Mini 1800 - Game Over

[Mizzytastic]

VOTE: Kappy
RVS wagons are the best though!

Persivul, you honestly think self voting there is scummy or that just an RVS vote?

sickofit, not sure what you mean by first to post. First to post in the thread? First to vote on the Kappy wagon?

[Mizzytastic]

Soooo, if thats your worry, how worried do you feel at L-3 and with one of the votes being your own?

sickofit, ok. Do you see why your comment along with the vote sounds like it could be related to what had happened beforehand?

RVS is fun, I think scumhunting is more fun though. More useful too!

[Mizzytastic]

I am voting for sickofit, not myself.

Derp. My bad.

[Mizzytastic]

i saw them and didnt chage it

Was the easiest scumlynch comment added before or after you saw them?

[Mizzytastic]

Kappy, what do you hope to achieve by moving your vote around?

Chumba, do you think self voting in RVS like that is scummy?

[Mizzytastic]

Kappy, what do you hope to achieve by moving your vote around?

Absolutely nothing. This is RVS.

But isn't the purpose of RVS to get us out of RVS?

I can think of reasons to self vote in RVS that I don't think are scummy, such as reaction tests. But I don't think we are getting anything like that out of Kappy right now. He seems to want to stay in RVS and I don't think "it's fun" is enough reason. My position isn't as strong as Chumba's but I'm happy for my vote to be a proper one now.

[Mizzytastic]

UNVOTE:

In all seriousness, I don't see a good target for a serious vote yet. I don't think kappy is in danger of being quick-lynched, but I don't want to be implicated if it does somehow happen while I am away.

Your worry is about being implicated, and not the (highly unlikely) quicklynch itself?

VOTE: karnos

I don't like kappy but it could just be playstyle silliness. This sounds like scum thinking.

[Mizzytastic]

Chumba, I'm confused. What is the difference between stating your opinion about something people don't like to explain why you don't think it is scummy and defending them?

[Mizzytastic]

Thank you karnos for reinforcing my read on you.

I don't like your vote. They'll either turn up or get replaced. Voting someone before they've turned up always just feels like a safe play for scum. Also you say kappy and sickofit are acting a little silly and

scummy

. Why vote for someone who hasn't turned up (which is pressure doing nothing, cos they haven't turned up) over someone you think has done scummy stuff?

I don't know, is not having an avatar a scumtell? More importantly, why do you ask? Cos it sounds like you want to call it a scum tell but want to know someone else will follow you first.

What was controversial about your post? You were voting on a viable wagon early game. To me that just sounds like playing the game. I don't get your reasoning. You seem really oversensitive to the fact that it might implicate you. You were voting it to what, L-3? If a quicklynch happened in that time why would your vote be the one that looked really bad? Mislynches happen, mislynches day 1 especially. It's not nice, but it's true. You have to accept that and take the plunge anyway. I don't get why not being implicated in a potential but very unlikely mislynch (unlikely cos of the quicklynch required) is playing to a town win con over putting pressure on someone you think is scummy.

Guys, you are accusing of Kappy of trying to look town in RVS, why aren't we on this too?

[Mizzytastic]

At least my explanation am sense to one person.

You guys better start fishing for better scum because ou have your rod in the wrong fishing hole.

What are you doing to fish for scum with this post? Cos I'm pretty sure you should be too. In fact looking at your ISO I dunno if I see much scumhunting at all.

Also, with your 124, there is a difference. Persivul didn't check something - that's contradicting the thread. You have said two things that contradict each other. The first suggests carelessness which if you follow this read is town. The latter suggests intentional deceit - how do you carelessly believe two different versions of events?

[Mizzytastic]

Or at least the first can suggest carelessness, it can also be deceitful. I don't see how the second can be careless.

[Mizzytastic]

Spoiler: Quotes go here

Thank you karnos for reinforcing my read on you.

I don't like your vote. They'll either turn up or get replaced. Voting someone before they've turned up always just feels like a safe play for scum. Also you say kappy and sickofit are acting a little silly and

scummy

. Why vote for someone who hasn't turned up (which is pressure doing nothing, cos they haven't turned up) over someone you think has done scummy stuff?

I don't know, is not having an avatar a scumtell? More importantly, why do you ask? Cos it sounds like you want to call it a scum tell but want to know someone else will follow you first.

What was controversial about your post? You were voting on a viable wagon early game. To me that just sounds like playing the game. I don't get your reasoning. You seem really oversensitive to the fact that it might implicate you.

Shady is a newbie with about a dozen posts, I was just trying to get him to add an avatar and it worked.

I don't like your vote either, do you want to fight about it? Not posting at all feels like a safe play for scum, and without a little tiny bit of pressure the hiding player can step in, make a minor observation and then hide again for awhile. If everyone had posted by now, I still might be voting for the player with the least posts, if I didn't think they posted any actual useful content.

Are you being obtuse? When I made the post, I immediately realized persivul had called out sickofit for doing virtually the same thing, and there was a bunch of back and forth on the topic. I decided I didn't want to get into that mess when I knew I would be out and unable to post. Now that I am back and able to post, bring it on

Then why ask whether it's a scumtell and not just explain why having an avatar is a good thing? It comes across as trying to get someone scumread for something that isn't scummy.

Lurking is NAI unless you have meta on a person to say otherwise. Town lurk, it happens. People can be not able to turn up for a day. People can miss game start pms. If you are later into a game and someone is showing habit of lurking, sure, try to get them more involved. More discussion is good. And it might be scumlurking afterall. But what good is putting a vote on someone who may not have looked at the game thread yet and might then start posting town without your encouragement. I think you are voting someone for something that is currently null over people you say you think have been scummy. And I think if Dierfire now turns up and is a model citizen it sounds like you are setting yourself up to get towncred from it because you were voting them to "get them to contribute".

I'm not being obtuse. I think right now you are more worried about looking good than finding scum. I think this is indicative of scum motivation. I don't think 'not being available' is a good enough reason for worrying about looking scummy because I think you could have just said you wouldn't be available for the rest of the day and not removed your vote and that would have been a fine reason not to immediately reply. You admit you were worried about being implicated by a highly unlikely event. I don't get why you would be seriously worried that happening as town. Even supposing you were I don't get why town would be worried about catching flak for persuing something they think is scummy. What is the town motivation for self preservation over hunting scum?

pedit - ooh, I do have to agree with karnos about this. I hate that line from sickofit too. Why should town stay out of your way if they think you are being scummy. Even if they turn out to be wrong isn't that what town is supposed to do?

[Mizzytastic]

All I see here is a scumteam(all of them)trying to take advantage of someone's minor mistake and making it look like a big commotion.
Look at Sick's wagon, there is certainly one scum hopping on that ride.
My best scumreads are everyone from that wagon, with Persivul and Saru being my strongest reads.
The wagon is driven by a reason that Sick contradicted himself. It doesn't look right when the town voted up someone for such a merely weak reason.
Join me with this one, the rest of you all willing to get a good win,

VOTE: Persivul

The logic in the second line sounds to me like you know sick is town. Why can't it be all town voting for scum?

[Mizzytastic]

All I see here is a scumteam(all of them)trying to take advantage of someone's minor mistake and making it look like a big commotion.
Look at Sick's wagon, there is certainly one scum hopping on that ride.
My best scumreads are everyone from that wagon, with Persivul and Saru being my strongest reads.
The wagon is driven by a reason that Sick contradicted himself. It doesn't look right when the town voted up someone for such a merely weak reason.
Join me with this one, the rest of you all willing to get a good win,

VOTE: Persivul

The logic in the second line sounds to me like you know sick is town. Why can't it be all town voting for scum?

Who wait are you insisting he is scum and knows I'm town?

I think he has phrased something that sounds like he knows you are town. I think that is scummmier than what you have done. I want to prod it and see his response.

[Mizzytastic]

Didn't mean to send that already. Ahh well, it got the main sentiment across. Main thing I was gonna add was that while I find you to have been scummy I'm not as down on this as some people are. If I were I'd have ended up on your wagon already.

Still want to see his response before I make any judgements.

[Mizzytastic]

Lurking is NAI unless you have meta on a person to say otherwise.?

Yes, and who wouldn't want their alignment indicated?

In general, I don't put a lot of trust in day 1 reads. Yes, I do have a couple players noted in the back of my mind as acting a bit suspicious, but I think they are already getting enough pressure and my vote isn't needed. So I'd rather get some discussion going among the less active players and see how they act and react before even thinking about who the first real lynch should be.

I tend to be a fairly active player when I'm not sleeping. Yesterday was an unusual day for me, so I was feeling a bit paranoid knowing I wouldn't be able to be actively posting. Maybe that paranoia made me come across as scummy.

You agree it is not alignment indicative, but then use it to imply that someone is scum. That does not follow.

Getting discussion going with less active people is good. I don't think voting someone who hasn't turned up yet is necessarily creating that discussion. And I think that some scum like to vote/attack lurkers cos it's an easy way to look protown without actually scumhunting.

Being paranoid about how you look does look scummy yes. That is what I've been saying all this time. Giving a reason to be paranoid is just admitting that you were.

My read has weakened a little because you seem willing to double down on stuff I'm calling scummy. Still, you haven't yet given me a convincing reason to think my complaints aren't scummy so I'm not gonna move my vote just yet.

[Mizzytastic]

Mobile post: sorry, connectivity issues, back within 24 hours!

That is about exactly what I didn't want to see. Nothing useful. Luckily for you, Mizzytastic is defending this style of play.

Yes, of course it's NAI. Am I supposed to accept that some players can hide their alignment by not posting or posting insignificant notes like the above and just give them a free pass?

Since my vote isn't doing anything as far as pressure thanks to Mizzy, and I don't expect to see another post from dierfire for awhile, I'll just try this.

VOTE: Kappy

We are past the RVS silliness, what are your serious reads now? Based on your read list, you rate sickofit and chumba as scummier, yet you are still voting persivul, any reason why?

Bullcrap, I was defending not having posted at all. I'm against consistent lurking. I don't believe you have enough evidence to make that claim yet. People have stuff like connectivity issues happen. Not everyone likes phoneposting. Wait 24 hours, see what manifests. If nothing does then go right ahead and look more closely.

[Mizzytastic]

I'm not going to be around today. I've been spending too much time on this site to the detriment of other stuff since I found it and I feel ill so taking a 24 hour break.

[Mizzytastic]

This is a unashamed prod-dodge, though I will read back up. I'm currrently having to sort some stuff out with the listmods. I will read up and try to post something later today, but I might be having to replace out. If I do I'll try to rememer to come back after the game to explain why.

For now though I do remember that Persivul asked me who I was ok voting. At the time he asked I was happy voting Karnos or Shady, as I wanted to poke Shady more - he had said some things I wasn't sure I was happy with. I could compromise on Kappy but I really wasn't sure if that was scummy or just style s it wasn't my favourite place. I wasn't sure about sick but once he had explained himself I didn't think it was the best place to vote. Especially as I felt like Shady had said something that might have been indicative of thinking he was town. Of course this is all 10 pages old now, but it's where I'm starting from when I read up.