New York 196: My Game, My Flavor Mafia (Mafia Win)

[shannon]

Hi!

I only recognise one name here, so VOTE: Almost 50

I like the dog <3

[shannon]

How am I going to remember all these names?

This is my first game where I don't know what the roles are, it's a bit unsettling.

VOTE: Zach... for not showing up yet

[shannon]

Hi!

I only recognise one name here, so VOTE: Almost 50

I like the dog <3

Hi, shannon. I seem to remember the name but not recall what game we played together before. Care to refresh my rusty memory?

You subbed in to Newbie 1691, when I was already dead - I was watching closely, hoping for a town win that never happened!

snippy snip

shannon

———✶

Closed Setups are pretty fun! If you would, how much game experience do you have?

Very little, comparatively. Three newbie games (one I subbed in so late it barely counts), one ongoing normal game. Record for completed games is two losses as town and a win as scum.

[shannon]

Ok Sickofit1138 and Zachstralkita both mafia

HEARD HE BE SNITCHING, WELL LET ME FIND OUT HE POINTING FINGERS I BRING HIS HAND BACK PROMO VAN BLAM THAT WHOLE FUCKING FAM WHACKED, WIFEY DUCT TAPED SARAN WRAPPED AND AMTRAK'D

This is going to get really annoying if we have to deal with it all game. I don't know how many townies there are here, but can we afford to lose one if it helps the sanity of the rest of us?

[shannon]

Zachstral shannon maf team

If I was a mafia team with him I'd have replaced out by now, I can only imagine how annoying mafia chat must be

[shannon]

[shannon]

Ok Sickofit1138 and Zachstralkita both mafia

HEARD HE BE SNITCHING, WELL LET ME FIND OUT HE POINTING FINGERS I BRING HIS HAND BACK PROMO VAN BLAM THAT WHOLE FUCKING FAM WHACKED, WIFEY DUCT TAPED SARAN WRAPPED AND AMTRAK'D

This is going to get really annoying if we have to deal with it all game. I don't know how many townies there are here, but can we afford to lose one if it helps the sanity of the rest of us?

You don't know my role though. And you just assumed it.......................... but at the same time you say I'm scum.


VOTE: shannon

If I could double vote you for that comment I would.

Read between the lines: You're not such a loss, even if you're town (assuming you and I are not the only two, that would be really unbalanced) because your posts are so full of noisy blah-blah that they make it hard to think clearly. Deliberately annoying should not be a play style.

[shannon]

ok Zach mafia with either Shannon or Transcend

OK, who is NOT mafia in this game? Cuz you've voted or pointed the FoS on almost everything that moves thus far.

Alright let me break this one down for you

[Titus, Lapsa]
[Boem_u_dusi, implosion, Wake88]
[Nosferatu, Performer, Varsoon, Mirhawk]
[Airick10, Agar, podoboq, PeregrineV, shannon]
[Transcend, Almost50]
[Zachstralkita, Sickofit1138]

A meta question, how the hell do you remember everyone, much less organise them in to a list like that? I am still experiencing overwhelm with the sheer volume of posts and unfamiliar names.

[shannon]

Except I do, shannon pretty much slipped and kase klosed.

Spoiler: the thing zach is calling a scumslip

Ok Sickofit1138 and Zachstralkita both mafia

HEARD HE BE SNITCHING, WELL LET ME FIND OUT HE POINTING FINGERS I BRING HIS HAND BACK PROMO VAN BLAM THAT WHOLE FUCKING FAM WHACKED, WIFEY DUCT TAPED SARAN WRAPPED AND AMTRAK'D

This is going to get really annoying if we have to deal with it all game. I don't know how many townies there are here, but can we afford to lose one if it helps the sanity of the rest of us?

Zachstral shannon maf team

If I was a mafia team with him I'd have replaced out by now, I can only imagine how annoying mafia chat must be

scumslip

I read shannon's post as "I want to policy lynch Zach." I don't agree with doing that, but I don't think it's a scumslip. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that you're hearing "Zach's town, but can we kill him anyway," and I think it's, "I don't care if he's scum or town."


In my experience, scumslips are more overt than this.

That's not a scum slip any way you slice it

That's not a scum slip any way you slice it

I'm not scum any way you slice it.

Except I do, shannon pretty much slipped and kase klosed.

Spoiler: the thing zach is calling a scumslip

Ok Sickofit1138 and Zachstralkita both mafia

HEARD HE BE SNITCHING, WELL LET ME FIND OUT HE POINTING FINGERS I BRING HIS HAND BACK PROMO VAN BLAM THAT WHOLE FUCKING FAM WHACKED, WIFEY DUCT TAPED SARAN WRAPPED AND AMTRAK'D

This is going to get really annoying if we have to deal with it all game. I don't know how many townies there are here, but can we afford to lose one if it helps the sanity of the rest of us?

Zachstral shannon maf team

If I was a mafia team with him I'd have replaced out by now, I can only imagine how annoying mafia chat must be

scumslip

I read shannon's post as "I want to policy lynch Zach." I don't agree with doing that, but I don't think it's a scumslip. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that you're hearing "Zach's town, but can we kill him anyway," and I think it's, "I don't care if he's scum or town."


In my experience, scumslips are more overt than this.

She says "I can only imagine how annoying mafia chat must be", which reinforces the belief that I am scum. It is not " I don't care if he's scum or town ". It would be without that sentence.

The reason I mentioned mafia chat is because someone accused us of being scum together. I was reinforcing my dislike for your playstyle by saying that if we were, I would be out by now, because I can't imagine having to read a whole chat full of it.

BARS

YOU WELCOME IN ST.LOUIS, BUT YOU GOTTA FOLLOW OUR LAWS THOUGH

FIRST IS YOU DON'T KNOW NOBODY KEEP A SMALL CONVO AND LOSE SOME OF THIS GOD DAMN SWAG THAT'LL GET YO JAW BROKE

DON'T DRIVE NO WHIP THAT FLASH, YOU GET YOUR CAR YOKED

...

Y'ALL BE ON THAT RAZOR BUCK FIFTY LEAVING A SCARRED THROAT? WE BARBECUE WEENIE Y'ALL PARTNAS, GET YA DOGS SMOKED

^^ This is the kind of annoying non-content I am talking about. How does this help town in any plausible way? How is it anything more than noise that is designed to annoy, confuse, take up space, or break up the flow of conversation?

If you are town and you think this is helping, you are the weirdest townie I've ever met and I don't think your loss would be devastating. If you're scum, even better, we can lynch with impunity. I didn't really consider 'lynch the annoying person' as a policy lynch, but I guess it is and I'm happy if that becomes our policy at this point.

[shannon]

A50 is looking really townie on p 14.

Zach, the thing is that there's no reason for you to post all the extra stuff. It's not 'flavour' or being friendly and building rapport with others, it's distracting and totally unhelpful. The thread is already busy enough with everyone posting legit stuff, we don't need all caps song lyrics as well. Are you using them to communicate some secret message to a team member or something?

[shannon]

PEdit: What's with the swears Transcend? That was a bit rude, it's only a game.


Read List; there's no hierarchy within each category, I just wrote in whatever order. (i.e. top of town list is not necessarily the most towny, I don't have enough of a view yet to give that kind of detail). If I missed someone please let me know. Spoilered because it's a massive wall.

Spoiler:

TOWNIER

Titus - 93, 112, stuff with Wake

Wake - big read list, stuff with Titus (looks town-town to me at this point)

Mirhawk - only content is against Performer, like that he's sticking with a wagon in the face of others objections, independent thinking looks town to me

Transcend - comments on Performer's vote for no-lynch, then gets on Boem and sticks with it.

Implosion - his points to Boem about the 'warning', in particular, seem towny to me

Performer - I didn't like the 'no vote' vote but he looks towny in general. Realised in ISOing him that he asked me for a link to my games and I didn't get to post it, whoops!

NULL

For not enough info to make a judgment - Nosferatu Varsoon AGar Sick Airick Peregrine

For mixed reads -

Lapsa - not much to go on, I think the accusation that Wake's post is 'flirting with him' is a bit off base

Boem - seems to be both engaged and relatively thorough, but the fact that Implosion had to tell him off about the 'warning' thing made me think twice

Dunnstral - changes votes a lot with little explanation, I would like more explanation. I like 266 and on against Zach but it could be conf bias on my part

SCUMMIER

Almost50 - 113 is an over explanation of strategy and reasons for not using it this game, which could be prepping for a move later on.

Podoboq - 103 ' my reads kind of suck' sounds like scum laying the groundwork for not scumreading their buddies if caught. In 249 it seems like he's had 2 really good games and one bad one, so I think he's cleverer than he's trying to let on

Zach - I've already hashed this out elsewhere

[shannon]

Checked out rest of shann's ISO, placing her into null now. I see why she voted Zach though, as I went through a game with Firebringer that had noisemakers who caused a ton of chaos. Town ended up losing that game, and it was a shameful one.
At the same time, I think a wagon earlier than later, is more productive than sitting around doing guessing games. Taking a page from Thor's book.

Based on podo's ISO alone, I'm putting that slot into my scumreads at the moment.

I freely admit I'm having trouble keeping up with all the players here, there's bound to be a few wrong! Which ones do you think are 'wrongest'?

[shannon]

Wow, that was all quite .... wow. Looks quite TvT to me but I'm going to wait until people who know these players jump in before I vote - also, for a vote count.

UNVOTE: Zach

[shannon]

VOTE: titus

[shannon]

I changed my mind after seeing her vote Titus

I didn't want to tunnel Zach and Titus seemed like a good wagon to get reactions. And reactions have certainly been got!

[shannon]

Anyway, I'm surprised you think I'm less lynchable than others.
Have they messed up that bad?

Don't put........ too much faith in the pie chart numbers

But in a general sense I think there are a lot of scummy people in this game

I'm just shamelessly sheeping Dunnstral for now.

No shame brother

There can't be *that* many scum in the game or it would be totally unbalanced. Why make a chart and not take the time to make it accurate? Are you hoping that we'll just take your word for it? Is lynchability different from scumminess?

Boem is town

What specifically makes him look towny to you? I get bad vibes from him, like he is trying really hard to be town, in a way that town never actually needs to. I don't like that you unquestioningly accept him sheeping your opinions. If

I

started doing that, what would you think of it?

could someone sober explain me this handwritten notes/graph nonsense please?

seems like that crap transcends this particular game and has some kind of external reference

either way - feels like i'm gonna be accused for feigning ignorance

Stuffed if I know, but glad I'm not the only one missing out.

[shannon]

What's the wagon at now?

[shannon]

OK, top 3 reasons to vote Boem then

[shannon]

OK, finally sort of caught up.

I've never played a mason game before. At face value it seems ridiculous to fake claim this role, so I've got to move off the Titus wagon now.

Someone was calling for an investigative role on me, and someone else voted and then moved (maybe this was Titus and Zach). I get that I'm not a great contributor this game, I think it's a combo of being sick, RL busy, other game busy, and unused to playing with so many people. I would encourage an investigator not to waste their action, and I'll try to do better to keep track of what's going on in the game and to contribute.

VOTE: Wake for pushing Titus after the role claim.

Titus you're both experienced and have claimed a PR, from here whenever you vote I'm hitching myself to your wagon, unless I get better info myself.

[shannon]

VOTE: Wake for pushing Titus after the role claim.

Titus you're both experienced and have claimed a PR, from here whenever you vote I'm hitching myself to your wagon, unless I get better info myself.

VOTE: wake

UNVOTE: Titus

Finally, something interesting.

This shannon player is voting me because I'm pushing you Titus... because that's it. Now she says she's going to hitch herself to your wagon whenever you vote because you're a claimed PR. And Transcend just goes with it, no reason need apply.

Varsoon

,

Mirhawk

,

Zach

,

Lapsa

,

Implosion

,

Dunnstral

,

Titus

: This is a serious move. One that needs to be explained. Please, if you would, share your thoughts on this.

My reasoning is this: I'm a newbie in a game of experienced people. I don't seem to be in the same time zone as many (any?) of you, which causes me to miss a whole lot of the conversation. I last posted after 7PM last night, and now it's just after 9AM in the morning and there have been three hundred posts. I think it's not possible for me to be to keep up with this game in the same way a lot of you are, who are participating in back-and-forth. At this point Titus is unlynchable, and she's experienced, so I'm going with her reads unless I get something better on my own.

Someone was calling for an investigative role on me

, and someone else voted and then moved (maybe this was Titus and Zach). I get that I'm not a great contributor this game, I think it's a combo of being sick, RL busy, other game busy, and unused to playing with so many people.

I would encourage an investigator not to waste their action

, and I'll try to do better to keep track of what's going on in the game and to contribute.

I'd be stoked to get cleared by an investigative PR.

This reads to me like you want the theoretical PR to not look in your direction.

Let me try to be more forceful. I'm aware that my role, and me as a player, are not of great value to this game. I'm not going to be the one who makes or breaks it, and if a PR can investigate someone else and find scum or a PR, they should do that instead. I wouldn't expect a PR to out themselves in order to vouch for my innocence if I were being wagoned, since I'm a small fish and I'm being outplayed big time. I don't expect anyone to take my word for it, but I'm trying to think of the bigger town picture here.

Shannon, why follow me so close?

(snippy snip)

Titus, because you're the closest thing we have to confirmed town, and you're experienced and have a better grip on the game than I do. If you're scum, my one vote isn't going to make a huge difference to you being able to push a wagon on someone - I'm not going to hammer anyone.

"I feel like he's coasting by posting infrequently" there's like 8 other people you can slap that on to

This is a really hard game to get in to if you're not online when the main players are. In previous games this has happened and I've ended up posting at odd times and basically to myself, and people have complained that I'm then making walls. So either I post a lot in quick succession and bore/frustrate people, or I post occasionally and miss some stuff.

[shannon]

I am actually starting to town read Zach a bit. Town on both the mason claims obv.

Scummish on Boem, the overall vibe of his posts just feels off to me but I don't know him so it might be normal for him. I don't think i'ts correct that replacements are more likely to be scum and I don't accept that as a reason for voting.

I don't like Performer's 'no lynch' vote.


VOTE: Sick of it

[shannon]

I think I won't be playing closed setups until I get more experience, this is ridiculous

Is this craziness typical of this sort of game?

So, two groups of claimed masons. If both groups are town and picking partners at random, that's really shitty town play. If they hold other PRs and communicate with each other there's no reason to gambit as masons, there hasn't been a serious wagon on anyone yet. We need to lynch within this group and sort the town from the scum. Now that there's a CC I'm no longer following Titus.

VOTE: Dunnstral

[shannon]

Like, Dunnstral and Titus claim Masons when I am a Mason
I tried to expose Dunnstral as scum.
Dunnstral plays the most obv-scum game in response.
No one votes Dunnstral.
Yeah I'm gonna claim and let town see where I'm coming from.
Going back on that as a reaction test just weakens that push to lynch Dunnscum, which is practically confirmed from my PoV

Oh did I not say it?

Day talk

So you do have Daytalk.

If they had daytalk.. .Why did Dunnstral get annoyed when Titus " claimed "? They should have been able to plan that out and go over what they would and wouldn't do..

LMFAOOO CONFSCUM

Oh did I not say it?

Day talk

We aren't masons. I fake claimed to save Dunn because he is frankly obvtown but crappy and needs to learn to play with others.

I don't regret it.

Now if there wasn't a double fucking standard regarding claims, I would be dead N1, scum would be lynched and ALL would be sorted.

Yet this group cannot do shit.

OOOOOH WHAM
BAM
THANK YOU MA'AAAAAM

Dunn/Zach you have between 650 to 800 posts between you, can you both cool it?

+this
I think you two are town but you seriously don't realize how much you are hurting the town with so many posts.

Titus/dunn/zach are all town. Varsoon probably is too. But seriously. This whole mason shit has made this game unplayable. I'm experienced enough to follow it. But you see how like, a

lot

of people are unable to contribute meaningfully?

You two really need to post a lot less so that we can y'know get content from other people.

Wow, OK, everyone's a faker. Why the hell we all had to go through that I've got no idea.

VOTE: sick of it

[shannon]

My vote on Wake is serious based on group dynamic.

Dunn is town based on ihhcihihciydkhckhdohhc rules.

AKA bullshit?

Well you took out half of it.

I have zero faith in town. You have to force the rest of town to think with brains instead of feels.

@Zach, Oh now your posts are jokes...hnph. Yeah we'll go with the joke defense. That has about a 75% likelihood of being scum (but it failed when a noob used it sooo).

You want to do something productive, stop whining about my scumread, doubtcadting town and do it.

Good way of prepping us for your gambit - you relied on us all thinking that logically, no one would fake mason because it's too unlikely/too easy to be caught etc.


I'm sure there's more but your ISO is so extensive I can't even. Suffice to say, you have been trying to control the game from the start, you started an unnecessary mason gambit that destroyed the whole day, and I can't see any pro-town reason for doing it. Your excuse has been that you were trying to prevent a wagon on Dunn, but how was that even sensible - the first wagon of the day almost never sticks, and unless you really are both PRs with communication, you have no way of even coming close to proving your towniness to us. And lets say you do convince us, that just makes you targets for scum. All in all, very anti-town play. (And for what, maybe saving a VT, or outing yourselves both as PRs?)

I also dislike how you use your supposed authority vote as a threat to silence people. If I agree with you I'm on the town list, if I express any dissent I'm automatically scum. Not cool.

VOTE: Titus

Pedit: Podoboq is my top town read at the moment

[shannon]

Didn't read most of the 10 pages that appeared overnight, it's all blah blah blah.

Totally staying on titus, not letting him get away with this crap.

[shannon]

Alrighty then. Most of what I want to say has already been said by Podoboq. The whole mason bit stinks.

Titus now claims some mysterious, unexplainable town read on Dunn, that she couldn't otherwise elaborate on. And so - without knowing Dunn's actual role here - she claims masons. (If she does know Dunn's actual role here, she's scum). This whole fiasco was to save someone who could have been a vanilla townie, who scum will most likely NK now anyway because of all the attention that's been drawn. This is crap town play and I'm staying on Titus unless Dunn is an option.

I am just ISOing Dunn and he has mentioned something that's happening in an ongoing game: see the top of 90 where he's asked to link to what he said and responds and "I can't yet". So

mod

can we please get this guy removed for a rule violation?

Since we can't manage to bloody well vote him for a scummy play, I figure this might be a way to get rid of him

.

Continue to VOTE: Titus

More vote counts would totally be helpful, with the sheer volume of posts happening in this game.

[shannon]

Holy shit I managed to post without getting a warning that 10 other posts had been made in the time since I started typing!

[shannon]

A50's assessment of me is fair. I have been of very little use this game, simply because I don't know how to engage with it. Not only the mason claims, but the sheer volume of posts (most of which seem to amount to 'I know you are but what am I?'), the hostility and complete lack of cooperation. It's not what I thought mafia was meant to be like. Again, podoboq hit the nail on the head with his commentary in Titus and why titus has been the most destructive for town.

if it gets toward EOD and there is no dominant wagon, I'd accept being voted off the island. It's not fair to make a replacement read all these pages, and I'm VT so while it's not the best option for town, ar least you won't accidentally hit a PR. If there's not a scum candidate we can all agree on, I volunteer as tribute.

[shannon]

Anyway it is like 1am so I am going to read the most recent 10 pages and first 10 pages and just wing it.

All you miss in the middle is a bunch of mason claims, counter claims, and then abandonment of claims, plus people telling each other that town are idiots this game. All in all, you don't miss much.

wake's obv town

performer's relatively obv town.

sick was probably more "i don't want to read 100 pages of this shit" than "i'm scum and i don't know how to respond to this pressure".

I agree with the first two. If sick replaced out becuase he didn't want to catch up it not alignment indicative though.

Also, what makes Shannon obvtown? She advocated a modkill which she wouldn't have even done if she had actually read the thread, then when called on it she immediately claimed and made an appeal to emotion.

I have read the thread (ugh) and I wanted that modkill 1) because I'm a stickler for rules, even when they hurt me, and 2) I want that guy gone for the fake mason crap. I have accidentally mentioned a current game before, and if I had been modkiled for it I would have accepted it. (IRL I am the kind of person who thanks the officer for a speeding ticket because it reminds me that I need to pay more attention when I'm driving). My current policy is get rid of all fake masons because silly gambits and lying are no good for town. Someone mentioned that the wagons keep changing because we have 2 competing scum factions, and I think that could be on track.

It's mischaracterising my position to say that I was 'called on it' and made AtE. I don't feel under attack from the people that have scum read me for wanting the mod kill. I get that everyone has a different view and that it could be a scum wanting a free townie kill, but in this instance it is a genuine townie wanting to get rid of liars. You'll only see that when I flip, and at any rate it doesn't really matter because no one else (not least the mod, who PMed me about it) went for the idea.

I claimed VT not to save myself from some potential lynch based on my modkill request, but for the sake of having town avoid accidentally lynching a PR. (If I wanted to save myself, I'd claim mason ). If we have to lose a townie today and it's not one of the 'lurkers' - although what qualifies as a lurker in this game is I think skewed by the ridiculous volume of posts from some players - then it may as well be me. It's absolutely

not

an appeal to emotion. Volunteering as tribute is a joke. I think it's rational, if you can't make a good choice (lynching fairly-certain scum, or someone who you're pretty sure isn't a PR and whose death will be revealing), to make the least-harmful choice, and lynching a VT is that. So, I'm volunteering myself if need be. I'm happy to sacrifice myself if it helps town overall. (Note that this is pretty much the opposite of one fake mason, who is prepared to derail the whole game in order to save her 'totally town' mate that she has no role confirmation on and no in-game proof of status).

[shannon]

IRL I am the kind of person who thanks the officer for a speeding ticket because it reminds me that I need to pay more attention when I'm driving

First of all - Bollocks.

You mean you

don't

think you should be punished for doing the wrong thing? I don't get that. Either the punishment is just or it's not, and if it's just, you have to accept it being applied to yourself. (And if you're doing something dangerous, you should be grateful that it was pointed out before you hurt someone). You really don't feel this way?! That's why mafia is fun for me, because when I'm scum I get to lie and it's part of the rules that I'm allowed to do that. I don't do it IRL, because if everyone did it, everything would fall apart.

However, I do share the exact same opinion with the fake mason claims.
If anything, those fake mason claims have ruined day 1 imo.

But you are volunteering to be voted off with the claim of being town?
What information would be gained from this? Even more so if you agree that there could be 2 factions.

I'm volunteering because I think the game is so stuffed up that town aren't going to be able to find scum today. So if it's between lynching a PR and lynching a VT, we should lynch a VT - and I can do my best to ensure that outcome by nominating myself. No info would be gained, except my flip I suppose. A few people have moved on and off me all Day but that's nothing significant I don't think. It's up to town whether gaining information is more important than not hitting a PR, but I'm here if there's no better option.

[shannon]

Not much time to really engage today as I'm ripping out our kitchen (FUN). I appreciate the people who have commented that I'm town but suck at playing it!

Quickly going to VOTE: Agar for no reason other than his is the majority wagon and I want to help town lynch *someone* today.

[shannon]

Gas fitter here unhooking oven, woo hoo ten minutes on my laptop. VOTE: Vedith since that's the thing to do.

[shannon]

So how's my idea of lynching all mason claims looking now? Nice one, Dunn.

[shannon]

Maybe Wake miscounted and there isn't a lynch yet.
I think I hate closed setups.

Well, +1 to this. Hoepfully the mod will be hsere soon to let us know

[shannon]

@Wake you're not the mod though

[shannon]

Sorry for L-1ing the dead guy (but not sorry becuase it was the right result), I didn't realise he was at L-2. Will count in future.

What do you think of my claim?

I don't think I should answer that. Obvious reasons.

Same reason that I claimed Dunn as a mason.[/quote]


Fairly unhappy with this response for Titus. Either you get the read from somewhere legit and you can share why you have it, or you don't have it.

OK.. I'm totally lost, so you guys work it out.

1- I'm the Jailkeeper
2- Dunn didn't shoot Lapsa bc I Jailed HIM (Dunn).
3- I let him go with it to see if he was faking, and it looks to me that he totally believed his shit, so he may still be a vig and all, but he DID NOT SHOOT LAPSA! Period.

Why not just let this point go and keep the JK in the game? I feel we've lost more than we've gained here.

VOTE: Mirhawk based on what Dunn says in 3010

[shannon]

Well so much for hitting submit vs preview.

Anyway... I was going to say I think we are ignoring the voting groups that were formed in D1. I still find it very peculiar that 5 of 10 votes were counted for Vedith late at night in a span of two hours. And I also think it's reasonable to suggest one of them could be scum. I also think it's even more reasonable the first 5 votes that were not part of that late blitz wagon also had scum in there. The post above is my take on those five votes. To be fair, I don't know if any of them would unvote during that blitz wagon as it was happening... but given the short time frame of it. Did they even have a choice?

Out of the five, three of them (AGar, Performer, PV) haven't responded in D2 so far... granted, it is a holiday. But they have quiet most of the game and I wouldn't expect them to unvote during that blitz. I'm open to looking at other groups who voted who in D1, but I do believe there is scum in this list.

^^FWIW it wasn't late night everywhere, I voted in the middle of the day when I logged on while getting lunch at my local shops!

[shannon]

Well, I was just happy to see an actual decision happening and decided, after seeing a few votes in a row on the same person, to join that same wagon. Probably should have checked how many votes were on in total, but it's bloody hard to do that over so. many. pages. of votes and unvotes. I would find more frequent vote counts to be helpful if the mod is up to it.

[shannon]

Yay server is back up!

Airick can you explain why you are soft defending Mirhawk with the null read in 3084? There are only four votes on him, why try to derail the wagon before we get a response from him?

[shannon]

Unless you're an alt you really

don't

give the impression that you know what you're doing.

You're worse

OK I have a theory and I'm pretty sure it's going to be shot down by a grown up but I want to try it out.

Titus is a bulletproof mafia traitor and Dunn is regular mafia.

How I arrived at this (and point out any flaws as you see them, there are heaps I'm sure).

1) Newbie games are 9:2 with a smattering of PRs, so I extrapolated from that to get 19:3 or 19:4 in this one
2) I speculated about what the roles would be, based on what's flipped and what has been claimed. I feel like I shouldn't go in to detail in case it's anti town but will if you want (I'm probably wrong anyway)
3) I think we are looking at a 'half mafia' player for balance, i.e. the traitor role
4) Titus claimed Masons with Dunn, with no way of knowing (if Titus is town) what Dunn's role is. I think this could actually be a way of Traitor Titus letting the main mafia faction know who she is. I think Titus might only know who one of the mafiosi is, not both of them, so she tried to save what she saw as the beginnings of a Dunn wagon using a strategy so implausible no one would believe it
5) This fits with Titus's claims that she can't tell us why Dunn is town without breaking the rules - what she's really saying is that she knows Dunn is scum but can't say why without revealing her role PM
6) Titus' early play, to me, fits the 'bad townie' role, and she has now toned it down I think after losing the other scum
7) I do think this could be, as Zach says in 872, the best scum gambit of 2016

Thoughts?

[shannon]

I'm pretty sure it's going to be shot down by a grown up

So... you're like a little kid?

1) Newbie games are 9:2 with a smattering of PRs, so I extrapolated from that to get 19:3 or 19:4 in this one

Games are balanced around 13 players, 10 town 3 mafia all the time. Suggesting that we have SIXTEEN town and three mafia is silly
(Note: There is 19 players in this game, not 19 town)

2) I speculated about what the roles would be, based on what's flipped and what has been claimed. I feel like I shouldn't go in to detail in case it's anti town but will if you want (I'm probably wrong anyway)
3) I think we are looking at a 'half mafia' player for balance, i.e. the traitor role

So we have:

Miller
Macho town
Jailkeeper
1-shot Vig

Mafia Naepolitan

As claims
And from that you got "mafia bulletproof traitor"

I mean it's fine to assume there's 5 mafia with one being a traitor (though that's pretty strong in scum numbers) but don't act like the roleclaims point to traitor when they don't

4) Titus claimed Masons with Dunn, with no way of knowing (if Titus is town) what Dunn's role is. I think this could actually be a way of Traitor Titus letting the main mafia faction know who she is. I think Titus might only know who one of the mafiosi is, not both of them, so she tried to save what she saw as the beginnings of a Dunn wagon using a strategy so implausible no one would believe it
5) This fits with Titus's claims that she can't tell us why Dunn is town without breaking the rules - what she's really saying is that she knows Dunn is scum but can't say why without revealing her role PM

How does a mafia traitor claiming mason with a mafia member let mafia know that they're the traitor, and not some random townie?

6) Titus' early play, to me, fits the 'bad townie' role, and she has now toned it down I think after losing the other scum

As opposed to you, who's been playing the bad person role by trying to get people modkilled?

Nothing you've done has contributed to town (except the vedith quickwagon). I bet you'd like to think you have, but you've only served to muddy the waters
(annoyingly, I'm pretty confident that you are town)

7) I do think this could be, as Zach says in 872, the best scum gambit of 2016

Thoughts?

You ignored, or forgot, that I also claimed 1-shot vig.

Here's my thoughts:

1. Start over without being tunneled on me and Titus.
2. The scum team isn't me and Vedith with Titus mafia traitor in a 19 person game. Point out things other people have done
3. In post 3012 you're sheeping me. What made you change your mind since then?

Can't work out how to do the quote in quote thing, so here goes.

1) Grown up refers to someone more experienced, and relative to that, I'm a kid in that I'm new. It's a joke, geez.

2) Alright, typo aside, 19 players to me is 4 scum (three and a half, with the traitor being a half player), and 15 town.

3) Yep, from that I got mafia bulletproof traitor. Actually the traitor thing came mostly from the masons claim.

4) A mafia traitor would probably find it useful to tell the other mafiosi who they are. One way of doing it could be to claim the same alignment as a known (to them) mafioso. If you were mafia and someone claimed to be masons with you, wouldn't you wonder why? Why would a random townie choose a mason gambit with another townie? (Right, because they somehow *know* the other person is town, but can't say why... that's what makes the whole thing look dodgy).

5) Trying to get someone modkilled is not naughty if you think that person is scum. Win at any cost.

6) I know you claimed one-shot vig, and immediately, someone stepped in to say that your kill hadn't gone through. Two options: Either you're genuine and were prevented from taking the shot (or the target was protected from one shot but two were made on it), *or* you were trying to draw out more info for scum and were prepared to die for it.

7) There's no need to be nasty by saying things like 'you haven't been useful but I bet you think you have'. I'm well aware that I haven't been as useful as some people have been, I'm not completely without self-awareness. It's also not conducive to good town morale.

8) You've got no reason to worry about me tunnelling you if you think I've got no sway over the game. I'm happy to support the general town wagons, and I probably won't have a go at you again, but I wanted to get this out there.

[shannon]

Yeah, not thrilled with the post count stuff. If Dunn has like 500 posts and that's the standard for the game, if everyone posted that much we'd be in thousands of pages right now. Also when I was waking up to like 300 new posts it's a bit hard to catch up with all the content, much less post a comparative amount.

[shannon]

*sigh*

[shannon]

Can you pop up a feminist ryan gosling meme with that? It would help

[shannon]

Far be it from me not to jump on a wagon. VOTE: Performer

[shannon]

Is there a T?

[shannon]

Ok I will stick with T olease

[shannon]

Transcend that's not the spirit of the game!

[shannon]

[shannon]

What are the chances we find a replacement?

[shannon]

Is there an N

[shannon]

Google tells me that Boem's avatar is of a Croatian singer, is that right?

[shannon]

I support the request for Kraska to claim. I don't think Kraska realises quite what the situation is here, if she doesn't claim she's toast as far as I'm concerned.

[shannon]

So is Kraska claiming or what?

[shannon]

Yeah I can see the no claim as a scum tactic for sure. Can we get this wagon back up and rolling to push for a claim please?

[shannon]

guys can we pressure agar or titus
or podokhkjfjkl
how about that
prefer the first two

I don't know why podoboq's name is so hard for people, it's symmetrical

I could happily see the end of Titus. I think her style has really changed since the heady days of the mason claims and I can only think it's a response to having so much negative attention on her. Same with Zach.

[shannon]

Well, can't argue with faux olde english

VOTE: Titus

[shannon]

Not sure about that cat fight though

[shannon]

Dunnstral why didn't you vig this? For fucks sake, man.

Because she's kind of obvious town??

Trust me if I had any thoughts of her being scum I'd have shot her following the force replace thing

I cannot be any more transparent here. I'm struggling to keep up with all the players, let alone the volume of posts. So the best thing I can do is be obvious about my towniness (plain vanilla as it might be) so that I'm not taking up game space by having debate about myself. I've volunteered myself as a 'minimal impact' lynch in case it comes about that town can't agree and *has to* lynch *someone*. I am reading along but don't have much to say that hasn't already been said. Once we're down to a dozen players or so I'm sure I'll be more across the game and more able to contribute (if I live that long).

But hey, if you're scum and trying to pick me off, go ahead and do it - I'd rather the game lose me than lose a PR.

[shannon]

VOTE: Mirhawk, I think this is L-2 depending on my ability to count, please check before voting <3

[shannon]

I smell a rat.

Lynch either Dunnstral or Titus.

Finally! I have been on these two all game and I'm so, so over the constant deflection and allowing myself to be deflected.

I HAVEN'T READ ANYTHING.
WHAT'S UP MY N-WORDS?
DON'T WORRY, I'M TOWN
I'VE GOT YOUR BACK.

Consider the crumbs now that you know I'm a back-up Nurse.

If that's a crumb, it's a very easy one to miss...

It definitely drew my attention the first day but I didn't know what to make of it, I've never heard of nurse before.

I don't see how we can essentially have 2 protective roles and 2 backup roles

If anything, there is no nurse and the backup nurse is just for the mafia neapolitan which seems likely actually

maybe mafia does have a traitor?

If mafia has a traitor can I get a prize please?

podog

I don't know why podoboq's name is so hard for people, it's symmetrical

There's no g in my name.

Also, shannon, I'm totally sigging this when this game ends.

Happy to have contributed.

Because Titus is scum.
Also because fake-masons gambit with someone they don't even have a PT with.

Mod says if the Nurse becomes a Doctor and they die, I get to become a Doctor.
So I'm not totally useless as far as mechanics go.

First bit of this sums it up, it seemed so implausible as a scum move but with all these other random claims it doesn't seem that way any more.

[shannon]

Awww, I missed the excitement!

[shannon]

Can't see I'm sorry to see Titus out of the game, but I'm sorry we lost a townie. If I had to guess why she went, I reckon it's because scum didn't believe some of the PR claims, and thought Titus was a PR. That, or it was a WIFOM muck around thing.

[shannon]

Who was the person with the role claim spreadsheet? I feel like it would come in really handy right now. At least we know who to wagon next


^^ I didn't even count I just joined Mirhawk's wagon! I guess I got impatient waiting for something to happen.

[shannon]

Congratulations

[shannon]

Can I do the L-1 without saying anything thing again?

[shannon]

I am having heaps of fun in this game doing things I don't normally do, like voting without counting! This must be what it's like for people who don't follow rules IRL!

VOTE: Mirhawk

[shannon]

beeboy might not be town anymore idk idk idk help me lord

The only thing I can say about Beeboy is that I just finished a game where I replaced him, in what looked like a tactical replace out as scum (i.e. he claimed he had heaps going on but surprise, here he is in this massive game now). So I think that if he was scum here he might have replaced out also. (I won House of Cards by the way Beeboy).

a50 who did you roleblock today?

*Scratches Head*

Airick!! This is getting confusing. we have at least 2 Mafioso members on the lose, and I'm not sure if the second kill the comes from vig or some second killing role with X shots. And yes, 2 Machos apparently were in the setup together, so I'm confused as hell.

My list of suspects include Transcend, beeboy and AGar, but I have no case on either tbh. Any good ideas?

At what point do we stop believing that Dunn is an X-shot Vig and start thinking it's a long-terms scum or SK gambit?

Claiming VT wasn't hard to do, but I don't see how it matters to you guys at this point. With all the fake claims in the game, any PR role I'd claim would be scrutinized, which I wouldn't blame you for.

This reads as scummy to me. Not the VT bit, the explanation - 'any PR role I'd claim would be scrutinised' sounds like scum explaining why they didn't claim a PR. I mean if you're VT you just need to say it, not give an explanation about why you're not claiming a PR instead.

Regarding last night's kills, either those two were on to something and got offed for it, or we really do have a town vig with bad taste in targets.

I am a

3

-shot vigilante (I know, right) and I basically kamikazed into the bomb claim, having used up all my shots

Why'd he FAKE CLAIM that's part of the reason I shot at him, didn't think there was a 3-shot vig and bomb as town killing roles in the same game

He also hard defended scum and hard pushed town so good run I guess

Why did you fake claim masons and then 1 shot and then 2 shot and now 3 shot vig?

[shannon]

@AGar.

1) How is it SK play to claim vig at all and make yourself an obvious scum target by publicly confirming yourself as not-mafia (even if he didn't confirm this until today technically it's obvious that he was trying to)
2)

This is 3rd party play, folks. This is why we have had wonky kill counts.

How does an SK explain wonky kill counts better than a vig? Do you think he'd have lied about targets as an SK?
3)

Mainly deflection, trying to pin scum between two players she knows would implicate her if we were nightkilled.

You describe Kraska's play this way. What about her literal constant pushing of flipped-scum Mirhawk from the get-go of her replacing in?

1) Confirming self as not-mafia and a killer, could be a traitor still? (I am so clinging to this I really want to be right about it)

I think we really just need to make a single post that contains all the day/night kills and who claimed them and who claimed to have defended or jailkept or whatever. The answer we're looking for will be in there, I think. Unless scum are really really good we're going to find an inconsistency or something that was later proven by a town flip. I'll have a go at this tonight if no one else has by then. Only a few hundred pages to look through, how long can it take?

[shannon]

OK I'm up to Page 62!

Here's everything I've got so far about claims, spoilered. Comments at the end. Sorry for crappy formatting in the comments, have run out of brain and it's time for bed.

Spoiler:

33 – Transcend said he planned to RVS mirhawk the entire time, Implosion comments : I doubt he’d have claimed this if they were scum together

35 – Lapsa says it was null but likes the reasoning

67 – Titus claims Dunn is town based on unknowable/unsayable stuff

91- Varsoon

I HAVEN'T READ ANYTHING.
WHAT'S UP MY N-WORDS?
DON'T WORRY, I'M TOWN
I'VE GOT YOUR BACK.

161 – Zach says VLA is a perfect ‘not get lynched’ card for Airick

207 – Performer responding to A50 - I would think it'd be harder to win after you fake claim, then hard claim on day 1. I believe Aeronaut hosted a game this year where PRs outed themselves early on . Scum won that game.


216 – Performer wants to avoid unnecessary PR talk D1

240 – Performer

I just realized that there are literally only 4 people I played with , in here.
Nosferatu, do you recall the game where Firebringer was scum with Xtoxm Traitor, and what's his face as the 3rd scum? There's something strange going on here and I 'd like for you to try to look at that game. I'm going to dig into that game as well (moderated by chamber). I think that may help us in discerning alignment for Mr. X.

242 – Performer

@Nos I just found it! Man, I sound a little weird in that game LOL. Embarrassingly weird. Guess that's what happens when you're still only 3 months into FM. That game still brings tears to my ears when I read it . Such fantastic townplay. There was constant TvT too but we learned to look over it and focus on the right people. I wish I can say the person's name but I don't want to paint a target on the person.


323 – Zach, Performer, Implosion interesting stuff

347 – Lapsa claims Macho

349 – Titus calls it a gambit and says ‘me too’

367 – Boem says Transcend is going to look very silly after his flip

387 – Performer
Ok. This is going to sound crazy but I want to point out 2 people in here who I want to limit any serious interaction with on d1 at least, because I'm afraid for their safety. I don't want to paint targets on their backs , as I have a huge bias toward specific people and may accidentally draw too much attention to them.

Person X: I played with you when I was Town Mailman and you were in a hydra. We were both town.
We were also VTs in the 14-man large normal, which had 1-shot Bp Doc and Bp Bg.
Time and time again, you can read me well.

Person Y: We played in the Mini Normal where you survived as PR the entire game - impressive. You read me well and defended me throughout the game, which made a further impression on me. I was constantly in this back-and-forth with another Townie. We were both town. In this game , there was a 2-man scum team with 1 Mafia Traitor. I think this game was back in Nov 2015.

412 – Implosion doubts scum would randomly claim macho


499 – Dunn adamant Titus is town

542 – Zach I could vote myself and you'd still need an NK to touch me. Facts.


692 – Dunn specs 3 mafia 3 werewolf bunch of town PRs

793 – Titus claims masons with Dunn (Dunn’s comment on hearing the werewolves ‘howling’)

872 – Zach asks what’s stopping the Masons being NKed, Dunn (873) hopes for doc or (874) JK, bodyguard, mafia having pity

918 – Dunn ‘wouldn’t fake claim’

925 – Wake: Looks bad for Dunn if Titus flips non-mason

959 – Boem is not sure what to make of Masons, I've never played this setup before so I'm confused. All that metagame talk and reading other players based on their metagame doesn't help me either because I've never played with you people before (or this setup) so I feel this game is somewhat beyond my reach at the moment. But I'll keep trying.

925 – Wake

968 – Shannon says not to waste an investigative PR on her (977 Wake questions why) (987 – Boem It can be argued both both ways in my opinion. If you are town you don't want investigative PR to "waste" a check by investigating you. Scum can also ask investigative PR to check them to try to appear like they have nothing to hide. Conclusion: this discussion is pointless.

In my opinion, investigative PR should check people who tend to stay long in the game, that means not getting shot by mafia often.)
1328 – Performer It sounds like you're saying PRs aren't that important.?


1334 Varsoon - Think of it this way. We're playing poker. Dunnstral and Titus just went all in on the first hand. Are you going to fold, or will you meet their gambit and call?
I, for one, am a gambling man. I know what I've got up my sleeves, and I'm confident they're bluffing.

1337 – Varsoon and Zach fake claim masons

1344 – Varsoon
I've got your 'back' is the clue to look at things from back to front.
What's up my N-words is actually referencing Mason, because if read from back to front, it's Nosam.
Furthermore, in my last game as a Mason (Cohen Brothers Mafia), I was not town despite being in a Masonry.
That's why I said "Don't worry, I'm town" here.

Why would I make such a post without reading anything?
What point does it serve?
Purely role-crumbing.


1349 Implosion - This is such a misrepresentation of why we shouldn't vote the masons.

-The odds of it being a scum gambit are so horrifically low. The risk/reward of claiming masons on d1 as scum is absolutely terrible.
-They are outed as power roles; they are, therefore, likely to be killed at night, meaning we don't have to try to sort them at all.
-If by some miracle they are scum, they will keep surviving nights and they will become more and more likely scum candidates as the days go by, allowing us much more confidence in sorting them later
-If we lynch other scum in that time, then the more scum we lynch, the more unlikely the masons are to be lying, making it easier to sort them later
-At massclaim, if there is a huge abundance of power being claimed, they also become easier to sort then


1411 – (if there are masons, which was a gambit) - The other possibility is like, 4 mafia, 1 serial killer, 1 vigillante, and masons?

Zach doesn't know but having like three night kills in these here large setups is the NORM


1417 -
Ok. what's wrong with that? I'm outted mason so why can't I speculate on the setup? I'm not rolefishing and I can't let slip my role by speculating so ??


1474 - Titus knows it, assuming me and her don't both die, it will be revealed later. Or maybe you get shot by vig?

Lapsa is who I would shoot if I were a vig
1524 – Dunn says ‘vig shoot Zac’
1525 – Zach says Dunn: Vig waste your shot

Comments (note: I haven't gone back to check whether the people here are still alive, I'm going off the top of my head)

- 33 reads differently now that Mirhawk has flipped scum. Look at Transcend and Implosion

Dunn

What was the reason Titus thought Dunn was town that perpetuated the mason claim?
Dunn was adamant that Titus was town in 499, why so sure? (scum?)
Titus decides to fake claim masons based on Dunn's comment about hearing the werewolves 'howling'. Dunn can you tell us what you meant here?
Dunn wouldn't fake claim (918), Wake says it looks bad for Dunn if Titus flips non-mason (925). So now this has happened, even though we know Mason was a gambit, what are the implications for Dunn?

Liked Implosion's analysis of the mason claim. Especially this part applies to Dunn now- "If by some miracle they are scum, they will keep surviving nights and they will become more and more likely scum candidates as the days go by, allowing us much more confidence in sorting them later"

1474 - Dunn says "Titus knows it, assuming me and her don't both die, it will be revealed later. Or maybe you get shot by vig? Lapsa is who I would shoot if I were a vig. 1524 – Dunn says ‘vig shoot Zac’
1525 – Zach says Dunn: Vig waste your shot

Given that Dunn has claimed Vig and apparently didn't hit anyone N1, what do we make of this?

Performer

Performer being all cryptic in 240, 242, 387 mentioning games but not names. Why?

Lapsa

Lapsa claimed Macho in 347, did anything come of this?

Boem

Boem soft claims a PR, says Transcend is going to look 'very silly' after Boem flips. But is now claiming VT?
Boem seems unsure of himself around 959, but more sure of himself now. Just from playing the game, or was it fake earlier on?

Varsoon

1334 Varsoon says he knows what he's got in his hand and he's confident the mason claim was a bluff. 1344 gives a bullshit explanation that his 'N WORD' post was a mason crumb, after Zach dragged him in to a mason caim. Has since said it was a Nurse crumb. I think Varsoon is as good as conf town.

[shannon]

does said doctor wanna claim to validate varsoon

Like I honestly cannot imagine a 5:14 game being balanced without really ridiculous amounts of town power. I guess I could imagine something like 4+traitor:14 being balanced but then the jailkeeper being strong thing is still relevant because normal traitors on mafiascum can't be converted to full mafia.

Sorry to have missed the start of the day, I've been flat-out with our kitchen reno.

So wait, Dunn is now claiming full vig? What happened to saying you'd never fake claim? How do we know you're not a serial killer?

I want to confirm my earlier VT claim. I don't fully understand what's going on right now with all the 'we can mislynch x number of people and y can protect z and then we'll work it out', I think I need to re-read all that. So I'll just reiterate my previous offer to be a boring town mislynch in case there's not a good scum case to go on.

I am not voting yet, I need to re-read what's happened so far today first.

[shannon]

Well I have some stuff to say but this might influence NK 3 so i will shutup and leave it to day 4

What was this about?

i forgot

Have you remembered yet?

when I say rolecop I mean an actual rolecop. It's theoretically possible they have both a rolecop and a neapolitan, given how many non-vanilla town there are. I'm saying the only way I can imagine beeboy being a scumkill is if he had been rolecopped or in some other way suspected as an odd night cop or other PR.

The question I have here is why are the N2 and N3 kills on vanilla townies, if there is a role cop? Like surely if you'd investigated someone and found them to be VT, you'd pick someone else to NK? (Or I guess maybe they investigated one of us VT and took a punt that someone else would be a PR and got it wrong, but ??)

Odd-night cop, motion detector, a vig, doctor/nurse/backup nurse, jailkeeper. Somebody is lying here or there is no way 4 mafia are among 19 players. This is too much power for town.

Doctor/nurse/backup nurse is essentially just a harder to kill doctor, though?

kraska, another possible that the reason for scum's killing pattern is that they were afraid of the doctor chain.

How would they know about the doctor chain, though? Or why wouldn't they kill of the nurse or the backup nurse, and stop the chain that way?

VOTE: Almost50

what a load of horse shit.

Except it's probably not, for I am indeed a

4

-shot vig and shot at beeboy.

So either mafia targetted beeboy with me, they targetted zach, or zach made the kill

By the way that's the second person I've successfully called out on fake claiming with my shots but then they turn out to be town anyway. I have to kindly ask you guys to stop fake claiming

If A50 did jailkeep Zach, then either mafia targeted beeboy too, they targeted zach, or *nope* zach can't have made the kill. So which is more likely, mafia targeting beeboy, them targeting zach, or you being mafia or sk?

Dunnstral, you're gonna need to actually explicitly claim full vig. The bullshit isn't doing you any good anymore.

Here's the plan. We direct the vig and the jailkeeper.

Both Almost50 and Dunnstral need to claim their shots before the night phase hits.

They will of course need to be on separate people. The doctor protects Almost50, because the jailkeep is extremely valuable with only one mafia member remaining.

Every night that someone other than Dunnstral's target dies, we get a clear based on who A50 roleblocked, assuming there's only one mafia left, which I think is somewhat safe - I don't think the amount of town power claimed justifies a 5-man scumteam with at least 3 power roles in a 19-player game.

There's two versions of this plan: with or without massclaim. If we massclaim the upside is obviously more clarity; the downside is that we'll out the doctor, which means that we'll essentially have two guaranteed nights of this plan occurring, as mafia will have to kill the doctor and then varsoon. Massclaiming is

probably

better.

But the important thing is that we play this game very rigorously at this point. We have tons of town power still alive (even if A50 is scum, he'll be severely limited in his night actions) and so many mislynches. I really just want to play it safe since we have that option and eliminate even the smallest chance of letting this win slip away.

Is it better to vote for no lynch then, and extend our chances? Also, what are the implications if there are >1 mafia left?

[shannon]

What do you mean I'm being weird and not wagon happy? Someone said we need to think more before we vote, so I'm thinking.

[shannon]

Whatever let's just lynch zach. If he actually flips town, vig me during the night and you're left with all the people being town read so far
If zach flips town then shannon might be a good starting place to look into imo

This seems kind of ... out there?

Note: a50 claimed jailkeep targets on people who hadn't claimed. So if he were mafia fake claiming that he could be caught by someone saying 'no I wasn't roleblocked" so if he were mafia he'd be role cop or another roleblocker

This is interesting...

Varsoon was beeboy's first check
Just lynch zach lol, if he actually flips town then vig me because I know i look shady too and noone will trust me and then lynch shannon day 6

Why waste a lynch on someone who's not being suspected though? What happened to comparing all the claims and seeing who we have left? Or maybe that's the response you're hoping to get? IDK.

[shannon]

I think we can do better than 'whomever', we need to look for the person whose flip will tell us most, outside of the PR claims. (Or I would support a vote on Dunn for shitty lying all game but I don't expect others to go for policy at this point).

To me, there's no way we're lynching just anyone, so let's look at the most realistic candidates and make a reasonable choice.

Probably at this point, it's all the VT claims, so me, Kraska, and Zach. I don't know what my VT flip is going to tell you, besides the fact that I was genuine. I haven't noticed anyone trying to buddy me or put me down, in fact, no one has paid much attention to me at all. Zach has had lots of interaction and so maybe his flip would tell us more. Kraska I think is somewhere in between. But anyway, the offer still stands, if we need a relatively safe town lynch today you won't hit a PR if you choose me.

[shannon]

OK forgot those two whoops.

[shannon]

It would have made heaps of difference if he'd claimed and shared, I guess he didn't think he was in danger

[shannon]

If there are two mafia left, does that change the plan?

[shannon]

We don't, but if the plan works iff there is one mafioso left and not if there are two or more left, maybe it's prudent to get a different plan?

[shannon]

taking a look at d1, shannon's nearly conf town b/c at EOD TWO scum were voting her.

Airick's vote was parked on AGar.

All the blues (Shannon, Boem, AGar, Zach, Performer/Kraska) had their vote parked on Vedith so if someone bussed it was them.

Varsoon's vote was parked on Titus with mafiascum superstars Lapsa and Wake88 but we all agree he's ~probably~ town

A50 and implosion were voting AGar at the time. I don't remember what influenced the few votes he got. But implosion is basically conf town, and A50 is like 90% conf town.

All other PR's (Dunn, soda) were voting Vedith.

Just some food for thought.

I can only imagine that scum thought I was a fast train to mislynch, I managed to piss of Zach and Titus and Dunn all on D1. Saying that all the VTs bussed is as good as saying none of us did! Narrow it down a bit? What are you thinking about as the implications of all this stuff?

FWIW I don't trust Dunn and I haven't all game. (This will not be a surprise).

[shannon]

I am so not sure but I think either Dunn (as SK maybe), AGar, or Zach, with Boem and Kraska equal 4th.

PEdit: Maybe they thought Zach was another PR?

[shannon]

If you think that, are you going to vote A50?

[shannon]

OK VOTE: AGar

[shannon]

Ok I'm the fool, what if you are nked and we don't get your result?


Also what if scum team s transcend and Zach

[shannon]

Guys can we think some more before we vote? To me it looks like we're going to rush a lynch and then have no time to work out who is protecting whom tonight, leaving it wide open for a potential scum-faux-PR to say whatever suits them tomorrow.

(No, Kraska, I'm not scum this time, I'm still a VT and still happy to sacrifice myself if need be, but I reckon we can do more thinking and less speed lynching at the moment).

[shannon]

Varsoon has no motion so both him and the doctor are clear if there's one scum.

Would Dunnstral not shoot here?

Kraska Zach and Boem are all town as fuck.

It's gotta fucking be A50.

VOTE: A50

Or Varsoon is scum and cleverly decided not to do anything tonight just in case?

zac is clear of solo scum

anyways

n1 varsoon - someone visited him

n2 dunn - he visited soemone

n3 wake88 - motion detected

n4 implosion - motion detected

n5 varsoon - motion detected

Let me get this straight: you lucked out and just happened to target a result-giving person every night? I don't think so....

VOTE: Transcend

[shannon]

You're right, i didn't.

Varsoon no motion n5 lol.

Thanks for giving me my first vote since like d1.

The varsoon thing was expected though.

On N1, we had 18 players alive, and you just happened to target the right one. OK, fair enough. But then it happened again the next night? And the next? And the next? Either you are an excellent judge of character and knew all along who was going to be doing the visiting or be visited, or you had some other kind of scum based knowledge of same.

[shannon]

Ummm is anyone missing the fact that in the best case scenario, we have only got a few mislynches left? I would rather explore all possibilities than rush a choice just because 'everyone' wants to.

And I don't 'know' that lynching Boem won't win the game, but given how sure everyone was yesterday about *that* lynch winning the game, you'll excuse me for being a little hesitant. Unless we are 100% sure about Boem, we should spend some of the remaining 13 days 13 hours and 12 minutes (at this point) to work out a plan for D5. Not to mention, if there's more than one scum then we are going to find it pretty hard to win if we mislynch today.

Given that I have now said all this, against popular opinion, and that Kraska and Zach are trying to scum read me for it, I imagine that I'm toast tomorrow (if indeed the Boem lynch doesn't end the game). So, fingers crossed that there's only one scum. I'm not changing my vote.

[shannon]

Since the probability of me being scum is 0, it has to be Boem with the higher chance (or he's not scum either). Time will tell I guess.

[shannon]

To me, this is how it looks:

Town has had lots of non-vanilla roles claimed, which accounts for the presence of the mafia neapolitan, who can only tell vanilla-or-not. Given the other two scum flips (2 shot commuter, and jailkeeper), it seems like the setup is supposed to help scum find PRs and kill them, and also to give scum some chance of avoiding town vigilante. (Yeah, duh). But scum aren't getting toooo much help in finding PRs - neapolitan results are mucked up by the presence of the machos and any less-useful town roles that might exist, like 'back up nurse'.

From the town side, any protective roles are ineffective on the two machos that have flipped so far. We've had a doctor flip, and the odd-night cop. The odd night cop suggests that a full cop would be over powered, like the odds of investigating and finding a scum role would be too high if you could do it every night. The doctor is, well, a doctor.

In all of this we also have had three VTs flip (I make four), plus a mod-confirmed motion detector whose side is unknown. There's also the 'I am a doctor now, I used to be back-up-nurse' claim, of which we can't establish the veracity.

So here are the options I have:

1) The motion detector is scum. It compliments the general vagueness of the other scum PRs, and gives a result that points scum in the general direction of town PRs (the person motion-detected is either a PR or someone a PR thinks worthwhile saving/investigating).

2) The scum team are the nurse and back up nurse, and the whole thing is a gambit.

3) The motion detector is town and there's a scum ninja who can't be seen. I don't know whether this would be an OP scum team with the commuter and the jailkeeper as well?

4) There's one more scum role, don't know what, and it's among the VT claims.

What does everyone else think?

[shannon]

Also - -

This game contains Mafia Daytalk.
In this game, the last surviving mafia may use both factional kill and his ability at the same time.

[shannon]

I think the play here is lynch Transcend, if he flips town then A50 jailkeeps shannon. I think I misspoke earlier, right? shannon is the only one motion-cleared, and zach and kraska are jailkeep-cleared.

I am almost sure that A50 (JK) and Transcend (MD) are on opposite teams, and that the scum are one of A50 and Kraska.

A50's JK of Kraska has left her to suppose that I'm the only unchecked person left and therefore must be scum. Except that Transcend MDed me last night and got nothing. No problem for Kraska, she now thinks I'm a ninja. I'm unsure whether this is clever manipulation by A50, a push on a convenient option by Kraska, or team work.

The two could be working together, and with 4:2 remaining they'd need one mislynch and a NK for the win. They could have been trying to set me up for an easy mislynch today, but that Transcend MD-cleared me.

The other option is that Transcend is scum, but if he is he's running out of chances to fake a guilty on someone and still have a plausible explanation for previous nights. If he's scum he's alone, because a 4:2 split would have meant that he could have won by faking a guilty on me last night, thereby mislynching me today (3:2) and then a NK for the win. So Transcend is either solo scum, or all but conf town.

Which brings me back to A50 and Kraska...

[shannon]

If *I* were scum, why were there no NK's on night 4?

[shannon]

And shannon could be a rb *shrugs*

If shannon were town she would have been killed long ago

uh, what?

Over the dunnstral and varsoon kills that were made? I fail to see the logic here.

Killing known PRs makes much more sense than killing VTs and hoping to find one. Especially someone like me, who has claimed VT since early, and exerted no real influence in terms of leading lynches and the like.

Varsoon kill feels like scum just ran out of options
With the way vts were being jailed and MDed every night, varsoon would have looked more suspicious. His kill also completely clears you, so for anyone who was entertaining the "maybe there are 2 scum left" line of thought, that's one possible team crossed and solo scum looks more and more likely now
Dunn would have continued to vig one of the vts each night, why would someone outside the vt pool kill him early?

I don't quite get what you're saying about Varsoon, but his death means that now once the doc is gone, there are no more docs left for town. Leaving him alive, while it might have made him look suspicious (but would it really?), would have been a fail move for scum. This way, our JK (if indeed they are town) has to protect the doc, leaving all the rest of us unprotected until we can work out who's doing the killing.

One idea for Dunn's death is that his actions were indistinguishable from those of a SK, so a remaining mafia member might have wanted him gone just to ensure their own survival in case he was actually a SK?

[shannon]

Either A50 did the NK, or he pretended to jail Kraska and she did it.

[shannon]

Can we afford two more lynches?

[shannon]

Shannon all the questions you directed at me are stuff I already answered
And a me-a50 team is ridiculous
For me it's either a shannon lynch today or no lynch

Kraska, if you're town your reasoning is flawed. Here's why.

Assuming one scum is left:

Lynch me today and a successful NK = 3:1 which makes town in MYLO. If you aren't willing to accept any other candidates for scum, you've got to be pretty certain about me to take this risk (and it's a wrong risk to take, because I'm towny as). You're going to have to find another scum candidate tomorrow if this happens, so you better start looking at them now.

Assuming two scum are left:

Lynch me today and a successful night kill = 2:2 = town loses.

By all means, continue on as though you think I'm the scum. But I can tell you I'm not, so you better use the rest of today to work out who else looks suspicious, because if you lynch me town is either going to MYLO or we've lost outright.

A better strategy for Town Kraska should be -

Assuming one scum is left:

Lynch (someone else who everyone else thinks is suss) and a successful NK = 3:1 MYLO. It's still not me that's scum, and I might even be the NK, but at least you've given town one more day to reason with you, and everyone else has got a chance to off someone they agree is more suspicious.

Bonus idea: Jailkeeper on me tonight. Scum, if they don't make the night kill in order to try to finger me, will be at 4:1 and that gives us another lynch (3:1) plus a night kill (2:1) and then we're in LYLO. A whole extra day to work out who's scummy, if scum try this strategy.


Assuming two scum are left:

Lynch (anyone except the JK) today and have the JK on me tonight. I can't possibly kill anyone (not that I could anyway, town, remember) and we'll have another candidate for oh wait, doesn't matter, we've lost if we mislynch today and there are two scum.


Basically, Kraska, if you lynch me today and the scum team is 2 players, we're stuffed. I've also outlined how any other strategy than lynching me today should be useful to you, because it potentially gives town another day to work out what's going on. If I'm scum, and you're 'on to me', then I'm only delaying the inevitable because I fully expect you'll try for me tomorrow. But given I'm town, I've got to try to get you to see reason because if you mislynch me today without any other scum candidate in mind, we're toast.

[shannon]

Are u guys seriously outlining all of this here so that scum shannon could conveniently not NK

Are you seriously not reading my posts? Because I already wrote one in which I suggested that if you are so sure I'm scum, we need to lynch elsewhere today and then JK me tonight (or whatever role it is doing the blocking) to prove you otherwise.

[shannon]

If shannon kills then it clears me of solo scum and I'll have a conf jk on a50. Plus we are in Mylo now. We can nl and it won't make us lose the game. If they kill, we are in lylo.

Wait, how do you know we're in MYLO? There are six of us, the only way we're in MYLO is if there are two scum. SLIP?!?

A50 doesn't make sense as scum
And I'm pretty sure transcend is town
So let's lynch shannon today

If you lynch me today you need to find someone else to lynch tomorrow (assuming only one scum), and it's do-or-die. So you better spend today looking for another candidate for tomorrow instead of just rush pushing me, because killing me won't give you the win unless you're scum. Try to see past your biases here because you're going to need another lynch tomorrow if you kill me today and it has to be right.

Well if you jail shannon anyway it doesn't really matter if she NKs or not

if shannon is green the scum doesn't NK to frame her

But A50 scum is ludicrous in my eyes sorry so if that's the conclusion we're going to come to, I'm lynching shannon today.

Yes, Yes, wait, what?!

Also: Is it possible that both the PRs are the scum team, and that's why the results are mutually reinforcing?

[shannon]

It seems I need to keep saying this. I'm not mafia.

If you lynch me today, you're either losing tomorrow if we're in MYLO now, or you need to find someone else to lynch tomorrow

. So instead of speed lynching me, take some time to look at who else makes sense because you're going to have to find someone tomorrow.

If i'm going to by lynched today, I want to do everything I can to make sure town wins, and that means getting you to think about who scum really is, because it's not me!

[shannon]

VOTE: No Lynch

[shannon]

@mod can we please make the night thing happen quickly? I know I've asked the past two nights but tonight is apparently extra super important xx

[shannon]

DO YOU TRANSCEND? I COULDN'T TELL

[shannon]

Ok, why is implosion confirmed again?

[shannon]

Didn't a50 already claim the 'wrong' protect earlier in the game, like n3 or n4ish? He said he protected Zach and a pr died.

[shannon]

beeboy

,

Town Odd-Night Cop

, was killed Night 4.[/area

Really?!

Well, I probably messed up then.

I was going to Jail beeboy last night bc he was my top suspect, but figured if I was wrong a kill would go through anyway, so opted to protect Zach instead!

I had previously thought he was BP and was counting on that to protect him, but when I put it in the open his response gave me the impression I made the wrong assumption there and I couldn't even find where I got it from.

So, anyway .. Zack was my N4 target, and before people start confusing themselves and asking again:

Dunn on N1
kraska on N2
Airick on N3
Zach on N4

This one. All his other jail keeps have been 'good', except this time Zach was jked and a pr died. I think it could be a fake jk claim, or a scum jk? So long as he doesn't kill the person he was supposed to be protecting, scum A50 looks no different from town jk A50.

[shannon]

A50 is conftown because of n4 but this doesn't make sense
I can't make sense of the NK but I still think it's shannon?

The quote I just posted was N4, how does it confirm A50 as town?

[shannon]

If the claimed jk is scum then none of us are cleared, since he would be lying about results at least some
Of the time.

Sorry on mobile as my house internet is down

[shannon]

But why the remaining scum would target an announced jk target is beyond me...

Just remembered I can use my phone as a hotspot

I reckon the scum is the claimed jailkeeper and therefore knew exactly who to target. No one else would have expected the JK target to be unprotected.

[shannon]

if kraska is trusting A50, I should be clear according to A50's claim so by extension I should be town in her eyes.

why aren't you clearing kraska and shannon based on this though. They're also clear if they're non-strongman scum. You're the same level of clear as they are.

Yeah based on this, anyone who A50 has cleared is the same level of clear. Unless A50 is scum, and then none of us is clear. Like Zach if you're town, you're like 'yeah, A50 cleared me and since I'm town he was totally on the ball, I bet one of those other VT claims is the scum'. But the problem is that all of the VTs think the same way. If we accept that all PR claims are true, I'm looking at you or Kraska, because I was 'cleared' by A50 and I know it's not me.

If A50 is scum it's a pretty clever tactic to have claimed to have protected me and taken out the other PR. Now we're less likely to risk lynching A50 (since he's our last claimed PR) and everyone is confused about who the scum is.

[shannon]

OK, sorry, but the general vibe still stands. He's managed to take out another PR and we are less likely to lynch in the PR group because their numbers are dwindling.

[shannon]

But wasn't Kraska JKed and a kill still went through?

[shannon]

What stops you from being a strongman?

[shannon]

Alright so I've been jailed with a kill through and motion detected with a kill through, so I"m not solo scum, even as strongman.

Kraska could be solo scum strongman, she's only been jailed with a kill through.

A50 could be scum faking the JK results, but others seem to think not.

[shannon]

Seriously though, what nights were you JKed or MDed and what else happened those nights?

[shannon]

Implosion has claimed doc, is it possible that he has been faking protection on people and killing elsewhere?

[shannon]

No, just read over his ISO, it seems totally towny.

[shannon]

For me it's either A50 (general liar) or Zach and/or Kraska (strongman among them, though not needed if they're a team)

[shannon]

Yeah. OK, so back to you - which nights were you protected/monitored, and who died those nights?

[shannon]

Wish this game had links to each day start on teh first page

[shannon]

beeboy

,

Town Odd-Night Cop

, was killed Night 4.[/area

(edited out irrelevant stuff)

So, anyway .. Zack was my N4 target, and before people start confusing themselves and asking again:

Dunn on N1
kraska on N2
Airick on N3
Zach on N4

Zach N5
kraska N6
Shannon N7


Let's see how A50's theory stacks up now -

Wait, can you explain that theory in more detail?

I already did, but I need both Dunn and Varsoon to confirm or refute my theory.

PV did not protect anyone on N1. We only had one kill.

I'm adding my own notes in bold here

I blocked the Vig shot on Lapsa, but he still died.

Does this imply the existence of a scum strongman?

A third killing role (2nd scum kill) failed at someone. That was either Zach (claimed BP) or Varsoon (maybe BP but didn't claim it?). The reason i think it might be Varsoon is Transcend saying Varsoon got visited on N1, and nobody claimed that visit as of yet.

Varsoon is now confirmed back up nurse. So who visited him N1? Or is Transcend lying? Or was there no third scum kill?

On N2 we also had only 1 kill. The Vig shot went astray due to Mirhawk commuting. Chances are extremely small someone shot Varsoon on N1 and then shot Zach on N2 (or vice versa) thus the one I jailed was either the target or the shooter.

This points to Zach being the target or shooter, since we know now that Varsoon can't shoot and was town - but A50 said he jailed Dunn and Kraska respectively so this makes no sense. What have I misunderstood here?

On n3 we have 2 kills. Dunn claimed 2-shot, so unless he was bluffing twice that second kill wasn't from him. One of the deaths occurred on a (false) claimed Bomb/PGO (who would be so bald as to target a claimed bomb?? I fail to understand that one).

Dunn was bluffing, so the second kill was his

Well, yeah.. I'm confused and the chances of kraska flipping scum are much lower than 80% it looks. She could've been the target of the shot for all I know. I take back the "positive" case and would relegate it to a mere possibility.

Now Varsoon comes and says his not a BP and it might be that the N1 shot was on Zach still. However, Dunn saying he had a 2rd shot shoots down my theory bc evidently there would be no 3rd killing role to begin with.

[shannon]

So Zach is a live option as a potential strongman, as is Kraska? That explains the MD death, they'd have to know that a MD could clear them (or catch them) but a JK couldn't.

[shannon]

Is there a rule that prevents 2 mafia JKs from existing?

[shannon]

Five alive, lynch plus NK means we're in LYLO tomorrow. Please scum don't NK me I have never made it to 3P LYLO before! <3

[shannon]

@Shannon:

The N1 action on Varsoon most likely came from beeboy.

@Everyone:

With Transcend ending up dead it's unlikely we have a Ninja, bc why would a Ninja take out the motion detector?
However, it also points to the scum likely being one of the VT claims, bc both PRs already had a legit reason to have motion detected from them.

On the other hand, I have jailed all 3 of them and a NK still occured. If we assume a strongman then shannon should be clear (by virtue of Transcend result on her) and it's between Zach and kraska.

If there's no strongman involved then it's between me and implosion. Either way shannon is NOT the right lynch.

Both PRs have a legit reason to have motion detected, but in a WIFOMY sense that's what they'd want us to think, so I'm not prepared to rule out anyone except Implosion yet.

Thinking aloud, and can someone please reality test this:

Lynch either Kraska or Zach = 2 claimed PRs, a claimed VT, and me a confirmed townie.

JK protects doc protects me.

Overnight targets possible - JK, or VT. (or no nk)

D9 groups possible -

JK, doc, me, VT (if no nk - no lynch again, same chain of protection, rinse repeat until a NK or a give up)
Doc, me, one unconfimred townie (JK was NKed - it's the VT)
JK, me, VT (if JK didn't protect the doc from NK, it's gotta be the JK)

[shannon]

Wait! If there IS a strongman, how come we had 2 deaths only on N3??

Let me go check:

N1: Dunn was jailed, so Lapsa was the Mafia kill.
N2: Dunn didn't shoot (confirmation?) and Titus was the Mafia kill.
N3: Dunn shot Wake, Mafia shot podoboq
N4: Dunn shot beeboy. Did Mafia also shoot beeboy?
N5: Mafia shot Dunn, but Dunn shot nobody?
N6, N7: Dunn is no more, so Varsoon & Transcend are Mafia kills.

The thing is did Mafia & Dunn target the same person TWICE? (I'm assuming Dunn didn't shoot on N3, else it would be THRICE!).

We first need to decide on whether there IS a strongman here or not. We need to narrow it down to 2 lynch candidates bc that's all we have left: 2 lynches. Unless it's a scum duo and we ARE in LyLo already.

Well, my train of thought stops here. I'll wait for someone else to pick up from me.

I thought that mafia could, as a faction, only kill once per night, and the person(s) not doing the kill would be able to use their role powers elsewhere? So it'd make sense to have the strongman doing the kills, and the others jailkeeping or commuting or whatever?

[shannon]

So reasons for not having more than one kill include: Dunn didn't do anything, Dunn was JKed, the target was JKed, the target commuted, the target was doctored.

[shannon]

Does that mean my plan was actually good?!!

VOTE: Kraska

At least if you are dead you can't be mean to me. Sorry if you're town but yeah.

[shannon]

OK so it was a bad plan

If Zach is macho he can't be stopped anyway

[shannon]

Not macho, the other thing. gah

[shannon]

A50 jails implosion.

If A50 dies, it's Zach since I'm confirmed town by motion detector and by jailkeeper.
If implosion dies, it's A50 since he's meant to be jailing.
If I die, it's A50 or Zach and good luck Implosion!

If there's no death, we get a do-over tomorrow YAY

[shannon]

Thoughts aloud - don't do this stuff, do what's in 6178!

A50 jails me - implosion doctors zach

Possible outcomes:
I die = A50
Zach dies = implosion, or A50 is strongman (that's the role I was looking for)
Implosion dies = Zach or A50

A50 jails zach - implosion doctors me

Possible outcomes:

I die = implosion
Implosion dies = A50 or Zach is strongman
A50 dies = implosion or Zach is strongman
Zach dies = A50 or implosion is strongman

[shannon]

OK then town kraska, any insights that can help us (before my battery goes flat)

[shannon]

I've gotta know, kraska if you're town why tunnel me?

[shannon]

Sorry Implosion I didn't mean to break it for you I got a bit carried away

[shannon]

But why the remaining scum would target an announced jk target is beyond me...

This still confuses me^
Why would a scum zach do this?

Guess: Because if it hits, it's a good thing for scum, and if it misses, it looks like a no kill?

[shannon]

I can't believe this thread is still unlocked. Implosion, any thoughts?

[shannon]

Since strongman , whoever A50 goes on doesn't matter but to be on the safe side it should be either one of me or implo

But if implosion is jailkept he can't doctor anyone

[shannon]

A50 jail shannon tonight pls

Are you trying to save me here or prove something? Because I've already been jailkept *and* motion detected.

[shannon]

zach how can the last scum possibly be a strongman fypov. It can't be me because I'm role-confirmed. It can't be shannon because she had no motion on a night with a kill. It would have to be a50 and then your discussions are irrelevant and him being a strongman is much less relevant than you being a strongman. Like, post 6210 makes 0 sense.

Really as far as i'm concerned shannon is clear because she would literally HAVE to be a joat with shots of ninja & strongman and have used them perfectly. Just outside the realm of possibility.

The more I look at a50's claim and subsequent play the less it makes any sense whatsoever as scum. He doesn't strike me as the kind of player who would be audacious enough to say "lynch me then implosion" as scum today, or who would make the jailkeeper claim at the time he did to try to counterclaim Dunnstral. Zach strikes me as a player who is very definitely audacious enough to do the things that he's done (his selfvoting shenanigans, his callimg himself clear) as scum. They do 0 to convince me he's town.

Except I'm town tho and while I have definitely contributed to such a result happening, if you continue along this train of thought we are going to lose.

If you believe A50 and you yourself are clear and I am town, POE leaves shannon.

If shannon can't be scum to you then A50 has been lying. But as I have said before, I don't see the circumstances surrounding A50's claim scum-motivated at all. Thus I am left with shannon, A50 played a masterful scum game, or this game was loaded.

Option 1 is most likely in my eyes.

Zach I think you've backed yourself in to a bit of a corner here. It's not that I can't be scum 'to him', it's not based on a read of my play it's based on me having been JKed and MDed on nights that had kills.

[shannon]

Just saying you're town is not enough to prove that you're town. A50 and Implosion have both claimed roles, gone unchallenged, and given results that seem plausible. I've been cleared by a MD and by the JK, on nights when there were kills. You've only been cleared by the JK, so you could've dunnit if you're a strongman - or the JK could have done it and being lying the whole time. If you're town, then it's A50, and you ned to do something to try to show that.

[shannon]

If you're a ninja the motion detector problem is easy to get around.

You yourself doubt A50 and encourage me to so you can't really be " cleared " by a JK if you don't believe the JK is a JK, enough to try and persuade me into voting the JK when I think it's clear what the real answer is?


I think you are actually the one in the corner.

youre not getting it

If A50 is scum none of his clears on anyone mean anything.

But if a50 is town, the only option is you as strongman since
You were jailed twice and kills still happened. Whereas I have been both jailed and motion detectors
And kills still happened. I don't even know if there's a role that can possibly have those powers and still be normal. Get it?

[shannon]

Simpler: if a50 is town, you are scum. If a50
Is scum, well, he's scum!

[shannon]

Someone who is not dosed up on flu tablets, go back and look at A50s claimed results and whether he gave them after/before/congruent with others' results and whether there's evidence that he has been gaming the system.

[shannon]

^if implosion is jailed tonight and there are no kills it could be anyone deciding that no kill is a better play.

[shannon]

It doesn't make sense to me that the doc would be town, the nurse scum, and the backup nurse town

[shannon]

Hopefully we got it right today and it's Kraska

[shannon]

Nooooo! Avenge me, townies!

[shannon]

As soon as I was NKed I strongly suspected A50. I can't say I knew it was him, but I had a justified and true belief that it was him. Basically he was painted in to a corner with his fake result on me serving to clear me when taken in conjunction with the MD result. If Zach had been the NK, his only way to 'unconfirm' me would be to admit that he'd lied about his result on me. So from Scum A50's position, I had to be NKed for there to be any chance for him to win.

If Zach had been scum, I'd have expected him to take out Implosion, leaving A50 to choose between two people he'd 'cleared'. Implosion was conf town.

[shannon]

Well done A50, it took a lot of balls to pull that off.

[shannon]

Go for it podoboq <3

[shannon]

Wait there was a dead PT and no one invited me! Going to read it now

[shannon]

You just needed to listen to reason instead of going with feelings. How had A50 cleared everyone? He'd actually cleared no-one. Zach didn't want to believe this either, it's OK x