New York 196: My Game, My Flavor Mafia (Mafia Win)

[Almost50]

Great timing to start the game (6 am here!)

Anyway, just to say I'm here..

VOTE: Titus

She's drunk, yet she's voting "wake", so obviously has no intention to sober up soon

[Almost50]

Hi!

I only recognise one name here, so VOTE: Almost 50

I like the dog <3

Hi, shannon. I seem to remember the name but not recall what game we played together before. Care to refresh my rusty memory?

[Almost50]

@Dunn:

You broke your own rule by voting TWO other people after your #8, so I think you should be voting yourself. Fair is fair, brother!

[Almost50]

I'm drunk.

VOTE: Wake88

Fuck that guy.

OK.. I get it. So it's a prerequisite to be DRUNK in order to vote WAKE. Right?

[Almost50]

VOTE: Transcend

This is better

same

VOTE: Transcend

same

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_KmNZNT5xw[/youtube]

P.S. How THE FREAK do you post a Youtube video directly??

[Almost50]

VOTE: Trancend... Because lApsa only posted 11 smilies .... Then Trancend posted 12!!!!!

VOTE: sickofitnumbers

for misspelling my username

First *Sick* attempt at distancing detected. (Pun intended)

Hi all , just checking in for now. I'm so glad I got on the replacement list for this large normal, as they consistently need replacements. Didn't expect to replace in so quickly though. Anyway.

@Lapsa dude. I was surprised that you were also a PR in that game where I was 2-shot Cop . I hope you learned very much from games , to improve your townplay!

VOTE: no lynch voting no lynch for now.

I see familiar faces in this game as well as new ones. I don't want to say anyone else's name, specifically for fear of painting targets on their backs. I do see we have at least two people who've been ICs before or currently are ICs?

You're gonna fry for this. Not only that, but you're gonna fry for this. ("Thompson & Thompson", aka "Dupond et Dupont" style)

[Almost50]

My vote on Wake is serious based on group dynamic.

I don't know podoq at all, but I first need you to obv!town for me to sheep you on people I don't know. I know you can be tricky yourself if you're scum, so excuse me for not following your lead just yet.

[Almost50]

So this game is Honey Bunches of Clusterfuck already.


VOTE: Varsoon

I don't know him personally, but he's definitely shifty.

I know him well, but only as a mod, and I wouldn't want to mess with him lest he hands me a lousy role in his next game.

P.S. For the new players: Varsoon's games are the ULTIMATE challenge. You'd always struggle to just understand how the mechanics work (and by the time you do -IF you do- it might be too late already!)

[Almost50]

ummm town wouldnt type a post to stand out, that outs attention on them and away from hunting actual scum. ... so it sounds like you are insinuating that he is scum. i think it could be that you are scum pushing against an early mislynch.

SICK logic (again, pun intended). Although NAI, the logic is faulty bc scum wouldn't want to stand out so early either.

The thing is "sometimes" I would play like that if I was an insignificant townie (read: VT, but also note "sometimes"). I garb the spotlights for like half of the D1 so as to have SCUM hunting me down, and; although half the town would be too, the other half will be weighing their options and it's more likely than not that they will actually find a better lynch with well reasoning to vote for. This has the side-effect of blinding the scum from seeing PR crumbs and such, so -in effect- I would be protecting the town PRs in a way.

Now, why am I not doing this here? 2 reasons: 1- I don't feel like it (as in, I don't have the concentration and focus to do it ideally right now), and 2- because I haven't played with more than half of the player list, so it could very well backfire and I get mislynched 9which in it's own isn't a thing, except it would be a waste on D1).

Yaaay! My first rambling post of the day on the whole site. I guess the headache is wearing out.

[Almost50]

I HAVEN'T READ ANYTHING.
WHAT'S UP MY N-WORDS?
DON'T WORRY, I'M TOWN
I'VE GOT YOUR BACK.

OK.. I kind of forgot I played with you ONCE before. You were offed N1 though, but the caps reminded me of that game (Borderlands). Yup.. was too fast paced too, and I started playing pretty much towards the end of D1 so that one slipped my mind.

p.S. Am I grabbing enough attention yet??

[Almost50]

Use only the part after the = sign in the [youtube] boxes.

I've only watched the opening 13 sec. Those sum up what I wanted to say!

[Almost50]

Almost50 ———✶ I question podoboq's current vote. What do you think?

Not sure what you're talking about. Neither am I voting podoq nor is he voting me (at least on my count)

[Almost50]

Oh, I missed the last line. Get well soon, mate.

[Almost50]

Why would you consider voting with me?

Because you're a good town leader IF you're town???

You're currently voting me, which means you're scumreading me no?

It was my RVS, so I could not have developed any reads at that point. NO.

[Almost50]

If you think that my case might be sheepable,

If I did I would have been voting with you already regardless. A good case is a good case, besides I don't even know if this is single-ball, multi-ball, single-ball with 3P ..etc.

To me; SHEEPING would mean I have no preference myself (i.e. null read) so I would follow someone else's read. Notice that I said "on people I had no prior experience with" (I'm paraphrasing my own words)?? I won't be sheeping you on people I can read myself.

[Almost50]

Doubly so given I don't have an obvtown gene and you know this.

yeah, but when you're scum you obv!scum sooner than later (at least to me).

[Almost50]

VOTE: Almost50

Good for you! I was wondering when THAT will happen, actually!

[Almost50]

Why are you interrupting me Wake?

Almost, do you have any reads now?

Not really, no. But I know we need to keep the pressure on PV to keep him from lurking for the entire game!

VOTE: PeregrineV

P.S. I know he hasn't done it yet, but he is a well known and documented lurker, and bringing him back to game AFTER he starts lurking is harder than keeping him in it from the word go.

[Almost50]

His current vote on me. What do you think about it?

Unfortunately I don't have a read on you nor on him. I don't think I've played with either of you before, so it may take me a bit longer to get a read on either/both of you.

My preliminary conclusion (and this is probably carved on water or sand at best) is that some players consider you a threat in this game. If they're town they're afraid of scum!you. If they're scum they're afraid of town!you.

Ok.. I've just ISO'd podoq, and I don't see why he called you that even before you posted when he said he didn't know you. The key here is whether he said that with tongue-in-cheek (i.e. you're actually friends), or if it came out of nowhere. Care to share?

[Almost50]

Almost50, do you see that Titus is avoiding my point against her?

More people need to be aware of this.

I don't know how well you know Titus' play, but she does act stubborn at times. It's NAI of her. I'm looking for a couple of other things to get a better read on her though, so bear with me while I try to figure her out. (I do mean it when I say she's stubborn. She may even deliberately try to make herself hard to read for me just to prove me wrong if she though I was bragging I can read her or so. I've seen her get mod-killed on D1 along with RC bc BOTH were so stubborn to let go of a previous incident in a previous game. Oh, and both were town on that game if it matters at all).

[Almost50]

@Titus:

LOL. When was the last time you saw me following "logic" as you would expect it to be?? You've played with me more than anyone else in this game, so you should know better.

Need I remind you of me fake-claiming, then outright hard-claiming AND speculating about the setup (correctly) early on D1?? Where was "logic" in my play in that game?? Yet, if only the town listened to me early enough we might've won it still!!

[Almost50]

@Almost50

Who said anything about speed murdering him?

Me.

His playstyle is beyond abrasive, it's centered on division of the town and generally just not fun to play with.

I don't know this wake guy, but he sounds like an asshole.
VOTE: wake

My post was intended as a tongue in cheek respose to 71. I've never played with Wake before.

Ok, thank you

I guess that it's NAI then (your vote on wake). I'd consider it more of a RVS vote for now.

[Almost50]

I was modkilled. I didn't get modkilled. RC was using outside sources that were unattainable, and that was determined to be cheating. I was modkilled because modkilling RC without modkilling me would have framed me as scum and caused the town to burn a mislynch.

We lost that game regardless, but that's not the point. The point is you can be stubborn when you "want to be", and can be open-minded when you feel like it. That's all I'm saying. You can decide to play "with" the team, or you can decide to "play the team" in your own prerogative. At least that's how I perceive you. *Shrug*

[Almost50]

ok Zach mafia with either Shannon or Transcend

OK, who is NOT mafia in this game? Cuz you've voted or pointed the FoS on almost everything that moves thus far.

[Almost50]

...............I would think it'd be harder to win after you fake claim, then hard claim on day 1. I believe Aeronaut hosted a game this year where PRs outed themselves early on . Scum won that game.

I don't wish to distract or interrupt the game here, so here's the story of THAT game if you're interested:

Spoiler:

I was a BodyGuard, and we had 12 possible setups. I claimed something else to trick the scum into outing themselves by claiming that role didn't exist in that game (due to them knowing their own roles). Due to my own role I knew we only had 3 possible setups. Long story short, I did figure out the exact setup through my play, but the TOWN gave in to SCUM!Ranger rather than listen to me. It was hard to face both Ranger and Titus (albeit Titus was in a hydra) as scum, but my point stands: I tend to do "what appears to be illogical" moves at times, but I do have a very good logical reason behind them that is not (and should not be) apparent to everyone else.

[Almost50]

Alright let me break this one down for you

[Titus, Lapsa]
[Boem_u_dusi, implosion, Wake88]
[Nosferatu, Performer, Varsoon, Mirhawk]
[Airick10, Agar, podoboq, PeregrineV, shannon]
[Transcend, Almost50]
[Zachstralkita, Sickofit1138]

Right. Now let ME break it down for you:

[Titus, Lapsa]
[Boem_u_dusi, implosion,

Wake88

]
[

Nosferatu

, Performer, Varsoon, Mirhawk]
[Airick10, Agar,

podoboq

, PeregrineV,

shannon

]
[

Transcend

,

Almost50

]
[

Zachstralkita

,

Sickofit1138

]

In just 26 posts you voted 6 & stated suspicion of 2 = 8 total players thus far. Those you voted are marked in

red

, and those you FoS'd but didn't vote in

blue

.

P.S. Before you ask: Your 12 in response to Titus implies you ARE scum reading Wake, but can't vote him bc you only have one vote. You didn't say something along the lines of "I'm not scum reading him" or "I'm not sure about him" either. You implied willingness to vote there if you could.

As for Nos:

Probably because your reads suck

and/or you're mafia

hardly suggests you're town reading him too.

I can hardly see 6 scum in the setup (unless it's MB which I have no means to decide whether it is the case or not). 6 is too much IMHO, and 8 is like you're suspecting 42% of the player list already.

You know what? I'll leave you be for now. You do as you wish. Just letting you know that spreading suspicion about as many players is a scumtell of my own (i.e. I'm scum reading you now for that particular reason, as it looks like you just want to lynch someone regardless).

[Almost50]

Oh, and just for the record: You've totally ignored me on the PV wagon (not that anyone else acknowledged it, but still..) despite the fact he's right between two of your previously vote targets on your reads.

[Almost50]

"for now" is a key word in the context, my friend

[Almost50]

I don't like 325 because:

I never suspected Wake
I never suspected Nosferatu
My vote on podoboq was clearly an rvs wagon vote
My stuff on shannon is only if Zach is mafia

You can say I implied whatever but it's not true

Not gonna address the first 2 bc I've already said what I want to say in that post.

Regarding podoq, you voted him then shannon then him again. It was the only time you voted shannon too, although you did state suspicion of her later on. So, are you telling me that your podoq-shannon-podoq were RVS? how about your Trabscend-Transcend double vote? Were these RVS or serious??

In fact, since you were kind enough to provide a full read list I would very much appreciate a line or two explaining each read. Why are Titus/Lapsa townier than Boem, Implosion & Wake? What links do you see between the "bottom six" (using term with a grain of salt) that makes you think some of them are scum with eachother?

[Almost50]

Let's rope boem, imo.

Wait for Dunn's response, please. We may have better lynching options depending on the contents of said response.

[Almost50]

What the FROG!! So, ignoring you = scum?? Bc you say so is town?? And your #336 is ridiculous and scummy on it's own. re-read what I said. I said "we may have better lynching options" but never specified whom these might be. For you to take to mean I already intended to vote YOU is basically a subconscious scum!claim. You could've provided "something" for me to read through and decide if it's convincing AT ALL.

Sorry, mate.. but you're obv!scum to me right now.

VOTE: Dunn

[Almost50]

I got Macho role modifier

Bad town play ^^

[Almost50]

I got Macho role modifier

I love this gambit. Me too.

More so. Less townish though ^^

[Almost50]

You need to take a chill pill. And to unvote Dunnstral.

Not unless he towns up in MY eyes.

[Almost50]

A meta question, how the hell do you remember everyone, much less organise them in to a list like that? I am still experiencing overwhelm with the sheer volume of posts and unfamiliar names.

Use a text file to keep notes on individuals. Some put detailed remarks, others just use a point system or +/- rating or whatever. (I use colour shades)

[Almost50]

not to mention Titus and Lapsa have made it really fucking difficult for people to believe me when I say I'M the one with a Macho role modifier.

OK.. if there's a doctor in this setup, I CAN be protected!!

[Almost50]

@titus, who's the townbeard here?

My entire wagon but for Zach and maybe Podo

@titus, who's the townbeard here?

My entire wagon

so there's no scum?

i find your reply incoherent

This is like the worst misrep I have ever encountered in a mafia game, ever! And it was just a few posts below (i.e. on the same page) too!!!

@Lapsa:

I have you down as town, but I'm not so sure why I town read you now. care to explain the deliberate misrep??

[Almost50]

Catching up, btw.

[Almost50]

Remember how Dwlee got did in Borderlands Mafia? That's what you're doing to me right now.

Who are you an alt of? Cuz I don't recall you being in Borderlands at all!

[Almost50]

Your mod is here to tell Dunnstral happy birthday.

[Almost50]

He's an RC alt

WHAT THE ... *Slaps forehead*

[Almost50]

I want both varsoon and Mirhawk dead.

Investigative roles on zach or Shannon

WHY are you messing up almost ALL my town reads??

I've got Lapsa, Zach, Mirhawk, Performer, Varsoon & Titus at "likely town" by now. I also have Agar, shannon, Transcend & Boem as town leans, and it seems to me you only town read Titus & Boem of that whole lot. What gives? Are you purposefully being silly or are you playing on a higher level that evades me??

Oh, welp..

UNVOTE: Dunn

This can't be scum. If he was part of a team they would have all bussed him by now. If he was 3P he doesn't ever need so much attention and for the wrong reasons too (his reads suck big time). I'm not touching that slot with a pole until I know exactly where he's going with all this weirdness.

VOTE: PeregrineV

You come back here and actually say something FGS.

[Almost50]

If he is a well-documented lurker, I don't see the point of voting him like this? I've seen pressure votes work and not work, against lurkers. Peregrine, from what I recall of seeing games of his - he'll post when he wants. I foresee an incoming prod on him soon anyway. I don't see the point of your vote on him here, Almost.

First of all, yes.. PV would lurk as both alignments, so it's NAI. HOWEVER, his town lurking usually stems from lack of interest. Prodding him with pressure and interaction may actually work in keeping him interested enough to -at least- post more frequently. Otherwise, he's just dead weight.

His scum lurking though is a bit more calculated and he will then post when he pleases as you pointed it out.

I still have a LOT of catching up to do though, so I may or may not switch my vote when I get there.

[Almost50]

a50's 922 is awful and i wish i noticed that post earlier

VOTE: A50

Sorry to upset you, but if it feels better..

UNVOTE:

VOTE: PeregrineV

[Almost50]

can we agree to rope almost50

i think he might be a stellar lynch

I would most definitely ag... WHO??????

[Almost50]

i'll make a long post in due time.

I always thought "due time" IS when you call for someone's lynch out of nowhere!

[Almost50]

Everybody has been asking favors from me all over the place, wow. I am feeling so special now.

Except for me, so here goes: Could you please help me bring back PV in this game or throw him out of it permanently?? Thanks in advance, special one!

[Almost50]

Like I'm dead tonight anyway

Jah! Please don't pull a Ranger on us now. Just use your magic to get more votes on PV already.

[Almost50]

Prod dodge too.
Oh wait, I'm a mod.
(VC after shower)

Probably the BEST post in the thread. Please leave it and do the VC in a different post.

@EVERYONE:

How long should I expect to endure the pain of going through 300-400 posts per day?? You guys post more than my -currently- 3,323 friends on facebook!! (At least they don't actually REQUIRE me to read them all, nor do they judge me for skimming through them either!)

[Almost50]

VOTE: Titus
If only because absolutely no one has any love for my Dunnstral wagon.
Fuck like
You morons, I CALLED OUT SOMEONE FAKE-CLAIMING MASONS, CAUGHT THEM, AND EXPOSED HOW ANTI-TOWN THEY WERE AND YOU'RE STILL TOWNREADING THEM!?!

We've already lost before we've begun.

Varsoon; I firmly believe you're town by now, but I think you're mistaking about Titus here (and consequently on Dunn, although to a less degree of confidence in my own view). It's not beyond Titus to do crazy gambits like this one. I don't feel like going all the way town casing her, but Titus is NOT stupid. Stubborn, yes. Stupid?? Absolutely not.

[Almost50]

a50, opinions on a vedith lynch?

I'm neutral on that lynch. That sot has not provided much through either of it's occupiers. I guess I'll go with it if it's between Vedith & Titus though. I'd much rather Peregrine still, but I'm the only one who thinks PV is lurking scum.

My full reads (in no particular order):

Town: Lapsa, Dunn, Zach, Mirhawk, Performer, Varsoon, Titus
Leaning town: AGar, shannon, Transcend, Boem, podoboq, implosion
Not sure (i.e. null): Sick, Airick, Wake, Vedith
Leaning scum: Peregrine

And I do realize I have too many town reads vs too little scum reads, but that's the way it is and until I see a flip I cannot draw connections, so the above table maybe redone upside down with a flip.

[Almost50]

My fucking God people. Almost 100 pages and D1 isn't over. Absurd.

That IS my problem with this game. And too much flip-flopping on votes too. It's going to be a pain analyzing all this.

[Almost50]

How come you tr me

I'm not even going to THINK about doing an ISO right now to show what gave me town vibes about you. If I'm still alive on the next day I might be tempted to try to do it (at least I will know some of us are dead and won't be adding more posts when I'm done ISOing them for connections). Otherwise, I really hope someone would save me the pain and actually take me out at night so I won't have to do that reread anyway.

[Almost50]

@Performer:

Tell me what makes you town read Peregrine in this game?

[Almost50]

Here's the entire ISO of PV. His 25 posts thus far. Yes he does have reads, which could very well have been composed to mimic the most popular reads with little to no adjustment. Where and how did he reach these reads? What actual scum hunting/engagement did he provide?

I COULD blame it on the silly number of posts, I really could.. but having detailed reads at the same time is very odd to me. He either can't keep up thus should have vague reads or he IS following up so he should have much more content.

GDI! I edited out like a gazillion winks and it still says "Your message contains too many smilies". You guys ISO Peregrine on your own!!

@PV:

Is this a trick to prevent someone from quoting your whole ISO?

[Almost50]

@AGar:

You've just been relegated to a null read on my list, mate. You leave a L-4 wagon (which I do not approve of) to join a L-6 wagon, making then L-5 both, and you accuse others of letting the wagon you quit decimate?!!

[Almost50]

I could follow that, tbh. At least I'd know exactly why I'm doing it.

VOTE: AGar

[Almost50]

I wouldn't have expected anything less from the guy who votes anything that moves!

[Almost50]

OK.. call me naive, but I think I finally found the reason behind me having so many town reads. It's bc everytime some says they're STRONGLY against a lynch I tell myself they can't be scum together, bc scum wouldn't be stupid enough to defend a scum buddy that blatantly.

My options now are limited, and I might literally just sheep someone today. HOWEVER, even that proves to be a major pain in my butt! Why? Because I hardly know anyone here aside from Titus and Peregrine and.. Dunn. Everyone else I may have just one finished game with or none at all (I know Varsoon as a mod, but I've only ever played with him once and he died on N1).

So, no meta reads and my reads based on content are obviously off (and I keep myself it will work itself out with a flip or two, which we are bound to have by the start of D2).

UNVOTE:

OK, Titus, Varsoon & Zach: Are you willing to compromise on Sick?? Also, which one of you is opposing a Vedith lynch? (I know Dunn was, but is there anyone else?)

[Almost50]

Fuck no, I want Vedith.

The reason I'm Ok with a Sick lynch is he posted a grand total of just 11 times!! I also recall what I had perceived to be an attempt at distancing with Transcend, so a flip here would help define my stance on Transcend (who himself is a much more active player than Sick).

HOWEVER, I must admit he was much more active than this in the one game I had with him before where he flipped a mafia goon, so -maybe- I'm just remember him as a baddie from that game?? *Shrug*

[Almost50]

Actually; I'm going to do my own thing here.

VOTE: AGar

Everybody keeps saying Titus is scum (well, not EVERYBODY, but you know what I mean). AGar voted her at one point, but has hopped off her wagon to join the counter wagon. SHE voted him as the 3rd vote on his wagon. If this is/was a distancing maneuver then expect Titus to hop off that wagon as it grows bigger. If not, then she is not his scum buddy and she genuinely scum reads him.

Further more, AGar is the 2nd least poster next only to Sickofit. Not a major loss IF he flips town (but I don't think he will. I'd give it a 50-50 now, which is considerably higher than any other lynch given we're still in D1).

Now if AGar DOES flip scum AND Titus is on his wagon still then she is TOWN. If she hops of it, THEN (and ONLY THEN) will I start seeing your point about her maybe being scum.

I think I'm bound to do some rereading and ISOing of the less frequent posters next (I "think" I should have some time to do it within the next 24-48 hours), but the more active ones I will not be ISOing until I know who got lynched, who got NK'd and -most importantly- that I am still alive at the start of D2.

P-edit: HOLLY MOLLY!!! How did you guys manage to post 25 posts between me starting to compose this post of mine and me finishing it?????? And -even funnier- Dunn managed to vote TWICE within that period two!!!

[Almost50]

I'm not going to let Titus get lynched.

That's all that needs to be said

And I'm not going to stay awake any longer. That's all needs to be said at this end.

[Almost50]

I dislike a50's vote but I'm just going to assume this is multiple scum factions

Like me or not, that's your prerogative, but I find myself compelled to agree it MUST be MB because no wagon is going far enough.

[Almost50]

shannon still reads obvtown to me

I wish I had your vision. Trying to get players mod-killed IS in fact a scum tell.

[Almost50]

OK, first ISO: Sickofit (12 posts):
Disregarding the RVS vote; the

Wow and we're already out of RVS.

doesn't serve any purpose IMHO, but still I wouldn't make much of it on it's own, but then..

ummm town wouldnt type a post to stand out, that outs attention on them and away from hunting actual scum. ... so it sounds like you are insinuating that he is scum. i think it could be that you are scum pushing against an early mislynch.

IMHO this is quite the OPPOSITE of my own view. SCUM wouldn't type a post to stand out, bc SCUM are afraid of being in the spotlight. Town is never afraid of that, and is likely to do stupid stuff like that (especially so when they're not a significant PR).

Not just that, but he uses this faulty logic to throw dirt on a THIRD player altogether, and actually votes that third player (Mirhawk), saying it was MIRHAWK who was insinuating Transcent was scum (when -in fact- Mirthawk didn't decide on Transcend either way at this point).

Then this:

TLeaning almost50. putting himself too far out there in a 1v1 to be scum

Now which is it? Do town NOT "post to stand out", or do they "put themselves out too far"?

Oh, I forgot MY 109 which "may" explain the whole contradiction there. IF (conditional) Sick & Transcend were scum together then sick was indirectly defending his buddy subconsciously while looking for a reason to switch his vote off him. Either way Sick made the contradiction though not Transcend, so I'm more suspicious of him.

Next up:

Actually Zachary feels like stupid town to me. He is drawing too much suspicion to himself to be scum I think

Now I don't care if he was defending me or a strong town read of mine. The whole thing just doesn't add up. I'm feeling he's doing this to get town cred, and -in this case- Transcend may actually be TOWN too. This is why I'm not too sure I would want to link Sick to Transcend.

His 185 is non-committal at best, and his 547 is confusing. He's not getting himself into the Zach vs Titus thing, but IS voting Dunn, who IS indirectly involved in the Zach vs Titus thing!!

548 is a weird phrasing:

My bet? He's scum and looking for town cred when he gets lynched.

How do you look for "town cred" when you "get lynched"?? I presume he meant "so as NOT to get lynched" maybe?? But then, how does SICK know Titus alignment already?

Town: Titus, Zach, Shannon, Dunn, po, Agar
Scum: implosion, transcend, Lapsa, Wake

Wait. What?? I thought I was a town read of yours already! What happened during your holiday that put me back to null (obviously; since I'm on neither town nor scum lists).???

Then the replace out request (which -on it's own- is NAI, bc anyone who cannot keep up must've -at least- thought about it (yes, I did. But I never replaced out before, and I would hate to ruin the game for players and mod. I don't have RL issues that would FORCE me to replace out (such as a family catastrophe or internet connection dying on me ..) so I will finish what I started.)

Conclusion: Leaning scum, but won't be providing much info even if flipped.

[Almost50]

Second ISO: AGar (14 posts):

Apart from wanting speed lynch Wake I cannot see one informative sentence in his opening 5 posts (and the first half of the sixth). Then he scum reads Titus for .. reasons.. fine. He is VLA until June 27th (which I believe has been and gone) and still he's not providing much of anything.

In his 8th post 906 he provides more reasoning to scum reading Titus, and in the next one 1049 is talking to her about that previous game. he also scum reads Performer and indirectly defends both his own slot as well as Peregrine's (A D1 wagon on a lurker is useless as shit, as well, so let's not be silly.)

Post #1500 is still big quotes with nothing actually added but hollow commenting, then he's prod-dodging in 2281, then he decides to vote Vedith (whom he hasn't even said a word about before). Th funny thing is he pretends to be angry over the town "letting Titus off the hook" and he's voting one of the few who persistently pushed on Titus for the very reason AGar wants her lynched for.

His 13th & 14th are pretty much explaining why he hates Titus and thus is voting Vedith (or something!).

Conclusion: If this is town play we've lost the game already. A flip here "may" add plus points to Wake, Titus, Performer & Vedith. The latter in particular is town if AGar flips scum bc of the way he switched his vote to that wagon.

[Almost50]

Third ISO: Airick (20 posts):

I didn't like the "new to closed setup games" card he played in his opening post. Nothing else stands out except his vote on Varsoon on 2280 which -to me- is strange considering he town reads all other 3 who fake claimed masons.

The main reason though I'm moving Airick slightly off the bottom of my list is he appears to be trying (i.e. engaging and having actual reads) and not giving "whole sale" read lists while admitting not to have read most of the game. His reads are logical according to what he admits to have read of the game.

Conclusion: I'd put him at null still and expect more from him before I decide which way to move him. After all, lynching him today tells me absolutely nothing just yet.

[Almost50]

@Zach:

I'm weighing my options by going through the shorter ISOs here. I do need info as much as I need to lynch scum, so if I'm scum reading two players to the same level I would rather lynch the one that gives me more info.

P.S. If you're stuck with my phrasing "If this is town play ..etc" it should be interpreted as "this is in no way town play in my view" meaning I do scum read AGar too.

[Almost50]

Next ISO: Shannon (27 posts):

Going straight to:

Record for completed games is two losses as town and a win as scum.

This quote subconsciously put he at my "disposable" players list already. (I know, and I'm fighting that back consciously).

If I was a mafia team with him I'd have replaced out by now

Again gets negative points by default. "If I was mafia I would have done so and so" always does in my book.

In 351 She suggests Zach is not a great loss for town. I strongly disagree as he's being vocal (perhaps too vocal?) and I'm strongly town reading him. The "even if you're town" part is what gets to me. It's guys like Zach (if town-aligned) that will give us a chance to -at least- be competitive in this game.

352 does point to her being a newbie though, so I'm willing to give her more space to adapt before I jump on her.

In 357 she says I "look really townie" on page 14, but in 377 I'm a scum lean (!!). Now I don't mind being scum read (I get scum read more often than not anyway) but I'm wondering why one post of mine had more weigh in her read than an entire page, especially when the reason for her not liking that post is purely speculative.

After that point she gets more engaged 9compared to her earlier posts) and appears to be trying, and giving her the benefit of doubt I'm putting her at null until later.

Conclusion: Null until some flips lead to a connection or more of her posts lead me into either direction.

[Almost50]

Next up: GuyInFreezer (27 posts):

Mostly only posts VCs, and -judging by my experience- it's guys like him who always know exactly who's scum right from the start, yet won't share!! TELL US WHAT YOU KNOW OR GET LYNCHED FOR IT!!

[Almost50]

Next ISO: PeregrineV (31 posts):

63 RVS
64 Irrelevant
65 naked vote on Soft
92 criticizing Titus vote on Wake on the basis that he hadn't posted yet.
290 Still arguing (I'm not taking a stance here)
291 Nothing
300 gets bad vibes from implosion
303 implicitly suspects me
304 losing track, got to page 9, yet the one thing he did comment on was Titus vote on Wake.
473 Later
1466 Monday post
2213 ISO'd me. Votes me. Doesn't even say state a reason.
2217 wth
2223 His reasoning to voting me is "lack of content in my posts" and "voting him for no given reason"
2225 pulls a full read list out of his sleeve. When? Where? How? Nobody knows (at least, I don't.)
2227 Yeah, I could call THAT content compared with everything before.
2229 Not lynching Titus (i.e. the only player he actually criticized for their vote. If I didn't know better I would have assumed coaching at it's prime).
2230 responding to a question with a question
2238 reiterates same question (and dodges the original one which was: IS ZACH SCUMMY AS WELL? The answer to which is obviously NOT according to the read list, but answering that directly would have made the hunter become the hunted as HE would have to explain why!)
2248 nothing
2257 comes up with a BS case based on my early posts (and the problem is HE KNOWS that IS how I start certain games bc he has seen it before).
2260 OK, I'll play your game. implosion is scummy for town reading Almost for no content. Right. Now go back and ISO YOURSELF up to that very point and quote what you would call CONTENT in YOUR OWN POSTS! Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.
2262 humongous quotes with few words for commentary are generally made to make the poster look like they're posting lots to the naked/skimming eye. If you're not commenting on the whole thing, just edit out the unnecessary fill FGS.
2263 Yeah, we got that.
2500 real informative
2501 words of wisdom that actually mean nothing, but sound like they do

Then 4 newer post that still do not change much.

Conclusion: Lurk bag at best. Scum hiding behind the look of a lurker at worst. Either way lynching him is the town's gain, but -unfortunately- nothing could be gained in terms of info and connections from it, so he can wait.

[Almost50]

ISOing Vedith (previously Nosferatu):

Nos (12 posts):

Nothing much stands out. Mostly noncommittal, but he called me out on 139, didn't like implosion for unspecified reasons, and defended Dunn (I agree with his view that there were no inconsistencies there).

Vedith (42 posts):

I won't comment on each and every post, but I get the feeling that going against the tide and confronting Titus right to the face is a brave move from either alignment. It's a gambit if done by scum, but I'm leaning it's more likely a town move, although I don't agree with it being reason enough to lynch her. Also voting Shannon on policy is NAI.

Conclusion: I don't see how this could be interpreted as "exclusively scummy posting". I do see tunneling to a degree, but he's being consistent and composed under pressure. I'm also disregarding the soft claim for now. Filed under NULL.

ISOing Varsoon (57 posts):

First and foremost I have reason to believe Varsoon's absence was very much justified by RL events. I know for a fact he hasn't been available all over the site and I know why too (don't ask).

Varsoon strikes me as a player who is relying on both guts and emotions, which does explain his Dunn vote (no offense, but you ARE annoying to some, Dunn).

At this point I don't care whether Varsoon is a mason or not. The very fact that he called Titus' trick out and was very persistent makes him town in my eyes. There is absolutely no scum motivation in going out of your way to call someone on a fake claim like that. I only wish he could get over his overwhelming obsession with Dunn/Titus and start scum hunting elsewhere.

Conclusion: Strong Town Read

[Almost50]

ISOing Performer (88 posts):

Since I'm only explaining my reads here I need not go through anything beyond his opening post. "Vote No Lynch" is enough for me to get a town read on him. Contrary to popular belief, only TOWN would suggest a No Lynch so openly and that early. Scum know this move will put them at the very center of everyone's suspects list. Personally, I wouldn't dare suggest it if I was scum (and I wouldn't dare fake claim on D1 either). I know YMMD and all, but that's how I classify Performer until further notice. Nothing in his ISO makes me think otherwise either.

Mirhawk (88 posts):

By implication, his early duel with Sick over Performer's NL suggestion makes him a slight town lean. However, most of his posts are one liners and uninformative. I did like him asking about LAMIST, bc I didn't know what that was, but assumed it was a misspelled derivation of "lame" I also like his stance on the mason claims.

Conclusion: Upon reread I'm relegating him from Town to Town-Lean. There's nothing scummy in his ISO, but there's nothing strongly indicative of him being town either.

N.B. Shannon is now conf!town to me. The role claim was uncalled for, but it was also out of the blue (i.e. there was not much pressure on her). I wouldn't be lynching here bc -although uninformed- that's a vote that can help us. Scum are informed and will know where to vote 9and it certainly isn't in town's favour), while town -no matter how uninformed- are more likely to hit on scum sooner or later, besides.. if scum want to shoot her she's doing exactly what a VT should be doing, i.e. eating a bullet for the town PRs.

Everyone else has posted over 100 posts, and I'm not about to ISO them anytime soon. I'll wait and see how the day (and night) go before I start doing that.

Also, welcome beeboy.

[Almost50]

What scumteam would nightkill shannon?

One that wants to deprive town from (a) one conf!town, and (b) someone who IS voting them off

[Almost50]

Almost50, how come shannon is now confirmed town to you? What if I claimed something here out of the blue, would that make me confirmed town also? Tell me so I do that.

Are you as inexperienced as she is?? She pointed out her one previous game with me and -as I remember- EVERYONE in that game sucked to the point I eventually couldn't convince the remaining townie I subbed into a town slot no matter how hard I tried (not to mention I misread him in LyLo at 3-2, but they somehow managed to lynch the right person bc his buddy eventually bussed him).

Regardless, I'm seeing her as inexperienced town (but with room to improve, so don't take it bad, Shannon). I don't see what scum would claim a VT out of the blue and without pressure too.

[Almost50]

In post 2549 I ask Almost50 to do an iso of mirhawk; he goes on to do one of performer who is of similar length to mirhawk, but gives an excuse about length for "not doing other people"

And now I know you're skimming, bc I did do an ISO of Mirhawk in the very same post I did the performer ISO.

Not just that, but Boem quoted the whole post so if you missed it once you should've spotted it the second time!!!

[Almost50]

How is shannon conftown? Saying you're VT doesn't necessarily make it so, and even then she has to realize her claim was an anti-town move to begin with.

At least half of us have done anti-town stuff, mate. I ask again, and I want you to THINK about it.. when you had less than 5 games under your belt, would you have claimed ANYTHING as scum with just 2 votes on you (i.e. L-8)????

OK, second question: If you felt the heat and wanted to gambit -as scum- would you have claimed a VT in a CLOSED SETUP??

[Almost50]

Ok scum probably targeted me LMFAO but I had someone looking out for me

Probably no kill from mafia because I got docced.

Anyone else want to claim NOT doctor??

[Almost50]

Not sure why you were blaming me when you were also at fault for not saying L-1 and having voted as well

Tell me why should I believe you really didn't know the VC? You could've been just finishing off your buddy!

[Almost50]

Should we entertain the notion that if there's a Town PR like Jailkeeper or Roleblocker they should out who they targeted?

Why should any TPR out themselves at this time? It's not likt the JK/RB target will prove anything.

[Almost50]

VOTE: Almost50

VOTE: implosion

I'll be damned if I knew how that brain of yours works!!! You want ME lynched. Implosion votes ME. You immediately switch your vote from me to IMPLOSION. Was it a test to see who will jump on me first, while you actually town read me?? Do you think me and Implosion are scum partners and he is bussing? Do you just use the randomizer thing to decide on whom to vote for no apparent reason??

All you do is make noise and distract the town, and I bet scum are soaking their pants wet laughing at you. STOP IT ALREADY!

[Almost50]

I claimed vig genious

I did notice that, and -to my limited IQ- vig is NOT Doctor, hence my question remains!

[Almost50]

THAT maybe true, but then who killed Lapsa then??

[Almost50]

OK.. I'm totally lost, so you guys work it out.

1- I'm the Jailkeeper
2- Dunn didn't shoot Lapsa bc I Jailed HIM (Dunn).
3- I let him go with it to see if he was faking, and it looks to me that he totally believed his shit, so he may still be a vig and all, but he DID NOT SHOOT LAPSA! Period.

[Almost50]

I didn't want to claim either, because I figured it would be best play, but Dunn's misleading the town leading us in circles and it HAS TO STOP NOW!

[Almost50]

Ok first of all:

1. Almost50 you're dumb for claiming
2. You're half-dumb for roleblocking me (you protected me too so)
3. It's probably multiball after all. One mafia faction targetted Lapsa to try to kill mafia, another targeted me to get rid of town.

I'm dumb for claiming and you're a genius for attempting to shoot Lapsa, pushing for my lynch and misleading town into believing scum shot failed??

[Almost50]

@Dunn:

That is beside the point. the point is you're voting EVERYONE, accusing EVERYONE, and making a lot of noise with little to gain. I can't even wrap my head around half of the content of this thread bc of your noise. Tone it down a little. Focus. Give me something to read through, mate!

[Almost50]

anyways almost50, wagon performer with me innit yeah safe bruv

i may end up sheeping you if I finally give up, but I want to be back on Peregrine. WHERE is he anyway? Is he VLA too? I mean, half the site is going VLA already, and my games are getting mixed up.

Also, could someone remind me why beeboy is town??

[Almost50]

@A50 You're dead tonight from that claim, btw. Unless you role-block your killer or we have two protectives

Who cares? Just make sure we lynch SCUM by day and I'll be happy taking the shot tonight.

[Almost50]

A50, you're fucking stupid.

Thank you. I guess you would've preferred we go back and forth on me for the next week before I got to L-1 and claimed OR someone derp hammered before I even get to claim?? Let's not forget you also scum read me yesterday, so I claimed to save us time. Besides, me eating a bullet provides town with one more investigative result, no? I mean, if SCUM had a cop then we must have something like a Tracker or a WATCHER!

[Almost50]

Honestly claiming jailkeeper was a bad move, you don't even think I'm mafia or anything? Just wrong apparently

OK.. bad or good, it's done and over with. Saying it was a bad move won't take it back nor will it help catch scum.

OK, so Dunn, Zach & Shannon are totally off my table for the lynch. I'm likely to still give room for Varsoon and Titus too (though I'll have to admit the phrasing of the Varsoon post at the start of this day felt off to me). I probably don't want Boem or Wake lynched either, as I'm getting infrequent town vibes from them. Probably Airick too.

Other than those above; I'm open to suggestions, provided they're not "vote X bc they're scummy" or "their posts feel bad".

P.S. I almost got confused between this game and another, so if you see me mentioning something that so doesn't make sense at all (like mentioning a player or a mechanic that isn't even in this game) you should know it's that.

[Almost50]

Dunn was a last minute choice. I had always intended on jailing PV, but with Dunn's hammer that "he didn't know about" I started getting ideas, and I think he -of all- understands why.

[Almost50]

Are we going to keep arguing or are we actually ging to do something productive?

VOTE: Mirhawk

One of the 3 people who seem to quiet now for my liking, and the only one a wagon on them.

P.S. The other two are PV who is lost somewhere in a faraway galaxy, and beeboy who is acting like a 3-year old waiting for his mommy to pick him up from kindergarten.

[Almost50]

OH! Setup speculation!! My favourite subject!

Here's where I'm at:

Mafia Neapolitan flip gives both 1-shot Vig & Miller credit. Why? Bc they would return "Not Vanilla" to scum, so they would not just skip shooting them (i.e. good distraction).

The accepting the Miller = we have a town Cop (why else would we have a Miller??). So we have a cop and "they" had one. Makes me think they have at least 1 more PR (GF would suffice, but maybe something else due to hints of other PRs existence on the town side).

Back to game: Did anybody notice PV jumped the Mirhawk wagon as soon as Titus said everyone on either wagon was town?? No comment.

[Almost50]

Willing to Lynch Titus/Dunnstral Day 2?

(If you're playing please answer with 'Yes' or 'No.')

AGar

~ Yes/No

Airick10

~ Yes/No

Almost50

~ No

Beeboy

~ Yes/No

Boem_u_dusi

~ Yes/No

Dunnstral

~ Yes/No

implosion

~ Yes/No

Mirhawk

~ Yes/No

PeregrineV

~ Yes/No

Performer

~ Yes/No

podoboq

~ Yes/No

shannon

~ Yes/No

Titus

~ Yes/No

Transcend

~ Yes/No

Varsoon

~ Yes/No

Vedith

~ Yes/No

Zachstralkita

~ Yes/No

[Almost50]

Obviously this dance isn't for me. You buys go from one lynch to another in an astronomic speed. Everybody's got their own line of thinking and is pushing in a different direction.

I am legit and genuinely paranoid of PV. I don't see much pressure applied on that slot either. He's cruising by lurking in the shadows and you're all not willing to even consider this might be a scum slot.

OK, here's how it's done in FIFA, IOC and what not: Each and every one of us votes a player. Those who get less than 2 votes are dashed out and we all revote for one of the players remaining on the list. If nobody gets a majority the lest voted player is dashed out and the votes on him get to choose another lynch target .. until we do have a majority. How's that?

[Almost50]

It requires EVERY PLAYER to cooperate, and name their favorite lynch target MULTIPLE times, without informing hat decision on other peoples' picks. This just doesn't work.

EVERYBODY is already voting multiple times within a few hours. All my proposal does is limit their hopping options bit by bit until they have to agree on someone to lynch.

Right now I COULD start a vanity wagon on PV. What's to stop me? Nothing, except I'd probably be the only one there and my vote is wasted (i.e. not working FOR the town benefit). I'd rather vote for someone who is actually likely to get lynched AND is not a town read of mine. (PV fulfills the second condition, but -unfortunately- not the first.)

[Almost50]

EVERYBODY is already voting multiple times within a few hours.

No, between two and four players are.

A large number of players are just lurking, including the person you're intending to target. I'll help you out here.

VOTE: PeregrineV

That's much appreciated. Thank you

VOTE: PeregrineV

[Almost50]

Huh?

I wasn't actually sure myself.


A50 pls help

Help do what? I want to lynch inside the 3 lurkers. Besides they'll probably be a liability/heavy burden on our backs starting D3.

P-edit:

@AGar:

LOL.. good point, although they DO reach decisions regardless.

[Almost50]

I like Shannon and Zach for town btw

Them along with Dunn are my top 3 town reads, so I might as well join them (finally all 3 of Zach, Dunn & Titus agree on a lynch!!)

Intent to hammer in 24 hours (I think that's fair enough?)

[Almost50]

I then F then P then O then T then L (in that order)

[Almost50]

It's supposed to mean something, but there's no way anyone outside my country gets it.

Google image search is a thing, you know.. Mr Dražen Zečić

[Almost50]

I will eat your pancreas if you make me read the entire thread only to lynch me before I get the chance to say anything ♡♡♡

You need to check if they have diabetes first though.

[Almost50]

ftr even if im put at hammer range, i will claim only after i get a reads list in.
so like calm yo tits guys and move on to something else until i catch up and post my reads

this happens to be the scummiest of the slots posts thus far. WHAT does you catching up and developing reads have to do with telling us what your role PM says about your role??

[Almost50]

@Transcend:

You calling kraska town for no apparent reason earns you scum points regardless of her flip. I could see you as scum soft defending a partner or scum trying hard to earn town cred on a mislynch. If you have a reason to share as to why she's sounding town then please share.

[Almost50]

ve already invested time in reading and started taking notes, so i want to get a chance to sort people out and post my thoughts rather than get speed lynched

Who said anything about a speed lynch?? If we wanted that you would've been lynched already. What we do want is a CLAIM to ponder on while you yourself take the time developing reads and posting them. Right now you're keeping us all "idle" waiting for you to finish reading, which is not fair and IS a detriment to town regardless. Scum know who they are and can make good use of a "break" for their advantage, while I -for one- have nothing to do except to wait.

I hope the picture is clearer now. You claim and go back to reading while we confer and discuss possibilities from different angles, and even if you were to still be lynched it won't be a "speed lynch" anyway!

[Almost50]

Nah Wake is town

He is not.

I think he is, but I'm not betting money on it yet!

[Almost50]

Yeah, I guess not claiming to this point is ridiculous and mega stalling.

VOTE: kraska

[Almost50]

I don't have a whole lot to say but let me try to break down the possibilities and how I view them (regarding Mir & kraska):

1- Both are town (valid option): She scum reads him, he town reads her. En do f story. We should let them both be, but we don't know that.
2- Mir is scum, kraska is town (invalid): She scum reads him, but why is he NOT pushing back on her (being his counter wagon).?
3- kraska is scum, Mir is town (valid): She's rightfully fighting for her life and pushing the counter wagon, while he is calling it as he sees it.
4- Both are scum (valid): yeah, she has a better role than his and they decided if one of them must go it should be Mirhawk, and this is all theater double-layer distancing with her doing the aggression and him not fighting her back (as opposed to being at eachother's necks).

The above alone makes me pick her over him even if I don't trust him. Add to it that she refused to claim, but maybe I'm biased on this one because I tend to claim a lot under pressure, so -maybe- she's been there and is being stubborn as I've promised myself to be in the future.

P-edit: And now she tells us she a newbie, which adds more shade on her alibi to wait for her to have reads and stuff, not to mention the concept of not claiming when you're at L-1 is not exactly an option in Newbie games.

Oh, well. I'd still switch to PV if that one gains momentum anytime this season.

[Almost50]

So you're still playing that game of musical chairs hoping votes from one player to another just for the fun of it? Ok, cool!

VOTE: PV

[Almost50]

I N T E R E S T I N G ! ! !

And that's all I really have got to say.

P.S. I'm already voting PV, in case you haven't noticed.

Back-up Nurse is most like another role to limit the powers of a Neapolitan IMHO. Neapolitan would normally be a powerful role bc Mafia can then identify TPR to shoot, but with several roles giving false results that power is very much limited.

Now Even-Night Doc is not necessarily an indication of the existence of an Odd-Night one. It could be the case, or it could be that even nights are more dangerous (like, an Even-Night SK exists for instance). Of course I expect to be grilled for my "silly" propositions, so I'll shut up now, but I've already said it, so feel free to shoot your mouth loads at me.

[Almost50]

@Almost50 i recall podokhkjfjkl also saying neoplotian is not a strong role way back, I don't see how he would know this if he were scum

The only conclusion I could come up with is he himself has a useless TPR that gives scum a positive on him. In fact, it is this precise reason that is keeping me from voting him right now bc I'm not town reading anyone on Titus wagon except for Varsoon.

Now let me stick my neck out (and get it chopped for it), but why do I get the feeling you're suggesting Scum!podoq would know that also?? Do you think they received a "Hey, you're Mafia Neapolitan, but I've deliberately given most players some useless roles so that they would not investigate VT to you." kind of PM? Because I think it would be outrageously ridiculous if Scum were told about it beforehand. It would explain the bus and all (i.e. would make some of the voters on Vedith more likely scum) but I don't believe mods are likely to go through the trouble of picking all the roles and then telling the Mafia about their existence.

[Almost50]

Okay.

So I believe Varsoon's claim. I also can't imagine a moderator thinking of backup nurse as something to put in a setup unless there was actually a nurse.

But there's a simple problem here. Even night doctor + nurse + backup nurse + jailkeeper is just a ridiculous amount of town protective roles at first sight. Honestly, this is making me question Almost50's claim the most. I'm willing to bet that all of the doc roles are town, having all four of those as town roles would be a really strange amount of protective power and having one of the doc-nurse-backupnurse be scum would be really strange. I'm willing to call Varsoon 99.9% town, and Mirhawk somewhat likely town. Given the 1-shot vig being likely the only town killing role, the jailkeeper also makes more sense as scum than any of the doc roles. I doubt that scum would have a dedicated protective role to protect themselves against a lone 1-shot vig. The other possibility is that we are in multiball but I really don't think that's worth considering until we see a significant amount of concrete evidence.

I want to seriously re-evaluate Almost50's claim.

You can re-evaluate all you want, but I have a question for you:

Please explain why can't the Backup Nurse actually exist w/o a Nurse in play, for the sole purpose of giving a false to the already proven to have existed Scum Neapolitan?

I'm actually holding one more card close to my chest in case I'm being wagoned AGAIN for such a reason as "I can't imagine a moderator doing this". I could not imagine a moderator thinking of Varsoon's last game setup and I wouldn't have still if I wasn't in it too! Mods are like artists, and the more eccentric they get the more enjoyable the game is bc it becomes unpredictable.

[Almost50]

because what moderator in their right mind would conceive of the idea of a backup nurse without a nurse

if they were going for something like that they would just put a nurse without a doctor or a deputy without a cop. Those are sort of standby choices (along with miller) for moderators looking to add a named townie to a setup. They wouldn't think of it.

Well, we don't KNOW there isn't a deputy (or a Cop with no deputy for that matter). The former become "already done" in response to your suggestion, while the latter becomes "no can do".

Now as for the doctor -and precisely for our case here in this game- I guess the setup needed one. So, I'm MERELY SPECULATING- that either a Cop OR a Deputy is in play and thus the mod got cornered between including a Backup Nurse w/o there being a Nurse or adding a Backup Deputy.

Obviously I'm NOT an expert in setup balancing (I only modded one game that had a fixed standard open setup and still somehow managed to slip up to confirm TWO players roles, so I'll just shut up now!)

[Almost50]

I thought about it and I believe mirhawks claim >_>

You may believe any shit you want to believe, but we've got a flipped FULL DOCTOR already, so unless you show me how there could be another Doctor at all, I'm voting this:

Spoiler:

Mirhawk

[Almost50]

GDI

VOTE: Mirhawk

[Almost50]

Do you have anything else to bring to the table? Like, I don't know, elaboration?

Ya let's lynch A50 because town has too many protectives.

Getting desperate, are we??

Ladies & gentlemen, I present you the third scum:

BEEBOY

*Crowd roars and claps*

His "Miller" claim becomes an attempt to deter any guilty on him I think. But I will deal with you later, my friend.

[Almost50]

Almost50, who did you jail Nights 1 & 2?

Holy molly friggin' dang! You guys decided to get all fired up posting while I'm preparing to go to bed???

@Wake:

I already claimed my N1 JK was on Dunn. N2 I JK'd kraska.

I'll try to do a quick catch up before I sign off.

[Almost50]

^ I believe that and Mirhawks claim whether you guys like it or not

You must be either drunk/high or a really suicidal scumbag! I mean, his claim was basically proven false with the flip of PV. What are you? Nuts?

[Almost50]

or we have a town vig and dunnstral was a scum vig.

So we have town vig, scum vig and Mafia and we only have 1 kill per night? Or are you suggesting Dunn is actually the Mafia killer who got blocked N1 and the kill on Lapsa was a town vig who never claimed?? I'm not following.

[Almost50]

so we have an even night doctor, a doctor, a nurse and a back up nurse?
but then whats the point of the even night doctor's presence?

EXACTLY!

Yo dunn who did you shoot?

Didn't he claim 1-shot??

Nurse would also inherit from a scum doc.

Really?? Well, call me both a noob and naive, but how does that work?? The scum lose a Doc so the Town gains one?? Or are you suggesting their alignment would change in the middle of the game (which I believe is bastard)?

[Almost50]

Who knows

Still think Mirhawk is town lol

Ahem.. I'm sorry? Like.. I thought beeboy's brain was starting to malfunction from being in one too many games or something.

[Almost50]

Didn't a50 jailkeep dunn?

Who the fuck knows anymore

I do. I'm the one submitting the action, you know

Although, I did once submit an action and totally forgot whom I targeted and claimed a totally different target .. that was in Borderlands I believe. But this time I KNOW who I've jailed on both nights.

[Almost50]

I protected Titus night one. It was a toss up between her and wake.

Since when do EVEN NIGHT actions work on N1? I wuld've loved for that to be the case when I was an even night vig and died before I could use it!

[Almost50]

PEDIT: And fuck.... Mirhawk just slipped

Tbh, I don't like the tone of this. But I'm also half asleep, so ...

[Almost50]

VOTE: hawk

Yeah, right! As if you didn't know it when you got your role PM!

[Almost50]

A50 you need to announce who you've targeted; no use hiding this info

Why would I be hiding anything?? I do have other games to read though and I have a Facebook account to check. I posted the last time I checked here and when I came back I was 4 pages behind already!!

[Almost50]

If Dunnstral is town (very likely), Wake's yesterday lynchpool consisted of 3 town players (Titus, Dunnstral and me).

I'll have to ISO Airick10 before too long.

Currently I'm thinking:
POE: { Mirhawk, Wake }
Possibilities: { Airick10 }

Brace yourselves, lolcats are coming.

How about stoned-boy (aka beeboy)?

Disclaimer: Nothing personal, B. It's just a reference to your scummy behaviour, mate.

[Almost50]

is it possible mafia and sk targeted lapsa?

Yes. Actually, Mafia + SK + Town Vig + An Allien (this one I did see with my own eyes) all targeted Lapsa. OH, and possibly Werewolves did too!

[Almost50]

Why did you jailkeep kraska?

I would rather not discuss my complicated process of elimination. Suffice it to say we had some claims that were either BSing or aren't worth protecting. Then there's also the "uncertainty" factor. You know, when you're not sure if this person was a Town PR or scum??

[Almost50]

OK.

I shot at mirhawk and he didn't die, which means either I was roleblocked (even though I claimed 1-shot, someone thought I was lying) or a scum protective targeted mirhawk

For the record I'm actually a

2

-shot vig

I claimed 1-shot because I wanted to clarify that the lapsa kill was me (though it wasn't apparently), and because I wanted to be not roleblocked for me next kill

So, scum have a Doctor too?? The whole school of Medicine and Nursing is in this game???

[Almost50]

dunn shooting mirhawk and him staying alive is also REALLY REALLY interesting especially if he flips mafia even night doctor but ugh i need to sleep.

If he was even night doctor at all he would not have forgotten he had no action on N1. He is NOT a doctor, and the fact he survived a vig-shot proves it (unless scum doctors can target themselves).

[Almost50]

Almost50, you didn't answer my question. Why did you jailkeep kraska? Walk me through your thought process.

I did now. The thing is I respond to posts as I read them and I read them in the order they were posted, and you guys could help me if you stopped posting for a few minutes for me to be able to be on the same page at least!

[Almost50]

he was convinced im scum day 2 -__- just iso him, the latter part of his day 2 posts are focused on me for the most part
he jailed me bc he thought im scum

I did, yes.. but with PV flipping and Mirhawk's claim I had my doubts. I didn't know whether you would be scum or the Cop (we obviously don't have one and that Miller thing is a stupid claim, but whatever). If I ONLY thought you to be scum I wouldn't have jailed you, bc I have some strange logic that dictates an outed Mafia member should be doing the kill themselves in case we had a Tracker/Watcher. Mirhawk was that to me (outed scum), so I probably would've jailed him over you if I was trying to block the kill from the source.

However, you refusing to claim and then Dunn defending it gave me ideas you might be the Cop and then someone else would shoot you maybe, and I decided you need to survive to be tested today. I'm sorry if you did have an action that I blocked.

[Almost50]

I just needed to know if you roleblocked me. (or mirhawk)

Nope. didn't head your way, nor his.

[Almost50]

Or you're a mafia role cop.

Come on, mate. Like, if I'm not confusing my games already, I thought we did have a Scum Neapolitan flip. Would it be possible for both Neapolitan & Role Cop to exist in the same setup AND be of the same alignment?

[Almost50]

a50 who did you roleblock today?

*Scratches Head*

Airick!! This is getting confusing. we have at least 2 Mafioso members on the lose, and I'm not sure if the second kill the comes from vig or some second killing role with X shots. And yes, 2 Machos apparently were in the setup together, so I'm confused as hell.

My list of suspects include Transcend, beeboy and AGar, but I have no case on either tbh. Any good ideas?

[Almost50]

VOTE: a50

Who are your keep jail target

S

?

Someone needs to actually read the bloody thread!

[Almost50]

Those kills leave us at 13 players

I thought we should be 12 now??

Not Voting: AGar, Mirhawk, implosion, Airick10, Zachstralkita, Varsoon, Almost50, Boem_u_dusi, Transcend, kraska77, beeboy, shannon, Dunnstral

Mirhawk is back?!!!!! When?? Why??

[Almost50]

What other results do you have?

Jesus, man!! Even if you did miss it it's not that hard to do a quick ISO and skim through his latest posts to see if he said that already!! Dunn was his N2 target and he said Dunn "visited" someone, while his N1 action on Varsoon resulted in varsoon being visited, and it caused lot of discussion on whether a Motion Detector should only sense "action" from the spot regardless of them being the one submitting or receiving it or should also know if it went out or got in.

Anyway, Airick might be scum yes, but he's not the one who shot "whoever the Mafia shot of the two" last night. But if there's another anti-town killing role then he's right back in it (the kills of last night) too. If it was Dunn who shot Wake/podoq then Airick steps back a little in favour of finding the actual killer.

[Almost50]

VOTE: zac

hey i think i like dunnstral's theory of wake + zach scum..... let's get.... zach..... wake tomorrow haha

This is a joke, granted. But the mod would still count the vote..

[Almost50]

I'm a one shot lynch proof serial killer.

Scum claiming scum is becoming a fad. I did it in Soccer Spirits. Nahdia did it in Bloodborne, so why should I not believe this one?

VOTE: kraska

[Almost50]

OK, happy lynch day, kraska

Seriously though, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

[Almost50]

JK claim not dying with scum dwindling looks like BAD NEWS for A50 btw

I do agree on this, btw. FULLY. However, they may just be doing this to actually get you to this point, and seeing as I'm not as great in actually making cases I'm not a big threat by day. That OR they still believe there's a Doctor in the setup and suspect they'd be protecting me, so are looking for them first. I obviously only blocked a TOWN shot on the first night (not that it prevented the kill either), but the killer(s) are obviously not on my list.

Wait! It still could be someone I jailed PREVIOUSLY (namely kraska in this case). Seeing as I already jailed her last night she then is almost certain it won't be the case 2 night in a row.

@Dunn:

PLEASE come here soon and tell us if that was you before my mind starts going places.

[Almost50]

Along with Varsoon the doctor/nurse/back-up I have no fucking idea but he's conf town since motion WAS detected on him

Wait! This just hit me.

kraska IS a serial killer. Her slot targeted Varsoon on N1, but he is BP so didn't die. She was jailed on N2, so no kill from her either. On N3 she did the kill. This theory stands UNLESS Dunn claims a 3rd shot.

My vote is fortified with cement, and if Dunn didn't shoot last night AND kraska flips town I will be happy to eat the rope next. No questions.

[Almost50]

Only investigative role that town has heard from is ME and my role is super weak as it is.

Well, I'm about to prove to you that JK COULD be used as an investigating role too. It's one of the basics you learn in BEGINNERS games.

[Almost50]

Almost50, why did you roleblock Airick10?

Him, AGar, kraska & implosion are the only 4 claimed. I'm leaning town on implosion and Zach says AGar is town. kraska I already jailed on N2, so it was Airick of the unclaimed, or beeboy (the Miller who I don't even believe their claim anymore).

[Almost50]

A50 your reads make me think you are scum

Well, frankly your whole play doesn't give me much faith in you either. You're not even reading or taking notes, bro.

[Almost50]

Those are Mirhawk's exact words. It's a running gag.

Did Mirhawk claim scum in Soccer Spirits, and even specify one of his partners?? I did (Nah! Not voting my scum partner. I would rather lunch Town!DS instead.)

I'm speaking of 2 most recent games I was involved in. The last one was Bloodborne and Nahdia did say something like "I'm a 3P who wins with town. No. Not really. I do NOT win with town" and went on to sweep the game on her own. I also won with Wisdom and .. *drum roll* beeboy in Soccer Spirits although I made that claim on D1.

What I'm saying is I'm now more wary of scum claims outright, but if it's someone like Kuroi then I wouldn't take them on it bc he's like the Master of trolling in this particular manner.

[Almost50]

A50 back me up on this lynch son

I would, but I'm like 80% kraska is the OTHER killing role, so it's better to lynch her first or we lose two more townies on N4. But I'll consider the option of switching my vote as soon as I'm fully caught up.

[Almost50]

Vote: Zachstralkita

On second thoughts, Airick may be the lynch of the day!

[Almost50]

Almost50, I thought you jailed Dunnstral N2? Can you list all your night actions in one post, I'm having trouble following your train of thought.

Dunn on N1
kraska on N2
Airick on N3
?? on N4

[Almost50]

Wait, can you explain that theory in more detail?

I already did, but I need both Dunn and Varsoon to confirm or refute my theory.

PV did not protect anyone on N1. We only had one kill. I blocked the Vig shot on Lapsa, but he still died. A third killing role (2nd scum kill) failed at someone. That was either Zach (claimed BP) or Varsoon (maybe BP but didn't claim it?). The reason i think it might be Varsoon is Transcend saying Varsoon got visited on N1, and nobody claimed that visit as of yet.

On N2 we also had only 1 kill. The Vig shot went astray due to Mirhawk commuting. Chances are extremely small someone shot Varsoon on N1 and then shot Zach on N2 (or vice versa) thus the one I jailed was either the target or the shooter.

On n3 we have 2 kills. Dunn claimed 2-shot, so unless he was bluffing twice that second kill wasn't from him. One of the deaths occurred on a (false) claimed Bomb/PGO (who would be so bald as to target a claimed bomb?? I fail to understand that one).

Well, yeah.. I'm confused and the chances of kraska flipping scum are much lower than 80% it looks. She could've been the target of the shot for all I know. I take back the "positive" case and would relegate it to a mere possibility.

Now Varsoon comes and says his not a BP and it might be that the N1 shot was on Zach still. However, Dunn saying he had a 2rd shot shoots down my theory bc evidently there would be no 3rd killing role to begin with.

[Almost50]

@A50 I claimed scum outright. How come you don't want to lynch me?

You claimed scum with an already flipped town. That's not the same as claiming 3rd party (or even scum with someone who IS still unflipped).

[Almost50]

Wait, when the fuck did I claim BP?

Maybe you didn't claim outright but you hinted or crumbed or something. Just like Wake never outright claimed bomb/PGO but he sure as hell made it clear that's what he was claiming. I have this (BP??) next to your name on my word file and it must've come from one of your posts but as there is uncertainty (the ??) you didn't claim it outright.

[Almost50]

Oh, ok then. Ignore all the poop I've been spreading for hours now. So, no SK in the setup.

[Almost50]

Frankly I'm getting bored, and I don't think my prime suspect (beeboy) is getting enough attention, so let's just end the day.

VOTE: Airick

[Almost50]

beeboy

,

Town Odd-Night Cop

, was killed Night 4.[/area

Really?!

Well, I probably messed up then.

I was going to Jail beeboy last night bc he was my top suspect, but figured if I was wrong a kill would go through anyway, so opted to protect Zach instead!

I had previously thought he was BP and was counting on that to protect him, but when I put it in the open his response gave me the impression I made the wrong assumption there and I couldn't even find where I got it from.

So, anyway .. Zack was my N4 target, and before people start confusing themselves and asking again:

Dunn on N1
kraska on N2
Airick on N3
Zach on N4

[Almost50]

I assume 1-2 mafia or 1 mafia and one SK so we're doing pretty good so far.

Why the SK? Where's the 2nd kill? So far, apart form the kills Dunn claimed we only had one kill per night.

I don't believe Almost50 is a jailkeeper at this point,

I'll play. Let's ASSUME for the sake of argument (and I can't stress more on this being a HYPOTHETICAL assumption, bc I AM a JK). This only leaves us with 2 possibilities:

1- I'm town and BSing like many of you have been.
2- I'm scum and KNEW my OWN PARTNER was a JK, yet I opted to claim a JK of all possible fake claims available in the wiki.

Take a pick.

I missed that it was D3. So Varsoon was checked and ... ?

Could you be a little bit more precise? beeboy had TWO CHECKS. So far you've cleared AGar, Shannon, Varsoon and claimed he could've got a guilty on me (but kept it to himself for some reason).

Now I'm starting to think beeboy was shot for you to try and push the lynch on "someone" and then you're starting to buddy up with some people to get them to vote your way.

FoS: Boem

Beeboy kills seems more like a vig shot than NK.

And now it's a vig shot! Great. I will -once again- play. So, where is the Mafia kill? It must've been on Zach then. WAIT1 but you think I'm Mafia myself and I'm not a JK either. So who prevented that kill?

Beeboy was the only kill so I guess jailkeeper protected someone or caught the killer.

FINALLY! Thank you for coming to your senses.

FoS /OFF

Anyway, I've got other games and a real life to attend to, so I'll be back later. Cheers.

[Almost50]

Almost50 I should slap you in the fucking beak why did you JK me the most town person in this fucking game?

I explained. I wanted to PROTECT you from the NK. I wasn't too positive on beeboy being scum. If I opted to protect him I would have prevented the kill on him, but either YOU would've died or there would have been no kills, so chances are we would have been lynching him anyway I suspect!

I kind of ran out of ideas here.

[Almost50]

Let me drop one of those moon logic assumptions of mine and leave it here: Why hasn't anybody thought of a possible Ninja? Is Ninja not normal? If it's normal, then doesn't it make sense with a motion detector in play? I mean, the Mafia had a Neapolitan who would've got 2 at least false positives on Macho roles. Why wouldn't the main investigative town role (albeit a weak investigative) have one to give the same? If they were Cop it'd have been GF instead.

Also, I'm not too sure a Doctor could exist with a JK I'd have to agree, and I have always assumed Varsoon was a mere named townie tbh, but I'm also playing a little selfish here. As long as the Doctor is alive (whether or not implosion IS a doctor) I should be OK, bc if he claims to protect me and I still get shot that would blow his cover if Scum, and I'm actually protected if he's a real Doctor.

kraska's play is townie of late, but I can't get over the "I'm not claiming or it will make my role useless" thing (paraphrasing).

Something does not compute right here, but I can't pin point it.

[Almost50]

Why Dunn?? Dunn only shot Town thus far, so I fail to see why he would be the NK over me, Trans or implosion.

Assuming no Ninja modifier Varsoon should confirmed now, and it's not Zach bc I jailed him again last night

[Almost50]

I'm now more suspicious of the other 3 VT claims.

@Transcend:

Care to remind me who you targeted on N4 and what was the result. I seem to remember it was Varsoon, but I'm not sure if it was N4 or N3.

P-edit:

Yeah, this should be straight forward, but I'm still wary of some Ninja effect bc of the inclusion of a motion detector in the setup.

VOTE: Boem

[Almost50]

kraska is clear.

VOTE: shannon

I can't get over the thought that a Ninja is very likely with a motion detector here.

[Almost50]

Actually, that's not too bad an idea.

VOTE: NL

[Almost50]

@Zach:

I don't get what IS suspicious about it? Going for "future doctor" makes perfect sense to me. It's as good as killing the doctor himself (which would have promoted Varsoon to doctor anyway). What am I missing?

[Almost50]

I am not yet fully awake, but I jailed shannon!!!! I figured if it was her she would be blocked and no NK will occur, and if it's not her then she would be the lynch unless it's proven she's not guilty. Now we know it's none of the VTs for sure. It's either me or implosion. Lynch me then him when I flip. Town win locked.

[Almost50]

if kraska is trusting A50, I should be clear according to A50's claim so by extension I should be town in her eyes.

No if i trust a50 and shannon is cleared then ure the only possible scum obviously because the day u got jailed was the only day there was no NK

Why have you not selfvoted?

A50 jailed me two days in a row.

Dunn on N1, kraska on N2, Airick on N3, Zach on N4, Zach on N5, kraska on N6, shannon on N7

[Almost50]

Well meh. So then a50 can have stopped the vig kill and also killed dunn in theory.

Ugh.

That's true, except we already had a flipped Mafia JK, so I could not be Mafia AND a JK, thus I could not have stopped the Vig shot if I'm Mafia!!

[Almost50]

@Shannon:

The N1 action on Varsoon most likely came from beeboy.

@Everyone:

With Transcend ending up dead it's unlikely we have a Ninja, bc why would a Ninja take out the motion detector?
However, it also points to the scum likely being one of the VT claims, bc both PRs already had a legit reason to have motion detected from them.

On the other hand, I have jailed all 3 of them and a NK still occured. If we assume a strongman then shannon should be clear (by virtue of Transcend result on her) and it's between Zach and kraska.

If there's no strongman involved then it's between me and implosion. Either way shannon is NOT the right lynch.

[Almost50]

Is there a rule that prevents 2 mafia JKs from existing?

I wouldn't call it a "rule" per se, but it's something that's never been used before at the very least.

[Almost50]

Wait! If there IS a strongman, how come we had 2 deaths only on N3??

Let me go check:

N1: Dunn was jailed, so Lapsa was the Mafia kill.
N2: Dunn didn't shoot (confirmation?) and Titus was the Mafia kill.
N3: Dunn shot Wake, Mafia shot podoboq
N4: Dunn shot beeboy. Did Mafia also shoot beeboy?
N5: Mafia shot Dunn, but Dunn shot nobody?
N6, N7: Dunn is no more, so Varsoon & Transcend are Mafia kills.

The thing is did Mafia & Dunn target the same person TWICE? (I'm assuming Dunn didn't shoot on N3, else it would be THRICE!).

We first need to decide on whether there IS a strongman here or not. We need to narrow it down to 2 lynch candidates bc that's all we have left: 2 lynches. Unless it's a scum duo and we ARE in LyLo already.

Well, my train of thought stops here. I'll wait for someone else to pick up from me.

[Almost50]

OK.

VOTE: kraska

And if the game doesn't end we follow shannon's plan, I guess. *Crossing Fingers*

[Almost50]

Wait! WHAT THE FREAK? If I jail implosion he canNOT protect you.

[Almost50]

I already said what I thought at the start of the day, and I should have insisted on going that route. Lynching me would have confirmed my role and alignment and maybe then you would have been left with only one conclusion and that it's implosion.

Now don't ask me to speculate about how it goes. I'm not on top of how strongman works and you guys seem to imply that they can kill if jailed. I always thought they would only manage to kill if their target was jailed (since that would be bypassing "protection" which is the definition of a strongman), but I didn't know they could kill when they are jailed (bc then that would be overcoming a roleblock!)

I'm not even sure I'm making much sense here, but suffice it to say implosion is the one I never jailed (and it has always been for a good reason: IF he was the doctor, then I would be blocking his protection, so I figured 2 protections are better than one).

Anyway, if I jail implosion tonight and there are no kills then it's him, but that's ONLY according to how I understand strongman to work. If I'm wrong and strongman can bypass a roleblock (being jailed themselves) then it's a shot in the dark, but then shannon is likely to be town still bc of the MD result on her when there actually was a kill on that night.

[Almost50]

So A50, what was your actual fucking role? Did scum have a JK /RB, or two JKs?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I jailed implosion as we had agreed. He was the only one left for me to jail.

I'll be frank: If YOU were the 1-shot strongman then you've done a hell of a job. This would explain why the first night I jailed you there was no kill, but then how did you guess I was going to jail you the next night too?

If it's implosion, he certainly wasn't a 1-shot or he was really really really lucky picking his targets.

I know it's not me, but I can understand how the town player of you two can get confused, and I won't blame them if they do end up voting me along with scum.

I certainly won't be voting either of you before I've re--read the whole thread once more and figured out "who said what why". From a recent skim through I noted Dunn would have voted you over implosion, but Transcend, Boem & kraska would have gone for implosion. Wake would have voted me though, and podoboq may have been on me or implosion but probably not you.

Anyway, because there's definitely something I'm missing here I think I need more time to try and figure it out, and if not then it'd be like a penalty kick. Scum now feel the goal is too wide for them to defend, while I see it as small as a needle hole!

[Almost50]

My answer is "I don't know", but here's an excerpt from the wiki (page: Normal Game) under "Roles" and it says "Modifiers which are explicitly Normal for any alignment include: Ascetic, Backup (with or without primary role present), Bulletproof, .. etc .. etc..

What did catch my attention is the "with or without primary role present". It might be weird, but it's possible to to have had a doctor + back up nurse without the presence of a nurse, so when the doctor goes then the backup nurse would become a nurse (i.e. backup doctor) without the presence of a doctor.

However, it is still weird, and what's weirder is the vibes I'm getting from your posts today. You are not exactly you tbh. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I it feels like you feel victorious already. I'm still undecided and I would like for implosion to come share his views at this point. If he IS a doctor, and IS town, then you -sir- have played an awesome game thus far, but you need to convince him to vote me or me to vote him still, which won't be easy. I'd hate to come this far and then vote for the wrong person.

[Almost50]

I'll probably have more time for this tomorrow as well.

[Almost50]

You say it's me. I say it's implosion, and he says it's you. The problem is I don't have the balls to cast a vote just in case I was missing something. This was another reason way I wanted to be lynched first yesterday. I simply hate to be in LyLo's and IF I was wrong about implosion and he flipped town (which means you're the scum) you probably would have still let me live to do exactly the same thing you're doing now.

Suffice it to say I don't trust either of you right now, and I can't find anything that convinces me otherwise.

Tell me something, Zack: How come you've always defended me all game long and never doubted me until today? Also, why would I clear you and keep you alive, and then come today to declare I also jailed implosion last night? If I'm scum (thus by default I'm NOT a JK to begin with), why clear you and off someone else like Varsoon? In my mind, the right play would've been to kill YOU and let Varsoon live (or -generally speaking- kill the clears and leave the unconfirmed to end game).

Finally, why am I (and implosion) are still both alive? More to it: why would either of us kill Transcend? We both are claimed PRs and -thus- motion detected on either of us is no big deal. Now who is the only one -still alive- who would benefit from a motion detection death? Also, why would I kill Dunn who was obviously going to target a VT next? Did I need more time to get more clears before I get to LyLo??

Let's go back to Dunn's 306 and my 325. Assuming you're town, Dunn had not voted a single scum player up to that point (even the two he only FoS'd but didn't vote flipped town). You yourself said something about it being a bad read list and you were right, but -in retrospect- you may have known already who scum were and you didn't like being the only one at the very bottom. I mean, your own phrasing was "That mid to lower half of it sucks", hinting you approved of most of the "top half" at the time (please correct me if I'm reading it the wrong way).

I've also had a look at your votes and you voted Varsoon, Wake, shannon, Dunn & Wake (again) before you started attacking Titus. Then you went back to shannon, then implosion, then implosion again after having unvoted, then you voted Nos, then back to Dunn.

Still on D1 you voted Vedith, back to implosion, back to Vedith (that slot had been obviously a burden on the scum team with 2 players in a row failing to town it up), then Dunn, implosion, Vedith, implosion, Vedith, Performer, Vedith, performer, Vedith (and went to bed to come back and find 6 more votes have been added that lead to his lynch.)

From this I could probably deduce you were struggling to decide between (a) bussing your inactive partner and (b) hoping that they somehow can redeem themselves and redirect the wagon elsewhere. Otherwise you were voting mostly town (with the exception of a one-time vote on Titus).

On the other hand, I refuse to see your play all through the game (in general) as scum-driven. It really makes no sense to me. From doubting the Titus mason claim on D1.. why would scum!Zack expose his scum partner like that? Why so early too?

The thing is Titus herself doesn't like bussing and she did vote you twice early on D1, so you probably aren't her partner.

In short, VC analysis of D1 suggests you're scum, but your interactions with Titus suggest otherwise.

Implosion -on the other hand- voted sickofit, Zach, boem, Titus, Mirhawk, PV, Vedith & AGar, so 3 of the scum team on D1 (not counting you), or 4 town, 3 scum and 1 unknown vs your 5 town, 2 scum and 1 unknown, although he wasn't on the Vedith wagon that lead to the lynch (and neither was I).

Here is the final wagon on Vedith:

Vedith (10): AGar, Performer, PeregrineV, Zachstralkita, beeboy, Titus, Transcend, Boem_u_dusi, shannon, Dunnstral

Everybody except Titus is flipped town, and you are the only one still alive. Does it look more likely to you that only one scum bussed there??

In light of this I'm reconsidering my stance on you, tbh. Your most recent "I don't need to prove a thing" is also bugging me. We're in LyLo, and you do need to convince me you're town if we're going to win this, but I fear if things stay the way they are I might be persuaded to vote you over implosion and hope that it's the right decision.

[Almost50]

If you looked at me and Titus interactions when we were voting each other and you DON'T see TvT, then I can't help you.

Oh, shut! Titus did flip TOWN!

Sorry for the mix up. Can't even say explicitly why I thought she flipped scum, but I know you're bright enough to take a wild guess!!

OK, nut that makes your voting record on D1 even worse. I do agree though that overall yours looked like town play, but so did implosion's to a great extent.

We probably should wait for him to show up and give his own speech, so maybe he can shed some light on this situation.

[Almost50]

OK, you both are bringing good points to the table, although I still feel implosion's arguments are more solid to be extremely blunt.

OK, Zack: how do you explain the Varsoon role in light of Scum!implosion? Because that point in his argument is solid as a rock.

[Almost50]

This game is killing me. I hate to lose, but I'd hate it even more if I was the reason we lost. For what it's worth, implo still looks more convincing to me. I took Zach for granted way too long, but -gun to my head and forced to cast a vote right now- I think I'll vote him.

Is there anything more either of you would like to add, ask, or advise me to do? (Other than the "vote him bc I'm town" cliché).

[Almost50]

I would appreciate if you voted yourself and lost

Now you're being overly silly! I can't do that as either alignment, but I view this as a tactic to avoid responding to the points thrown your way by both implosion and myself.

Let me get this straight: You are town, and you believe implosion is town, and think that I'm scum. Is this your final stance?

[Almost50]

LOL.. a scum claim?? The reason I asked if that was your final stance is to help me ease my mind voting you. Even if you're town; voting me loses the game. So -from my own PoV- I can only vote you and hope implo will join me AND that he is actually town.

[Almost50]

@Zach:

Of course I treat myself as "conf", and if you were town you should too. I mean, the MOD must've told you your alignment, so you KNOW whether you are town or not. I may not be confirmed to wither of you, but TO ME I am! Duh!

And, I'm not twisting anything. I do consider the possibility of you being town still, but IF YOU ARE you're still going to lose us the game.

OK, let me try to simplify things for you:

First let's say implosion is currently evenly and equally undecided (50% chance voting me & 50% chance voting you). OK?

From where I stand right now it's about 75% you're scum and 25% you're town, so voting you (and being right about it) makes the town winning chance = 75 * 50/100 = 37.5%

Voting you (and being right about it) also has another 37.5% chance of still losing, but only due to implosion making the wrong decision (i.e. we still lsoe, but I'm not to blame).

Now there's the remaining 25% of me being wrong about you, but you already made your FINAL decision and it's the wrong one, so we lose either way. Capisce?

That's why I asked if that was you FINAL stance. You said it was, so there's no chance we're winning this if I vote implosion anyway, and I would rather bank on our 37.5% chance of winning by voting you than on a 0% chance by voting him.

I hope you do get it now. "Even if you're town WE STILL LOSE".

[Almost50]

You're asserting that you're the deciding vote and the one who determines the outcome of this.

Actually, implosion is the deciding vote right now. You and I are cross voting and he will get too choose between us.

Vote me.

Is this a trick of some kind?? Because if it is; you've got me! OK..

VOTE: Zach

You yourself say implo is confirmed, so it's either you, you or you!!

[Almost50]

OK, please hold on and let me address the last Zach post point by point (those points that I think do matter)

[Almost50]

He couldn't have done the numbers in his head, and went to 4, and said, " Oh, shit. I guess scum shot Lapsa too."

OK. What "other" meaning does my quoted post have, if not "scum must've targeted Lapsa"? The reason I did eventually claim is people were wondering who the mafia shot, and YOU -good sir- were suggesting they might've targeted you (which -by implication- was a blatant attempt by you to clear yourself by portraying as a "mafia target").

[Almost50]

Mate, your paranoia calling every post I make scum is really getting to me. Actually, what you're doing IS the scummy behaviour at it's prime, and leaves no further doubts on my mind.

Also, implosion is here and he has us both voting eachother, so he is 100% town now, bc why would he not just hammer either of us and claim the win if he was scum??

Also, also, that is an emus, not an ostrich. Now let me finish my talk!

[Almost50]

1- No need to quote this, but I never claimed I was a beginner.

2-

Why does A50 jailkeep a townread of his?

Same reason why I jailed YOU. I do jail my town reads for protection.

3-

Anyway, Airick might be scum yes, but he's not the one who shot "whoever the Mafia shot of the two" last night. But if there's another anti-town killing role then he's right back in it (the kills of last night) too. If it was Dunn who shot Wake/podoq then Airick steps back a little in favour of finding the actual killer.

But hang on, this doesn't make sense at all.

No matter what the fuck Airick was to anyone at that point in time, he couldn't have made ANY kill if he was actually jailkept. If another member of the mafia committed the kill, Airick is STILL cleared of that kill on the basis of being JK'd.

But what's this? Later... we have...

I honestly don't recall what I was thinking there, so I'll just admit this looks pretty much f'd up. What I did mean was Airick was more likely a 3P killer not Mafia, but I acknowledge that's not what I've typed at all!!

4-

If you read what I wrote just above and then come back to this.. does it make sense?

It sure doesn't match what I've typed, but it did go with what I did have in mind (although that was not apparent through what I did type).

5-

Dunnstral also did the same thing, this was before he claimed vig and the kill on Lapsa, thus by extension being before you claimed.

Both of you were trying to force the idea that you were town and got targeted by Mafia, using Dunn's claim to have vigged Lapsa as an excuse, so I felt the need to defuse your narcissism (both of you) by declaring the Mafia DID kill Lapsa (and thus did not target either of you).

P-edit:



Yes, I do realize you already acknowledged that .. IN THE SAME POST YOU QUOTE ME SAYING IT!!

Are you getting desperate, Zach?? Is your logic starting to fail you? Are you now reverting to psychology and mind games in hopes you can trick implosion's mind into ignoring what his eyes are reading??

Also, why did you feel the need to interrupt my posts in response to your quote wall? Are you too afraid if I put it all in sequence that your cover would be blown away?? Relax, mate. I'm not THAT convincing, and never have been. In fact, anybody who cares to read my previous games would realize 2 traits I cannot get rid of still:

1- I cannot make proper cases. Not even when I "know" something (i.e. if I'm an investigative I could not convince people to vote my guilty w/o claiming first).

2- I hard bus my scum partners, bc I cannot defend against NOT voting them if I was called on it.

Feel free to stop by my wiki page and check it out yourself (not necessarily now.. just anytime you might want to).

[Almost50]

Mate, your paranoia calling every post I make scum is really getting to me. Actually, what you're doing IS the scummy behaviour at it's prime, and leaves no further doubts on my mind.!

One this is irrelevant because implosion is ten thousand percent town -- he would have voted and won by now. OF COURSE you're scum.

Also, implosion is here and he has us both voting eachother, so he is 100% town now, bc why would he not just hammer either of us and claim the win if he was scum??

Did they promote you to Chief Inspector at Scotland Yard yet? You realized I already acknowledged that, and that's why I'm voting YOU, right? Yep, you did.

Man, this is funny! I can't stop laughing!! You say something and then quote an earlier post that states the same thing, but think bc your text is placed above the quote that you actually said it before me???

[Almost50]

Same reason why I jailed YOU. I do jail my town reads for protection.

So uh, you're contradicting yourself here if I'm reading things correctly...

How so? If I have a strong town read and no strong scum read I DO jail my town read for protection. It's a fact. Only when I start developing strong scum reads and/or if my jail could be used to prove someone innocent/guilty do I start jailing such targets.

[Almost50]

"I started getting ideas". The "act" was scummy, alright, but my "idea" was that he was intentionally trying to draw a NK. I didn't want to lose him on N1 bc he is a very GOOD asset to town.

[Almost50]

I mean, how ell do you know Dunn and his play?

[Almost50]

Have you played significantly with Dunn?

OK, I'm afraid the answer must include 2 "hints" that I'm not at liberty to elaborate on:

I have one "finished" game with him as "Dunnstral".

[Almost50]

This game has gone from hyper-active at the start to dead silent now. Is there anything either of you would like to ask or discuss with me? I obviously have nothing to add myself at this time.

[Almost50]

scumline ^

May I sneeze? Can I cough? Am I allowed to BLINK?? Are you going to just sit there waiting for me to say just about anything to call it a scum line, scum post or scum claim?? Man I do feel for you. I truly do. Having come so close with what seemed like a perfect plan.. and if it's any consolation I for one would consider you a winner regardless.

Btw, I now know the answer to my earlier question. Going through my older notes of the game I found a remark that states "Zach, Transcend & implosion move their votes together". I believe that was in the first half of D1. That explains why Transcend, implosion and myself made it to the last 5, and why I am left alive. It's bc I was sheeping you (and you were buddying me hard) all the game, so you thought I would make a perfect ally against implosion in this situation. This also explains why Transcend was eventually killed, because he was adamant shannon was town, and was pushing against me which would have sabotaged your plan.

Tell me I'm wrong and I'll just shut up!

[Almost50]

I'm lock scum to you. You do not say this as town. Game.

Say what? I already have my vote on you. I'm asking if there's still something to say/do, and implosion responded.

You know what?/ Just call it a prodge.

[Almost50]

FWIW I didn't think I'd make it all the way, but I kept trying to survive for just one more day. The choice of NKs was a pain too, and at one point I didn't know whether I should shoot someone or play a no-kill gambit.

Also, faking results was kind of tricky. I knew I was getting myself cornered, and I did have to shoot shannon bc if it was her and Zach/implosion in LyLo I'm dead certain they would've ended up lynching me.

GG, and apologies to those I tricked to get it my way.

[Almost50]

Now the reason for my claim:

I may not have been under direct threat, but suspicion was mounting up, and I knew Dunn was blocked actually and that we did shoot Lapsa, so I went ahead and claimed JK, knowing if Airick ever got lynched it would work to my benefit!

I also shot Dunn NOT bc I was afraid he'd shoot me (that would've been fair), but bc I was afraid he'd shoot the wrong person and mess with my plans. He was the unpredictable element of it all, so I had to take him out before I got completely cornered with no way to go. That and I know he would've found me out eventually.

All in all, I was extremely lucky. beeboy suspected me but didn't investigate me. My fake claim served me well with the Motion Detector (imagine if I claimed a VT), Dunn trusted me, and Zach saw the light a little too late.