both

Also to answer your question, the search will be pretty thorough. You would miss something obscure to search for unless you're specifically looking for them.

I have predetermined if searching the house is relevant to the case at all. You may also choose to come back if you wanted to go deeper. (In some house episodes, they had to come back because they decided to look at something else specifically)

[KuroiXHF]

Usually I'm more role play like but this is a mobile post.

Masquerade:
"I run an eBay store. I buy stuff at yard sales then sell them online."
"I have a wife. Please don't let her know I'm here. I don't have kids though. She got pregnant twice but miscarried both times."
Your angiogram came back clean with no blockages in the blood stream.

Antihero:
There was slight cerebral swelling, but not enough to explain seizures.

Charloux:
"I ate what I usually eat. Bologna, deli ham, tuna and my weekly treat of mcdonalds. I love the mcrib."
I will specify when I recharge my phone but the basic blood test came back relatively normal. Normal blood sugar, slightly elevated cholesterol and sodium levels.

Tth: "this is my first one. It scared the bajeezuz out of me!"

[KuroiXHF]

-this is a new vote count period -

[KuroiXHF]

I forgot to mention.

"No psychiatric isdues. I'm not crazy or nothing"

[KuroiXHF]

Yes! Feel free to absorb all the info given and ask two questions and perform an action

[KuroiXHF]

Question about mechanics: is physical examination considered a procedure?

Yes.

[KuroiXHF]

I'm hoping to finish this part in about an hour but I will tell you that the vote count part will show how it will affect you in the real game

[KuroiXHF]

Before I continue the rest of the blood tests showed normal for the following:

Co2 levels
Nitrogen
Calcium
Chloride
Creatine
Potassium

[KuroiXHF]

Crap I had a long post and it's not easy to do this stuff on my phone. I'll just do a recap.

Antihero - spinal tap results indicate damaged cns.
Dierfire - patient got back from grovery store than played fetch with the neighbor dog. Then the seizure happened
Karnos - the patient said he had a bug bite . You searched and found a bug bite on his penis
Masquerade - pain all over from the seizure. It's about a 5.
Charloux - your patent collapses because of abother seizure. Cuddy reams you. You are now hated and it takes one less vote to terminate you.
Tth - eeg indicates low electrical activity.
Matt - cmp indicates the same blood tests from the former one. Since this one now shows liver and kidney, the liver tests is normal. However, his kidneys are heavily damaged.
You also can't check his neurological test now. That would be two actions.
Silver dancer - the home search results in finding samples of dust sludge and clutter. The walls are cracked and the carpet is torn.

More results incoming
Dierfire - neurological tests are poor. Results indicate him losing motor functions

Shadow

[KuroiXHF]

Masquerade - kidney functions are declining from the urine. The test didn't tell you this. The blood in the urine is

[KuroiXHF]

Sorry about the shoddy report. I expected this to be easier on the phone

[KuroiXHF]

pbpbpbbbtbttbtbt
youre already out of my league

clarification: what in the spinal tap told me cns was damaged? (white blood cells...?)

I tried researching this but I can't find the answer I'm looking for. Sorry I can't be of more help

[KuroiXHF]

/in

Kidneys process urine right, so is there a way to check for toxins?

If you know a test you'd like to run, you can use this as your action

[KuroiXHF]

- assume the anti seizure was just to stop the seizure. He has since been off.
- matt p, this is where my lack of medical research comes in. Assume the blood test simply indicate a lack of kidney function.

[KuroiXHF]

Ask the patient:

How long he's been pissing blood.
How long he's been living in the house with torn carpet and cracked walls.

Action:

Start patient on dialysis.

/sigh

i still kinda' think it's meningitis and the fucked up kidney is just the result of sepsis maybe (?)

it's simple enough where it passes the "everyone's heard of it" test. the spinal tap came up positive (for ... something apparently) and youve got all the neurological symptoms.

no report of a headache when asked about pain...

take patient's temperature

Tth:
"What are you talking about? I only noticed this when the nurses pointed it out and my home? I don't know. IT just happened. I wrk a lot at home. It just happens."

You started your patient on dialysis. You did a very good thing and the board took notice. You are no longer hated.

Antihero - the temperature is 98.8 degrees.

Masquerade - the ultrasound showed no other damages in the abdomen.
"No. Please don't call my wife! This isn't the first time something like this happened. I didn't want my wife to know because she wanted me to go to the hospital earlier. I've been having muscle spasms and it's weird. My mind isn't telling my body to go to the right places. When I go to grab the spoon in the cupboard I grab the fork. It's embarrassing. "

I will post again with the marts result

[KuroiXHF]

Matt, gfr of 10 per minute.
Also, the ultrasound found small lesions on the kidneys.

And tth, you were considered hated for putting a seizure patient on the treadmill

[KuroiXHF]

Wait, my mistake. Dierfire is still hated. Tth is liked

[KuroiXHF]

Sorry. Yes. That's what I meant.

[KuroiXHF]

What I told you from the house search shows all things relevant from a normal house search. Unless you were worried and specified sone thing obscure like the fabric of his underwear, you know what you need to know.whether it's relevant is up to you

[KuroiXHF]

Masquerade, I swore I answered that. No medical issues. Just the hypertension and his wife's pre eclampsia.

[KuroiXHF]

Kurobo, yes you can join. Everyone, I'm actually going to take the day off this because the wedding is today. You guys are also deserving of real write ups instead of mobIle posts.

So keep guessing, debating amongst yourselfs and try to read between the line.

[KuroiXHF]

Action: Track down wife and get her to the hospital.

We need to convince him otherwise we can't contact the wife

Your point is duly noted, Dr. Cameron.

Also, the wedding is over and I'm headed home to a computer. I will have something tonight.

[KuroiXHF]

So I want to ask the patient about any prior illnesses he or any one in his family had (including the alleged wife of course), and also when those happened and where he was in the last couple of years.

"I told the other doctor that there ain't that many problems with me! I have a little high blood pressure and my wife has pre-eclampsia!"

And finally, did his alleged wife allegedly live in the same dumpster he lives in when she had her alleged miscarriages (and again, how long ago exactly was that, allegedly)?

(Mod Note: These are several questions within one turn and normally I won't allow this. I will for reasons evident at the end of the page.)
"Dumpster? This is my home that you're talking about! You're an ass! I'll have you know that my wife lived in my beautiful home since we became married! She got pregnant and miscarried two years ago and three years ago!"

Since every body lies, I'd also like to search the archives for all available medical records that could confirm whatever he answers to the above questions (so this I assume is considered my action then)

You go through medical records of his main hospital in Trenton, NJ. He was truthful.

Are those eyebrows or is it just a black marker?

(Mod Note: I would answer a question without this counting as one of your two questions as this should be free knowledge.) "I have eyebrows! What's wrong with you!?"

point out that the wife is probably exposed to the same toxic he was and that it may have been related to the two miscarriages

"You think she's sick because she miscarried? The doctors said she had pre-eclampsia!
Dr. Hero: "Sir, you've been having a disconnect between your mind and your body. I also suspect you of having psychiatric symptoms."
"But my wife doesn't have any of those issues. I don't believe you!"
Result: Failed. (Mod Note: For things such as this, you'll have to provide more information that would help your case in succeeding. Here, the patient doesn't agree with you and is unconvinced.

Sir, where is your wife?
Sir, how is your relationship with your wife?

Action: Track down wife and get her to the hospital.

"My wife's at work. Why do you want her? Why do you care so much? And my wife and I have a very loving marriage!"
Dr. Masquerade finds the patient's wife (Brenda) from health records and brings her to the hospital.
Brenda: "Daniel, you jerk! I told you what would happen if you didn't stop eating McDonald's!"
"This has nothing to do with the McDonald's, Brenda!"
*Brenda turns to Dr. Masquerade* "I bet he tells you he only eats there once a week, huh? He eats there EVERY. DAY. Now look at him! He's had a heart attack! I knew this day would come!"

...They bicker and bicker. Time for you to come up with a plan.

/in

i'd like to ask the patient what sort of flea control the dog is on.

Also, I'd like for the mod to describe the bug bite on the patient's penis

"I don't know. I don't own the dog."
While you investigate the bug bite, you conclude that it came from a mosquito. It's not infected.

Also, who is his emergency contact?

"My emergency contact? I suppose it would be my wife, Brenda."

I'd like to ask the patient which neighbor's dog it was. After finding that out, I want to go interview that neighbor. Ask about how much they know each other, how familiar they are with each other... Saving questions about his wife for last.


My thoughts: Why play with the neighbor's dog? Why not tell the wife? Why on the penis? Me thinks something is going on there. This may be too obvious, but I'm not sure what better to do that isn't already covered.

"The dog belongs to my neighbor, Freddy!"

You go over to Freddy's house and knock on his door. He answers:
"Hello? Can I help you?"
"Yes. My name is Dr. Clumsy from Princeton Plainsboro. Your neighbor, Daniel, got sick while playing with your dog."
"No. My puppy bit him? I've never heard of Nugget ever biting someone!"
"No. Your do-... eh, Nugget, never bit him. I was hoping I could ask a couple questions."
"Sure, Doctor. Anything."
"Does Daniel play with your dog a lot?"
"Sure! I mean, I try to keep up with my fence, but lil' Nugget over here likes to jump over them and if he can't, he'll dig underneath. He likes to come over to his house because he can smell the cheeseburgers! Whenever the puppy is over, he'll play with him."
"Okay. And do you hear a lot of complaining with his wife?"
"Ooof! All the time. They argue loudly. They fuck loudly. I sometimes have a hard time getting to sleep!"
"And are you aware of a bug bite on your neighbor's penis."
"i... eh... No. I'd love to say that I've never seen his penis before, but he likes to walk around his house naked. I think one time he walked to his mail box naked."
"...That's enough for me. Thank you for your time, sir."

- assume the anti seizure was just to stop the seizure. He has since been off.

Our patient has had at least one witnessed seizure and is not currently on medications for that. We are bad physicians.

I'd like to

start the patient on benzodiazepines

for the seizures.
I've lost track of whether I have diagnostic actions available, but if so I'd like to

check blood levels for heavy metals

(if I have to choose one, I pick lead, I guess).

Mod Note: You'd have to do one of the other. In this case, I would start the patient on regular anti-seizure medications.
Your patient has been having less steroids! His level of care has improved. You are now liked by the board!

Go investigate the house for sources of lead, or other metal based toxins

You go back to Mr. Hawthorne's house and find a broken piece of wall. It's easy to recover pieces. You also collect the tap water and bring both in for analysis. The water comes back clean, but the analysis on the wall comes back with lead.

Ask the patient:

How old his house is.

Action:

Start patient on chelation therapy for lead poisoning.

"Dr. Heart, the house is kind of old. It was built in 1920-something."
As far as your actions go, you put your patient on chelation therapy. His body instantly starts getting better. You have correctly diagnosed and treated the patient for lead poisoning.

Final Diagnosis: Lead Poisoning
In the game, there will be only one clear winner who receives the benefit for full victory, but I will give 1st, 2nd and 3rd winners on this:

1st: TellTaleHeart. He was quickest to go forward with the correct treatment and the right diagnosis in mind. If this was a real running game, it would require 75% of the players to lynch him.
2nd: Titus. Her action would have correctly diagnosed her patient. However, it would not have started the patient on the correct therapy.
3rd: Dierfire. Dierfire was thinking about heavy metal toxicity with an emphasis on lead. Unfortunately, there were two actions and I've went with the first.

Relevant information:
- Wife's Pre-eclampsia: The doctors misdiagnosed her with pre-eclampsia because of the miscarriages. Lead poisoning can cause miscarriages and sometimes even mimic some of its symptoms.

- Daniel's job: He works at home a lot and has an ebay store. If you concentrated a bit on that, you would have learned that he got himself a hold of lead-based paint in a yard sale and decided to paint his home with it.

- The paint: It was not of the highest quality. It broke easily and the particles affected both him and his wife. However, because he spends more time at home, his lead poisoning was more severe.

- His cheapness: I tried making this a subtle but persistent hint. You took his cheap deli and McDonald's diet as indicative to his poor eating habits, but it was also indicative to him being cheap. If you read into it the right way, you'd see him being the kind of person so cheap to use any kind of paint he could get his hands on. That's why he would use lead based paint.

What was not relevant:
- Other crappy parts of his house. His rugs were ripped. Trash was everywhere. It was not bad to his health.

- The bug bite on his penis. Kind of embarrassing, but I didn't want you to get the answer so easily. Most of you ignored it so that's whatever, but I wanted something misleading.

My ideas on how I will adjust this game:

- I'll put a disclaimer saying something along the lines of: "There may be some mistakes, but I will do my prudent efforts to be as medically accurate as I can. I may make generalized statements if I cannot medically understand some ramifications such as "Low blood sugar" instead of "Blood Glucose at 52."

- I may make the diagnoses to be a little bit more difficult. Not so much, but a bit.

- I may make the patient to get a bit worse perhaps a bit sooner. I think it was fine this game because all that happened were signs of failing kidneys. If you waited longer without correctly diagnosing, it may have meant him slipping into a coma.

Do you guys have any comments, criticisms, ways to improve? Let me know! <3

And thank you all for playing. I've learned so much from this. If you guys want another simulation round, let me know. I can consider it.

[KuroiXHF]

Well the difficulty seems right. What would happen if someone kills the patient and then someone else puts him under the right treatment?

If you kill your patient, only 25% of the votes are necessary to lynch you.

Guys, I have one more idea: How would you feel about upping the votes required to 80%... or dare I say,

immunity

to the player who first diagnoses and treats the patient?

[KuroiXHF]

Oh, and another idea I had from a mod's point of view is a rolling of a dice (D20) to see how likely the action is to succeed, based on the risk.

Breaking into a patient's house: *Needs to roll a 5* *If you roll 4 or lower: You couldn't break through the lock.*
Lying to a patient and tell him if he doesn't let you do a dangerous test, he'll die. *Needs to roll a 13*
Being caught having sex with a patient's wife and the patient is the one who caught you - you convince him that he's dreaming. *Needs to roll a 20*

Let me know if you like this idea.

Preview Edit: There was a clue. The walls were crumbling and falling apart. I don't think they'd take a piece of the wall necessarily and I didn't say they took a piece of the wall and tested it.

[KuroiXHF]

Masquerade, I have a bit of a tough time understanding what you mean. Could you possibly provide an example?

Dierfire, did you find an incentive to delay actions? I don't see myself giving one. If anything, I would penalize them. "A patient that is not being treated will get worse." (And I will make an exception for when players are on V/LA.)

Also, what is a LYO Phase?

Also, I think I'll scrap the D-20 idea.

[KuroiXHF]

Well I left more than one clue. Granted, the house was the largest clue, but the "cheapness" was also a huge clue. Someone who would be willing to save a buck by buying only cheap deli meats and McDonald's would also be the person to use cheap tools and would have a shortcut to their health. Mixing that with the symptoms, lead poisoning shouldn't have been such a large leap. I'm pretty sure the house wasn't a factor to TTH when he diagnosed and set the patient on the correct treatment.

And you're right. I don't want the answer to be so easy that the doctor would walk in and find a can of paint, test for lead and there you go. A cooldown period does seem nice. The thing is that the specified search is kind of how I already have it. Titus, on the second try, said that she wanted to go back and search specifically for the paint chips.

But I do like, "Oh you're using an action period to search the house? OK. This is what you find." And the second search could lead to, "You took samples of the tap water, the mold on the bread and liquid underneath the sink, etc."

But on the other hand, if brain surgery lasts one action and if you can do an MRI and get the results within one action, why does the house search have to be longer?"

[KuroiXHF]

Maybe hated-status can come from all bad outcomes, not just death? Like you put him on penicillin but failed to ask for allergies and now he's seizing so you're hated, your hated status will be removed if you do something helpful to your patient or when he gets cured. Hated from death can't be reverted because well, the patient is dead.

When someone at L-1 gets hated, does he insta-die?

They do come from all bad outcomes. Ask Charloux and yes, hated at l1 means death

[KuroiXHF]

And noted. I'll definitely add clinic duty in some form

[KuroiXHF]

I think including some red herrings (lead paint, when the diagnosis is not actually lead poisoning for example) would be a better and more House way to do this.

I had

some

red herrings. (The dog, the mosquito bite on the penis, etc.) But maybe I should add more. The fact of the matter is in the real life, not everything is relevant.

One turn to go the House and take samples, oner turn to go to the lab and analyse them...

I'm thinking that make more sense. Time-wise, it takes about double the time to take the time to go to a patient's house, search for everything, drive back, THEN do the tests.

Maybe give scum the ability to sabotage tests to give false results and thus mislead people into false diagnoses and treatments.

Good idea! I'll think about this!

Why mix mafia into this?

I think the doctor portion alone would make a fine game in the Mish Mash.

Alright, so here's my thought process. We'll do our Micro game. If things go well, we can play this game in Mish Mash and spend more time fine-tuning the mechanics then if the Mafia game went well and people become comfortable with the diagnostic part, we can do a full length large theme game. Then we can do full-time mish mash.

When I started following the game (without any doctor knowledge), my mind went "If this got mixed with mafia, will they have even enough time to scum hunt?"

I think so. I left a good amount of time for people to converse and most didn't, because they already put their actions in.

I think that if you want to run this game mixed with mafia, throw the doctor part into a public PT so the doctor diagnosis stays in the PT while the scumhunt part stays in the main thread to avoid clusterfuck and to make things more organized.

I will consider this, but there's definitely going to be a grey area and I can't see a way where this stuff won't spill over. For example, I'm sure Player A will try to find a way to consider Player B's treatment of the patient scummy.

[KuroiXHF]

Maybe we should get some information by a PM and it's up to us to share the results. That said, if 2+ ask for the same thing they will both get the results. I think this will add another flavour for scum

I don't think I'll be doing this for the reason that even though everyone is responsible for their own fuck-ups in treating the patient, I'm trying to make this appear to be the same patient.

The only way this could really work in the way you're explaining it is if I sent a PM to everyone except for one who may not be able to receive the results but that would be way too much.

[KuroiXHF]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=66839

I'm starting another one here, if you'd like to sign up. I'm right now updating rules and such, but I'm focused on making it more enjoyable and fun to play!