Mini 1786: Inspirational Mafia (Game Over)

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vote thestatusquo

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Yes. This is a serious wagon on scum.

Should I assume sarcasm please? Or am I missing something?

I am not one for jokes nor sarcasm. MOI is assuredly scum.

At post 23? By what logic?

You seem to be unusually resistant to the idea of voting MOI. Why?

newer players tend to be overly cautious of their votes

why is MOI scum?

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vote Katsuki

why is MOI scum?

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I want to give kats a better chance to realize hes acting in an anti town fashion by refusing to claim and actually claim. Not some fake "You know I'm just going to claim a PR" bullshit.

Im still vla. But I basically agree with this

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Its only been like a day though

Give him a liiiiiiittle more time

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uhhhhh considering that he doesn't want Katsuki lynched immediately and there's a declared intent to hammer, I don't see how you can possibly describe that unvote as awkward?

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yeah, I've been a non-entity for a lot of the game, I know

Shea seems to be the only one actually playing the game and is strongly town to me regardless of Katsuki's flip.
I find Lowell's doubtcasting on shea a few pages ago to be fairly scummy regardless of Kat's flip.
implo's unvote on page 8 will be fairly scummy to me if Kats flips scum. null if Kats flips town.
I want MOI to be town because I miss wallposts and quotestriping. don't really have much of a read on him at the moment.

I'm comfortable with the Katsuki lynch. hell, I wish he was in every one of my games so I could lynch him Day 1 every game.

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dunno how to read shotty. seems like he's bickering with shea for the sake of bickering rather than to actually generate reads or advance the game. lots of a noise, not a lot of signal.

looking through the rest of the playerlist, I don't really have a memory of the rest of them. but, I've probably missed stuff. this is all off the top of my head.

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Given this … is your opinion on the unvote different now?

yeah, I grok what you're saying now. I still don't find shea's unvote scummy.

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Well then allow me to improve the level of their play. Fearless and hyperaggressive is the only right way to play town.

this is a really bizarre post

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More detail please.

Investigative

why on earth would you do this given that shea was in absolutely no danger of being lynched?

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For now,
VOTE: Lowell
I'm really not a fan of 194/195; the reasoning just doesn't feel genuine. I have a bit of trouble with Lowell not being able to see that townies might care how others read them.

Also don't like the creature criticism. Lowell criticizes Creature for critizing every vote on the wagon, which Creature just straight-up doesn't do. He calls some of the votes and some posts by people on the wagon townish. He also criticizes Creature for not actually saying what's wrong with the lynch which seems like just a mischaracterization of Creature's post (it looks to me like it was a post-hammer analysis of the wagon, especially given that he asked before it whether the hammer was dropped, rather than an indictment of the wagon) so criticizing it for not indicting the wagon seems vacuous.

In general the points Lowell has made so far seem to assume things about other players (that townies should have similar playstyles/not care about alignment in the former case, and that a post-hammer wagon analysis is necessarily an indictment) that just don't seem like assumptions that town should make. Or he's misinterpreting a lot of things.

This isn't a super strong read but it's where I'm at right now.

this can be town

also

vote Lowell

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More detail please.

Investigative

why on earth would you do this given that shea was in absolutely no danger of being lynched?

This looks bad on kage and snarky

I have some doubt that kage as scum would play his noobcard so strong that he would pointlessly claim an investigative on D2

kage feels town to me for that post

SS I'm less sure of because him asking reads as fishing to me

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Feels like he jumps in to say obvious things

...are you admitting that you are obviously scum?

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Heh, clever.

No, I'm saying you jumped on someone else's attack on me, opportunistically.

I've been calling you scum since yesterday

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SS I'm less sure of because him asking reads as fishing to me

imo combined with the other stuff his lurking reads as scummy

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he hadn't claimed anything other than a "clear" on shea

it could have meant a lot of things, you're the one who got out the fishing pole and bait

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he hadn't claimed anything other than a "clear" on shea

it could have meant a lot of things, you're the one who got out the fishing pole and bait

Why aren’t you hammering myself of Shotty for this also Untrod?

because it was completely different? he was the one who convinced a newbie to spill the beans about his role without there being any real reason to

you guys were just getting clarification after the information was already out

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also I don't thiiiiiiiiiink SS is at L-1 yet but I'm going to wait for an official votecount before putting down my vote

I'm okay with this wagon

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man, why did I think there were a bunch of votes on SS

vote SnarkySnowman

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Snarky is still my preferred lynch today

can someone give me a tl;dr for the case on implo? I must have missed it.

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tl;dr I thought the way he questioned kagelord at the beginning of the day seemed like textbook scum rolefishing

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I'm not so sure of creature. Vote implosion please

I want your reads on every player in this game. Next post please.

I would like this from Untrod and BBT as well.

that's nice

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TL/DR of Implosion – I think he’s spent too much time sidelining his vote on Snarky (aka easy target if Town) while calling Shotty scum repeatedly with no movement towards actually pushing his scum read. Also relational issues related to Creature. Also add excessive appeasement to attackers (BBT, KMD) into the mix.

dropping the Creature thing (relational tells to unflipped players etc) I think this is a fairly compelling case. I wouldn't have a problem voting for this if we got into a bind

I still prefer SS

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to give his vote more mobility

you say, as I dig in my heels in on the SS wagon

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he's just sort of throwing stuff out to see if anything sticks

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@Implosion

- just to be clear if you get back to L-1 don't wait for anyone to ask for a claim. I am reading you as scum and with deadline in the next 2ish days consider this my intent to hammer you.

vote implo

I got u bro

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I am Innocent replaces kagesong!

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I'm still here. Implo lynch is still garbage. Would vote for like almost every person on that wagon before I would vote for implo.

would you prefer a no lynch?

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Scum would have hammered town and would have hammered scum for the bus.

yeah or they could be waffling and not doing anything

stalled lynches happen on all alignments

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I mean, I'd prefer a Snarky lynch but it really was looking like that wasn't going to happen so I would prefer to avoid a no lynch

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Snarky has done nothing

rolefishing tho

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what I'm getting from the opening of this day is that Aris is still town, shotty is scum, Creature is bad at setup spec, shea is getting frustrated that the game is full of potatoheads, and I still want to lynch SS

vote SS

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I think I feel strongest on UT as scum. Rethinking my read on Aristo since I though BBT was likely scum but that's still null to scumlean for me.

Your top scumread is the person who is most strongly pushing for your lynch. Color me unsurprised!

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omg shea I love your avatar

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ehhhh Aris is pretty clearly town here

anyway, things other than SS (who is still scum)

I've found a lot of shotty's posting this game to be from the place of "maybe I should just do some extending back-and-forth with one player to take up a lot of space without having to actually affect the game" and I find myself scumreading him after how today has started.

I'm not all that impressed by kmd's big VCA and while I don't think he's scum I don't really find myself wanting to agree with a lot of his conclusions of "one of these two has to be scum"

I don't think shea's lack of posting this last little bit is alignment indicative

more to come. I've been busy so I'm catching up off the top of my head

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I don't get the Creature votes, what's with the creature votes?

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and since there's a wagon on shotty who I'm scumreading anyway I'm just going to

vote shotty

since you potatoheads are going to just let people rolefish and then kill of the power roles they catch and then get away with it

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basically

probably because this part and I've definitely won scum games before by being "basically just confirmed town" so

I'm going to actually keep reading you instead of just assuming

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it's irrelevant more or less, I guess I was just reacting to magna saying "why is this what you're doing with your conftown status" it was just me saying "don't get paranoid about shea"

I dunno, it was stream of consciousness

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Can I hammer a chump yet, or are you all gonna be "OMG LOWELL HAMMERED OMG"?

this post looks really really scummy to me after the shotty flip

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I went back and reread Lowell on D1 it was the way he was posting in relation to shea. It looked like classic discrediting of a strong presence

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It is a little funny that kmd knows the votes on me are opportunism.

lol

scumclaim

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It is a little funny that kmd knows the votes on me are opportunism.

Why are you continuing this?
What if I were to, say, post my

Intent to Hammer

?

wait on hammering him, we should discuss who fits as a partner with him and shotty

Magna would be good to have input on this. given his claim, I find it unlikely that he's alive tomorrow

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wait on hammering him, we should discuss who fits as a partner with him and shotty

Magna would be good to have input on this. given his claim, I find it unlikely that he's alive tomorrow

Why the premium on holding off when I can post all my thoughts till the end of night in the Neighborhood?

I have some thoughts on who makes a possible partner but frankly want to see Lowell's claim first.

there's more people in the game than just us

I was just mentioning you specifically because I know you already had some well-developed thoughts on this. Also the PT isn't public and it would be useful to just have stuff directly in the game thread?

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Was very late to call the Shotty scum (in fact he never joined it simply cheer-led both here and in the Neighborhood)

Life begins at the end of your comfort zone.

VC FINAL

drmyshottyizsik (5)- MagnaofIllusion, Creature, Kmd4390,

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, SnarkySnowman

(LYNCH)

Yep. never joined the wagon.

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I am kind of in an either/or place with Lowell/SS right now and since I'm feeling stronger on a Lowell scumread than SS for aggregate reasons I'm not really worried about SS today

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I think that clears Snarky.

agreed

vote kmd

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all that NLing will do is make it easier for the last scum to win

I don't really see an upside here

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it kind of seemed like Lowell was just sort of throwing anything at the wall and seeing what would stick

given the nature of his role, it seems to me that he probably panicked because he couldn't talk to his buddies

Creature coming out with the vote worries me as well. scum tends to vote first in MyLo/LyLo. I was all prepared to be voting Magna today but that Creature vote...

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Why both a Roleblocker and Rolestopper if scum’s only Powerrole that is meaningful to block is Neighborizor? That doesn’t pass the smell test.

Town Neopoliatn + Town Roleblocker + Town Rolestopper + Town Neighborizor is much more balanced against something like Goon + 1-Shot Encryptor + Rolecop or Limited Shot Strongman.

I also pretty much 100% agree with this assessment

however, it means pretty much that if we NL we'll just end up being without Magna tomorrow, so

I *really* don't see a point in NLing today since it's pretty clear what the outcome would be

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"oh shit, I don't have the votes for that mislynch, I better move onto someone else"

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"who will it be though. oh, the person who just said they wanted to vote me. that'll look super natural. now just unvote real casually and say they're scum. you've got this game in the bag! no one will have a clue!"

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I think his behavior today is damning enough, but do what you need to do

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I love how he slid in a few quotes that had nothing to do with what he was talking about just to pad the list

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yawn

bottom line is that Creatures posts and votes today have been incredibly scummy

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wahh wahh I'm being called out for my scummy bullshit wahh

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like I said, I came into today thinking it was magna, but I think that setup spec rules him out 95% of the time given the rolestopper flip

not to mention Creature's posting today

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meta is trash

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have I considered it? yes

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meta is trash

Would you consider Aristo scum then?

Just want to highlight this post for MoI and to a lesser extent Aris. He's now angled for votes on ALL THREE other living players.

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I saw it. What do you think is the strongest reason for Arist-scum if you’ve considered it?

since he's been in the game, it seems like he's sort of been taking his cues from what is happening around him. I think that's more likely to be him replacing in and not wanting to reread than it is him being scum, though.

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yeah I'm not saying it's excusable, but I don't think he's scum in the first place so....

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Aris

for fuck's sake

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VT

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let's just assume Creature is going to claim VT too, can you just get on with whatever it is you're going to do before you vote for Creature

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you know what a rolestopper does, right?

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right, yeah

from what you were writing it sounded like you thought it was a roleblocker, just wanted to make sure before you spent a lot of time on that assumption

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But is it a Strongman Neighbourizer?

I mean... it could be

or it could be the much more obvious choice of Creature is just scum here

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okay, consider the trajectory of his posting today

he started the day gunning hard for Magna. when the setup-spec information was pointed out to him he said "oh, right, how about UT then"

then he asks me if I'd consider voting for you

like, he spent the opening of today just looking for votes on literally every other player in the game, moving from person to person as avenues were closed off to him

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Okay, I get that, but is it Scum? Like, as the last scum here you have to play it so much subtler than that. I think he was just trying to feel people out.

the point I'm making is that he demonstrated a willingness to vote for every other player in the game...

if it quacks like a scum, dude

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UT, can you read page 20 and let me know what you think of the Creature/Magna interactions around Shotty there?

what am I supposed to be seeing there? it looks to me like shotty trying to buddy town

if anything is iffy there, it's Creature jumping on the implo wagon based on Magna's scumread?

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help me out here, what are you seeing on pg 20 that is incriminating to MoI?

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hmm

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I guess what bugs me about Aris-scum here is that he's rejecting a Creature vote (which would almost definitely get support from both you and me) in favor of trying to push a lynch on someone who is almost definitely town in a MyLo scenario

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Okay, I get that, but is it Scum? Like, as the last scum here you have to play it so much subtler than that. I think he was just trying to feel people out.

the point I'm making is that he demonstrated a willingness to vote for every other player in the game...

if it quacks like a scum, dude

But town need that open mind initially to ensure the final scum is found.

let me try this again:

scum are most easily caught in times of uncertainty. RVS stage and LYLO being the places I've found where scum are mostly likely to show their hand due to not knowing what a town player would do in the flow of the game at that point. from my perspective Creature was no having an open mind and scumhunting, but what trying to see who he could get the votes for to lynch (and it didn't seem to matter who that was). that's a pretty big difference and I'm fairly surprised that you're not seeing it.

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See that bugs me absolutely the opposite way - I don't see Town going out of their way to find things that are huge stretches in MYLO.

what? explain how that's more likely to come from scum than town in this specific case, especially given there's two people wanting to vote for a player that isn't him

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it kind of seems like a replacement is inevitable regardless

although it's pretty likely that MoI gets killed tonight so

I'm willing to roll the dice for now to see if MoI can get better access

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I'm pretty sold on Creature. MIL has changed my mind over the past bit.
If he makes it back to vote change, I'm in.

...your mother in law?

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Yay it's dgb

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Does that fit it with the other information you guys got?

Yes

Also read today. He scummed it up p good

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I'm obviously on board with that

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vote Creature

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Tldr he's scum

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Wish you could have joined us earlier, DGB (not for MoI; I like MoI)

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Meanwhile he was asking me if I was willing to vote for you after he expressed a scumread

Are you seriously humoring this scumbag?

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yo girl

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One of us should do that thing where we confirm ourselves as town, eh?
If we trust each other enough.
Thoughts?

well... I don't trust Creature...

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considering that MoI was more or less confirmed town yesterday....

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okay

do you want the hammer?

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vote Creature

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nah girl

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thank god that's over

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sorry Aris

I was teh scumz

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so, amusingly, on N4 I killed KMD to frame one of the people not in the neighborhood

so, you may have rolestopped a dead guy, but it prevented that mislynch avenue on you

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Doesn't help that UT's always such a bitch when he draws town

Ugh if he wins I'll be so pissed.

Spoiler: me irl

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dear lord I'm so good at mafia, or dear lord you want to congratulate me on my fantastic win?

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admittedly it was a lot funnier circa 2011

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dirk is legend

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THAT IS WHY YOU HAD TO DIE

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in a vacuum this setup was townsided. it's not enough to be an issue though so I wouldn't worry about it.

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I would have gotten absolutely rolled if the PRs had been playing even a little more effectively though

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thanks man, I'm really surprised and happy that I got it done