Mini 1800 - Game Over

[qubixes]

Wow, this game is moving rather fast. I guess it's a good sing, though I hope I slows a bit down, so I can keep up!

Anyway, about sick. I am not too worried about this whole "lying" thing. It seems like a rather stupid thing to consciously lie about. I rather disliked his defense and also his attack on persivul with the attempt at a 1v1. However, I think that at this point it's more of a stylistic dislike than something that points to an actual scumread of him. That said, I'm not willing to give him a town pass either yet. With that:

UNVOTE:

If I read correctly, there are 3 people with some votes on the apart from sickofit: Persivul, Kappy and karnos.

I don't get the attacks in the direction of Persivul. I think he has been trying to move the game forward, while being honest and reasonable about it. Of course, scum can (and should) be reasonable too, but so far I haven't seen anything to convince me that Persivul is mafia.

I have some serious issues with Kappy's play so far. Most of which has been pointed out so far (and some that I think has not). At this point he is my strongest scum read. I'm not sure at how many votes he is right now, so I'll refrain from voting him right now. Interested to see how he will react to the pressure.

I also have some problems with karnos' play so far. 171 rings some serious scum bells in my head, and his previous posts are not much better imo. Now I think about it some more, I think karnos is probably a stronger read than Kappy.

VOTE: karnos

Feeling pretty tired today, so I don't think I'll be posting much more today. I'll be generally posting more in the weekends I suspect, just as a general guideline.

[species]

VOTE: Kappy

pls explain?

[Mizzytastic]

Mobile post: sorry, connectivity issues, back within 24 hours!

That is about exactly what I didn't want to see. Nothing useful. Luckily for you, Mizzytastic is defending this style of play.

Yes, of course it's NAI. Am I supposed to accept that some players can hide their alignment by not posting or posting insignificant notes like the above and just give them a free pass?

Since my vote isn't doing anything as far as pressure thanks to Mizzy, and I don't expect to see another post from dierfire for awhile, I'll just try this.

VOTE: Kappy

We are past the RVS silliness, what are your serious reads now? Based on your read list, you rate sickofit and chumba as scummier, yet you are still voting persivul, any reason why?

Bullcrap, I was defending not having posted at all. I'm against consistent lurking. I don't believe you have enough evidence to make that claim yet. People have stuff like connectivity issues happen. Not everyone likes phoneposting. Wait 24 hours, see what manifests. If nothing does then go right ahead and look more closely.

[Chumba]

Are you denying that people push null reads in order to sort them? If not, do you have meta on me to support your inference?

But that isn't what I saw you do and your post 150 supports that you didn't have a null read on him.

[Chumba]

I also want to point out that the post I quoted doesn't really make sense.

I don't disagree with people pushing on null reads in order to sort them but if for some reason I did, why would I need to have meta on you to support my opinion?

[karnos]

Bullcrap, I was defending not having posted at all. I'm against consistent lurking. I don't believe you have enough evidence to make that claim yet. People have stuff like connectivity issues happen. Not everyone likes phoneposting. Wait 24 hours, see what manifests. If nothing does then go right ahead and look more closely.

This is my FIRST response to you on the subject:

Not posting at all feels like a safe play for scum, and

without a little tiny bit of pressure the hiding player can step in, make a minor observation and then hide again for awhile

. If everyone had posted by now, I still might be voting for the player with the least posts, if I didn't think they posted any actual useful content.

I fucking called it. Exactly what I feared, happened- see bolded text above for emphasis. And your original response? "Lurking is NAI unless you have meta blah blah". I told you from the first response that I wasn't merely concerned with lurkers, I was also concerned with a lurker who posts the absolute minimum post and then goes back to lurking.

[Kappy]

{Percy, Mizzy} - I know some people don't like him, but Percy seems towny. Mizzy's posts 123 and 128 struck me as great.
{Goomba, Chumba} - Chumba was originally moderate scum for his constant defense that seemed like trying to escape suspicion, but recently he's been helping town.
{qubixes, karnos, Dierfire, Shady, Snork} - Dierfire if you have connection issues we understand. Just try to post something meaningful sometime. I feel qubixes has a lot more thoughts that he's not posting. I'm not sure why my read on Snork changed, rereading I don't know why I had him as moderate town.
{species} - species has posted throughout today and yesterday, and his only helpful post was 101.
{Sick} - Sick's 152 bothers me. 134 seemed like an excuse not to scumhunt.

On Mizzy vs karnos: I feel like this is nothing major. While 123 did point out some mistakes on karnos's part, and it was good noticing (is that correct grammer?), I feel like it is actually nothing important.

Percy vs Sick will merit it's own post.

[Persivul]

I fucking called it. Exactly what I feared, happened- see bolded text above for emphasis. And your original response? "Lurking is NAI unless you have meta blah blah". I told you from the first response that I wasn't merely concerned with lurkers, I was also concerned with a lurker who posts the absolute minimum post and then goes back to lurking.

She's right - inactivity is NAI absent meta to that effect. He also curtailed activity in another, later stage game. I doubt he's skipping out on that game because he's scum who's afraid to make a D1 post here. You get lurkers through associatives, investigatives, or vigs. Lynching one D1 gives no information and is a waste. Voting them is a lazy excuse for scum hunting.

[karnos]

She's right - inactivity is NAI absent meta to that effect. He also curtailed activity in another, later stage game. I doubt he's skipping out on that game because he's scum who's afraid to make a D1 post here. You get lurkers through associatives, investigatives, or vigs. Lynching one D1 gives no information and is a waste. Voting them is a lazy excuse for scum hunting.

Sigh.

- I wasn't expecting to lynch the person, but I was hoping at least the pressure of a vote would encourage him to post something useful when he does drop in from lurking. Of course I had to explain this to mizzy, which tends to remove any useful pressure from the act.

- I wasn't concerned about the lurking, I was concerned that the lurker would make an insignificant post as he did to dodge being prodded. I even said so in my original response, when I said if he had no lurkers I still probably would have voted the least active player to get them to post more. The hope was pressure of a vote might encourage a more substantial post when he comes out of lurking.

[karnos]

VOTE: karnos

Feeling pretty tired today, so I don't think I'll be posting much more today. I'll be generally posting more in the weekends I suspect, just as a general guideline.

Somehow I didn't pick up on this the first time I skimmed it. I see whats going on, I was aggressive towards hiding players, so qubixes heads me off and votes me first before he goes into hiding for the rest of the week. now I can't vote him without it being OMGUS!

I don't know, maybe this is something I need to learn from. I tend to distrust hiding players in every game, feel free to look at my game history. When you give them a free pass, how can you make sure scum doesn't abuse your goodwill?

[Persivul]

I tend to distrust hiding players in every game, feel free to look at my game history.

OK, I checked Newbie 1692. I didn't see you pressuring lurkers. On the contrary, a lot of your talk was about keeping pressure on someone who was at L-2.

[qubixes]

I fucking called it. Exactly what I feared, happened- see bolded text above for emphasis. And your original response? "Lurking is NAI unless you have meta blah blah". I told you from the first response that I wasn't merely concerned with lurkers, I was also concerned with a lurker who posts the absolute minimum post and then goes back to lurking.

This just feels like frustration of being scumread while others "get away" with not being active. I think it's genuine frustration. However, I also think this notion of unfairness is more likely to come from scum.

VOTE: karnos

Feeling pretty tired today, so I don't think I'll be posting much more today. I'll be generally posting more in the weekends I suspect, just as a general guideline.

Somehow I didn't pick up on this the first time I skimmed it. I see whats going on, I was aggressive towards hiding players, so qubixes heads me off and votes me first before he goes into hiding for the rest of the week. now I can't vote him without it being OMGUS!

I don't know, maybe this is something I need to learn from. I tend to distrust hiding players in every game, feel free to look at my game history. When you give them a free pass, how can you make sure scum doesn't abuse your goodwill?

Ha! You can vote me if you think I'm scum. Why are you so worried if it looks like an OMGUS? If you give solid reasoning why I'm scum, it's not OMGUS. You seriously think that I would vote you, because I'm afraid you're going to vote me for inactivity? Also self-meta doesn't look good to me. Apparently you're aware of what you normally do, and you do it here, so that proves... exactly nothing, except you want us to believe you're town?

[species]

If I read correctly, there are 3 people with some votes on the apart from sickofit: Persivul, Kappy and karnos.

Do you feel your vote necessarily needs to go on a pre-existing wagon?

[Chumba]

I tend to distrust hiding players in every game, feel free to look at my game history.

OK, I checked Newbie 1692. I didn't see you pressuring lurkers. On the contrary, a lot of your talk was about keeping pressure on someone who was at L-2.

interesting note here. I decided to take on further and look at 3 completed games. 2 games where he was town and 1 where he was scum.

Anyone want to take a guess as to which game he basically says the same as this game about hiding players?

[Kappy]

Scum? just taking a wild guess here.

[Persivul]

Scum - Open 638 - "I don't like the hiding... it makes me think you have something to hide."

[Chumba]

correct... not going to condemn him for that but i'll put him on my radar and go back and re-read his posts. Kind of glazed over them

[Kappy]

Looked it up myself. it's true!
VOTE: karnos
By saying hiding players are scum, a scum player implies that they, by posting, are town.
Percy, thank you for that meta analysis. I'm generally too lazy to check meta.

[karnos]

Ha! You can vote me if you think I'm scum. Why are you so worried if it looks like an OMGUS? If you give solid reasoning why I'm scum, it's not OMGUS. You seriously think that I would vote you, because I'm afraid you're going to vote me for inactivity? Also self-meta doesn't look good to me. Apparently you're aware of what you normally do, and you do it here, so that proves... exactly nothing, except you want us to believe you're town?

I meant that in a joking manner, maybe it wasn't obvious enough. I'd absolutely vote you if I thought you were really scum, but even if you are going to hide for a day or two you have been making readable posts prior to that so I don't really have an issue.

[Persivul]

Currently thinking species and one of kappy/karnos, but not both.

That implicate thing is bad, but karnos seems to be an awkward poster in general.

[Persivul]

Looked it up myself. it's true!

What exactly did you look for?

[MechaGoomba]

I am huge eye candy for an easy scum lunch d1. It's definitely happened before. My play style is sloppy and I am admitting that but it's a reach to say I'm contradicting myself for it.

[...]

If you are town, keep the fuck out of my way and help me scum hunt. If you are scum, keep following my scum filled wagon and expose yourself all the more.

"I'm being lynched because scum are voting me" reads as town frustration to me, but I'm not entirely sure. Can anyone that's played with sick before tell me if he does this often as town?

On Mizzy vs karnos: I feel like this is nothing major. While 123 did point out some mistakes on karnos's part, and it was good noticing (is that correct grammer?), I feel like it is actually nothing important.

Percy vs Sick will merit it's own post.

What is the difference between Mizzy vs. Karnos and Percy vs. Sick that makes you dismiss one out of hand but do an in-depth analysis on the other?


qubixes and Chumba are rapidly moving up my townlist for their ability to say exactly what I'm thinking.

I meant that in a joking manner, maybe it wasn't obvious enough.

If you're going to joke, put emoticons indicating it. Otherwise, we'd have every scummy post ever written off as a joke as soon as someone notices.

[Chumba]

If you're going to joke, put emoticons indicating it. Otherwise, we'd have every scummy post ever written off as a joke as soon as someone notices.

Good advice. tone/inflection/sarcasm/joking/etc can't be picked up reading posts on the interwebz

[karnos]

Scum - Open 638 - "I don't like the hiding... it makes me think you have something to hide."

Yes, and as town...

1700 In my (brief) experience playing here, I've noticed scum are often the quiet players who post the minimum amount to keep suspicion off, without trying to draw attention to themselves.

1692 Of course, I also find the quietest players are often that because they are mafia trying to keep a low profile, and the annoying talky players are sometimes just poorly playing townies, so you may yet be innocent.

It's part of my general thought process every game.

Also, FYI, 638 was multiball. While I was scum, I was also scum hunting to kill the other scum team.

I see kappy is sensing weakness and pouncing. I'm feeling better about re-voting him.

[Kappy]

Looked it up myself. it's true!

What exactly did you look for?

I looked for karnos saying about the hiding in that open game. I had to see it myself, not saying I don't trust you or anything, but I don't trust anyone in mafia.