Mini 1800 - Game Over


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Post Post #275 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:09 am

Post by Saru »

In post 274, Persivul wrote:
In post 270, Persivul wrote:What is the scum motivation? Why did I go out of my way to clear a person who I know to be an easy D1 mislynch target? Look to our last game together - he was a total VI, to the point of self hammering.
So your answer is?
Are you seriously asking me? Didn't I already say I agree with what you did with Sick wasn't bad in my previous post? Nothing wrong with it. Na-da. Zip. I also did the same thing.

From my previous post:
"As for your responses to me in post 270, I agree with your actions toward Sick being just fine. I did the same thing you did in that regard. That's not why I'm voting you though."

What a couple of seconds of reading can do for you. :D
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Post Post #276 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:13 am

Post by Saru »

Also, you say you clear Sick via town meta from a previous game.

In post 172, you say "A handful of posts matching meta from a single scum game is enough to create suspicion, but not a full scum read."

So then would you agree that a handful of posts matching town meta from a single game is not enough to confirm someone as town?
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Post Post #277 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:14 am

Post by Persivul »

Irony is lost on you... :cool:
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Post Post #278 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:15 am

Post by Saru »

In post 277, Persivul wrote:Irony is lost on you... :cool:
Nope. I had a feeling you would say this. Unlike you, I answered the question, twice, and clearly.
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Post Post #279 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:16 am

Post by Persivul »

In post 276, Saru wrote:Also, you say you clear Sick via town meta from a previous game.

In post 172, you say "A handful of posts matching meta from a single scum game is enough to create suspicion, but not a full scum read."

So then would you agree that a handful of posts matching town meta from a single game is not enough to confirm someone as town?
Confirm? No. Move to the town side of null? Yes.

What's scum!pers's motivation for moving an easy mislynch target to his town group?
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Post Post #280 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:23 am

Post by Saru »

In post 279, Persivul wrote:
In post 276, Saru wrote:Also, you say you clear Sick via town meta from a previous game.

In post 172, you say "A handful of posts matching meta from a single scum game is enough to create suspicion, but not a full scum read."

So then would you agree that a handful of posts matching town meta from a single game is not enough to confirm someone as town?
Confirm? No. Move to the town side of null? Yes.

What's scum!pers's motivation for moving an easy mislynch target to his town group?
Ok so then, if both lead to a null version of their respected alignment, that means for you Sick should be a null read and not a nulltown read as you said that he played to his scum meta in the start and then his town meta later on. Wouldn't the two cancel each other out in your eyes, leading to a simple null read? This isn't an accusation by the way, just curious as to your viewpoint.

And don't know why you keep asking me that second question as I haven't already answered. I've already told you that there is no scum motivation. I did the same thing you did. But let me guess, you're gonna say irony is lost on me. :lol:
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Post Post #281 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:33 am

Post by Persivul »

In post 280, Saru wrote: Ok so then, if both lead to a null version of their respected alignment, that means for you Sick should be a null read and not a nulltown read as you said that he played to his scum meta in the start and then his town meta later on. Wouldn't the two cancel each other out in your eyes, leading to a simple null read? This isn't an accusation by the way, just curious as to your viewpoint.
Reads evolve over time. I go with my most recent read. I don't average my reads over time to get my current read. Frankly that seems pretty stupid, and I'm surprised you advocate it.

Do you employ it yourself? You agree that my push on sick was townie. You find my lack of responsiveness to the question on the contradiction scummy. So, I should be a null read for you. Yet, you're voting me. Do you always vote your null reads?
And don't know why you keep asking me that second question as I haven't already answered.
That's why I keep asking - because you haven't already answered.
I've already told you that there is no scum motivation.
Oh fuck, you slipped!
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Post Post #282 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:35 am

Post by Persivul »

I'm done. You can have the last word. I get the feeling you're not scum, but rather bad town - bad enough you need to hide behind an alt. :mrgreen:
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Post Post #283 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:40 am

Post by Saru »

In post 281, Persivul wrote:
In post 280, Saru wrote: Ok so then, if both lead to a null version of their respected alignment, that means for you Sick should be a null read and not a nulltown read as you said that he played to his scum meta in the start and then his town meta later on. Wouldn't the two cancel each other out in your eyes, leading to a simple null read? This isn't an accusation by the way, just curious as to your viewpoint.
Reads evolve over time. I go with my most recent read. I don't average my reads over time to get my current read. Frankly that seems pretty stupid, and I'm surprised you advocate it.

Do you employ it yourself? You agree that my push on sick was townie. You find my lack of responsiveness to the question on the contradiction scummy. So, I should be a null read for you. Yet, you're voting me. Do you always vote your null reads?
And don't know why you keep asking me that second question as I haven't already answered.
That's why I keep asking - because you haven't already answered.
I've already told you that there is no scum motivation.
Oh fuck, you slipped!
Ok so as to your first point, I didn't advocate for the averaging out of reads. Good job putting words in my mouth like the good little scum you are. I don't employ it myself, so no, I don't need to have a null read on you because I don't follow that logic. Noticed how I asked "in your eyes" because I was looking for your viewpoint, as simple as that. That fact that you got so defensive to the point you had to put words in my mouth is hilarious. Obv scum is obv.

And no, I didn't slip. How dense are you? :lol: :lol:
I have already said OVER and OVER and OVER again that I'm not voting you for what you did with Sick. So me clearing you on that and not calling it scum motivation is not a slip. Your ability to read things(or lack thereof) are showing. Hide it quick before you're on the noose. :wink:
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Post Post #284 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:41 am

Post by Saru »

In post 282, Persivul wrote:I'm done. You can have the last word. I get the feeling you're not scum, but rather bad town - bad enough you need to hide behind an alt. :mrgreen:
Read my wiki, this isn't an alt. :facepalm:
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Post Post #285 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:50 am

Post by Saru »

Also it's supposed to say "And don't know why you keep asking me that second question as
if
I haven't already answered" in my post 280. Just noticed that.
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Post Post #286 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:50 am

Post by Persivul »

Players who were posting elsewhere on site but let that 1v1 go on uninterrupted: sick, karnos.

p-edit: NSS, that was the slip. :roll:
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Post Post #287 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:54 am

Post by Saru »

In post 286, Persivul wrote:Players who were posting elsewhere on site but let that 1v1 go on uninterrupted: sick, karnos.

p-edit:
NSS, that was the slip
. :roll:
Doesn't make sense but ok Sherlock. :roll:
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Post Post #288 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:22 am

Post by Persivul »

Unofficial VC

Pers (4) - sick, shady, saru, karn
sick (3) - snork, species, kappy
karnos (3) - mizzy, mecha, qubix
kappy (4) - chumba, pers, dier, mecha
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Post Post #289 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:34 am

Post by karnos »

I've been lurking, I've had a few thoughts but I wanted to see where the Persivul:Saru thing went. Since that seems to be sputtering out, I'll cut in.

One thing I want to comment on:
In post 251, Persivul wrote:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=66642

This game is now abandoned and can be cited. Check sick's play. He was town, but when pressured was very defensive and OMGUSsy. He even self-hammered as town. Compare that to this game where he was scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=66158

In that one he kept his cool except for a single post.

In this game he's in between those two. It reads to me closer to the first, and he said unprompted by me that he was toning down his style. So, I have him as town for now.
I find this a bit weird to me. You knew how he played in 640, and in 640 he got pushed hard and even eventually self-voted before flipping town. So in this game, you pushed him right from the start, as sort of a reaction test... but you knew how well that "test" worked in 640, what were you really trying to do? Give him enough rope to hang himself again? Were you thinking that if he was scum you would get a completely different reaction?
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Post Post #290 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:35 am

Post by Dierfire »

Spoiler: Not This Game
@Mizzytastic

I hope that you're feeling better soon.

@Snork

Congratulations to your niece!
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Post Post #291 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:36 am

Post by Dierfire »

@MechaGoomba

In post 232, MechaGoomba wrote:
In post 229, Dierfire wrote: The answer that comes to my mind is that Kappy and Sickofit1138 each had three votes with no other major wagons (as of ), so the desire to move votes away and perhaps open another wagon should be fairly strong.
I don't understand this. Percy is at the top of a lot of people's townlists, and, without really good arguments, that doesn't seem likely to change. Why not push the wagon on karnos instead? They had plenty of opportunity to, since it was a pretty viable wagon, but they both ignored it until there was seemingly-damning evidence, and then only Kappy jumped on.
For that to make sense with Sick and Kappy both being scum, karnos would also have to be scum, and at that point we're talking about having fingered the entire scumteam day 1, which does not happen unless one of the players is a god of scumhunting.

I could potentially see them both being scum, especially given how Sick conspicuously ignores Kappy, but something about it leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I don't want to do preflip associatives if at all possible. Could you help me figure this out?
Well, now that you mention it, karnos did have that weird on-and-off vote in and ! However, I don't think that we need to get that far ahead of ourselves. Kappy is behaving oddly towards Sickofit1138 and is suspicious regardless of whether Sickofit1138 is Town or Mafia. If we see Kappy flip Mafia then we can look again.
As for the question of why they would both move to Persivul as Mafia, my point is that they both had three votes and no other player had any votes (as of ). Kappy first moves not to Persivul but to Chumba (), later moving to Persivul in . So it wouldn't be the case that they both end up on Persivul out of some belief that he's the most viable wagon to push through to a lynch, but rather out of a belief that they can disengage from each other without seeming suspicious.
Anyway, you're right--one flip at a time.
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Post Post #292 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:46 am

Post by Persivul »

In post 289, karnos wrote:I find this a bit weird to me. You knew how he played in 640, and in 640 he got pushed hard and even eventually self-voted before flipping town. So in this game, you pushed him right from the start, as sort of a reaction test...
Yep.
but you knew how well that "test" worked in 640, what were you really trying to do? Give him enough rope to hang himself again?
Nope. Just because someone freaks out and self votes doesn't mean you never push them again. That's reinforcing the freak out. Plus, if it's going to happen, better now than in lylo.
Were you thinking that if he was scum you would get a completely different reaction?
Yes, I thought if he were scum he'd be better able to keep his cool, as in the linked game. As I said, his reaction came in somewhere between the two, but his explanation that he's consciously trying to stay cool as town seemed reasonable.
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Post Post #293 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:49 am

Post by Dierfire »

The conversation between Persivul and Saru bores me. From this, I conclude that they're both Town! (I'm only partially joking)
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Post Post #294 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:58 am

Post by Persivul »

In post 293, Dierfire wrote:The conversation between Persivul and Saru bores me. From this, I conclude that they're both Town! (I'm only partially joking)
That's why I cut it off.
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Post Post #295 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:01 am

Post by karnos »

Persivul: that is about what I expected to hear, whether from town or from scum trying to act like they aren't scum.
In post 294, Persivul wrote:
In post 293, Dierfire wrote:The conversation between Persivul and Saru bores me. From this, I conclude that they're both Town! (I'm only partially joking)
That's why I cut it off.
You cut it off because it makes you sound town, good time to stop? :wink:
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Post Post #296 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:06 am

Post by Persivul »

In post 295, karnos wrote:Persivul: that is about what I expected to hear, whether from town or from scum trying to act like they aren't scum.
So you asked a question which wouldn't help you determine alignment.

Just trying to look busy?
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Post Post #297 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:08 am

Post by karnos »

Expecting an answer and getting an answer are not the same thing. I was hoping you would surprise me.
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Post Post #298 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:16 am

Post by Persivul »

Why don't you surprise us all with a reads list?
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Post Post #299 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:34 am

Post by karnos »

Perhaps I will. I don't like giving a full road map to scum, but I do have some thoughts I could share.

But it won't happen right now, I need to leave work and pick up my son. Maybe later tonight.
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