Open 643: Kill All Townies! (Game Over)

[JaeReed]

(and it has to be tonight because I am sure she is dying tonight regardless of alignment).

Well, I am gonna die tonight since there's no town doctor, but devil's advocate, the only way I'd die N1 as scum is if we lynched my faction's doctor or if I was in fact my faction's doctor.

But this is true enough. Last multiball game, I nailed both scum and for my trouble ate the N1 nightkill as scum.

I have to admit, I've placed you in my top-tier for town, but I'm not absolutely sure you're town. It's more like you have

such

a good grasp of me, and where I'm coming from, that you'd be breaking my heart if you were scum.

...Also, pretty sure you'd get nightkilled too.

Huh... Guess I should try to remember the setup and what roles scum have.

Yup, I watched that. That's why I'm afraid you're going to wifom us if you're scum again I have trust issues where you're concerned.

... Um, thanks? >.< Now I feel bad for my recent posts... And I just made the sudden realization that you know I'm weak to AtE.

Why would I get nightkilled?

@Ranger when you get back... What did you think of these parts of Bella's post?

Well, Bella's still low on my list. I think she's not the highest-priority lynch. She seems to have some content which is good and looks to be scumhunting, but I think there is a very significant chance she's scum.

She should be higher, I think?

UNVOTE: she's dead tonight anyway and I probably shouldn't have bothered rereading :/ I'm sorry.

[Smithereens]

@Ranger,
Karnos, Jaereed and Charloux are not all town together or I'm a monkey's uncle.

I'm quite confident Jaereed is scum, refer to how he gave way under pressure and simply left when he was unable to refute the case against him.
Karnos is likely scum if Jaereed is scum for dismissing the idea that there are scum on the wagon in favour of lynching someone who isn't even playing the game in order to disassociate himself from a group that he appears to recognise as guilty.
Charloux I'll have to look closer at, but I remember some poor vote justifications caught my eye once.

You'll have to explain what you're seeing because I'm definitely not seeing it at all.

[Ranger]

Reads is not scumhunting.

But...but...
;_;

</3

I idolize Ranger.

<3

...Yet...

VOTE: Ranger

:(
</3

Plus she played with LQ in one of the games he linked where he was town so she knows in advance that he comes across as scummy when town.

The only town game I have with LicketyQuickety is when he was a hydra, with Titus. I was also a hydra. To be blunt, I don't think LicketyQuickety and I have had a game where we've shared the same alignment.

[JaeReed]

I'm quite confident Jaereed is scum, refer to how he gave way under pressure and simply left when he was unable to refute the case against him.

What? When did I leave because I couldn't refute a case?

[Ranger]

Ranger hasn't been contributing nearly as much as she has in the town games I've played with her.

I'd lie and say it was because of real life (well, that wouldn't be a lie, so much as a half-truth, half-lie), but to be perfectly honest, you're right.

There's a reason I'm playing this way, too.

Feel free to speculate, but this isn't something I'm going to tell you.

LQ you must not have known that Ranger was V/LA either... :\

I find it hard to believe he'd miss it.

[JaeReed]

Reads is not scumhunting.

But...but...
;_;

</3

I idolize Ranger.

<3

...Yet...

VOTE: Ranger

</3

Plus she played with LQ in one of the games he linked where he was town so she knows in advance that he comes across as scummy when town.

The only town game I have with LicketyQuickety is when he was a hydra, with Titus. I was also a hydra. To be blunt, I don't think LicketyQuickety and I have had a game where we've shared the same alignment.

I'm sorry Q_Q I'm so sorry. If it helps, I felt physically ill after doing it? >.< Apparently I still can't section you off properly.

Regarding the first point, your reads are an exception <3 I think I'm just gonna use this game to try and get better and figure out how you read people because I'm apparently sucking 100% right now across the board. Hopefully I can make like a sponge and absorb at least a little bit of it.

Also, you're right (again). I got the games he linked mixed up and thought his scum game was his town game when checking which you played with him in.

[Ranger]

Why would I get nightkilled?

For your role being "Backup Ranger".

The full package: lots of good insight, but also a decent amount of people thinking you're scum.

I still get nightkilled with that combo, so you--having it--could die N1 too.

Karnos, Jaereed and Charloux are not all town together or I'm a monkey's uncle.

Enjoy your new name.

[Smithereens]

Later on he reveals that Bellaphant convinced him that House isn't scum sided with LQ, however puzzlingly he scum reads Bellaphant and says

"I really want to respond to you as a person but I can't because I don't know for sure you're the same alignment as me"

post 200 For context, in the previous post he is clearly looking for reasons to call Bell suss post 192 even if he's trying to appeal to Ranger to do it. Talking about ranger, he's been ass kissing her this entire game. It's gets painfully overt here: post 188

Actually I was reading Bella as a townlean before. I did say in post 200 I thought Ranger was wrong on Bella. That said, just because it's less likely for House to be sided with LQ doesn't mean it's not possible he could be sided with Bella. I wanted Ranger to weigh in on that so I could get a look at whether Ranger was scum. And yes, I can't be sure she's the same alignment as me. I can't be sure anyone is without a flip. That doesn't mean I'm scumreading her, that just means that I know I can be wrong on my townread of her.

With regards to "defending" House... Questioning someone on their vote isn't defending. It's trying to sort the person who voted.

Decided to respond because my reads by page 3 are depressing me so I'm stopping for now.

sorry lol I missed this.

Could you explain your answer to the question? I'll lay out the history so it's unambiguous where I'm coming from.
1) Jae provides reason to scum read LQ and House
2) Jae scum reads LQ but not House
3) Jae is convinced that House isn't aligned with LQ
4) Jae continues to scum read LQ

2 and 3 are in the incorrect order, and 4 is not allowed if you're letting go of House. Imo it demonstrates premeditated voting. Your intention was to vote with the LQ wagon, your stated motive doesn't add up because it defies causality. Yet you still vote LQ because... Ranger votes him??

If ranger told you to walk off a cliff...

[DixC]

Here's my read on a back and forth from earlier:

Town morons just refuse to see that you are Town too.

I see this as chip is trying to insinuate that LQ should take hint: "I'm (pretending to be) town morons, other people (pretending to be town) should take the hint".

Then LQ responds:

And you are a Town read because you are not playing like an experienced player plays and inexperienced players are the easiest to read. Just FYI.

I see this as LQ trying to insinuate "You are a (pretend) town player because you are bad at playing and I can read what you are saying like an open book.

Then,

Have you ever noticed that those little guys roll their eyes in unison? How freaky is that?

As though to say "hey, i'm with scum" Chip insinuates himself as being linked with the only person near LQ on ranger's list: House.

Finally,

Chip, I get you, but you are confirmation biasing me pretty hard right now.

LQ gets frustrated with how blatant Chip is being and even says "hey, shut up about being scum before you get us both caught".

[Ranger]

If ranger told you to walk off a cliff...

...It would probably have some sort of netting to break the fall, calibrated such that the innocent would land on it fine but the guilty would plummet through.

[JaeReed]

Ranger...Why. You

know

how conflicted this is making me feel right? I think you're buddying me and I don't want it to stop Q.Q I'm nowhere near as good as you, not even for a backup. More like a pet puppy.

In fact, I was happier not feeling sick and I just went through your first reads list with the intention of working out why everyone ended up where they were. I can make sense of them now and I was just being silly. Sorry.

[Ranger]

I think you're buddying me and I don't want it to stop Q.Q

Uhhh...would it make you happier for me to say I am buddying you, or I'm not buddying you?

:P

[JaeReed]

Later on he reveals that Bellaphant convinced him that House isn't scum sided with LQ, however puzzlingly he scum reads Bellaphant and says

"I really want to respond to you as a person but I can't because I don't know for sure you're the same alignment as me"

post 200 For context, in the previous post he is clearly looking for reasons to call Bell suss post 192 even if he's trying to appeal to Ranger to do it. Talking about ranger, he's been ass kissing her this entire game. It's gets painfully overt here: post 188

Actually I was reading Bella as a townlean before. I did say in post 200 I thought Ranger was wrong on Bella. That said, just because it's less likely for House to be sided with LQ doesn't mean it's not possible he could be sided with Bella. I wanted Ranger to weigh in on that so I could get a look at whether Ranger was scum. And yes, I can't be sure she's the same alignment as me. I can't be sure anyone is without a flip. That doesn't mean I'm scumreading her, that just means that I know I can be wrong on my townread of her.

With regards to "defending" House... Questioning someone on their vote isn't defending. It's trying to sort the person who voted.

Decided to respond because my reads by page 3 are depressing me so I'm stopping for now.

sorry lol I missed this.

Could you explain your answer to the question? I'll lay out the history so it's unambiguous where I'm coming from.
1) Jae provides reason to scum read LQ and House
2) Jae scum reads LQ but not House
3) Jae is convinced that House isn't aligned with LQ
4) Jae continues to scum read LQ

2 and 3 are in the incorrect order, and 4 is not allowed if you're letting go of House. Imo it demonstrates premeditated voting. Your intention was to vote with the LQ wagon, your stated motive doesn't add up because it defies causality. Yet you still vote LQ because... Ranger votes him??

If ranger told you to walk off a cliff...

Yes, my intention was to vote LQ, even before I knew there was a wagon. I woke to a lot of new posts iirc. I always read through first then do my posts. It's just how I play. I was scumreading LQ way before the exchange with House, and not because Ranger was. If I was intending to sheep Ranger I'd say that flat out. I've done it before where I've not managed to get my own reads so went with the flow. I stated as such when I was doing it. I believe it was something like "Sheeping. Baa." but yeah, didn't do that this game, because I wasn't sheeping. I had my own scumread on the slot.

Point 1 was my reason to scumread House. Because by that stage I was already looking for associates, because I was that sure that LQ was scum. Here, I'll underline the main point for you and summarize it:

I was scumreading LQ prior to his interaction with House.

Get it yet?

[Smithereens]

If ranger told you to walk off a cliff...

...It would probably have some sort of netting to break the fall, calibrated such that the innocent would land on it fine but the guilty would plummet through.

Do you and Jae have some sort of in-game romance going on?

[JaeReed]

I think you're buddying me and I don't want it to stop Q.Q

Uhhh...would it make you happier for me to say I am buddying you, or I'm not buddying you?

Both responses would be buddying xD

It would honestly make me happiest if you flipped town so I could think that you were being honest with everything you said xP

Fun fact: I asked people to not let me make a fool of myself in front of you again. They have abandoned me. xD TOO LATE, GUYS. I'm lost and nothing can save me now!

[Smithereens]

Jae that isn't true at all. Refer to your ISO:
>Your third post in this game was your first mention of LQ, and it was the post where you posited scum theatre.
>You had not mentioned LQ before your third post.

"Point 1 was my reason to scumread House. Because by that stage I was already looking for associates, because I was that sure that LQ was scum"
You made absolutely no mention of LQ or house before your post where you mentioned them both for the first time...

[Smithereens]

oh lol, Jae X Ranger actually looks kinda real.

I won't ship it though, love between factions is forbidden. Refer to Romeo + Juliet.

[JaeReed]

Because I was asleep before my third post. Everything blew up during my night and as I read it I went "Wow yeah LQ is scum" and decided that's where I wanted to vote barring him already being at L1 or something. His posting was obv scum at that point. What? You want me to play the game while I'm sleeping? Do you? Because that would actually explain so much.

[Smithereens]

Because I was asleep before my third post. Everything blew up during my night and as I read it I went "Wow yeah LQ is scum" and decided that's where I wanted to vote barring him already being at L1 or something. His posting was obv scum at that point. What? You want me to play the game while I'm sleeping? Do you? Because that would actually explain so much.

If this were true you would have stated this first, not last. Rhetoric such as "

What? You want me to play the game while I'm sleeping? Do you?

" makes it look even worse.

[JaeReed]

VOTE: jaE

Hey hey

Hey hey Jury's still out on you, mate. Don't know what a non scum IC hippylop looks like yet. Don't have anything specifically I want to prod you about at this stage. Sorry for asking Bella and not you but I have a feeling she's townish <3 You can still try to IC me if you like! My trust for you right now is comparable to my thoughts on how good you are at CSing

Maybe I've been out of the game too long.

What do you mean by the abbreviations IC and CS as they are used in this post?

Inexperience-Challenged in a newbie that I replaced into. Hippylop was my IC. For my first newbie also, Bella replaced in as IC. I've been unfortunate to have never had a non-scum IC. Just finished cocktail party where singersigner was my IC and she was scum also :/

I just remembered you exist and I forgot to explain CS. It's a League of Legends thing. Short for Creep Score. I like to watch Hippylop's games and tell him he sucks from missing cs. It makes me feel better about how much I suck at it >.>

[JaeReed]

Because I was asleep before my third post. Everything blew up during my night and as I read it I went "Wow yeah LQ is scum" and decided that's where I wanted to vote barring him already being at L1 or something. His posting was obv scum at that point. What? You want me to play the game while I'm sleeping? Do you? Because that would actually explain so much.

If this were true you would have stated this first, not last. Rhetoric such as "

What? You want me to play the game while I'm sleeping? Do you?

" makes it look even worse.

Actually, I wasn't sleeping. Just checked the timestamp. It was Saturday 3pm. That day I didn't feel particularly like playing here and hosted song game instead, then I had to go shopping iirc. So it could have blown up during my day, but my point was that it was the first time I checked since around 8ish Friday night. I had the scumread on LQ based on things that had happened between my previous post and that post. I asked for Bella's opinion on the scum theater thing to try to get something to sort her and to check and whether my suspicion of House being LQ's partner was founded there.

I really don't see what you're trying to achieve here. You obviously don't want to correctly sort me, so why are you trying to engage me over something stupid that you're just going to confbias everything I say?

I can tell you the truth til I'm blue in the face and you still wouldn't believe that I was scumreading LQ prior to his interactions with House when I was reading the thread. I go to sleep, I like to do fun things with friends, I have to do rl stuff. I have a life however housebound I may be from my illness and I don't always spend it waiting here. It frustrates me that you seem to expect me to have commented somewhere prior to when I actually got in the fucking game. It's annoying and yeah it makes me lash out and then I feel bad because I don't like being prickly but it's

annoying

.

[JaeReed]

I think Jae has the right answer to this: It's not rocket science to follow a scum partner's lead, even without daytalk. It's not a "stupid" premise, and your calling it such looks like an overreaction. Also, Jae is right to point out that you seemed quick to jump onto his question to Bella to hose this down.

For the sake of argument, let's say that scum CAN stage conversations even without Daytalk. This brings us back to your question about why Jae assumed staging to be between scum of the same faction. If staging IS possible, it is obvious it can only be between scum of the same faction, right?

@Jae: Curious - why did you ask the question about LQ's exchange with House on that page, but not his earlier exchange on the same page with the "other House", aka Kuroi?

I didn't find that exchange to feel off, and didn't have any doubts about it that I felt a second opinion could help with. It felt like a town Kuroi reaching out to LQ in case he was town. Reads town vs scum there.

I was already scumreading LQ

and the exchange didn't do anything to make me think "huh, he might be town" whereas Kuroi's side seemed pretty town.

@Smither I did mention it earlier that I was scumreading LQ before the thing with House (and Kuroi)

[Smithereens]

I'm not sure why you're so desperate for me to drop my scum read. I'm not dropping it.

If we were to accept your stated reasoning, it would be literally impossible to play mafia. Why? If every scummy post could be explained away with "My thoughts were consistent even if my posts weren't" then not a single post in this game could be said to be scum indicative. You're basically saying that you don't think you deserve criticism for your inconsistency because you had thoughts which could reasonably explain them. Well sorry for casting doubt on you.

I don't think this issue is stupid at all. It comes down to your position that interprets your behaviour as a townie who appears to be scum, or mine: a scum who appears to be scum.

How to sum up your philosophy? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it's an elephant in disguise.

[Smithereens]

I think Jae has the right answer to this: It's not rocket science to follow a scum partner's lead, even without daytalk. It's not a "stupid" premise, and your calling it such looks like an overreaction. Also, Jae is right to point out that you seemed quick to jump onto his question to Bella to hose this down.

For the sake of argument, let's say that scum CAN stage conversations even without Daytalk. This brings us back to your question about why Jae assumed staging to be between scum of the same faction. If staging IS possible, it is obvious it can only be between scum of the same faction, right?

@Jae: Curious - why did you ask the question about LQ's exchange with House on that page, but not his earlier exchange on the same page with the "other House", aka Kuroi?

I didn't find that exchange to feel off, and didn't have any doubts about it that I felt a second opinion could help with. It felt like a town Kuroi reaching out to LQ in case he was town. Reads town vs scum there.

I was already scumreading LQ

and the exchange didn't do anything to make me think "huh, he might be town" whereas Kuroi's side seemed pretty town.

@Smither I did mention it earlier that I was scumreading LQ before the thing with House (and Kuroi)

I'd accept this as satisfactory. Apologies.

[Chip Butty]

Then,

Have you ever noticed that those little guys roll their eyes in unison? How freaky is that?

As though to say "hey, i'm with scum" Chip insinuates himself as being linked with the only person near LQ on ranger's list: House.